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thanks for the bump! i thought this thread had gotten eaten!

anyhoo, how's everyone doing? i took the last four weeks off because of moving, etc. now that it's september, i'm going to start again. luckily, i only gained about a pound during that month (i think i really ma learning healthier habits) but i'm disapointed because i wanted to hit my 10% by the time classes start. oh well.
hello lovely ww women! i've been a reluctant yet successful wwer myself. i started abut a year and a half ago, lost 45ish pounds, reached my goal last winter. i've found the process to be both awesome and stressful, easy and ridiculously frustrating. i guess it worked, yee haw. for the first time in my life, i am real happy with my body, shopping for clothes if a fun and not an excrutiating experience, etc, etc. on the other hand, i am a big foodie and ww, i'm concerned, and dieting, has ruined my relationship with food. i can veer to the obsessive side...even after maintaining my goal weight for nearly a year, i still get freaked out when i eat too much, even a little too much, and get too anal about counting points, watching everything that goes in to my mouth, depriving myelf. i worked so damn hard to lose the weight, i am still terrified of gaining it back. has anyone had any success in finding moderation post ww without sticking to a strict point counting or core lifestyle? in loosening up a little without gaining? it sounds like you have, for sure, lunasol!! any advice would be much appreciated smile.gif
hannah, sorry, i didn't see your post earlier.

anyways, not sure how much advice i can offer, but i hear you. for a long time i was an all-or-nothing dieter: as soon as i went off, i would really go off.

the biggest piece of advice i have is to focus on portion size more than anything else. everything in moderation!

i'm a foodie too, and in a way that actually helps. if i'm going to eat something with a lot of calories, i think to myself - is this worth it?

good luck!
lunasol, your advice fits in nicely with the ww newsletter article i just found in my inbox: "The Joys of Quality, Not Quantity."

which for some reason, inspired me to journal just now. after many months of dragging my heels and doing stupid shit like cutting out breakfast, skipping meals & not exercising regularly = another solid 5 lb gain. sad.gif

someone wanna grab by hand and help me back up on the bandwagon? wink.gif
anyone? anyone? bueller? bueller?

s'ok. i'll talk to myself then ... over here ... in the corner ...

mandi's junkfood tip o'the day: trader joe's chocolate chip cookies. 12 = 3 pts. nevermind that they're miniscule, they're superdelish and so very worth the points. i think i'm actually more stoked about being "allowed" to eat 12 cookies for only 3 pts!

except, um, i just popped 24. oh well. that was my dinner, i guess. rolleyes.gif

at least i earned 3 AP's earlier.
Well, after quitting for the summer out of frustration, I'm back on plan, too. I lost a little weight on my own, but I feel sorta driftless without a plan. I'm not going to go to meetings (the leader at the one most convenient for me is bad) but I've got my little points counter and AP counter, so I'm keeping track on my own for a few weeks and seeing how that goes.

Oh, Yay, I thought this thread was gone forever!

I'm still trucking along, more or less. I've gone through lots of mini-phases of being off plan, but still going to my weekly weigh ins. Right now I'm working on it, still, and journaling and all that good stuff.

I also recently bought the WW pedometer, and I really like it. I never did Activity Points before, because I always forgot to check the time before and after I went for walks. So if I did them, I was just guessing, and probably not very accurate. Now I wear it most days, and it does motivate me to walk around more.

Glad that some of you long-timers are back - I'll hold that hand of yours, Mando. I took last week off and am climbing back on today as well.
yay, glad to see i'm not alone in here!

thanks for the hand up, starbeattt! i admire your committment and your steady progress.

i'm just doing online too, sidecar. tho i promised myself that if i didn't see results, i'd head back and try a different meeting this time.

but i'm down 2.5 lbs! so it's all good! (and this with 3 days off-plan and a mojito happy hour that turned into a liquid dinner, too!)

IPB Image
I'm down to 176.5 from 180. I fell off plan in a major way today. guess there's always tomorrow.
OK -- ww online is not working for me, I keep feeling to guilty to go online. I am trying to do my own structure - but we shall see. I remember a long time ago car linked to a WW application for your palm (calculated points) - I think I have basically figured out the formula (about 1 pt per 50 calories, with big adjustments for fruits/fibers/refined sugars). I MUST stop snacking from the vending machines on candy. Oy.

side-edit, mando, starbeattt, congratulations on your losses and your stick-to-it-iveness. I aspire.
OK, I'm not doing WW but an online calorie-counting thing, so I tend to bust in to the conversation here...and I hate to derail the cool talk about healthy foods over in Becoming Healthy...especially when I just want to bitch a little about how I'm bored paying so much attention to everything I eat and I hate how hard it is to lose one pound when it's so easy to gain one. Bleh.

I have lost 7# since mid-September, and that is with a week with out-of-town guests where beignets and fried catfish were had by all, including me. At least I didn't go totally crazy when they were here...because now, pretty painlessly, I'm back to where I was before they arrived.

The visit also messed up my newfound gym-going, so I'll get back to that this week, too. I must say, that was really helping my mood. Gad...could I be PMSing a week before I'm due? That seems so early, but that's what it feels like.

Keep on trucking, WW Busties!

faith, i'll email car about the ww handheld program. i think dusty had it too.

amilita, which online calorie-county thingie are you doing?

i've been making a feeble attempt to buy healthier foodstuffs, but it's not easy, and i'm getting fed up (pun intended). the macadamia berry trail mix i just scarfed down has 10 g of sugar in 1/4 cu, and sulphur dioxide ... !!! i have a hard time dealing in the grocery store as it is (i LOATHE grocery shopping, even trader joe's) without reading every single ingredient. trader joe's isn't close enough to shop more than once or twice a month, whole foods is too pricey, so we're stuck with whatever "lesser evils" we can scrounge up at A&P and stop n'shop. i really can't stand having to think so much about what's in our food. i'm not a foodie, i'm nutrition-phobic ... that's why sometimes jenny craig and the other pre-packaged crap diet plans looks so appealing: no brain necessary.

i'm also eating way too much chicken. i'm not a huge chicken fan. i need to plan meals better.

danny's doing much better than i. he's lost 9 lbs in 4 weeks! then again, he's running around playing a trumpet in mud approx 10 - 13 hrs per week.

i'm fairly sure i gained back the 2.5 lbs, le blergh. i'm blaming it on PMS-and-period-from-hell. i face the music tomorrow.
Mando, I'm using It's kind of a pain at first, when you have to enter all the nutritional info. of the foods you eat, but once you get lots of your standbys entered, it's easy. They do have a database, but I still manage to find a lot that they don't have in there. It's $9 a month.

And I wanna say that I've lost 9# now! I know one shouldn't rely of weight loss itself for motivation, but it sure is effective. I do like feeling better and taking care of myself more...but those numbers do it for me, they just do. Still got a long way to go, so I gotta reach a little deeper, though. I think I want to lose a total of 65 or 70#...eep.

I had to look at pictures of myself last night and oh! So depressing. That may be motivational for some, but they just really get me down.

I've been having this lingering cough that gets worse at night and interrupts my sleep...I feel a little tired for the gym, but I know that it would perhaps help me sleep if I worked out. Maybe I'll give myself off 'til Sunday...but maybe do some yoga today. That sounds nice.

I've been wanting a bagel with cream cheese for a week and I finally had that when I woke up today. Yummy. I've really enjoyed making some kind of soup or stew each week lately...that's one of my favorite things.

Yay, sidecar! Sometimes I think those days off can help jump up your metabolism or something...if you can keep them isolated, and not turn into a week-long free for all, like I am wont to do.

Yay, danny! Activity is so key, eh? Good for him.

How's it going starbeatt and faith? And anyone else?
The link for the handheld thing is long gone because WW threatened the guy with a law suit.
Eh, it's not really going with me right now. I don't know what my problem is! I'll do really well for a month, and then just stop journaling, and gain it back. I think I've gained and lost the same four or five pounds over and over again for months now.

Actually, I do know what my problem is - it's hard work, keeping track of everything I eat, and I get sick of it and rebel. Does anyone else go through this? How do you cope with it?

On the bright side, now that I'm doing the monthly pass thing, I get to access all the recipes on the WW site, and I made this the other night, and it is AWESOME!

creamy chicken and potato salad
POINTS® Value | 8
Servings | 4
Preparation Time | 15 min
Cooking Time | 30 min
Level of Difficulty | Easy

8 small potato(es), quartered
2 slice cooked Canadian-style bacon, chopped
1/2 pound cooked boneless, skinless chicken breast, chopped
1/2 cup reduced-fat sour cream
4 Tbsp reduced-calorie mayonnaise
2 Tbsp mustard, seeded
1/4 cup chives, chopped

Preheat oven to 425ºF (220ºC). Lightly coat a nonstick baking sheet with cooking spray.
Place potatoes in a microwave safe dish, cover and cook on high power for 6 minutes. Dry potatoes and place on baking sheet. Lightly coat potatoes with cooking spray and bake for 20 minutes or until golden brown.
Gently toss potatoes, bacon, chicken, sour cream, mayonnaise, mustard and chives together. Combine until well-coated. Serve.

So my progress is impeded by the fact that I, um, well, am afraid to get on the scale, so I have no baseline. I am going to try to eat healthy for two days and then do it. I know it's lame, but I am seriously freaked out by my ballooning.

My shrink keeps suggesting exercise, but I am having such a hard time getting up in the morning. I shall be more resolved. Hang in there busties!
starbeattt, thanks for that yummy recipe! i just got my ww magazine yesterday, i'll peruse and share a recipe too. i lurve low-pt recipe-sharing! (even if i just read and don't actually, um, make it ... hee!)

faith, i found this link about handheld PDA calc info. i only skimmed, but i thought you might find something helpful.

and this may be a bit of reverse psychology, but when i'm afraid of the scale, i just force myself to get on it. that way, i won't be defeated before i begin (if i try to lose a few before weighing, and it's still a scary-high number). even if it's PMS week and i know i'm automatically heavier. also, this way i'm sure to score some kind of loss during the next week.

mandi: queen of the weight-loss headgame. heh.

i am doing dismally. i'm really at a complete loss how to kickstart my motivation. i do know that i'm tired of being sore and achey at the least little bit of physical exertion. i guess that alone should be reason enough to get my body moving regularly again.
*sigh* in the hopes this thread will sometime soon become more active, even tho i'm not really journaling (but i am recording my weight each weds) ... i bought yet another fitness tape: dance yourself thin. and i can't even keep up with the warm-ups! last night, i watched about half of it while doing 20 minutes on the cycle, thinking maybe i'd at least familiarize myself with some of the moves. but why do they have to go so frickin' fast? i'm intimidated before i even begin!

but if i can master even a handful of the steps, it might even make me more confident on the dance floor. cool.gif
I didn't stick to plan at all when I went on vacay, and then haven't been good since I got back. Yesterday, I ate toast, chicken sausage, pineapple, macaroni and cheese, potstickers, leftover deep-fried Chinese food, real soda, and cake, and I had a mojito. No wonder I woke up ill in the middle of the night.

So Martini and I had a talk today, because he's put some weight on, too, and we've decided to do WW together. He's a little squicked out by how there are no dudes on the Web site, but we both feel like we'll do better if we do something together. I'm back up to 179, so changes need to be made.

I hurt my ankle at the gym about seven weeks ago and reinjured it in Ireland. I'm going to get it checked out before I start using cardio machines again. Until it's looked at, I think I'll use my balance ball and the two DVDs I have for it (one is Pilates, the other is just random exercises and stretches) so I'm at least getting some exercise.

I don't want to feel this way anymore. And eating all that crap? It doesn't make me feel good. That's what I've learned during this most recent WW break.
sidecar, i went on vacation for two weeks and it hasn't been the same, either. all i've been eating is crap. i've put on six pounds, and my habits have totally changed.
i'm trying to get back in the habit... but its just like i keep letting myself off easy, and not sticking with anything. i haven't been tracking, because i'll track one day, then eat something i don't know how to figure the next day, and say to hell with it.
there is really no other answer but to go back to planning hardcore, and tracking hardcore. if i don't get myself out of this rut now, the holidays are going to be a major train wreck.

I did WW and everytime I'd go on vacation or there would be a holiday I'd abandon all points blink.gif . I too had a very hard time getting back into it.

"there is really no other answer but to go back to planning hardcore, and tracking hardcore"

This is the god's honest truth. You need to go back to hardcore planning and tracking. It's the only way to reset your mind. It's totally mental. This is the hardest part of WW. Not being able to do this was the reason behind every one of my WW failures, and there have been many.


STICK TO IT!!! smile.gif

So, day after Thanksgiving, where I didn't stuff myself like a piggie but didn't say no to anything, either...

Hey, does anyone else want to talk about weight loss in general in this thread, not necessarily resulting from WW?

I'm throwing out my big boobie minimizer bras today, and I'm really happy to see them banished from my life. They were starting to get to be too big on me and were getting to be so freakin' uncomfortable to boot.

So where's everyone else?
i tracked all week and lost 1.8!
go pink! *clapclapclap*

and yay raisin for throwing out the big boobie minimizers ... that's my dream! (actually, i'd just be thrilled to go down one cup size.)

i was -1 lb two weeks ago. but i got sick and everything went to hell last week. meh.

"Hey, does anyone else want to talk about weight loss in general in this thread, not necessarily resulting from WW?"

um, yes, please. especially since i'm not on-plan at all, really. but no dissing of ww or those of us addicted to processed crap, either.

keeding. wink.gif
sort of. unsure.gif
YEAH, PINK! Sometimes just writing down what you've eaten is enough to keep yourself in line. (not that I would know or anything from recent experience...)

Okay, good, let's talk. I'm not going to diss WW.

It's not quite processed food, but it is made by someone else: I resisted the VERY STRONG urge to go to one of the neighborhood burrito joints to have a burrito for dinner tonight. I started walking there and then I turned around. Seriously. Instead I came home and I'm forcing myself to eat soup that's on the stove right now. So I won't eat dinner until 9pm and it's going to be a measley bowl of soup, but at least I'm not filling my face with a crap burrito just because I'd rather focus on how bad my stomach would feel afterwards than how much I am totally dreading going back to work tomorrow.

And that's the truth, Ruth.

Also plan on weighing myself tomorrow morning. That's gonna be a shocker fer shur. To borrow a phrase from a Tori song, maybe it will shock me sane.

Mando, do you have a scale at home?
good for you, pink!

Yeah, I won't diss WW either. My problem with WW is that every time I do it, I do great for the first three weeks and then plateau for months on end despite following plan. The one pleasant result of this is I'm down 13 pounds from my all-time high and have stayed there for months over the course of three WW attempts in two years. I think WW is a great program, but it didn't work for me.

Anyway. I'm going back to healthy eating now. My new goal is to lose five pounds every two months until I lose 25 pounds. It's low-pressure, it gives me small manageable goals, and it gives me room for when I inevitably fuck up.

I haven't been able to exercise for a few weeks because of an old ankle injury, but I finally saw my doctor and am now cleared for some exercise (no more running or step class; boo!) as long as I take ibuprofen daily and wear an ace bandage. So this week I'll start exercising and hopefully I'll be down five pounds by Christmas.
raisin, you were asking if mando had a scale at home, and that made me think of something interesting. i used to have a working scale at home. i got on it every morning, and it motivated me and kept me in check. since then, the scale has stopped working. i replaced the battery, to no avail. so, i need another scale, and i think that if i get one, it would help me stay on track.

we are trying something new at home- switching grocery buying/meal planning weeks. thing is, my boyfriend doesn't get home til 8pm most nights, so i have to wait a long time between lunch and dinner. that is prime pig out time, so during those weeks i think i should make sure he buys me some snacks. on my week to cook, i have dinner ready at about 6, and i usually plan a dessert most nights, because that is my thing.

so far this week, i am doing ok. now i am going to e-track my points, thanks to you! xo
See, PM, that's interesting to hear, because I wonder if it would keep me in check or make me totally obsessive. Hmmmmmm. Something to think about.

Sidecar, that sounds really manageable.

Yeah, I did weigh myself. Not pretty, but not horrendous, either, given all the indulgences and activities I've been doing. At least I have a benchmark now. Maybe I will go buy a scale. I can't believe I'm saying this.
scales are tricky. whereas i was doing really good with only weighing myself once a week, all of a sudden i'm back to daily weigh-ins. which are completely defeating for me, because i go up and down quite drastically and inexplicably.

but i agree, it does keep me in check.
but it also depresses the helloutta me.
but i think i'm down 1 lb from last week, which is all the incentive i need.

i do aspire to a just go by inches lost and clothes fitting better philosophy, though. i just don't think i'm wired that way. i need to see kinder gentler numbers.

pink, we usually don't eat dinner until 7:30, just out of habit. i totally need a snack when i get home. lately i've been all about the skim decaf vanilla chai lattes - sweet-tooth-satisfying and filling.
I personally think scales are devised and circulated by the devil. But they are necessary evils. I only use them when I start off on a plan to lose weight. Maybe after a number of weeks have gone I'll step on one again.

After that, it's all measurements--head, neck, shoulders, upper arm circumference, bust, waist hips, thighs, calves, ankles. Not only are the numbers more impressive they're more encouraging.

Clothing fit is a little misleading though--unless we're talking about bras. I can sometimes wear jeans until they look like they're falling off to everyone except to me.
well, i ate a bunch of crap today. i went to a meeting afterwork where there were mini doughnuts, then to a craft show where there were gourmet treats. we haven't had dinner yet- its his week to cook, and he is currently re-organizing the laundry room at dinner time.
not that i will complain about him re-organizing the laundry room.
just that i know one of the reasons i ate so much today is because i didn't know when i'd have dinner/what it would be, and i didn't plan ahead at all.

i was reflecting about going to the craft show last year. i remember having such great will power that i didn't eat any of that stuff. i don't know where my will power has gone. i remember being very controlled until i went to spain. even at the airport- totally under control! ever since getting back, though, my self-control has gone all to hell. i don't know what it was that was so extreme that i have completely reverted, nutritionally.

i was trying to think of what made me motivated to have all that self control... it was essentially the reason why we want kids to behave at school... because it is The Right Thing to Do. it really baffles me that i was so good, but now so slacking at everything, food/weight wise.

and i absolutely want to lose weight. one of my fifth graders said i looked pregnant one of the pictures from spain. he got a talking to about commenting about women's bodies and being polite... but... it made me think. why couldn't that have been my a-ha moment, where i got back on track totally and changed my life forever?

i don't know.
anyone else having luck today?
Well, I've found that if I don't stick to a "diet" plan, it's usually because I need to eat whatever it is I'm reaching for, for some very real reason. But I'm one of those people who believe that every craving you have, every decision you make about food is founded in physiological realities that go beyond the oversimplified ideas of calorie intake and expenditure.

So, in other words, if you're reaching for sugary crap around dinner time cause you haven't eaten for several hours, you're not "failing" so much as your body is telling you your blood sugar is pretty low and you'd better eat something with simple carbohydrates in it asap or you will start to suffer the consequences.

Planning ahead is the big secret--even if it just means you carry little high protein, nutrient rich snacks with you in your bag all the time. Almonds or a small serving of other nuts, small amounts of cheese, some dried or fresh fruit, water--a well chosen protein bar (Octinoxate, I believe, posted information about organic, raw food Lara bars--very tasty, no soy, no crappy chemicals or MSG). Any of these will keep you from reaching for crap food like sugary donuts or muffins or cookies. I never crave that stuff if I've eaten the higher protein foods; and just having the snacks around makes me feel like I don't have to panic.

Why do people offer these things at meetings anyway? It would be so much better if they offered foods like cheese and fruit, or hors d'oeuvres instead.
ChaCha, I truly think your unsolicited advice would be better off in the Becoming Healthy thread; I do believe this thread is more for weight loss support (not necessarily coming from WW). Those of us recently posting in this thread intellectually know what to do to be healthy; there's a difference between the two threads, at least in my mind there is.

Pink, oh gosh, the pregnant comment? So sorry. And so you slipped up; tomorrow's another day. You just pick up and start again.

I took a muscle conditioning class yesterday morning and now this morning my ass hurts. Fun! It's probably a blessing in disguise I didn't have a ballet class last night. I'm taking today off from the gym.
Bullshit, Raisingirl. My posts are as unsolicited as yours.

Lots of people post in the same way I do, so if it's what I'm saying that bugs you, it's curious how you choose to express your disapproval so discriminatingly. If you can't stand my presence, be a grown up and use the ignore function.
cha cha, you have a good point. when i was pretty successful with weight loss, i always planned ahead. for example, i'd look in my planner and pinpoint the days when i'd have a rushed morning or late afternoon and plan portable foods/snacks accordingly. i do like the lara bars, as well as the cliff nectar bars.

last night my boyfriend didn't start making dinner til like, 9pm. that is entirely too late for me. and when he did make it, it was pan-fried chicken with gravy and stuffing. tasted good, just wasn't as healthy as i would have liked. we agreed to talk tommorrow night about how we can plan and cook meals in an equal but more successful way.

tonight, he is at work, and i am getting steamed veggies and chicken from the chinese place on the way home.
The steamed veggies sound delicious right now...I'm going to be cooking and eating late tonight, too!

Good luck with the weight loss and health goals, everybody. I'm happy to say I've got to buy new jeans cause I've dropped a dress size, and yes, I'm not going to step on the scale just yet.
Yikes!! Skirmish in the WW/weight loss thread. Unexpected, but to each her own.

I had an anxiety surge that finally subsided last night, so this morning I faced my fears and hopped onto the scale for the first time in a loooong time.

It was not pretty. I have never seen that number before and I never want to again, unless perhaps I should become pregnant with triplets and be a bodybuilder at the same time. Wearing weights on my ankles. Carrying dumbells.

The shock actually killed my appetite all day, because I was just thinking -- how could I do this to my poor body? It doesn't want all the junk I give it when I am stuck at my desk for 13 hours a day, eating chocolate because I am mad at working so hard.

So I am re-embracing the WW points system. Raisin, what other kinds of weight-loss programs are you interested in? My mother loved South Beach, and she made us both go to Pritikin retreat, which is very whole foods, low fat, low sodium, (no fun!) eating.

Chacha, I am definitely trying to connect my cravings to underlying physical issues, but for me, food as always been such an emotionally charged problem, rather than sustenance.

Today, I had fruit and almonds for breakfast, a Special K bar for snack (disgusting!!! So sweet!! NEver again) hard boiled eggs, fruit again and carrots for lunch, which I think is a bit too spartan even on a diet. I also am getting sick, which may effect my appetite too, and I only got three hours of sleep. So maybe it's not actually a diet, as much as a physical event. But still, it can kick off my WW regime. But now I am going out to dinner with my dad, so I feel like my bad appetite is really just a form of "banking" points. And I made myself walk to work, ah the little things.

How many points are in a Lara bar? They have them at the little store in my building.

Mando, I will check out that PDA thing STAT. Thank you very very much. You are awesome.
Faith, it sounds to me like you're already very well aware of the emotional issues attached to what you eat. The physiological stuff is a lot harder to know--just because not everyone is objective about what they eat (how can you be, when you're so pressed for time, or haven't got access to food when you want or need to eat?). Anyway, the emotional connection isn't necessarily unrelated to the physiological need, often they come from the exact same thing.

I'm not going to dismiss WW because I think, basically, it's a good concept--make people more aware of the food they consume, give them choice about what they eat, and provide the means for education and support--but I do have to say that there are some parts of the diet that are lacking and they do contribute to the physiological need factor. That can sabotage you. So can a big dependence on packaged food (yes, even theirs).

But it doesn't have to. One big way to make a difference on WW is to use the points plan for your food choices, but also incorporate nutrients they don't account for: sure, they go nuts for low fat, but you really should not have a diet that doesn't give you sufficient amounts of the really necessary fats, such as the Omega 3's and 6's.
It's a simple thing, and it hasn't (well, not to my knowledge as to the last time I checked out the Points program) any place in the points outlay, but I can't imagine that anyone would lose weight easily without at least these fats in the diet. I'd go even further and encourage you to eat a teaspoon of cocoanut oil every day, and to make sure you eat butter over margarine at any cost...cause that also really helps with weight loss. But you won't be able to "fit this in" with the points system. No matter. You can add these in and not count them and still lose weight. Plus it makes the whole diet more satisfying--keeping you from eating stuff you end up needing (cravings) and also keeping you from putting the weight on again once you've reached your goal.

The other thing: you've really got to eat the points you're alloted to effectively lose weight too. If you don't eat enough the points program doesn't work well and you won't lose weight. Frustrating, because it ends up making you feel like you're working really hard and getting no result.

The Lara bars--the organic, raw food bars I mentioned were a suggestion made by Octinoxate in one of the health threads. I'll look in the archive and see if I can't find it (these aren't the ordinary Lara bars; they were soy free, which is really important if you're trying to lose weight). I don't think it will be easy to find the number of points on them but the content breakdown is fairly simple--you might be able to work the point content out in one of WW's sites or booklets.
i cancelled my ww online subcription but i still get it! so i checked for y'all: the cocoa mole, banana cookie, cherry pie, and apple pie flavors come out to 4 points. ginger snap, cashew cookie, lemon bar, pecan pie are 5. they're all about 200ish calories...i guess being kinda high in fat is what makes them pointy. but as chacha points out, it's the healthy, good kind of fat smile.gif
I went back and looked in the archives and found that it wasn't the Lara Bar I remembered, but the Clif "Nectar" bars that Octinoxate and Sassygrrl both mentioned as being really delicious with great ingredients. I found a site that breaks down the ingredient amounts and gives you a "per flavour" nutrition label breakdown too.

Look here at the Clif bar site.

I've also read that the Clif bars are basically a copy of the Lara bars! But I know both companies make bars that contain gluten, soy, and sugars that cause a high glycemic impact. This particular Clif Nectar bar line, however, has none of those tetchy ingredients. They may actually contain fewer points than the others. They're available in the Whole Foods and Wild Oats markets, and judging by the prices on this site and other retailers' sites, they aren't very expensive at all.

Thanks, hannahmh, for checking out the point values.
Thanks so much you guys! I had a luna bar for breakfast, but I know it's weird and processed and not really tasty enough. But I bought a lara bar (handily - cherry pie) at the store downstairs so I am going to have that for breakfast tomorrow.

What I like about the point system is that despite how they tweak it, it's basically calories adjusted for healthier/whole food choices. I eat a lot of fruit and a fair amount of veggies, which are filling and not so pointy, so I feel like then I can have little indulgences without betraying a complicated plan that purports to change your whole body chemistry. Not that I don't respect those plans, but I can't ever contemplate giving things up, and I have a few precious disgusting food attachments (diet coke anyone?) and just thinking about having to go without makes me cranky. For example today I ate some watermelon (it was all I wanted at ABP, I think I am getting sick) and some soy pretzels (why is soy bad if you're dieting cha cha? I always thought it was handy protein, although I know it's not good for migraines) and then some almond brittle. Lots of sugar and ridiculousness in the almond brittle, but I had room for it. That's just my personality.

Having not been on it in a while, I don't really know my precise point range, so that's unfortunate. I am just guestimating, on the low side, knowing that as I guestimate my points (around 50 calories per point, if I recall, not adjusting for fiber and water content and stuff) I am probably going over due to portion size, downward adjustments, etc.

I need to do more activity though. Raisin, where did you take a muscle conditioning class? I have a pilates cd and book at home (portable pilates, it's good) that is effctive if you know the pilates basics already, but I can't even make it through the tape. I feel like I got beat up afterwards.

Pinkmartyr, I neglected to say before that I am sorry you had a bad experience with the photo. I myself photograph TERRIBLY (not just my body, but also my face) and I choose to believe I am not actually that trollish in person, but it makes me HATE to see photos of myself. To have someone say something unkind is even worse.

Hi Hannah! Nice to meet you.

Now whenever I am on a diet without a major binge for like two days I want to weigh myself. I will be disciplined though and wait. Good luck everyone!
it always seemed to me that if you follow your points, but use them for the more nutritious foods, you'd lose more. for example, grilled salmon instead of pre-packaged breaded fish, for example, and whole grains over whites. fruit for dessert instead of ice cream, etc. i wish i could eat like that. i wish i could eat healthy foods only, and save the sweets for occasions that are really special not everyday ones- birthday parties and holidays, for example. it would be great to have the self control to do that.

for me, food is really linked to celebration and consolation. i want to celebrate the end of the work week with an indulgent dinner, or i want to eat a blizzard because i've had a bad day at work and such. one thing that has taken care of the friday night over eating is the fact that i now weigh in on saturday mornings. mostly my problem is sugar and fats from sweets. i am not tempted to go out and get fried foods or macaroni and cheese or anything. but i do want truffles, gelato, cake...

cha cha, what it seems you are saying is that people who are trying to lose often go for low-fat, but they forget to include the important omegas that are helpful fats. you mentioned coconut oil and salmon... it seems that nuts might fall into that category, maybe avocados? would you ultimately recommend eating those foods, or taking a supplement?

ps- congrats on dropping a size!

Thanks, Pinkmartyr! I definitely have more to do and I'm hoping I'll need to buy another size down by Xmas.

I would always recommend eating the actual food sources over taking a supplement. Any day.
For me, it isn't the fat in a meal that is problematic (unless those fats are trans fats, then they cause problems). What's more problematic for me is actually the sugar content in foods, especially the refined sugar content.

I try to choose really good quality whole foods whenever I can, limit refined starches and sugars especially, and I really don't worry at all about the fats (you would freak out if I told you how much fat is in my diet--from avocado, butter, whole milk, cream, meats and fish, eggs--all the supposed "baddies" that really make a difference for me). But I can be a total sucker for the "convenience" of sugary foods--after all, sugar is a great preservative, so you'll always find it in ready-to-eat foods. I have to make sure I have food with me if I get hungry or I will reach for the nearest crappy food just because I need to eat something.

Anyway, supplementation has to become part of the diet because of the limited intake of food--there's no easy way to get the kind of omega 6's you'd get from something like oil of evening primrose from food; and you can't eat enough ground flax seed or salmon or herring in a diet to give you the amount you'd get from supplements when you are limiting portions. You want--and need the variety of foods that the diet allows, so you have to vary your foods to do well nutritionally.

Because you're limiting a lot of foods, though, it is a good idea to supplement, with things like B vitamins (B12 methylcobalamin sublingual lozenges or strips make a huge difference when you're trying to lose weight, so does folic acid, niacin, inositol, choline, and the lipotropic factor B's which help you to metabolize fats more effectively). There is another supplement to consider that really does help with fat metabolism and weight loss, called CLA or conjugated linoleic acid. Again, CLA is fat, pure and simple--and I don't know how you'd factor that in as "points". But it does help a great deal for many people. So: use it if you like, and don't worry about counting it as a substance with points.

One thing I would suggest if you want to use that celebratory aspect of eating and still do well is to "save up" points by staying near the low end of your point "spread" (or adding an extra 15 minutes to your exercise routine each day) until you've banked enough to treat yourself to a dessert. Then, don't just settle for any dessert--get one that is made by a pastry chef who uses the best ingredients for his/her creations. Use it as a reward, which you really want; and then only accept the best possible reward you can get. Alternately, consider having desserts consisting of nuts, really great cheeses, and fresh fruit, accompanied by a small serving of lovely ice wine or a favourite liquer instead of a pastry. This makes the whole thing an event rather than something you end up feeling is a weakness, or something you feel bad about. You're absolutely right: the whole foods, real foods make a huge difference as to how well you do on this diet, as well as how good you feel about the food you're eating. If I have to say a bad thing about WW, it's that so many people end up doing the points thing with drive-thru food, pre-packaged WW processed "pseudo" foods (that are filled with so many things that guarantee no weight loss), and bad chain restaurant food. I get that "points" are all about choice, but sometimes it really does pay to remind people they have other choices available to them!

Okay, the soy thing: soy is ultimately gointrogenic, unless it is fermented--like tofu, or miso, or tamari. Goitrogenic means that it will cause underfunction of the thyroid gland ("goitrogenic" means it can cause the formation of goitre in the thyroid gland). The thyroid gland plays a big role in your metabolic rate--if it underfunctions you will not lose weight no matter what you do or don't eat.

On top of that, soy is a genetically modified food (unless it states specifically that the soy is non-GMO and organic). Soy protein isolates, hydrolyzed soy proteins, "textured vegetable protein" made from soy--all of these are processed foods which can actually keep you from absorbing nutrients from the foods in your diet (creating deficiency, and hence, further weight gain). Unless you're eating a fermented soy--like miso soup, or real organic non-GMO tofu in limited quantities, you're eating a food which will hinder your efforts rather than help them.
Congrats chacha! Pinkmartyr, can you get a box of truffels and eat one a day without breaking your point range? Maybe the smaller sized ones (whole foods rather than godiva, or ones you can cut in half). That way you could celebrate a bit each day, and maybe fend off bigger splurges? Just a thought.

My WL sin -- I had two helpings of a cheesy egg quiche this morning, and a bagel with cream cheese and lox for lunch. I cannot even estimate the pointiness of that. But I am having fruit and some protein pretzels for dinner (not really on purpose but all I have at my desk, where I am stuck stuck stuck).

Are there any tricks to figuring out your daily point allotment, without going through WW? If I want to lose thirty pounds (even if I really need to lose more...) does anyone have a sense of how many points I get, or is it all tied to your current size? I hate that crap. Grr.

Faith, your points correlate to your current weight. For example, if I weighed 200 pounds, I'd get about 30 points a day. As I lost weight, my points would decrease as well. There's a guide in the front of their cookbook that gives points to weight ratio, but unfortunately, I loaned mine out to someone.
Wouldn't points-to-size make sense even if you only wanted to lose a specific number of pounds too? You just use the point allotment until you achieve the weight you want, and opt out of scaling down the points in order to keep your weight stable. Here's an online WW points calculator to use to find the point values for individual foods; on this WW site, you can fill out the personal assessment form to find out how many points you'd be alloted for your size. (If you don't want to keep receiving emails from WW, which I suspect they'd repeatedly send, try using a 10-minute-email account so you get your reply--which you can copy onto a permanent file--and then leave the address to self-destruct).

I don't think it would work quite so well if you used a smaller number of points for your size--that seems to make the weight loss take longer.
Less than 150 pounds = 20 pts per day
150 - 174 pounds = 22
175 - 199 pounds = 24
200 - 224 pounds = 26
225 - 249 pounds = 28
250 - 274 pounds = 30
275 - 299 pounds = 31
300 - 324 pounds = 32
325 - 349 pounds = 33
More than 350 pounds = 34

on the flex plan, you get an extra 35 pts per week.

i'm a lifetime & an online member, so any questions, i'm happy to answer for you. and you can opt out of their emails anytime. altho their weekly newsletters have some great tips.

i'm down another 2 lbs. yeah, i'm on the stress diet currently. unsure.gif
And according to that chart, is a point still vaguely about 50 calories or so of your overall daily food intake? With 5 additional "flex" points per day?

Just curious. Good for you and the lost 2 lbs, and the stress will pass soon I hope.
Hi everyone!

I went to a few ww meeting last winter and I loved the once a week weigh in, as I can get obsessive and crazy about weighing myself and have no problem with the program. The leader lady and the people at the meetings were just a bit too obsessive about the food and the points and it just seemed to be a bit too nutty and I didn't feel like staying at the meetings.

I think I just need some structure in my eating and WW seemed to give me that before. I just don't want to feel crazy like some of the point obsessed people I have known on it.

I hope I don't seem rude coming in here and saying this, this just has been what I remember from WW. There was the structure and that was good, but the point nazis scared me.
princess_dander: i hear ya! i was very successful losing a bunch of weight on ww (online). it spiralled into a bit of an obsession, and here i am with a diagnossed eating disorder. trying to recover and figure out how to maintain my weight without counting measuring everything i eat. whew. not to blame ww at all, the program certainly works. and a lot of my issues with food and eating and body image were totally there from the get go! but there is certainly a very real danger about letting the program become all consuming. my advice to take or leave: choose the party that work for you in your quest to lose weight--maybe journalling what you eat, weighing yourself weekly, or whatnot. but try to take it all with a grain of salt and be kind to your body. you don't want to end up where i did smile.gif

that said, good luck!
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