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I was waiting to see if her son had dark or blonde hair to help determine if it was Jack's or Sawyer's but of course Lost script writers won't make it that easy. It was a great ending and I like that they tied it back to the fortune teller prediciton. I so often feel like things we were given as teases in earlier seasons are never referred back to.
They really seem to be going back to the beginning and not exactly tying up loose ends but at least acknowledging that they have to be tied up still... like the mentions of the smoke monster and the polar bears again. I finally feel as if some of the puzzle is coming together although I also found out it's a much bigger jigsaw than I originally thought!
snow white
wow, big duh moment for me! i didn't even know kate called him "aaron". that makes so much sense.

i want them to go back to unravelling the mysteries of the island b/c it feels like they're neglecting that part. the story is getting a little too splintered and mis-directed for me. like what about the statue with the big freakin' toes? or did i make that up myself?
Last night's episode was epic, the best I've seen in ages. More sci-fi than usual with the whole time travel thing, and the suspense at the end...!

Hasn't anyone else seen this yet?
*warning, spoiler-ish link* I came across this link to constant/Oceanic 6 theory; makes sense to me. I raised the point before about Kate, Jack, Sawyer and Hurley being the four Michael was sent for so knew the number was important somehow... Sayid we know about and whenever I thought of the 6 I thought of Sawyer, Jin and Sun as potentials and nobody else.

eta: syb, yes saw it over weekend. As above link suggests, I like the idea of the time travel/side effects only affecting those with exposure to radiation (hatch explosion) and that will not count the Oceanic 6. It would explain why Daniel has note to self about Desmond being his constant as he has experienced porolonged exposure to radiation.
I watched it. It just took me a few days. Yes, epic is the word. I really loved it. And there was some really good acting going on last night, too.
Well I just checked imdb and it looks like Harold Perrineau is coming back this season for more than just being 'listed in credits'.
Re Michael: (do not read this unless you really want it spoiled; I came across it by accident) there's talk of him being Ben's man on the boat.
I know! Supposedly we find that out in episode 8.

Regina -the voice on the sat phone- is played by Zoe Bell, the stuntwoman who plays herself in Death Proof. She rocks and I'm looking forward to seeing what she brings to the show.

Did others pick up on Charles Widmore bidding on something (the ship's log of the first mate?) belonging to the ship (can't remember its name) that is shipwrecked in the middle of the island (the one they found the dynamite on)? Also the Hanso Foundation were mentioned in the auction lot.

I read that the creators' vision for the next three seasons is to see who gets off the island and that they need to go back this season, next season is all about why they have to go back and the final season is about them going back (!) and what happens.
Okay, so this week's epi wasn't as amazing as last week's, but I still liked it. I'm resisting their 'we're really going to start telling you things now, honest' pitch though. I'm not buying it. It's like Ben with his teasing, info-withholding ways is actually the voice of the creators.

*Must. resist. Michael. spoiler...*
I didn't love this week's episode. I guess partly because I'm not a Juliet fan- but I don't love to hate her either. She's a bit boring. Though her position on the island is interesting.

The best part was when Ben was like "because you're MINE!" And she was justifiably horrified. And then he looked a little flustered and insecure. The look on his face at that moment reminded me of the actor who played younger Ben. I'm glad they found a good young actor who looked so damn much like him for that flashback, it gave us a lot more insight into his character, IMO.

The Juliet-Jack kiss didn't do much for me.

I feel like they have been telling us more this season. But when there are answers, there are always twice as many more questions.

So I'm definitely convinced now that the man in the coffin with no one at his funeral was Locke. Considering the rift that has formed between him and everyone since he basically went psycho.
snow white
QUOTE(sybarite @ Mar 11 2008, 10:58 AM) *
I'm resisting their 'we're really going to start telling you things now, honest' pitch though. I'm not buying it. It's like Ben with his teasing, info-withholding ways is actually the voice of the creators.


"The Juliet-Jack kiss didn't do much for me."-edie

ok, juliet and jack. big no-no. juliet is too mature for jack. it doesn't fit.

and i've also been windering if locke is the man in the coffin but i seriously doubt he'd leave the island...
My money is on Ben for the body in the coffin; we know he's off the island and it's likely that nobody would go to his funeral. Besides, I don't think Locke will leave and I think the remaining two of the Oceanic 6 are Sun and Jin.
QUOTE(waves_of_splendour @ May 21 2007, 12:56 PM) *
edie--I guess Nadia showed up in Locke's flashback where his dad's in trouble with the mob, too... I read about it on's recap of the Charlie episode (Doc Jensen has a theory that Nadia might be an important connection, since she's showed up a lot in flashbacks). I've been wracking my brain, but I can't come up with who she was in that flashback. Does anyone know/remember?

Sorry, but I went back to read the archives. Locke meets Nadia in an episode where he is doing a home inspection on a house she is buying. It's when his supposed "dead" father is parked across the street in a car with tinted windows.

Back to present (future??):

Are the Oceanic 6


or do Aaron and Ben not count and we have two more to go???

I know I'm late to be saying this but when Locke asks Ben what the black smoke is I was literally standing and screaming at the tv, "Just tell me what the motherfucking black smoke is so my mind can be at peace!!!!" Seriously, I just want to know what the t-rex sounding black smoke is. I could die a happy woman just knowing that. Loving this season.

My vote goes to Ben is in the coffin.

Just read online that Sun is one of the Oceanic 6.

Think I'm going to stay away from this thread. I don't think I'm helping the conversation or my own mental status. laugh.gif
I don't think that's who it is, bunny. We saw him in Sayid's episode.
I think Jacks drunken, hairy, bout to jump off the bridge, stop to save child and mother from burning car wreck happens after his visit to see Hurley, after he testifies at Kates trial and after the Sayid episode. I think the flashes from the future are happening in reverse. Check out the Timeline:Post-Island on Lostpedia. Ben/Sayid scene happens before Jack/funeral scene but are reversed in episode sequence. Does that make sense? So it could be Ben in the coffin.

I think the Oceanic 6 are Sayid, Aaron, Kate, Jack, Hurley and Sun. Two more survived the crash but supposedly died on the island. They would be Jin and Clair.

Okay, I'm leaving and not coming back. blink.gif
So we finally found out where Michael was.... I sat up and shouted 'No way!' I am a geek.

I'm becoming more impressed with this season. Another awesome episode, if typically confusing. I like epis based around Sun and Jin.

A friend of mine who was recently based in Hawaii said the cast are getting their scripts at the last minute, so even they don't know what's happening next.
Did anyone else see it this week? Ben is my favorite character, w/o question. Not that I would ever want to meet him in real life but GOD! What a wonderful bastard!

You know the he just did not think that Alex would get shot. And I loved that he called up the monster for revenge. And did you all catch the little smile when he walked away from Sayid? Priceless.
kittenb - I just watched it on It was a great episode. So is it confirmed that the Oceanic 6 are Jack, Hurley, Sayid, Aaron, Sun and Kate? Do we think there is one more? I think Sayid is my favorite character.
It was a fantastic episode; it completely blew my mind and I can't wait to see the next tomorrow (I download it after it airs in the States). So, does anybody have any thoughts on the relationship between Ben and Charles? I read something that suggested they were fallen angels blink.gif but maybe Widmore is the one banished from Paradise and trying to get back in... Or are they each others' constants and that's why they can't kill one another?

I think that Jack will need some kind of organ transplant and it will come out that Claire is his sister (I think Juliet knows?) and she'll die from that/have to stay on the island and that's why Aaron is with Kate and Jack won't see him.

eta: hee, I don't know why the smiley shows like that in amongst the spoiler box!
QUOTE(bunnyb @ May 1 2008, 06:15 PM) *

eta: hee, I don't know why the smiley shows like that in amongst the spoiler box!



I see you...
It should have been ninja smiley!

"Destiny is a fickle bitch" laugh.gif.
So I just watched the 2-hour season finale and I have so many different thoughts going on in my head. The following spoiler is in white, so those who have seen the episode can highlight to see it. HOW did they move the island? Did they move it into another dimension? Why does the island want everyone from the Oceanic 6 back? Why are all those ghosts visiting Hurley? Are they ghosts, or merely the island talking to everyone through dead people (kind of like "the first" in Buffy)? If they are talking to the ghosts of the dead, what have they discovered about this strange island? Why does John's body have to be flown back to the island? Why on earth was Micheal not able to kill himself or die at all? This show is so intriguing.

Any theories? I'd like to hear them.
First let me say that the finale was awsome. AW-SOME!

And now: I would be very impressed if Michael was still alive considering that he was face front w/the bomb. That being said, you never know with this island.
I think they moved to the island to a different dimension, one just next to ours. I think things are bleeding over to this demension which is why even the "sane" 6 (Jack, Kate) are hearing the voices. Hurley seems to be only seeing dead people, but sci-fi often uses the old superstition that people w/mental health issues can see things that non-sick people cannot see.

All of this is making me consider the possibility that they are dead and the lives they have created off the island are their heavens. Think about the book, The Lovely Bones. Maybe since the 6 don't know they are dead, they don't know they can create a better heaven. I think this is an unlikely theory, but one that keeps circling around in my head.

Things I loved about this episode:

-Desmond and Penny!!! Woot!!!
-The actor that plays Ben needs to get an Emmy for this season. Hot Damn can he act.
-Sayid rescuing Hurley.
-WAAAAAALT! coming to see Hurley. "Why are you all lying?"
I would have to agree that was an awesome finale.

I will say, I would be very disappointed if they were dead. It seems to be something that has been done before. It would be interesting, however, if it turns out that when you die, you simply pass over to another dimension. That would be way cool. That you simply become a different type of being, but you can still be material. After all, the ghosts on the island can slap and beat you up. Just a thought.
The question I forgot to ask yesterday is how the frack did Locke get off the island if the island has not returned to normal time/space?

How am I going to wait until net January???????
Just watched the finale and it was a headfuck, but an enjoyable one. I will post more once I can think.
Good question, Bunny. And now for some spoiler dialog, In addition to the how the hell did that happen factor, I was sad that they killed John Locke. He was such a cool character. I hope he comes back as a ghost or something and freaks the crap out of Ben.
Finally watched the finale last night and generally I think it was awesome. They even answered a handful of questions!

Heartrending moments for me included:When Jin was left on the boat and Sun was screaming (heart in mouth); and on the other hand, Desmond and Penny. I love their story.

And when Sawyer jumped. And Walt came back.

I'm also glad that the polar bears have finally been explained: clearly they came from wherever Ben went in his parka (is this where Penny's arctic station was too??)

How come we Jin alive in one of the flash-forwards but he dies on the boat?

Finally, my theory: I don't think the island is in a separate dimension but I think it may have a strange 'energy source' (as Dharma put it) which enables wormholes: e.g. the entry to the arctic that Ben goes through.
Jin wasn't actually alive in a flash-forward. The episode where we saw his grave was only a flashforward for Sun's story. For Jin everything was a flashback. The delivery he was running to was for some rich person his boss wanted to impress.

Oh I do love the Penny/Desmond story. So much that whatever happens next I kind of hope we never see Desmond again because I just want to think of him and Penny sailing the world forever. biggrin.gif
I hope Ben doesn't actually kill Penny! I love them both (Penny and Des, I mean).

Sybarite, do you think the energy source/wormhole thing is related to the time travel thing? I guess it must be. But I don't really understand any of it (on a logical level... which is not what this show is about, I guess).
Cheers for clearing that up kittenb! I was thinking there were two different realities, which seemed inconsistent.

Edie, I do think they're connected but that it's not time travel as such, more a time/space 'glitch' characteristic of the island. The overlap with the time travel episode with scientist Dan and Desmond is interesting too--as Dan's research into time travel/movement meant he could understand when Desmond was affected.
There's a very cool theory on Click under the heading that talks about Philosophy students and professors developing a theory. WAY cool.
I wanted to bump this and say: WOOT... Lost is back!
And it was a very satisfying return!

I am not going to write in spoiler-speak b/c, hey, you come to the thread you takes your chances.

Did anyone else make the connection that the only characters who seem to exist in both..."realities"...are Locke and Desmond? With the Islanders jumping around from time to time, it stands to reason that could bump into themselves at some point, yet, as far we know that never happened. Don't know what it means, but it means something.

I want to nominate Ben as Best Character Ever. I have a sudden urge to write a fanfiction piece where he goes up against Spike from BtVS just to see who would win. Not even sure in my own mind.

So happy to see Finnola Flannigan at the very end. I love her in everything and she is the perfect counterpoint for Ben.

I want to know when Sun is really going to release the evil within her. She is smouldering with in right now and I almost worry for Kate.

Ca't wait until next week!
kitten, what do you mean by 'both realities'? I understood that the stuff happening OFF the island is 3 years in the future - everyone who is still ON the island is 3 years in the past.
Remember, for everyone on the island Kate, Jack, Sun, Aaron, Sayid, Hurley, etc have all JUST left within the last few hours. Locke still has to get off the island himself and die so he can bring the six back three years later; that hasn't happened yet.

I figured that they were the ones moving through time and not the island. What's his name...the physics guy... said early in the episode that either the island was moving in time or they were. Because when Locke was with that other guy (i can't remember anyone's names now) and the other guy disappeared and then later when he came back to help locke with the bullet wound said "I didn't go anywhere, you did" I took that to mean that they were moving in time and not the island.

I don't think anyone would be able to run into themselves because physics dude already said they can't change the past...the reason he could talk to Desmond is because Desmond is his constant (like Penny was Desmond's constant when he was time jumping or whatever). He didn't explain why you can't change the past but I just figured it was the writers way of avoiding that whole situation of people running into themselves.

Holy cow I'm starting to get confused.
I'm just as confused, girl. dry.gif

I noticed that the woman in bed with the Dr. from the past in Dharma Initiative looked like Sun only much older. I'm most likely wrong, because no one else noticed that.

I'm thinking there are probably different time threads that people are moving in and some of the characters are just in different threads of time. Perhaps that's what happened to Claire? We never saw her die, so we don't know if she is really dead, but she was in the cabin with Jacob. Hmmm...

The most interesting twist is the fact that Ben has been told if he doesn't bring the survivors back to the island the world will end. That is what I took "than God help us all" to mean.

Didn't you love Hurley hurling the hot pocket at Ben? That's exactly what I would do if that creepy bugger popped up into my kitchen like that.

Anyone have theories about time threads, etc.?
You are not alone in thinking that about the woman in bed, musicfit. Actually, I think that was intentional casting to make us wonder who we were watching.

I described them as different realities because I couldn't think of a better way to say it. There is the reality in the rest of the world where the 6 are bumping around LA and each other as well as Ben and Locke's (possibly dead) body. These people are going through time in a linear way like the rest of us do. Then there is the reality on the island where only the Lostaways and Daniel, the redhead, and Miles are bouncing through time with no control of the bouncing. Ben does not seem to be on the island anymore. However we see Locke alive and bouncing through time and we see Desmond as he was during the time that he met Daniel (I almost wrote, " he was in the past," but who knows what really counts as past at this point rolleyes.gif .)
I thought it was Sun at first too... I think it was intentionally to mislead us but also perhaps to suggest that their baby is somebody (Sun's father, perhaps)? Who knows...

Also, how did Daniel manage to get to the frozen ship wheel/time change area? I imagine that it occurs during one of the many time shifts (where the losties and freighter geeks move and not the island).

And is Fionnula Flanagan/Miss Hawking Daniel's mother? I'm figuring she is as there is such a connection between Desmond and Daniel and Desmond and her...

Sun is scary.
So now after the last episode, I'm even more confused. Basically, they were back in 1954 and they met these others who are army guys speaking in Latin which is the same language that the others 40 years later were speaking. And I think they saw Desmond's relative (was it is son or his father?) back in 1954. It had to have been his father.

So now Locke is trying to get off the island through talking to eye-liner guy (I call him eyeliner guy because he's always wearing eye-liner) he's the guy who's really really old but looks young and keeps popping up everywhere (creepy bastard).

They are all going to go insane on that island if they don't figure something out soon.

Any thoughts?
I don't think that Richard wears guyliner. I've seen the actor in other roles and he just seems to have these thick, dark eyelashes, even on the bottom. I think it is just natural.

Who did we see that you think was Desmond's relative? I must have missed that. I did catch that it was Widmore who was being such a junior Army jerk.

I need to go back and revisit Desmond's story. I am confused.
Questions about last night's episode: Are we to assume that the lady that took Faraday to the H. bomb is his mother and that the young Charles Whitmore is his father? Why else would Whitmore finance his research.

Also, is Charlotte, Faraday's daughter? Someone mentioned that on another message board, but I hadn't thought if it.
Also, is Charlotte, Faraday's daughter?

What?! can't be. Daniel didn't say, "I love her." He said, "I am [i]in/i] love with her." That isn't how he would talk if she was his daughter. At least I hope not.
I just watched episode 3 again and I was mistaken. I thought Widmore was Desmond's son, but it wasn't, it was Widmore. Sometimes my ADHD mind gets all jumbled up and gets characters confused. I think it's because Desmond's wife is Widmore's daughter, therefore I got him confused with Desmond. Sorry if I started too much confusion.
That's what I was wondering kittenb, so he did say in love not just love. Ok, then no way can that be his daughter.
So, I still think that Daniel's mother is Mrs Hawking, especially now that we know she's in L.A. (I'm assuming Ben was still in L.A. when he went to see her).

I think perhaps that the female Other from !954, the blonde called "Ellie" who took Daniel to see the H-bomb, could be his mother at a younger age ... it lends credence to the idea that Widmore is his father, although he woudn't be conceived for another 20yrs or so. I think there's a good chance that Mrs H was on the island at some point and that's why she's tied up with it all. I'm more inclined to believe though that Charlotte is Widmore's secret child rather than Daniel, as she was born on the island and there's definitely some mystery there and Widmore is only financing Daniel's research so he can find the island (and the link of his mother with the island). Oh who knows? it's so confusing!

I loved that Desmond and Penny named their son, Charlie; I thought that was incredibly sweet.
Was there a suggestion earlier that Widmore was Daniel's father? I feel I missed something...

I was more struck by the fact that Faraday thought 1954 soldier girl 'looked like someone he once knew'. I thought by that they meant Teresa, the girl in the hospital bed who Desmond visited in Oxford...

Finnoula Flanagan does great menace btw. I'm looking forward to seeing more of her. I kind of liked an episode w/out the LA-based characters; for some reason Jack et al are annoying me a little (except for Sun lately).
Reading back, syb, I see that I misread; I was confused with the Desmond/Daniel talk...
So you think that Theresa is somehow travelling back in time to the island? I took that comment as Daniel being reminded of his mother but I can see how it could relate to Theresa too.

I was happy with this episode not concerning the Oceanic 6 too; I feel that there is too much drama with them and it was nice to bring it back to the island and that other island, Great Britain. I was happy to see lots of Sawyer and Desmond smile.gif.
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