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welcome to my life maddy....I work in an adoption agency...which in its own ways has jaded me against parenthood. In this field, there's a lot of beauty, love, pain, grief, paperwork...its not all roses. Having your own bio child is *much* easier for those that can conceive. I do wish every parent had the education and lifelong support of our families.

And I wish people could get over their idea of what their perfect family *looks* like. Does skin color really matter that much, people? Does it matter if your child looks like you, if you give that child your whole heart? Or is your love conditional by genetic pool?

Count me in the cranky camp today. Its been a rough one today.
Tell the people who say it all changes when you have one of your own that, yeah it changes, it changes from a nice sleeping baby into the f*%&#@% antichrist in ten seconds, and when it does I will throw it out the third story window for my dogs to eat and not have a second thought about it so shut the f*&$ up.

I get soooo pissed when people don't listen to me. If they don't believe it they can f%&*@!$ ask me to baby sit. They will have dead f*&%#@!* babies when they come home. So ladies say it loud, say it proud...
deschat, it is possible that you are even more pissed off about this than I am. ;)
turbo, i hear you on the whole adoption process thing, and the fact that it is easier for people to have bio children (for those that can conceive without problems, of course). i wish that wasn't the case!!!

i used to work in the area of child welfare and doing that for a few years totally made me think long and hard about wanting kids myself. at the time, i really didn't know any other families (with children) other than those that i worked with...i'm not sure where i'm going with this...but it certainly influenced my thoughts about family life, etc.

i posted in here a while ago about being on the fence - leaning more toward the wanting a child side - about wanting a child. i'm still leaning toward that side.

with that said, though, i agree very much with what everyone here is saying! i can't tolerate screaming children in public places - *especially* when a parent has the option of removing the child from the place!

that's all for now...i have to go care for my fish babies...
deschat, you crack me up!

ambercherry, I'm a fish mommy, too! What kind of fish do you have?
tetras in our big tank (we're currently medicating them because they're sick)...but in my little tank beside me i have three snails and a shrimp!
mmmmmm.....shrimp.....tasty!! ;)
Terms I HATE: Baby daddy, Bump, Yummy mummy, others will come to me . . . I read an interview with Britany Spears the other day and she kept referring to her son as "my baby." Like a person would say, "my car," or "my house." Really creeped me out.

I have one fur (cat) baby, 10 fish babies (1 koi, 2 sarassas, 1 shubunkin, 4 orfes and two dark skinny ones that I forget what they are. I have a pond that the fella just spent a day and a half cleaning and reconditiong, which is something I usually relish every Spring, except I have a herniated disc in my neck. Sucks, I wanna do stuff. I also have plant babies. Two tomato plants, two pepper plants, a gazillion greens of different sorts and a butt load of herbs. Not to mention roses, peonies, flowering, sprouting , spreading things that fill my life with the joy of nurturing something. And I do eat some of my babies. So There!
So I know it's been a long time since my tubal at this point (early May). I have another update, with physical reactions/effects.

One lingering effect I seem to be having is that my menstrual periods have become insanely heavy! I use a diva cup, and it used to be that I could go the twelve hours without having to empty it, even on the first day. And it only lasted five days with the last three days being pretty damn light.

Now, for the first THREE days I have to empty the diva cup every two to three hours!!!

Luckily it's not coming with cramps, too much. Periods have increased to about six days.

Anyway the doc said it was fairly normal and it should return to normal after a few cycles.
treehugger...thanks for the update!, MRG is hitting you hard. Thank maude you have the diva cup - can you imagine how many 'pons or pads you'd have to use? Let us know if the pattern indeed does shift back to normal - you're our childfree pioneer in here!
oh, god, yes rainara - babydaddy. What the fuck? And bump - makes me want to puke.

Feeling particularly misanthropic today. Hopefully I won't walk past the same trio of upper east side tween girls I have in the past three days as they kick-off their summer vacations with constant recreational shopping. Is this what the upper classes do for fun? Shop? 'Cause frankly, shopping bores the shit out of me. There is nothing I like less.

I know I was one once, and I don't wish them ill, but herds of teenage and preteen girls are the worst group of people on the planet. Gar.

I was walking a couple of clients' dogs yesterday, a really sweet boxer and a cavalier king charles spaniel - two of the nicest and dopiest dogs on the planet. This girl, probably about 13 or so, was walking past, carrying a baseball bat. As she passed us she raised the bat over her head and glared at me like she was going to hit the dogs.

WTF? I mean, I know there are people who don't like animals, or have had bad experiences with dogs and like to avoid them. That's fine. But why actively threaten a couple that are on-leash and are not even looking at you? Why not just duck into a doorway until they pass or cross the street? I don't get it.

In semen news - One more analysis to go! Currently, Mr.Luci IS shooting blanks, but I want one more confirmation before the condoms disappear from our lives. Yay!
yay luci!! I hope the analysis goes well...I think I'd want a few tests too before I felt comfortable.

We've got a group of siblings on our street who recently got a lab/pitt mix puppy. They run around the 'hood with it off leash, and now they're invading our dog park. I don't mind the dog so much, but I *do* mind them running around chasing the other dogs, and screeching constantly. Turbo does *NOT* like screeching children in his safe space, and hides from the kids. Not fun. I'm hoping that when school is out next week that they will not be in our park during the evening hours when all the neighbors gather. As it is now, we're all avoiding the park, and I miss my social time, as does Turbo.
oh, god, turbo - kids in the dog park. So fucking uncool.

last weekend we went to dogle at tompkins square - they have two runs there - one for the big dogs, one for the small dogs. The signs are extremely clear - children must remain seated in the small park and are not allowed in the big park. Additionally, no humans allowed without dogs. Pretty straightforward.

Except I guess the rules didn't apply to one woman and her goldensprog boys. She not only didn't have a dog, the two little mistakes were running after the poor puppies, picking them up by their shoulders and screaming at them when they leapt on them and really making things uncomfortable. I don't understand WHY the people in the park put up with it. We had to leave because I was getting so worked up over it and Mr.Luci was about to blow a gasket. We don't even have a dog; we just hang over the fence and giggle at the puppies. But I wanted to do some serious smacking.

I mean, there's a huge kid playground maybe 100 feet away. Why not play there? Are her kids entitled to harass the dogs that way? Are they just so precious and wonderful that the dog-people were just begging to be exposed to them? She was on her cell phone the entire time and completely ignored their behavior. I was floored by that.

And I hate them.
You know, I don't really care about kids at the dog park, but just like the dogs - they need adult supervision. And sadly, in our neighborhood, parents use the lifeguards at the beaches for daycare, because they can't afford summer daycare. This particular mother is using the pup to get her 4 kids out of the house every afternoon...oh, and none of them pick up poop - not the mom, not the kids. I offer them bags every chance I get. But 4 kids ranging in age from 4-11 should not be running around the neighborhood with a puppy for hours a day without supervision. And is that pup likely to get good, consistent training in that house...not likely. We'll be lucky if they get her fixed.

Sorry for taking over the thread with child/pet rants...
turbo, luci -- so irritating!

sorry to add another child/pet rant, but...

We live on a beach. Which is fabulous from Labor Day to Memorial Day, because we can walk up and down the beach right outside with our dog. But in the summer, it's a "no-dogs" beach, where unaware dog owners can be ticketed $100 for walking their dogs. Meanwhile, tons of kids run around screaming their heads off all day.

I really don't mind the kids. It's a public beach, and kids need somewhere to run around and scream (I'm generally happy to see kids outside getting some exercise rather than planted in front of the tv anyway). And I can understand that unleashed dogs can be disruptive and make some people uncomfortable. Fine.

But leashed dogs are nowhere near the public nuisance that the kids are. If I have to deal with someone's unsupervised, screaming kids, they should at least be able to deal with my quiet, leashed dog. hmmph.

sorry to hear that the MRG has been especially mean, treehugger. good luck with the analysis luci (yay for no bc!).
ditto, that lot - we also live on a beach, with the same stupid no pets rule, and its really annoying. My dog gets hot and wants to wade in the water but the lifeguards yell at us. Worse, our building has a portion of the beach that is private - meaning the lifeguards can't yell at us...BUT, my condo building has a no pets on the beach policy too...there is no justice! Stupid city of chicago.
I love having other things to care of and nuture instead of kids. My 3 dogs, my aquarium, my turtle, my houseplants, my flower garden, not to mention I get to spoil the shit out of Mr. ginger. And it's so much easier to find a friend to watch the house and let the dogs out if we go out of town, or on a day trip. Versus the agony of trying to find a baby sitter.

I simply adore not having children!

PS no dogs on the beach, but children can run amuck that is crap!
that's so unfair about the beaches. I mean, I understand, sort of - there are people who won't clean up the dog poo (and they shouldn't be allowed to have dogs) and so they ruin it for everyone else. Fuckers. But the pups need to cool down too...more so than the kids, in my opinion, since they can always get in a cold shower... called me today during my first walk (that's right. I'm a dogger. Lurve the puppies!) and apparently, because his first analysis was all clear, his fantastic urologist said that there's no need for another one!!

(...especially considering he performs the surgery by not only cutting off bits of vas deferens and cauterizing them, he also folds one end over and puts permanent sutures in them. Those tubes are NOT rejoining).

woooooooot!!!! I'm buying champagne again!!!

*hugs to all the fabulous CF busties!!!!! I'm giddy!!*
Oh, turbo...they did that here, too, where the city banned dogs from certain beaches. Mainly because of the few bad apples who don't clean up the poo. (Although in our small "country-city," they also had to ban horses from the beach for the same reason.) The city did offer up an old former-water reservoir as an official "Pooch Park," and put in grass and trees and stuff. BUT it's way out by the airport and you have to take your car to get there. I suppose at least it's something, and I always see doggy socializing when I drive past. Nevertheless, you can walk dogs on my part of the beach, when we have one (3/4 of the year), so you and turbo should totally come visit me. :-)
right on luci!!! Enjoy your champagne (and the bareback sex of course)! (((giddiness hugs for luci)))

People who don't pick up the poo really do give dog owners a bad name...still, I think if the city can patrol the beach and ticket people for having dogs, they could just as easily ticket people who don't pick up after their pups (if leashed dogs were allowed).

And just so I don't get too far OT, people are always leaving dirty diapers on the beach. It's not as commonplace as trash like empty soda cans, but more than you would think. Or at least more than I would think. And again, my dog is a $100 fine, but no one ever gets ticketed for littering. Sorry to go OT again.

ginger, what kind of turtle do you have?
lot, I have a Malaysian box turtle which I rescued. Actually I also rescued an african spur thigh tortiose, but he grew to big for me so I found him an awesome home where he could stretch his stubby legs.
"And just so I don't get too far OT, people are always leaving dirty diapers on the beach."
EWWWW, I know! I just went to the beach a few days ago and had the misfortune of almost stepping on one.

Parents who don't care about their kid's poo are disgusting. Way back in the day I was a lifeguard at a waterpark and had the misfortune of KiddieLand duty one day. Un-pottytrained kids are supposed to wear these rubber diaper things so that the rides and water don't get contaminated by E Coli. Well one day (of COURSE when I was on duty) a toddler took a massive dump right at the top of a water slide, so we had to shut down that entire area. The parent didn't even blink. Nasty.
good maude, lot - do we live in the same neighborhood? There is a veritable war going on in our 'hood - dog poo vs diapers in the parks...I mean WTF....there's garbage cans every 10 yards for both...why can't everyone just be responsible?

ginger...that's so cool that you had a tortoise! And that you found a wonderful home for him! I've always loved turtles....
i remember not long back a child took a poo right in the middle of the furniture store where my roommie works. and it happened just the other day again! kids make 100x worse messes than dogs for sure!
Oh, sweet lard, that reminds me of a couple of months ago when this chick came into our cell phone store with her three hellspawn and let them run wild while she shopped for phones. One of them was like five or six and still wearing a diaper and *still* managed to piss all over our only bench and in various spots all over the floor, while the other two ran around pulling off live demo phones from their stands and setting off alarms each time. At one point the pisser was actually scooting herself across the floor on her butt (like a dog) and leaving wet spots. Her mom just stood there at the counter talking about her service and ignoring the hellions. Nasty, nasty, nasty bad mom!!! And they were there for over an hour....
sixel, clover, faerie, the horror!

And it's quite mortifying that the diaper thing is a problem other places too...I was thinking that perhaps people here couldn't see the trash cans, or something. gah. I mean, I feel bad if the wind carries off my paper napkin...what are these people thinking?

turbo, I wish we were in the same neighborhood. Then we could protest against the powers that be to ticket for poo-related littering and not well-behaved dog-walking.

Aw ginger, stubby legs! I love tortises too.
what parents would be so crass?!? There are even diaper disposal bags in a DUCKIE holder to make them CUTE, for christ's sake. I'm glad my kid has me for a mother...she might have been seriously screwed otherwise.
aaww, now i want more water babies! i would love a turtle, but i worry we wouldn't have the space (don't they grow to match to their environment?). and rainara mentioned a pond with fish, and i cannot wait to have our own house, so we can have a pond! i also can't wait to have a fur (cat) baby...but again, when we own a house.

i just have to mention that i love my friends who recently had babies. i had them over recently for lunch, with their wee little ones, and they were talking about being new mothers (kind of the downsides and the stuff they're finding difficult) and they turned to me and said "are you sure you want to go through this some day?". and i thought of this thread. i know that they are totally loving their new roles and babies, but i think they have a good sense of reality, and (i hope) i can't see them being the kind of parents trying to convince everyone else to procreate...

oh - and the diaper thing? that's disgusting, and it's horrifying that people would let their children pee in a store/poop in a waterpark and not do anything about it!!!!!
moxie, not only is your kid lucky, but the rest of us are too -- I bitch a lot about examples of bad parenting, but really, seeing attentive, engaged parents with their kids always rocks my socks.

and amber, I think it's probably a small (although very vocal) portion of people who end up being belligerent about selling parenthood to us non-breeders.

I do worry that courteousy for others in parenting is declining...although I haven't seen any parents blissfully ignore a child who's scooting urine across a store floor (I hope I never do). ah, maybe I'm looking at the past with rose-colored glasses, but I just don't remember seeing diapers on the beach when I was a kid.
this is totally OT-but i hate littering and it makes me very mad! i actually have a sign on my door that says "don't be a litterbug" with a picture, because i live right at a bus stop and everyone leaves their dunkin donuts cups there-even though there's a trash can right there. (ours that we keep out for this exact reason since god forbid the city put a trash can by a bus stop or even a bus shelter so people don't have to sit on our steps)

rant over.

that is sooo sick about the dirty diapers, i guess now i feel lucky that all i get is homeless guys barf (once) and trash. better than poo! gak.

one time my nephew pooed all over my sister's shirt, through his diaper, and we were in mackinaw island, being touristy. so she had to like, change in public sorta, and she was so calm about it. i was like about to puke.

everyday i bless my iud. i'm still trying to come up with an awesome name for it. for now, i just pat my belly whenever i see an annoying kid, and i say, thanks mirena!
diapers left on a beach? or other random places? EEWW! i'd be pissed too. i've got kids and i've been there where maybe they need a change right now and well, sometimes people may not be happy about it, but i sure as hell take the diaper and wipes with me!

i love my kids, but i don't exactly feel obligated to love everybody elses kids. and i don't feel that just cuz my kid is cute that he won't annoy someone else. that little story about the lady and kids in the cell phone store is just unbelieveable. unbelieveable.
I hate it when I see diapers in parking lots!!! Who thinks its okay to change a diaper and toss it out the car window?

This is my favorite pic of the tortoise, Jello, I used to have:[URL=][img][/img][/URL]
awww he looks so sweet, and I love his name!!
Jello! What a cutie.
mmmmmm...turtle....tasty ;)
Not only is the diaper thing gross but did you all hear of the gross vomit 'n diarrhea inducing critters you can get from grocery carts? the place where kids sit is full of feces and germs and they spread this gross virus so don't EVER put food in that spot. or your purse for that matter.
Yeah, the general public is turning me into a total mysophobe. I thought it was funny and a little extreme when I first started working there and the girl I share a computer terminal with had a large can of Lysol next to her monitor.

Now I have my own can.

Grocery carts-my local grocer has handi-wipes by the carts for people to wipe the seat and handle. I still usually use a basket, tho.
ugh, clover, I hadn't thought of the grocery cart thing....that squicks me out. Thankfully, I shop at a store with the little teensy carts that you put the baskets in, so there's no place to put a baby in those. thank cod. eeeew eeew eeeewwww.

oh, and I keep the lysol wipes in my drawer at work...volunteers and students often use my computer when I leave, so I like to wipe my keyboard and phone down after.
i dont know guys, being that anti germ is what is making anti biotics ineffective for serious diseases. you wont find me using any of that anti bacterial stuff and studies have shown that people who arent germ crazy with their children have healthier kids.
if all these things were that dangerous, you would be having diarrhea and all this other shit constantly. avoiding it i think most likely harms you in the end.
katie-I think it matters how much you come into contact with the public, too. I rarely if ever get sick (I had a cold maybe a year or two ago?) but before this job I was working at restaurants (in the kitchen). Now I come into contact with 40 or so different people each day, and some are just plain nasty (and stand way too close, drool/sneeze on my phone, and other disgusting things). I don't use a lot of anibacterials at home and haven't taken an anti-biotic in years, so I'm not too worried about overuse. I just don't want to get whatever these sick bastards have.

of course, stupid isn't catching...but wouldn't it be nice to have an anti-stupid spray anyway?!
katie - I don't really use any antibacterial stuff *except* for my lysol wipes on my keyboard - germs pass fast in an office, and I don't think wiping the keyboard down after a student uses it is too extreme. I don't like people using my keyboard and phone, and if I'm a little OCD like that, so be it....maude knows I'm not a great housekeeper otherwise. ;)
ewww - you know what squicks me out? when I'm sweeping and cat hair and grit and whatnot gets blown around and settles on my sandles. Feeling that stuff on my toes makes me dance a little dance of ickiness just to shake it off my feet.


turbo, I used to do that when I was a receptionist, too. Especially the mouthpiece on my phone...
I've seriously gotta find me some lysol wipes. I didn't know they made them. And I tend to come down with whatever's going around.
just be careful w/ those lysol wipes. they are toxic to humans and animals. it might be better to get a spray bottle and put some alcohol in it and spray that.
I like the Clorox wipes, I don't think they are toxic since you can use them on food surfaces.
Ok, y'all are squicking me out now. And I'm not a even a germaphobe. BACK to the topic! :-)

Childfree is...

...not having to censor your music choices.

...not having to censor yourself!

...leaving lit candles on all the low surfaces in your living room.

...working on art or craft projects till the wee hours.

...making a ginormous bowl of potato salad and living off it for a couple of days.
Disposable nappies are one of the worst things in terms of landfill and the environment, too. Why can't people use cloth? I know from growing up with younger sibling that nappy washing is not the end of the world.

I know it can't be pleasant dealing with your child's shit but surely it's just part of being a parent, plus the future is something their children will be living in, so why mess it up more than necessary?

ven, because they don' about the future. It's all lip service ("We're raising the future! We're supplying fresh human meat! We're important because and only because we have replicated ourselves!") to cover for the fact that multiple biological reproduction (more than one child), in the face of what is happening and is going to happen to the planet, is the most selfish thing a person could undertake.

Personally speaking, anyway.
we are overpopulated as it is. i wish people would take that into consideration before they selfishly reproduce.
I have been pratically, stoned for mentioning the possibility of needing to limit the number of kids people are allowed to have. But population control is a real issue.
you know, i'm only mid-20's, but my parents used cloth diapers on me. it's not that hard, people. and it saves money, too.

what creeps me out are those "swimming diapers". those two words should never be in the same sentence together. (of course, i can't offer an alternative other than "don't let your un-potty trained child swim near me." :-) )
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