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Full Version: BUSTing Trolls, Part Deux
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Thanks y'alls for replying! smile.gif
I actually meant to say: It's not so hard to say "I'm pissed off with this" without resorting to personal insults. Like in the "I feel bad.." thread, where I had a huge freak out, but I just explained what made me mad, and things got resolved very fast.

I actually don't know what's been going on in the "childree" thread, despite me being childfree by choice, too, so I didn't address that... *scratches head slightly confused* I don't know if you meant that, wombat...

About calling pepper a hypocrite, (don't remember who did that, there were so many posts yesterday, sorry) I have no idea what went on with other trolls, and I'm usually terrible at recognizing them, so I'm just talking about this one.

Whenever I'm in an autism forum, people have the worst hiccups, and they behave much less civilized, despite moderators, rolleyes.gif but if someone says things like "Asperger's doesn't exist, and you all just need to get a life!" they are quickly identified as trolls.
The thing that's been upsetting me is, why do we give obviously anti-feminist posters the benefit of a doubt? It just seems so insulting to us as women, that we can't even agree on who's a troll.
I hope that made sense..

With the fake-friendliness, I think it was Katiebelle who said it wasn't alright to call PO a troll, because we need the confrontation, or something like that. I hope I'm not misquoting her.
I actually think it's okay, to bite your tongue sometimes, because some confrontations are pointless and not even worth it, and that's not fake-friendly, it's wise.
(Note: this is NOT a dig at anyone! I'm not telling anyone to bite their tongue, just agreeing with bunny and roseviolet, to let people decide for themselves if they want to or not...)
"why do we give obviously anti-feminist posters the benefit of a doubt"

yes, exactly.

sometimes i'm upset but i don't post, i'll go home and think about it, and either i'll let it go, or i'll understand more where the person is coming from. sometimes i still feel pissed about it or confused, so then i'll post. to me that's not being fake-nicey, it''s just thinking a bit before i speak/post.

Actually, I think I'm the one that said that Pherb, but I'm sure Katie concurred.

Also, I don't think we give *obvious* trolls a chance. What obvious troll have we given the benefit of the doubt to? Num*nuts (In his various incarnations. I don't know what it is that people think they can just switch handles & nobody will notice that they're still the same asshat.) was fed through our constant vilification & never given the benefit of the doubt. He was the definition of a troll. Just because somebody doesn't agree with us doesn't mean we should view them as a troll. PO isn't a troll, nor is she anti-feminist. She's merely sharp-tongued & over-stepped a boundary. If that constitutes a troll than I might as well bail for greener pastures. There won't be a cake waiting for me in the Lounge upon my departure.

And yes, the nicey-nicey exists. It's self preservation around here. Nobody wants to be drummed from the ranks for a single untoward comment to the wrong person, but I've seen it happen. That's why I started this conversation in the first place, I wanted to bring attention to that. There are certain Busties that I call Bustie Bullies cos if they are even the slightest bit offended, they draw in all of their Bustie buddies & attack like rabid dingoes on cheap meth. If you get a single black mark in your book, certain people will just write you off on another's opinions whether they've had a bad experience with you or not. Things get tighter than a starfish's asshole & that is airtight!

Look, as a most hated Bustie, I'm always just gonna come right out & say what I gotta cos that's what I do. Whether you like it or not. I'm not a Bust-lebrity out to get my ego stroked. I like most of my wimmins. I try to drop my own brand of science with humor & compassion, but it doesn't always work. To paraphrase the almighty Doodlebug in regards to *my* posts, "I have to read your posts through my fingers. I keep thinking you're not gonna go there, you're not... but you do. And I cheer." (So I know I got at least one woman at my back here.) There have been instances where people have latched on to specific words/phrases they were offended by & not gotten the big picture of what I was trying to say. This happened recently & thankfully another Bustie picked up the important part & put it out there again for others to use constructively.

And just FYI, Hummingbird & I took it to the pm. If ya'll thought she was ugly to people up in here, you have no clue the depths of the darkness of her heart. What she said to the lot of ya'll was Sunday school compared to what she said to me privately. She said such vile things to me that she is going straight to hell. And I'm not minimizing anybody's hurt, so don't get uptight.

See, that was a disclaimer right there. I'm just as wrapped up in the politics as everybody else.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like people that I can have an argument with and we can make it up and be friends after. I don't like or stay friends with people who immediately make it into a power issue -- if we disagree, who's word GOES?

Frankly, if someone says "I'm not going to include you again unless you apologize for even THINKING I even MIGHT be bad in any way!" I won't deal with that. I'm not a declawed cat. I have to have my spine to survive.

I see the "fake-nice" issue as people who post praises all over the place all the time and then gang up on someone, or someone charging in when the original discussion had nothing to do with them, to suppress one side or the other, or, constantly making comments on the order or "I kicked a total stranger for no reason today, isn't that great, showed HIM who was boss!" (I'm exaggerating and kind of joking with this, but you know) and we're all supposed to say, "You go, girl!" and "High five!" instead of saying what I start thinking, which is, "Maybe you are an asshole. Maybe you are the "wrong" person in this situation. Maybe if you got smacked right back you deserved it!"

That said, most of the time if I don't particularly agree with someone, I figure they have a right to be different than I am. So I don't have to tell them we must be the same.

AP "a most hated Bustie"? FUCK no! well, not by some smile.gif.

I'm interested in you taking it to PM with hummingbird; I called it like I saw it with that one and I'll ungracefully do the snoopy dance for being right (oh, i'm a smug bitch) but I recall you seeing it earlier than most.

My point a couple of days ago (pherber, it was me who said that pepper was hypocritical) was that "we" (the collective lounge, like there is such a thing) are so willing to give a racist, vitriolic poster (I'm not even getting into the whole troll debate cos it's irrelevant in this instance) the benefit of the doubt but not someone who makes a personal attack against another BUSTie. I am not defending what POfeminist said, I've made my feeling clear on her comments, but there is serious hypocrisy there. So, it's okay to be generally racist and abusive to the entire lounge (whilst threatening specific busties within the diatribe) but it's not okay to make anti-feminist comments or just downright rude comments to another? WHERE is the logic in that? There were a few people taking it to PM with hummingbird cos she was a poor troubled soul when I think it should have been as clearcut as this was (for the most part!)

Do people understand where I'm coming from? this is not directed at pepper; pepper and I worked our issues out at the time, as she reminded me, but more "seasoned" BUSTies weren't so accomodating of my hard-stance (I'm not always the peacekeeper but always fight the losing battle) and I remember, vividly, feeling like the one attacked. Pherber, the lounge is mainly a nice place but every so often it is very like high school with cliques and bullies.
there were a few peeps here who took the "give him a chance" stand with the asshat, make no mistake. even after the impersonations that philosophy was still making the rounds. it took even more than that for the troll vote to be unanimous. as her introductory post PO listed a bunch of completely erronious and nasty "facts" about me and then told me that my baby would be better off as an abortion. that to me is way beyond sharp tongued.

the thing about Hbird was that she had a history here and what she posted was out of character. that was the reason i wondered what was up with her and if she could turn it around. it only took a couple of her posts before i thought she should go too. my issue wasn't with that, it was the initial writing her off without giving her a second. we knew her, she wasn't an ass straight off (though i understand that she wasn't always pleasant either), so it wasn't like she came and made her grand entrance here as a nasty bitch. something happened to her to make that happen and beyond that situation i think it could happen to someone else in a similar way. i just thought, initially, that throwing the baby out with the bath water was a bit premature, that was it with that situation. if it happened again with someone else i'd want to give them a second to see if they'd make ammends before turning my back on them. that's all.
pepper, I see your point, I really do, but it's that attacking the newbie issue again ... POfeminist could have been having a really bad day but noone gave her a second chance (after a few posts), because she's not an "established" BUSTie we throw her out with the bathwater? My issue with the hummingbird thing was that she should have been ostracized as soon as she made the racist comments and threats against other BUSTies that she did. Tomorrow, if I'm pissed off and come in here spewing ugly vitriol in a couple of posts you're going to give me the benefit of the doubt? It would be out of character, sure, but it would still be racist shit directed at people I share a community space with and who I should respect. I sure as hell would have been putting her on ignore if she had stuck around after a couple of posts, apologising and putting it down to issues or not, as I don't associate with racists and it shocked me that others on this board found it excusable.
pepper, there are those - myself included - who don't see much difference in POF's suggestion that you abort your baby from HB's "i hope someone you love dies". and yet you're still defending your defense of HB. i think therein the hypocrisy lies. color me biased & short-sighted, but i don't think i'm ever going to see your side on that one ... and i'm queen of the benefit of the doubt. it might just boil down to the situations being relative: the few times i've been targeted in the lounge, i got fucking mad. and i hold a grudge. sue me.

mazeltov on the new wee one, btw. i got so riled in the wee mama thread the other day, i forgot my manners.

AP, a most hated bustie i sincerely doubt. bust-lebrity maybe. wink.gif
o/t: I've just noticed that we seem to have a very sensitive and enlightened male who has posted in the work sucks thread and a couple of the lta sex threads. I would put him on ignore if his posts weren't so darn intelligent.
I noticed that too, bunny. I'm a little wary...but I'm always wary of the male posters who jump straight (mostly) into the sex threads.
Psst, did you see the typo of "the most intense organism"? I have a most intense organism, he's five pounds of soft fluff with a twitchy nose, alert ears, and a constant craving for bananas and apples. rolleyes.gif

Now I'm off to find this POF character y'all are talking about... will edit this post if I have something to add to the discussion, but not sure what else I can add that probably hasn't been said at this point...

AHA! Found something. Interesting that on July 24 Psychofemme said: Hmmm...I guess "troll" = someone you don't agree with.

And then just on Nov 11 POFeminist says: I will repeat myself that someone who posts things you do not disagree with is not a troll.

Even the two names are quite similar. Asshats dooooooooooo vex me!

p.s. AP, seeing that quote from Doodlebug again just made my day. You're one of the best BFBs I know -- and I'm not just blowing smoke up your ass. wink.gif
mando, at the point that hb was saying stuff like that i don't think i was defending her at all. but i was and still am defending the position of giving someone the benefit of the doubt *initially*. i did that with PO in her first post to me, it wasn't until i saw that she had been rude and condescending to someone else that i called her a troll.
and yes, omg bunny, if you posted something like that i would damn well ask you what the hell was up and if you wanted to talk about what was really up. that would be so totally out of character, i would think something awful happened to make you snap. if you went on and on in the manner that hb did i would concede that you should bugger off, just like i did with her. she's better off gone if she can't be helped by anyone here, even through PMs and people reaching out to her and if she insists on being an absolute cow here as well. of course. if she had made an Initial post like that though no one would have had any other context to hold her in, there never would have been any question about her (none of this having a bad day stuff i don't think).
po may have been having a bad day but she took the time and energy to post something pretty beyond a bad day post IMHO. and then she did it again to another member. maybe she's a nice person irl, who knows. that's, unfortunately, a side she didn't choose to introduce herself with. since there is no context in which to view her behavior the assumption is that that is, in fact, what she's like. it's not an "established bustie" bias, it's that there is no background to judge the behavior with. we can only use what we know and what we know isn't very nice and doesn't inspire a "hey, stick around and prove that you're not a jerk" attitude. no one gave her a second chance after a few posts not because she was new but because she was rude. hb didn't get a chance after more than a couple of posts either. not by anyone here including me. i still think though that things could have gone another way with that situation. i think she could have been helped, i really do. something hurt her so terribly that it made her hurt back. immature and destructive? certainly. and ultimately her end here. which, i think may have justified her attack in her own mind. it was stupid of her and she got what she set out to get from us, a fight, a big ugly one.
so let me say this over again for clarity. i am Not defending hb. what she wrote here was utterly atrocious, no question. my point is that i like to give people a chance to explain their dreadful behavior and appologize, if they can. and if they go on to prove that they are, indeed, and asshole well so be it. but if the first reaction a person like that gets is nasty straight back at them it feeds the fire and demolishes any chance at any kind of civil relationship. do we want to do that with relationships that can be salvaged? and who gets to decide if they can be or are worth it or not? obviously there are some people who weren't offended by what PO said in the mama thread and think she should stick around, and obviously there are some people who were. who's call?
I'm tired of the girl with the heart of darkness but thank you for your points pepper.

raisin, I noticed "organism" too and it greatly amused me! his posts are funny (in an asshat way) but he may be genuine.

I definitely think psychicfemme and POfeminist are one in the same: I don't believe in coincidences and she's been lurking the last few days but I haven't seen her around for months. That repeat comment too struck me as telling, she was playing with pepper.
Actually alot of people have mentioned that "just cause you don't agree with someone doesn't make them a troll" thing.

what AP said here:

"And yes, the nicey-nicey exists. It's self preservation around here. Nobody wants to be drummed from the ranks for a single untoward comment to the wrong person, but I've seen it happen. That's why I started this conversation in the first place, I wanted to bring attention to that. There are certain Busties that I call Bustie Bullies cos if they are even the slightest bit offended, they draw in all of their Bustie buddies & attack like rabid dingoes on cheap meth. If you get a single black mark in your book, certain people will just write you off on another's opinions whether they've had a bad experience with you or not. Things get tighter than a starfish's asshole & that is airtight!"

is absolutely and completely true. Not only is it true sadly, but that starfish's asshole metaphor is priceless. Do you have a copyright on that AP? I find that it is the same bust-lebrities that are the bustie bullies. Then of course, bc they are bust-lebrities, many "lessers" in the lounge go right along with them to avoid the confrontation we are speaking of.

of course, alot of this is exactly how many women are IRL. I know I will get totally skewered for saying that but it's probably why I came here (most of the time feminists AREN'T like that). Of course, we could just chalk it up to human nature too. who knows.

Whether PO and Psychicfemme are the same person, we will never know. However, if they weren't well, I don't see PO coming back and I don't see any lurkers who pride themselves on honesty and contructive disagreements introducing themselves either after they see that debacle.

If we do however continue to uphold what I would say are some pretty impressive standards with not putting up with racism and bigotry, then we can continue to keep out people like HB. Or, we can just go with the ignore thing, that works too.
This is kind of a "meta" discussion: disagreeing about disagreeing! wink.gif
now i'm confused. is there 'expensive' meth? just wondering.

ok, here are my random responses:

1. whenever someone says "some busties" i immediately think "who me????!!!"

2. i have no clue about these cliques-must mean i'm not in one smile.gif heh

3. i don't know who has "power" on this board, and who is a "lesser." i just post wherever and whenever i feel like it.

4. i think we can each decide for ourselves who we think is a troll, who we put on ignore. do we have to come to a consensus? i think po is a troll, AP doesn't-do we have to agree? cause i'm not changing my mind, and I bet AP won't either!

yup, that's about it.
LOL Maddy- I know I keep thinking, ohmy.gif I'm not one of them, am I? I guess I tend to think of Busties in terms of how often they post...not that quantity has any affect on quality, of course, but there's more prolific people, like Doodle, and then there's the Busties I don't see around here too often. I think there are some people here who are more reactionary, and I've come to feel that that's just their thing. I don't have to agree with them, I don't have to not like them for it; if it's an issue I have something to say about, I'll do it, but otherwise I've just started staying out of it.
I can't believe we are still talking about it.
well, it is a discussion board, ggg wink.gif.

eta: there is a sense of paranoia, "who me? am I one?" with the " some busties" but I think it becomes apparent with time ... however, for the most part, I take people at face value and if they are nice then I don't personally have a problem with them.
it's true, it is a discussion board. BUT, this thread is reserved solely for talking about PIE!!!!!!!!!!!! This whole troll discussion has been majorly OFF TOPIC! come on people, can't we stay on track? Geeeeeeez.

I'll start: I only like pumpkin and blueberry pie. That's it.

yeah, get with the programme, people!

apple and cherry.
I'm making this pie for Thanksgiving. It looks good! It's almost a cheesecake/pie.
Polly, that sounds amazing! I especially like the crust. Any time I can avoid making a pastry crust, I'm thrilled!

I'm making chicken biryani for dinner, but I'm really in the mood for pumpkin-y goodness, too. Do you think a homey pumpkin-y dessert would clash with an Indian main course? Hmmmmm ....
I think that would work- there's some squash dishes in Indian food, right? Maybe if you left it kinda au naturale and didn't sweeten it too much? Who am I kidding- I'd eat pumpkin pie with Indian food (any food) whether it went together or not!
oh my god its turned back to pie.
but it's the Thread For Pie, isn't it? i thought so.

i like pumpkin. i've made three in the last week trying to get the recipe right and given most of it away 'cause it's not. i'm not making my own crust though, buying organic spelt ones from the bakery that are suprisingly flaky and delicious. sadly the best part of the pie so far. boo hoo.
I'm so envious of Americans and Canadians and their love for and access to pumpkins; they are not so big here sad.gif. I can't remember where I was one time but I had great pumpkin pie. Okay, now that's really buggin' me. eta: remembered. It was an "american" coffee shop that is now closed sad.gif.
Well, Katie, if you still have something to say, then go ahead and say it. Nothing wrong with that. Personally, I'm joing the pie discussion because (1) I've already said everything I needed to say in the POFeminist/Troll/nicey-nice discussion and (2) I like pie. There's certainly nothing wrong with that either. wink.gif
On the pie issue, I wish my hostess for Thankstaking would get her shit together & tell me how many sweet potato pies I need to bake. There's gonna be between 15-20 people & I don't want shit creepin' up on me last minute stylee. I don't even know if there's going to be other desserts or what side I need to bring & it's a week away!
Sorry for ignoring pie (I can't cook it but I enjoy eating it) but I want to respond to some of the really interesting and meaningful posts in this thread:

It's always a little confusing to me when people post about cliques, or "bust has become nicey nice" or "bust is a place for X, not Y" -- I experience Bust as a bunch of people circulating at a conference or cocktail party -- there are familiar faces and people I keep up with, interesting people I don't know very well, people whose I don't really want to talk to, and total strangers I may or may not strike up a friendship with. I mean, there are so many threads and so many posters, that the generalizations seem kind of reductive and do inspire paranoia -- "I don't want to be a bust bully or overyly nice or overly mean or whatever." And while I think it's good to air our differences about how to handle explosive situations (or pie recipes, or both, as long as both are respected) - I also feel like it's another way to be passive agressive.

And the antidote to nicey-niceness and cliqueness is to call people out on things you disagree with. Whether you choose to do so in a constructive or kind way is your choice, and the response you get (and perhaps your experience of the board) will vary to what extent you connect with the people you're speaking with.

There are issues of particular sensitivity, and there are questions of context. However, again, I think the reap what you sow theory applies. If you give someone a harsh but insightful criticism, the target may not appreciate it, but the other posters may feel like it leads to a constructive experience. If you trample on someone's feelings for no good reason (bad facts, lack of empathy, malice) not only will that person, but most other posters who don't relish the thought of more descructive discourse, will cease to value your input. Whether it's a literal "ignore" button or the kind of skim we all do over the threads, that will affect the quality of your experience.

I may be naive or just not too well-travelled here (I post in a few threads but not a huge amount) but I just don't think any clique is big enough to "drum someone out." For example, auralpoison, I didn't know that you are/perceive yourself to be a most-hated bustie. I know that I have seen your name around in interesting threads, so I read your posts with interest (i.e. I don't skim). If you have a beef with other busties, I could care less.

The blow up with hummingbird was unfortunate, mostly because of the extremely destructive/malicious comments towards the end. And I felt supported when things took a turn for the creepy, but I also felt like I didn't want to be supported in things that I had done that weren't cool. Love me but see my flaws. And I think that most Busties feel that way, even in hindsight.

So that's my 0.02 -- I feel free to react negatively to people who are destructive or offend me, but I don't expect a Bust consensus. For me, that's a feminist response, but I do understand that we have a lot of different (and cool) interpretations of that.
Very well put, faith (as usual!)

I'm not sure what your point is, Katie. How long do we have to dwell on troll incidents? I say we may as well talk about pie and other tasties in between them! No one's stopping you from talking about whatever your point is.

Am I the only one who got PM'ed by the fundie tr**l tonight? At least it gave me the opportunity to find out that not only can we ignore tr**ls, but you can also block people from IM'ing you- in My Controls, click on "PM Buddies/Block List". Add the name(s) you want and select "No" in the drop-down menu under "Allow this member to message you?" Taa-daa!
No way! The asshat is PMing now? I guess when all your handles are blocked the tree falls in the forest silently. I know what I'm doing after this.

Polly, I'm guessing that the words you've displayed under your screen name have attracted him. Lucky you!

Seriously now. Faith, very well said. In fact, I kept meaning to say that TONS of people have made some excellent points throughout this discussion & I've really enjoyed reading everyone's contributions.

I gotta admit ... a big part of me doesn't feel like making pie tonight simply because it would have to be chilled before we could eat it. I'm thinking about making cookies instead. There's bound to be a recipe out there for spicy pumpkin cookies!
Great post, Faith! I think a lot of people seem to feel that they if they don't openly object to things they think are wrong, then they are silently supporting them. Which I can understand so long as they allow others the respect and right to their own opinion. My take is that there are tons of discussions going on in here... some are topics I'm not interested in or I don't feel I have enough knowledge of to add anything to the discussion. And still others that I don't agree with, but am not going to let my blood pressure get up about, so I skim over them, as you said.

Now back to pie....Bunny do you not have canned pumpkin over there? I know it probably isn't as tastey as fresh pumpkin, but it would be close!

Rose...can you pm me the recipie for chicken biryani? Mr. Pixie was just saying tonight how much he wants to go to India Palace for dinner, but it is not in the budget. BTW..had the lunch buffet there a couple weeks ago! Squee! ANd soemoen else snuck me back some Naan last week.
Oh, duh. I'm so pissed that my fraking avatar that goes with it won't pop up. Grr. I wonder what Mr. Fundie Pants thinks of Harold & Maude. Well, I shouldn't say that- I really don't care what he thinks of it.

Here's a recipe I recently got for Pumpkin Oatmeal cookies (it's from a website called Trader Joe's Fan, so it uses their products, but you could use any brand, of course, though I'm not sure I've seen Pumpkin Bread mix by anyone else- maybe Williams-Sonoma.)
faith, as ever you are eloquent. I think it's as simple as BUST being what you make of it. If people come across as being nice then I'm going to be nice back and take everyone at face value.

pixie, I'm honestly not sure - I'll need to check. I can buy fresh pumpkin here (mainly around hallowe'en) but it's not readily available.

I'm craving indian food now.
I came into the lounge to see what more was being said about the whole troll topic, but then you were talking about PIE!
I am a pretty good baker, but I am also pretty lazy. So I bought some of those sara lee frozen pies for thanksgiving. all this talk of pie is making me want to break 'em out early...
oh delicious pie!
you know what, at least we can all agree on pie. maybe not the type but the general idea of it!
looking, everything you need to know is right here in this thread. read away, it's interesting And delicious.

rosev, there are the most scrumptous pumpkin shortbread cookies at the organic bakery downtown. really, really yummy.
as for chilled pie, couldn't you just put the filling in the fridge for a bit and fill and bake the pie while you're eating? you'd have to get up at some point to take it out of the oven but i think that would be worth warm pie.

i think canned pumpkin tastes just as good as fresh. i've tried them both and they taste the same to me. 'course that depends on the can and the pumpkin i suppose but i really couldn't tell.
Hmm, hot pumpkin pie, even warm pumpkin pie just doesn't sound appealing to me. It has to be room temperature or cold. I can't think of any pie I'd really like warm- maybe a good apple, with ice cream on the side, so it gets all melty. Most cakes (unless it's one of those molten-y cakes) I think are better at room temperature. To me, the only things that I really prefer warm are cookies and brownies.

Looking, we just talk about desserts in here (mostly pies, but other desserts and Nutella, too) in between troll attacks.
Nice as pie.

I love sweet pies but what about savoury pies? - pepper steak pie is FANTASTIC!
totally ot, but y'all gotta turn on cnn glenn beck there is this amazing special on about iran and it is freaking me the fuck out. it's running again at 12 but basically it feels like another holocaust, you should see how many people are chanting "death to america" and their media is saying stuff like "pepsi stands for 'pay each penny save israel'" it's so crazy check it out!
((((faith))))) well said.

rose, I think the pumpkin would go great with indian food actually. I've made a curried pumpkin stew that was delicioso. I love pumpkin, whether sweet or savory. In fact I am still pining away for these fabulous pumpkin ravioli w/ browned butter sage sauce I had once.

polly, I just want to hug you for all the wonderful recipes you've been posting. I think I will be making those cookies this weekend.

bunny, look and see if you can find the canned pumpkin and make yourself a pie! Or pumpkin bread, which txplumwine posted her fab recipe for recently in barefoot. I agree with pepper about the canned vs. fresh. In fact, I've also heard/read that canned is often preferable, standard pumpkin tends to come out stringy. I think there is a specific kind that works (like sugar pumpkins or something) but I've just also preferred the conveniece, smooth texture and consistency of the canned. That and you can use it in recipes all year long.

I had the most wonderful pecan pie pumpkin cheesecake tonight. OHHHH yum. My sis and I went to the Cheesecake Factory for her birthday dinner and that was the dessert we shared. She said she might order one for the holiday. I'm thinking I might let my dinner guests handle the pies & such this year, because I am cooking everything else myself and the menu just keeps getting bigger and bigger, as does the guest list.

Thanks, Yuefie- (((hugs to you too!!))) Mmm, Cheesecake Factory. I love the cheesecakes I make (I learned from my mom and she used to work in a deli where all she did was make cheesecakes. Then she got pregnant with my sister and the deli smells didn't help her morning sickness, so she had to leave), but they make a damn respectable cheesecake for a big chain. My only problem with ordering an entire cheesecake to go from them is that they always come frozen, and they just don't have the same texture. My favorite there is the banana cheesecake. With a Flying Gorilla (from their website: Fresh Banana, Chocolate, Ice Cream, Créme de Cacao and DeKuyper Banana Liqueur) to drink.

This cheesecake was also in contention for Thanksgiving, but it looked too complicated. Hey, WTF? The recipe online is different than the one in the Gourmet Cookbook. In the cookbook, you fry the bananas and layer them on the bottom with toasted slivered almonds. I think I like the cookbook recipe better.

Looking, I wouldn't say most threads are a free-for-all; it really depends on the thread- this thread is more of a conversation thread so topics come and go in waves, but there are other threads, like the more practical ones in the Our Bodies, Our Hell boards that tend to stay more on track. Lurking in a thread for awhile to get a feel for the tone and topics is definitely a good idea, though.
This was only my second time eating there, and the first time was with my friend Shannon a few weeks ago and we shared the banana cream cheesecake which was fabulous! Heh, my friend Julie told me to order the Flying Gorilla, but I was driving tonight. I think I had the vanilla bean cheesecake from there once, a while back at someones party and I was not terribly impressed. I used to live around the corner from a place called the Incredible Cheesecake Company and it's a tiny little place that only makes cheesecakes that are absolutely heavenly.
Now THIS discussion is more like it!

I hate cake, but I loves me some pie!

Except I don't groove with pumpkin to well, though I love pumpkin bread...... I think it is a texture issue with the pie, YES, I am one of those pain in the ass people! tongue.gif
actually GGG pumpkin kinda grosses me out too and generally i am not one of those people. pumpkins to me should not be made into anything sweet. i think its cause the smell of fresh pumpkin grosses me out. my gramma's apple pie though YUM.
Oh damn you all, now I've just got to get my hands on pumpkin seeds. cool.gif My teeth are going to hate me in the morning.
HOW DARE YOU NOT LIKE PUMPKIN .... oh, wait... smile.gif

I must take it to the "argument" thread -- that's a scream!

I would just say, I like Faith's counsel, but, being women, some of us do not resolve conflict and shame anyone who's NOT "passive-aggressive" -- but, I have tired of this discussion, as it could go on and on, and make people feel creepy "does she mean me?!" I think that too, Mando! biggrin.gif unsure.gif

So, Pie. All I want to say is, Aural, if you have any leftover sweet potato pie, I would lurve to have it! In fact maybe that will be my only Thanksgiving food this year!

GGG -- I don't think you're annoying for fussing about texture -- it's a very important consideration -- those who consider and balance different textures as well as different flavors -- not too much hard, not too much mush -- are way up there in gourmet land.

eta: I put "psychicfemme" on block. Community forum. Ack!
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