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Eyelet and Ananke, CONGRATULATIONS!!!! Wow, i can't believe your babies were born so close together! And I just adore the names. Two fabulous future busties born to two amazing, strong, smart women. Just think of all the wonderful things they will do because they have such wonderful mammas. I'm so giddy with excitement for both of you.

Ananke, I'm so disapointed your midwives were such morons. And here I was thinking that choosing a midwife when my turn comes, might spare me some of the 'holier-than-though' attitude most doctors seem to be dispensing as bedside manner these days. GAHHHHHH. Why is it so hard for people in the medical profession to believe that a women just might actually know a thing or two about her body.

Eyelet, I'm so sorry you're feeling this way. Know that from the perspective of someone reading about your experience you come off as nothing less than heroic! You are a warrior who has just emerged from battle. It's going to take a while for you to be able to appreciate and see this journey as a victory, but know that it absolutely is. I am beyond amazed and humbled by your experience and by the fact that you can even get on a computer and write about it. Michelina is right ... allow yourself to grieve over the planning that flew out the door and when you're ready embrace the fact that you were able to get through this without a plan. You rolled with it, did what you had to do, and the ultimate outcome is still the one you've been working towards, nurturing and planning for all this time: a gorgeous, perfect baby. Hang in there, we're all here with you.

Oh, Zelda ... darn that Mr. Z. What wasn't he thinking! God, I'm not sure where you're at on the mental processing of this but shit, the image of you walking in on him, and the WTF imagination bubble I'm picturing over your head as you very calmly and rationally reacted to all of this has some pretty exceptional comic value. Sigh... I'm constantly amazed at the idiotic things even the most wonderful, intelligent people can forget about. Bad timing, absolutely. Awkward situation, hell yeah. This is one of those shake your heads kind of moments I hope you'll one day be able to joke about together. In the meantime, I am applaud your calm, cool, and collected reaction. I'm not at all sure how I would have handled it, but now if it ever happens, I've got something to role model (see nothing is for nothing!!!).

Today was day 7 of my cycle. This is the day where I start going to the fertility clinic every single day before work. I was in Buffalo yesterday doing some cross-border bridesmaid dress shopping. I was feeling great all day and then at about 4 p.m. I got a really dry throat and two hours later I was clearly on the way to a full-fledged cold/flu of some kind. Today totally sucked, but I have a feeling tomorrow and Wednesday will be worse. I can't believe the shitty timing. Argh, as if this week wasn't already going to be stressful and tiring enough. The last two times I went to the clinic my ultrasound tech was this woman that doesn't even knock before opening the door to the changeroom they make you wait in (it's attached to the ultrasound room). And then she's extremely rough with the internal ultrasound wand. Bleh. I hope I don't get her for the rest of the week (there are like 10 ulstrasound rooms, so the odds are I shouldn't get her again). Anyway, things are looking really good. I have three follicles in the lead. The one on the right is 1.2 cm and the two on the left are 1.4 cm. With IUI and injectables they're looking for follicles over 1.8 cm. Something over 2cm is ideal. Since they tend to grow about .2 cm per day, I think I am ahead of schedule compared to previous months so hopefully I grow them really big. Make them nice and obvious for all those spermies.

Now, in the clarity of the next day, I truly am laughing about my experience with Mr. Z last night.

The man is a wonderful husband, but I have to remember that he is not the one peeing on OPK strips, checking mucus, etc. For him, the process is little more than me reminding him it's time to do it and then we do it.

He truly did forget he shouldn't masturbate, and fortunately he did not "finish" last night, and despite our exhausting, tired morning, we had a laugh about it this afternoon when he got home from work, and we did it in the afternoon. I'm glad.

It's such an up and down roller coaster. I am taking AZO yeast which I think is helping my yeast infection - the infection is either super mild or the AZO is working, because I am feeling much better today but still totally dried out.

It's Day 12 of my cycle, and normally at this point I would be feeling a ton of fertile CM. I'm still quite dry, and my digital OPK test was negative! I double checked with the strips that have a control line, and there is an obvious line, but it is not dark yet. It seems like I'm experiencing delayed ovulation for the first time (that I know of!). Looks like I will probably ovulate Wednesday or Thursday (when I am heading out of town).

I know sperm can survive for a few days, so I'm glad we did it today, but I think I'll feel better if we do it Wednesday and/or Thursday before I leave - and hopefully after a positive OPK. I'm feeling better (now), and Mr. Z is blissfully unaware how insane I have made myself (yet again).

Oh the ups and downs...

Michelina, I have a great feeling about this cycle for you!!! I know how much you want this because I feel the same way. I am crossing all fingers and toes for you.

Fookie, it is amazing to me how they are able to measure the follicles. I'm glad they're growing big even if you aren't feeling the best. A pox on the mean ultrasound lady...I had a tech at Planned Parenthood (years ago) do the very same thing - walk in and not introduce herself and oof! There was the speculum! Ouch!

Keep us in the loop, and everyone please cross your fingers I get my positive OPK before I leave town!


I am looking forward to hearing more updates from Eyelet and Ananke - when they can take a break!

eyelet, please don't think you failed. It sucks about the insurance and feeding is hard bloody work (hopefully not literally, but that's a possibility apparently) and c-sections aren't fun. But you just had MAJOR abdominal surgery for your little girl. You withstood so much pain for her, to get her here and healthy. You're doing everything you can and you need to congratulate yourself for that. You went through so so so much, let yourself grieve, but don't blame yourself. At one point the thought of more pain for much longer nearly broke me to pieces. I can remember the sheer fucking desperation and terror when I demanded Mr A get the epidural - everything was so clear because I was just unable to contemplate that much pain for much longer. And you went through that for so long. You are doing so much and so well.

Fookie - I figured the midwives would be good as well! It was just insane. And I'm with Zelda, the measuring of follicles is just awesome.

I just had a bit of an outing, dropping my Mum at the airport to fly home. So it's just me and Mr A and Fallon for the next two weeks. It's all still a bit unreal to be honest - I think the first day home by ourselves will be a shock to the system.
I've been thinking of you yesterday and today. Just wanted to chime in with everyone else, that it's OK (and necessary) to grieve being deprived of the birth experience you wanted. I know that even though you might understand mentally that you did not fail (and you would never feel that another woman in your situation had failed), emotionally you might not be able to help but feel that. And just because you might understand where that feeling comes from (we all feel the need to blame something when we're grieving, and in the absence of a convenient external target it tends to go right to ourselves) doesn't mean that feeling magically goes away. I've had several friends who had rough birth experiences similar to yours (many, many hours of labor followed by an emergency c-section) and I know it was just emotionally exhausting as well as physically exhausting for them and their partners. It SUCKED for awhile, but they got through it and I know you and Elowen and your Mr. will get through it too. Like ananke said, you are a warrior and you've already been through fire for your little girl. But it's OK not to feel strong right now. Just do what you can to take care of yourself and your little one. What you can give will be enough.

Fookie, I agree - that measuring of the follicles is really cool! I have to say, I was wincing when you described the tech being "rough with the ultrasound." Those vaginal ultrasounds are not something you want to get poke-y with. Yowch.

zelda, I think even though we all masturbate, even well after getting into a committed relationship, it's still weird to walk in on a partner doing it without us. Top that off with the anxiety of trying to conceive and no wonder things were AWKward. Glad you were able to laugh about it later on. Try not to fret too much about the might actually have more up by your cervix where it counts. I honestly didn't know what the heck was going on with my CM when I conceived.

Oh, Michelina, I know you want this so badly. I want this badly for you and zelda and Fookie too! Good luck distracting yourself from symptoms during the wait. ;-)
Zelda, you two are probably going to laugh over that incident for years to come. Although it’s maybe not quite the story to share with the grandchildren. ;-)

As far as the CM, I agree with Julie – it may be in vast quantity up where it counts.

And thanks for the positive words and energy. I think there is something to be said about having people out there hoping for you.

Eyelet, I hope you are feeling better. As Julie said, it is okay not to feel strong. Just take care or yourself and your precious daughter. Rest and relax when you can.

Fookie, I got a great mental image of the ultrasound tech and her wand. Ouch! Hope you're feeling better, and good luck in this cycle!

I think the week ahead will be torturous for two reasons. Firstly, I am concerned about a short luteal phase and am hoping that the B6 will have helped. I know I’ll be upset if I get my period before 11 dpo. Secondly, it’s driving me crazy because of the possible symptom. It doesn’t help that work is super slow this week. At least I have my move to keep me busy when I’m not at work!
Thanks for the kind words, Julie and Michelina - about the CM. I feel like this cycle is just wonky. In addition to the lack of any CM (very strange for me), I can't get a read on my OPK. Yesterday was there but faint. Today I took one and it was the same, but my urine was really diluted from too much liquid this morning. (I'll test again tonight.)

I can't decide if I am not ovulating or just ovulating late. It's cycle day 13 and I should have some signs. Of course I've got myself worked up into a frenzy that I'm not ovulating at all or whatever! I know this is silly considering the fact that I have very regular cycles and normal periods.

Anyway...that in combination with a possible yeast infection (or something) is just throwing me all out of whack. Sex is not painful, so I guess we will continue with that one or two more times (I hope) before I got out of town, and I'll just pray that this is not the one time I ovulated late.

My BFF was saying that maybe I ovulated early and the lines I am seeing are the end of the surge...that would be pretty weird for me though.

Oh hell, who knows anymore!

I, too, hope to laugh about the masturbation story in a few years!!!
Zelda, your friend may have a point. If not, I assure you that you will ovulate. I felt that same sort of panic when I didn't ovulate until day 22 in April. I was worrying that it was a sign of premature menopause or some kind of pathological event. Now I realize it was just an outlier. I just hope that when you do ovulate, it's at the right time for baby! Fingers crossed.

Have you been taking cough syrup this cycle?
Well, I got a positive OPK this morning, Michelina, crazily this is making me question all my other cycles. Still no fertile CM...I was taking cough syrup, but I thought perhaps it could be contributing to my mild yeast infection (which has cleared up with homeopathic treatment, thankfully), so I stopped taking it. It's cycle day 14 - normally what I would consider "late" for me...this means I need to be using an OPK every month, I think.

Mr. Zelda may have to work late, and he was reallly tired this morning...argh! I told him (as casually as I could) that it would be a good idea to do it when he gets home from work...either tonight or tomorrow morning. He said okay, so hopefully it will happen. I am crossing my fingers that it happens - or that his deposit from Cycle Day 12 is still valid. :-)

We shall see...

God, it gets so clinical...bleh!
Argh...I just got a very clear positive OPK test - both digital (the fucking smiley face) and the regular ones, and I'm sitting at home hoping that when Mr. Z gets home in two hours he will want to do it.

When I was a nubile 20 year old, I never doubted for one second that it would be easy as Hell to get a man to service me. Now I'm waiting around, nervously drinking a cocktail and praying that Mr. Z won't be "too tired" when he gets here. I'm wavering between being casual and - if he doesn't seem in the mood - letting him know it really should be today or tomorrow morning.

Nervously bites fingernails...
How did it go yesterday, Zelda?

I woke up this morning with a slightly lower temp. I worried at first that I am getting my period, but even for me that would be wierd. I'm at CD7 now. I am so hoping to make it to Monday. If not, I am going to book an appointment with my doctor and see what she says about this new problem.
Michelina, not to sound like the baby dust crazies, but couldn't a lower temp at 7 dpo be a potential implantation dip? I remember reading on Fertility Friend (I don't go there anymore because taking my temp made me insane), but I remember reading that their data showed that women who did have an implantation dip had it on average around day 7...of course plenty of women don't have one, but...just a thought.

I truly do think you are probably fine re: your luteal phase seeing as your cycles have been normal and healthy and you're young. I just don't know that this would just start happening suddenly. That said, it makes sense that you would want to check with a doctor just for peace of mind. I would imagine they could do a pretty simple blood test to determine progesterone levels.

As for me, I was buzzed on cocktails when Mr. Z came home *early* from work (surprise!) just an hour or so after I got the positive OPK. We did it then, and we did it this morning, too! So I cannot say that he hasn't been obliging, heh heh.

Despite my lack of EWCM this cycle and my mild yeast infection, I dare say that this is one of the best timed cycles we've ever had. I'm leaving out of town in a few hours to visit a friend. I suppose in a perfect world we would do it tomorrow, too, but I won't be here, so that's simply not a possibility. However, I'm glad we managed to get two rounds in around the time of the positive OPK as well as two more times before the surge, which I've heard can be just as important.

Of course, this makes me question all my other cycles when we stopped trying after day 13 because I was sure I had already ovulated. I think I have to use OPK tests for every month. The one time I used them, I did ovulate on day 13, but obviously that was not the case this time.

Starting about two days ago, I started to take a baby aspirin every morning. I've heard that is supposed to help with implantation. We shall comes the wait.
Hey just a quick jump in while I'm at work.

Good on all the "doing it" Zelda. Pat on the back for Mr. Z. too. I'm just curious what your OPK's say about timing. Mine say to wait 24-36 hours after the positive reading. And I know that when they inject me with HCG (like they did today) it takes a minimum of 24 hours, usually closer to 36 for the egg to be released. So they tell me NOT to have sex today, and to do the IUIs tomorrow and the next day. The second one is just for in case I ovulated at the very end of the 48 hour window. The idea is to get the sperm in there BEFORE I release my eggs. So in terms of timing, you're perfectly fine. I just always get confused b/c today I have crazy EWCM but they don't want us to have sex tonight. Drives me nuts b/c my EWCM usually only lasts about a day ... so would nature be fooling me? Or is it fooling THEM? Argh. I hope the timing is perfect. If this works out then we could tell my dad early when we visit in August (he lives far away, I wouldn't see him again until Xmas) and my mom who also lives at a bit of a distance, in mid-August. And we could announce to Mr. F's family when they're over for his b-day mid September ... it would all be so perfect. Plus we have to take a two month break after this cycle b/c of summer plans and bank account replenishing.

I'll be in stirrups at about 10 a.m. tomorrow and Saturday ... wish me and my two lovely follicles good luck!
Yay, Zelda! Looks like you and I both timed these cycles very well. Now for the wait... Thanks for your reassurance about my cycles. I am hoping that last cycle was just an abnormality. I do remember having a cycle with a very short LP after I started using FAM back in 2005. It kind of freaked me out, but it didn't happen again. I keep reading that the LP is the consistent one, but I find that my follicular phase is actually the more consistent one.

My temp was elevated today, (more so than yesterday) but not highly elevated. I am hoping that my temp stays up all weekend. I feel nervous now when I temp in the morning. Even my sleep seems broken up and I wonder if it's because I'm stressed about it. It could be the heat too, though.

Fookie, I was wondering about the OPK timing lately. Mine say that ovulation will happen between 24 and 48 hours. I seem to ovulate by about 24 hours after a positive. That would drive me nuts too - all that fertile CM! But chances are that CM will still be up near your cervix tomorrow even if not noticed by you. Will be thinking of you in your stirrups! :-) Good luck, and good luck to your lovely follicles too!
Hi, everyone...I was gone for a few days and away from the computer. Fookie, I hope your timing was perfect. I can understand about being confused about the EWCM. It's hard to know if you should trust these signals or your doctors. Bottom line you are still hitting a good window, and with IUI you can bypass the cervix anyway (right?). I don't understand what the harm would have been if you had gone ahead and done it before the IUI. Do they want a clean slate?

I was using two brands of OPKs this month - the digital Clearblue easy one (with the smiley face) and then Answer. Answer's directions said to have sex within 24 to 36 hours of a positive test. The digital one says the day you have a smiley face and the following day are your most fertile.

I hope we hit the mark, and I'm glad we did it one more time on the second day, too. Ideally I would have liked to have done it yesterday, too, but I wasn't home.

I feel guilty. I was gone visiting an old friend and we drank a bunch of beers and - argh - I smoked some cigarettes last night. I know it's ridiculous - I'm probably not even pregnant, and even if I am, it's waaaay too early to think about that.

But still, this morning I started thinking, "Oh no, what if I did conceive, and all those cigarettes and beer prevent implantation?" Ridiculous, I realize...but. I've been pretty moderate in my alcohol consumption since TTC, but the cigarettes are something I quit a few years back, but being with this old friend made me light up for old time's sake...yuck. I feel gross about it now.

I'm going to be very good to my body for the next few weeks...

Feeling guilty...
Hi all.

Michelina and Zelda, thank you for the reassurance re the timing and the EWCM. I think we hit it in the perfect window this month.

Zelda, I think that the fact that you were able to hang out, have fun, and relax is way more important to implantation than the fact that you had a few beers and smoked a couple of cigarettes. I haven't heard that either of those things affect implantation anyway. So treat your body good anyway, but don't stress about any of that. I actually had a doctor tell me once "off the record" that she knew of many patients who had conceived after having a few drinks and/or partaking in some pot.

My partner and I did the second of the back-to-back IUIs this morning. His sperm and motility numbers were phenomenal and the ultrasound showed conclusively that one follicle had erupted and that the other one could have erupted (it's hard for them to be 100% sure). My bloodword this morning came back with really high progesterone numbers which the nurse said pretty much guaranteed that both follicles had released an egg. Yay! I came home with four boxes of 12 progesterone suppositories to insert in the orifice of my choosing (not my nose or ears). The nurse told me that there is data that suggests that the body absorbs it better rectally and that inserting them vaginally often caused yeast infections ... so guess what I'm doing ... ugh! She says I will "enjoy" many pregnancy symptoms over the next 14 days due to the progesterone. If I do get a positive on July 6 (that's my test day) I will have to continue taking these until 12 weeks when the placenta takes over progesterone production. Who knew? I am cautiously optimistic about this cycle.

Ananke and Eyelet, I hope you're both doing well. Look forward to updates from you both.
Fookie, thanks for the reassurance! I am still going to be a teetotaler for a while, but you're right...I doubt any indiscretions over the past two days would contribute to any problems. I'm going to continue to take a baby aspirin a day (another reason not to drink too much as that is contraindicated with aspirin), and hope for the best.

Wow, it seems like there was some great timing on all of our parts this month. We shall all cross our fingers for one another. Fookie, it sounds very promising indeed!

Oh, and I know about inserting suppositories rectally. I had a terrible problem with hemorrhoids many years back (had to have surgery!), and I was inserting more suppositories into my rectum than I'd like to admit. But the butt is better than the vag if it means no yeast infections!

Ah, the topics on this thread!
Oh, and Michelina...about the temp thing making you nervous. I understand...that is why I only temped for a month, but I had to stop because it just made me so nervous. I really do think that temping can be a very useful tool, but it has to work for you. By the way, I think feeling anxious and unsettled during your sleeping can definitely make a difference.

The only time I have tried temping recently is to take my temp the day my period is due. If it is low (around 96 or so), I know my period is coming. But I decided after one month that my sleep patterns and my nerves could just not handle temping every day.

However, I know because of your concern about your luteal phase, you want to temp...just hang in there and let us know what's up (hopefully...your temp!). Ha ha...stupid joke. ;-)
Fookie, glad to hear that all the results were great and the timing was right. The suppositories don't sound fun, but do sound better to use anally than vaginally. Is this your first time using progesterone, or just your first time using it in this form?

Zelda, I agree with Fookie that your own relaxation is more important than anything. Having drinks and smokes at that early stage won't harm a thing. I don't know if there is any evidence at all that alcohol impedes implantation. It is probably on the internet somewhere, but I imagine it's a theory rather than a proven fact. And not only that, I understand that implantation doens't occur until sometime between days 6 and 12. So you're fine! And I appreciated your pun. :-) Temp was still high today on 10dpo so things are looking up! Ha ha - that's my own attempt.

Actually, my temp was 98.4 today, and has recently been hovering around 98.1 or 98.2 after ovulation. I am glad I'm temping as I won't have to go all day worrying that my period is coming. I am in a great mood now. If I can just get to 12dpo, I'll be satisfied. Of course, the best case scenario is not getting a period AT ALL!

The difference in basal body temp between people interests me. Zelda, you mentioned having a BBT around 96. Mine has never been under 97.5 before ovulation and never over 98.5 after. I have a friend whose BBT is often around and sometimes above 99!
Glad your temp is up, Michelina! Yes, the body temp thing can definitely vary. That one month I temped, I knew I'd ovulated when I temped 97.5 three days in a row. I'd once in a while have 98.0. But my body temperature has always been slightly lower than the norm, although my doctor told me it is still in the normal range.

I do wish I knew what day I ovulated. I guess day 15 this month if the positive OPK was on day 14?
That would be my guess, Zelda. Although I suppose there's a possibility you ovulated on day 16. Do you ever get ovulation cramps? I do about every second month or so. I like it. And they're nothing compared to period cramps!

Speaking of periods, I am lightly spotting so my guess is that my period will arrive tomorrow. :-( I will take my temp in the morning again, but am prepared for a low temp. At least I will have made it to 11 days this month. I had a cry with my mom today and decided to book a doctor's appointment in July once our move is behind us. Mr. M. is going to come to the appointment too. Luckily we have the same doctor so we can talk about an eventual sperm analysis too. I SO wish that it wasn't coming to this, but need to accept that it just may need to.
Argh, Michelina. I so feel your disappointment. I still think a 10 or 11 day luteal phase is not a serious concern BUT I can completely understand why you want to get it checked out. Oh so frustrating. I want this so badly, and I also want it for you and Fookie very badly, too (and funnybird...wondering how she is doing).

You are doing the absolute right thing by going to the doctor. It's going to make you feel better. You are going to get some answers and find out if there's anything you need to worry about and if there is a concern, what are the steps you can take. It may end up not involving much more than some medicine or supplements if anything. You are being proactive and that's great. I'm so glad you have your mom nearby. I had a cry with my mom over the phone last month...good but not the same as having her nearby.

Speaking of, I gave Mr. Z the sperm analysis doctor's name and info and told him it is up to him to pursue the analysis. (I wanted to wait until we were done trying this month to give it to him so as not to distract him.) I told him I am fine for trying until the holidays, and if we're not pregnant by then, he will need to do it (and I will go to the doctor, too.) We'll see...

To answer your question, I don't think I've ever had ovulation cramps. Sometimes I get gas around that time, but I do not know if it's related. I'm hoping if I did ovulate on day 16 that Mr. Z's sperm lived on long enough from the day before.


Please come vent whenever...thinking of you...
Thanks, Zelda. Yes, there is some reassurance in just having a plan of action. I am so lucky to have my mom in the same city as me. We lived apart for several years, and I know what you mean about the phone. It's just not quite the same. My mom had her own fertility issues so she definitely understands the frustration and disappointment of TTC.

My temp this morning was still elevated. I guess this means there's a chance my actual period won't rear her ugly head today, but I do at least expect spotting. I'm a little hopeful I may make it to a 12-day luteal phase. Fingers crossed. Of course, there is still the implantation bleed possibility, but I know my body too well. This spotting is all too familiar.

How are Eyelet, Ananke, and the new babes doing?
I'm working on a freelance article and distracting myself by checking this are you Michelina? Any news? How are you feeling?

I had a terrible headache and tons of creamy CM today. I guess I'm about 4 dpo. Who knows. Once again, the waiting sucks.
Fingers crossed for all the TTCers...I know the wait is a killer. Michelina, hoping that the spotting is just spotting...

Being pregnant seems to be intensifying my emotions about everything. I find that when I'm's just all about the bliss. And sometimes it takes very little to make me happy: Mmm, this cheeseburger is delicious! Wow, what an interesting conversation I just had! That sun feels so good on my neck! But when I'm worried or stressed or sad, it's just that much harder to stop my inner dialogue. (I'll spare you the details of that.) So if you were thinking, "If I could just get pregnant, I could stop obsessing about all of this," think again. You'll just obsess over new stuff. But sometimes it's a good thing.

My little bit of sadness/wistfulness for today is that it's the birthday of my little niece who was stillborn. She would have been two years old today, sweet girl.

But here's what I'm happy about today: my echocardiogram turned out fine (as before, they had trouble really finding any kind of issue at all that would be causing the murmur, except for a tricuspid thing that apparently is very common and is absolutely nothing of concern), my quad screen blood test came back and there was "no indication of a need for further testing," and per my last prenatal visit everything's growing just great. I should start feeling movement any time in the next couple weeks but am having trouble figuring out if I've felt anything or if it's just gas or hunger twinges. It's fun lying there trying to figure it out, though. I also have been talking to baby a little, mostly in the shower in the morning or when I'm alone in the car (so as to avoid looking like a crazy person talking to herself).
Julie, when my BFF started to feel movement, she wasn't sure...she called me and was like, "Is it a miracle or just gas?" :-)

So glad all is going well! Really glad. I'm so sorry to hear about your niece. It's my understanding that stillbirths are thankfully very rare these days. So very sad.

Argh, back to the freelance work. At least it's distracting me from the two week wait.
Just a quick update - Fallon ended up back in hospital on the weekend because she was pretty severely jaundiced. Which meant I was totally and completely hysterical after I got off the phone with the paediatrician who asked us to get to the hospital as soon as we could. I got to stay in the hospital with her the first night to keep up the breastfeeding, but had to express for the next night. She's home now, still on three hourly feeds and as much sunlight as possible to make sure the bilirubin is flushed out of her system good and proper.

I scared the crap out of Mr A with the crying that first day though. And last night was rough - she's feeding heaps and heaps but because of the flat nipples/crappy milk ducts, it takes forever and saps her energy. So I'm still expressing to top up her feeds with a bottle. It doesn't seem to have affected her ability to latch at all, but she was so cranky most of the night.

I hope everything goes well with follicles and testing and all of the waiting. That's awesome to hear that the tests came back so positive too julie!

And eyelet, I'm thinking good thoughts at you, and I hope it's going well.
Ananke, it must have been so hard having Fallon in hospital. I'm so glad to hear she's back home now. Sounds like feeding is rough. Hang in there and take care of you too!

Julie, great news about the echo and the screening! And even if it isn't baby movement now, it will be soon. So sorry about your niece.

Zelda, glad to hear you have a distraction with your freelance work. Fingers are crossed for you.

Well, I have good news and bad news. The good news is that I spotted very lightly for two full days with a high temperature, which takes me to a luteal phase of 12 days. The spotting wasn't increasing in flow, which was making me quite hopeful. The bad news is that I took a pregnancy test. Negative. Now my spotting has increased and I am pretty sure my period is on her way. :-( I actually thought yesterday that this may be it. I need to focus on the positive here: my LP was 12 days! I thought about not going to the doctor now, but my BFF convinced me it is better to go and have the visit documented now. I think she's right.
So glad you made it to 12 days, Michelina, but I agree with your friend that you should still go to the doctor primarily because it will make you feel better. I really do think it's fine, but it will mean a lot more coming from a doctor. I know it's so scary and difficult, but you and I are both still early on in the process.

For me, I'm just hoping this could be our month. Our timing was really, really good. I'm taking my baby aspirin and hoping for the best. I guess this is around our 6th month of trying. I am going to use the OPK strips from here on out.

Ananke, I do hope Fallon is feeling better!!! I cannot even imagine the whirlwind of emotions and craziness you must be feeling, but I do hope you are able to enjoy each other!!!
Ananke, I hope Fallon is feeling better! I know it must have been hella scary to have to bring her back to the hospital and I completely understand why you would be so upset. I've known of a few babies who had to get treated for jaundice in the early days and it sounds like with a little treatment everyone was fine. Also, all reports I get are that breastfeeding is HARD at first (far from the easy "natural" thing it's "supposed" to be) so I'm sure things will improve.

Speaking of breastfeeding, can anybody recommend a good breastfeeding book? I've been trying to read The Womanly Art of Breastfeeding from La Leche League but it's kind of driving me crazy. The whole first part of the book seems to be trying to convince me why it's better to breastfeed. Look, I already decided to nurse, I'm already sold, okay? I keep reading, looking for some tips on HOW TO DO IT which is why I was reading it in the first place, and so far it mostly seems to be a series of essays on why breast pumps aren't as good as nursing directly, why you shouldn't be pumping so you can go see a movie or something to get out of the house, maybe you should rethink your plan to go back to work after the baby comes, OK if you HAVE to go back to work you should totally do a ton of nursing at night so you still get to have that special bond after you get home from work....aack. I am very much in favor of moms doing what's best for THEM and their families, whether that's full-time daycare and work outside the home, caring for the baby full-time, or something in between. I get that breastfeeding got a bad rap for awhile and LLL has been huge in giving women support for breastfeeding and for choosing what's best for them and their families. But so far this book feels a little over the top and the tone seems almost a bit critical of women who choose anything but nursing on demand.

I'm probably going to take a class too but was hoping to read up on stuff like the good little student I am. ;-)

Michelina, I think it's good to go to the doc just for your own peace of mind. It can't hurt. And not to feed the baby fever, but even with the negative pregnancy test, it might not be over. Everyone is different and some people take a long while to test positive on the urine test, even after implantation.

Fingers crossed for y'all...
I don't want to knock La Leche, but my only experience with them was reading their website (which has some crazy elements) and via my poor friend who was told by a La Leche leader that real mothers earned their strength by delivering vaginally (my friend had to have a C-section). This was also said while the woman was breastfeeding her SEVEN YEAR OLD SON.

Okay, it's a choice thing, I get that, but there is a sense of religious fervor that I've seen associated with La Leche material that makes me a little nervous.

Julie, when you get your hospital, you may want to call and see if there's a lactation consultant you can talk to who could suggest a better book. Bottom line, you are need to do what works for you and your kid, not for anyone else. I've had friends who have breastfed and who haven't...ultimately, you can't tell someone else what to do.

My mom is a huge proponent of breastfeeding, and she nursed all of us until we were at least 12 months. My brother turned out to be one of the sickliest kids ever (of course she always maintains he would have been sicker if she hadn't breastfed), so....who knows.

Bottom line, do what works for you and your kid! And try to call some lactation consultants. :-)
Ugh, this morning was wretched with the feeding. Fallon was so so so cranky I ended up just going straight for the bottle. Not to mention her chowing down an entire bottle AFTER feeding for 30 minutes last night. I had a bit of a cry about it this morning while she was crying - I feel like crap that I can't do this easily.

But I just managed to express 100ml! Easily! So I think my milk has come in good and proper which might make things easier. Not to mention expressing seems to be helping with the flat nipples. But yeah, so not the 'easy' or 'natural' thing. And DO NOT believe people who say babies don't need to learn, it's instinctive, only mothers need to learnt to breastfeed. Fallon STILL jams her hand in her mouth while she's latched and hasn't worked out that doing that will stop the feed. I had an awesome lactation consultant in hospital (as in expressing was fine, pain while feeding was not) but I have't come across any awesome books. And it is so freaking annoying to get that spiel about breastfeeding with any information - you want information, not a pre-emptive guilt trip.

She's beautiful though. I have to put little mittens on her and this morning while Mr A was feeding her he was telling her she's not a robot - she flails her little arms around all the time. She looks like she's doing karate sometimes.
Oh, if you want support, go hit up some older mums who have done it. My mum had almost all the same issues I do, so she's been great for the support and ideas to try. Avoid the 'oh it was perfect from the start' people and the 'I breastfed with bleeding and infected nipples in excruciating pain BECAUSE IT'S THE BEST FOR THE CHILD' people. There are normal people breastfeeding, with normal issues and tolerances.

But that c-section thing is a shitty thing to say or believe. Two of the mums expressing while Fallon and I were in the nursery had emergency c-sections and both were feeding/expressing better than me with my vaginal birth (and massive massive child compared to theirs!). Even the mum who has JUST had surgery the day before was doing brilliantly.
Hi everyone.

I swear I've never thought of my computer as a friend before, but that's exactly how I feel after a long day when I boot her up and come to the lounge.

Julie, when I was a journalist working in Toronto, there was a BIG caffuffle about Dr. Jack Newman loosing his space at a local hospital. People staged "nurse-ins" and stuff to protest the funding cuts that would see him have to move out of the hospital and open a private practice. He is considered to be one of the world's most innovative and knowledgeable lactation doctors and his partner, can't remember her name is phenomenal as well. I know he has written books, and I know that he or his assistant actually answer emails from mothers, mothers to be etc. The website is: Since I've never been down this road yet, I can only tell you that he seems to be highly regarded by the community that has, and I didn't get the impression he was dogmatic about things working exactly the same for every woman. Also, congrats on the echo and screening results. Must be such a relief to be past those. Is it you who plans on sharing her big news on July 4? It's coming soon! Do you have anything planned in terms of how you're going to tell everyone?

Ananke, I'm so sorry for all the emotional turmoil you've been experiencing in this early phase of motherhood. I'm sure having to rush Fallon to the hospital felt like just another obstacle. Know that while some women will swear up and down that breast feeding was easy and their baby never had any jaundice ... they are either lying or in an incredible minority. I too have heard that breast feeding rarely happens like some happy rainbow diving into a pot of gold with hearts blowing out your nipples. Do what works for you and screw anyone else and their unsolicited advice. I am really glad to hear that Fallon is home from the hospital and doing well. I especially like the visual of her robot-karate moves.

Michelina, you must be relieved about making it to the 12 days. I've always read that anything over 10 days means things are looking pretty good. I agree with the others that for your peace of mind, it wouldn't hurt anything to bring it up with your doctor and get a medical opinion.

Zelda ... I think we both had great timing this month! I know how long this two week wait can be. My official blood test date is July 6, but my 14 days is July 4, so I'm going to test at home that day if I'm still period free. The progesterone suppositories are making me so BLOATED it's crazy, but it's a small price to pay. No other side effects from it otherwise. Saw my naturopath yesterday for a some acupuncture. She did some points on the backs of my toes, where they meet the foot. Yikes! Talk about painful. Wowsie. She said those are the most painful points but that they are the ones that get the blood flowing to the uterus. So between that and the progesterone and the awesome timing I'm allowing myself some high hopes.

Just a quick update as I don't have much time. I did get my period yesterday, complete with cramps. :-( I booked an appointment with the doctor for July 6. It feels better just having the appointment scheduled. Thanks for everyone's reassurance that seeing my doctor is a good idea.

I'll be back later!
zelda hiss on the period...yay! on making the doctor's appointment. I think you are going to feel so much better when you go and get some answers. Are you going to bring your charts? It seems like you made it to 12 dpo, right?

I am really glad you are getting in to see her/him. I just know it will make you feel like you are taking a step in the right direction.

I know plenty of moms who had c-sections and breastfed. A number of them are busties! Me, I didn't want to breastfeed anyway, and the c-section gave me "cover" as it were.

Thanks for the suggestions....I will definitely check out Dr. Newman's books and I'm pretty sure my hospital has lactation consultants that come to visit after the birth, so that should be good too. My hospital offers a breastfeeding class which I think I might take too...just to kind of get the basics. I suspect that even with the background knowledge it's kind of like driving a car in that you just have to DO it to learn how to do it. But having a knowledgable person to help you I'm sure is huge. My college roommate is a postpartum doula so I might ask her advice too.

Yeah, far from easy or natural. I just remembered seeing my sister-in-law in the days after my oldest niece was was so frustrating for her because it was NOT easy for mom or baby getting the hang of it. Not to mention that my niece had a habit of falling asleep while nursing and then would lose the latch and they'd have to start over. I remembered thinking that if my sis-in-law was having trouble - and she is awesome and had done a lot of preparation - this was clearly not the walk in the park it was sometimes advertised to be.

Michelina, I'm so sorry about your period but glad you're seeing the doc.

Fookie, I think jenny is the one who was planning to spill the beans on July 4. I myself have been blabbing my news to folks for weeks now. Funny story: today I ran into my next-door neighbor at a conference and told her (since we hadn't run into each other in the yard recently), and found out she's pregnant too! So our babies can be playmates.

I do get to find out the sex on July 9 - that is, if baby cooperates. I'm trying to remind myself that the important thing is that baby looks healthy and that finding out the sex is just a fun side benefit. But I'm kind of excited to start thinking of he/she as EITHER he or she. People keep asking if I "have a feeling" what sex the baby is, and honestly I am totally confused. Some days I find myself thinking of the baby as "her," and for a couple of weeks I was convinced it was a boy, but I honestly have no idea.

Still crossing my fingers for zelda and Fookie....
I used to think I didn't want to know the gender, but watching my BFF be able to plan in terms of clothing does make a difference...I don't want to dress a girl in crazy frou frou crap, but let me tell you, as soon as she found out she was having a girl, she was getting a ton of FREE shit from parents of girls.

Mr. Z definitely doesn't want to know the gender.

The other reason I can see wanting to know (I think I've said this before here), is that both of us want a girl. When I think of us as parents, I think of us with a daughter. It might take some rearranging in our brains to picture us with a son, and finding out ahead of time would help give us that time for rearranging...of course I would be happy with either! Who knows what we will do...WHEN we get pregnant. (I've started saying that instead of "if" in order to be more hopeful.)

I am 6 or 7 dpo with no symptoms except lots of creamy CM. I think it is still probably too early for implantation, so I am still crossing fingers.
Okay, so this is the absolute worst time...worse even then taking the OPK tests and worrying about timing...just sitting around, wondering if this could be the one. ARGH. I hate it! I start Googling things like "When do pregnancy symptoms start?" and shit like that. Because it is around this time that I know they could start if I indeed am pregnant...of course I know maybe they won't start even if I am until after I miss my period. And then I think, "Oh, I'm going to get my period again," and just start to feel so defeated.

I just want this so badly. I really do not want to be disappointed again. I feel like our timing was so good and so was our frequency of doin' it...although I know that can't promise me anything.

Sorry...venting. Being home during the summer gives me too much time on my hands, even with my freelance work.
Hi Zelda,

Just wanted to jump in and give you some support (or at least let you know you're not alone and I'm going through the same range of emotions.). Arggh. Isn't it the WORST? I try not to let myself get worked up at all during the first week because I know my second week will be hell anyway. I'm six days passed ovulation, so we're totally on the same schedule (for some reason I thought you were two or three days ahead of me). Next week my partner is away on a canoeing/portaging trip with his two best friends ... for the ENTIRE week. I will be peeing on a stick before he gets home. Awesome if it's positive b/c then I can have the glow to myself for a bit, and some time to plan some sort of fabulous surprise announcement for him ... but totally will suck if it's negative and I'm alone. Blah. I say treat yourself to fun lunches, buy a fancy umbrella and a new pair of shoes. Book time with friends, read books about horrible children, ride roller coasters, jump on trampolines and eat chocolate and ice cream in copious amounts. Make the next seven days the best seven days of being not-pregnant ever! This way if you are pregnant, then you've done all the stuff you might not do as much of once you get the positive, and if you're not, you have a recent reminder of why not being pregnant doesn't have to be totally horrible.

good luck not going batty. i know i'm going to need it!
Hello All,
I'm new to the lounge (sort of- I've been reading on the DL for a little while) but a loyal subscriber to Bust for several years. I'm so glad to find others who are like-minded who are trying to get the baby in the belly. I've been feeling like I don't have anyone to commiserate with. Mr. Y and I are on our fifth month of trying officially. There were a few other cycles were we didn't try not to get pregnant, if you know what I mean. I'm currently in my 2ww-it's a nasty time. Anyway, just wanted to say 'hi.'
Welcome yumyum...we do not advocate the use of baby dust, and if you use the term "baby dance" in any way except ironically, you will be banned from this thread. ;-)

Basically, welcome to a likeminded group of women. My husband and I have been trying for about that same amount of time, and I'm also in the 2ww and it suuuuuucks. Especially right now, after the first week, when I'm just praying for a bit of nausea or implantation bleeding or sooooomething that will give me hope. Sigh.

Fookie, thanks for the kind words. At least I can distract myself with all this Michael Jackson coverage!!! wink.gif

Tomorrow I'm going to the museum and to see Away We Go...not sure if that's the right movie to watch when I want a baby, but...
Yumyum, welcome! My husband and I have also been trying for roughly the same amount of time - 5 months now. We are onto our 6th month trying soon. What a rollercoaster, this process! It is always great to have another Bustie join in on the discussion.

Zelda, how are you doing now? I know that feeling of "please, just let me be pregnant!" And the searching for a sign that can drive one mad. Glad to hear you have some distractions. I am glad that you and Fookie (and now Yumyum) are in the 2WW together. Makes it a little easier when you can commiserate.

Fookie, I LOVED your list of distractions. Your suggestion to read about horrible children made me laugh. Thanks. :-) Sorry to hear Mr F will be away when you find out, but like you say, if it's good news, it will make it all that more special!

Julie, when will you be starting your breastfeeding class? Sounds like a good idea. And great to have an aquaintance who is a doula. That could be very handy. If you find out the sex, will you be sharing it with people? A friend of mine found out, but kept it secret. I personally don't think I would be able to keep that in, or would at least slip up at some point!

We are done moving and in our house now. It feels wonderful to have so much new space. I just hope that I can keep focussed on this being for us, and not for a baby (as wonderful as it would be to change one of the spare rooms into a nursery.) I reminded myself lately that this is my first year of marriage. I don't want to spend it feeling sad and disappointed because there is no pregnancy. I am going to really try to focus on the positives now - new place to live, road trip this summer, and seeing friends over the summer.
Well, I sort of wish I hadn't seen Away We Go today...I thought it would be a pleasant distraction. I mean, I obviously knew it was about a pregnant woman, but that is not what upset me. I don't want to give anything away in case any of you want to see it, but there is a subplot involving other characters, and if you've been ttc for a while, it may not be the easiest scene to watch.

I called my mom upset after the movie...she told me that she had just been talking to my aunt, and my aunt had mentioned that it took her a year to get pregnant with their second mom never knew that. That made me feel better.

At any rate, it was a sweet film, and I'm glad I saw it in general, but just a heads up for you ttc ladies...

I also went to the museum and out to lunch and read...a nice day alone that helped distract me.
Thanks for the welcome ladies. I never imagined trying to get pregnant would be so stressful and take this long. I know it hasn't been that long in the scheme of things but I've had baby fever for quite a while now and I was hoping to get pregnant within the first few months of trying. My problem is that I'm impatient- when I'm ready for something, I'm ready. I'm also neurotic so of course I assume that one or both of us must be infertile since it hasn't happened yet.

So far this 2ww hasn't been terrible b/c I've been pretty busy but I think I have a cold now, so I'm kinda feeling pissy. I promise I won't always be a storm cloud (but I probably will be pretty often b/c aside from Mr. Y, I don't feel comfortable talking to most about this stuff). : (

Zelda- I want to see Away We Go, but maybe I'll wait until I'm feeling a little more positive. Glad to hear you had a good day and kept yourself busy.
yumyum, I certainly don't want to speak for all of the women trying to conceive on this thread, but you are in good company. I'm pretty neurotic myself...and I'll be totally honest and admit that when we started trying in February, I didn't doubt for a second that I would be pregnant by now (the best laid plans...).

Please come vent anytime. I worry about infertility, too...we're committed to trying for at least a year before really starting to panic...but I know how frustrating the whole process can be.

Welcome Yumyum!

Zelda can definitely speak for me .... NEUROTIC!!!! All this waiting breeds it, that's for sure. I'm sure your positive test is just around the corner, though so don't lose faith. All will be well.

I'm entering day 8 of my two week wait. Six more days of this. Baaaaaaaaaaaah. It is beautiful today where I live and I think some ice cream is definitely in order. I've got a great book going, a comfy lounge chair in the backyard and some lemonade waiting for me. Tomorrow it's supposed to rain all day and I've got some curtains to shorten, some vacuuming to do and grocery shopping. I have a pub night (it's more about the half-price appetizers than the boos, so don't feel too sorry for me) on Tuesday ... but aside from that the week will be LOOOOONG. I'm planning on working some overtime just to distract myself.

Have a great weekend Busties.

I am on day 9 of my two week wait, Fookie!

I, too, have some distractions planned for the next few days...

I am having zero symptoms other than two gigantic zits on my cheeks in a space where I never get zits. How crazy is it that I am hoping that is a symptom???

Have a lovely weekend Fookie and everyone else!
I went to an art fair today- that was entertaining and I got a few nice prints. Still feel like I have a cold. I'm busy trying not to think about my boobies- I'm always on the alert for symptoms even when I say I'm not. They're slightly sore if I press on them but they feel less sore than they did a few days ago. I've been extra tired lately but I think that's due to the heat (it's 91 where I live) and having the sickies. Today is P.O. day 10 or 11.

I do have some things to do this evening and tomorrow to take up my time. I have to finish a paper tonight and do another assignment tomorrow (I just started grad school which has helped so much to keep my mind preoccupied), we need to do our grocery shopping for the week and we have a netflix movie laying around that we really need to watch. Has anyone seen "La Vie en Rose"?

What do you all think about consuming alcohol (1-2 beers/week) during the 2ww? When we first started trying, I was pretty uptight but now I will drink a beer if I feel like it. I was a "surprise" baby for my parents so I'm sure I was exposed to a little bit of something. I think if human development was that sensitive, a lot of us wouldn't be alive or know how to tie our shoelaces. Well, I do wear flipflops alot, hmmm.....

Okay, I must get to work- have a lovely weekend all!!!
I loved La Vie en Rose, yumyum!

I am the same way with you and the symptoms. Just moments ago I was sitting on my couch pressing on my boobs and wondering if they were sore. Good grief.

I've been drinking during my 2 week waits. At first I was worried, but when I realized it wasn't going to happen right away I was like, the Hell with it. I don't drink every day, and I don't drink to excess...and I stick to light beer...but I don't think there's any worry associated with it. From what I understand, the embryo doesn't even begin to take nutrients from the mother until you at least miss your period if not until a few weeks after that...

I am taking a prenatal, but I am drinking.

A friend at work was telling me about a former coworker who was ttc and was obsessing about not drinking, not eating soft cheese, etc. etc. And she wasn't getting pregnant. When she gave up on all of that and started behaving normally, she got pregnant...on the 12th month of trying to conceive.

I want to believe this is the month, but I just don't feel it. I keep thinking somehow I will "know" even though I think that's probably ridiculous.

Hopefully between me, yumyum, and Fookie, at least one of us will have a positive pregnancy test this month!!!!
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