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That article was pretty good, star. I don't understand this whole cult of motherhood thing right now. It feels like were back in the 50s when women were pretty much just encouraged to get married and start popping out kids. What gets me the most is when people call CBCers "selfish". I mean, the world is already way overpopulated and we have people who in the past would not have been able to have children now having 10 or 12 or whatever ridiculous number because they had one set of multiples but wanted to "try for just one more". And yet NOT having children is selfish? Give me a break.
QUOTE(turbojenn @ Apr 12 2009, 10:11 PM) *
You know what I love - hanging out all day, doing not much of anything, then splitting a bottle of champagne with turbomann and having sex all over the apartment all afternoon/evening. Couldn't really do that with a kid (or at least not with alot of foreplanning). heh.

I may not want children, but damn girl, you've made me really, really want a man now just because this sounds like an awesome way to spend the evenings!
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Apr 7 2009, 06:26 AM) *
candy, after i saw the anne coulter ad, nothing phases me. although if they posted girls gone wild ads, i think i might be a little WTF, but only a little blink.gif .

The ads are not selected by the site, but by a generator that bases them on site content. If there is a lot of posts about Ann Coulter, it sends a message to GoogleAds, or whatever and then they advertise for her.

It's pretty stupid, but some outcomes can be hilarious.

I am so very sick of mommy-bloggers and their internet wars.

Obviously, becoming a mom to some people means spreading your vapidness and self importance over the internet. I love Dooce and some other "mommybloggers", but it is just so fucking out of control.
QUOTE(shiningstar8223 @ Apr 9 2009, 11:09 PM) *
Hi Everyone,

I am new posting on here and I would like to ask everyone at what age did you know that you didn't want kids?
Thanks smile.gif

I told my mother when I was 5 that I did not want kids and that I wanted a BMW, and my sister would have the kids.

QUOTE(hellotampon @ Apr 17 2009, 08:29 PM) *
When a guy gets a vasectomy does he still ejaculate? And if he does, does it look the same?

Yes and yes.
QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Apr 21 2009, 01:41 PM) *
That article was pretty good, star. I don't understand this whole cult of motherhood thing right now. It feels like were back in the 50s when women were pretty much just encouraged to get married and start popping out kids. What gets me the most is when people call CBCers "selfish". I mean, the world is already way overpopulated and we have people who in the past would not have been able to have children now having 10 or 12 or whatever ridiculous number because they had one set of multiples but wanted to "try for just one more". And yet NOT having children is selfish? Give me a break.

Even if it is selfish, why does it matter? Some of my reasons for not having kids are selfish; some are not. None of the selfish reasons (like not wanting to throw most of my income away on a kid for the next 25 years) come at the expense of anyone else. To be selfish means to seek your own pleasure without regard for others. I can't think of many reasons to stay childfree that hurt other people aside from the nonexistent child itself. Children cost a lot of time and money and they're often detrimental to the parents' personal happiness and relationship with one another. If you have a child and end up neglecting it in favor of pursuing those things you're supposed to have given up, then that's being selfish. If there is no child then there's no harm in doing what parents cannot do. But since all adults are expected to have children, even the ones without kids are held to the same expectations as the ones who are parents.
Shopping for this baby shower even further drives home the point of being child free. I mean really why does a carseat cost 100.00? Do we really need a wipes warmer for 24.00?? I mean the stuff on this chick's registry was just ridiculous. Are all these gadgets necessary? Why does a boppy pillow cost so much? In a few months little Tommy won't even be able to fit on this thing.

I imagine our grandmothers look at all this "newfangled" stuff we've got now and shake their heads. It should not cost that much to have a baby shower or get supplies for a newborn. I'll stay child-free thanks!
konphusion, at the two baby showers I went to my mom and her friends often looked at the stuff and said "What the heck do you need this for? In my day we...." and then they went on to explain how to do normal things like throw out a dirty diaper or sanitize a baby bottle. It's kind of ridiculous how many gadgets have been invented to do regular tasks. I'm sure that some are helpful but others are so obviously useless.
Kophusion, I agree! Babies have so much stuff. I hate clutter in my life. I could never stand to have a kid because I couldn't handle having all that useless stuff around my house. tongue.gif

And wipe warmers=the biggest waste of space ever.

really? uggh.

Found this and thought you all might get a kick out of it. I like the "Pregnant Women are Smug" song.

STFU, Parents

Now if you must excuse me, I have to go bleach my brain and forget there are people who would hire a baby sitter but be too cheap to get a hotel room.

Oh my god, this site is hilarious. And kinda sad. It just bugs me when people have kids and then only want to talk about the kid and they let the damn kid do whatever he/she wants.

ie. My friend had a little boy. One time when both of our families got together the kid grabbed my expensive lip gloss and started gnawing on the container. His mom didn't do anything. Later, when he was able to run around, he grabbed something and started whacking it against our vintage mahogany end tables. I'm not trying to sound stuffy but for fuck's sake, that kid dented one of the few nice things in our house!!
Great site, lilac. I posted the Pregnant Women Are Smug video to my Facebook least one of my friends is pregnant and I'm not sure she'll see the humor in it, and I don't care.
I tried to post that video on my Facebook page but it just wouldn't attach properly. All I got was a link to You Tube.
Glad you all liked it, I know none of my pregnant friends on Facebook (at last count it was three) would see the humor in it.
I thought the video was hilarious. I think it is a great song in regards how people can say dumb things to appear enlightened about life. I've heard people make those statements mentioned in the song. rolleyes.gif
QUOTE(candycane_girl @ May 2 2009, 10:41 AM) *
I tried to post that video on my Facebook page but it just wouldn't attach properly. All I got was a link to You Tube.

That happened when I did it at first, too, candy. I had to use the "Share on Facebook" bookmark that you download from FB (if you haven't already, you'll find it in the My Links section) rather than using the Facebook link on You Tube.

I posted it on mine and said "advance apologies to my friends who are/have been pregnant." LeBoy's cousin who is pregnant right now (with twins! oh joy! rolleyes.gif ) probably wouldn't see the humor in it. She's not especially smug or anything, but I just don't think she'd get it.

oh well. I refuse to censor myself on FB- I'm friends with my mom, a couple of my great aunts, my uber-conservative cousins....I still post stuff about vibrators and marxism. If they don't like it, they can block me.
This mother's day I am celebrating my choice to remain CHILDFREE! I will do this by spending the day naked with hubby. Here's hoping all you other CBCers have a great day! Cheers!
Aye, aye, ladyj! My MIL toasted to her daughter and daughter-in-law at lunch, "Thank you so much for being mothers and giving me the best gifts of all!"

Gee Polly, how did that slap in the face feel?
Oh, I found out later that LeBoy got her back. After I left to go to my family's thing, his mom told him that she had a dream that he and I had a baby, a girl, and she was just so happy when she woke up. He said, "Yeah, keep dreaming, mom."

*Sigh* I wish I could have been there for that, but I'm so happy he didn't just smile and nod like he usually does.
Procrastinating more than usual and found this interesting debate about male birth control (for those of us whose male partners have yet to get the snip smile.gif )

ETA: Crap. Link doesn't work. Try this
Mr. DM and I went for a vasectomy consultation today, and it went well. The nurse and doctor were very professional, and the doctor went into every detail, and answered all our questions. The doctor was even making jokes, which I assume he does to make the man feel at ease. The biggest surprise is they did not ask us any questions about why we choose not to have children, it was very refreshing. Mr. DM is having the procedure at the end of June, so I will continue taking the pill for another couple of months, but I'm fine with it just to be covered.

Mr. DM and I are not sharing this with family for now just to avoid any arguements.
Polly, I take it that leboy has not told his family about the vasectomy?

I can't imagine how horrible it must be to constantly get comments from family members about how they want grandchildren or nieces and nephews. It's none of their business.
No, he has not, and says he probably never will. He thinks, and I tend to agree, at least for now, that it would upset his parents too much. Not just that they'd be mad, I think it's more like they just won't understand and they'd take it really personally that he went to such lengths to not have kids, just the finality of it.

I dunno, I think at some point the truth might have to come least not until after the wedding. Selfish, I know. wink.gif
But what happens in your bedroom is your business and no one else's. It's not selfish at all. I wouldn't want to get into the ensuing converation.
Yeah, I could put an end to it without letting them know with my favorite CBC reply about how there's millions of couples who can't have children and they suffer through baby showers, parties and people who ask them, "when are you going to have a baby?", putting on a forced smile to cover up their pain, and how it's none of their business whether we're one of those couples, but they need to think about how much they could be hurting someone everytime they ask that question.

Or I could just get one of those "I can't bear children" t-shirts. Whatevs.
um polly? you (and leboy) are all kinds of awesome.
Gosh, I find myself wanting feedback about how to respond to others reactions to my choice to be childfree right now (I may want a kid way later). My tolerance can waiver. Some days, I may give the "not now--maybe later" with much poise. Some days, when people tell me that I better hurry up 'cause I am getting old, a part of me wants to say "Why the fuck do you care so much if I have fuckin' kids?"


Polly, that has to be tough for LeBoy and you to have to hear the value of other family members dependent on having children. I think my mother has finally accepted that I might not have kids for awhile or that I may never have kids. It has taken alot of explaining on my part about why I feel the way I feel about being CBC right now. Would Leboy ever talk with his mom about cutting it on the reference to having kids to both of you? I'm not sure how receptive she is or if you are ok with just letting things be for awhile. I admire how composed both of you have been when you hear such sentiments.
Thanks, gt- I try. cool.gif

I don't know if I'll wait for LeBoy to say something. Right now, it's annoying, but in a somewhat amused, eye-rolling sort of way. I'm sure once we're married his parents will kick it up into high gear and then I'll have to set them straight if I have to.
Polly -- That's annoying to deal with. I commend you on being mature about it. I would probably react differently and get myself in trouble with the in-laws.

Speaking of vasectomy, my husband got his done last Friday. Yay! I actually watched the procedure (it was cool!) and it didn't seem too bad at all. Right now, however, his poor scrotum is swollen and very bruised. I told my side of the family because I knew they would be cool with it. My mom actually told me that she does not want to be a grandma. We are not telling his parents, though. They would be very upset about it and I have a feeling that they would blame me for him getting it done, which isn't the truth at all.
Oh, you got to watch? That's so cool! Me being in the room probably would have made LeBoy more anxious than he already was; the valium they gave him to take 30 minutes before the procedure wore off after about 35 minutes. He's so freaking nervous with medical procedures, it actually took twice as long as they usually do because he was so tense. Even the anesthetic was starting to wear off near the end of it, to the point where he could feel some poking down there, but not too much actual pain. He was mostly just sensitive for a couple of weeks, but nothing too bad. Next weekend will be his second lab test- I'm expecting it to come back all clear since his first one was.

Hmm, better get going on that Good Vibrations order! wink.gif
Quick straw poll peeps - what are your main reasons for not wanting the babas? Mine are, in reverse order:

5. Vanity. The only things that I am naturally blessed with, body-wise, are a pretty flat tummy and very perky breasts. If I lost those due to having a kid, which seems likely, I know I would be pissed off and resentful, shallow as that sounds. Plus, some things about my body which I don't like (chubby fingers, thick ankles) would stand to get much worse during pregnancy, which I'm not wild about the idea of.

4. I'm an alone-time junkie. I would go mad if I couldn't have a large proportion of time completely to myself, with no-one about, so I can just chill the fuck out. I don't like obligations on my spare time as it is. Ergo, even more resentment towards the kid.

3. It's basically unpaid labour.

2. Tokophobia, like majorly.

1. I really just don't like children very much. I don't like being around them. I hate having to feign interest in the inane shite they find entertaining. When they start their caterwauling and wailing, or throwing their little tantrums, it's all I can do to keep my temper in check. 99 times out of 100 they just bug the shit clean out of me.

Your points are my points, Pointybird. Plus the thought of standing at the school gates socializing with other moms. Sometimes i just want to crawl under a blanket and hide, or go out of my way to avoid interaction with others. That is just not possible when having kids.

i have similar reasons, i honestly don't mind children, of a certain age, but only in short bursts. i have no use for infants. i tell them to go outside or to their room, and they pretend that they don't understand. they just lay there, trying to look cute, which i find irritating. i know what they are up to. the charms of infants are utterly lost on me. i look at them and see diapers and spit up.

mostly i think it's your number four. i hate having any sort of obligation. it's grown into a bad habit with me. if i know i have to do something, there is part of me that insists on NOT doing it. we are supposed to go to the opera on thurs? all day i will stew, get irritated at the slightest provocation of nothing. you are having a birthday party? i'm not coming. the only way i like doing something is if someone calls me up the day of, and it sounds mildly interesting. i'm fully conversant in child care, but i would refuse because i would get annoyed.

and don't even get me started on all the crying and manipulation.

no thank you.
GT, I am sooooo with you on obligation, it really sucks the enjoyment out of things. Not that I would really enjoy going to a birthday party for a bunch of toddlers. *gag*
my main concern was time. I work full time, part time and want to continue my education which is like another part/full time job. I don't want to have anymore to do than what I've already got goin on. I could not imagine working all day then coming home to care for a child. It is too much. I feel like I have made a decision to focus on myself and my hubby.

I enjoy alone time and just hangin with my old man. a kid would just increase my stress levels exponentially. I love my life the way it is. I don't want to give anything up

I ran into a former co-worker who hit me with the " I thought you'd have a bambino by now! " her words, not mine.
my response " You know better! "
pointybird, I am totally with you on the alone time and also the not liking kids very much. I'd have to add, for mine, the fact that having a child would make me dependent on somebody else...there's no paid maternity leave here and my job is such that I couldn't do it while least not very much pregnant. I'd lose my house unless I got help from somebody else, and I just won't do that. My house is MINE, alone, and nobody else is going to share it. Cause I don't want them to tell me what to do with it.
I must readily admit that time is a big one, but I also think I wouldn't make a very good mother. I am grappling with my own emotional issues, and I know how I am, so raising a child...not my thing. The dog pisses me off and I don't have dote on her every last second of my day.
I'm with you too pointybird, particularly on needing alone time and the inanity of children. I don't mind babies, actually, but young kids being hyper and older kids saying mundane thanks. I get bored with uninteresting conversations as it is.

And it really, really is unpaid labour. As more people I know are having kids, I just see their lives getting smaller and revolving around maintaining the house, maintaining the kid, rinse and repeat. Some of them love it, but I couldn't do it. I'd shrivel up with resentment...I already feel some because I'm living with the mister's kid. She's a good'un and he does most of the heavy lifting, as it were, but...yeah.
Sassy, congrats on the vasectomy!

Pointybird, what a great poll idea! My reasons for not wanting children right now:

1) Time - I like my alone time. I like the silence and not being bothered. Having a child would not fit in with what I want to accomplish for myself. I like kids. I don't mind the crying or anything else that goes along with it. I'm really good with kids. In fact, people comment on how I should have kids, BUT, I know the difference between being a kid(s) for 2 hours as opposed to them being with me 24-7. Total difference. Just because I'm good with kids doesn't mean I need to have them. I like kids because they go home with someone else.

2) Obligation - My parents were/are emotionally narcissistic. I've spent most of my life caring for them (Hello Codependency!). Caring for a child brings alot of resentment in me. Plus, I'm a caretaker, in a sense, in my work. I've let go of that masochistic need to take care of everyone and everything. I do what I can. Also, my aforementioned sense that my mother resents the mobility I have with my life. I'm not bogged down by responsibility and duty. I like my life as it is.

3) My body - My breasts are big enough. My body is not svelte to begin with, but the thought of stretchmarks is not enticing for me to want to have kids. Now, the thought of being pregnant and breastfeeding is romantic for me, in terms of nesting and nurturing, but, I just don't want to deal with it. Not now.

1. I don't even like kids. They're so boring. I don't usually think they're cute. I did a LOOOOOOT of babysitting as a teenager. Not just a few hours a night either. I spent every summer watching them 12 hours a day M-F. Or spending entire weekends watching these other little hellions while their mother was on church retreats. I was done with kids by the time I was 18. I don't even have the energy to pretend I'm interested in people's kids now.

2. Like someone else said, my dog pisses me off. He's cute, and I love him, but he's gross and needy and obnoxious and he's just a dog!

3. I really don't want to permanently gain at least 10 pounds. I have enough trouble with my body image as it is. If I'm going to gain weight it's going to be from too much wine and chocolate on top of a slowing metabolism. No need to help it along by having a baby. I just KNOW I'd end up with post-partum depression too.

4. Alone time- yes! I'm introverted and shy and I absolutely cannot be "on" all the time. Or even most of the time.

5. Kids are expensive. I want to travel. I don't want to have to try and save twice as much money because I have to take a kid with me when I go. And then be responsible for it the whole time and have to do kid things everywhere i go. Not that i would ever get to travel. I wouldn't be able to afford a kid in the first place never mind anything else.

6. All the environmental reasons not to have kids.

7. I've read about how kids are often bad for you and your partner's relationship with one another, and bad for your overall happiness level.
god tampon, that part about doing a loooooot of baby sitting was so my life, right down to the moms going on church retreats. i had cousins upon cousins upon cousins, and my sister was smart enough to leave early, leaving the kids with me. i have a cousin who, even as an adult i would call "little guac(amole)" when he would get assy because of all of his diapers i changed. kids had no chance with me after that.
I think my reasons are:

- I enjoy sleep. If it were a professional sport, I'd be the best. I am not a happy person when I don't have enough or when awoken from a good nap.

- I don't want to deal with the "why? why? why?" stage because I'd probably snap.

- I can totally relate to the "I can hardly deal with my dog, why would I want a baby?" reason- I'm annoyed that I have to structure my life around my dog's urinary/bowel needs, but at least I [usually] don't have to wipe his ass on top of it. And there's so many other ways in which my dog annoys me, and I'm pretty sure I'd have the same issues with a kid. At least the dog won't need therapy after living with me.

- The financial responsibility. Cod, we can hardly pay for ourselves.

- LeBoy and I are lazy when it comes to....everything. The state of squalor our house is in right now would be a death trap to a kid. I'm surprised neither of us has been trapped under a pile of laundry so far.

- I was a terrible babysitter when I was a teenager. No one ever died (although one of my former charges did commit suicide when she was 17, about 10 years after I babysat her and her sister for about a year....I'm hoping I had nothing to do with that.), but I sort of did the bare minimum of supervision.
My reasons for not wanting children are about the same as everyone else. My main reason is I don't want the responsibility. If I want to take a nap for hours or go on a trip I don't want to have to worry about a child. Another big reason is I had so much adult responsibility as a child due to the way my parent's acted, so I just never wanted children.
Yep, I'm with everyone else on the need for ME time, alone time, having enough responsiblity just taking care of myself and keeping the mortgage paid, let alone the environmental impact of all those diapers and shitty plastic toys that enter the house. Talked to my SIL this afternoon who is home "alone" this weekend with the 6 & 4 year old while hubby fishes with FIL, and she was reciting her schedule of 11 am soccer game for son, 1pm dance class for daughter, 3pm B-day party for son's friend, 4 pm b-day party for daughter's friend, and all I could think was UGH - sounds like a lot of unfun obligations for a Saturday. I'm just glad that she really did sound happy to spend her Saturday that way - to each is own. Me, I was thrilled to spend my Saturday puttering in the kitchen, walking the dog in the sunshine, and then heading to the beer garden with friends for burgers and sangria. Perfect Saturday.
hi, i thought to put this in the youtube thread, but thought it would be better appreciated here banned commercial -condoms

re the poll:

I'm torn about wanting to bear a baby and raise it. It seems like an important step in life, but maybe the worst thing I could do to myself. Like stargazer, I suspect romanticize come of it.

So the reasons why not are:

I like my time and space a lot

If my LDR gets to the living with each other stage, I want time with him, maybe a few years. By that time it'll be too late, I don't want to bear a child in my late 30's.

I don't want to put my body under the stress. The hormonal changes, the physical changes, giant needles, people in my business.

The public scrutiny that comes with being a mother.

Being able to afford it.
Holy Crap! I had no idea there was a name for the fear of childbirth. I have tokophobia too.


I would get jealous of the kid, I would start to think Mrs. Rouge loved it more than me.

I would be an authoritarian parent, the kid would end up a ax murderer.
It's nice to hear everyone's input. I got sort of involved in this argument the other day on Jezebel -

I don't think it's really fair to rag on someone just because her reasons for avoiding kids (the stretch-marked belly issue) seem shallow, although I'm glad at least one of the commenters makes the very valid point that no matter what, you're better off not having kids at all than having them for the wrong reasons. After all, what's more harmful?

But yeah, like most of you guys, I really just cannot imagine ever being ready for the kind of responsibility that having a child brings. I can't even have a dog because my life is so unpredictable. But you know what gets me? If I went out tomorrow and bought a puppy, everyone I know would be quick to tell me how ridiculously irresponsible I was being. If I announced tomorrow that I had accidentally gotten pregnant but was planning to keep the baby? Everyone would be telling me how wonderful it is and how it would be the making of me. Do. Not. Compute.
QUOTE(deschatsrouge @ May 17 2009, 05:40 PM) *
I would be an authoritarian parent, the kid would end up a ax murderer.

See, I have this terrible fear that my kid would be devoid of freak flag. Like the weird might skip a generation & I'd end up with some boring foreign creature that would shy away from mama's teachings of good stuff for her generation's Jonas Brothers, Twilight, & High School Musical.

But then, I wouldn't want to force my kid into being the biggest hipster douchebaby in America. Some friends of mine have a wee bairn that's already been saddled with a too cool name, sports a faux hawk, has his own podcast, & wears cooler clothes than me. He's three.

It's bleak, I tell you, BLEAK! I'm stickin' with the furbabies.
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