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That video was great, ginger! Thanks for posting it!

And belated congrats to oceandessa!

maddy, that's a great high school boyfriend got married young and is all family-man now. He was the "perfect" guy, and I always felt like I could have tried harder, b/c I did care for him, despite the chaos in my head. I always "wondered," you know. But now that we've reconnected, I think both of us can see that things worked out perfectly for each of us! He's so happy with his family, and I'm so happy being solo!

Reason #4593 Why I Love Being Childfree: Dinner CAN consist of half a baguette torn into pieces and dunked in a saucer of olive oil and balsamic vinegar, accompanied by a big pottery goblet full of shiraz.
Ha, ginger_kitty, that was hysterical. "It's not that I'm unhappy. I just could be happier."


And word, doodle. I plan on making greasy potato pancakes and smothering them with sour cream, bacon bits and salt. And then having a glass of port with homemade chocolate orange liqueur truffles. And then I'm going to get baked, make more truffles, and play piano for a couple of hours.

Le sigh
Yeah, as she's chugging a likker bottle in the background at the end of the skit! Heh.

lucizoe! No. Way. 'Cause I'm sitting here about to pick up the guitar, and already baked. Heh. Gotta love the holidays! CHILDFREE!!!!

(Um, that big Grinch stuffie hanging on my front door is mine.)
Waaaahh! I wanna get baked!

Actually, I have been known to get baked and play the djembe....heh.
Haha. My friend and I used to do what we called "bake and bake"... you can guess what that involved. Now I wanna have bake and bake again!!
Oh, man, did our recent trip to Disney World cement our decision to remain childfree. First of all, we wouldn't be able to afford Disney if we had kids -- we love being DINKs! Spoiled, selfish, money-wastin'-on-Disney DINKs. Aaaahhhhh.

But why go to Disney if you're not into having kids of your own? A few complimentary/contrary reasons:

1. I love watching kids who are having fun. It brought tears to my eyes a few times to see the joy and delight these kids were experiencing, like when a big stuffed Pooh or Tigger would come by the breakfast tables and hug them, and their faces nearly broke open with happiness. Going to Disney allowed me to experience the best parts of childhood vicariously; I really identified with the kids' rapturous abandon. Me and my partner Bill become very childlike while we're there, which is another great reason to go without kids. YOU get to be the kid.

2. OH MY GOD. SOME KIDS ARE SO FUCKING OBNOXIOUS. We could not have been more smug about not having to cart around some ingrate pain-in-the-ass monster like some of the kids we saw. We were absolutely convinced that we had the best of both worlds -- total freedom to please ourselves, and the vicarious pleasure of watching happy children experience a great time. GOD did some of these parents look miserable, and some of these kids...oy vey. None for us, thanks! But you go on and, uh, "enjoy" little Kayla/Britney/Tyler/Cody, and their unceasing whining demands!

3. It's so wonderful to see good parents in action: "This ride looks too scary for you? Okay, we'll wait over here while Daddy and Sam go on, okay?" My heart melted when I saw parents being loving and considerate of their kids; I beamed at every good parent I saw.

4. It's so atrocious to see bad parents: "This ride's not scary. Stop being such a baby. We waited on line for twenty minutes for this, we're not getting off line now." Meanwhile, the kid is CRYING. Great vacation for your kids, lady! Making them do things they really don't want to do, "for fun!"

Basically, you see the best and the worst of kids, and the best and the worst of parents. And both views are equally great, for the childfree. You want to feel warm and snuggly about kids and parenting? The best of it is right there for you to witness. You want to feel smug and righteous about not parenting? Go right ahead, here's plenty of good reasons to do so.

Best line of the trip: On a crowded 11pm park-to-hotel bus full of over-tired shrieking kids wearing princess costumes and Power Rangers suits, attended by exhausted, grim-looking parents carting plastic swords and tiaras and balloons and assorted crap in their overloaded strollers, Bill asks me, "What's another name for this bus?"


"Birth control."
birth control-love it!

i still think babysitting is the best b.c. ever, because it's a reminder of the good and bad, everytime i sit. it's SO amazing and great, for all the reasons you just said-i love hearing the funny things that come out of his mouth, how excited he gets over everything, i love watching him learn and understand, etc etc.

and, when he wont leave me alone for 30 seconds to go pee, i remember why i don't want one of my own.

i think it's easy to romanticize having kids when you aren't ususally around them, or only see them for an hour or two here and there....

this morning i was waiting for my bus, it comes and people need to get off, so we all kinda step aside so they can get off. except this 10 y.o. boy, whose mother says "watch out" but doesn't tell him to actually MOVE out of the way because he's totally blocking everyone getting off the bus. then the kid is on the bus telling him mom all about dinosaurs and space aliens and all these weird things, and i was like omg! i can't even imagine having a 10 y.o. boy who was always blabbing to me about his weirdo little outer space fantasies!!!!! gah. that would drive me nuuuuuuuts!
My first job was a ride operator @ Kings Island in the Hannah/Barbera, little kid land. That is where I learned that the parents are usually the enemy.

Usually we only had one operator per ride, which was quite taxing, especially for me, because I had to mature to even *like* kids. It really was not until I was about 21, when my first neice was born, that I started to like them. Before, I thought they were loud and stinky. Yuck.

My last day, I had some really AWESOME (not) parents, whose kids were on my ride. The kids did not want to wait until I got to their car to exit the ride, (they wanted to exit and be the first in line for the ride they were getting off. Who can blame them, kids are simple, sometimes, stupid, creatures, who can ride the same conveyor belt over and over again ad not get bored). Well, their parents, who were standing on the opposite side of the gate, were showing these FOUR YEAR OLDS, how to climb out form under the seat belt.

In the meantime, I was trying to SAFELY, remove the other 20 pre-schoolers before them, (all with the same M.O. to be the first in line again) from their cars. It was like the parents got super competitive and wanted their kids to cheat their way to the front, instead of waiting their turn. I asked the girls to sit down, then they looked at their parents, who ignored me, and kept telling the kids how to escape, then one little girl falls and cracks her head open. GUESS WHO GOT BLAMED?!?!?!?!


Security came for an incident report, and the mother wanted me arrested. I told her to fuck off and she knew damn well how this happened. Luckily it was my last day, which I made clear to Security before I used any profanity. I would not have used it, if this mouth breathing, she-Orka, was not screaming in my face.
Luckily, other parents came to my defense, so I did not get in trouble for that. I was told to immediately leave the area, return my uniforms and exit the park for telling the woman to fuck off, which was AWESOME for me, because I was 16, had five more hours left, so I would rather be anywhere, but work, for whatever reason.

Fuck that place.
Babysitting definately works as bc! I helped my sister all the time with my nephews when I was younger and was left with a distaste for childrearing. I like hanging out with them for the day then sending them home and doing my own thing.
Going to the mall is birth control enough for me. smile.gif

3G, that's an incredible story. Unbelievable. I...I keep wanting to write something else, but I am, as always, stunned at the unmittigated gall shown by the idiots of the world.
I felt badly for the kid, not just because her head was cracked open, but because I knew what an awful human being she was going to grow up to be with those "parents".
Oh my god, girlygirlgag that's horrifying! Jeebus.
yeah, poor kid, jeez! way to take responsibility for your kids-blaming it on a 16 y.o. kid who was trying to do her job. scary shit. my parents would've flipped out if i tried doing anything like that!
Girlygirlgag: I don't blame you for the expletitive, and thank goodness that you had other people willing to stick up for you!

As for the topic, I myself am "childless-by-choice" but don't really think of myself as fitting strictly under that label. I don't want children of my own for population and medical reasons, but I haven't ruled out the possibility of adopting one day in the far, far future. I'm only twenty-six now and a student, so adoption isn't going to be an option for quite a while. Even if I don't adopt I plan on becoming one of those aunts that helps her nieces/nephews/various cousins through growing up and schooling.

I like to be nurturing but I don't see myself as capable of giving up my life as it is now for pregnancy/an infant. My aunt adopted several older children later in her life and I see myself taking a similar path. All of these cousins were old enough to reason and learn and it was thrilling to see their personalities develop further under my aunt's mothering. They are all quite strong young women.

What bothers me is when people ask if I have/plan on having [my own] children and I answer no I am read the riot act on how sad and empty my life will be. I listen to this tirade and then say softly that I plan on adoption one day and it's amazing how quickly abashed people come and prompty stick their feet in their mouths. It infuriates me that 1) these people feel that all women need to have babies as if there is only one life path and that 2) the idea of adoption didn't even enter their minds in the first place, implying that adopted children are somehow less legitimate as someone's biological sons and daughters.
*streaks through gitty for not having to bother with kids on the holidays!!!* tongue.gif

*points and stares*

I am very glad to be kiddo-free, once again! Every parent I meet is incredibly stressed out, and everytime they mention the source of their stress, it is shopping for the kids, shopping for the kids, shopping for the kids. Or wrapping for them! Which they will all be doing till 3:00 AM, December 25.

AND I cannot BELIEVE how much money my parent friends spend on their kids at Christmas! No WAY were me and my brother showered with so much consumer largesse! Times have changed, and parents are in hock so their kids can have toys and techno products that they'll lose interest in (or just lose) within days. *sigh*


ETA: Ah, this is interesting...note the first question on the list!

We need a similar list of Questions to Ask Yourself Before Becoming a Parent. Any thoughts?
Word, on that doodle!! Coming home and visiting with the 2 yr old niece, 4 yr old nephie and 2 year old second cousin....I am SO glad that I don't have kids. I love them all to bits, but seriously, after 2 hours with my SIL's kiddos (who are smart and wonderful), I was exhausted!! Their little engines just go and go, and mom and dad are frantically trying to bake and wrap and all the other stuff, and it was making my head hurt just a little.

But it was interesting to see my SIL doing all the cooking and baking for my nephie who has a bad wheat allergy, and seeing what that looks like from the parenting perspective, and I just don't think I'd want to do it....its hard enough for myself. But nephie is finally totally thriving and happy, and he's fun to be around, and we share our "special food" together.

I love all the little kids in our lives, but I am so happy to be at my 'rents right now (cat allergy and all), where its quiet.

And with that, my darlings, I am headed to bed! Merry Christmas to all who are celebrating!
Heh, doodle, Mr.Luci was reading that list to me today. We were laughing about it, in a sort of "well, duh!" way. We forgot to do the marriage checklist. Shit!

No kids in my family at all, except for my cousin's children, whom I have never met and who live on the opposite coast, so I have no opinion one way or the other re: kids and gifts. I will say that one year my parents actually forbade my grandmother from buying us so much crap, but my NPD grandma got around it with her enormo pile of "New Year's presents." Ah, dysfunction junction.

Tomorrow our neighbor and a couple we know, plus my parents and I, are going to have a huge crazy dinner we're cooking - prime rib, mushroom-cheese appetizers, salad, sauteed shrimp, sweet potatoes and brussels sprouts, then homemade liqueur truffles, cookies, banana bread, Vin Santo, port, and other delicious wines.

Happy Whatever, Y'all!!!! biggrin.gif

Some nieghborhood kids were just playing in my yard, throwing a baseball bat at one of my trees, and driving my dogs nuts. So I open the door and really nicely ask them 'can you guys get out of my yard, please.' The little shits stepped onto the sidewalk and continued throwing thier bat at my tree. I looked at them like WTF, and the little smart asses were like 'we are not in your yard' I was like 'Do I really need to ask you to stop tearing up my tree? Get out of here.' I hate people's kids!

I agree with kids making the holidays, more stessful! When I was little I remember being psyched the year I got a pound puppy and the 64 pack of crayola! Now kids need the most expensive toys. My sister got my 12 year old nephew an I-pod, I don't even have an I-pod yet.
I ended up having to call the cops on those bratty kids. I chased them out of my yard three times, my husband chased them out of our yard and our nieghbors yard, when he found them hitting the nieghbors stuff with hammers in the middle of the night. Then the next day I go to check the mail, and discover them hitting one of my trees with a hammer. I asked them if they were new in the nieghborhood in an effort to find thier parents. But they told me they were homeless and had no parents. I commented on how well kept they were for homeless children, and they asked me for money before wondering off. Annoyed later that day I asked one of the nieghbors if she had seen them or knew where they lived. While we were chatting, the kids walked by and were like 'are you talking about us?' then proceeded to huff air freshner in the middle of the street. Not knowing where the parents were, I just called the desk sergent, they sent somebody out, and I haven't seen the little bastards since.
Oy, ginger, what a pain to have to deal with!

I guess there is such a thing as raising kids to have a bit too MUCH self-worth and autonomy....I know most kids are good, "normal" kids, but things do seem to be reaching higher and higher degrees of arrogant narcissism, don't they?
God, ginger, that's awful. Still no word on where the little shits came from? (spawned from pods, probably.)

Le Boy works at a high school; he's not a teacher, but one function of his department is to take ID pictures- if not for that, he'd never have to have any interaction with the kids. He tells me about how obnoxious some of these kids are. They give him a hard time because they're not allowed to wear any sort of hats, hoods, any headwear for their picture and they get one shot at the picture- even though it's digital and there's no film being wasted, if you gave them a chance at more than one picture, you'd be there all day. There are good kids out there, but it seems like the bad ones are getting worse.
Ick, ginger! Good on you for taking some action, though. People like that make normally mild me violent.

Heh. I used part of the xmas gift card from my mother-in-law for a set of light bondage under-the-bed restraints from Toys in Babeland. Hee hee! (a little unsolicited peek into luci's homelife for y'all) I've decided that if she mentions grandchildren once more I'm telling her what I bought myself for xmas.

And mr.luci might be going to France for work this month! Ultra neato. Unfortunately, despite my needling him for a year, he still doesn't have his passport, so he needs to run around expediting all this stuff. There was a mention of $1500 for a plane ticket and after my initial heart attack thought to myself - "Um, shouldn't the company pay for that??"

(I'm hiding out in here because the rest of the internet is really bothering me lately. Hence, all the unchildfree-related information. Ever have moments when all the news and all the people just seem so hopeless and awful and everything stings? Yeah...I keep having nightmares about people doing horrible things to dogs).

IMO, lucizoe, yes his company should pay for the ticket; also, you should be able to get to France from a major US city for well under $1500.

Will you be able to join him there for a long weekend?? Mmmm, Paris...

(Heh, that's true Syb...unfortunately, due to his passport issues he'll be buying his ticket absolutely last minute, so it's still going to be more expensive than it has to be. Expense account shit and all that, but we don't exactly have the extra money to front in order to be reimbursed for it, so it all goes through the company. He won't even be going to Paris unfortunately. Likely flying into there, but the company is headquartered in a midsize town right along the Belgium border. And someone has to stay home to feed the cats. smile.gif )
Oh, fucking fabulous.

Apparently it's now trendy to have 12 children.
You know what really bothers me about the that it's entirely about women's responsibilities as parents. Not one word about men's responsibility as parents. It's all about whether women should stay home, whether women should have more kids, how women should manage "our" workload. What about men's share of the responsibility? Does a man's responsibility really come down to nothing more than throwing money at his family? For that matter, where is the section of the article that discusses men's increasingly common habit of leaving their first set of children behind with divorce, and starting a second set of children with the new wife? Where is that issue in the "parents of many children" discussion? And that's part of a bigger issue - why does the article not even mention divorce, re-marriage, blended families, having more children with the new spouse, etc.? Seems very strange to just ignore those very common situations. The article reads like a sales pitch, while conveniently ignoring reality.

Just ranting. But it's just another example of one of the biggest reasons I do not want children: because the dirty work of parenthood is STILL assumed to be a woman's responsibility.
Exactly, doodle. And I know I couldn't deal with the assumptions from other people about my time with kids vs. mr.luci's time. Bleh on my culture.

Rage: Well, mr.luci finally told his mom that we already did the legal stuff for getting married (just the two of us and our neighbor as a witness at the courthouse, dinner party planned for May) and she practically hung up on him, crying. The manipulation is getting out of control. Why is it so hard to fathom that people may not WANT an enormo, stupidly expensive "wedding," and if they don't, that is their freaking choice??? It's not as though we excluded her in some sort of vindictive anti-her rage - NO ONE was there. We didn't want anyone there. Why the hell is that so hard to understand? And now I'm feeling like we somehow owe her an apology, although I honestly don't believe we do. I just want everyone to leave us alone about this.

Can't wait until he hits forty without having "given" her grandchildren. She's very into the babies. I don't think we're going to have a terribly close relationship. I also don't really like her very much.

Bleh on everything.
Blech. That entire article made me want to gag. I agree, doodlebug, that the writer must be living in an alternate universe of some sort! Like the "Leave it to Beaver" 1950's, perhaps? Or maybe she was on drugs when she wrote it. Whatevs. tongue.gif
Hey Luci, you should find a picture of roadkill on the internet print it off and show it to her and tell her it's her grandchild. I think that'll close all discussion.

OTT but I found out I'm infertile! I have polycystic overy disease YAY! It's great, I go for months without having a period and it's nearly impossible to get pregnant! *gives thanks to the infertility Gods* The only down side to POD is it makes me fat.

*passes around cigars and scotch*
deschat, yay! I wish I was infertile!

lucizoe, you don't owe your hubby's mother an apology! You guys are entitled to live your lives, your way.

I seriously didn't dig that article.
deschat...not to burst your bubble...but one of my friends has PCOS, and had about 2 periods a year, so she didn't worry about protection so much....yup, she got pregnant. Whooops! Anything can happen, my dear, even if statistically less likely! tongue.gif
Still not going to get pregnant, not having sex with men. (Dances through giant loophole)

I get to say I'm infertile to nosy people who dare to bug me about having babies. HA HA HA! then I get to make them feel guilty about bringing up a "sensitive" subject and tell them to never ask about it again so they won't hurt my feelings. biggrin.gif

Life is good.

This was one of my favorites of that CF retorts site someone posted awhile back:

"There are thousands of couples, desperate to have a child, who struggle with infertility, mostly in silence. Every time they see smiling mommies at the playground, or go to a baby shower, it's a traumatic experience -- reminding them of the joy that they can't have.

I'm not going to tell you whether we're one of those couples or not, because it's not your business. I'm just going to tell you how hurtful your well-intentioned question is to someone who is.

Please don't ask me, or anyone else, again."

It seemed a little harsh at first, but I think it really drives the message home.

deschats, is POD similar to PCOS? I have that, as does my sister and mom. Of course she was undiagnosed until about a decade ago because it wasn't a common diagnosis back then, but she had two kids despite the infrequent periods. Yes, the fat-making sucks sad.gif Have you gone on metformin/glucophage? It helps.
I, and my mom, have PCOS, too. It sucks. My symptoms are irregular periods, high blood pressure, weight issues, and I used to have cysts. I have no idea what my fertility would be like if I were trying to get pregnant, but hopefully I'll never have to find out. It does make for a nice excuse, though.
pcos and pod are the same thing. (I'm just a moron)

It doesn't really suck for me. I have made peace with the whole weight thing. I am worried about Cholesterol and blood pressure down the road. Since I'm still young it hasn't affected me yet.

Next week I go to the doc to start treatment. I'm hoping I can get back down to a size fourteen. *crosses fingers*

Should we start a pcos thread so we can talk about this more?
I thought there used to be one, but I searched for it in OBOH and nothing.
I have to admit that I seriously consider telling people that I am infertile so that they will stop pestering me about it.

I love the quote and will have to use it someday.
Met a new lady at work, who is also child free by was so refreshing!!!! smile.gif Her and I are actually the only women where I work without children. It's rare I find anyone in real life that I can discuss all the joys of not having/wanting kids with.

deschat, good luck and the doctor.
Heh. Next time I hear about the damn baby quilt from my mother-in-law, I'm whacking her with the news of Mr.Luci's vasectomy. Perhaps in detail.

Because my depression has flared up full-scale lately I find myself utterly panicked at even the idea that someone could foist a child upon me in case of death. I know you have to actually agree to be someone's legal guardian, but if my bro were to have a kid or kids and the only other option for guardianship was unacceptable, then, yeah, I'd take it on. But jeebus - I'm such a mess of anxiety I get myself twisted up into knots at the idea of something bad happening to my much would that be amplified if it was a little person I was worrying about??

Ick. Gotta look into that tubal. And make sure my brother isn't planning on children.
I'm with ya parents have both started dropping the "we'd sure like grandchildren" comments all over the place, since my dearest cousin had her baby last week. And they *know* how I feel about that, that I feel it is an inapporpriate topic of conversation that leaves no one feeling good. grrr....I generally just stop speaking at that point, and tell them that I will talk to them later.

Luci, trust me, no one is going to make you a legal guradian if you do not want to be....though even turbomann and I are signed up to take his sister's kids, should anything happen. I could do it, I'm certain...but I also hope that it never needs to be the case. They are wonderful parents to their children.
my sister asked me over the holidays, she said "you wouldn't want the kids, would you? if we died?" i'm like of course, i mean who else will take care of them? but i told her that i'd have to move in with mom and dad or whoever else because i couldn't do it myself. cause realistically, that would just be soooo hard. god forbid something happened to my sis and bro in law, but if it did, i'd make sure those kids were well taken care of, even if it was the hardest thing i'd ever done. i'd be like a ferociously protective lion when it comes to them smile.gif

my niece who is 8 called me the other day to ask me if i wanted girl scout cookies, it was just so funny. i could tell my sister had worked with her on what to say. she was all businesslike about it. hee.

i am soo lucky my sister has a boy and a girl, cause my parents are totally happy and there is no pressure. i'm constantly thankful for that, cause even though myh parents wouldn't bug me, i'd still feel guilty....
maddy, I'm also someone who feels grateful for the lack of parental pressure. In my case, my mom has absolutely zero desire to be a grandmother. I think she would enjoy it, but she's certainly not sweating the lack of it at all! She says if she ever reaches the point of wanting grandkids, she'll join the adopt-a-grandparent program.

OMG, turbo, that must be so frustrating! I thought your folks were really getting the message about you and kids. GRRR!

luci, I wish I could be a fly on the wall when you tell MIL about the vasectomy!

Inheriting kids...that prospect scares me, too. Luckily, no one will marry my brother! Just kidding. BFF asked me when her 2 girls were younger, and even though I agreed, I must have had a panic-stricken aura, b/c eventually she changed it so they would go to their distant father if anything happened to her. (Which has actually worked out for them, b/c it's forced her to let the father and the kids get to know one another.)
I too have fears of having children foisted on me. I have decided to refuse if any one asks. I have also accepted that my family finds me to be selfish. I'm over my selfishness, it's their problem now.

I have also realized that unless the child were gay, I wouldn't want to raise it. How awful is that?

*side note* Went to the doc yesterday and I have been prescribed Metformin. I was scared of the drug costs, because I have no drug coverage, but it will only cost $15 dollars a month. *sigh of relief*
I have 'inherited' a child, in the form of my boyfriend's kid. We don't currently have custody but we may by next year. This panics me somewhat but I am reassured primarily by the fact that, although I will be pitching in by simply living with her, I will not be in loco parentis. So, only half inheriting her, I guess. The mister has been very clear what I will not be expected to do, bless him.

What not being legally responsible for her means is that I will probably not be walking her to school or otherwise being generally responsible for her physical safety. What not being her official parent also means is that, while I may choose to cook or take her to a suitable movie, I don't have to.

I'm starting to look at this as all the good bits about (contributing to) raising a child without the crap stuff. She's good company and interesting, old enough that she doesn't need things explained her her a lot. I won't have to deal with other parents and their insane expectations (or hopefully their kids) or societal expectations/assumptions about my role. One of my biggest problems with raising a child from birth is the societal assumption (described so well by lucizoe and doodle below) that somehow as the mother I'd be more the parent than the father would be. Which is of course bollocks.

This way, I get to spend time with the young person in question without the day-to-day decision making. Sounds good in theory anyway.
Here's something to sink your teeth into~I was reading an article on MSN, and the title of this thread was blurbed at the bottom of the page, and of course it caught my eye. I was relieved to see a lot of people agreeing with the original poster, amongst all the "BUT, CHILDREN ARE OUR FUTURE!" crazies.
I can't believe someone actually used the phrase "the children are our future." Well thank cod I'll be dead by then!

Anyone who thinks a kid is going to be "seen and not heard", no matter how well-behaved they normally are, at a pool is an idiot. I was just watching a show on the Travel Channel the other day about the top hotels in Hawaii- most of them had adult-only pools.

I've never been to Vegas, but it just seems like a bad idea to bring kids there. For so many reasons.
The entire post by that woman is hilarious:

"What is the matter with you people? Children are our future, not barely-tolerated, second-rate annoyances! It is perfectly normal for children, especially young children and babies, to act up. But you know what? I've seen more adults acting out than children. Now that is what is annoying and shameful. Babies don't know any better, adults do. This is petty. Annoying families? Are you a hermit then with no family? Families are the backbone of society, and always have been. How can you speak so of innocent babies? Do you think they cry just to upset and annoy you? I suppose we should just beat our children into quiet submission to be seen and not heard, just so you can be comfortable. Better yet, lets just not ever have another one! Then our species will just die out. Peace and quiet. Were you a perfect child? No, I seriously doubt it."

She seems to think that people without children are hermits who have no families. Because families with children are the only ones that count, because they are the BACKBONE of SOCIETY. The plight, "how can you speak so of innocent babies" is just what the nutso pro-lifers argue-"how can you murder an innocent little baby?" They are all missing (avoiding) the entire point......AND, don't they know about those GUILTY little babies??!!

I am SO sick of people imploring me to remember how I was as a child, as if that makes the monsters any more tolerable.
QUOTE(humanist77 @ Jan 12 2007, 02:19 PM) *

I am SO sick of people imploring me to remember how I was as a child, as if that makes the monsters any more tolerable.

Especially since I know what a little monster you were as a child!! tongue.gif

Yes, it's a little-known fact that humanist is my sister.
Why does every place have to be child-friendly? Why can't people be okay with some places being adult only, and why can't they understand why adults, childfree or not, want that?
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