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caroline, i speak from experience when i tell you that the boys in the suburbs are all horrendously boring and wont ever leave the town they grew up in.
Katiebelle, must agree with you on that. My last boy was from the suburbs, and never wanted to leave. Hence the breakup.
sooo it appears to me that the cool boys dont even live on this planet!!! whatever, they must be out there somewhere just not anywhere we are:(

i have to say, after a year of being single (and i know this isnt a long time at all) i am feeling frustrated with my life in general. its like i dont even know where to begin meeting guys and part of me doesnt even want to put the effort in to meeting guys for anything other than hooking up (and all that requires is going to a bar with friends). the guy i want doesnt like me back in that way, and really its for the better bc i dont think that would end well at all. the guy i broke up with bc of the guy i like now loves me to death and really be the perfect boyfriend/husband....i am just not sure hes perfect for me, yet i dont see myself ultimately with anyone else. or perhaps, as i already said, i am just too lazy to go looking. mostly cause i dont even know where to look. whatever. i shouldnt bitch, i just feel so, i guess the word is, unsatisfied right now.
I'm not really sure why I'm posting here - I'd like someone to snuggle with now and again but I don't want the bother and drama of a relationship, LOL. I guess that means I need a dog or a cat...if only my complex allowed pets! *shakes fist*

I'm shy and I'm an introvert who hates the party/bar scene. I've been a club once and was flattered when a guy asked me to dance...but I just didn't like the experience. Would probably hate hooking up and stuff, so that's out of the question. I have been in one relationship, which was long-term - I met the guy in college since he was friends with someone down the hall. Otherwise I don't have a clue where to meet guys, LOL.

But I don't really feel like bothering to look, really. I feel like I have so much more things to do on my own rather than looking for a relationship, soo...*shrug*
yeah i dont know. i love hooking up, and basically thats what i do in the mean time with certain guys, and of course thats fun, but i never like them for anything more and basically find them annoying once we leave the bedroom lol.
Oy, I've been in Vancouver for three months now, and nada. Zilch. Basically if you don't like clubs and bars then you're left high and dry.
Okay, I hear you. The cute ones are always wierd. It's because they've been treated differently for their entire lives. They can't be normal. Plus, if they know they're cute (and which one doesn't?) combined with the differential treatment makes for someone who feels more entitiled which is unattractive to begin with.
Well, from the other side, I don't think there are any single, childfree women in my area either. Is it unrealistic to expect there to be women in the 24-29 range who are single and childfree?
I am so. Frustrated.

I don’t know why it’s so unrealistic to expect that by my mid-twenties, I will have had at least ONE, or even JUST one relationship. I’ve never had a boyfriend. I’ve dated countless guys, each of them once or twice, and then nothing. I’ve tried setups, blind dates, online dating, meeting people in bars, singles’ mixers, and even speed dating. I’m not trying to get married here, but honestly! What is so wrong with me that no one wants to date me?!

I’m so tired of being the tag-along. I’m sick of hearing people’s happy sappy love stories. I’m tired of explaning, ad naseum, that I don’t have a partner. I’m so fucking sick of being the ‘wacky single one’ that all my coupled friends “live vicariously through”. This is NOT fun anymore.

I give up. I’m not even buying anti-aging moisturizer, and I fucking give up. Obviously I’m some kind of social pariah, unattractive and undesirable to all, so to hell with it.
anna k
I feel for you Emtee. I've never had a boyfriend, and I wouldn't know how to deal with a relationship. I've dated guys and usually found them more interesting as friends than as lovers. I would like to have all the romantic hand-holding sweetie-pie stuff, but I never felt strongly enough about anyone. I tell myself that sex and dating isn't important, but I do long for emotional connections and feeling a longing and interest in someone besides a passing fancy. I'd love to become close to a guy so I could soften my nature and feel less hard-edged and less of a solitary creature.

I have had a couple of longtermers but now I've been single for about nine months I reckon it's about time I got out there again.The thing is,is that it's just really easy to be hard on yourself but I had no idea that finding a great guy was this hard.I've tried internet dating and that just sucks my self esteme right out the window.
I write songs and paint,I love animals and vote left wing ect ect.What I have found however is that if I put more domesticly inclined things on my profile (for net dating) and not be too interesting I get more replies.I did a seudo profile and it was unbelievable the ammount of replies I got!
Sad but true,especially since I'm a feminist.
Datagirl, did you do two separate profiles and get the responses or did you change the original one?
I only changed my original profile.
I made it sound more girly and giggly ect ect.
I've changed it now though so hopefully the responses I get are from genuine lefty/indie guys!!Not
a baby yearning for his mama!!! lol. Wish me luck!

I live in Sydney as well and Spring is in the air.I would really love to spend the warm evenings with a
beautiful man. cool.gif (sigh)
I've only been single for like 2 months, but I just miss going out on dates. It seems whenever I'm single for long periods of time, I see couples everywhere!!

Data, how are the profiles working? I haven't gotten much like from Yahoo personals yet, but I'll keep you posted.

And I'm sick of being almost thirty, and everyone going "So, sassy, when are you going to get married??" Bleh.

I just feel utterly depressed. My bitchy sister all most of my friends from college (gay, bi and straight) are all in relationships.

Sorry for the rant.
"Fuck fish in the sea. There's plenty of penis right out there on the streets". :-p

Some psychic said once something that is true: He'll come when you least expect it. And this is true. Haven't you girls noticed that when you stop thinking about wanting a man, BAM, there he appears? It's amazing how that works. The psychic(Sylvia Browne...I'm not sure about her real psychic abilities but she's very wise sometimes) says that men are more psychic than they think they are, and somehow they get this "signal" of getting away from desperate girls laugh.gif
dani, thanks for that informative post. very interesting stuff to think about there.
has anyone read "he's just not that into you"? in the book, it says if a guy gives you his #, he's basically expecting you to do the work and call him and it means he's just not know. does anyone else have an opinion here? oh, btw, when i say that he gives a girl his #, i am also implying that he didn't ask for hers.
Cloverbee, just got down reading that book. It's pretty good. Pretty common advice, but it was told with a lot of humor.

Ugh. I just found out that one of my exs is getting marrried. I found out from a friend of a friend. This guy was an asshole, but I'm still really fucking bummed. sad.gif

Just got an email from ex saying he wasn't married.... fuck....

well, i guess i have to admit i am a frustrated single. tried to pretend i was happy being single, but, i would like a relationship. not forever really, but at least to have something in the works with a man would be nice.

emtee~amen. i agree with everything you said. from the 3rd wheel comment on down. what is more frustrating is having one of my good friend turn into bridezilla...i just want to scream, "be lucky you have a man willing to pay the crazy ass money you want to spend on a money!" but, i don't.

dani~i agree with you about the whole love thing will happen when you are not looking. i was looking in all of the wrong places and content without any prospects when my last guy walked in. which poses a question in here...does anyone buy into the whole "fate" thing with romance? just curious.

cloverbee~i'm convinced those self-help/dating books are signs of the devil. really. make women feel bad about themselves for the choices they've made. there is someone for everyone. there is no cookbook. speaking of the whole phone number thing....i am skeptical of the whole guy giving you his phone number, especially on a business card...happened with last guy...seemed too smooth for me...similar to the whole comment in the "he's not into you" book...but, then i had another guy do the same thing....he said, "i would like to talk with you. may i give you my phone number and you can decided if you would like to call me?" so, another way to look at it is that the guy is making himself vulnerable to you to call him....he's letting you know he's interested and giving you the control to make the decision how you want things to be....i think it really depends on the guy and the vibe you are gettin' from doesn't hurt to try to call never know where things can go...

getting back to the whole dating thing. i'm not the serial dater type. i tried the whole 'net dating thing and it wasn't really suited to my personality...too forced and contrived...more like an interview...just didn't seem natural...i miss not afraid of using the word "date"...
QUOTE(stargazer @ Sep 6 2006, 09:46 PM) *

dani~i agree with you about the whole love thing will happen when you are not looking. i was looking in all of the wrong places and content without any prospects when my last guy walked in. which poses a question in here...does anyone buy into the whole "fate" thing with romance? just curious.

You mean like in the movie "Serendipity"?? ahh i love that movie, so depressing. I hope that that is true!
yeah, i love that movie too. my great grandfather believed it was a "fated coincidence" that he met my great grandmother. talk about a contradiction. when i talk about fate...i guess that people come into our lives for a reason. like i remember with my ex....i saw her at school and thought she was cute...had a little crush on her...months down the road, we ended up working together, became friends, and then dated for a couple of years...if that helps to explain it...

maybe i am just a hopeless romantic...

no wonder i'm a frustrated single!
anna k
I've given myself a moratorium on dating. Usually when I date I either don't see the guys again or they end up as casual friends. Dating can feel like a job interview and not spontaneous or as comfortable as getting to know someone over a period of time and developing a crush on them, which is what I miss. I had that when I attended school, but now I go to a commuter school, live in a hotel, and intern at a magazine. I move around so much that I don't get to develop any relationships with anyone, so everyone is an interchangeable stranger to me. I like someone when I have an emotional connection to them rather than an instant physical attraction to them. It sucks when I can't enjoy casual sex because the person doesn't turn me on enough, but when I know a guy well and like him, I can become very attracted and interested in him. It doesn't seem like it's going to happen now because my life is very transitory right now, but I would like to develop relationships in the future and be able to give my all to someone who I care about and who is deserving of me.
Love Serendity. Hell, love any John Cusack movie for that matter.

Found out x wasn't married, but it dating people. I have a date this weekend, but I'm really not very interested in him.

May have to take a break from dating for a while.
I'm trying to remain positive here- but when my mother tries to feed me that "when you stop looking is when you meet someone" line, my answer is always the same.

I want to know, what's so scary about a little desperation, anyway? Not all of us get psycho because we haven't gotten laid in a while. Is everyone but me willing to date anybody just because we're "desperate"? I don't feel like I'd move too fast with someone I was dating just because I had a little desperation going on initially... I don't know. This has been annoying me, and I'm sorry if this doesn't make any sense.

/end rant.

Not having had a relationship for a long time is equated with desperation too. I haven't had a relationship for a long time. Now you'll think that I'm not neccessarily desperate. For some people three months is a long time. But what would you think if I said that it's been over ten years? I suppose that's a fact to keep secret for a while. Would it put pressure on a new love...?
flanker~i don't think there's anything wrong with dating. i know some people who would date/hookup very often and along the way found someone. i guess my only concern is that you're not using the person you're dating to avoid being alone, that you truly value the person in front of you even if you don't know how you feel about the person. as long as you're ok with how things are, then i wouldn't care what anyone else thinks.

hcbeck~10 years? wow. everyone has their reason for not being in a relationship for some time. just be honest with the next person. maybe you were busy with some things in your life. or, you just weren't looking for a relationship. there are tons of reasons. if you don't judge yourself, then no one will judge you. plus, if the person does judge, then it is not who you are meant to be's that simple.

the more i talk to people who are in relationships and ask about their stories...the more i know there is not a blueprint to falling in love and being in a relationship. love knows no boundaries. and those self help books are really corrupt. i really despise that section. i'm just trying to have some patience with things. but, still frustrated to be single. ugh. i guess that's why i'm in this thread.
hcbeck, i can see that. some people are not serial daters. i've only had one long-term, and other relationships come in about 2-3 year incriments. i'm okay with that, that's how i roll.

but others don't get that. one of my friends, who is married and should know better, always asks me if i'm seeing anyone. i'm thinking, "ok, i've known you since kindergarden, and even though time and distance has diluted our friendship, you should by now that the answer is probably no; i'm not like you."
I don't think I'm desperate. And, I'm not willing at this point of my life to date just any asshole that comes along. I'm just lonely. I mean I really don't want a relationship at this point, but I don't want to be a serial dater either. Most of my long term relationships have lasted 2-3 years, as that is how I roll.

A friend of mine (who I think wants to date me, but that's another story) told me that I should be alone for a while, because I'm probably not ready to give myself completely (in the relationship sense) to that person. I can't figure out if he's right or not.

Then again, I just don't want to be using someone either to fight off my loneliness....

And most self help books are shit, but I really liked the he's not into you one. I really got over dealing with other relationships (family ones). Most of it was simple advice, but I liked it.

sassygrrl~i agree that alone time is good. especially if you are unsure what you want. that is how i feel. like i want a relationship, but at the same time, i'm not gonna settle on just anyone. at the age of 30, obviously, i'm in no hurry to settle down yet.

i really miss courtship. just talking with someone, really, and getting to know him. that would be nice. enjoying someone with no expectations or end result.

i don't know if anyone has read the book "quirkyalone." i highly recommend it for the frustrated singles out there.
Star, yeah I'm approaching 30 in Feb. Not neccessary going thru a mid life crisis yet, but I like you don't just want to settle. That's one good piece of advice that my mother taught me about relationships. Hell, she met my father and told him one their like 3rd date that she didn't want to get married at all. Little did they know, 6 months later.... and 36 years next week.... meeting on a blind date of all places... heh.

I also miss courtship as well. I think it's almost dead in this culture. Even though my relationship with my ex fiancee didn't work out, at least he tried to court me in the beginning. It was a welcome change.

I've heard about that book. I'll have to see if I can find a copy. Thanks!

Got a blind date today actually....

mmmm, seem to be some commonalities here...

I am in a similar predicament, not wanting to settle down (but should) and also would like to have one of those unplanned, unforeseen opportunities come along where you meet someone nice. And over a period of time, the chats, little uneasy feelings and held eye-contact moments start making you miss that person when they are not there, yet there is no rush to move onwards.....
As a guy it is also kinda whacky when you find yourself doing things for that someone, that under different circumstances, you might not make the effort..

Agreed on the courtship thing, the culture here (actually more culture exists in a bowl of yogurt) is defo the 'fast-love' thing....what's the damn rush already?? It's not a race dammit! dry.gif
I hear you guys on the not wanting to settle down thing. I'm approaching 29 and really can't imagine myself making a marriage commitment at this point. I'm sure I'd feel a little different if that "right person" came along. Kalevra, why do you say you "should" settle down? Just curious.

One of my good friends just got engaged (to someone I think is very wrong for her, but that's another story) and right before he proposed she told me how she felt all this pressure to get married. I still have no idea who she felt this pressure from, since she's just the second in our group of friends to get engaged, unless she was getting pressure from her parents. Luckily, my family is not the type to lay on pressure like that.
Kalevra real pressure from outside, but have just considered the obvious....lets say I meet "The One" tomorrow, we marry in a year, and kids will no doubt be a requirement somewhere along the line...give or take a few years..(unless I get into a ready-made family tongue.gif ) and suddenly I am 40....when kids are 20, I am 60.....mmm, not ideal.

Anyway, I don't dwell on things that 'might be'

As far as your friend is concerned, if it is family pressurising (you have to hate when the ones closest to you are the ones crushing your spirit) there should an opporunity to tell them to back off....but if the pressure is coming from the beau, he should UNDERSTAND when something is not right. communication is a key element.

And of course, I am an expert at all this dry.gif
i am 24 so what i would like to know is: what exactly is "courtship". i mean, i actually dont even have a concept.
anna k
I would think dating casually and not expecting kissing to go right into sex.
Kalevra has replied to this question presented by Katiebelle......anyone mind if I have a go...?
I'd like to hear a male perspective on that one...feel free. I'm wondering if people think courtship still exists?
I wonder that too. It seems so outdated nowadays. But, damn. I miss it!! Kal, your opinion is welcome luvie.

yeah i am just confused as to what it entails. i do have to say that i dont want it back if it involved stuff that men feel they need to do to get women to sleep with them but dont enjoy doing. you know, along the same lines as sappy anniversary cards and stuff like that. i dont want to generalize bc i know all mena rent like that, but i rather just be real about stuff then have a guy feel he *needs* to do it as opposed to wanting to. i am also not sappy, but thats just me.

Kal, go for the description since you seem to have something in mind. perhaps it would make more sense coming from a guy since thats what we are talking about here anyway.
I would want it back if the men actually enjoyed the act of it. Like take for instance, the bullshit that is Valentine's day. But, like getting flowers or a cool card for no reason at all would be cool. Or just taking things slow. Am I making any sense? I'm not sappy either (the reason I hate VDAY so much is that's it's so damn close to my bday... and men have always pulled that joint gift bs at me).

Courtship……not easy to explain in so much as there are many contexts in which it is used. In matters of the heart, it has always been the place of a man, to win his ‘maiden’ over, to WOO her and ultimately gain her affection. Not an easy task, I can tell you.

In some instances, the courtship is a formal affair, for instances, the Indian/Hindu way to marriage is through an arrangement between two sets of parents. The decision is made (financial obligations settled, yuck!) and only then does courtship proceed, and it is by the book! pre-conceived step-by-step! 65% of my colleagues are in arranged marriages, although I CANNOT even bear to think of it as an option, discussions with them have lead me to alter my stance on the viability of the idea. I still think it is un-natural though. dry.gif

Courtship – The Little House on the Prairie version:
In normal terms (to Western beliefs that is), a man might be required to ‘impress’ his lady, and she in turn, must be impressed by him! This task is made difficult by the simple fact that humans have little sub-conscious games; that all day long, get played out between each other. The most common of these games is the acceptance/rejection game. And this game is not only played between the opposing sexes, we play it on our sexual brethren (eep sisters, sisters, I meant sisters….! Whew) This game is played in everyday life take business for example, accept a person in your office, reject his product as unnecessary; accept business offer, then reject it until your price is right etc etc, you get the picture..
Ok, so now a man approaches a girl with the intention of getting to know her better (he likes her, her beauty and attention draw him in), she accepts his initial advance, but then has to reject him lightly (not wanting to appear too keen, or god-forbid –EASY). So he goes off again, but he now has something of hers, INTEREST and of course her phone number, so he will call her! He does so and asks her on a date, she accepts his offer, but rejects the idea of Thursday evening, says Friday would be better (making sure it is done on her terms). He arrives with flowers, he knows girls love flowers, but these are special flowers, he so needs her to like HIS flowers. And they go off on a date…..the talk is nervous, but reassuring, she is warming to him, but again needs to know how dedicated he is, will he be a good partner & provider, so at the end of the night when he leans in for the kiss on the doorstep, she turns away, but does come back to give him a ‘peck’ on the cheek ( he now knows she is responsive to his advances, but wants him to take it slower). And so days, and weeks pass, and eventually mutual respect, admiration and in a few cases, adoration take over, she succumbs to his advances because she now knows him, trusts him and feels like spending time with him, and they live happily ever after…in love, forever! rolleyes.gif

Courtship – The Modern Version. (Please excuse me if it seems a little crass, but this is where it is headed, methinks)

Get her smashed up ( Frozen Margherita’s work well for this I am told) give her some bullsh*t speech about being a helicopter pilot/lion-tamer/dolphin trainer….Hey Presto

We all still like the former, right?
kalevra~that was lovely.

there is definitely an emphasis on getting to know the "person." more respect to their humanness and being comfortable with some tension in getting to know a woman. more mystery to the person which draws you near and makes you want to be closer to them. really a commitment to "dating" someone. people do not use the word "date" anymore. "hanging out" has replaced "dating", which seems so informal. uh, if you can't use the word "date," then i question how you will handle intimacy all together.

i definitely agree with acts of affections (flowers/cards/mixtapes) as nice gestures of caring. especially when they are unexpected and not demanded...a true sign of a giving person.

ack. i miss this courtship thing.

today i was identifying with the story taming of the shrew...too many opinions about relationships...i told a friend i feel sorry for the man who wants to date me...i will definitely be a challenge...all of my fears with intimacy and trust issues with men will be tested...i never said i was for the weak at heart...

oh, and listening to aimee mann's bachlorette no. 2 cd and magnolia soundtrack really speaks to my frustrated singleness....
bella coola
Even at my tender age, I have had the pleasure of being 'courted'. A couple of times, both happened fairly similarly.

I think that it comes down to RESPECT. Sing it Arethra. Both fellas were accepting, even appreciative of my 'pace'. And appreciative of ME! I wasn't just another girl. They courted me to get to know me (for me), and of course the libidos were raging but they never rushed me. Not even a little bit. Within a month or so I 'scared them off', I think maybe because they're used to the modern version of dating. But it was worth it, being smitten is effen priceless.

So courtship still exists for sure, in my opinion. It's a rare jewel, so keep your eyes peeled! That's one thing about internet dating. In some cases, it is reviving shivalry - writing letters. Sure they're typed rather than written, but it's still extended correspondence that the person writes him/herself. I've recieved some fairly fantastic emails from fellas... keep the faith, sistahs! (and brothas)!
eh-see, it doesnt appeal to me in the least. too over the top fake and romantic and blahhhh. so staged. i dont want flowers, bring me beer! courtship to me=playing games, and i rather not even remotely get into that. you want to just have sex, then fine lets leave it at that. you like me more then that, then tell me and we can deal with that from there. no accepting and rejecting and impressing me. i've made up my mind within the first hour of knowing you if i want to date you or not, and within the first 5 min whether i would sleep with you or not.

i guess its a nice idea. to each their own i suppose
bella coola
Well maybe there's two types of courtship. Because what I experienced was quite honest, I can see that still looking back. The respect outweighed desire or something, you know?

There was a 'frog' that gave me 'please don't dump me flowers', they sure didn't work. So I think I get where you're coming from KB, and I don't appreciate phony game playing either.
yeah i could totally see that bella. i just feel that most of the time, its too affected. but i agree there are definitly times where its sincere.
I think it also comes down to respect. I just miss it. Every one is so wanting to fuck everyone now adays, (not that there's anything wrong with sex), but I just miss it.

Boy I'm seeing now is sort of doing it right. Even sending me cute little emails, which is really sweet.
Hello! Thought I'd pop in since I'm experiencing the whole 'courtship' right now..
I agree with Bella that some guys really ARE sincere and respectful, and have more intentions in mind than just getting laid. That said, I do tend to be 'easy' when it comes to certain cocky guys that just bluntly talk me up and try and bed me. (not all guys mind you but the ones that are really good at it).

This may sound sad, but it seems easier to sleep with someone first and then 'date', cuz if the sex was good you can look foward to doing it again, but if it was bad then you can shrug the thing off as a one-night stand.

With this courtship thing, you get to know the guy/go slow, but theres the whole looming question of "will he be good in bed?". Maybe I'm paranoid cuz I have been through this senario with a guy who was really nice, funny, took me on dates...but when we got around to having sex, it was awful! Then I had to give him the hint that I wasn't interested anymore without totally destroying his ego.

Of course on the other side, I have been a long term relationship that started out with sex/no courtship, and I began to really resent him. It was as if since I was so easy in the beginning, he felt like he never had to do any romantic gestures, which after a while I started to want (yes, I can be a sucker for flowers).

Ugg, I sound so high-maintainence! Sorry if this didnt help the discussion any! Just a bit of stream-of-conscience typing here...

I find it weird too. Like I really want to sleep with McCrush, but I don't want to be a super slut (this is what got me in trouble with SC boy), b/c I moved way too fast with him. We'll see. That kiss by the car last night, hot damn almighty. My knees were weak.

There's something about delayed gratification I admit, but what if the sex sucks??

I don't think that it sounds too high maintance at all.

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