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I am not a fan of evolutionary psychology.

In hunter gather societies 90% of the food was produced from gathering, done by women. hunting did not provide as much for early humans.

So that whole analogy of men hunt women gather to describe modern humans is a crock of shit that just reinforces gender stereotypes.

A Better explanation is that men are not socialized to talk about their feelings and women are.

Hubby has admitted to me today that he is mad at me. Huge admission. I am not gonna push it.
If men are innately such good hunters, then why is it that I've never met one who can find what they want in the refrigerator without asking me first? Why can't they hunt down the mustard on their own like their ancestors?
Okay, I'm kidding. But not really. wink.gif

I think the "talking" thing has a lot to do with family up-bringing and socialization. It's true that men in western cultures are not encouraged to talk about their deeper feelings, but there's more to it than that. If his father (or even his family in general) was always quiet and did not express emotions, then he'll probably be the same way. That's what is normal to him.

I was with one man who could talk all. day. long. About anything and everything. Most of my friends think he's annoying because he talks too much (and now that I'm not with him, I can totally see what they're talking about). He's still a fun guy, but he wasn't the one for me.

I ended up marrying a guy who isn't a big talker. He, too, says that sometimes he feels self-conscious. But I've found that if I patiently ask some questions and if I shut my big mouth for a while, he starts to open up. In fact, sometimes he'll ramble on and on about the tiniest little thing. It's an odd combination.

So Obelix, give him a chance. Encourage him a bit. Let him know how much you love hearing his point of view, that you think he's smart or funny or whatever. And try not to talk over him. wink.gif
what a good point about the fridge and men, rose! i was laughing as i was reading it. laugh.gif

man, this conversation about men and talking is helping me with the current guy i'm seeing. he is not a big talker. but, he follows through on what he says he will do. i need more verbal reassurance, but i think that is my own insecurity. i guess i will need to let him know this.

things sound workable obelix and the busties here have given you some great advice. let us know how things go!
Stargazer, there's nothing wrong with wanting some verbal reassurance. Compliments and terms of endearment feel good. Plus, they simply make the relationship happier. Why are you feeling dissatisfied in this department? What is he doing and what would you like him to do?
You ladies are making me feel much better about needing more compliments from my guy. I have spoken to him about this and he has gotten much better. I just get scared and insecure and when he tells me that I look pretty I have a good voice in my head to drown out the other voice.

We talked about living together and he thinks that it is too soon. I don't regret taking the risk but it feels like I am the only one who is risking anything here. He has never said what he feels about me. So far, I have had his actions to go on and that has been mostly enough but last night/today way a snapping point. We went out to breakfast and talked about his plans to buy a house someday. So after we walked out of the restarant I told him that I needed to cancel our plans for tonight. I said that I just needed a night off knowing that while I know that I loved him he still doesn't know what he feels about me. I said that I wasn't ending things but that I just couldn't be in happy date mode while I was this upset. He said that he is trying to figure out where I fit into his future plans. I was crying but I told him that I wasn't angry and that I don't think that he has done anything mean or wrong. I just didn't feel like it was fair for him to have to try to calm me down about something that isn't really his fault. He can't help where he is emotionally anymore than I can.

So I spent the day watching Big Love and crying off and on. I have not called him but I sent him an email saying that I would call him tomorrow. I did ask him not to call me. I wish he was here but I think the day off was a good idea.
QUOTE(roseviolet @ Jan 26 2008, 08:09 PM) *
[font=Georgia]If men are innately such good hunters, then why is it that I've never met one who can find what they want in the refrigerator without asking me first? Why can't they hunt down the mustard on their own like their ancestors?
Okay, I'm kidding. But not really. wink.gif[font]

seriously! mr.nick is not allowed to start a question with "where is MY.....?" how'm i supposed to know where YOU left YOUR shoes? unless i'm tripping over them of course. grr....

(((kittenb))) good job bringing up the tough subject, but it was on your mind, so you had to. and you gave him food for thought. i hope you both continue to talk about it.

i feel like my mind's on a single-track over here, re: marriage. i'm ready, and he's says he's ready. he says his only worries are the expense and planning of a wedding. mine too, of course, but we talked about borrowing against what my parents promise to give us for a down payment, and that it's going to be a small affair anyways. and after a brief discussion of rings, he doesn't want to ruin the fun by shopping together. so now i wait. and i feel like it's consuming my brain! i don't want to be this kind of girl!!!!!! make it stop, please.
QUOTE(LoveMyPugs @ Jan 26 2008, 10:06 AM) *
i don't think men in general are big talkers. they are doers, action takers and fixers. women are sharers and want to discuss and work things out. i think it's in both our natures. the old hunter gatherer thing. we stayed home with other women and chatted while working to pass the time. while the men went out and did the hunting. i don't think the two cavemen were discussing their wives while they were waiting in the brush for the buffalo to come along if you know what i mean.

Now that I read this, I'm sorry I posted it. It's kind of a bad excuse/generalization for men. I guess I just meant that IMO men don't seem to be big talkers.
lovemypugs, no reason to apologize. it is great to have different views in here. and i think you are right to a certain extent. in my work with couples, the majority of male caretakers reported having difficulty in how just listening could be helpful cause they wanted to fix things to make it better for their spouse/partner. i don't find it something men are lacking...i agree with missladyj that men are not socialized to express their feelings. and sometimes, women (at least in heterosexual relationships), will be resentful of men because they do not communicate like us. they don't "know" what we need, but we need to let them know what we need. so, i agree with both views. it would be interesting to hear mr. pugs point of view...

rose, with what i mentioned above, my ambivalence towards the man i am currently seeing is coming into play. and when i'm frustrated, i'm apt to pull out. but, i need to step up to the plate here and communicate my own feelings to model to him what i need. he has been very responsive to me. thanks for asking! wink.gif

(((nickclick))) keep planning and let us know when the engagement happens.

(((kittenb))) congrats on being upfront with your feelings! and double congrats for taking time for yourself too! i guess if you can have faith and trust in how you feeling about the boy (staying confident there) and give him some space to figure out his feelings...who knows where things will go. and i think it is that grey area (the same kind of ambivalence i am feeling) that can truly suck at the beginning of a relationship. and i'm sure there are busties here who will say that it continues down the road. communication. and sometimes knowing when to leave well enough alone. let us know how things go for you.

ETA: oh and kittenb, i think you and i need to just breathe and relax. ha!
Thanks for the reality check, y'all. I know that he is, in general, a great guy to be with. And the problems I have with him are essentially things that he can't change. When I vent my frustrations to my friends, it's usually not that he's done something worth getting mad at. I'm just mad because T is T, and I want him to be somebody else. Every few months I go through a period of wondering if I should be in this relationship if I need him to be somebody he's not.

His shyness and inability to talk have caused more serious problems - the biggest being when I had a full-blown panic attack at his family reunion. I explained afterwards (immediately after the physical symptoms, but still at the party with hours to go) that I needed him to take care of me, because I was fragile and pretty much incapable of dealing with the mass of people around me. Unfortunately, he deals with stressful situations by sitting in one place and not saying a word. It made it absolutely horrible. We were both melting down, and I'm usually there for him when he gets frozen like that, but I couldn't do it that time, and he certainly couldn't be there for me.

I'm also used to people asking me questions while I'm talking; it shows me that they're listening. He almost never asks questions about anything I'm saying, which kinda makes me feel ignored. But months later, he'll mention some tiny thing I said.

Roseviolet- that "not talking over him" thing is spot-on. Every once in a while, he'll start talking about work, his family, everything. At first, I would interject with comments and probing questions. But now I've learned to be quiet and let him talk when he finally gets on a roll. If he pauses for a few seconds, I'll ask a question to get him to continue, and then be quiet again. I miss the way that I talk with my best friend (an ex), though. We shout over each other, laughing, and insult each other, and finish each others' sentences.

Nickclick- Isn't it amazing how we can find ourselves being "this kind of girl"? I hate the idea of a big floofy wedding. I hate jewelry. I hate gold. But damned if I don't want that ring on my finger.
Mr Pugs

My opinion is that of LMP's original...I'm an evolutionary man. I see the differences in men and women and see that women are generally more talkative and multitasking than men are. These are generalizations and not all men or women are like this. A good book we've read was why men don't ask for directions and women can't read maps.

As for the mustard issue, again, I believe it is evolutionary. Men have more tunnel vision and women use something like 80% of their periferial vision. A plain example of this is when you are walking with your man in the mall and you guys are checking out the "hotties". Women don't get busted because you can see and focus out the side of your line of sight. Men are direct lookers, we turn our head to see things. It's kinda like being in a dark room: women have a wide angle flashlight and men have a laser beam to see.

I also have trouble understanding women sometimes. To me it seems like they talk just to talk. I'm more of a substance kinda guy. Often I have to tell my cousin to slow down so I can understand her. If I say something, it's something worth saying, and very concise. When I talk on the phone to another guy, the conversation usually lasts anywhere from 30 seconds to a minute.

I'm not saying one way is better than the other, or that the hunters brought in more food, just that we are wired differently than women. Once you begin to notice the differences, they start to stand out.

Mr. Pugs

That book Mr. Pug mentioned was recommended by a therapist we went to see. It's called

Why Men Don't Listen and Women Can't Read Maps: How We're Different and What to Do About It
Mr Pugs
I was kinda close with the
thanks mr. pugs for a male point of view. i can understand your point. although, short concise conversations of 30 sec-1 min may not be as thoughtful and meaningful as you would like to think. wink.gif i am totally busting your chops. i hope you get my sense of humor. what movie or comedian said that only a man would believe that an inch equals a mile on a map? i think it was roseanne barr.

i wonder what other busties have to say about your point of view...
Hey All, long time no speak.... have been around intermittently, but not raised my opinion ....been dealing with some stuff that has taken up more time, effort and emotion than I would prefer it did...but life is like that.

I have followed the discussion here for a bit, and feel compelled to add some insight from my perspective, which is:
Men are not born with empathic listening skills, they need to learn them, some do this quickly, others take time and experience to get there, and some never can do it. Women have this skill and USE it, even if they do not know that they are doing it, which is why they cannot understand why men don't listen with their hearts....the same way men cannot understand why women don't see the logic that they see....
Men and women were never meant to understand each other, if that were the case, the mystery would disappear, and conversation would be come a void....with no opposing argument. What can help is a clear understanding of moods, surroundings and situations before embarking on a discussion which one of a pair may be ready to discuss, and the other not.
From a personal take on this, my years have taught me that although a partner may have something on her mind and would like to discuss it, my mood may provide a barrier....some preoccupation might be a hinderance.....and the same for vice versa.
Sadly, I wish I had made an effort in past relationships to seek an understanding before trying to 'push' my point, and rather see where the other person is EMOTIONALLY before trying to resolve issues. It seems that my efforts to 'bottle up' my emotions was not the right way to do things, and I am poorer for the experience, but as I mentioned earlier, this is the experience that a lot of mean need. I cannot comment from a woman's perspective, but surely a similar experience would help a girl see why men choose not to discuss things, or open up a bit
I am in a position now, where I wish for someone close that I can confide in... I wish for someone that I could provide reasssurance to when they needed it...I wish for someone that I could entrust my feelings to, and who would choose to have me do the same for them... It's the experience, and we all know that experience is the thing we gain, just after we really needed it...
Mr Pugs
Stargazer, I'm not saying I can portray all my feelings and whatnot in 30 seconds, but when I call one of my close friends and get his voicemail, all I say is "equinca ocho" (from ace ventura 2). That translates to Hey Dean, it's me, call me back when you get this, but it's not an emergency. Kinda funny I think.
This is just the same old nature-vs-nurture debate that we've all heard a thousand times before. Neither theory is absolutely correct, but there's a bit of truth in both.

I don't think all females are born with empathic listening skills. I think most of us - men and women - are pretty selfish when we're young. Some of us just grow out of that faster than others. And maybe we grow out of that because of the way our families raise us or because of the messages society sends us or because of a million other things. And some people never grow out of it. But I think it's pretty insulting to both sexes to imply that either one of them is destined to always behave in one, particular, stereotypical way. Stereotypes exist for a reason, of course, but I believe that people are perfectly capeable of growing and changing into better, well-rounded, human beings.

I think it's better to ignore most of the ol' "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" crap and just accept each individual person as the unique individual that they are. Not all men are talkers, but not all women are, either. If you're involved with a man who isn't a big talker and it makes you unhappy, then you can either (1)accept him as he is or (2)encourage him to talk a bit more or (3)go out and find another guy who will chat with you for hours. Because believe me, they are out there.
QUOTE(Mr Pugs @ Jan 28 2008, 03:51 PM) *
Stargazer, I'm not saying I can portray all my feelings and whatnot in 30 seconds, but when I call one of my close friends and get his voicemail, all I say is "equinca ocho" (from ace ventura 2). That translates to Hey Dean, it's me, call me back when you get this, but it's not an emergency. Kinda funny I think.

yet mr.nick and his guy friends are chatty cathys when the topics are bad karate movies, chinese food, or their farts. (usually these events happen in tandem) go figure.

thanks for listening. no ring yet.......
I agree that men and women communicate very , very differently. MY issue is with the nature vs. nuture argument and when explanations and generalizations suggest that these difference are innate then i have an issue.

evolutionary psychology does not take into account that we are still being impacted by our environment and are still in the process of evolution.

I find that if I am just patient hubby will tell me what is going on with him when he is good and ready. I can't rush it.

We also have some serious nonverbal communication . One day we were on our way to lollapollaza and we had a friend staying with us. The three of us are walking down the street. Hubby grumbles at me and walks away. I continue walking down the street with our friend and he asked where hubby was going. I told him that he said he was gonna wait for us at the bar , and when we are done at the store, we'd meet him back at the bar. Our friend " He said all that ?" i said well I understood him. craziness
Mr Pugs
That's funny, all this time I was hanging out with Mr Nick and never knew it...Tell him to bring some beer over next time we hang
ok, i need some of you to weigh i on this . . .

my hubby left for a week ski trip/ conference on sat. morning. he drove with a friend to his destination with a friend. he took our good car. he left me at home with our two kids, 11yrs and 6mo, and the not so good car which has not been running in the last week at all and is in general very unreliable. he said, "it is just too cold out right now, that's why it won't start" i was not convinced and really just couldn't believe that he was going for a week and leaving me with a car that he know had not been running for the last week. let me add here that we live on an ice and snow covered dirt road, there is no public transportation and it is a very long walk through forest to get to town. (not something i have any interest doing with a 6 mo old baby in the snow.) so, long story short, car didn't start after if warmed up (i stood out there for fucking ever with a blowdrier on the damn thing.) to above freezing. i was totally pissed! he thinks i am being immature and can't believe i am mad. that pretty much just makes me madder. he said when he left that if it didn't start i could always just call my sister (cause she's not to busy, right) or a friend or something if i needed to go some where or something. i do not think i should have to rely on friends and family because he didn't bother to get his crappy car fixed. i had to rent a car for way too much money for he week he is gone. (it really doesn't help that the crap car is his and he is totally attached to it and doesn't want to sell it and i have been saying we should get something reliable). so anyway, we got in a huge fight over the phone and he screamed at me that i was being immature and couldn't believe that i was acting like this. i was soooo pissed! (i can not say i was being overly nice at this point) i replied snidely "like wise". at which point he hung up on me. we have not spoken since and my guess is that he will not call and i am pretty fucking stubborn and will not call either so we will just wait till sun night when he gets back. so basicly i want to know if you think i am being a princess or if i am justified in being pissed.
Let me get this straight.
You are stuck alone. With two small children. In a house in the woods. At the end of a dirt road. Surrounded by ice and snow.
Given your situation, I think it is absolutely reasonable for you to want to have reliable transportation.

Granted, I don't know all of the details involved, but right now you have to do what you have to do to take care of your family. And if that means renting a car until you have access to your own form of reliable transportation, then so be it.
*can opener at the ready in left hand, can of worms in right hand*

What does he need a car for at a ski-trip/conference?

*worms everywhere*
hmmmm. well, i guess he wanted to drive so he could take his climbing and back country gear and it is a PIA to fly with lots of gear so he and a friend drove.

the car i rented is quite nice and drives up my crazy driveway quite well. (better for $350). i think when all is said and dome here it would have been cheaper for him to fly.

i have to say that i have a very good friend who just found out that her husband is cheating on her and she is now dealing with life in a whole new way. her ass hole husband makes me realize that mine is not so bad. sorta helped put it in perspective a little. still not ready to let it all go though.
shinyx3 - we are friends with another couple in a similar situation. She is a stay at home mom and he works. They only have one car. He needs the car to get to work but she is home with two children and needs to rely on her mom and friends to take her places. I think this irritates her and him both but they don't have the money to get a new car. Their situation is a little different from yours. Did your husband need a reliable car on his business trip or could he have carpooled with a coworker? Does he understand that you are concerned that if one of the kids gets sick you need a reliable car to get them to the doctor? Does he realize that you will probably have to get yourself to the grocery store? It just sounds like he wasn't thinking this threw. I mean to me you should have been left with the vehicle. I mean he could have rented a car right? He could also (sorry if this sounds mean) grow up and sell the POS car he is attached to in order to get something more reliable for the good of the family. He sounds like he's being a little immature. That's just my opinion.
You're not being a big baby, Shinyx3, he is. This is a simple matter of him putting his needs (Namely, to get away for a while. Yes, he'll be working some, but playing, too, non?) ahead of the family needs. You should have been left the good car, he has no right to scream about the rental upon return.

I have to ask, though, what is the male obsession with crappy old cars? My bf's soon to be ex has a million year old Camaro he refuses to give up even though it barely runs & is held together with primer & a prayer. It's a piece of shit, but if you even *think* about asking him to do something about it, he looks at you like you've just urinated on his first born. What gives? It's a car! I understand being sentimental, but by his rationale he should have the first chick he ever fucked on a shelf in the garage to match the car.

So . . . he's planning something. I don't know what, but I am concerned this is going to be one of his weird, grand, romantic gestures that just leave me confused.
yes, his priorities should have been and should be in the future:
1. wife and children
2. ease of transporting ski gear

aural, keep us posted!

speaking of babies, ohmygod, mr.nick is sick and i can't stand it. i mean, he's got a cold. i know that's no fun. but the whiny voice and the puppy dog sad face all the time is just too goddamn dramatic for me. yesterday he was actually audibly shivering. like a frickin' cartoon character. i'll bring him juice etc., but he's not getting a 'poor baby' outta me, i'm sorry. it's a cold. it's not the first and not the last one he'll ever get. i'm of the opinion he should learn how to handle it by now. what if he were to (god forbid) contract a more serious disease? he'll die melodrama before any real symptom gets him!
hubby thinks i am immature for being mad, not so much for renting the car. thanks for all the input. makes me feel like i was not being too bitchy.

QUOTE(auralpoison @ Jan 29 2008, 02:18 PM) *
I have to ask, though, what is the male obsession with crappy old cars? My bf's soon to be ex has a million year old Camaro he refuses to give up even though it barely runs & is held together with primer & a prayer. It's a piece of shit, but if you even *think* about asking him to do something about it, he looks at you like you've just urinated on his first born. What gives? It's a car! I understand being sentimental, but by his rationale he should have the first chick he ever fucked on a shelf in the garage to match the car.

So . . . he's planning something. I don't know what, but I am concerned this is going to be one of his weird, grand, romantic gestures that just leave me confused.

I can't tell you how loud I was laughing when I read this "is held together with primer & a prayer." Mr. Pug had an 86 Monte Carlo. It was his baby. It was standing on four flat tires when we sold it when we bought the house and then we went out and bought a Dyson Vacuum with the money. Sometimes I think he wants to paint little yellow and white street lines on the carpet so he can pretend he's driving his "car" when he's vacumming. *vroom vroom*

QUOTE(nickclick @ Jan 29 2008, 02:54 PM) *
speaking of babies, ohmygod, mr.nick is sick and i can't stand it. i mean, he's got a cold. i know that's no fun. but the whiny voice and the puppy dog sad face all the time is just too goddamn dramatic for me. yesterday he was actually audibly shivering. like a frickin' cartoon character. i'll bring him juice etc., but he's not getting a 'poor baby' outta me, i'm sorry. it's a cold. it's not the first and not the last one he'll ever get. i'm of the opinion he should learn how to handle it by now. what if he were to (god forbid) contract a more serious disease? he'll die melodrama before any real symptom gets him!

*gasps* NICKCLICK!!! HE'S SIIIIIICK!! Don't you know the world stops when the man of the house is sick? Come on now. That is Rule 1 in Playing House 101. Mr. Pug is the same way. Once when I was sick years ago he let me off the hook for cooking dinner. He ordered out, but the next night it was...are you cooking dinner? Um...NO! The bigger the man, the bigger the baby and Mr. Pug is 6'4" and pushing 270lbs. You know what I'm saying? laugh.gif
OMG! I'd rather deal with six collick-y babies than one sick man. True story: I go back to pick up the empty bowl of HOMEMADE chicken noodle soup & to refill his gingerale. He looks at me dolefully & sniffs, "Next time, could you make it not so hot?" Next time you can drink it from the can, motherfucker.
so true so true. sick woman goes about her day not feeling well. sick man whimpers fusses whines and doesn't do anything because he's sick.

i have to say though that there are a few exceptions but not many.
AP, that is ridiculous! And exactly what temperature is preferable, hmm? Does he have a specific number in mind? Or pehaps you should just sit by his side & blow on each spoonful of soup for him before you feed it to him. rolleyes.gif

Thank goodness Sheff doesn't get like that when he's sick. He kinda likes to be left alone when he's sick. He might ask me to get a drink for him, but it's always with a "please" and a "thank you".
ulg I am so frustrated right now.

My boy lost his job last week. We are planning on moving in a month or so, so it isn't a huge deal, plus we have money coming in about a week so finances are covered for a bit. The problem I am having is that he spend all day playing video games, and talking to people via myspace instead of trying to find a temp job or whatever needs to be done around the house. The not trying to find a job thing is okay with me (sort of) but the other things aren't. He has been talking to this girl that he used to crush on and they have been talking about getting together, with me included but still. He is also talking to this friend of a friend girl that sent him a myspace mail because she just moved to the area and knows no one. His plans with these girls all involve me, but I am still upset about it. I know that he loves me and I hope I know that he would never cheat on me but this is still eating at me.

I've tried talking to him about it, but I end up getting really upset and he views it as me overreacting. The reason it has been bothering me so much is because he spends all day doing this while I am hard at work everyday. When I come home he has been in a horrible mood and snapping at me a lot. In his defense I have been sorta snappy as well, mainly because of the stress of moving, all this business with him, and also kinda more emotional because I have my period.

I'm really frustrated with this and I can't tell if I am overreacting, or if I really have something to be concerned about. We usually have very good communication but lately we have been pissy with each other and can't have a civil conversation without being snide with each other.
thanks for the laughs.... he says please and thank you, but it's in between ridiculous statements like - i think my fever gave me brain damage! his nonsense is giving me brain damage. and - why am i so tired? uh, you've been in bed all day, maybe? if he answers a question with - because i'm sick - one more time, ugh! like - i can't eat that. why? because i'm sick! no duh! what's your specific reason????? or - i can't drive to the doctor tomorrow. why? because i'm sick! aaaahhhh!!!!

tankgirl, sounds like you're both going thru a stressful time right now. and sounds like he's trying to escape the reality of it. but that's immature. he should definitely be doing his part and more to get ready for your move.

You gals talking about sick men are reminding me of this Ask Metafilter thread: "How do I stop my husband getting sick when I'm sick?"

That whole thread (especially the comment from the woman with double pneumonia, a fever of 103, and a husband who was lying down on the couch because "my throat is itchy") makes me want to hug my sweetie for not pulling that shit. It never crossed my mind that grown men would act that way.
i totally did myself in. i have a 102 fever! and guess who's waiting on me? mr.nick. i'm an a-hole supreme. a sick a-hole. sad.gif
So M and I have gone through so much in the short time that we have been together. I have had to deal with him having been in prison, I have had to deal with his son being a major brat. I have come to love his son very much and he was just testing me; I suppose to see if I could hang. Well, I have proven myself.

I am glad that were are going through all of this that way we get it all out of the way.... huh.gif That is how I am keeping it all under control in my brain.

His brother and his sister-in-law and thier baby are staying with him....ugh mad.gif
They do nothing.
They don't give him any money for anything.
They spend the little money they have on crap.
M refuses to ask them for anything.
He says he has a big heart.

He spent money on coming traveling to see me and he got the flu really bad.... He could barely breath and his body was aching....his jerk of a brother didn't bother to help him get medicine or anything.
On Tuesday I wired him some money to get food and meds. He felt so bad, he got paid today and already sent it back.

Today we had a talked and I told him that I was tired of them being there and not helping him out. He said that things are going to be different when I am there and it's only going to be about the three of, him, and his son.

Being in a relationship is really hard.... does it ever get easier?..... the difficult parts are not even about he and I it's about other things.
QUOTE(sexysandee @ Jan 31 2008, 01:53 PM) *
Being in a relationship is really hard.... does it ever get easier?..... the difficult parts are not even about he and I it's about other things.

Yeah, being in a relationship is hard at times. Those times come and go often over the years. Most of the times when Mr. Pug and I disagree it's not even about "us". It's about our family (usually mine). I think any person in a LTR in this thread can attest to that. But when there are good times, they are usually very good and make it worth it. You sound like you are both working hard to make it work. That's good. As long as it's a joint effort you'll make it. Good luck and come in here to vent or ask for advice like the rest of us do. We are all here for one another right?
LoveMyPugs ~ Thank you *big hug*
Hi, committed Busties. I have a question/request for advice for you guys.

I'm about to move in with the boy (hee! he turns 40 soon). I've lived with my SO before, but it was always at my place, and it was never a permanent situation. I'm really looking forward to the move, and he is too. We've talked about cleaning out some closets for me, what furniture will go where, how I'm going to revamp the garden, and some basic money stuff (he owns the house and will not charge me rent. I'm going to volunteer to take over all the bills, but haven't yet).

But I know there will be some pitfalls. Do any of you have words of advice for me? Any ground rules? Anything that we should be sure to talk about before the big day? Anything? I really want this to work, and I know it can. I don't want us to be derailed by some piddly little fight.

His barnacle of a brother and the brother's kid are mooching off of him now, and I won't be moving in until they move out of the basement. It sounds like that might be sooner rather than later, so we've started getting excited.
Obelix, I love living w/ my mister but it took us at least a year to understand what the other needed. We had a great time at first, got all giggly about grocery shopping together etc, but soon enough our (pretty fundamental) differences arose.

Essentially, I'm pretty clean and fairly tidy. I like order to my day, like to know what I'm having for dinner in advance and like to eat at set times. I'm usually pretty busy, so a regular domestic routine is important to me.

He on the other hand never knows what he'll want for dinner until about 8ish, is untidy and to be honest is pretty bad about not cleaning around the house. On the other hand, he'll come home with big bags of lovely indulgent food for us and cooks a great thai green curry.

It's taken a while but basically we've learned to suit ourselves during the week, as our schedules don't really match, so we don't always eat together. At the weekends however we hang out together almost all the time.

This resolves the importance of having good time together, but not the cleaning issue. I still do a lot of the housework, but he buys a lot of the food and will drive me on errands. It's not 100% equal but then, a relationship isn't math. He's very emotionally supportive of me and conversely, I know when I'm facing deadlines I can be selfish and a pain in the ass. It balances out for us, but it took a while.

Part of our problem was that we didn't communicate well about this at all, so it took us longer than it should have to find a way to live happily together. For us it even affected the sex; I'd get resentful, which put me completely off sex. Not fun.

I think we're somewhat extreme in that we're especially set in our respective ways, but I know many couples who had a tricky time for a while. Try to recognise that you may well have different routines, ways of doing things. Pick your battles. Try and figure out what's non-negotiable for you and what you can compromise on. We both need time by ourselves, either to work or relax, but we recognise this in each other and don't take it personally anymore.

Hope this helps; sorry about the novel! Good luck and do have fun with it. I do believe living together definitely brings a new layer of intimacy which can bring you closer together.

Oh, we also live with his teenage daughter most of the time, but that's another post...
good luck and congrats obelix! all of the fun definitely outweights the annoying. mr.nick and i have lived together since the summer, and this is my second time cohabitating with a boyfriend.

same here as with sybarite and her mr. with the cleaning personalities. mr.nick literally doesn't see the messes that i see. dust? what's dust? so yes, i pick my battles, and clean, rather than whine all the time. before we cohabitated, i did ask that he contain his messes to certain areas, and be considerate when i ask him to clean up or move stuff. so far he has obliged. he shops for, plans and cooks most meals. thankfully, because i frickin hate cooking and i love eating. we both do our own laundry, and he takes out garbage and deals with the furnace and other 'manly' stuff.

it's a pretty fair trade and yeah, we definitely talked about it before we moved. i mean, we didn't make a detailed list of chores or anything, but i'm glad we didn't go into it without talking it out first.

all in all, anytime i want to strangle him with the dirty sock that he left on the floor, i try to be thankful that these things are the only complaints i have about living with him. we're pretty busy during the week, so i like our few hours together at nite. and we'll definitely do our own thing quite a bit too. it's all about balance. if he was up my ass 24/7, then it wouldn't work. but if one of us was never home, that would suck too.
might i caution you obelix, to communicate communicate communicate! you mentioned that he will be 40 but did not say your age. i am guessing you are younger, no? be sure this does not make for different ideas in gender roles that are not communicated about. that said, i am married to a wonderful man who is 18 yrs my senior. it has taken us quite a while to learn to compromise with the others ideas. nick is right about picking your battles for sure. examine what you need out of this relationship and be upfront and honest about it. communication can make it work or destroy it if there is a lack. it sounds like you are really willing to put forth the effort to make it work. enjoy the giddy happy feeling and talk your way through the "how could he be so dumb" moments and remember that there will be times when he is thinking the same of you, and it will likely be soooo worth it! good luck
Thanks for the advice. I'm 31, so there's almost a decade between us.

The "pick your battles" idea is so hard for me. Usually I'm calm and I don't get flustered. But then certain tiny things bug the hell out of me, and I can't let go of them. Afterwards, I feel silly that I made such a big deal out of nothing. It also makes for a confused SO, because I swing between being "whatever" about everything to flipping out because somebody is ten minutes late. But I will try.

It's interesting to hear you guys talk about schedules. I hadn't thought of that, but I'm sure there will be some friction. I work 8-5, and I want my breakfast right before I leave and my dinner as soon as I get home. His schedule lets him have breakfast after a leisurely dog walk and he doesn't usually eat dinner until 8 or so, which for me is getting-ready-for-bed time. Hmmmm... I hadn't considered meals apart. Not that it's bad. I just can't be trusted alone in a house with food. I'll eat half a loaf of bread for one meal and have pickle juice with a can of beans for the next.

I think we're similar on the cleaning laid-back-ness. But I'm sure the differences will appear soon enough.

Communication is one of the problems in our relationship. He just doesn't talk much, and will hold back until there's an impass. Because of this, I had developed a habit of saying "you're mad", "you don't want to go out to dinner", etc, which forced him to agree or disagree. Then last night he finally told me to stop telling him how he felt. And I felt like a heel. I need to find a language that we can both use. My Lazy-Boy is not going to decide on its own where it goes in his house.

You really gave me a few things to think about! Thank you so much!
I have decided to end it with M. Maybe I am a bad person and I cannot get over the fact that he was in prison. I also am very afriad of what he might do if things go wrong later in life. He has a horrible temper. I think it's true that we tend to end up with me like our fathers and if I stay with M that is exactly what I would be doing.
I feel very confused and lost right now. I am hurting inside.
If you see me in the threads and I am joking around and having fun that is how I cope.
I will write about this more in another thread when I feel a little better.

Thank you all in this thread for all the help and support
Honestly Sandee, I'm glad you didnt go through with it. I have been lurking in here for some weeks now and read your posts. I was worried. You should always trust your instincts babe. You never know how someone truly is until you live with them. And I was really afraid that if you moved all the way out there that you'd be miserable and stuck. Thank God you ended it. I just hope that your heart will be healed from all this. Its tough having to give up someone you love. I wish you the best girl! BIG HUGS!!
Thank you so much Konphusion, I really needed to hear that smile.gif
kudos sandee, for being so smart and strong! hurts now, but better than anything worse you might have gone thru later. cope however works best for you. busties get you thru shit, believe me!

i was once naive enough to think an ex-bf-s bad temper would NEVER be directed at me. he loves me too much. i won't do anything to piss him off. well, it took a while, but of course it happened. and it sucked. and i'm so glad (and proud of myself too, i must say) that it's far far away from me now.
yeah well done Sandee, i had also been lurking and while not wanting to jump to conclusions, it sounds like you have made a wise decision. the temper thing sounds concerning.

with the great housework divide, something that worked well for me was saying - 'which 2 rooms do you want to clean, i'll do the other two'. Before, i would spend saturday mornings cleaning while he was at the gym, and i don't think he really noticed that it got done.

This takes me to my other piece of learning - i can clean the flat to a decent standard in a couple hours while he will take 2 hours to clean our tiny bathroom. I think he is anal, he probably thinks i am slapdash. So my other rule is - if one person is nice enough to do chores, the other person doesn't criticise how they do it. I do have to bite my tongue sometimes though (like when he has polished the shiny lid of the bathroom bin to perfection but not done anything else all morning and i want to go out for lunch)!!

on another note, can i just say that valentine's day is soooo lame.
good for you Sandee, that was a tough decision

Yeah, I hate Valentines Day, because I always have high expectations, and they are never met. I know I should just expect less of my boy, but I grew up in a house where my Dad surprised my Mom every year with something meaningful and awesome. Even when I specify that I would like flowers and candy, the boy just ignores me, because I'm talking about "girl stuff". So today, no flowers, no candy. I end up feeling disappointed and bitchy.
I know he got me something, he's not stupid. Although, he did invite his roommate to our dinner tonight. I don't know why I bother.

Happy heart day everyone! (((valentines vibes)))

Even before we moved in together the Missus and I divided up the chores with the understanding it was essential to keep the peace. To divide up the chores the Missus and I made two lists, one list was the chores we didn't mind, the second was the chores we hated. she does the chores I hate and I do the chores she hates, strangely enough the chores I hate are the ones she doesn't mind and vice versa. I took that to mean that we were meant to be together.

Happy Valentines day all! wub.gif
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