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I must agree that Hillary is too polarizing. I've never quite understood why the right hates her so much, but they loathe her with a passion that burns hotter than a thousand suns. Once upon a time, my husband got something in the mail from the NRA (which is a bizarre story in itself) and in that letter, they urged him to join & specifically pointed out that liberals like Hillary Clinton were trying to take away their guns. But why do they mention Hillary? Why not Al Gore or John Kerry or even Ted Kennedy? Because - for whatever reason - the people on the far right hate Hillary more than any other Democrat. And because of that, I just can't see middle America voting for her.
I think they feel threatened by her. I think she's really smart and has gained a lot of power and they know it. I admire her for that. She's overcome the Bill scandal to come into her own...I just don't think she'd make a good president.

Before Gerald Ford died, I didn't know a whole lot about him- I vaguely remembered hearing waaaay back in school that he'd pardoned Nixon. I think at that time I didn't understand why, but when he died and people were talking about his presidency, and the Nixon thing, it made sense that he needed to do it to help the country move on and bring people together to make the most of his time in office. After everything that Bushyhead has put us through, all of his divisive measures to distract us from the war, we need a president who is smart enough to clean up the mess that Bush will inevitably leave behind and to bring us together to worry about what really matters, not gay marriage (not that it doesn't matter, but Bush has turned it into a moral issue when it's not- it's a human rights issue and if it were presented as such it's a lot less arguable), not immigration, etc. I think Hillary in office will only push people apart more.
QUOTE(lucizoe @ Jan 21 2007, 02:34 AM) *

You know what I find really telling about this whole lil' flurry of announcements and speculation? Across the progressive news sites and blogs, supposedly progressive people are assuming that Senator Clinton would draw the vote of every woman in America, regardless of political affiliation, just 'cause she's a woman. I find that so patronizing and insulting.

I absolutely respect the success of every woman in politics - it's the biggest boys' club there is in America and I imagine you have to practically spit nails to be taken seriously. Brava to them all
Which is depressing. Frankly, I have never believed I would see a woman president in my lifetime, and I still believe that. Not when there are 535 members of Congress and only 74 of those are female. Just not seeing that happening.

I think you hit the nail on the head w/ your line about assuming ALL women would vote for her.
there are a lot of women who out & out just don't like her period (I for one took issue w/ her whole bill-scandal thing & it made me question her own sense of self & all but again, that's just a wee small part of it)
and wouldn't vote for her, Gender Be Damned.
whereas a lot of men, again, good old boys club, won't vote for her BC SHE IS A WOMAN, negating party loyalites and all, bc they are threatened by a woman of her power and initive. better to have a man from the other side, Any Other Side, in office than to let a skirt where she doesn't belong.
way, Way too threatening indeed.

my daughter & I, w/ her bringing it up tonight ( yah!) talked about this last night and how the " rich white men's club aka The' Man" was not going to let go of their place willingly and how our country, as progressive and free as we oft times overly think it to be, is way past due for a shakeup. I was so crazi proud of her for asking questions about how race ( then I threw in gender) would play into it. she was really into the idea of CHANGE and is starting to get why it's desperately needed. I think she's finally catching on to what I've been preaching about all these years, altho, she's still not that excited about us campainging.. yet!

and kickit, tho I know a lot here have you on Ignore now, I have to disagree w/ you on something you said in your reply to me (thanks for it): I actually feel just the opposite about the world accepting a woman President here moreso than one of ethnicity. look at the governing heads of state around the globe.
you may see some higher ranking women here and there, but then take a look beyond to the skin colors+ Gender of the ones actually in power. while we may be behind in the # of women holding political office overall, those are space-holding places essentially, and again, very very few women (aside from one in Africa I believe) are in actual Top Office.
QUOTE(freckleface2727 @ Jan 20 2007, 08:02 PM) *

I do not honestly know mccain's stance on abortion, but for a Rep, he's mighty liberal sometimes, so if he were For it would not suprise me. as to him pandering to Bush.. I don't see it, but then perception is what it's all about.

Screw. McCain. To have lived through torture and then go and support it? Seriously, his bs conservative, republican pandering can send him straight to hell. He has lost ALL credibility in my book.

Condi is the devil incarnate. I can't see anyone supporting ANY member of this current administration. Evil, evil, people.
you know, I just looked up mccain's site and his stance on traditional marriage is pretty frightening to me.
- should I be suprised? no, but it still was a disappointment. I was just railing about this issue in the 'mama's of not so wee ones' thread last week bc of frecklette's sex ed class and how it was drilled into their heads it was the ONLY way.
I abhore discrimination of any kind, excepting maybe of sexual predators and that is an issue of tougher laws needed rather than discrimination.

so I don't know now.

does anyone know much about giuliani?

my mind is pretty open to starting from scratch now.
ggg, I agree with everyone from the current administration being tainted! My only hope is that Chenney doen't make a run. I'm also praying that the Bush legacy dies with GW and his a-hole brother Jeb doesn't take a stab at the White House.

I remember years ago there were rumors of Elizabeth Dole possibly running, which I thought would have been fabulous. Since she is very different from her husband.

I really would love to see Al Gore as president. He is such an amazing compassionate person. But I think he'll always be a bit of a political underdog.

Edwards seems like a really down to earth person. But I am surprised to hear him considering since with his last run with Kerry he took a second mortgage on his house and came close to loosing everything. But I respect him for that.
Hell, why would Cheney run? He & Halliburton haved raped the taxpayers enough in the past eight years that I'm sure he'll retire fat & happy like a tick.
Giuliani's post 9/11 compassionate performance probably lulled a lot of americans outside of NYC into thinking he's a great guy, but he's cut from the same elitest neo-con cloth as the current administration...I hope people don't forget that in "cleaning up" NYC, he banished the homeless, as well as low income working families, and used policy to essentially expel them from the city. Maude help us if he's the nominee.

I too, would love it if Gore would Run...or be a VP candidate. Gore + anyone seems like a pretty good ticket to me.
Like my bumpersticker says, "Cheney/Voldemort '08" laugh.gif

I think Cheney would drop dead before the inauguration from the stress- he's had, what, four heart attacks now? Hmm, depending on who he picked for his VP that might not be a bad thing.....I'm sure it would be some ass, though.

What did Cheney do before he was VP? Just curious and too lazy to look it up!
cheney to me is a non-issue.
he's just like, colorless to me as a, well, anything.

thanks for the info turbo, like I said, I don't know anything about him and haven't kept up w/ his politics but I don't know about the " ____ + anyone" idea.. bc I think the next presidency is going to see more of an assertive power shift for the office of vp, afer cheney's been one fiasco after another.
pollystyrene: since 1995, Cheney was halliburton's CEO as well as chairman of the supervisory board.

i read an artical today quoting that 41% of the democrats support clinton's candidateship, with 17% in favour of barack and 11% for edwards.

i'm pretty sure that barack won't make it, bc he's a junior senetor. it seems to me that he is one of those guys who people talk about a lot bc it's an interesting idea to think about him as president of the united states, altough his chances to be acually nominated are minor. --- but on the other hand: what do i know?

you may see some higher ranking women here and there, but then take a look beyond to the skin colors+ Gender of the ones actually in power. while we may be behind in the # of women holding political office overall, those are space-holding places essentially, and again, very very few women (aside from one in Africa I believe) are in actual Top Office

(this one was from freckleface2727)

i can not help picturing Hillary Clinton, germany's chancellor Angela Merkel and france's possible new president Ségolène Royal together on a group photograph during a big international summit. that'd be impressing, would'nt it?

Angela Merkel is germany's head of government since 2006 (to be strict, it's not the official top office, as we have a president, but the german president has nothing to say. it's no power position and totally representative... like the british Queen but without a crown). unfortunately, she's a member of the christian conservative party.

Ségolène Royal on the other hand is the socialist's party's candidate for the french presidency. the election takes place in april and may this year. she is one of the two most promising candidates. presently, polls are 50:50 for her and her right-wing adversary Nicolas Sarkozy.

so, just a not-so-short glance from my perspective. it's really interesting to follow your discussion here and see what american busties are thinking about Hillary, Barack and all the other candidates.
Dick Cheney has been flitting around the neocon political scene since 1969 (he never served in the military, despite being entirely pro-war), when he interned on Nixon's staff. He's a bully, as illustrated by his and Rumsfeld's strong-arming of the Ford cabinet in order to fire Kissinger as defense secretary and install Rumsfeld instead. His disdain for the middle class and public education (voted against forming the department of ed; against Head Start (a position he, um, flip-flopped on when it came time to run for VP); propping up of the coal and petroleum Halliburton CEO moved substantial portions of profits into offshore tax shelters, in a pretty usual move by large corporations to avoid their responsibilities to the American people.

Like much of the White House staff, Cheney was buddies with Bush I and Nixon and was Bush's sect'y of defense from 1989 until Clinton's inaugaration in 1993. Paul Wolfowitz, James Baker, Colin Powell, Rumsfeld - they're all Bush's daddy's buddies, and they should all be in prison.

Basically, he's just a nasty, worship-at-the-altar-of-the-almighty-dollar sort of bastard. I think my two favorite episodes are his very polite exchange with Senator Leahy, in which he ordered the man to "Go fuck yourself" and allegedly drunkenly shooting his friend in the face. Of course, his two youthful DWIs (and his attempts to suppress the story and not submit to a breathalyzer until the next freaking day) make me think the dude was trashed.
QUOTE(turbojenn @ Jan 21 2007, 10:17 PM) *

Giuliani's post 9/11 compassionate performance probably lulled a lot of americans outside of NYC into thinking he's a great guy, but he's cut from the same elitest neo-con cloth as the current administration...I hope people don't forget that in "cleaning up" NYC, he banished the homeless, as well as low income working families, and used policy to essentially expel them from the city. Maude help us if he's the nominee.
I too, would love it if Gore would Run...or be a VP candidate. Gore + anyone seems like a pretty good ticket to me.

I remember that. Seriously who does that? Homelessness is a crime, but not one to be prosecuted.

I love how people canonize a person for DOING THEIR JOB after a tragedy.
"He handled 911 so well and was so comapsionate." Duh, he's the fucking mayor. That is what he is supposed to do.
QUOTE(girlygirlgag @ Jan 22 2007, 12:58 PM) *

I remember that. Seriously who does that? Homelessness is a crime, but not one to be prosecuted.

I love how people canonize a person for DOING THEIR JOB after a tragedy.
"He handled 911 so well and was so comapsionate." Duh, he's the fucking mayor. That is what he is supposed to do.

yes but compare him to ray nagin of NO?
he gets the saint of the year award in my book. that man is a moron and I am still floored he was re elected.

good points made. I lived in germany for a few years but do not recall much of their political system altho I did try to follow the last election where angela merkel was elected.
Toddler's Temper Ousts Family From Plane

ORLANDO, Fla. (Jan. 23) - AirTran Airways on Tuesday defended its decision to remove a Massachusetts couple from a flight after their crying 3-year-old daughter refused to take her seat before takeoff.

AirTran officials said they followed Federal Aviation Administration rules that children age 2 and above must have their own seat and be wearing a seat belt upon takeoff.

"The flight was already delayed 15 minutes and in fairness to the other 112 passengers on the plane, the crew made an operational decision to remove the family," AirTran spokeswoman Judy Graham-Weaver said.

Julie and Gerry Kulesza, who were headed home to Boston on Jan. 14 from Fort Myers, said they just needed a little more time to calm their daughter, Elly.

"We weren't given an opportunity to hold her, console her or anything," Julie Kulesza said in a telephone interview Tuesday.
The Kuleszas said they told a flight attendant they had paid for their daughter's seat, but asked whether she could sit in her mother's lap. The request was denied.

She was removed because "she was climbing under the seat and hitting the parents and wouldn't get in her seat" during boarding, Graham-Weaver said.

The Orlando-based carrier reimbursed the family $595.80, the cost of the three tickets, and the Kuleszas flew home the next day.

They also were offered three roundtrip tickets anywhere the airline flies, Graham-Weaver said.

The father said his family would never fly AirTran again.

now there's a Loss - Not!

== stands an applauds AirTran==
in fact, I think I will send them an email of support!
I hate seeing parents/guardians who cannot control their child(ren). Air Tran was right for removing them and I hope that these parents learn how to properly handle their daughter when she throws her next tantrum.

I knew I'd see this story on here!!
WORD! Early on my folks made sure I knew how to act in public. One look from my dad & I wasn't fucking up, no way, no how. Some parents don't realize that *they* are the ones in charge. "But Stacy is only expressing herself!" Just cos Stacy needs to express herself doesn't mean that I have to be late to my connecting flight!

I had a cousin that couldn't be taken out in public when it was his mother & myself without him causing a big scene & then his mom making it worse by publicly beating him in the grocer's, Walmart, the mall, etc. But when he went to dinner with me & my folks he was the most polite little kid you ever saw. When my Grandad took us Xmas shopping he behaved, but cos his mom let him get away with it he played it to the hilt every time. The flip side, I have three other cousins that were afraid to go to the bathroom in public because my Auntie would haul them in & beat them to within an inch of their lives for the most minor of transgressions.

This is why I have cats. I may have a box of shit in my house, but when I travel they are in a cage & sedated, not screaming & causing havoc.

Another tidbit: I was flying from Denver to Nashville. It was a packed flight. The seat next to me was empty & I'd crossed all available appendages that it stay so. Right before the flight closed, a lady with a baby got on. I knew she was seated with me & I knew she was *THAT* lady. The lady that had never flown before that was all excited & wanted to talk. In went the earbuds, out came the book. The baby was quiet, but kept grabbing at my hair, my clothes, & my earbuds. I could live with that, it was a baby. A GOOD baby. Last forty-five minutes of the flight, she started to get fussy. Mom gets up to take the baby to the bathroom, comes back ninety seconds later & exclaims, "There wasn't a changing table in there!" Well, duh. Just because you chose to reproduce doesn't mean the world bows to you.
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Jan 23 2007, 11:31 PM) *

Mom gets up to take the baby to the bathroom, comes back ninety seconds later & exclaims, "There wasn't a changing table in there!" Well, duh. Just because you chose to reproduce doesn't mean the world bows to you.

What does she think people did before most public bathrooms had changing tables?

Did she change it on the seat, next to you? Ick. Nothing worse than a stranger's baby being changed next to you.

We're talking about this in the CBC thread, too.
y'all know I am a mama, but no WAY would I have ever allowed that to happen!

frecklette had her first international flight at a mere 6 weeks of age, and they had screwed up our tix so the mr sat down first at the front of the plane, and we took the very Last seats in the back. there I am w/ frecklette in her huge carrier, an enormous backback strapped to my back, and a large diaper bag too ( I was packin' frozen breast milk for the trip) and a full to the top flight.
I honestly think I managed to hit every-single-person-on-our-way-to-our -seats by the time we got back there. "pardon me. SORRY! 'Excuse me=SORRY!!" it was absolutely mortifying! but then wee freck was good as gold the duration and when we landed everyone stayed seated and let me exit first w/ a lot of help w/ all I was carrying. ( I was way steamed at the mr by then, tho it wasn't his fault in the first place) I know what traveling w/ a child can be like, but honestly, there are ways of making it less awful than those parents and their lame-ass excuses.

Parent your dam* kids already! (bc you're not doing them -or-Society any favors for the future!)

ap- hysterical about your cousins & the fear of bathrooms. sad sort of, but how often did she actually have to do it before it became purely psychological?

and yah wombat- did ya really think I'd let that headline pass by?! laugh.gif
I am very impressed with the airline. I have been fortunate enough in my flying expeditions to not have any children on flight. Also the reason I am going to fly first class when I go to England. Unfortunately my experiences in buses and other public places. Not so great...

I used to work in retail, and I am not a baby sitter. Take care of your own damn kids, I was not getting paid nearly enough to take care of brats.

These parents also have to realize that their child was not behaving properly and it was a safety issue.
c h, I worked retail for years and years too, but I don't think that's the reason I don't like kids.. I just never have. (mine and few friends kids excepted to that).

I did write to AirTran last night, thanking them for upholding FAA guildlines and for respecting the time of the other passengers onboard. and I also told them that while they may have lost that one particular family as customers, they have gained probably many more for doing the right thing.
I believe I also used words like ' it's about time parents got control of their mini-monsters and stopped being afraid to Parent them too.'

I wanna fly first class... I always go steerage . sad.gif
I'm sorry, I just don't get it; you pick up the kid -screaming and kicking or not- and belt it in the bloody seat. I don't understand parents who pander to their child(ren) and/or try to pacify them when they are being a brat; discipline, people!

pssst, freckle, how did your book group go?
last year I was friends w/ a woman who had twin toddlers, a boy and a girl.
this in and of itself is unusual as I usually run away screaming from anyone w/ ankle-biting offspring to start with, but I digress..

we were friends in the duration of the year our mr's were deployed to iraq and really got along well. she was very intelligent and witty and the kids, for the most part, were cute too and frecklette enjoyed playing the part of a Mother's Helper,which lessened the annoyance factor for me at the same time.

and so, I broke my own golden rule of " I don't so don't ask." and often babysat for her.
it was in this time the twins dove head-1st into their Terrible 2's. the most gosh-awful tantrums I've ever seen in my life (frecklette was really an amazing wee small child at that age, something I am paying for now in her early teens! rolleyes.gif ) but still I soldiered on bc she- was- my-friend.

well AUNTIE'S way of dealing w/ tantrums is time out. ( as opposed to my actual Instincts which were to beat the holy lovin' Snot out of them, you'd really think she'd have appreciated that...) and when the wailing got to ear-shattering decibles, it was time out in their bedrooms, door open, but still seperate til they were through. (they were actually age 3 - 3.5 now that I think about it, bc they were also potty training).

I watched those children more times than I can count. watched them on their mother's 1st day of work bc 1 was sick and they couldn't go to the regular sitter so this woman didn't have to miss her very 1st day of Teaching High School (ironic huh), watched them after I had a horribly painful out-patient procedure done and all I wanted was to curl up into a coma at home ,over and over again, there I was for her and her kids.

end story, when I chewed her out for coming back HOURS later than she had said once, and regaled her w/ how Monsterous they had been and the time-outs given, she got mad and said in a huff "time out is not how I deal w/ their behavior and I wish you hadn't been doing that!"

needless to say I never sat for her again nor was I friendly w/ her any longer either.
last I heard both kids (now nearly 5) put on a real spectacle the last time they were at her mr's workplace, kicking, screaming and jumping on all the furniture while she pretty much did nothing.

that's what you get and That's Why I am so Anti-Kid! what a reminder of what I had already known.

I picture those kids in the place of the 3 yr old girl and think Rock ON !! to the airline all over again.

= sorry to ramble!=

psst bunnby: it went great! thanks for asking! smile.gif
I work in a retail location that has pegs almost down to the floor on every wall for our merchandise. Each wall has a metal, I don't know what you'd call it-sort of a foot board, that comes out several inches past the length of the pegs. I've always hated when parents let their small children run zooming around the place because A: they'll take all the merch off the pegs they can reach and scatter it around making a mess, or B: they run straight into the foot board thing and trip.

A few years ago a toddler at this location actually did run into the foot board and fell headfirst into the pegs on the wall, driving one into his head. What really pisses me off is when I tell parents now about what happened so they know the danger and *hopefully* keep their kids from doing the same thing, they give ME dirty looks like I'm hoping it'll happen to their kids instead of trying to prevent it!

And at most they'll call their kid to their side for a few seconds, and then ignore them so they're off running about again. I swear these kids make it to adulthood by sheer chance.
Freckle, with discount airlines, like Zip, there is no first class, but if I'm taking a trip overseas, I can't sit on a plane for hours with squished legs. Thank goodness for aeroplan miles.
I've never heard of Zip, but I think my days of international travel are done, at least for now.
once, just once I'd like go 1st class...

I got a response from AirTran today (!!) and this is what they had to say:

Dear F.F. ,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and comments with us. AirTran Airways appreciates you taking the time to let us know that you support the decision made by our flight crew.

Our company has spoken to this family, thoroughly addressing this matter with them as well as with the employees involved in the decision to remove the child from the scheduled flight.

We do regret that this incident escalated to the point of having to remove the child from the flight, as our objective is to allow our customers to reach their destinations as scheduled. Our company is constantly reviewing comments from our customers to improve our future performance and this matter will certainly be included in those efforts.

Your continued support is important to us. We hope to have an opportunity in the future to serve your travel needs.
Brice Salley
AirTran Airways
Customer Relations

--- Original Message ---


COMMENTS I normally don't contact companies like this, but I have to commend you for the removal of the tantrum-throwing toddler on the plane the other day. You may have lost That family, but you have certainly gained others for the act of it. Our society is progressively going to ruin from these mini-monsters who's parents are afraid to parent them, even in the event of saftey concerns. I am now much more inclined to fly with you for upholding FAA requirements and respecting the time of the other passengers aboard. THANKYOU ! F.F.


Freckle, I am so glad you brought up that article and your opinion towards it. I loveand have tons of respect for really responsible parents such as yourself. As a non-parent I am not always big on having other peoples kids around but I have no problem with well manner/behaved kids.

I can't believe the parents mentioned the airline didn't allow them to try to console the tot. I mean how long are the other passengers suppose to be delayed so they can get thier child in check? Like a lot of you, my parents taught us at a very early age what acceptable behavior in public was. Not to mention my mom put together the ultimate activity packs. Coloring books, crayons, word searchs, books, cassettes players with tapes of kids songs, snacks, and everything. It seems like many parents today skip out on stuff like that, and leave thier kids bored. Then wonder well, what can I do? I have tried everything.
I have a hard time believing that they weren't allowed to console the kid- what, did they hold her back or something? Unless for some odd reason they wouldn't the mom (or dad) let her take off her seatbelt, that would be kinda stupid.
So, my new walking client (I walk puppies) leaves CSPAN on all day to have some noise for her dog. (A practice I really don't think the dog appreciates, but whatever). Because this particular dog is new to the city and scared of the noise, and also a mite stubborn, half-hour walks turn into 10 minutes of walkies, 20 minutes of inside playtime, treating me to television, which isn't something I usually watch.

They were talking about this on fucking CSPAN. Aren't people dying in Iraq? Isn't there some major ethnic cleansing happening in Darfur? Aren't women slowly being relegated back to official second-class status in America? Dick Cheney is thisclose to indictment, yes? (Or at least he should be - and would be - if he wasn't licking Satan's ass in exchange for immunity from justice and nine hundred years of life). Why in the holy fuck is there a national fucking dialogue about some over-indulgent, ineffectual parents and their hell-spawn being thrown off a plane? What?

The child psychologist guest was very sympathetic, opining that the airline should have given the parents more time, or let her sit in their laps (which is, you know, against FAA regulations, and the plane would not have been able to take off at all - but the rules don't apply to parents with shit for brains, now do they?)...insisting that the flight attendants were poorly-trained, etc. It just burned me up and I was really surprised by my anger. They had footage of the family and I wanted to slap every one of them.

That isolated cabin in the woods looks better every day. happier news, "President" Bush inadvertantly revealed his pro-choice stance during the SOTU, courtesy of Feministing: ""In all we do, we must remember that the best health care decisions are made not by government and insurance companies, but by patients and their doctors." Idiot.
it was that the kid was crawling Under the seats and would not / could not be buckled up that was the biggest problem I think, not the crying, screaming or parent punching. (ack ack!)

15 minutes, imo, is more than enough time to subdue/overcome/calm a child, even in that (foreign environment)situation; I mean come on.. it's not as if they were putting her in a straight jacket w/ a hood over her head for peter's sake. it was a Grown Up Chair of her very own. and I am assuming that at least 1 of the parents, if not both, were in the immediate vicinity of her although the article does not actually say that.
I am pretty sure there are rules concerning situations such as that though.

that said, when frecklette & I flew to germany they (once again, sigh) screwed up our tickets and she ended up sitting across the isle from me (I was in 1/2 seats by a window and the man next to me refused to switch so she & I could sit together) at the end of a 4 row middle section.
we held hands across the isle for much of the 9 (?) hour flight bc she was still pretty small, all of 6 I think at the time.
Lucizoe, it's the same thing with all these religious/moral groups getting all fired up about the new Dakota Fanning movie where she gets raped- they're actually trying to get the government to investigate.....shouldn't we be more worried about children who are actually being abused in real life?

I find Dakota Fanning to be a little annoying, but I don't think she's stupid and I don't think the filmmakers exploited her. From what I hear, the rape is basically implied anyway- it's not like she had to even pretend to go through it.

And freckle, I agree 15 mins. is more than enough. I'm sure this is not the first tantrum this kid has thrown and you'd think by the time they're 3, you'd have some strategies worked out. I'd be interested to know if this was the kid's first time on a plane- did they prepare her at all for what was going to happen? Regardless of discipline style, you'd think they'd have told the kid, "okay, this is what's going to happen when we're on the plane."
what annoys me is that the airline gave the family round-trip tickets and, in doing so, did not stick by their stance.

freckle, what an asshat of a man.
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Jan 25 2007, 01:48 AM) *

I'm sure this is not the first tantrum this kid has thrown and you'd think by the time they're 3, you'd have some strategies worked out. I'd be interested to know if this was the kid's first time on a plane- did they prepare her at all for what was going to happen? Regardless of discipline style, you'd think they'd have told the kid, "okay, this is what's going to happen when we're on the plane."

they were flying Back to Boston I think it was, from a trip/vacay to florida, so it can be assumed that they had flown down there. granted yes, flying Can be a little scary, who hasn't had at least one flight w/ a lot of turbulence that made you think scary thoughts.. but again, it's not so much as the kid (altho I do think she must be a terrible brat in reality) as the Parents I put at fault here. all the things that luci said totally. and I saw a clip of the grandmother holding the child, and the Grandmother said something like
"...she's really not a badly behaved little girl for the most part." or something very close to that- really!
sounds as if ole' Gram's there is the only one w/ her head screwed on tight in that gene pool. (betcha the wee girl doesn't like goin' to That Granny's house either, bc she probably makes her behave!)

and yah bunnyb the guy was a jerk, he was also the only other American ( & soldier and we were flying over to join the mr at that) besides us, on the plane. the European man sitting next to my freck on the other hand, the one I was giving death threats w/my eyes at (least he get any ideas there..
was really amazingly sweet with her (his wife was sitting on the other side of him so he was crowded in the middle) and gave her their desserts from dinner and when I had her covered up and she had fallen asleep, ever so carefully once picked up the blanket where it had slipped down and gently tucked her back in.
The parents were totally dishonest in their recap. They insinuated she was only crying, no mention of the squirming out of her seat, punching them, hiding under seats.

Those people should be sterilized.
QUOTE(girlygirlgag @ Jan 25 2007, 02:56 PM) *

Those people should be sterilized.

Yah- what She said! I totally agree. maybe they won't breed again?
we can only hope. bc I'm sure they feel totally WRONGED by all this, and no doubt have the sympathy & outporing of other ninny-witted reproducers such as themselves.

(note to self: you are sounding harsh chica.. better be sure you so Good as to live in the glass house you post this from! )
and now for something different...

Scott Baio has had sex with a lot of hot women
Posted Jan 25th 2007 9:44AM by Bob Sassone

Filed under: Celebrities

Several years ago, a friend and I were sitting around watching a Baywatch repeat and amazed at the fact that Scott Baio had dated half the cast, and we called it "Baiowatch." I'm sure we weren't the first to come up with that moniker, and we weren't the last: the ex-Happy Days star is shopping around an autobiography of his love life, and it has the same title!

For the record, Baio dated Pam Anderson, Nicole Eggert, Heather Locklear, Happy Days/Joanie Loves Chachi costar Erin Moran (who he lost his virginity to), Erika Eleniak, Desperate Housewives star Nicollette Sheridan, Beverly D'Angelo, and Denise Richards. Wow.

Oh, and Liza Minnelli wanted his sperm so she could have a kid.

Several publishers have passed on the book, but Baio is still trying.
how screwed up is this? and suing homeless people for $1 million?! come on!

NYC antiques dealer sues to shoo homeless people away from his shop

NEW YORK (AP) — A New York City antiques dealer has sued four homeless people, seeking to keep them away from his store on a posh shopping street because, he says, they alienate customers and block window displays.
Store owner Karl Kemp also seeks $1 million from the four, named in the lawsuit as John Doe, Bob Doe, John Smith and Jane Doe.

The suit, filed this week, says they can often be found sleeping on the sidewalk, drinking alcoholic beverages and "performing various bodily functions such as urinating and spitting" outside Karl Kemp & Associates on Manhattan's Madison Avenue. Kemp seeks to keep them 100 feet from the store.

Kemp said he decided to sue after complaints to police brought no changes. He also said he was concerned about the health of one of the three men.

"You and I pay taxes in New York City, and some of that is to maintain decent shelters. And he should take advantage of that," Kemp said.

Advocates for the homeless called the lawsuit hardhearted.

"Until we see to it that every single homeless individual has a place to stay, this is our reality," said Shelly Nortz, a deputy executive director of the Coalition for the Homeless.

"The complaint that they somehow occasionally occupy a space that is also home to Gucci and Chanel doesn't mean that they're breaking any law," she said.
"You and I pay taxes in New York City, and some of that is to maintain decent shelters. And he should take advantage of that," Kemp said.

Are there no prisons? Are there no work-houses?
Article about Britain's health system giving drug addicts iPods (and other incentives) for kicking their habit, but denying medication to Alzheimer's and cancer patients that they deem too expensive. WTF?!?!
polly, I wish I could find the words to express my outrage over that article!

And suing homeless people, how disheartening to hear about. Kind of odd that he is so concerned about thier health, yet wants money from them. Has he ever offered them food or a ride shelter, any kind of help?

Scott Baio having lots of woment cracks me up! I saw them taking about that on VH1 or somewhere. I love that he is pushing to publish a book to let people know that he has been around. Too funny.
polly- that is wrong wrong WRONG!
" here's a reward to get you to stop doing something that could kill you....... but hey you over there w/ say.. AIDS, the one who can't afford medicine at all.. you're still out of luck."
such b s!

and the same for the NY thing too!
homelessness shoudln't be considered a crime, it should be considered a national shame.
oh christ, it's the daily mail. the same newspaper who cheerfully blames immigrants/gays/teenagers/anyone who's not white, middle-class oh-i-say-old-chap british for whatever's wrong with "society" today. just... bear it in mind. NICE have been in trouble since day one, and these are just proposals - not actually happening. Here's the guardian article, there's a second one which suggests NICE got thier ideas from schemes in the US. Yes, I think that money needs to be spent on treating life-threatening illnesses, but giving someone a quid for passing a urine test? There are bigger issues.

The homeless thing is just crazy.

Thanks for the more balanced article, mornington- sorry, I have to plead ignorance on the biases of British news sources.

ETA: Found another interesting article....what do y'all think?

Personally, I've intentionally only gone to female gynecologists. Yeah, if I was in labor or having an emergency, I'd take whoever was available. I know that there are good, highly qualified male gyn.'s out there, I just don't feel comfortable with the idea. There's so much about girl parts that are just intuitive, and there's been several issues I've had over the years that I've had to describe in more vague terms than other medical problems I've had, and I think that only another woman could understand those descriptions. And I've had some crappy female doctors, too (when I was having essentially uterus migraines, she and her nurse told me to just take a couple of Midol and carry on with my, when you're in so much pain you can't stand up, light/noise/temperature sensitive and nearly passing out, a couple of Midol ain't gonna do shit) Anyway, to get back to the point, I don't think the government should be able to regulate this kind of thing. Maybe there's a reason that there's such a significant preference among women (in the U.S., Sweden, wherever) for female gynecologists.
"I don't think the government should be able to regulate this kind of thing." yes polly, or much of anything else related to women's bodies! i'm also wary of this "discrimination against male" doctors. sounds like the arguements of yesteryear when women were entering the workforce more fervently, taking away "men's jobs," as if working, or the practice of medicine, especially women's medicine, belongs to men. urgh!

so here's this weekend's top headlines of my local section of the Star-Ledger. WTF? :

Saturday, January 27, 2007
• Jury clears guard on some charges, deadlocks on others
After four straight days of deliberation, a Union County jury cleared a corrections officer who prosecutors contended was sexually obsessed with female inmates of eight misconduct and sexual contact charges but refused to pass judgment on nine others.

• Teacher admits to seeking sex from high school girl
A former Elizabeth High School teacher has pleaded guilty to child abuse, admitting that he called and passed sexually explicit notes to one of his 15-year-old female stu dents last May.

• Man charged in attack on two Newark girls
A Hillside man was charged yesterday with sexually assaulting two 16-year-old Newark girls at knife point in a secluded area along Route 22.

Friday, January 26, 2007
• Judge kills sex bias suit against Union County
A judge has dismissed a sexual discrimination lawsuit filed against Union County by a former fitness trainer who claimed officials denied her a job because a freeholder's girlfriend was jealous of her physique.

• Police seek leads in pedestrian attack
WESTFIELD: Police yesterday released a composite sketch of a man being sought in an attack on a woman as she walked home along North Ave nue last week.

hmm, polly. I don't like the choice being taken away. It's up to each women to decide what she feels most comfortable with. Myself, I have tried both male and female, gynos. Right now I have a really awesome male gyno, and hope I never have to search for another. But really everybody is different so I hate the idea of anyone taking away or limiting options.
I don't agree w/ that at all. like you say... maybe there's a Reason for women's preferance that shoudln't be discounted and there needs to be a reversal of that process completely. and now that i think about it.. I think that statistically, there are probably more female Ob/Gyn's, as well as MALE Proctologists, for obvious reasons. how many men would be comfortable w/ a women doing That type of work on them? ( some woudln't care I'm sure, but majority?)

exactly what you said about labor too.
in Panama, I had the choice of a female Obgyn (Dr. Jolie, no not the same as the famous!) for my pregnancy, but on the stipulation that she didn't have hospital delivery privlidges, or I could {go to the other clinic w/in the hos} be seen by a Delivery Dr (always a man bc she was the only female & worked at a different location). I choose her. I figured that when the time came, my body would know what to do and that delivery would be the short end of situation and was (mostly) right. I had 9.5 months to build a close relationship with her and to this day still miss her.
once I was in the hos & my water broke & I hit the call button for the nurse, SHE was the one who responded to it bc she had come there to check on me, on her own time, bc that's how she was.
the male dr who actualy did delivery frecklette was ok. I didn't literally see much of him bc the actual birthing was sooo quick it was more like him catching a fastball w/ a mitt, and then the rest, once again, was done by female nurses and I was immediately back to Dr. Jolie again.

I don't see how people don't get this?

how is it discrimination if it's truly what the majority of people want?

oh my gosh,what a pattern I see there and none good!
what era Are we living in?!
Y'know, I tend to lean more towards male gynos (And other medical professionals. I had a nice male nurse when I did my ankle, then I had a bitchy as hell lady.) because my first gyno was a woman & left a very bad taste in my mouth. In my small town, I had two choices. Go to my friend's *DAD* or to the lady, so I picked her. Unbeknownst to me, she was a hardcore, old school Catholic with *EIGHT* children of her own. My mom wanted to put me on BC because I had horrible dysmenorhea that took me out of school a day or two a month. To her, that was just being a woman since Eve sinned & now we had to pay for it. She berated both my mother & myself about the hellfire & the dangers of the high rates of promiscuity amongst black teenage girls, only adding insult to injury. I wound up driving to a PP in Wichita, KS (150mi away.) where I was bombarded by Pro-lifers because they hang out there all the time, even on days when it's just people going in for consults. I'm surprised I was ever able to go to the gyno again.

I've only ever had one male doctor be a complete dick to me & I went after his ass with more righteous indignation than he'd ever seen before. Shut him right up & made him think.

I wondered if anybody had seen this:
Ew, nasty gyno AP! I've actually been seeing my general practitioner for my girlie needs. She's really cool and she was the doctor who happened to be on call when my mom delivered me so I've literally known her all my life and she's really cool. In the next few years, I want to make some permanent reproductive choices, and I'm going to have to find a real gynecologist for that. I just have to find someone who isn't going to cast doubt on me for ending my reproductive life at 30 or so. Not an easy task, from what I hear.

I heard about that story! That's so sick. There was a similar one on MSNBC today. Apparently, while she was in jail overnight they had to give her 12 sets of new pants because of all the bleeding, yet still didn't think her medical condition warranted going to the hospital. WTF?

ETA: I just heard that the huge security scare in Boston today was not only a hoax, but a publicity ploy for Aqua Teen Hunger Force, that cartoon on Cartoon Network. OMG, that is so stupid.
I went through the same thing w/ PP back in IN when I wanted to go on the pill but didn't have insurance.
terrible people w/ graphic signs screaming at me when I wanted to roll the window down and scream back at them 'That is what I am trying to avoid!!!' ugh. the horror.
that is so why I am raising frecklette as aggressively as I am in terms of sex- ed, so she is Always informed and in-control of her body and won't have to do anything shady. if she's going to have sex (whenever), I want her to be safe about it and have continual gyno care. the mr totally disagree's, saying that attitude is the same as giving permission but NEWSFLASH, it's not up to us when She Decides!

anyway, I think comfort, and the relationship you establish, is the key to whomever you choose.
polly, can your family gp maybe recommend someone for you? seems like she is a really great dr and you are very lucky.

and yah, I saw that story in the paper too. it's not so unlike when known prostitues (tho not equating her w/1 at all) are raped; and it's just terrible.

has anyone else seen this? it's crazi but I know there is a reason for it bc I've read before that immigrants coming to new countries also bring their traditional ways with them, such as FGM and it's horrific.
how progressive in the most commons-sense way, for this small community to establish this.
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