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Thank you everyone ((((big hugs))))

Have a wonderful Valentine's Day
Valentine's Day usually blows, so I put little import in it. But this year was diff. Since the first I have been receiving weird, delightful little gifts via post. Gummy hearts that look like human ones, etc. I dunno how he got everything timed just so, (Not that I am surprised, he's anal as hell. But that is another story!) but he did. Yesterday I got flowers with a typical HB style card, even in his own hand: Happy Lupercalian Eve, I offer you the genitals of another species.

Yes, he is demented, but that's why I love him.
Haven't been in here in a while but was just skimming through and wanted to say well done sandee for being brave and finishing the relationship. You obviously knew it wasn't for you deep down and I'm sure most of us know that it's not always easy to follow our instincts in such situations. I admire you for that. Hope valentines day was good for you
auralpoisen- sounds like a keeper wink.gif
QUOTE(sexysandee @ Feb 13 2008, 11:59 AM) *
I have decided to end it with M. Maybe I am a bad person and I cannot get over the fact that he was in prison. I also am very afriad of what he might do if things go wrong later in life. He has a horrible temper. I think it's true that we tend to end up with me like our fathers and if I stay with M that is exactly what I would be doing.
I feel very confused and lost right now. I am hurting inside.
If you see me in the threads and I am joking around and having fun that is how I cope.
I will write about this more in another thread when I feel a little better.

Thank you all in this thread for all the help and support

I am sorry that you are hurting but I think you made the right choice. Your instincts are good and it is great that you listened to them.
Sexy, I gotta say, I had a bad feeling when you said that your issues were not him, they were other people. It struck me that when you say that, its very much about how the other person deals with those other people.
The other night M called.
He asked what I was doing and I said "Sleeping"
He said... "okay, bye"
That was it. I thought it was a dream, but when I woke up his number was on my phone.

Today, he called again.
We talked... I cried.
I feel lost.
I almost feel numb, I feel like I cannot cry anymore, in the beginning I thought something was wrong with me because I didn't cry.

I am now moving into the moving on thread, but I just wanted to let you all wonderful people know the sittuation.
I just don't know if I can be in this relationship anymore. I've spent this week realizing that it has become what I was afraid of. I keep tiptoeing around going "Do you like me enough yet? Have I done anything wrong yet?" While he seems pretty happy with what we have. I don't even know how to talk to him about it. For the past couple of weeks we have only seen each other on weekends. It's like having a long-distance relationship with someone who lives 20 minutes away. But, at the same time, it can't always be me asking for more. I don't know if that is being selfish or immature or what but he has to want me too. We don't talk on the phone much b/c his job is telephone work. In fact he is terrible on the phone and I tend to feel worse after we do b/c he sounds so distant and far away. We mostly talk through emails and texts. I like them but they are mostly jokes and witty comments. I want more. I want to know what the hell is getting out of this relationship besides sex and a fun weekend.

We spoke on the phone last night and he said, "What's going on?" as if there had to be a reason for us to talk (again, he doesn't like the phone much.) I just said, "Nothing, I just missed you...that's okay, right?" He did not say that he misses me.

I have been trying to give him more time. I don't want to give him any kind of ultimatum and I won't. But at the same time it just isn't me to be so scared of loosing something and too scared to speak up to keep it from happening. I just want to know.

I feel apart last night and I started crying again almost the moment I woke up. I have to pull myself together here.
(((kittenb))) you should speak up to him. it is definitely a valid concern. he is not giving you what you want. that doesn't mean he's a bad person. even the nicest mates can't or won't fulfill our needs the way we want them to. if he's no good at communication and you really need that from a relationship, then maybe it's not a good match. but i think you should definitely tell him what you need and evaluate his reasons for not being in touch and seeing you more.
Yeeesh, kittenb, I have been in such a similar situation, I totally know how hard and confusing it is being with a boy who seems to need so much less out of the relationship than you do. In my case, it’s doubly hard that I often don’t see him, other than the weekends, considering he lives across the street from me. Yes, sad, but true. I don’t know, I could write a novel about the issues we have. But, I think we’ve found a sort of happy medium, and it’s boiled down to this:

Me expressing that I simply need more out of the relationship or it just won’t work for me, no matter how much I love him. Him understanding, and being willing to make more time for me, and show more interest in me (no matter how hard and foreign it feels to him of little-to-no previous girlfriend experience). And then, me understanding that it is hard for him to be a doting boyfriend, not because he doesn't love me, but because of his past and just because of who he is. Part of that is not automatically assuming the worst if I don’t talk to him for a few days, and really knowing that he’s just busy/occupied/in a writer’s frenzy or whatever you want to call it. So far it’s worked out with us both making the effort to accept things that aren’t automatically in our comfort zone. For him, it’s really helped that I gave him the time and the space to acclimate to being in a relationship, as well as the space he just needs to be comfortable. For me, I’ve actually learned to appreciate having a boyfriend and having lots of space to hang out with my friends and do the solo stuff I love, reading and creating art and whatnot. So, even though I was initially like, ‘yeah this isn’t going to work, we totally need different things’ we have found a balance.

So, I’d say if you really like this boy enough that you’re willing to do the hard work of finding a relationship that works for both of you, despite your unmatching needs, it could totally be worth it in the long run. But, by all means talk to him about this, let him know how you’re feeling and, if you are, that you’re willing to give him the space he needs, as long as he’s willing to give you a little more time, attention, and reassurance, that you need. At least try it, and if it still doesn’t work then on the greener and more fulfilling pastures…. Hope that helps a bit.
Thanks, nickclick & likeanyother, for your thoughts and help. Now please don't be mad at me when I make a confession.
In another thread I mentioned that I started taking birthcontrol recently. I've had no bad physical side effects but there have been 3 different nervous breakdowns. These feelings of intense grief and loss and the certainty that my boyfriend is going to break up with me just sweeps over me for hours. It almost feels delusional it is so strong. The real problem is that I have no idea that the emotions are not really real until hours later.
This is what I was going through when I made that post. Reading over it, I am suprise that I sounded as articulate as I did since all I remember was feeling scared and grief-striken. The feeling started to abate a few hours later, going to the gym helped and I went to work. Last night I had a nice date w/my boyfriend, even. He is not planning on leaving me.
A little good came out of my breakdown. I did miss him this week so I told him last night that I really wanted us to make more of an effort to see each other during the week. He was fine with that and actually had missed me. I also realized that I was putting pressure on myself to mask some of who I really am. In previous relationships I had sometime succomed to pressure to mold myself into a different person. My boyfriend has given me none of that pressure but I was giving it to myself. I told him I wasn't going to do that anymore. Again, he said fine. Of course he did. He had no idea that I was doing it.
I told him about the mood swing side effect and how all the crazy seemed to focus around him and us. He had seen it already as he was here for the second one.

So while the post was mostly about true stuff the level of intensity was way off. I know this now. I called my mom and my best friend and told them that if I call either of them in the next few weeks crying hysterically about how my boyfriend is going to break up with me they are to ask me if it is a real thought or if I am possibly having a reaction to the meds. I am also going to call my doctor and see if this is to be expected and if the swings will fade as I get used to the dosage.

I am really embarressed that I made that post yesterday but it is what it is. rolleyes.gif I am feeling much better now and that is what I am going to focus on. Thanks again. You all rock.
Kittenb, don't ever be embarrassed about what you post in here! That's what it's for. I am glad that you've identified what triggers that response and have a plan to tackle that it when it arises. FWIW, in the early days with my mister, even though I knew he was committed to me and cared for me, I would regularly suddenly panic, sure he was about to throw in the towel. For me, I think it demonstrated how very much the relationship meant to me even then, and thus how much I wanted it to last. And it has.

Long story short: feelings like what you describe are normal (meds or no meds), although their intensity can feel irrational. As long as you can ultimately trust your guy to be upfront about how he feels (which it seems you can) and know how to deal with those feelings you'll be fine. Glad to hear all continues well. smile.gif
QUOTE(kittenb @ Feb 23 2008, 02:36 PM) *
there have been 3 different nervous breakdowns. These feelings of intense grief and loss and the certainty that my boyfriend is going to break up with me just sweeps over me for hours. It almost feels delusional it is so strong. The real problem is that I have no idea that the emotions are not really real until hours later.

kittenb - I have to admit that I haven't been following along that well just because I haven't stopped into bust for a while. I did want to just add that I have had very similar breakdowns myself on and off meds. For me it's sometimes a dream that triggers them. Once I dreamed that Mr. Pug joined the army and left me. Another time he left me for another woman. Other times I just am not feeling so good about my body or my mental state and I just feel like he'd be better off with someone else. I don't know why I feel like this or why these waves come over me. It's very intense grief, loss and for me fear. My biggest fear is failure. My biggest accomplishment is my relationship. So to loose Mr. Pug would mean failing my biggest accomplishment if that makes sense. It terrifies and deeply saddens me. Most of the time I deal with this alone and internally because I don't want to burden Mr. Pug with these feelings. I think one of the things he loves about me is my strength and I don't like him to see this weakness and I do consider it a personality weakness on my part. I know I shouldn't but I’m very hard on myself. It's how I was raised. He will probably be upset when he reads this that I suffer through these moments alone and don't come to him. Thinking about it now, I think these times are when I’m the most "cuddly". I’m not a very "hold me" kind of person but when I’m feeling so insecure I really do need him. I don't tell him that I need him I just snuggle my face into his arms or his chest and I have this very profound need to be held. I don't know if this is what you mean. Like I said, I haven't been following along that well cause I’m just stopping in for a brief moment. If this is how you feel I just wanted you to know that you are not alone. If I’m way off then shit I just shared something about myself that I’ve never told anyone and I guess that's never a bad thing right? smile.gif
QUOTE(LoveMyPugs @ Feb 24 2008, 09:29 AM) *
I think one of the things he loves about me is my strength and I don't like him to see this weakness and I do consider it a personality weakness on my part. I know I shouldn't but I’m very hard on myself. It's how I was raised.

wow, i have this same exact problem with mr.nick, and most of my friends. my mom does it too and it annoys the hell out of me. she'll tell me some problem and then say - that's it, i don't want to talk about it anymore. i'm not that extreme but i often keep it to myself when i'm worried about something. thanks for sharing, LMP.

kittenb, thanks for sharing too. and glad you talked about it with him!
<delurk> well, the guy and i are now debating the future of our 1.5 year long, remember that this is the first serious relationship for this guy.......neither of us wants to be immediately married....but since i was engaged before, i am more ready than he is.....and my insecurities make me believe that he won't want me/i'm just the girl who 'broke him in and gave him confidence to play the field......and when i ponder why i'd want to be married, i can't exactly find a reason.....yet i want to have something more than dating....but then, lots of folks are in long term relationships without being married....see why i'm confused....thanks for listening, and thanks in advance if you have words of wisdom for me....p_176
P, are you 2 exclusive or have you just been dating for that long?
The first time a boyfriend mentioned marriage it completely freaked me out, but I was still in high school. =)
I don't think getting engaged is going to take away your insecurities, especially if you're engaged because it sounds like a good idea. Just give him time and don't pressure anything. The whole idea may still freak him out a little, so let him come around at his own pace.
computer made me double-post... don't know how to delete
p 176, i am pretty sure that engagement and marriage will not fix your insecurities. i can say this from personal experience. i am happily married to a wonderful man who doesn't give me any reason to worry, yet, because the insecurities are my own . . . i still worry, he will leave me for someone, smarter, prettier, tinier, happier, better organized, more confident, less clingy, with longer hair, younger, with out baggage . . . i could go on. but these are all my issues. not his. i am learning, although slowly, that he married me because he loves me. yes me. i married him because i love him dearly and want to be married to him and have a family with him and enjoy our lives together. all of these reasons do not make my insecurities go away. i have to learn to do that on my own. i suspect you are in a bit of the same boat. by the way, if you have a great way of letting your insecurities go . . . feel free to share.
by the way, if you have a great way of letting your insecurities go . . . feel free to share.
Yeah, really.

Is the concern that the two of you need to either take a step forward or break up? Is there outside pressure that is causing this confusion or do you feel ready for a change? it doesn't sound that you are thinking marraige so much as you just want to know what is happening.
I sometimes feel like Mr. Pug and I are just at this stand still. We bought a house together and have been living together happily for over two years. For two years before that we lived at his mom's and then two years before that we rented an apartment together. We've been engaged forever and there is no wedding in the near future. We aren't having kids until I'm done school and have a job. He also wants to pay off some of our debt. He says we don't have any money but we just bought a $4,600 TV before Christmas. I mean we bought it on 12 months no interest and we are paying it off in eleven months. We had the money to buy it with cash but decided not to. Our savings goes down little by little every month. So he's right we don't have money but then again why are we buying a TV then? Sometimes I'm just confused about where we are. I mean we are absolutely committed. We might as well be married. But...say this to a married person and they treat you like you are a new couple dating and you're six years of living together and 11 years in a committed relationship is nothing compared to their "x" amount of years married. I'm so sick of the

When you're married you'll understand.
Things change once your married.
You'll understand when you have kids of your own.
Things change once you have children.

I just don't believe that everything has to change once you are married and have children. My one friend acts like all my personal convictions are going to be compromised once I pop out a kid. Sometimes I think the reason I want to get married and have children so badly is to just prove everyone wrong. Other times it's cause I really do want to call Mr. Pug my husband and be his wife. I really do want to have a baby to care for and raise as our own. So these feelings just frustrate me and make me anxious for the next step. I've never said that we need to get married or move on. I'm not about ultimatums like that. Neither one of us is going anywhere. It just sometimes feels like we are stuck is some loop that we'll never get out of. I used to say that we would never have a house and be on our own and that isn't true. We did save and found a house and moved out and are extremely happy with it. It's just the wedding and baby thing just hangs over my head. I don't believe it affects Mr. Pug this way. I think this is because I have three friends getting married and one friend having a baby. Two of the four are younger then me and I've been with my man longer then any of them. Again it's just frustrating. We should be married by now.

God I hope Mr. Pug doesn't read this. I know he's tired of this rant. I try to leave it alone cause it's just pointless. Things will happen for us all in good time. I just need to be patient.
well, it's not the marriage that costs money, it's the wedding, and if being married is important to both of you, it can be done without the expense of a wedding. the party can even happen much later, when finances are better. probably not the most fun way to do it, but i know what you mean about being legally committed. i mean, same-sex couples aren't fighting for the right to have big parties.....

that said, you seem conflicted that you're happy right now not being married but feel like you should be married, compared to others. drop all that shit and then evaluate how you feel about the subject. believe me, i was with someone for 9 years and the questions about marriage and babies were endless. i cringe at the thought of giving in to pressure and getting married or having children with my ex! not saying this will be the outcome with you and mr.pugs in any way.... you guys are way solid. just saying there's no need to rush.

that ALSO being said, if you are really ready, is there another reason besides $ that mr.pugs isn't ready? i know mr.nick stresses more about planning a wedding with his crazy family more than actual marriage. could be another reason that he's not talking about? i dunno.
Definitely not about the money, cuz my hubby and I had none going into our marriage. Girl we cried and fought about plans and blah blah blah.... We ended up having an $80.00 civil wedding ceremony and went out to eat buffet with the families afterwards. Not the most IDEAL situation but we are both very satisfied with the way we did it- debt free!! Maybe for our 1 yr or 2 yr anniversary we can have a party or go on a honeymoon.

If that's something you guys truly want it can be done for less than the cost of that tv. You have to be in agreement though. I agree with Nick- there's no rush, you guys have been together for a while. If you guys are not ready, don't let anyone make you feel bad for your decision. It's your life and a major major life changing event. Once the ceremony is over and everyone goes home its just you and him again. YOUR MARRIAGE IS WHAT YOU MAKE IT! Hell you guys already know each other in and out so not much can change unless you let it. You know??

Good luck babe
QUOTE(nickclick @ Feb 26 2008, 02:15 PM) *
that ALSO being said, if you are really ready, is there another reason besides $ that mr.pugs isn't ready? i know mr.nick stresses more about planning a wedding with his crazy family more than actual marriage. could be another reason that he's not talking about? i dunno.

well nickclick - that is a post all it's own. let's just say that mr. pug and i would be happy going to the j.o.p and then having a backyard bbq but my mother wants otherwise. his family isn't the problem it's mine. my family is fucked up and they are really the reason i don't want a wedding period. i mean i want to be married but i don't want a wedding. seriously, i just feel like if we went to the j.o.p and got married that all of our famiy and friends would never forgive us. it's irritating. if i didn't have to deal with the constant pressure and guilt over not having or wanting a wedding i'd never get married. mr. pug wants to get married but doesn't want the wedding either. it's hard to be a woman who doesn't want or hasn't fantasized about the big white wedding. i feel ganged up on. then i just get frustrated and don't want to talk about it anymore.
i'm tired of the outside pressure to get married. it seems like folks think that because we've been dating for a year that we should be engaged (even though he lives in another state). he thinks that my exfiance and i getting engaged after a year was too fast, and he has two sets of friends who have been living together/perpetually engaged for several years and i don't want that.
i just keep thinking about past relationships where the guy wanted me to give up everything and move where it was convenient for him, not considering what i wanted, and it seems like i'm on that ride again.
i really have not come to any conclusions about my situation, other than he has to make some decisions about what he wants...
also, pugs, in my opinion and limited experience, things do change once you are married. as for the $4600 TV, have you guys talked about your financial and savings goals (with specific steps on how to achieve them)? it may help define that 'we're saving money/but not really saving' line.
as for married couples 'looking down' on you because you are not hell with them, because there is something to be said for the fact that you have been together for so long and you've worked through hard times. a friend of mine has been with her boyfriend for 20 years, and folks asked her why did they not get married. she told me later that she had really wanted to say, well, we've been together longer than you've been divorced!!
and, in agreement with what some other folks here have said...if you are basically married (in lifestyle and commitment level), why not go to a justice of the peace or whoever and get officially married? the wedding is not as important as the actual marriage.

Mr Pugs
*Runs in and looks at the horse lying dead on the ground*

Get up!!

*Kicks horse and runs away yelling drive thru wedding vegas style!!!*
dry.gif do you see what i live with *sigh* dry.gif

QUOTE(Mr Pugs @ Feb 26 2008, 03:20 PM) *
*Runs in and looks at the horse lying dead on the ground*

Get up!!

*Kicks horse and runs away yelling drive thru wedding vegas style!!!*

LMP - i don't want a wedding, really, either, and people look at you strangely when you say that! it's so annoying! i'm like, i have better things to waste my money on!
seriously you'll, mr. pug wants a pig roast wedding with the reception at the bowling alley...

blink.gif blink.gif blink.gif

what have i gotten myself into?
bowling's fun... am i invited?

my mom's all - call me up from vegas the next day, and his mom's all - when are you going to get marrrrrrrrrrrrrried and have baaaaaaaaaaaaaabies ????? so we're already resigned that we're not going to please everyone.
Mr Pugs
seriously you'll, mr. pug wants a pig roast wedding with the reception at the bowling alley...

That's the best idea I've heard all morning!!!! Your mom would just shit herself!!! Sounds like a plan, but we should enforce a dress code...I'm thinking pajama style!!!
mmm pig roast and bowling...that sounds like an awesome wedding

this is an interesting discussion. i get annoyed by our married friends who nag us to do the deed - we have been together longer (only 5 years, but still) and are really happy as we are, i think they just want company in the land of marriage!

in one way, i would prefer not to get married ever. I don't really like weddings, i hate dressing up, i don't need the bit of paper to reassure me that we're solid, and the words 'husband' and 'wife' don't exactly reek of hot sex to me. And mainly, i hate the assumption that the relationship up till you've signed on the line doesn't count for anything. We own a house together and are having a baby, and that seems more of a meaningful commitment than wearing a stoopid dress and organising a party (i hate parties). oh, and i hate the assumption that because i'm the girl, i've just been sitting round daydreaming of white dresses and pining away waiting for him to pop the question. bah!

but i think it will be inevitable that we do the deed, as i want us to be equal before the law as parents and a partnership for things like inheritance tax, and the amount of legal crap we would have to do seems too much effort compared to just getting married. part of me wants to do it while i'm huge and pregnant, but i don't want people assuming it's because i give a shit about the baby being born to us unmarried.

tricky...i'm thinking maybe get the baby christened once it's born, and surprise everyone by throwing in a wedding as well? my only stipulation is that there is a proper drum barbecue and free range jerk chicken. any thoughts?
hey to each their own. be it pig roast and bbq or huge traditional cathedral wedding, or no legal document at all. the thing here to remember (this is for the mothers and such) is that it is supposed to be for those involved in the commitment/marriage. so do what you want to do. not what family wants you to do. they can have their own parties and spend thousands of dollars on puffy white dresses to wear if that is what they want.
we got married on our front deck by a friend of ours with a total of 9 people including myself, my son and my husband. my "wedding cake" was strawberry short cake. my dress and shoes cost less than $50 and i was completely happy with the whole bit. my mother and father were not there. let alone any further extended family. it was fun and relaxed. then we got up at the butt crack of dawn and left for europe for our honey moon. that too was awesome!

by the way, i think it is possible to be committed completely to another person without a piece of paper to tell you that you are married.
oh shiny that sounds so nice, i'm actually feeling fuzzy inside! that is more the kind of wedding i could handle.

especially the strawberry shortcake smile.gif
Joining the conversation a bit late here ... smile.gif

Shiny, I could not agree with you more! Sheff and I have been married for 3 years now and one of the things I learned from our experience is that it is no one's goddamn business whether you get married or not! It's too personal of a decision for anyone to tell you whether you should or shouldn't do it. I am lucky in a way because I have a stubborn streak. My family learned long ago that if they try to pressure me into doing anything, I will push even harder against it. So they never pressured me to get married or have babies because they knew that if they did, it'd never happen! biggrin.gif

I am curious about what makes couples decide to get married nowadays. Sheff and I got married (for those who don't know our story) because I'm American & he's English. After a lot of traveling back and forth, an immigration officer told me that, basically, we needed to decide whether we really wanted to be together. Because the only way we could be together is if we got married. I'd gotten into a bit of trouble with Immigration, you see, and ... well, let's just say that our situation really forced us to look at the big picture. Sheff and I had both been in long-term relationships with other people before (mine was over 7 years, his was closer to 8) so we knew what that felt like, but also knew what was wrong in those relationships & why we couldn't commit to those people. Luckily, we found qualities in one another that were much more like what we needed from a spouse - a partner.

There are lots of sweet, romantic reasons why I knew it was a good idea to marry Sheff. But frankly, there are a ton of unromantic reasons, too. For instance, we have similar attitudes about money (we HATE debt of any kind & we don't view shopping as a form of entertainment). Also - and this may sound weird - I feel like I can easily discuss the important-yet-boring parts of life with him. I could easily see myself buying life insurance with this man. And I know that sounds dull as all hell, but it was one of those important things I never thought about until we started talking about getting married.

Now, would we have gotten married if it weren't for silly things getting in the way like Immigration officers and the Pacific Ocean? Honestly, I don't know. We might not have. But our relationship was shaped by our experiences and our experiences forced us to think about things in a way we might not have otherwise. We definitely married for love. No doubt about that. But there's still a teensy tiny part of me - that stubborn side - that is resentful towards the US & UK government for forcing us to decide one way or the other.

Anyway, all of this is a very long way of saying that in some cases, outside forces step in and make people decide to get married. I think that's especially true because in this day and age, you really don't need to get married. There's no shame in living together if that's what you want to do. You just have to do what makes you feel comfortable.

I will admit that being married does feel a lot different to me compared to living together long-term. I'm actually kinda commitment-phobic. When I was with my ex - and even when I was with Sheff before we got married - I always kinda had one foot still sticking out the door, if you know what I mean. I always knew I had a quick and easy way out whenever I wanted, so I was never really committed in my heart and in my mind. Getting married forced me to pull that foot out of the door - to stand in the room on both of my feet and say, "Yes, this is where I am and this is what I want." It was scary as all hell & the day we eloped I was so scared that I was sick as a dog! But I felt good about it afterwards & I still feel good about it.

But again, that's just me. It's not the same for everyone.
marriage had been so bad for women for so long, that it's got a bad rep. all the varied religious pressures and expectations did it in too. but the basic idea of a committed partnership that is legally recognized and ceremonially celebrated sounds just great to me. and the fact that many couples can now live together and/or raise families as married couples did/do without marriage, but STILL choose to marry, hopefully means that it's chosen for the latter and more well thought-out reasons.
((RV)) My brother and sister-in-law got married to avoid her having to pay a premium on university tuition....22 years ago and still going strong.
OMG I also do not like the idea of a giant wedding with me or the missus in huge puffy white dresses, with 500 of our closest friends and family complaining that they got the fish instead of the chicken. the very thought of shit like that sends me in to a coronary. I have finally found other folks who have a fear of commitment ceremonies (but not of commitment). blink.gif Wow! I'm not the only one.
So, as suggested, my rant has been brought to this thread. I need some help ladies.

Anyway, I just had a question. How many married ladies in here have a problem getting their husband to actually help out around the house? How do you deal with it?? This is a problem I'm having (among several, i.e. the grody gross out thread). I do love my hubby very much. He is driving me batty though. I have been unemployed for almost 5 months now. Its like all the cleaning/cooking around my house gets done by me. The laundry - me. Dishes, me.... And I know he sees this cluster fudge of chaos cuz he's always like Oh we gotta clean up. Yeah fool we do! But he never does unless I fuss at him and expressly ask him to help me. He's messy as hell. I do his laundry at the same time I do mine, and he's so damn lazy now he wont even put his clothes away unless i tell him to. So, I tend to leave it where it is just to see if he will get tired of looking at it like I do. Not so much. I end up getting pissed off and yelling at him to put his shyt away. Just a laundry list of gripes I have with this man. WE have not been married a year yet. I find my self increasingly more frustrated with him because I do want things to work out. I do not like to argue, and get easily anxious about confrontations. Maybe I'm too anal about things, or too nit-picky. Maybe I just have standards and expectations that he's not meeting. I swear some days I could go on and on about the things that piss me off about him but I'd be typing for hours. Makes me feel like a lunatic yall.

And I know he sees this cluster fudge of chaos cuz he's always like Oh we gotta clean up. Yeah fool we do!
kon, i know your problem isn't funny but you crack me up!

have you tried saying 'i've done the laundry hon, i've left your clean stuff on the chair in the bedroom' or whatever. make sure he knows all the chores you have done because they don't always notice - i used to do tons of cleaning and really resent it, but i think he didn't realise because he wasn't in when i did it. set it out for him - 'i've made dinner and done the laundry, would you mind washing up?' he'll learn

or set it out for him like, 'ok, we need to clean up, which rooms do you want to do?' so he can't really say 'none of 'em'

but it seems like if he's in work and you're not, it's ok if you're picking up a bit more of the housework while you're home in the daytime, if you look at it like housework is work, then you could see it as your temp job for the time being, on the basis that once you are earning as well, that you split the chores more evenly. try to discuss it with him - it may be that your expectations of each other are out of synch.

i think if my bf was out of work i would expect him to do more, whereas right now we both work full-time but he works crazy long hours, so i do most of the cooking and shopping - if we had a strict rota then i wouldn't be eating dinner until 10pm every night. but then at the weekends, we split the cleaning (and he has done extra lately to give me a break).

sit down with him and talk stuff through, maybe his avoidance is a passive way of arguing and there are some things you could work through, or he just doesn't realise? or is he just not accustomed to living with someone? it takes practice!

just my 2 cents though. good luck!

Konphusion, are you trying to find a job right now? Are you in school?

I am unemployed and my husband works full time. We have decided that my "job" is to take care of the house. I do the dishes, laundry, grocery shopping, cooking, you name it. He helps around in little ways. For instance, I hate shredding junk mail (I hate the sound of the machine. It's one of my weird things), but it doesn't bother him, so he'll do it for me. He also helps take care of the yard. This works great for us. But then again, I know that my husband doesn't automatically expect me to do the work simply because I'm female. There was a time when I was working full time and my husband was unemployed. During that year, he did all of the household chores. He bought groceries, did the laundry (this was before we had our own washer & drier, so it was more of a hassel then), washed dishes, cooked dinner, etc.

Here's the way I think of it. My husband works 8 hours a day, making money that pays all of our bills. It takes far far less than 8 hours a day for me to take care of the household chores. So it just makes sense for me to take care of the house. It's fair. Well, actually, it isn't that fair. I think I've got it pretty easy. wink.gif

Now, if I went back to working full time, we'd definitely have to split up the chores. Here's the basic way to do it. You and your partner just sit down & fairly confront the issue. Make a list of the different chores that need to be done & how often someone needs to do them. Each of you should then make a list of chores you are willing to do as well as chores you hate. For example, I know that my husband hates washing dishes. Something about it just kills his soul. Putting the dishes in the dishwasher does not bother me one bit, so I'm very willing to do that. Anyway, go through the list & assign them. If there are any chores you both hate, then take turns (change it weekly, monthly, whatever).

Frankly, it worries me that you say that you get easily anxious about confrontations. Most people don't like confrontations, but there's a huge difference between confrontation & communication. Don't confuse them! A happy marriage is all about open communication. Seriously. It is ALL about talking to one another and honestly talking freely and sorting through problems together. Don't use subtle hints. They usually don't work & do nothing but annoy you. Don't expect him to read your mind. Just tell him exactly what is bothering you and work together to find solutions that work for both of you. Will you get your way all the time? No. That's called compromise. It's a major part of marriage. But if you work together, you'll want to make one another happy. Maybe you'll both want to help around the house because it's a way of showing love and respect to your spouse.

If nothing else, get him to realize that a happy, clean house results in a happy, loving relationship. And happy relationships lead to great sex. He wants great sex, right? Then he should put away his clean laundry. biggrin.gif
oh right, he should definitely pick up after himself, that is not unreasonable to expect, even if you are responsible for the actual chores. he should still show some consideration. definitely talk this through, like rose said

oh, and the sex thing, i get really grouchy if i don't get laid. if you can't have actual sex right now, at least schedule some quality time with your right hand or a vibe wink.gif
That's so strange that he used to be so neat, but now he won't even do basic things like clean up after he shaves. I wonder what has brought about this change. Is he working longer hours or weird hours compared to before? Any other big changes going on in his life? Think he might even be going through a depression? Sometimes when people are depressed, one of the first things they do is they stop taking care of themselves - they stop bathing as often, don't brush their teeth as they should, aren't as tidy as before, etc. It's something to consider.

I'm sorry to hear that you're having hormone troubles & such. I have endometriosis which has caused me a LOT of pain before - pain so bad that sex wasn't possible. That sort of thing is so frustrating & depressing. It can definitely affect other aspects of your life. sad.gif
Mr. Pug leaves for work at 6 a.m. and gets home around 5 p.m. I'm in school fulltime but I have a lot of down time at home. So I do most of the cleaning, dishes, laundry, dusting, cooking. Mr. Pug does the trash, vacuuming, will help with laundry and takes care of the yard and what not. He supports me financially so I support him by having a nice (somewhat) peaceful environment for him to come home to. Many times he comes home to dishes not done, dinner not ready, dust and inch thick everywhere, dog hair all over the floor, soap scum in the bathroom, gray tiles that should be white, trash stacked six feet high, and me sitting on my ass watching a movie cause I'm just not motivated. However, when I do get motivated...look out. The house is getting cleaned. When we are going to have company he does really help with everything. I just point him in the right direction and off he goes. My biggest bitch is the dishes. I hate being the one who does the dishes all the time. I'm trying to accept the fact that this is just how it's going to be. He WON'T do dishes. BUT!!! That's fine because I WON'T cut the grass. I don't know. Things are pretty even in our home. He never bitches at me about chores not being done and I try (note I said try) not to bitch at him.

I can add that the "chores" issue used to be huge for us but now I think I'm really learning to let it go and just do what I have to do. So has he. I think we are just growing together as a cohabitating (sp?) couple.
mr.nick and i have also split the chores (albeit unevenly tipped more to my side of the scale) by what we can handle. i hate food shopping, planning or cooking a meal (but i love eating, go figure). luckily he loves to cook. so that leave me with the clean up. but jeez he is the messiest cook and does he have to use every pot????!!!??? he also does trash and shoveling. but he is big on - i'll do it later - when it comes to picking up after himself. he loves to pile unread mail in a million different piles around the house. which i will then gather and leave in his way so he has to bring it upstairs to the office. he has one or two places to consolidate his mess. and that still leaves one big pile, so i give him deadlines. like - i'm going to dust and vacuum on thursday, so please move all that off the desk and pick this up off the floor before then.

we don't have a written list, but we certainly had a talk before cohabiting about who hates doing what and some common courtesies expected. he is a slob but i like a super clean house, so our compromise is that i do most of the cleaning but he's expected not to exasperate the mess by leaving shit everywhere. konphusion, i don't think it's too late to have that talk.
jeez he is the messiest cook and does he have to use every pot????!!!???

so true nick!
but jeez he is the messiest cook and does he have to use every pot????!!!???

I'm usually the cook and I use EVERY pot too. If they made paper pots and pans I'd use them.
he also does trash and shoveling. but he is big on - i'll do it later

we are both like this when it comes to certain things we don't really like to do.
he loves to pile unread mail in a million different piles around the house.

Mr. Pug reads through the mail, tears up what is junk, then he walks away (walking right past the trashcan mind you) leaving the torn pieces on the table.
we don't have a written list

we tried written lists and they don't work
he is a slob but i like a super clean house

we are about equal. i get to the point where the house is just really bothering me and it needs to be cleaned and he's content to let it go longer.
so our compromise is that i do most of the cleaning but he's expected not to exasperate the mess by leaving shit everywhere.

i told him a month ago that if he wants me to take care of the house then he needs to let me do it my way. that means that if i'm motivated to do dishes then i need to do them then not the next day. he'll say something like, "do the dishes tomorrow. let's go watch a movie." then i put them off and put them off and before you know it the kitchen is smelling bad. i need to do it the way i need to do it and he's said this is fine. so when i ask him to do something he's really been good at doing it right then and there. things have been pretty smooth lately on the home front.
Hi, everybody. I've been gone for a few weeks, because I was moving in to his house! So far, everything is going so well. He's acting more affectionate, and the amateur psychologist in me can see that he's more comfortable now, and he feels more confident that I really want to be with him. I love it. The chores are not a problem so far.

But -- what happened to the sex?!? I swear, since I moved in, it's dropped to less than once a week. There's more snuggling than ever, but no nookie. And what sex there has been was initiated by me. The only thing I can think is that I've gained quite a bit of weight in the last 6 months, and I feel ugly and huge. So when he tries to make an advance, I go on about how I feel repulsive. Riiiiiight. I guess I just answered my own question.
Hi guys I guess this would be the place to discuss this issue. My one year marriage anniversary is coming up quickly and I feel so lost or something. Lately or a little longer than that I've been feeling really annoyed with my husband. I feel like he doesn't really love me or something. As a woman I just need to be told or shown that I'm loved and that he's glad that were together and everything. He's never written me a romantic card or letter saying anything of the sort... in fact I received a blank card on valientines day with a teddy bear bought at the last minute on his way home from work... yes I understand he works 12 hours a day at a restaurant.... where I also work so there is not alot of secretive time do plan these romantic surprises... but this stems furthers... It seems like he cant even hug or kiss me goodbye without reaching down there, I feel like everything is about sex. I've been battling BV for sometime now and sex is painful at times and I tell him its painful but i grit my teeth and let me do it just to make him happy and he doesn't even think to forget about his urges because im sick. in fact he gets frustrated when I dont want to have sex and pushes me off like im being some kind of mean bitch. This really hurts my feelings. When ever we have a problem he dosnt want to talk about it, he'll ignore me the whole night and stay in the other room until the next day when he wakes up and pretends it didnt happen while he reaches down there once more.... of course.

I dont know what to do anymore, we were once so in love he would tell me he was thinking about me and call me and draw these little pictures about me and write on the back that he misses me.... but thats all gone since we've been married and live together... i guess in his mind he's secured the prize.

I dont know what else to say and I cant see through my tears anyways... let me know what you think...

are men just big jerks like this? There is way more going on than mentioned here. its just everyday.
(((italianwife))) you sound so frustrated. sounds like you've tried talking to him. but why are you gritting your teeth and going thru pain to make him happy when 1. you're in pain! and 2. he's not making you happy ? all i can suggest is to do (or don't do) what's best for you.
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