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yay, treehugger!!

go girlfriend, it's your birthday, uh-huh

*white girl cabbage-patch*


(Mr.Luci's doctor said "I'm not going to do the whole spiel, 'cause you're an adult and all, but you do realize this is permanent, yadda yadda yadda." I think he actually said 'yadda yadda yadda.' So yeah, I guess they have to tell you that)

By the grace of the goddess may you heal swiftly and have lots of sex with out the fear of spawning demons.
wow treehugger, good luck w/ your surgery and may your recovery be as smooth as a baby's butt!!! take care.
treehugger, i hope everything went well and your recovery is smooth. and thank you for posting all the details. my tubal was after/during a c-section, so i didn't know how they "usually" do it, or what the recovery was like.

I hope everything went well! I'm so excited for you!!!!
~*~*~**~~*vibes for treehugger~**~*~*~*~*~
Okay, I am going directly to hell. Someone on my childfree board posted a story about some 37 lb woman with a pretty horrific genetic disorder giving birth. One of the reactions included the phrase: "How does a handicapped midget in a wheelchair care for an infant?" and I almost peed myself laughing.

Okay, it's not PC, but the image is damned funny. At least to me.

Like I said, directly to hell.

Probably won't write a lot but I survived! Actually the worst part of the after-effects is like the worst menstrual cramps EVER. The vicodin isn't totally helping. I'm hobbling around.

The part of the pre-surgery that really made it sink in that I was doing something major was when they hooked me up to an IV!

Stomach is tender but toast is working. Cramps are subsiding a little. I haven't looked at my incision yet but it seems to be right inside my navel.

I'm FREEEE! Well, once my pain is gone, LOL. Anyway like I said, the incision isn't bothering me as much as the menstrual cramps.

Immediately when I woke up after the surgery, I kept thinking I had heard them talking all through the surgery but couldn't understand what they were saying...but I was told that what I remembered hearing was them talking before and after it. It all sort of blended together seamlessly.

Treehugger is barren!!
Woohoo!! Treehugger is a free woman! Sending vibes (((((Treeehugger)))))
WOOOOOT for treehugger!!!! I'm so glad to hear all went well today, I was sending you ((((((vibes)))))) all day!!
Yay trehugger!!!!!!!!!! Congratualtions!

*~*~*~pain-killing vibes*~*~*~
Another update!

I was just coming out of my major, major grogginess when I wrote my last post. Now:

Menstrual-type cramps have gone away. It's been replaced by my abdomen feeling like Rocky Balboa had a field day...very sore and bruised feeling. Hurts to breathe and laugh. I can now eat a little more and I had a VERY small amount of pizza last night, late. You know how if the pizza is cut into squares, there's like four or six very small triangles at the edges? That's what I had.

I found out ibuprofin (usually my pain reliever of choice) is totally not agreeing with my stomach. I had tried taking that a couple times in lieu of the vicodin but....can we say projectile?

Two vicodin for the night time doses and I reduced myself to one during the day (trying to keep out of TOO much of a fog).

Anyway, it wore off about a half hour ago and I just took some more and am waiting for it to kick in before I go back to bed.

Had a great time with my friends last night. The nurse was way worried about me having company and even called my "responsible person" to say she didn't think it was a good idea. We kept it REALLY low key and I really was feeling pretty decent by the end of the evening. Laughter is the best medicine, I think.

Anyway, other than feeling like I've been kicked repeatedly in the abdomen, I'm feeling much better. (sounds weird doesn't it?)

Oh,and doodlebug? I totally stole your line about "being freed forever from the tyranny of motherhood" when they were wheeling me out of the hospital in the wheelchair. Hee. Made them laugh and one of them said, geez, sometimes I wish I could say that!

Thanks for all the good wishes everybody! I'll keep posting and let ya know how it's going. :-)
So all week the guys my hubby work with, have been bashing him for being married. He works in an industrial setting so I know he is surrounded by guys that are rough around the edges (that's a nice way of saying redneck hillbillies) But still, it all started when some guy asked him if he got married because he knocked me up. He told them we didn't have children. And they were like then why did you get married?

Thier next question was an inquiry into my financial status. My hubby was like no we both grew up dirt poor. So they acted like he was a fool for getting married, since I wasn't pregnant or rich. The whole concept seemed preposterous and laughable to them. My hubby just shrugged them off, and told them he married me because he loved me. (I adore him for saying that to a bunch of redneck manly men, he was ridiculed for that)

Then yesterday to my great annoyance some guy I work with was preaching about the wonders of being a parent and talking down to me for not wanting kids. I hate it when people with kids, speak to me as if I am a young child who wants to do what the grown up are doing and I'll understand when I am older why I cound't join them. My coworker at one point said, 'you just don't understand, after you have kids, you'll get it and laugh at the way you feel now.' WTF?

So I asked him why do breeders always ask me why I don't want kids? I never ask them why they want kids. And he looked confused for a minute before answering, 'That is just what women do, that is what your made for.'

Thank god, I have this childfree sanctuary to retreat too!
I had a simply lovely experience last weekend.

My boyfriend invited me to join him and his entire family at the wedding celebration brunch for his old neighbor (the wedding was out of town a few weeks ago). So, we're sitting around the table, and one of his sisters asked me, "So, are you maternal?"

Um, no. Not really.

So some time passes, and his mother, apropos of NOTHING starts up with how she wants nothing more than to be a grandmother again, and how her son is the only one who can carry on the family name.

Boyfriend quickly nipped this line of questioning in the bud, thank god, but I was left with several questions:
1. This woman is Catholic, don't you think she'd push for marriage prior to babies?
2. Has she MET her son? He's is, possibly, more ambivalent about kids than I am.
3. My divorce was final less than a year ago. (All I can say here is that I guess she assumes that my divorce didn't effect my fertility, thus rendering it a non-issue.)

Because I generally like this woman, I didn't have the heart to tell her that if I did someday reproduce, my kids wouldn't necessarily default to the boyfriend's last name. No sense in giving her a stroke.

'no sense in giving her a stroke'...hehehehe well not at that moment anyways. kjhink, that cracks me up...

yay treehugger--setting the standard.

gingerkitty...did you slap him when he said that? cuz after all, he is just a sperm donor...not like he counts. egotistical males...its all about them.
good lord, ginger kitty. That man deserves more than a smack. That is so condescending. At least you have the sanctuary (and a wonderful guy, it seems!).

kjhink, my soon-to-be inlaws want a grandchild soon too. Meh, I don't blame them. I wish there were some kids in my family too. I just don't want to be the one to birth them and be finacially responsible for them. :-)

~*~*~*~more get well soon vibes for treehugger~*~*~*~


Ginger_Kitty, Tell that asshole that you were not made for raising kids but for raising hell, and if you did have a child it most likely would be the Antichrist, then tell him he would be the first one asked to babysit since he likes kids so damn much.
Heehee, I probably would give birth to the Antichrist, deschat. I was thinking similar thoughts, msgoofball. If women, serve the sole purpose of carrying babies then men must be even more insignificant in that equation since all they do is provide the sperm.

I wanted to slug the jerk, but I'd probably lose my job. So I tried to shrug it off. The conversation started when he was telling me when he was coming back from Florida, he got really mad b/c people on the plane were irritated w/ his 1 and 1/2 year old being fussy on the plane. And I tried to explain not everyone, digs kids and airplanes are really no place for babies. Then he became really offended/defensive. It ended with me calling him a stupid breeder.

kjhink, no one has ever asked me 'so are you maternal?' heehee I think I would have snorted! How rude of them to put you on the spot like that.

I'm glad you got some use out of my comment!! :-) Also....congratulations!!!!!!!!

ginger kitty, isn't that frustrating? I had a boss once with whom I had this insane arguement about parenting. He figured it was a woman's diving "job" to be the primary caregiver because she carried the child. I argued that a man should make up for the nine months a woman carried the child. He looked at me like I was insane.
Oh, my god, ginger kitty. I can't even come up with anything to reply to that! Does he know what year it is? Geez. I'm so glad your hubby seems to get it and is a little more ~this millenium~ish. I work with a guy who's a lot like your husband, we'll be sitting around a table and the guys will all be just sort of red-neckish and backwoods, and this guy will just step up to the table and tell them they're full of shit.

"so are you maternal"? Geesh if this site had signatures I'd so use's a classic that's for sure. Talk about being groomed/checked out! Kjhink, I'd feel so put on the spot!

It IS nice to have the sanctuary, that's for sure. :-)

As for me, I just slept ALL day. I'd like to have a beer tonight but I'm not sure if I should or not. They inflate the abdomen with co2 to get at the organs better and the gas gets in there and makes you feel all gassy although it's not the kind of gas you can pass. So it just sort of has to get absorbed into the body. It feels like a bunch of side-stiches.

I think I WILL have a beer. :-)
wow treehugger, that's really cool. I'm really glad you are giving us details so that in the future we can make a more informed decision for ourselves about whether or not to have this procedure done.
wow. Ginger. I can't believe people are so stupid. and I truly can't believe that people act like we are from outer space when we express our ideas about children.
When people ask if you are maternal say "I don't give birth to babies but I eat them."
heh. deschat, that's great. i might start using that one.

i had a refreshing experience the other day at work. a regular customer came in, and we started chatting a bit. he mentioned something about his kids, and asked me if i had any. i told him i did not --- he laughed and sheepishly said that might be a wise choice!

Is this wayyy too much information? Hey, you wanted details! :-)

I am going to have to poop. One of these days. Soon.

I am terrified to poop. I know it will really, really hurt.
Treehugger, did the doc tell you to drink metamucil or take a stool softener? Might be a good idea. I think you can get some kind of oil suppository that will help.
never too much information treehugger! You are our pioneer sister, blazing a trail so that one day, some of us might follow in your childfree footsteps!

Mornin' ya'll! Dog woke me up at 5am, just like clockwork....he doesn't "get" saturdays...that's as much kid as I need, that's for sure. But its gorgeous out, so a walk on the beach will be nice.
poor treehugger, hang in there!

doodlebug, I think it is is frustrating that a lot of men want children, but believe the female is supposed to do all the care giving. I don't understand the drive to have kids, but not take care of them, or the whole caring on the family name thing and caring less about all the responsibility.

Turbo, thank god my dogs understand Saturdays and sleep late with me. They know when I do get up I'll play with them instead of rushing off to work.
Heh. My last post should have read "a woman's DIVINE job"...not "DIVING job." Heh.

I'd like to know, at this point, why those of us who choose not to have kids are still considered "selfish" comparison to all the families who consume incredible quantities of the earth's resources and other consumables. A few weeks ago, my BFF told me that it costs $100 to fill up her soccer mom van, and that she does it at least twice a week (and she told me this before prices shot up again). Now, can you imagine blowing through a MINIMUM of $800 of fuel every month??? Can you imagine ALL those soccer-mom-van-owning families using that much fuel every month - again, at a MINIMUM? In this global socio-political climate? And under the current ecological condition of the planet? And...wait, let me get this straight...*I'M* the selfish one?????

I don't think I could handle even a dog - not by myself. I might consider adopting one if I have a partner again, but on my own, I think it's too much. I like my cats. I have them well-trained not to bother their grumpy human mama in the morning. :-)

How is our now-barren treehugger today??
*sends healing vibes to treehugger*

doodlebug, couldn't have said it better myself! $800 on gas per month. Eek! That gives me chills.
The thing that really made the whole "selfish" point stick out in my craw...BFF and I were talking about reasons for her to get a smaller car as a second vehicle (so she wouldn't have to drive the van as much). I mentioned that reducing her family's fuel consumption would also be a good thing to do for the planet, and BFF got this dismissive attitude like, "Why should something like THAT influence my decision?"

But according to general society, I'm the selfish and self-centred one for not wanting kids.

ETA: what exactly IS a "craw," anyway?
Yeah, gas prices make me happy that I don't have my own car...and very happy that turboman has a *very* efficient diesel, so he doesn't have to fill it up nearly as often.

I've spent the afternoon giving myself a facial, taking a nap, and reading a wonderful book and walking the dog...I'm not sure I could give up quiet Saturdays with the house to myself.

I think we're all selfish - parents and childfree - we're human right? Its just about being honest about who we are that's important, in my book. I think treehugger is truly inspiring for me...I've been pondering the tubal for a couple of years, but now I'm thinking it just might be a good 30th b-day gift to myself next summer, on the solstice, I think...which is a couple days before my b-day. How better to honor the goddess in us all?
Hiyah! I couldn't agree with you more, I can't understand how it's the "selfish" choice NOT to have kids...especially in this day and age of overpopulation and overconsumption. Sure, okay, maybe they could have told the women of WW2 that, and that's probably the reason for the baby boom, but no more! I mean really, how many soccer vans do we need?

As for how I'm doing. Um. I still haven't pooped. I'm going to drink some senna tea tonight (laxative tea)...but I'm going to take two vicodin before I think it's going to take effect! Heh. I think it could be ugly.

I was talking to an older lady (she's probably in her mid sixties) who lives here in the same condo as I do and I mentioned that I had gotten my tubes tied (trying to get some sympathy, I admit) and she said she had kids (vaginally) and then she had her tubes tied and the recovery from the tubal was WORSE than childbearing! I'm having a hard time believing that one....but there's a part of me who really wants to believe it because then I won't feel like I'm being a wimp.

I like to think I'm fairly ~not wimpy~...but, man. It really does feel like you've been kicked in the abdomen multiple times. I have to say, now, on the second day it's MUCH better. I haven't taken any vicodin today. I wanted to be able to drink beer with my buddies.

My incision started getting funky swollen (navel) and I started thinking I might turn into an outie instead of an innie...took my temperature and running a low grade fever. Which is a sign of infection. So I called the doc's answering service and they called in a prescription for antibiotics, in for me. Taking antibiotics now. I might not have needed them but I'd rather prevent infection before it gets bad, than fight it after it gets bad.

I did take pictures of my belly button but I'm not sure if that's anything anybody wants to see so I won't post them...just yet. If anybody wants to see, just holler. :-)

I want to see the pictures, treehugger! If I'm going to do this, I want to know what I'm in for.

My mom had a tubal in her late-30s. She said she had cramping and stuff, but recovered without too much difficulty. Seems to me I remember going to stay with my grandparents for a few days when it happened, though, so it must have taken some time and energy for recovery.

turbo, that's a great celebration for 30! Better than mine - I tell everyone I spent mine in therapy! (Had a post-breakup counselling appointment and an Al-Anon meeting in the same day.) Have you mentioned this idea to turbomann yet?
treehugger, you may have mentioned this earlier but why a tubal instead of IUD? just curious. I may go for the IUD in the future. if my sex drive ever comes back (I'm taking antidepressants). oh, and post those pics!
Turboman is trying to avoid the issue, and I haven't really pushed the discussion with him yet, but I'm pretty clear about what I want, and I've told him about my special b-day idea....he just didn't really say anything. I just know that amid all the other reasons for not wanting kids, *I* couldn't afford to have kids, and for me personally, I don't want to really have anything that I can't afford on my own...I need to be financially independant.

Still time to hash it out and figure it saturn retun kicked in 2 weeks ago, and my vibe is that this is the issue. I think I can dig it.
Hmm, cloverbee, good question. An IUD never even crossed my mind as a possibility. I guess I remember all the Dalkon Shield stuff and I also know with certainty at 38 that kids are not what I want and it seems every day, I am more and more certain. I guess I reached that "magic" point.

You know what's weird? The timing of your post, Doodlebug, about your mother. It does for sure take some rest to recuperate properly. For instance, every time I sleep, when I just take a couple of vicodin and let myself "pass out" into a really, really deep sleep, it does a world of good. About six tonight (yes, very early I know), I started feeling a little tired so I took a couple Vidodin and knocked myself out. I intended to take the senna tea but I forgot it. Anyway, I just woke up (four hours later) and, you know what? I got out of bed and I didn't even remember, for an instant, that I had the surgery. I'm feeling pretty damned good. And the vicodin should be mostly worn off by now.

So I'm here steeping some senna tea (again)...going to take a couple more Vicodin in an hour or so (more for the sleep effect than the pain relief effect), and let it all do it's job.

But, I seem to have turned a corner, pain-wise. I'm not standing up and walking around as if I'm eight months pregnant anymore. (I was standing up just like a very pregnant woman does, by tipping my pelvis forward and using the back...because my muscles were so ripped in the front, you don't use those muscles as much standing up that way.)

My boyfriend was laughing at me...he said, okay, now that you're a free woman, you're moving like a breeder! (he's a sweetie).

I'm glad, I'm feeling pretty decent! My shoulders ache, which I remember my anesthesiologist saying can be a side effect, seems there's a couple nerves that travel straight up that way...but, abdominally I'm feeling pretty decent.

Here's a pic: bellybutton pic

It's hard to take a picture of a bellybutton, LOL. But it's pretty swollen (almost swollen shut completely) and discolored if you can see that. That's the only incision I have.

Turbo, that's very wise of you. I feel the same way..I couldn't have kids and afford them on my own. There's no way I could keep the job I currently have, and I couldn't afford my standard of living without my job. I *could* get married or something and depend on a second income, but I hate dependency. I'm an independent sort, and if I can't afford it on my own I don't do it! :-)

treehugger, You're not being wimpy. I had 3 tots vaginally & it took me longer to get up & moving after the tubal than after the births. Also, I was told the achy shoulders were a side-effect of the air they pumped into my belly--It dissapates by travelling upward.

Congrats! Enjoy your new infertility!!

I definately couldn't afford kids and I'm married. They are just too damn expensive! My hubby and I have been cautious w/ bills to make sure if any thing should happen (death, god forbid divorce, etc) one of us could still
afford everything by ourselves.

ps don't worry treehugger you are not a wimp! :-)

When ever I tell people I couldn't afford a child, they usually tell me, "You can't wait till you can afford them or you'll never have them." That confusses me. I would be heart broken having a child and not being able to provide for it. I don't even want children and I think that way. It seems incredibly selfish to know you can't afford a child and have them anyway.
treehugger, rock on. so glad to hear you are feeling better and recovering smoothly.

It's probably true that many people aren't "ready" for a child (i.e., able to afford it, or whatever other reason)...but the difference is usually that those folks had in mind that they DID want a child AT SOME POINT.

Whereas with me, and women like me, not being able to afford it is only one reason on a long list of reasons. Which, when added together, form a very compelling arguement against motherhood.

How are you feeling today, treehugger?
Doodlebug I am feeling so much better it's amazing me. The senna tea worked, without too much pain, and I really feel up to going to work tomorrow. I may change my mind halfway through the day though, LOL. I still tire easily.

Really, I feel like I've turned a corner. I was puttering around the house today, did two loads of laundry, put a load of dishes in the dishwasher, just that puttering around stuff I didn't feel up to for the last couple days. The worst is over,that's for sure. I still feel like I did like five hundred situps though. But I don't feel like George Foreman's punching bag anymore. :-)
Yo, treehugger - you're not going to be taking any maternity leave - so take the day off tomorrow and celebrate yourself, sister!

I am glad that you are feeling more like yourself again!

I just went to the annual open house at the adoption agency where I work....its the one day a year where I feel like *well maaaaaybe* kids are sort of appealing...they're all so happy getting their faces painted, fake tattoos, playing in the petting zoo, and they're all so well behaved....and the huge turnout of our gay families just swells my heart. BUT, I know these are a collection of the most with-it, collected parents you can find - people who wanted children desperately, and were willing to go through the training and paperwork required to become adoptive parents. I don't feel a *need* to become a parent, but this is a special group of families, and they remind me so well why I do the work I do. But do I need, probably not. I'm just looking through extremely rose colored glasses today at work.
yes, I have those moments about some kids being appealing. I have sort of a "foster daughter", a little girl where I used to live, her family is very poor...she is the sweetest, kindest kid I've ever known. She latched on to me and her mother tells me that "S" calls me her second mom. Next year I'm taking her to my job for "take your kid to work day". (her parents asked me if I would) She is the child of two custodians, one who's now on disability (father has a pacemaker). Mother works third shift so she doesn't want to take "S" to work with her.

I took her to McDonalds for breakfast one day and she used the bathroom and then washed her hands and then, get this:

She dried her hands with the paper towels, then she took another paper towel and proceeded to wipe up all the spots she had left on everything. I was flabbergasted. The kid was eight years old.

"S" is the most well behaved kid I have ever been around. And I can tolerate her, for a day or so. Then she can go back to her parents. It's kids like that that "almost" make me think having a kid wouldn't be that bad...until I think about how much time I would have to lose from work!

But, even a kid like that, um, yes, in small amounts it's cool, but sorry. She's still a kid with the kid emotions and the kid problems and I wouldn't trade being dependent on a partner and having a child, for being independent.

"s" can come and spend the night with me from time to time, that'll be fine.

Turbo, I'd love to take the day off tomorrow, but I heard something. Seems that, now that I'm going on light duty for a week, I get to go work in the refrigeration department! Which sounds to me like a great opportunity! Seriously, it's way better than the work I've been doing up to now, which is really boring. I'm getting the opportunity to learn about really sophisticated refrigeration systems. :D So this tubal has really been a blessing. I'm looking forward to tomorrow. I think it might be taking my career in a different direction. A good one.
Yesterday, I read an article about British soul singer Beverley Knight, in which she said she didn't think she could combine children and her (very successful) career. She said 'not being a mum isn't the worst thing in the world, but being a rubbish mum is.' I like that.

Congrats on the tubal and speedy recovery treehugger!
Congrats treehugger! How exciting-I hope you're making it through work ok today. Thanks so much for letting us take a peek into your life for a bit.
*Hugs for Treehugger to get well soon*

I am the oldest of four and I was diapering, feeding and raising kids by the age of eight. I wanted kids back when I was thirteen then after that my womb started screeming in horror at the prospect of having kids. By the time I was sixteen I had raised three kids. Having to deal with all that crap made me understand what a bad parent I would be.
I overheard some commercial by Johnson & Johnson this morning. It had some parent, a guy I think, yapping about the amazing amount of love you feel for your new child, like nothing you've ever felt before, and yada yada yada.

I thought, oh I get it, it's some sort hormonal thing that apparently wears off because by the time the baby is age 2, most guys are happy to get the hell out of the house and away from the kid and the mom. Thus went my cynical thinking.

I've heard this same line for years. Haven't we all? In fact, my friend who has a new baby has been telling me about the hormonal effects and how "everything we think about now is for HER". She isn't icky about it, she's almost mystified by her own reactions so I listen and try to comprehend.

And you know what? Even if I'm missing the greatest feeling of love ever in the known universe, I'm ok with that.
I'd be more into the "greatest feeling of love ever in the known universe" if it didn't also poop, scream, and need my constant attention:-) I think I'd rather sleep than experience that kind of love.

Seriously though, sometimes I do worry that having a baby IS this amazing spiritual experience and that if I had a baby I'd feel so whole and complete. Sick, right? I worry about missing out on that.
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