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thanks so much for the reading suggestions. i am armed with a Borders coupon and heading there on my lunch break today. i read What to Expect Before... and found it an easy reference. at the library yesterday i picked up Our Bodies, Ourselves - Pregnancy&Birth and so far what i've read is really pushing (no pun intended) for natural birth. i'm not there yet so it's a little overwhelming.

is anyone here planning a natural birth? a doula and/or midwife? please forgive me if i didn't read back far enough to find an answer. i have one friend who did a water birth and she's an emergency room doctor in Brooklyn who spent a few years in Kenya in the Peace Corps. she's mentally and physically a million times tougher than I am!

aphelendra, as much as i want to raise a baby as neutrally gender specific as possible, i can't wait to know either! and can't wait for you to share your news with us! friends of ours found out before birth, but had their doctor write down the results of the ultrasound and put the paper in an envelope. they went out to their favorite restaurant and opened the envelope then. they said it made for a more private and "drum roll" moment. anyway, they had a girl and she's a sweetie.

Congratulations Nickclick!!!!! I didn't read What to Expect When You're Expecting, but I do have The Whole Pregnancy Handbook (Joel Evans,MD), and I think it's full of good info (it integrates conventional and alternative medicine). I know Amazon has it. Have fun book shopping!
nickclick, my feelings on natural birth are mixed. My mother is a huge proponent of natural birth and had all three of us with absolutely no meds or panikillers (although she birthed in a hospital). I think I'd like to do that, but ultimately it's up to the woman. Some women have relatively easy, short labors, so to go natural makes sense for them. Not all women are so lucky, and it doesn't do the woman or baby any good to suffer through a long, agonizing labor just to say, "I went natural." So I think I'll have to see how it is.

I definitely want to experience labor pains as crazy as that sounds. One of my coworkers was induced and given an epidural immediately, and she said she feels like she missed out on some experience because of that. Of course for some women that would be a dream labor! Ultimately, it's up to the woman, I think.

I am a believer (for me) for giving birth in a hospital, I have to say. Not that I don't think home birth is an amazing thing. But I'm too scared to do it. I know too many women who have had labors go awry after birthing naturally for hours and hours, and they had to have a C-section, episiotomy, etc. and were grateful they were in a hospital. I admit I used to have a more Earth Mother birth is so natural view until I became pregnant and had friends give birth. While I still believe pregnancy and birth ARE natural and shouldn't be treated as a sickness (of course!), the hard truth is that prior to modern medicine, women and babies died in childbirth all the time.

So while I think it's great to embrace as much of the natural side of things as possible, I also think it's smart to acknowledge that we've made some advances and it's okay to take advantage of those if it fits US. There can't be a one size fits all approach to birthing and labor. Insisting a woman go all natural or birth at home is like the 50s when the doctors insisted all women be knocked out during birth! (Like Betty Draper!!!)

Woo! Just wrote a book... :-)

Had a crazy dream last night that Elliott was an infant but could talk, and he told me I was "underqualified" for the job. I think this came from watching Stewie Griffin on Family Guy prior to going to bed. In the dream I had to debate with him about why I would be a good mother. I woke up laughing.

He is so active these days, and I just love it. I really can't wait to meet him!
For me that what to expect book and the girlfriend's book were both nightmares. Way to focus on EVERY little thing that could possible ever go wrong, sheesh. Made me paranoid, I tossed them both.
I read Ina May Gaskens Spiritual Midwifery which was wonderful. It's admittedly a little dated having been written in the hard and heavy hippie era, some of the dialogue is so clique, ha! But it's the story of how a midwifery community came to be, how they dealt with a variety of births (good, bad, effortless, scary, deadly), what they learned, how they changed their minds about this and that, how they dealt with the medical community (have to say it was way more midwife friendly than later years). All in all it was such a positive read, very enlightening too. Lots of info on the physical aspect etc.

For me natural childbirth wasn't a choice, it just was the only way. I think the best thing for any mama is to be where she's comfortable 'cause being fearful or uncomfortable in any way is gonna stress out the body and hold things up. You physically cannot give birth if you're scared or freaked out, your body goes into fight or flight survival mode and delays it all until you feel safe again. And so there you are, if you have fears, deep ones about being at home, then it's not the place for you. I have deep fears about hospitals and doctors and drugs so they are not for me.

The thing about being in labour is that all those contractions get the baby ready to breathe so they are really neccessary. A high percentage of planned c-section babies or mamas who have the epi end up with respiratory issues. It's a small price to pay for a few hours for a healthy baby IMO. Of course, if it gets unbearably painful for long stretches of time I can see having some medication but I just wouldn't do it myself unless I absolutely couldn't stand not to. Once it's over it's over and all in the past. Holding that new baby is the best painkiller going.
Pepper - That sounds like an excellent read. . . .

Nick - I struggled, and am still struggling, with my decisions regarding my birth. I definitely have decided on a hospital birth attended by a doctor, not a midwife. We've both had a few family members fall under the category of "wouldn't be here without medical intervention".

Obviously, complications are relatively rare. But like Pepper said, I now know I won't be comfortable at home, especially since the nearest hospital to me is not one I would want to have to be take to in an emergency (the type with dirty floors and flickering florescent lighting. Gak!)

So for me, the challenge is going to be in trying to find a balance between a "natural" and a medical birth. I am hoping to go epidural free, and am doing what I can to prepare for it. I'm not sure about using a doula yet, because I'm hoping for my main labor support to be Mr. But the class I'm planning on taking is taught by doulas, so if I find one I love . . . .

An interesting thing I found out . . . . for a long time, popular knowledge in the birthing community was that epidurals slow labor and descent of the baby. My doc shared with me a study done by Northwestern Memorial Hospital that suggested exactly the opposite. This same hospital gives epidurals to 90% of their patients and still manages to have one of the lowest c-sec rate in the country. So if my labor stalls, I'm happy to accept the epi. After the recovery from my lap procedure, I am hoping to avoid any sort of abdominal incisions for as many many many years as I can . . . . I think one of my biggest fears is a c-section . . . .

I think another important thing to keep in mind is the risk of needing an emergency c-section of the variety where baby has to be taken out immediately. If no epidural is in place, general anesthesia may be needed, and that has some risk attached to it. For some, this risk is acceptable but not so for others. I myself haven't really decided yet . . . .

I'm a bit of a worrier, if you can tell . . . .

I guess part of that ramble was for your benefit Nick, and part of it was to get some yucky stuff off my chest, har har.

Anyways, always keep in mind it doesn't matter how baby gets here, just that he/she does and babe and mom are safe and healthy. Do lots of research and ask lots of questions to whatever practitioner you choose, eventually, you'll be able to formulate an approach (I say approach, not plan, because "plans" often don't work out!) that feels comfy to you.

Let us know what book you ended up going with!

Zelda - so glad to hear Elliot is moving around a lot, that must be an extraordinary feeling. I think I might have felt a few wiggles here or there, but nothing definitive yet.

Anyways, I was wondering if you could feel anything from the exterior of the belly yet? Mr. A is wondering when he might possibly be able to feel the buggo moving . . . .
Reading back I want to clarify that I mean having an epi before the duration of any major contractions, I'm pretty sure a few hours of internal baby massage to get those lungs working is just as good as going all the way. I meant to say that having an epi before any contractions, or before too many is what can result in breathing difficulties in the baby.

One thing I can tell you, whether you have a hospital or homebirth, doctor delivery, midwife or daddy on the way to the hosp a great thing to do is to have a birth plan written out that all parties are familiar with. This way no one can say later on, "Oh, you didn't want the eye drops, episiotomy, injections, student doctors watching, etc etc." After is too late to make your desires known and do NOT assume that anyone cares about them as much as you and your partner do. Make sure you get what you want out of this experience, within reason of course. No matter what happens, so long as you feel that your needs were respected and met as much as possible you'll come out of it feeling OK. And yes, a healthy baby and mama at the end is worth whatever happens even if it wasn't exactly what you had in mind. Be flexible, mind body and soul.
Super fast more later...but to answer your question aphelendra, I am at 26 weeks and Mr. Z just now started to be able to feel the baby on the outside and see my belly move. My BFF felt it on the outside around 24 weeks, but her hand happened to be in the right place for a POWERFUL kick...more powerful than usual.

As for feeling movement myself, for a few days I doubted myself ("Is it gas? Was that it?")...then it was like he was moving like crazy and I had always been feeling him move! Overnight, practically. :-) This was around 19 weeks or so.
ok extra quick note.. Negative blood test and i'm now at 17dpo. What does this mean? Do i just keep waiting and testing? This makes no sense to me! I read that you can confirm pregnancy if you exceed 18 dpo with high temps... So confused! sad.gif
ok extra quick note.. Negative blood test and i'm now at 17dpo. What does this mean? Do i just keep waiting and testing? This makes no sense to me! I read that you can confirm pregnancy if you exceed 18 dpo with high temps... So confused! sad.gif
Congrats to all the pregnant mamas! Just dropping in from Mamaville to put my $0.02 into the birth discussion, in case you're interested....

Books: In preparation for birth I read The Birth Book by Dr. Sears and found it to be REALLY helpful. It definitely encourages women to consider an unmedicated birth but the emphasis of the book is really on helping you have a positive birth experience no matter what route you decide to take (or have to take), and it includes stories from women across the spectrum, everything from an unmedicated birth at home to a c-section in the hospital. They also reinforced a lot of the stuff I learned in my unmedicated childbirth class about breathing techniques, comfort measures, etc. I'm a fan (as you can tell).

I actually wasn't a big fan of the The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding before I had Henry because I felt like a) it spent way more time than necessary talking about why "breast is best" [I was like, hello, I bought your book, I'm already sold on breastfeeding] and cool.gif it felt like it was not very supportive of women who chose to go back to work or who otherwise were not going to be breastfeeding on demand for a year. And when I was having breastfeeding challenges I think I projected some of my challenges onto the book (like, "great, I'm doing it all WRONG, thanks a lot for making me feel worse") but now that we're on track I find it a handy reference book.

Personal Experience: As I shared with folks here, I had Henry in a hospital with an OB/GYN and without medication, and honestly it was an amazing experience. (I'll spare everyone the repeat story...but I love talking about his birth so I'll gladly share with anyone who is interested.) I recently had a little reunion with some of the other women from my unmedicated childbirth class - in fact, we went to share some of our stories with the current class - and it was fascinating to me what different experiences we all had. One other mom had also gone natural and had a good experience but a faster labor than me, another had to be induced and ended up getting an epidural (because her labor dragged on for over 24 hours), and another had a really stressful experience where she was at one centimeter for 7 HOURS, finally got talked into an epidural to help things move along, dilated to 4 and stayed there for 6 HOURS, then had to get an episiotomy before finally delivering. Her take was that she really wished she'd learned more about the birth management options before the birth so that she could feel better about the decisions...her big regret was that she really kind of felt bullied into some of the decisions and the OB who was on call with her (not her regular OB) really talked down to her and her husband. She felt that if she'd picked her doc more carefully (including the on-call situation) and was better informed about everything from epidurals to c-sections, she would have felt better about letting go of her plans to have an unmedicated birth.

Sorry, that was a book! Good to see this thread so active. yumyum, I can't believe how close you're getting, you must be so excited. zelda, it feels like just yesterday you got that positive test...enjoy kicky time with Ponyo! Michelina, Fookie, Cristine, funnybird, all the other TTC Busties, I am thinking positive thoughts for you!
I just had my first Midwife's appt. today - sort of deciding whether I was going to use one again as I did with my son - my big thing was: I'm not sure I can do unmedicated again. I thought midwives were not able to assist at births where epidurals are used. Anyway, she cleared that up. I liked her because I worried it's a sort of sacrilege to say 'I might not be able to go "natural"again' with a midwife and she just put me at my ease.

For my son, my unmedicated childbirth was not the empowering experience I had hoped for. "Transition" was terrifying. I was in so much pain that I couldn't be aware of who was around me or what they were doing, and I felt completely alone. It was pure torment. And it 'only' lasted for two hours. Despite that, I'm still on the fence! My son was born healthy and well, I hate that slippery slope of the epidural, then the pitocin, then the catheter, you know? I wish there was something in the middle. A sort of semi-epi.

Anyway, motherhood has cured my of all (well, most) judgement. Whatever you have to do to give birth to a healthy baby, that keeps you feeling safe and sane. Do it. Also, every experience is unique, every mother feels things differently. Transition was hardest for me, but pushing was a piece of piss. I've heard other people say that pushing was hardest for them. Some people just have an "intense" experience. Some people have incredible pain. And different labours for the same woman can take different paths.

I dunno. It sucks that there's no way to predict.
Wish I had more time to read thoroughly and to write more, but I have the opportunity to get some really good sleep right now if I jump on it, so I'm going to. But must jump in momentarily.

Welcome to all the new people in this thread!

Just wanted to say that I tried to have a home birth and after 20+ hours of hard labor we had to change course and go to the hospital where I got a c-section. I don't recall ever really feeling fearful and I was truly prepared to continue, but after pushing for 2 hours, my cervix began to swell and my 9lb baby and her very large head would not come out. The midwife said the baby was having irregular heartbeats so that decided it. As some of the women on this board will recall, I grieved over it mightily afterwards. I had put so much into it to still end up in the hospital. Eventually I put it all in proper perspective and recognized that I had the most amazingly happy and healthy baby and that it didn't matter how she got here.

In retrospect, I would have done two things differently. I would have chosen a birthing center over birthing at home (for various reasons it might have made things easier both during birth and when I came home), and I would have asked my midwife not to delegate so much to her apprentice. Hard to say if it would have changed anything, but it's possible.

I don't plan to have another child, but not because I don't want to. It's because I'm 43 and by the time I would be able to plan it I would be 45 and I am afraid of the risk. But if I were in a position to have another child, the second time I would try for VBAC and I would have an epidural. Even if I did have to have another c-section, I would try to labor for as long as I could first because as I understand it, all the contractions helped my daughter with clearing her lungs and receiving necessary stress hormones to help her once she entered the world.

If my labor had ended after the first 12 hours or so, I would have forgotten the worst of it and recommended the experience to anyone. The pain was intense, but so much so that it sent me into a sort of forgetful trance state, so it was almost a natural twilight drug. But when the extreme fatigue and dehydration set in (I couldn't keep anything down) I felt the birth I'd imagined slipping from my grasp, and it was very hard emotionally.

I think deciding whether to go drug-free is a very personal one and that there are pros and cons to both. I'm more rabidly pro breast feeding than I am pro natural childbirth and will argue its merits all day. But as much as I worried that the drugs would hurt my wee baby, we had no choice but to have them, and she still came out bright eyed and rosy cheeked.

Delibelly is right that everyone's journey is different. And in all likelihood, no one's is exactly how they envisioned it during the nine months of preparing.

Still following this thread despite never having much time to comment. Good luck to all TTC and with the pregnancies!
Laurenzorro, did you have the blood test at the doctorís? Did they have anything to say about it being negative? As far as I know, the only thing other than pregnancy that can cause 18 days of high temps is an ovarian cyst. If your temperature is still raised tomorrow Iíd definitely give them a call.

Iím sorry this is happening to you. I went through pretty much the same thing last year and the suspense and uncertainty sucks. Iím thinking of you.
Yeah at the doctors. She was pretty vague and basically told me to wait it out if the bloods were negative so i haven't been back. I'll do another test on sunday and just try to chill out in the meantime since there's not really a whole lot i can do. I guess if there is still no result by next week i'll go back and look at other possibilities. Ah! The wait continues!
Lauren, I'm sorry you're going through this agonizing wait. I have heard of very rare instances where blood tests are wrong, but usually they are right. (I am hoping your test is wrong since I know you want to be PG so badly!)

It could be a very off cycle...where you stressed out or traveling around the time of ovulation? Remember stress cannot delay a period, but it CAN delay ovulation which then triggers a seemingly late period (although your luteal phase stays the same).

Thinking of you...please keep us updated.
Wonder if your doc ordered a qualitative or quantitative blood test, Lauren...
Yeah, i was wondering that too zelda. When i was given the results it sounded very final which kind of made me angrier! My ovulation was probably the clearest it's been this month, my temps don't often match up with the rest but there was a definate temp shift... The only possibility is that it was earlier which doesn't help the situation. I'm becoming more anxious as time passes, i had a dream that i had a miscarriage last night which was quite traumatic and disturbing. I'm also having a lot of trouble dealing with the emotional swings every day too. Answers soon please!
Lauren, how was your temperature this morning? Do you have any other symptoms?

Can I just have a little rant here? I need to get something off my chest. I have a friend who is 7 months pregnant with her second, a girl. When her son was born two years ago my SiL (who is also her friend) was annoyed because she (the friend) gave the baby my SiLís favourite name, which sheíd been hoping to use for her own child. This was before SiL was pregnant herself, but she was still talking about it recently when she found out she was having a boy so was obviously still irritated. Well, I saw on facebook this morning the friend is planning to call the girl MY favourite girlís name! Now I know how SiL felt! I know Iím being completely irrational, seeing as Iím not even pregnant (and slowly losing hope that I will ever be), and it was probably me that gave her the idea in the first place by talking about how much I like the name. But still, it makes me sigh. I worry that all the names I like will have been used by our friends by the time we get the chance, if we ever do.

Michelina and Cristine, how are you both doing? Are you TWW-ing?
Lauren, the fact that you had strange symptoms and no period now is very strange. And blood tests are highly accurate so it seems unlikely that you are pregnant. I definitely think you should go back to your doc if you still haven't gotten your period within the next couple of days. Sorry that you are going through this. Thinking of you...

Funnybird, I would be irritated too! Mr M and I haven't shared any of our favorites, and I am glad we haven't when I hear stories like this.

Thanks for all of the positive energy from the Busties! My 2ww is now over with a negative test. I saw my doctor yesterday and she made the referral for the Calgary clinic. I am so scared and so excited. Our journey will likely begin this summer. In the interim, we may do some more unmedicated IUI's just so that we are doing "something" while we wait. But my doc doesn't want to see me pour a bunch of money and energy into meds with Mr. M's numbers the way they are. I completely agree. And the wait to begin IVF begins! I will need a lot of positive energy.

I am dreading telling my work. My manager has been fantastic, but some of the people in my department are not supportive of IVF. And we are already short staffed. But this is my life and my chance. Work is not my priority anymore. Must keep reminding myself about that.

((lauren))) keep us updated of course.

~~~~~more positive vibes for Michelina ~~~~~~ i don't think i would be able to wait around either without doing SOMETHING.

funny, ugh. that's rude AND uncreative. i never shared that i wanted to name a girl after my grandma Charlotte, and my cousin had a girl last summer and named her after her grandma (Stella). different grandmas but even if i do i will seem like a biter to our family.

but i do have to admit that mr.nick and i both like Elliott for a boy......
Congratulations nickclick! I had a feeling...

funny, I'm at 7 dpo & don't know what to feel anymore. I don't get hopeful anymore, I'm always looking ahead to the next month asking myself if we can do this again. Sorry about the name thing, we intentionally keep all our names secret since EVERYONE else is having kids and apparently we can't.

Michelina, sorry to hear the news this month but very excited about your upcoming IVF... regardless of what anyone at your work or elsewhere may think! wink.gif
QUOTE(julie124 @ Feb 23 2010, 09:01 PM) *
she really wished she'd learned more about the birth management options before the birth so that she could feel better about the decisions...her big regret was that she really kind of felt bullied into some of the decisions and the OB who was on call with her (not her regular OB) really talked down to her and her husband. She felt that if she'd picked her doc more carefully (including the on-call situation) and was better informed about everything from epidurals to c-sections, she would have felt better about letting go of her plans to have an unmedicated birth.

I know too many women who ended up feeling bullied and choiceless because they didn't know enough about their options. And not just with a hospital birth either, one gf had a nightmare experience with a midwife! It's so important to be in the know about proceedures, you nearly have to become an expert yourself to navigate the system these days, be it with a doc or a midwife. I do believe that you can still get your best possible scenario out of it but it's hard to advocate for yourself and deal with opposition or friction while you're in the middle of giving birth! A good birthing partner is invaluable.

delibelly, sometimes second births are easier but then again, you just never know how it's gonna go, you've got to be mentally prepared to repeat that intense experience if that's the way you want to go. It's great that your midwife is open to discussing options with you.
My second was faster but more intense, like the experience was just doubled up into a smaller space of time KWIM? Still managable but STRONG! She was a bit bigger too.

eyelet, a friend laboured for so many hours on end until she ended in emerg c-section for her baby boy who was TEN-FOUR!!! I'm amazed that she lasted as long as she did, that baby was never coming out the natural way. But then my littlest sister had a fairly short and easy delivery of her boy who was way over 9 lbs and her first too so you are totally right, you just never know. There is no predicting and you have to be ready for anything, it's so true.

funnybird, that would royally piss me off. I mean, really, that's the height of inconsiderate if it was done purposefully. But maybe it's for the best, the name may not have suited another child. Once a friend told me a funny story about naming her boy River but feeling weird about calling him that for weeks and weeks until she had a dream that changed everything. In the dream "River" was talking to her and saying "Mom, why do you keep calling me that? My name is Cory, C.O.R.Y. Cory!" So they changed his name. Made me laugh.
Lauren - I had a similar experience a while back. Lots of funny symptoms (nausea, headaches, general ooky feelings), a missed period, and a negative pregnancy test. Turns out I had an ovarian cyst . . . . For two weeks I had been convinced I was pregnant, and I remember it being strange and dissappointing . . . .

That being said, it's probably nothing to worry about if it is a cyst, although I more than understand the disappointment. I conceived in October via a follicle on my right ovary, and at the time I had a 2.5cm cyst on lefty.

Hope this isn't the case for you . . . . (the part about the cyst, not the conceiving!)

Funnybird - I totally understand your frustration, it seems awful . . . .er . . . something that both of this friend's names have been suggested by other people. Did she think you guys just wouldn't notice ????

Michelina - IVF!!!!!!! Exciting!!!!!!

The latest info I had found during my internet travels (so take with a small grain of salt) was that with ICSI and assisted hatching, success rates can be as high as 50%. Kinda kicks IUI in the butt . . . .

Have you heard of ARC (advanced reproductive care, inc.)? We looked into it when we were considering IVF, it allows you to make a payment plan instead of paying everything up front. I think they even have some sort of rebate policy where if you pay a certain fee up front, you get some kind of refund if you go through three unsuccessful cycles, which was a very enticing option for us . . . .

I hope money isn't too much of an issue for you guys, but for us we wouldn't have ever been able to consider IVF without this program. Just one of the lovely downsides of being 23, halfway through my education, very very broke, and preparing for not only parenthood but the cost of infertility treatments as well. . . . .cruel cruel world!!!!

Hope everyone is well out in bustie land . . . .

I'm glad it's not just me being cranky and bitter about my friend because she's super-fertile (she's the one who conceived on her honeymoon and was pregnant again within a year of giving birth) and I'm, well, not. I've decided to give her the benefit of the doubt and believe that she doesn't remember the conversation we had about names - it was about 6 months ago. Although if she ever gets pregnant again I'm keeping my mouth shut around her!

Cristine, I'm sorry you feel low. I'm feeling the same - like it's just never going to happen for me and AB. I'm 9DPO, so we're nearly in sync this month and can help keep each others chins up (do Americans and Canadians say "keep your chin up", or is that really British?).

Nickclick, did I forget to congratulate you? I'm always composing posts in my head that I never get to post, so I can't keep up with what I've said to who. Anyway, congratulations!
funny, I can speak for the U.S. in saying that yes we do use that phrase. I will be keeping fingers crossed for both of us in the coming week!
Big temp drop this morning and then my period.

Well, I'm glad that the waiting is over and I at least have a result.

Thanks ladies for your help and support!
Lauren, one month I had 17 days of high temps & it dropped at 18 dpo so of course I looked up how often temps dip below the coverline and if I could still be pregnant (despite the negative tests)... but I ended up starting my period later that day. I know how much it must suck to have the full 18 days under your belt only to start at 19 dpo. Hang in there, for most it seems like a very tough ride... but at least you're not alone here!
Lauren, despite what all the experts say I've learned that luteal phases are NOT always consistent! Mine are usually 15 days, but in the months that I've been charting I've an 11 day and a 17 day. At least you know what's going on now.

Pepper, I meant to say that your story about your friend's indignant-talking-infant dream made me laugh.
I found out today that my SIL (bro's wife) is pregnant. It was unplanned, but they are super happy. I found out from an email from her while I was at work. I had a complete meltdown at work. Everyone in my department knew, and I was crying in front of many of them.

And the worst thing is that they lives in Calgary and she will be in her 3rd tri when I start IVF. I am no longer excited about IVF and question whether I even want to be there to do it. I am feeling so selfish, but I am so devastated that both of my younger sibs will have children and I will be undergoing IVF, and there is no guarantee.

Still having a meltdown. I am all by myself right now and I am scared about my lack of ability to cope.
Now I have to pull myself together enough to make my congratulatory phone call.
Michelina - I am so so so sorry. I still have a really hard time with the fact that some people can conceive without even trying.

Before we were TTC ( but knew I had endo) and while we were TTC I absolutely dreaded seeing people who were pregnant. I tried to avoid situations where there were pregnant ladies as much as I could, especially ones I was close to and would have to interact with. But I think the anticipation of seeing these women ended up being much worse than actually seeing them. Usually, I surprised myself and wasn't nearly as upset as I thought I would have been . . . . Even if you find you can't be around her that much, I think that it is totally understandable and totally ok if you need some space while going through IVF.

Don't think you are unable to cope because you are at a low point. That's just what happens when you're going through this process, and it's expected to feel discouraged, especially after getting some tough news. It doesn't make you unable, or less strong, or less capable. Look how far you have made it . . . . I'm pretty sure you are one strong lady.

And I think that putting yourself through all of this awful waiting/testing/IUIing so you and your husband can share a family together is about the least selfish thing in the world . . . .

Hope tomorrow brings a better outlook.

Damn, Michelina, I'm so sorry. That's really the last thing you need to hear right now.

As you know, I've struggled with my SiL's (Architect Boy's sister) pregnancy. I also found out at work, by e-mail, and proceeded to have a meltdown. I actually left early, went round to a friend's place and sat on his sofa bawling for about an hour. With everything that was going on at the time - as you may remember it was just days after AB's diagnosis and surgery, plus the miscarriage and the polyp - it was more than I could take. Well, she gave birth last Friday and I spent the weekend with a horrible knot in my stomach, unable to sleep, just thinking over and over again "it should have been me!". Only now, nearly a week later am I starting to feel happy for them and excited about meeting the baby.

It's hard for me to even confess to all of this, because I adore my SiL and her boyfriend and I feel terrible about how I've reacted, but I also know there are limits to how selfless and gracious a person can be! I guess what I'm trying to say is you're not alone, and please don't be hard on yourself. You are absolutely not selfish.

Can you possibly send a congratulatory text, e-mail or card instead? Would that be easier? I think that if your family know what you're going through at the moment they'll understand.

more hugs for (((Michelina))) i hope her email was sensitive to what you're going thru. i agree with funny's suggestion of sending congrats via a writen note.

and thanks funny!

i'm still cramping. nothing worse than PMS cramps and i can't tell the diff between those and gas bubbles, since constipation is an issue as well (sorry... TMI). i quickly sat up before and felt a sharp pain that may have been a gas bubble, but it worried the shit outta me (not literally, unfortunately). and i still see a bit of pink when i wipe. my doc appt in almost 2 weeks can't come soon enough.
Michelina, I know exactly how you must be feeling right now. It is so hard to be excited for others when, like funny said, it should have been us! And I agree with not making a phone call if you don't have to, this is hard enough as it is! And I really hope this doesn't put a damper on your excitement about IVF. As you might remember, a super fertile friend of mine is pregnant with her 3rd while still breastfeeding her 2nd! She wasn't even excited to find out and was in denial about it for the first few weeks. It's been very hard ro be excited for someone like that!

Nick. my friend that I described above had spotting start a little over a week ago & it hasn't stopped... she is approximately 10 weeks & went to her first ultrasound because she was worried. The doctor said it's fine but to be a little less active and to keep monitoring color & flow. Even though she's still spotting, the doc gave her the green light to return to normal activity after just a few days. So I wouldn't be too worried.
Lauren, I'm so sorry this wasn't your are still in the early stages of TTC, but that doesn't mean that every month doesn't feel lousy when it doesn't happen. I'm glad at least you have your period and it's almost certainly not a cyst or anything like awful as I felt about getting my period when I was TTC, after 3 or 4 days, I would start to become hopeful about trying again...I hope you start feeling hopeful again soon...hang in there.

Michelina, I am SO SO sorry...damn, this journey has not been fair to you. I agree that you don't HAVE to call right now. I am not sure if your SIL knows about your fertility journey, but if she does and has an ounce of humanity, she won't expect a call nor will she be offended if she doesn't get one.

When I was about 15 weeks pregnant, my husband's best friend and his wife came to town to visit, and we had dinner. The wife (who I have come to know fairly well) E-mailed me ahead of the visit to tell me she was pleased for me but she couldn't help but be jealous...turns out they had been TTC for three years with no luck. (They are now in the process of adoption.) At any rate, I appreciated her candor and her frankness, and God knows I was so glad to know because we hardly talked about the baby at all during dinner...I think if your SIL is at all understanding, she will totally get if you just don't want to talk about or hear about this pregnancy.

As for the IVF...screw what anyone else thinks including your coworkers. You and Mr. M are the ONLY ones who can make these decisions for yourselves. If it helps, I think you are making great decisions, and this whole community supports your choices.

By the way, have you considered talking to someone? My therapist actually specializes in infertility and working with infertile couples and has published and spoken on the topic...I wouldn't be surprised if she had the names of good counselors in Canada (can't remember what province you are in, but you can let me know)...anyway, let me know, and I could speak to her about references or any ideas she might have for you...books, support groups, etc.

Always, always thinking of you and hoping for every good thing.

Funny, thinking of you, too! Yes, Americans do say keep your chin up! As for your new mama SIL, you are entitled to every feeling...I don't know if this helps or may be cold comfort...but I can say six months into the pregnancy I often enjoy having conversations that are NOT about being seems that is all anyone wants to talk to me about...and as thrilled and truly grateful I am about being pregnant, I know I look forward to conversations where there are other topics at hand. I have heard from many new moms that sometimes they want to talk about things other than the baby! I just know your SIL feels the same way...she doesn't need you to talk about the baby all the time...she just wants you to be you. Don't know if that makes any sense....

Aphelendra and Christine...hello to you, ladies! I am so glad you are on this thread. smile.gif

Had this crazy fight with my extremely passive aggressive mom this week...she is jealous my Mother in law will be helping take care of the baby...she made all these nasty remarks that made me feel like she was undermining my ability to parent. I love my mom but she is a damaged person in some ways, and I am so grateful for my therapist who is really helping me work through some of this. At any rate, having Ponyo is really bringing out a lot of this stuff to the forefront again...ah, life changes!!!

XOXOXO to all and more later...
Nickclick...forgot to say to you...early spotting is very normal. I myself didn't have it, but it seems like of all the pregnant women I know, I am in the minority! As long as the flow doesn't increase along with cramping, it is probably okay. I wouldn't hesitate to contact the doc at ANY time....remember they are there for you. As someone once told me...if OB/GYNs didn't want to talk to nervous women, they would have become dermatologists...
Zelda - I am glad I'm here too! This is truly the best forum I've ever run across

And I get the mom stuff too. We're living in my parents building, beneath them, financially that's what is enabling us to have this baby right now. There's only a staircase and two doors between me and lots of meddling unsupportiveness (although to be fair there has been support too).

My relationship with my mom is uh . . . . er . . . . hmmmm . . . . strained at times. Parenting with her so close by is going to be an exercise in . . . .something . . . .

On the upside, I never run out of toilet paper and I can raid their fridge anytime I like. smile.gif They have all the good cheese.

Funny how a good therapist makes life run so much more smoothly . . . .

Nick - I never had spotting, but I did have lots of "growing pains" early in my first trimester. Some pretty intense stuff.

And lemme tell ya, constipation on its own can be oh so painful. (Lots of us endo ladies have digestive issues. You know, because our insides don't hurt enough already.) It's pretty gross stuff, but I found the occasional frosty glass of Metamucil to be quite helpful. But tread carefully if you are having the queasies. The texture is ooky at best . . . .

Went to the dermatologist today to check on a new mole . . . . everything all good. Got conned into buying a thirty dollar bottle of face wash to deal with my fun pregnancy acne. Guess what glycolic acid feels like on your face? You guessed it ladies, it burns like fuck.

Oh, and now I pee a little every time I sneeze. Fan-freaking-tastic.


Hope everyone is well. Good lucks and good vibes to the TTC ladies . . . .

Just a quick post to thank all of you Busties for the support. This news has really affected me. Mr M and I are rethinking our decision to do IVF in Calgary now. I think the stress of seeing my SIL very pregnant would be hard to handle. It would also be hard to not "rain on their parade." We are looking at our options. I am not happy about how my SIL told me their news. Firstly, why did it have to be on my work email right in the middle of my work day. She knows that we were trying to conceive and that I was very down about it. Secondly, she didn't even tell my bro that she was telling me, nor did she tell him after. He was shocked when I called and congratulated him today. He was quite angry with her, and I cannot blame him. She was out of line. He wanted to tell me himself in his own time. I think that my SIL is so excited and absorbed in her pregnancy that she could not possibly be a good support for me. I am going to take a step back.

I contacted someone today who went through IVF and we will be getting together soon. I think she will be a great support for me.

Zelda, thank you so much for your offer! That is so sweet of you. I did manage to connect with a psychologist who specializes in infertility today so I think I am all set. I just have to make an appointment now. I appreciate all of your support a great deal.

Lauren, so sorry that this wasn't your month. I was really hoping for you. But hopefully it is right around the corner.

Aphelendra, Funnybird, and Cristine - thanks for understanding and for your kind words.

Nickclick, it sounds like what you're describing is very normal. I am sending lots of positive energy to you for a healthy pregnancy. I imagine time is dragging right now!!!
Nickclick, I had a little bit of pink when I wiped in the first few weeks of pregnancy (the terrible scrutinising of toilet paper comes back in late pregnancy when you're waiting for your show!) and I am sat here typing with my baby monitor next to me looking at my 10 week old baby sleeping peacefully in his crib. The first few weeks I was pregnant I felt like my period was about to start and incessantly googled pregnancy symptoms to reassure myself that what I was feeling was actually normal in pregnancy. I actually had some bleeding in late pregnancy which, while it sent me into a tailspin, I was told was one of those things. A friend of mine had something similar in early pregnancy, had an early ultrasound, and all was well. Congratulations on your pregnancy, I wish you all the best for the months ahead.

Michelina, I am so so sorry to hear your news and I wanted to let you know that I am thinking of you. It's really unfortunate that your SiL wasn't more thoughtful in how she told you about the pregnancy and I really understand how this news would have hit you so hard. It sounds like a great idea to talk to someone who has been through IVF and get that support, and you must be very kind to yourself at the moment. What you are going through is so rough and you mustn't worry about not coping. Being upset isn't not coping and you have every right to be upset. ((((((((((michelina))))))))

thank you thank you thank you all. zelda, i will keep you advice about ob/gyns in mind and even though all seems normal, i'll probably have her on speed dial soon....

michelina, you are smart to take a step (or two) back from SIL and her self-absorbed pregnancy. jenny is also smart and right to suggest you be kind to yourself. you don't need the stress of dealing with insensitive people. enjoy your meeting and let us know how it goes.

speaking of moms, mine is just bursting to tell everyone. and i think she's more emotional than i am, crying at telling me every dream she has and every story about my childhood or hers. oh and at the mere mention of midwifery or even breast feeding, she's like - oh stop it with all that. i had to tell her that there have been advances in scientific study since the 34 years ago when she had one baby. i have a strong feeling there will be many more opportunities thru this pregnancy and grandchild-rearing for her to start sentences with the phrase - i'm not telling you what to do, but.....

Jenny! *Waves across London & cyberspace at Jenny* How the devil are you and little Archie?

Michelina, Wow - that's thoughtless of your SIL! Although from the sound of it, your brother might have had some stern words to say to her after he'd spoken to you, so she may well be feeling contrite by now. As for the not-wanting-to-go-to-Calgary thing, is that because you were planning to stay with your family or because you would feel obliged to socialise with them? Because if it's the latter, I wouldn't let that put you off - with everything going on during the treatment you'll have a pretty good excuse for not wanting to hang out. Thinking back to how excited you seemed a few days ago I just don't want something like this to knock you off course. What are your alternative options?

I've spent the day knitting baby shoes for my new nephew. And being (still) annoyed about my friend pinching my favourite girl's name. It's not just a great name, it's also the name of my favourite Tom Waits song and AB and I love Tom Waits. I'm wondering if she might be joking, as it also sounds extremely like the name she already given her son - so much so it would be comical to refer to them both by name in the same sentence. Hmm. I guess I'll find out soon.
I am getting rather ahead of myself worrying about baby names!
QUOTE(funnybird @ Feb 28 2010, 03:48 PM) *
I am getting rather ahead of myself worrying about baby names!

no way! that's one of the first topics discussed by mr.nick and me. and decorating the nursery. this is the fun stuff!

speaking of other important topics...... can i dye my hair pleeeeeeeeeese? i'm gonna scare this baby out with my broom hilda grey roots! i bought henna and no ammonia Natural Instincts, but have been too afraid to use either.
hey Nick -

Mayo clinic says hair dye is "probably safe" during pregnancy, but there is very limited research on the topic. There was a study in 2005 linking hair dye to neuroblastomas (a type of brain tumor in children) but no study has since reached the same conclusion. (Can ya tell I just googled this? ha. Have to admit, was curious myself.)

It does advise limiting scalp exposure, which probably wouldn't be too easy if you're trying to do root touch ups. They also recommend that it may be slightly less risky (if it's risky to begin with) in the second trimester. Which, If I think back to my first tri, probably feels a billion years away . . . .

I think I read in one of my pregnancy books that Henna is considered safe if it is indeed pure Henna.

On the other hand, I love a lady with a full head of salt and pepper hair. My paternal aunt was completely gray by 30, and I have to admit, I have always kind of hoped this would happen to me.

I seem to already be sprouting quite a few of 'em.

On another note . . . . Saw my chiropractor today because my arthritic hip is acting up.

Yes, that's right. Arthritic. And yes, 23 years old.


sigh. I'm off now to drown my sorrows in a turkey sandwich.

Hope everyone is well. . . .especially Ms. Michelina . . . . I hope you are feeling better . . . .

Nickclick, to play it safe, I would hold off on hair dye until the second trimester. It is probably okay, but why risk it. Now that is just me...and I am especially neurotic, I'll admit. But I figure if it's not absolutely necessary, I personally would not feel comfortable with it.

The bottom line, however, is that each woman has to decide for herself what she feels comfortable with during pregnancy. I took Ambien about 3 or 4 times during my first trimester and I even had to take Klonopin for two days when I was in the ER at 5 weeks with a massive panic attack (the fun fun times of the first trimester with hormone fluctuations that left me absolutely batty). I don't regret it - I know I needed it...but ultimately I think if your first trimester you can get by without anything, I would. It is the most critical period of development.

Just my thoughts... :-) I bet your hair looks adorable as is anyway!
Nickclick, Iím afraid I have no idea on that one. One to ask the doctor, I think. When you find out, let me know Ďcause I donít think I could endure nine months of mousy roots!

Cristine - my cycle buddy Ė how are you doing? I donít have any hope for myself this month - Iím just going through the motions for this cycle and the next until we hit our one-year of infertility so I can go and see the doctor. But I have hope for you! Anything to report yet?

Michelina, are you okay? Please check in and let us know. Iím still thinking of you.
thanks again all. i was feeling extra hormonal yesterday and depressed, staring at my zit face and bad hair so i broke out the henna. i haven't used that since like college 12 years ago and it was a mess. anyway it looks ok but i feel less hormonal this morning and don't care as much. i'm going to start calling the zits my happy baby blobs.

funny, any pix of the booties you are knitting/knitted?

yes, Michelina, how's it going????

aphelendra, sorry to hear about the arthritis. my SIL just turned 30 and was diagnosed with it in her late teens. she has meds for flares but i dunno if she has tried the chiro. hope it helps for you.
Nickclick, my zits were HORRIBLE very early on. I mean HORRIBLE. By 8 weeks or so they were almost all gone, and my skin has looked great during this pregnancy...

More later. I have my test for gestational diabetes today and am NOT looking forward to it!
Hey funny, I'm 12dpo & had a negative test today... my LP is typically 13-14 days but I think I've given up hope for this cycle. When I start my period Mr. C & I decided to book a vacation to San Francisco, haven't been there in years so I'm at least looking forward to that... and I'm planning it during my ovulation time, just in case. And no I'm not anticipating a vacation doing the trick for us, as we've been on 2 small vacations since TTC... I just need a fucking break from reality!!

On a side note, my breastfeeding friend who recently got pregnant just had a miscarriage yesterday. She & hubby are completely fine which helped me not feel as shitty for being jealous of her fertility and growing family! But then I started to get mad because just a week ago she heard the heartbeat and now she can be so matter of fact about it saying "it wasn't meant to be", so I guess there's really nothing she can say at this point that won't upset me in some way. I'm very close to becoming a hermit! Maybe I can beg my boss to work from home cuz I'm sick of saying "good, how are?" every time someone asks how I am... cuz I highly doubt anyone really wants know how I am right now!

I sincerely hope everybody else here is doing better than I am...
Christine - sorry about the negative . . . . not fun. I hope you get some much deserved rest and relaxation on your upcoming vacation . . . .

Nick - My acne was/is pretty bad during this pregnancy, although the fertility drugs were surely partly to blame. But the glycolic acid face wash the dermatologist gave me last week seems to be helping already. It's not getting rid of the big swollen uglies, but it's helping with the teeny tiny whiteheads that were literally blanketing my forehead.

Zelda - My fellow panic attacker! Fun times, eh?

I was diagnosed with panic disorder shortly before I was diagnosed with endometriosis. Needless to say, discovering I had limited fertility did not help my anxiety once I was diagnosed.

I don't know if you had problems before your pregnancy or are still having anxiety issues, but if you are or ever do, I found cognitive behavioral therapy to be the most amazing help. Sometimes I wonder if I would have made it through the last two years without it . . . .

Good luck on the gestational diabetes test!

I am positively dreading mine. My mom had it with both of us, and my weight gain has been crazy crazy crazy so far. Infernal hunger!

On a cheerier note . . . . three days till my 20 week scan!!!!! Nervous, nervous nervous . . . .
Hi everybody. I was here a bout 2.5 years ago. I just wanted to mention that increasing my protein and water helped me curb the weight gain--I gained 20 lbs in the first trimester and then it leveled off. If I had been eating more protein to begin with I think I would have avoided that first gain. Good luck!!
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