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I can see how that would work- and aren't there meant to be acupuncture points that respond to pressure as well? I don't know much about that though really.
I do know that I love my sunglasses very very much, and sometimes wish that I could wear them even when it's raining. cool.gif

I like your new picture. Where is it from?
The Photo?
It's the same, but I tried to upload a new avatar it didn't work (grrr...)
afterwards my photo was stretched like this. wacko.gif blink.gif

Eta: huh.gif how strange, it turned up now... without me doing something.
I guess you mean that photo. *wanders off thread slightly confused*

Eta2: Where is it from?'s me... ph34r.gif
I wondered if it was you- but it kind of looks like a painting too- like the Elvgren pin-up paintings. I like the colors/lighting. (and you, of course.)

How's your work going?

I'm feeling a little bit stressed.....
Photographers gah and to think I said I loved them. I wish wish wish people would communicate that things are going to be late...../vent

But I'm off to a preview later (ironically of photographs) which I am planning on making into a fun night.
laugh.gif Thanks!
I experimented with photoshop or was it corel draw? I have corel photo paint now, and I can't even downsize a photo with it..zzz. took me ages to upload that photo (obvious from my gaga last post laugh.gif )

When I get really dolled up, (rare enoug) then I take a before and after picture of myself with my cheap crappy camera. They're amazing photos for some reason.

I've got an old 1950s camera, too, but no flashbulb to go with it. Friends told me I only need to use a sensitive film. I'm a little scared, if it's too difficult to use, and mostly, if I should try such an expensive art form. unsure.gif

Producing my stuff so cheaply, is kind of my saving grace, because the impoverished bohemians I know, are the only people who occasionally buy my artworks.
This inter mer net is so confusing- your new pic was there for ages before I posted about it... it's no wonder I never know what's going on....

So, you played around with your picture on your computer, and that's why it looks like that? I mean that the color looks heightened, and that's why I thought it was a painting?

So you take a before and after picture. Which is this? You seem, if you don't mind me saying, from the pics I've seen, to just have one of those faces that looks amazing *before OR after*.

And. There is a store near me that sells (very)second hand camera equipment...... I'm wondering if they have a flash/ know what you should do. (sensitive film sounds difficult to me too)

So the exhibition I went to was *interesting*. Photographs of "characters" from my city. The photographs were beautiful, and if I can linky malinky to them I will, but ugh.
I don't like those preview nights.

And the friends buying cheaply thing- do you want to bounce ideas around, or are you ok with it?

I was thinking today how much I like knowing I can come here and talk about work and stuff, and what I'd want to talk *about* particularly.
I mean, that we can be a resource for each other and it's lovely. I just wonder what I want to resource!
Yeah, it's weird. When I uploaded the new picture, it didn't show up for hours. huh.gif Very confusing...
With the photoshop, I heightened the contrast very extremely, that's why it looks like that. That painting effect could be, because it's so small. On the original, you can see the pixels more...
The before and after shots, are made just for fun, while I'm getting dressed. In my profile, there's my myspace link, on the pictures page, you can see some fun pics, where I have curlers in my hair laugh.gif I guess they would be the before shots. LOL.
Oh, and thanks for the compliment! *blushes*

I've seen flashbulbs for the old cameras on fleamarkets, but they're pretty expensive, and I think you can only use them four times (? not sure) so experimenting with sensitive film would probably be cheaper.

There's this sentence you wrote, that I didn't quite understand... what does "bouncing ideas around" mean? Sorry.
I'm definetely happy, to sell stuff cheaply to people I know, at least I don't have to compromise anything. Some friends of mine make a proper living with illustrations, they do for womens magazines, I'm not sure if I could do that.

It's a good thing, we have this thread, and what you said about being a resource... maybe we need a little time, to figure that out, I mean this thread only got bumped a week or so ago.

Oh, if anyone's at myspace, please add me! Don't worry, I'm not one of those pushy networkers. laugh.gif
Hey Pherber!

"bouncing ideas around": to discuss new ideas- like brain storming? I meant did you want to talk about different ways to sell your work/ things you could try, or are you happy with selling in the way you are, and don't want to discuss new ideas.
I guess it's quite a literal metaphor in a way- like a game of tennis, but with an idea instead of a ball- and the idea changes a little each time it goes across the net.

Yeah, I'm still finding my way with the lounge, but I love knowing this thread is here! It feels uncomfortable talking about work with offline friends sometimes- either they are in a different industry, or there can be a bit of "competition" with the other artists I know, so I don't really discuss stuff with them, because I don't like to get into all of that!

Last week (and this week, I think) have been stressful with deadlines and conflicting briefs- think I know what my plan is, and then one piece changes and it effects everything! I don't like to work with too much pressure!!
Why don't you think you could do magazine illustrations Pherber? I hope you don't mind all my questions!! smile.gif
Pherber, those old flashbulbs only go off once. They kind of explode and then they're dead. I've never used them, but heard they give an effect that an electronic flash can't completely reproduce (think Weegee).

What kind of camera is it? I have a bunch of old cameras that I use from time to time. They are more difficult to control, but, yeah, generally speaking if you use a reasonably sensitive film and work in daylight or light your subject it'll work. And if you have a light meter or even another camera with a light meter that can help. (Sorry for all of this on something you mentioned in passing... I'm a photo student keen to give advice when I can!)
Yeah, I'd love to share ideas on what else there could be done to sell art. I mean I'm glad, I sell something occasionally, but it's in no way enough to support myself, and I would be completely f***ed if I didn't get welfare benefits on top of that.
I have a circle of friends, and we support each other and organize events where stuff can be sold outside galleries, but it's difficult, because it's sort of low-brow art. It doesn't attract many people, because it's not accepted by the posh art community.
Doing magazine illustrations would be a good thing, if they didn't demand so many organizing and social skills, to get the jobs in the first place, and with my AS, I haven't mustered the courage yet, to face that challenge.

Nice explanation for "bouncing ideas around" thanks!

You're really nice, btw. smile.gif

ETA: Hi Edie!
Just saw your post, and it's most appreciated! smile.gif
I have an appointment in a few minutes, but I'll be back in an hour, then I'll look for the camera, and what brand it is. Thanks, dear!
Hi Edie,
I'm back, and I've found my camera. It's a "Balda" Super Baldamatic camera. I can't tell whether it's a I, II, or III though.
I figured it would be nice, to google it first, since I don't know how well known that brand is outside Germany.
I found a link with a photo and short description of it.
Here's a better link. I've got the leather case, too.
Here's a link with informarmation on the manufacturer.
I hope this doesn't appear patronizing, but I really don't know, if you learned about that particular brand of cameras in your studies. (And I know nothing about it, so I can't judge)

Thanks again for advising! smile.gif

I've never heard of that camera.... but even if I had, you wouldn't sound patronizing! You're lucky because it seems pretty straightforward- from what I read it has a light meter (needle meter in the viewfinder), and takes 35 mm film (many old cameras take extinct film formats). It's a rangefinder, so keep in mind that what you see in the viewfinder is not exactly what your lens sees. And let me know if you have any more questions!

What do you know about Valand University in Goteborg? I'm pretty sure I want to do an exchange there next year.

This semester I'm taking drawing and screen printing. It's good for me, but I'm having to find such different ways of approaching things. It's humbling.
Hello everybody!

Ooh, I like WeeGee's work- kinda. It's interesting anyway. The subject matter can feel a bit gruesome- obviously-but I remember being very excited by him and what he did when I first came across him, and still feel excited when I hear his name.
And I like the light quality- I didn't realise that about the flashes Edie- that's such a shame there isn't a way to reproduce it! I feel a bit sad about that.

When I was a teenager I was told that if I went to an art museum(like the big permanent collections), that I should look for just one painting that would be there- like something I'd have seen in a book, and liked or felt interested in- and not to get distracted by everything else. Just go look for that one painting, and sit with it for half an hour. And then on the way out notice what all else I walked past. And that that one painting would then be my friend, and whenever I saw it- in real life or in a book or whatever, I'd feel warm and lovely.

And it's true. smile.gif

Pherber, I'm going to put some thought into things that you could do to earn some bucks/euros.
It's true what you said about the hierarchy of the art world and I don't like it. I avoid the high brow because I think it's a false construct- designed to feed egos rather than to relish in the delights and horrors of the world.
It's a shame that there isn't a way for you to network/get work online- you come across very clearly/eloquently. I do understand though- and I'm sure you'll get there! smile.gif

So- I got all my work done, I picked up the last of the photos, and secured a big discount because I had so much work done, and will have more in the future for them. And I seem to have developed a crush on the photographer. rolleyes.gif
I didn't know who WeeGee was, so I googled him. WOW!!! I so love that photographic style.
A few people I know, are using external flashbulbs, the ones you hold in your hands, or put on a tripod.
They are probably even more expensive. Anyone know how they compare to the ones you fix on the camera?

I also love the aesthetic of photos/movies from the 70s, dunno what it is, maybe that warm, sunny tint? I've been told it's got to do with the film. unsure.gif
I collect books (interior books, so funky!) from that decade, just because of the photos.

Edie, I haven't heard of that university you mentioned, where are you from? I couldn't imagine what the "mtl" in your profile means. With Hamburg, being so far up north, plus having worked in a bar called "Scandia" I obviously met many Scandinavians.
IMHO, the Swedish people are so wonderfully polite and friendly, that this alone would justify studying there. (But then of course anyone is incredibly polite compared to my countryfolk! tongue.gif laugh.gif )

I'm jealous of anyone who gets a chance to study anything art related. I'm completely self taught, which is fine, too, but messy, elaborate stuff like different printing techniques, just can't be made at home.
I might get carried away with my love for everything vintage... I mean the computer age has it's advantages, but it made everything dull aesthetically.

butterfly, that was very interesting, your teenage art experiences, it was very similar with me.
I kinda fell in love with Otto Dix paintings. He used to portrait these decadent ladies of the 20s. Like the scandalous exotic dancer and actress Anita Berber and poet and journalist Sylvia von Harden. They kind of inspired me to leave my dull environment and go somewhere more exciting. (I lived in a tiny village in Black Forest as a teenager, it was awful! sad.gif )
Pherber, I live in Montreal! Valand is the art school part of the University of Gothenberg, where they apparently have excellent photo facilities open 24 hours. Valand has an agreement with my school so that I can go there and still pay my tuition here, and it's also easy to get a Quebec bursary for studying abroad. And I'm so drawn by how easy it is to get around Europe and how many countries I could visit. Aahh, I'm talking about it too much, I don't want to jinx it!

I also love love love 60s and 70s color film and photography. Two of favorites (who are also the ones people tend to mention when they see my stuff) are Stephen Shore and William Eggleston. You should google them if you haven't seen their work.

I'm not great with flash, but with the big flashes that you mount on tripods you have so much more control, you can light your subject from any angle and have more than one source of light. And with the hand held ones, a similar advantage- you can control where the light comes from or bounce it off of something.
Pherber, you mean Schwarzwald? I've never been there although it's a popular holiday destination (i'm in the netherlands).

I just got back from Berlin and that's some city! But i've got so much in the pipeline so i don't know when i can put something Berlin related into my work.

As for high brow low brow; i somehow feel this distinction is being erased a bit. Sure, there'll always be museums who declare what art is and make up all these dogma's but not so long ago photography wasn't even viewed as an art form. Noiwadays money is secured by investing in photography, and suddenly the scene is flooded with people with money to spare who buy and buy.
Friends of mine formed a comic-collective, and they publish books, but at the same time they do things individually, like customize sneakers, make a live artwork during a night out in some hip club. The high-art world can be snobbish, but ultimately they're not the pioneers.

eta: i couldn't agree with you more on the photogs, Edie. I have a book of Stephen Shore (uncommon places) i bought it in New York(books like that are so expensive in holland!). I also like the work of Eggleston. And Robert Frank, Martha Cooper and Camilo Vergara.
That's just so cool edie! biggrin.gif
If you're ever in Hamburg, come visit me!

I love Stephen Shore, this photo is a great example, of that warm, sunny tint, I tried to describe!

Funny, I bought a single by Primal Scream (Country Girl) recently, and they used a 70s photo by Eggleston for the record cover...

Those big flashes, do they explode, too, or can you use them several times?
Sorry for asking so many dumb questions...

sonik, yes, Schwarzwald! laugh.gif
It's very beautiful, but you wouldn't wanna live there. There are way too many religous bigots and nazis in that area, even in their local administrations, not to mention the most godawful dialect I've ever heard!

I think butterfly and me, were more disenchanted with the pretentiousness of the people involved in the art world, not so much classifying art itself.
Sometimes I get the feeling, that this attitude is taught in art schools, so that the students are "up for the market", once they finished their studies, but I might just be cynical here.

In Germany, there was a big kerfuffle, because in the international PISA study, the results for german students were shockingly terrible.
It was considered an embarassment, because not only did many students from poorer countries score better, it also showed, that the kids background influences their chances to get good education.
It also proved my observation: 95% of art students are middle class, and they will never accept working class people like me as artists.
I swear, I'm not pessimistic, it's the reality.

This so pisses me off, because spoilt brats, who have never had any troubles in life, engage in "basket weaving for the middle class" and call that art, whereas people like me, who are very real and authentic are patronized as "refreshing"! mad.gif
I always notice this, when yet another dunce refers to my work as "trash art", "punk art" or "kitsch art".
They'll use any stupid prefix, to avoid the suggestion it could be real art.

...rant! laugh.gif
I saw that Eggleston photo on the cover of a novel recently. I like it. The girl looks like a friend of mine, and I have that camera that she's holding.

Pherber, if I do go to Sweden I will hopefully make it to Kassel for Documenta before my session starts. Speaking of which, what do you know about the festival- is it costly or cheap/free? Fun or snobby? I don't know much about it, but I've heard it's pretty cutting edge, and one of the best big art fests.

Oh, and the big flashes don't explode, they work like the normal on-camera ones.
The Documenta, is definetely great, I'd go there even if it's snobbish. It's very international, so you'll find loads of information on the internet (in English)

It's not for free, but it's cheaper than a rock festival! biggrin.gif Students get in cheaper, too. (You need your student, erm "licence" thingy...)
I would try to get a room as early as possible, because Kassel is not that huge of a city, and during Documenta time it is notoriously overrun with tourists, so getting a hotel room might be difficult.

Here's their official homepage. There's almost everything you need to know.
It's written in very pompous style, but that's a common translation hazard... laugh.gif

Thanks for the info on flashes. That might save me a lot of money, so I'll give that a try!
Hi arty busties! I'm not an artist, but my husband is and we opened an art gallery this year in the storefront of our house. We had our first group show last Saturday night, and it went well...we got around 200 people and went through 15 of the big bottles of wine...and we sold 4 pieces.

At a preview the weekend before, we sold two small pieces by one artist, but all the other pieces that sold were my Mr's...that's the only thing that bummed me out. I realy wanted everyone in the show to sell something. There was some interest, though, and the show is up until mid November, so I hope other folks sell stuff. We're only open on Saturdays, so I'll keep my fingers crossed until the weekend.

I hope you guys don't mind me coming in here talking about the retail aspects of art and all that...the gallery owner's perspective.
I don't know if this thread is where I should post this, but are any other small business/DIY crafters having an unusually slow year? I've been really, really slow since the season opened, and I'm not sure why, or if this is an indication of a larger problem.

Anyone who works in retail of any kind noticing a REALLY slow market?
Well, it's not "my" thread, so I hope this doesn't come across as overbearing:

IMO the "retail aspects" of art are very important, this thread is in the Working Grrls forum, after all, and not in Media Whores (which it would, if we talked about art just being a hobby.)
Fashion design is an art form, too, methinks, so, you're very welcome busty and amilitia! happy.gif

Sorry, I have not much to add to the sales problem, because I work more freelance, and that's always completely unpredictable.
amilita, my boyfriend's DREAM is to do what you did by opening a gallery....that's so cool. It 's just that rent here (boston) is so damn your gallery zoned to be a commercial property? Or is it more "underground"? In the past few years a few underground galleries were shut down by the city because of technical, obscure laws, so that's been disappointing....what kind of work do you show? Do you have a site?
Yeah, gumby, our house is a commercial property downstairs...the Mr. has his metal shop down there in the back (he does metal sculpture mostly, but also paints) and then we live upstairs. I tell ya, it was so nice at the opening to just run upstairs for stuff we wine from the fridge or more t.p.

That's too bad about the underground places getting shut down there. There is a place near us that is like that...they do performances and other stuff. I've not been there yet.

We don't have a specific type of art we plan on showing...our first show was really just a bunch of talented people we know. We are going to do shows about 4 times a year, as opposed to monthly. If we need to, between shows, we can just fill the place with the Mr.'s art.

It's was weird at first to be setting ourselves up to take the gallery cut of the sale price, but man, expenses sure do add up and you kind of have to have a reserve so you can stay open if you have shows that don't sell well. And it's not as if we're paying ourselves for our time or anything like that...and we are doing a 60%/40% cut in the artist's favor. So I don't feel guilty anymore, but I did at first.

I'm gonna PM you our website address!
amilita, i think that sounds pretty damn good for the first show you ever had! and the idea of having your own gallery is really cool.

gumby, i hear you on boston's art scene! i actually went to art school there, and it seemed like every time one cool little gallery sprang up, another one got shut down cos it wasn't zoned right or the landlord did something wrong and the artists suffered because of it. so frustrating.
my man wants to move to NYC or LA because he hates how shitty the art scene is here in boston. will be nice when the ica reopens but with mobius and oni gone, and with the berwick only doing residential type things, there just aint a lot going on. it's good he's so focused on his art cause it makes me so focused, but moving is a big step i'm not sure i'm ready for.
yeah. i was frustrated at boston's art scene too, and i was there when mobius and oni were still going and the ica was open. are they reopening on the waterfront in that gi-antic building still?

is zeitgeist still around? they sometimes had interesting stuff. and of course the art schools usually have great shows, but just for students.

i vote LA for the move (ha!). better art scene than boston, AND cheaper rent! tongue.gif
Mouse, I just PMed you, and Amilita, I just PMed you yesterday, but I'm not sure whether they went through beause I'm still getting the hang of the new lounge.....
Yes, I got it! And I'm gonna reply properly soon! I'm all distracted right now. *mwah*
i hear seattle is very culturally rich... anyone visited or live there?
Ah, Pherber, i understand about snobbishness and that your work is described as 'edgy'. People should just appreciate works for what they are instead of making a fuss about class and stuff.

Last night i dreamt i was in L.A. I read that the art scene is rapidly expanding there.

Best of luck with your gallery, Amilitia! It sounds like a lot of work, but also rewarding (alas not always in terms of money).

I quit my retail job and i will try to make it as an illustrator alone.
you know, the LA art scene is expanding and extensive, but i gotta say i've been really disappointed by a ton of the art that's been shown, nearly 100% of the last few shows i've been to. it seems like either people give no thought to execution and while it may be a good idea, it just looks shoddily done--or the stuff that is well done has crappy concepts.
Hi all!

I bought a new computer! It's been almost ten years! Gaaaaaaad!
But see, I could always use the one at school or work, and I was poor (ish) so--

I got a new charge card since I paid off the old one, and just went for it!

What I notice in the design/publishing etc. scene in Boston is that the large corporations are outputting their design to small consulting firms that come up with a very narrow range of icons/logos/colors/fonts/textures for the global corporations integrated marketing presence.

It makes sense, but what it means is that the biggest corporations no longer have inhouse art departments per se, what happens is that they get the concept from a small, hip company for a one-time fee, and the designers are turned into what used to be called production people, and what used to be the production people are --- uh, tattooed.

I have to -- we all have to -- take clients at night to get any cool, creative work. I just gave in to the home office small business thing. The last thing I want to do really is be some freaky workaholic that has a full time job for the base pay, benefits, vacation and 401k, and then, besides commuting, sleeping, going to the gym and doing chores like laundry, shopping and cooking, you're supposed to just spend every moment dealing with clients on a wing and a prayer, people who might very well just want something cheap or be a pain to deal with. Not only will I be tired, but there will be no corporate lawyer team to scare people with.

I'm not digging it. And the class thing really sucks. The best thing to say in an interview for the job I've been doing for nigh on to fifteen years now is: I went to fancy graduate school. Puhlease.

I've learned perhaps I should at least mention preparing for the exams or something.

Also, I should take jobs I totally look down upon away from people I think I am better than. This fits in perfectly with "driving up the prices by moving into neighborhoods lived in by people you have always ridiculed, and taking the housing away from the people who grew up there."

I'd like to see an art scene that wasn't essentially a store selling prestigious items to the rich, a bunch of prissy idiots pulling a scam and not caring beans about the content, just if one can parade one's art history class prattle and drive up the resale value. Selling things has certainly always been PART of art, but the part of art - and media of all kinds, design, music, everything, that is CULTURAL COMMUNICATION has been lost. Certainly the part that is DEEP ETERNAL SPIRIT TRANSCENDING TIME, PLACE, AND SOCIAL ROLE.

And, bustygirl, my friends who sell their art notice they are making about HALF the money they made last year. So, you don't suddenly suck smile.gif
"I'd like to see an art scene that wasn't essentially a store selling prestigious items to the rich, a bunch of prissy idiots pulling a scam and not caring beans about the content"

Wombat, I hear you. I just saw a newspaper feature on Canada's most "important" art collectors, and of course they're all old, white men.

I just watched Art School Confidential, and while it was kind of scattered as a film, I thought it was a really funny satire of art school (it basically felt like being at school, except I laughed out loud a lot more) and the art world. It really showed how arbitrary it can be who becomes the next hot young artist in an art world that is trendy and elitist.

I've never sold any work (or even really shown it- though I have a piece in a show next week), but I have had a few people ask about buying and I had no idea how much to charge so I just kind of put it off and it never happened.
Speaking of old, white men, that reminds me of a story, an artist girlfriend told me.
She was offered an exhibition in a very respectable art museum, but only if she'd agree to have sex with the curator.
He told her, that her great talent just wasn't enough, because there were so many other talented artists who would happily accept that offer. She refused, and he found someone else.
The creep. dry.gif
I don't mean to be a total downer, as there is some interesting art at Boston's MFA now, (female artist SHOW does abstract expressionist with some vague female-oriented sexual content, will have to look up her name later!)

Ha ha -- check out the original 8-ball comic version of Art School Confidential! So funny.
have any of you guys seen this movie? i went to nyc two weekends ago and saw it at the new musum looks interesting.

ps am i allowed to cut off other sites and paste here?

Off the Canvas

Produced and directed by Marcia Urbin Raymond and Joyce Zylberberg
OFF THE CANVAS [OTC] strips the gallery fa?ade and invites the public into the seductive, obsessive, and demanding world of art dealing. We go behind the scenes to witness nine maverick New York women dealers in action. Stories of their success, frustration, and resilience are told from artists, collectors and peers. Each dealer followed a different path that led to this profession. Just as unique as these paths taken, so were their approaches to the actual dealing. OTC reveals how and when these women began discovering artists, curating shows and finding collectors who would ultimately support their visions.

Featured gallerists are:
Mary Boone, Paula Cooper, Barbara Gladstone, Marian Goodman, Annina Nosei, Andrea Rosen, Holly Solomon, Illeana Sonnabend and Virginia Zabriskie.

2004: Color; NTSC; 57 minutes
ew, pherber, that's awful!!!

wombat, i'm glad to hear there's at least some decent stuff still at the mfa. i worked there for two years right before it started to go downhill thanks to malcolm rogers, who's cutting all sorts of educational programs and eschewing rembrandt and gaugin for effing ralph lauren's cars and a display of yachts.
Hi y'all! I havent been on this thread for awhile so I hate to 'bust' in and self-promote,..but I'm gonna anyway *hee*.
So, if anyones in the Portland, Oregon area you should check out Stumptown comics fest...
my comic is called Bad Grades so find my booth and say hi!

{{art bustie vibes}}

i feel like a complete ass saying this but i am so. fucking. sick of working for small clients. i really am. the illustration stuff i've done has simply been one awful experience after another. it's been my goal forever and everyone who sees my work seems to like it, but i guess it's not commercial enough since no art directors seem to notice--only folks with tiny budgets and their own creative projects to worry about. i don't want to give up on this, but i'm feeling like there's no other choice. i have no desire at all to do one more contract-less project for like $300 for someone who's no more established than i am and manages to not send me the information i need for THREE DAYS because she left out a letter in my last name in the email address. christ, you would think maybe the emails being returned might suggest it wasn't getting to me? seriously i'm so fucking done.

Oh, yeah, I know what you mean, mouse.

The idea of taking on jobs at night just to get cooler stuff, the way so many people I work with do, just gives me the heebie-jeebies.

I've had so many bad experiences with lame-asses who don't know what they're doing, and occasionally with those who DO know what they're doing and are just being sleazy.

And for some reason, too many people think you can just change it and change it and change it and change it and ... every time you go in there, it takes about as much time and trouble as just doing the whole job.

I lurve big corporations. I mean, working for big corporations. I lurve it. I get good working conditions, good equipment that somebody else pays for, a whole tech staff to consult, someone else to talk to the client, someone else who handles money and taxes and legal stuff, vacations, benefits, retirement -- I'm paying into the retirement funds various corporations have given me and rolled them all over into one and will pay from my unemployment compensation (yes I get it, and it's generous, because I'm not on the tax rolls as "self employed') yee ha!

I'm very reluctant to take on smalltimers.

Even though I suggested and defendedd elance.

I haven't taken on any smalltimers as of yet.

I think my approach is going to be to do stuff on my own that's cool and send it off more in a "publishing" mode. Or I see companies I like that actually don't have a logo! Or one of those little tiny browser line logos. Just make it and shop it to them. They may pay me, but if they don't like it, then I retain the rights and either way, it goes into my portfolio showing "how I come up with ideas and present a client in the new technology"
where's sonik!!?

my boss just bought an "inspirational" book for us designers called great escape, and YOUR STUFF IS IN IT! biggrin.gif
Hey Mouse, it's strange how that book is going everywhere. I saw it a month ago in a shop in Berlin..

I'm sorry that things aren't going how you want it. It sucks that the lower the price, the more clients want from you, at least, that's my experience. Are there illustration agencies (i suppose so) you could look into?
I haven't done this in a long time- but i usually sent potential comissioners stuff, like selfmade cards and a description of what i do. That needed a lot of finetuning though. Looking around, seeing opportunities and acting on it does not always equal assignments in a short period of time. These things do pay out in the long run (years). But that's freelancing for ya, it's 'running or standing still', as we say.

Good luck! I think you being angry is normal, maybe positive, even. It's a signal for change. You will get there!
That's so *cool* you got in a book, sonic!

And I hope the work negotiations end up well for you, mouse! Try to clear up the "who's responsible for checking the factory instructions before it's shipped to China" thing. It's not unheard of for the designer to be responsible. I knew a designer who was working for the guy who invented those see-through rainbow car window stickers, and he would get yelled at if he didn't include a font -- though he did include the font dry.gif
He was supposed to be on the phone to China, talking to the foreman of the printing plant. He didn't dig it, but he did it.

If they want you to have the ulitmate role legitimizing the content, then they have to communicate that to you, and others about you, so you have the authority to demand materials/information that is missing or contradictory, from the others in the corporation.

Note: I just loaded Xtools! I am making widgets for Mac Os X screen! Trying to, anyway. I can't get a live web directory until 11/27 according to ISP, (I guess it's processing time, at least they got me online right away!)

Ima switch my working space to Flash 8, actionscript and other helper apps, and make animations and widgets that are "cute" and low bandwidth to promote myself. I already have print skills up the wazoo. Um, I mean, make stuff that's cute but not annoying, to show I really know how to do this, cuz I've never worked for a real web company.

*Squeeak*!! I feel dorky glee, and also a lot of pressure, because to me this is like going back to the earliest days learning the computer stuff, and takes a lot of time/focus/concentration from me that has other demands on it. Oh, to be a geek at MIT paid for by my parents, holing up in the dorm. Of course, then, there would be dumbass required classes with huge amounts of work. Get nothin' for nothin', right?

i think sonik's been published quite a few times. i'm pretty jealous of her repertoire quite frankly tongue.gif

wombat, i'm really not sure at all what you're referring to. can you clarify? thanks.
Uh Oh!! I'm not sure what you're referring to that I was referring to!

Widgets -- handy dandy little "3-D" shiny things on the Mac OS X desktop -- orange calculator, clocks, the like.

Designers talking about factory specs -- didn't you say they yelled at you because the drawing and the fabric didn't match previous specs on one of the textile designs, and you said, *grumble grumble asshats like that's my business anyways* or something?
hmm, not recently.....the company we do most of our domestic samples at is notorious for using the wrong colors or messing something up, but that's not my company. i've worked here six months, i'm pretty familiar with my job description.
Yeah, wombat, those widgets are great!

Mouse, this particular publication was through my agency. They have lots of contacts and they work internationally. They always challenge me to improve my work, they're great people.
But there are lots of books coming out each year, with calls for entries. I always try to get into the coolest ones. Like Faesthetic no. 6, which came out early November:

What kind of company do you work for, Mouse? Do you work fulltime?
hey sonik, that's a great book! how did you get attached to an agency? do you like it?

i work full time as a graphic designer for an apparel company; screen and textile work. it's creative and i enjoy it and it's TOTALLY WEIRD AND AWESOME to have something you designed turn up in urban outfitters or whatnot, and it pays pretty well, but it doesn't leave me a lot of time to work on illustration. i'm kind of trying to save up some money right now; once i get a cushion i'm going to focus more on the illo.
That sounds like a great job! Good luck with your illustration work! I like your avatar, is that your drawing?

My last job on the side was working in a clothing store. I did that for 7 years. Now i'm looking to getting more out of illustration than taking on some low wage job that sucks all energy out of me.

I'm with Unit creative management agency. They had an office in New York, but now they're working from their office in Amsterdam. During a meeting with editors looking for illustrators to join their new magazine, i was told this particular agency was interested in my work. So i gave them a call andafetr meeting them and talking a bit, i could join them immediately. I was with another agency at that time, but they did almost nothing for me except some underpaid one-off things. So i switched agencies.
They got me the hipster haiku book cover (written by Siobhan Adcock), which was great. They also organize meetings with editors, exhibitions.
It's not like i'm restricted to the agency, i can also go out and get assignments on my own.
yeah, it is--it actually was done as a spec for a fabric print, but my boss didn't like the face (thought it wouldn't sell), just the doodley part.

i applied to a couple of agencies but they all said i wasn't what they were looking for. i think i need to be more established on my own before i ask someone else to represent me. kind of a vicious cycle that way.... *sigh*

i sent a link to my portfolio to faesthetic......cross your fingers for me?
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