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I've never heard it either, Zoya. Good one!

And i totally agree with the advice given below. I held onto guys in situations even when i knew deep down it wasn't going to work, and the only thing it caused was more unnecessary pain on my part.

When my ex broke up with me he said "It's not you, it's me", and I remember saying "Well, obviously! I'm amazing!". Honestly, I was shocked he'd even think I would think otherwise rolleyes.gif

I also remember his saying something about hoping to find someone better in the future, and I corrected him saying "Better for you. Because honestly, looking at it objectively, it's not very likely you'll find someone better than me".

I have a very healthy ego smile.gif . I was actually really upset by the break-up, but even while he was dumping me and it felt like I was being kicked in the stomach, I was mostly thinking what an idiot he was to dump me.

(((KeraBear))) I'm really sorry, it's horrible. In many ways, the first break-up really is the worst.
QUOTE(Persiflager @ Mar 23 2011, 11:58 AM) *
When my ex broke up with me he said "It's not you, it's me", and I remember saying "Well, obviously! I'm amazing!". Honestly, I was shocked he'd even think I would think otherwise rolleyes.gif

I also remember his saying something about hoping to find someone better in the future, and I corrected him saying "Better for you. Because honestly, looking at it objectively, it's not very likely you'll find someone better than me".

I have a very healthy ego smile.gif . I was actually really upset by the break-up, but even while he was dumping me and it felt like I was being kicked in the stomach, I was mostly thinking what an idiot he was to dump me.

(((KeraBear))) I'm really sorry, it's horrible. In many ways, the first break-up really is the worst.

Ha ha... I love it! I think I will try to adopt that attitude. smile.gif I guess he just couldn't handle my awesomeness. wink.gif

AP - Thanks for dropping the science on me. smile.gif I love how you just tell it like it is and you are so refreshingly blunt. I definitely took your advice to heart.

Zoya - Hang in there. Your stubborness when it comes to men will someday pay off!

Thanks again, everyone... I am definitely feeling better. I will be starting college next fall and truth be told, I am glad that I am going into it single. Bring it! ')
QUOTE(KeraBear @ Apr 1 2011, 04:20 PM) *
Zoya - Hang in there. Your stubborness when it comes to men will someday pay off!

oh, it did. That's what I was saying - it wasn't til I stopped putting up with any less than what I knew I needed that a really good one just dropped in my lap out of nowhere. For once, I don't have to convince a guy of anything, or try to make things work, or work really hard at things - he's just into giving me what I need, and into forming a relationship in general. He never leaves me guessing, and he pretty much ticks all the boxes on my mental list for what I want in a guy.

Not to say that it's always easy - we butt heads on certain things, like we don't really gravitate to the same clothes or art or music - but we both respect and appreciate each other's likes and are into learning about them. And we struggle a bit with the nuts and bolts of communication - we are so similar in our communication styles that we actually drive each other crazy at times (then usually end up laughing about it) but WHAT we're trying to communicate does naturally jibe with one another. Plus the fact that, at the moment, he's 5000 miles away makes things a bit difficult (luckily I travel for work and have loads of frequent flyer miles and he's accrued a bunch over time that he's never used til now - so we're lucky, we can travel to see each other for now. Plus video Skype rules)

However, the big things, the really essential stuff in a relationship that was always so heart wrenching for me in the past, is just so easy with this guy. I realize now that when a guy knows what he wants in life, and one of those things is you, he gets invested in it and it's refreshingly 50/50. The fact that he's a total gift giver is a nice bonus, too... wink.gif
hi, I'm new here, I am not sure if this is the right place to post this, I think I just need to vent (sorry)... I have never told anyone this, except for my therapist!

People who know me see me as a happy, cheerful, bubbly person... but inside I am really bitter and angry. All through my 20s I was quite fat (due to medication that I was taking) and had many experiences with men who were abusive or took advantage of me. People were constantly telling me that I just needed to try harder, to not try so hard and seem desperate, to wear the "right" makeup, not wear too much makeup, approach men, let men approach me, etc etc... I ended up blaming myself for seeming to only attract men who thought I was "easy" & that I must have no self esteem because of my weight. So I decided to just forget about sex/dating/relationships and just focus on my life, my friends, etc.

Now I am 34. When I was 31 my medical condition had improved enough for me to stop taking the meds. I lost a lot of weight. I am used to being ignored by men or harassed about my weight and it is a very strange experience to now get "complimentary" harassment from them. Inside I still feel like the girl who was told that she was only good as a "practice girl".

I am trying to change the way I think and not to let my past affect the present. But I have now become the stereotypical angry, bitter man hater. I think men can tell this and stay away from me (I have not been approached or been on a date for 8 years). I wish I could just be happy with my life the way it is, I really feel that I am too messed up to have a relationship now. (everyone tells me to "just forget about men and a good one will suddenly appear!" that is sweet but I had forgotten about them for many years, now I am being realistic about my situation..!)

I see that my single female friends (who actually do want a boyfriend and who don't have the issues that I do) constantly struggle with finding a good relationship. If they are having so much trouble, what does it mean for me, who is seriously messed up? I wish I could just accept the fact that I will be single for the rest of my life.

sorry to be so depressing. It is scary for me to be so angry & pessimistic. Therapy helps in some ways but in other ways it is making me more of an angry person (I'm no longer blaming myself for men's abuse but the men themselves instead!)
(now I see that I should have posted in "Frustrated Singles", but I could only see this topic when I first logged in! oops...)
no problem, threads drop off into obscurity if they haven't been posted in for a while, so i just bumped it up for you :)
Hey ladies,

I'm looking for advice as always and if anyone's read Academia Nuts lately you might know my current situation with my bf and graduate school. In short, he only got into 1 phD program in his field, and that program is unfunded, as well as about 8 hrs away from home. His other options might be to go to a better master's program than the one he is currently in and re-apply for a funded phD program in 2 years, which might significantly increase his chances of getting into a funded program. This school is much better than where he is currently finishing up a master's in general psych (which you can't do anything with! if anyone has any ideas let me know!) , and would give him a master's much closer to his interested field (which is neuro-related). If he made the most of the program much more than he did at his current master's program where he really wasn't too challenged or interested, he would likely boost his resume significantly. But this would be a 2 year program that would cost 30,000 per year (still better than an unfunded 5 year phD program at 40,000 per year). The last option would be for him to defer enrollment at the phd program for a year and try to find a job or something in his field to give him better research experience, etc- but he tried that a year ago and failed to find any jobs or extra experiences. This is much better explained in the academia nuts thread, but that was my best attempt at summarizing hahah.

So now there is me in this whole bf graduate school mess. We've been dating for 3 years now and I'm pretty sure he would be the one, but at this point in our lives I just don't know what to do. I am graduating from my master's program in may and I have been putting off looking for jobs because I don't know where he is going and what I am going to do depending on where he goes. I am very close to my family and I'm not sure that I want to be that far away for 5 years if he decides to go into the unfunded phd program (which might be crazy in and of itself but it's his dream unfortunately). We have also never lived together so I'm not even sure how that would go. The better master's program he got into is about 2 hrs away from home, which is much more do-able, but still don't know if I should re-locate or not. It would be much easier for me to find a job in the area where I am currently living due to some connections I have made. I also applied for a residency program to give me extra hands-on clinical experience that is going to be in this state, and if I get into that program then I decided I have to stay in the area.

I am just so torn over this because during the whole 3 years we've been together we've both been in grad school and living at home with our parents. I want nothing more than to move in with him and I've been looking forward to that day for a couple of years now. I'm 26 years old and I want to start my life and I'm sick of us being apart even as much as we are because we live in separate towns. For the past year or so we've talked about "our" apartment and I only envisioned us doing it all together because I just assumed that is what would happen. The far away phd program was supposed to be a last resort and I honestly never thought it would come to this. The idea of now having to go it alone when I had been picturing "us" all this time is just killing me. We've waited so long for this and now it looks like we are going to be waiting even longer unless I relocate. My friends only want the best for me and they've pointed out that I've worked so hard and now I'm at the start of a new career and I should do what I want and get the job I want and live where I want and enjoy finally having some money and a life for myself. But now it looks like that life won't really have him as much in it. They think all women should live independently for awhile and think I should just get my own apartment and let my bf decide whatever he wants to do and do long distance for awhile if it comes to that. I have never lived alone in my whole life though, always had roommates in college, and don't know what that would be like. Sure I could get a roommate now, but I've had so many disaster roommate experiences and I'm so sick of walking on eggshells around other people. I want my own place and the only other person I want living in it is my bf. But if I move to live with him, not only will finding jobs be more difficult and maybe less of what I want to do, but I will be in charge of all of the financial stuff because I'll be the one with the job while he is in school and I'll have to support both of us. Not to mention the fact that if he goes into the unfunded program he will have all these loans that he can never pay back, which will inevitably fall on me as well. On the other hand (my god this is exhausting sorry guys!) the first year of my new job is going to be so stressful and scary that I can't picture doing it without his shoulder to lean on. He has helped me all throughout graduate school and essentially been my rock whenever I became overwhelmed (which was quite often) and I don't know what I will do without him there for me when I really need him. There is just something so comforting about getting home from a hard day at work and knowing that it will be better once I see him. I won't have that anymore and I'm afraid I'll start living for the weekends like I did the last time I was in a long distance relationship and that was the only time we could see each other. The rest of the week was so hard to get through because I just wanted the weekend to come. I don't want to spend the whole week at my job wishing it was the weekend so I could just see him (assuming he goes 2 hrs away where I could easily make the commute).

Ugh sorry about the long exhausting word vomit. He just has to decide what to do by this coming Friday and I really need to start looking for jobs somewhere so I need to decide what I am going to do too. So do I stay if he goes and get my own apartment for the first time ever? Or do I go wherever he goes and adjust my life so we can be together? I am just so confused, help me!
(((buttercups))) If your choice as a couple is to be together, then you might have to be flexible in how that might look. Most couples experience a challenge when one partner has to relocate for education/employment reasons. But, the couples I know who have done it successfully have made it work because they are supportive of each other and being together is more important.

That's a rough situation, and I'm sorry you're so stressed. My thoughts are as follows (apologies for business-like tone, I'm at work!):

1) Getting your own place

You have no idea how liberating, and relaxing, and generally wonderful it is to live alone for a while, especially after you've been living at home!
I don't think it would be as stressful as you're thinking, because you'd have your OWN PLACE! And even if your bf doesn't live there full-time, he could leave some of his stuff there for when he visits and you could put up nice photos of you both.

2) Re-locating with your bf

buttercups, this a huge decision to make, and would really need to be a joint one. Do you know if your bf wants/expects you to re-locate? And if he wants/expects you to financially support him?

You're thinking of sacrificing 60-200k for your bf's dream, even though you don't think he'll ever earn enough to justify the expense.
It sounds like it would negatively impact on your career, and you're currently the partner with the better career prospects.

As a couple, do you really think this is the right decision? Think of how it will impact your future ability to pay for a wedding, or buy a house, or travel.

I also worry about this sentence:

"If he made the most of the program much more than he did at his current master's program where he really wasn't too challenged or interested, he would likely boost his resume significantly."

You're making excuses for the fact that he didn't make the most of his master's degree, which presumably also cost a lot of money. He should be old enough now to take responsibility.

In really harsh, horrible terms: What makes you think that this is worth the investment?

To me, and I'm being very mean here, further study without funding or reasonable job prospects sounds incredibly indulgent. I'm all for following dreams, but there's a time when we need to grow up and get jobs that will pay the bills if we want to live adult, financially independent lives.

I want to share with you the experience of one of my friends, which I think is relevant. My friend L has a boyfriend D, and they were crazily in love and good together (and I say that as one of her best friends who would want only the best for her).

Anyway, they moved in together after about a year of dating. Both 25ish, she had a job in HR while studying for further professional qualifications, and he had a generic office job. She's been to university and he hadn't.

Eventually, he decided that he would like to go to university after all - that he's missed out on the whole student experience, and that the lack of a degree was holding him back.

He was torn between doing English Lit, and social work (that would lead straight into a job when he graduated).

She said "D, I love you, but there's not way I'm going to support us while you waste 3 years being a lazy student. By the time you finish, you'll be nearly 30, and you'll have racked up student loans. How will this help us to buy a house so that we can raise adorable kids?" (They are both keen on having kids).
She said "If you want to study a proper vocational course that will lead to a better career, then I will support you. We can both move back home with our parents, and I can save up the deposit for a house while you're studying. And I'll help you study! But I will not put myself or us through this just indulge your whim."

He chose social work and is doing really well, as is she, and in a year he'll have graduated and they'll be able to start their life properly together.

I think that in a long-term relationship there are times when you have to be tough and realistic with your partner.

Hi Persi,

Thanks so much for all of your great advice, and I could always use some tough love so always feel free to be honest with me!

Currently, the situation has changed quite a bit. He actually found out that if he goes to his ph.d program this year he will have no option of funding for the following years cause they only offer it to first year students. He has the option of deferring enrollment until next year and then he will be in competition for funding with the incoming students again. So he might end up in the same position next year, but at this point he is choosing to defer for a year so at least for right now he won't be moving away. I think this gives us a lot more time to think and I am going to get my own place this year and then he can stay there are much as he wants and we can try out the living together thing. I think I would feel much more comfortable re-locating with him next year if we have a trial run of living together under our belt.

If he doesn't get funding next year, well like I said we will be back in the same position and you're right Persi, I am the one with the better career aspects. I'm not positive that I should take on that debt and I'm still not sure about what I would do about that. We definitely wouldnt be able to get married/buy a house or all of that other stuff that I do want to do for at least the next 5-7 years * sigh * I guess the only good thing is that I don't want kids (he does) so I don't feel as much of a rush to settle down. But I would still like to get married before I'm in my mid-late 30s if we're together, and would be pretty disappointed if I have to wait even longer (I'm 26 now and we've been dating for 3 years).

I honestly don't know if this will be worth the investment, but I guess I'm lucky that now we'll have a little more time to figure it out, even though he is completely depressed and miserable about it at the moment. I wish he would find something else more manageable that he's interested in, but I don't want to be the one responsible for him not being able to do the thing that he wants to do the most. But it really isn't very realistic at this point. Part of me feels like this deferment is just postponing the inevitable. How do I tell someone that I wish he would put our relationship first when this is what matters most to him in the world? Do you think I have any right to?

Hey buttercups! I was wondering what happened with you guys. That sucks for him, but sounds much better for you. Yay for getting your own place! biggrin.gif

Yes, I think you definitely have a right to tell him what you think, and I also think you have a responsibility. This is going to have a big effect on your life too (especially if you're helping him with his debt).

I don't think you will be the one responsible for him not being able to do this if you just explain to him why you think this isn't very realistic. It's not your fault that he didn't get funding. Is there any way he can get a job in his field without getting a phD? Maybe something a bit lower-status, like lab assistant, but at least he'd be involved. I think that maybe he should be more creative in how he looks at his dream. And judging from what you said about his master's program, the academic route might not be the best route for him anyway.
Buttercups, I agree with Persi, I think you should tell him how you're feeling. In my experience, letting things like that stew in you only results in resentment and anger coming out at inappropriate times.

It sounds like he's feeling really frustrated and stuck and can only see his basic options - I think Persi put it well in that maybe he needs to be more creative with how he looks at things. I can imagine he's extremely frustrated right now and it probably doesn't even feel like a possibility to explore other options but hopefully after he has some real time to let it all think in and think about all the logistics and realities he'll be a bit more open.

I'm going through something somewhat similar with my partner now as he's been trying to figure out what he wants to do next. He's been working at a dead-end factory type job for 8 years, has a degree but doesn't want to pursue anything related to that degree, and generally has been spending his time feeling depressed, frustrated and useless because he doesn't know what to do next. He recently made a decision about his next move that was very different from what I expected but after he actually MADE the decision his whole attitude changed and it's like he can see a lot more possibilities out there.

It sounds like it's a really good idea to defer because that will give him some real time to think about whether this move to his PhD makes sense, and it will give the two of you time to explore your options and make a decision about your relationship. Hopefully he'll be able to get a bit more perspective over the next few weeks and months.
Well he has definitely decided to defer enrollment and he seemed a bit brighter today, he's at least feeling better knowing what's going on with school finally. It was such a long wait and I think he's just at least relieved that a decision has been made at least for the moment.

Persi I wish he would be a little more creative with this whole thing, so far he doesn't see any other way to get a job other than to get a ph.d. His masters is in general psych so there isn't a whole lot he could do with it, but I recently suggested that he go get certified in counseling or something and he didn't seem to enthused. At least we have a year to explore some of those options too.

Ketto I'm sorry to hear that you have been going through a similar experience with your guy, I hate that frustration and depression. And the moping gets pretty old after awhile (not that mines been moping for too long but my ex dropped out of college and worked restaurant jobs and was- and is- completely miserable for years). It sounds like he has figured it out though, and that's great! I hope more than anything that it all works out for him and that his attitude stays positive, for both of your sakes!

I do feel kinda guilty that things have worked out more in my favor and he won't be leaving. I've been trying to stay out of things and make it completely up to him to decide what he wants to do up until this point because I really didn't want to get blamed for him not being able to do what he wants to do. I don't want him to think that I'm happy that this hasn't worked out for him just because I'm getting what I want now. I think maybe after the sting of all this rejection and not going to school this year has worn off a bit I can discuss how realistic it will be for him to go to school next year without funding should that be the case.

In any event, thanks for all the support everyone! We'll see what happens next... (hopefully moving out!)...
It seems the lounge has all but ended it's viability. So it's possible my posting will go unanswered, but I'd like to try. I used to be on here ages ago and venting and learning to reply to others as part of the community- then I just didn't stop by for a very long time, forgot passwords, etc. Anyway. I came because I need some help.
I'm in a relationship with a guy I've been dating for over a year. When we met in March '13 he was at the end of a divorce- stupid mistake of a marriage, mad at himself for having been in it, etc. But he seemed to be handling it all well and wanting to move on with his life. Things began and were pretty great. At the time he worked in the gas fields in northeast PA, I would go to location on weekends, he worked like 12 hour shifts but would come back to the camper where he live on site- we would have a good time, watch movies, cook together, have fun, and have a lot of sex. In June his divorce finalized. He kind of went off the radar. He wasn't communicating as much, I'd go see him but there were several wknds he wanted to be alone because he wasn't actually working as much and was needing to move things out of their shared home, etc. At first I chalked it up to just the divorce. But then it felt weird. I confronted him. I offered him his out because my gut was telling me there was more going on- other women. He denied anything about anyone else, told me I was the only woman in his life, etc, and when I offered the out to end things he didn't take it. Sex ended for the most part. He was withdrawn and it was just off. By August things seemed better, his birthday, felt closer to each other, started fly fishing together and got back to some physical life together and then into Sept and the job situation for him was grim. No new opportunities and probably none for months. He made calls and found out about the booming oil fields in NM. And west Texas. He left in September for NM and said he would like me to come out and be closer. I couldn't live on site but there's towns nearby etc. I'm a therapist and there's always need for PTAs in the rehab/skilled nursing settings. Found a job 3 hrs from him and moved. Across the country to Texas to be with him.
I got out here in January- stayed with him for a few weeks and started my job. I left everyone behind, I sold or donated most everything I owned, and added some things to his storage unit back east. For 2-2.5 months things were going along. But no sex. He was working literally 24/7, no days on/days off schedule. He was exhausted. And apparently felt any distraction could create a problem for the job- thinking if he missed something and there was an oil spill because he was having sex with me he could lose this very lucrative job. He was trying to make back to money he lost in the divorce. The fatigue, headaches, weight gain- all of it was worse than anything for him and contributed to his lack of desire.
However, it was at this point I finally snooped. I looked in his old phone- which he had gotten a new one in early January. I found messages upon messages of communication with at least 7 women- messages of meeting up with them, sleeping with them- one was in Canada and around that time I had finally sent an email offering the out because I knew something was wrong and he had replied that he'd gone to canada to clear his head- he knew I was special and that scared the hell out of him. He was upset about the divorce and so on. So between June until August he was either actually sleeping with these women or communicating in seriously explicit was with them- how he wanted to fuck them in ass, couldn't wait for a rim job from one, wanted one to wear knee pads and suck his cock -you get the picture.
I confronted him. We discussed argued -I yelled and cried. He apologized. His only explanation is that the divorce happened and he didn't give a shit about anything. We talked and talked for a while. Like a weekend. Then it seemed he was done discussing it. We ended up having sex that weekend because I initiated it. Couldn't stand it anymore and thought maybe this will be the turning point. He wanted me out here. He cares about me much more now, he wants this with me or else I wouldn't be here because he never would have asked.
It wasn't a turning point for sex. We haven't had any since and my bringing it up makes him frustrated- he is still tired all the time. He has gained weight and still has headaches, he threw his back out lifting his dog, etc. So he won't touch me. He kisses me, he hugs me, but that's it. When I asked a couple of weeks ago if this was still going on because he felt obligated to stay with me he said no. When I've asked if he's attracted to me or not since he won't sleep w me- he claims he is. However everything feels very familiar. Like last year. The chasm between us continues. I need to talk about stuff to get over this. He doesn't want to talk about it. He will answer questions sometimes but he doesn't make much effort to help me get over it. And I lived out there- I know the schedule, I know how tired I get when I'm there for a weekend. But it's not helping US.
So. I don't know what to do. I need to confront him again. Get to the bottom of what is really happening because this relationship is the reason I am across the country. If it doesn't work I'm going home. I have no desire to stay in a relationship w someone who doesn't want me- but I can't figure out why he keeps me in his life if he doesn't want me. Nothing makes sense. And I don't know what to believe when he speaks anymore. I've offered the out again- he says he doesn't want out and that should tell me something. I've reminded him of last year. He says it's only me. I reminded him he said that a year ago. The problem is that I do actually think it's only been me for a long time- but this disconnect. Is it guilt over the cheating and he doesn't want to sleep a me because of that? Is it guilt that I actually moved here and he feels he has to stay with me because I changed everything in my life for him- the obligation? What is it that has him staying with me?
I know I'm a good person. I am kind and thoughtful and honest and extremely loyal. I love him and would so anything for him. Hell I already have. I'm not perfect but most women would have said 'I'm done' with all that's happened. Something has kept me with him too. And right now- I don't know what that is. Help me out please girls and guys. I need it.
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