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Sorry for the double post.

I found out yesterday that my uncle has started using drugs again. So, it is not so much that he is using drugs that upsets me. I am more upset at my mother's enabling of his behavior. My mom is a great enabler I tell you. If you needed rescuing and don't want to do the work, go to her. Seriously. So many family members have taken advantage of her. Also, I can see the manipulation which is occuring to my parents. My uncle has a long history of drug abuse and, well, my grandfather has constantly saved him. So, now he wants to avoid dealing with my grandfather and wants my mother's help. My mother is using conflict from their childhood with my grandfater as a way to understand my uncle not wanting to go to him. Um, but, he'll go to him when he needs money, right? The thing that got me is that my mother wanted us as a family to be supportive of him. Uh, no. I've told him I'll take him to a doctor's appt. if needed, but, he has to want to get help himself. He's telling my mom that he will go get help after he takes care of certain things first. Um, he said he was going to go to the doctor for his heart and anxiety after taking care of certain things first too about a couple of months ago. Has he gone? No. Has he called me to take him? No.

He needs to fall on his own. He might need getting arrested or being homeless to get a wake up call. Or, maybe he won't ever get a wakeup call. Not if we keep rescuing him and preventing the fall.

So, back to my original ire. I will support my mom emotionally, but, I will not support behaviors which I feel are enabling to his addiction. I will not continue to blame my grandparents for his choice to use drugs or to keep secrets. Rereading what I wrote below, it is so tough to break this cycle of codependency without feeling like a self centered bitch. I told my mom I did not want to be part of their discussion with my uncle. I have to respect my mother's choice on how she supports my uncle, but, I don't need to be a part of it. I also resent her trying to pull me and that I should pity him. Um, no. He's hurt others before with his behavior, just like he is doing now (stealing)...he is not getting it. Patterns anyone?

You know, I had to take myself out of the cyclone of my father's alcoholism in order to focus on me and kill the codependency beast. And even that took about 10 more years of therapy, a failed relationship, and poor dating choices for me to learn my lesson. Being back at home is like being thrown back into the pit again. I'm trying to remain centered. I think observing family members behaviors is how nobody focused on themselves. Seriously. They don't look in their backyards. My mom talked about taking a day off to take my uncle to a doctor's appt. Um, my mother has not been to the doctor for months (she's diabetic), overweight, and has had difficulty managing her blood sugar recently. But, she will take time off to take care of someone else. It just sickens me. However, I know I cannot change those people as frustrating as fuck as it is. I just have to try really hard to stay focused on me and set boundaries for myself. I'm so paranoid of continuing those patterns from my family. It scares the jeebus out of me. Sometimes, I wonder if I returned home so I can learn my own patterns, the influence of my family, and the importance of killing those patterns for myself. I can only change me.

It might make sense why I've had so many funeral dreams. They say death brings new life or transformation. At least, that's what I tell myself to feel better. But, I still feel sad. Shit, no wonder why I have a hard time letting someone take care of me. I was raised by a bunch of fuckups. Seriously.

Thanks for letting me vent. If anyone else has similar experiences, it will make me feel better. sad.gif
Star, I am sort of in the same shoes as you at the moment. Things have gotten worse at home. I'm not going to post the story here as I find it really shameful. However, the issue of your mom enabling someone else's dangerous behavior sounds really familiar to me.
You're right when you say that we can't save our familes but we do have to live with them (in your case, literally.) If we love them, we want them to be happy and not to be used and manipulated by others. And we also need to keep ourselves safe from the manipulations of these people.
I think part of my frustration is that now that I have made it clear that I don't want to be the "go-to" person in a crisis, no one calls me about anything. I express my upset about my step-sister and it gets read as, "You hate my child! I hate you too." I'm not allowed to be my own person with my own opinions if they contradict the sickness of the family. And I can't talk to anyone else in the family because I am not supposed to know what I know (and god am I sick of THAT game! "I'll tell you but I don't know if I'm supposed to so if you tell mom you know I'll get in trouble.")
I havne't even been able to tell my boyfriend what is going on because I don't want him to think less of my family than he already does, I don't want him to forbid my family from visiting, and I don't want to get into a fight about this. I also don't know if I can defend them at this point.
We, as a family, used to be so much more than we are right now. We used to have some dignity and something more than just, "I have to stick with you b/c I am stuck with you."
Star, sorry to turn your post into, "memememe." My intention was to empathise but it turned into my own vent. I do understand what you are going through, though.
(((kittenb))) I didn't find your post to be mememe. You needed to vent. I needed to hear another person's story to feel validated as well. Win win situation.

Reading your post, I was reminded how I just can't do the denial thing. Let's not even talk about how I've worked with the addiction population. But, my own therapy and personal development has represented moving from shame, guilt, and secrets towards honesty, openness, and communication. I think coupled with what you and I do for a living (as well as go to school for) it is doubly hard to put the blinders back on after we took off 'em off and threw them away. I have a really hard time when I enter a new situation when denial is a big part of the system. But, that's another story...

I think it is good that you are setting boundaries for yourself. It is hard to not feel crazy wanting to live a life differently than your family and still be accepted. I think what helped for me was that I can support my parents by I don't have to support their actions. I've made a conscious choice not to take on others problems, only because I know people are successful at getting what they want through whatever manipulative means necessary. I mean, I learned this result by my relationship with my father.

As for the Geek, can you ask him to just hear you and not try to fix anything if you need to vent about your family? Not sure what it has been like for you as a couple when handling your family. I'm sorry the situation leaves you feeling you can't talk about it with him or even to post here. But, you know my digits if you need to talk.

I've been meaning to post in here for a little while now. I have a horrible relationship with my father and it has finally gotten to the point where I just don't care anymore. I don't think I could ever cut off all contact with him, that would be impossible. And I don't think it's bad enough that I should but there are times when I really feel like I don't want anything to do with him.

I'm not really sure where to begin. I guess one of the first big issues is that he's an alcoholic. But he's a functioning alcoholic. He can hold down a job and since he has never beaten any of us (me, my brother or my mom) he thinks that there's nothing wrong. He doesn't seem to realize that he hurts us emotionally all the time. We've tried all we can in terms of the drinking. My brother once got really mad and took all of the bottles out of their hiding places and set them up in a long line in front of my parents' room to bring it out in the open. One time I smashed a few bottles and another time I poured all the alcohol down the drain. Of course he just went out and bought more. We have cried, we have screamed, we have tried talking rationally to him. I think he went to one or two AA meetings but stopped going because he said that it was "too Christian" which is bullshit because I've been to OA and I've read through the "big book" and it's not like it talks about Jesus or anything.

I know that one of the hardest parts if my dad ever wanted to become sober is his culture. My dad is Indian and every time we have a big family gathering the men just sit around and drink themselves silly. The same thing happens at weddings. My mom has often said that she feels like the only reason my dad asks her to go to weddings is so that she can be the designated driver. I've found that the Indian culture is one that takes hospitality too far. People will offer you something over and over until you finally give in. It's considered rude to go to someone's house and not eat anything. I can't imagine how hard it would be to try to avoid alcohol and have someone offer you a drink over and over again.

Anyway, that's just the beginning of our problems. My dad is also a workaholic and so he was hardly around for most of my childhood. And then even when he was home he wasn't really there. Basically he would work late, come home and get right on the phone to talk to family and friends.

Family is just a huge issue in general. My mom feels like since she's white, my dad has always been trying to make up for it by making our family behave more traditional and more Indian. It's like, while other Indian families realize that culture is evolving (albeit very slowly) my dad wants our family to be just the way it was when he grew up. And the other thing that bugs me is that it feels like he bends over backwards for the people in his family but doesn't give a shit about us. I've often said that my dad cares more about the family he was born into than the one that he created.

I guess I should explain our big blowup a couple of weekends ago. It was my grandparents' 65th anniversary so on the Saturday we were just going to have our neighbours over for a barbecue. My dad got home on Thursday night (he's been working out of town) and right away he was in a bad mood. This is what pisses me off the most. None of us had even done anything for him to be angry about but he was already really annoyed. So Friday night rolls around and my mom and I are watching a movie downstairs. At 10:30 at night he starts vacuuming which we know isn't actually about getting the house clean but rather about making a big show over how hard he works and poor him, he's vacuuming the house late at night. Nevermind that I could have done it the next day long before the company came over.

The next day my mom and I went out for a bit. When we came home I noticed that all my makeup was missing from the bathroom (his way of cleaning is to just get everything off the counter and toss it somewhere else). I looked all over for it and I couldn't find it. So I went outside and he was in the backyard and I was upstairs on the deck and I asked him "Where is all of my makeup?" At that point he yells at me, "What are you talking about?!" and so I was like "Don't yell at me" and of course he yells even louder "I'm not yelling at you, you're the one who's yelling at me!" which was total bullshit. At that point I was just thinking "fuck it, I'm not doing this" so I turned around to go back inside but for some reason (I swear it felt like I knee jerk reaction) I stuck up my middle finger. This of course led to him coming back inside and yelling at me but then he had to calm down and put on a happy face for the company coming over.

The next day I apologized and as always, he and my mom and I had a somewhat awkward talk. The difference is that this time I don't expect anything to change. He will always find something to be angry about. No matter how much or how little we all do, he is never satisfied. Things will be okay for a while and then he will have another stupid hissy fit about something that doesn't really matter.

I think this is the only part that is hard for me. For years and years I thought that he could change but he won't, he doesn't want to. He is convinced that no matter how shitty he treats us we should all bow down to him and love him unconditionally. I've had enough. I will put on a happy face. I will fake it. But I just can't let myself get hurt by him again. I've always said that if it was any other relationship that I would have left years ago. I have been hurt over and over and over by this man and I just can't do it anymore.

I don't have a ton of experience in this area, so I won't pretend I know how you can fix this, but I can tell you that alcoholism is an illness that infects every aspect of a person's identity, personality and life. There is no such thing as a "functioning alcoholic." Alcoholics are people who have turned alcohol into a person they have a relationship with, and it is an abusive relationship. You're right. You can't change him. But if you learn a bit more about alcoholism, and about your who your dad is because of it, you might find some comfort in recognizing the signs and knowing that it's not about you - it all comes down to alcohol. Your dad may refuse to go to AA meetings (and I don't blame him - they are sort of creepy with the chanting and prayers and jargon and group mentality, but their effectiveness has been proven and they do everything they do for a reason), but you can go. Or better yet, check out Al-Anon, which is specifically for family and friends of alcoholics. The more you understand him and why he behaves the way he does, the less he can hurt you. You may not like what you hear, but at least it's the truth. And it helps to have the support of other people with similar experiences.
Thanks, epi. I wasn't sure if my post belonged more in this thread or the addiction one but I guess I chose to post here because it's his alcoholism that has caused most of our family's problems. I often wonder if addiction is hereditary. My dad's addicted to alcohol, my brother is addicted to cigarettes and I'm addicted to food. I remember when I was in therapy my doctor gave me this book called "It Will Never Happen To Me" and it was all about children of alcoholics who ended up being alcoholics despite thinking that it could never happen. I often think, "Well, I'm not an alcoholic but I'm definitely an addict." I get so angry but I don't know if he's to blame.

The thing about Al-Anon (and my experiences in OA) is that sometimes I feel like it just makes things worse because you end up talking about it all the time. When I was typing out my earlier post I got so upset and depressed just thinking about my dad and his behaviour. I know that ignoring it doesn't help but if he's never going to change then what's the point of talking about it all the time?

In addition to that, the alcoholism is only one part of the overall problem. I don't know if he would be much better without the alcohol. He has become so ridiculously traditional, he expects this perfect Indian family where the wife and kids do exactly as he says without ever questioning anything. He seems to forget that his kids are half white and were born and raised in Canada. I know that a lot of children of immigrants deal with this, trying to balance their parents' expectations with being raised in a western country. And yet it's even more than that! Fuck, I'm so frustrated I feel like I could take up pages writing about him.

There are so many other things. It's like he just doesn't know us. He doesn't have a real relationship with any of us. He doesn't know anything about my likes or my dislikes. His idea of spending a nice Saturday night with my mom is sitting in front of the tv and watching Punjabi shows. He still has this idea that the man should control everything to do with the household and he completely disqualifies anything she says when it comes to big decisions. On Sunday he asked where my brother was and I said he was at band practice. My brother has had band practice every single Sunday for 9 months! I could go on but I feel like I'm completely rambling. This is just a small glimpse of my family.
CCG - I've never been to Ala-non or OA but I have been in therapy (group & private) and one thing I've noticed is that as you are going through the work there is a time period where everything seems worse than it was before you started talking about it. I compare it to getting an infection out of your body. Even when the skin over it looks okay, there is a lot of grossness underlying it that has to come out. It is only once the infection starts to clear out that progress is felt.
It sounds like you are in a pretty horrible situation. You are right that you cannot change him and he will only change when he is ready to. I have no great advice but I wish you the best.

I decided to talk to my bf about the new stuff w/my family. It felt good to get it out even though he doesn't know what to do anymore than I do. rolleyes.gif
(((cc_girl))) I think the advice epi gave you is wise. You should check out Al-anon or pick up the book Adult Children of Alcoholics Anonymous.

I'm not sure if you are writing to just vent or want feedback or both. So do what you like with my feedback. You are right to feel frustrated about your father possibly not changing. I remember in therapy when I was, oh, 23, maybe, saying that my father should just stop drinking and everything will be ok. My therapist said, "Well, you're father may never stop drinking." That was such a brutual blow to my ego and such a harsh realization of how I have no impact in my father's drinking. I am completely powerless and have no control in this situation. Fucking stung me, I tell you. But, I see it as being really profound for me to let go of that co dependent pattern and focus on myself, heal me. You are right that talking about it does not feel better. But, if you want to have a different relationship with men and others, then I think it is really important to find support about the influence of alcoholism in your life.

QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Jun 18 2009, 12:36 AM) *
He has become so ridiculously traditional, he expects this perfect Indian family where the wife and kids do exactly as he says without ever questioning anything. He seems to forget that his kids are half white and were born and raised in Canada.

My father is not an immigrant, but, he still holds true to maschismo ways of masculinity for Latino males. I fought against this type of man and my father for most of my life. I had to realize a couple of years ago that if I want my father in my life (which I do) that I have to accept him as he is. That doesn't mean I can't set boundaries for myself or let him say dumbass things. I speak up for myself. I think not speaking to me for 7 years he feels a sort of vulnerability to want to give me my space and let me come to him when I want to. Your father may never be understanding to your situation because his culture tells him as a man, he doesn't need to be. You are a child and you are there for him. Now, I NEVER agreed with that view of children. My father acted the same way your father did with me. I never felt that amount of love and affection unless he was drunk. So, yeah, I hear you wanting your father to treat you differently.

My heart really goes out to you. I felt compelled to write because I remembered being in a similar position. Chasing my father and wanting him to be the father I wanted for me. I ignored myself alot, ate to compensate with being ignored by my parents, and depressed about my life. Therapy really helped me deal with my father. I don't think I would have the relationship I have with him now if it wasn't for it, Alateen (I went as a teenager), and talking with lots of people.

Keep posting here if there are things you still need to get off our chest. Btw, sorry if my post sounded confusing, I'm dealing with terrible menstrual cramps.


ETA: Oh good kittenb! I'm glad he was able to support you. I knew he would. Btw, I should update that I think my folks are willing and understanding to let my uncle falter if he is not willing to get help. We'll see what happens. My uncle still wants to control the situation.
I think the thing about my dad is that at this point I know that he will probably never stop drinking. I think it would take an absolute miracle for him to stop drinking. When I was younger I used to try so hard to get across to him the fact that I wished he wouldn't drink. I was a teenager when it finally sunk in that if my dad were to ever stop drinking HE would have to be the person to stop. No one could force him to stop. I remember when I was 17 I got into a bad car accident (I managed to get hit by a transport truck). Of course my dad was so upset and he was crying a bit and I remember him hugging me and saying "You know what? I'm going to stop drinking." I hugged him back and smiled on the outside but on the inside I just thought, "Yeah, right."

As for the traditionalism, it just drives me crazy. Holding on to your roots is one thing but like I said, it often feels like he's trying to over compensate for having a white wife and mixed kids. Obviously I'm a feminist so it drives me crazy when we have family gatherings and the women are in the kitchen all fucking day while the men are outside drinking and the younger guys are goofing around. I'm not the kind of woman who is just going to stand there quietly and cook just because I have a vagina.

And there's just so much more than that. I don't know if other cultures are like this but there is so much secrecy and it's always over the dumbest things. Like, when one of my cousins got married it was to a guy that she had met at university but my dad kept insisting that it was an arranged marriage and everyone tried to let on that it was for the sake of appearances. And then another cousin of mine got engaged to a guy who was not Indian and her dad put up this big show about how horrible it was and how he didn't want her to get married. In reality he actually liked her fiance and was totally fine with it but he had to put on the show lest anyone think that he would willfully let his daughter marry a non Indian.

It's just all so fucking ridiculous. Another thing is that these problems don't just exist in my family. My dad's older brother (the uncle mentioned above) has pretty much isolated himself through his actions. He thinks that he's the smartest person in the world and since he was the first born son he was treated like a god for most of his life. He has 4 children and only 1 of them has a decent relationship with him. 1 out of 4. It's pathetic. And it bugs me even more that he puts on such a front and my dad actually eats it up and tries to be more like him.

Sorry for rambling so much. It's just good to get it off my chest. However, I think I might be making myself more angry just by thinking about it, hence my original plan to just start ignoring all the stupidity of this family.

This might sound weird but sometimes I think that my horrible relationship with my dad is the universe's way of balancing out my great relationship with my mom. I guess I should be thankful to have her as my mom.

(((kitten))) sometimes it's good just to get it out and talk without trying to find a solution.
Hello again. I feel unsure of whether I should be posting this here or in another thread. The alcohol thread seems to be more for busties who have their own issues with alcohol thread and the "addiciton: someone you love has one" seems to be more for people whose loved ones are into drugs.

I just had a really long cry. I couldn't get my dad out of my head. I don't know why I'm thinking about him so much. Maybe it's because I know that next week he's going to be picking me up and we're driving back home together. 4 or more hours in a car with just my dad. I don't even know what to say to him. I'm almost tempted to try to use it as an opportunity to talk to him but I don't think that it would do any good considering he'll be concentrating on the road the whole time.

I know I'm going right back to my old ways of wanting him to stop drinking. I had a talk with my cousin and we were trying to figure out which comes first, stopping drinking and then working on his relationships or vice versa? I'm feeling convinced that we can't work on our relationship unless he stops drinking first.

Another thing I'm finding frustrating is that my dad's older brother has stopped drinking and my dad goes around telling everyone and he's just so fucking proud of him. So it's like, okay, you're so proud of your older brother but you're still doing the same stupid shit! I don't get it! That would be like me going around and telling everyone that a friend or someone has lost a lot of weight and then me eating a fucking cheesecake! If he's not going to change his own behaviour then why is he so fucking proud of his brother?

I wish I could give him an ultimatum even though I know that wouldn't work. I won't talk to you if you keep drinking. If I get married you're not invited unless you're sober. If I have kids you won't see them unless you stop drinking.

I don't know why I'm back here, wishing that I could guilt trip him into getting sober. I'm just so annoyed. I mentioned his older brother's success and I said "Maybe you could try the same thing" and he was just like "I'm getting there, I'm working on it." Bullshit. How am I even supposed to know if he's cutting down when I never knew for sure how much he was drinking in the first place?

I keep thinking that once I'm out of school and completely independent that I could just cut him out of my life but really, how the hell would that work? Go home for the holidays and talk to everyone except him? I hate him so much right now and I wish I could just pick up the phone and scream at him. He doesn't see me like this. He doesn't see me crying my eyes out because I'm so sad and frustrated. And like I said before, if he did see me like this then maybe he would stop drinking for a few days. Nothing more.
Entertainment for y'all....feel free to give me advice on how you would handle this one....or don't, and sit back and laugh...har.har.har. thanks for reading either way. rolleyes.gif

My husband's sister and brother (long story) came to stay with us for four days. I have barely been around them - because we are newlyweds and they live about 1,000 miles away.

I knew that my brother in law was a little bit of a dick - an underachiever who had a head injury in his teenage years and has amounted at age 36 to little....working a job at a local grocery store, living at home still, and never had a stay woman or any real social outlet....a gaming nerd who never leaves the home - paranoid, immature, petrified in adolescence.....totally socially uncoothed. My husband describes him as a mixture of Napolean Dynamite and Bill O'Reilly.

Well -he overstayed his welcome at my house --- quickly. First off starting to complain about where he was sleeping "can't you two afford an airconditioner?", criticizing my husband's announcement of our engagement, marriage, or wedding decisions, etc. etc. Then when I was making a huge dinner for them - he announces 25 minutes before it is completed that he "cant' wait any longer this is taking forever" and goes in and helps himself to a bagel.

I poured another cocktail and tried to shrug it off....hand shaking and sighing with my eyes bulging.

During and after dinner --- I realized that mr. sandbox boy - likes to spew his views on society, religion, and women's issues however he wants and becomes totally threatened when ANYONE so little as comments on any of his opinions. He is just accustomed to sitting there and having his family cringe and knod their heads and just wait for him to tire-out --- like a dog chasing his tail in the back yard.

I could handle this as long as I could keep shoving my penne ala vodka and vodka into my mouth...until he started on how "ridiculous 30 something women try to keep up in looks with 20 somethings....its so stupid, I mean you will never look that good so why bother." At that moment, I almost transformed into Lester Birnam in American Beauty and considered throwing my plate against the wall with a "don't interrupt me, honey." Instead I turned to my husband and gave him a look as a warning.....

"well, its kinda like this Lou, how do you feel - being 36, living at home with your grandma, and working at Publix? - I mean the male role equivalent is feeling insecure about not having status, career, and lots of money to buy a hot woman, right? so that must suck, huh?"

As my appalachian grandma would say "it got so quiet - you coulda heard a mouse piss on cotton in there."

I then looked at my husband with a face that begged him to intervene or suffer consequences.....
he did a "gee what time is it - its getting late, I have to get up for work at 4am - so we kinda gotta start winding this up and get ready for bed...." to which the man responded -" I dont' go to bed for several hours."

And then when I spoke to hubby alone - I got "we are desensitized to him...thats just Lou...thats how he is....just ignore him."

I expect now and I am prepared to be labeled as the notorious bitch who offends people because I wont' swallow a family legacy of apathy towards his disrespectful, irritating, immature, insensitive, the brother-in-law and anyone he talks to....

I really hate dealing with family. There is nothing in life that triggers me more than feeling like I am expected to fake smile and suck-up peoples' rude comments just because "that is how they are" and because "they are family" and you SHOULD do that.

Screw it. I would rather die alone.
ccgirl, I wanted to share that my father is also an alcoholic (he denies it). My dad has never really been there for me, he loves me, but I blame a lot of our poverty as a child on him and his drinking. The thing is he has a job, works way more than 40 hours a week, but as soon as he gets home he drinks one beer after another after another. I only mention the job because in his mind he doesn't have a problem. My mom says that's all he drinks, and some days he'll drink a dozen beers. I am at the point in my life (after at least 20 years of being aware of the problem) that I know he will never change. We don't really talk and when we do he doesn't really listen to what I'm saying, so I don't bother. Last weekend me, Twin DM and Mom DM were talking, and I mentioned how when me and my sister were about 10 years old she told my grandfather that my dad was an alcoholic. If you think about it that's really sad that a child that young would recognize that about her father. I know star and others have already mentioned this book, but I did find Adult Children of Alcoholics to be very helpful for me when I was going to therapy. I just wanted you to know that I understand your frustrations.
anna k
I hate it when my sister stays over. She is immature, annoying, self-righteous, and can say such ignorant shit, like calling things "ghetto" or "gay," cleaning my apartment when I didn't ask her, fussing over things, claiming to be open-minded but racist against anyone foreign she finds ugly or weird, and is just a pill to be around. I heard her talking to a friend saying how she felt a compulsion to clean the apartment my brother and I share, and it pissed me off. I called her out on it, and she got really defensive, starting with "First of all," which is number-one in defensive "not me" b.s., and treating me as if I was yelling and overreacting, and when I said she was a guest in our home, she snapped that since our parents help us with the place, she wasn't a guest, it was hers too, and I told her that I pay the bills and keep things clean (she doesn't live here, she just visits every other weekend while she attended a school program). I just couldn't stand her acting so childish and not having a reasonable argument.

She is a real twit, complains that nothing good is on TV when she wouldn't bother herself to watch anything educational or intelligent on PBS or the History Channel, has little class, and is not a very likable person, with dumbass friends (with the exception of one who worked her ass off to be successful). I heard her on the phone saying how she worries about me when I date guys, and I wanted to snap at her that I can handle myself, and have a much healthier attitude towards dating/sex than she does (she just basically fucked up a potential fling by expecting the guy to be her immediate boyfriend and sabotaged it). Sometimes I hate that we're sisters, because she's not always fun to be around, can have a stank attitude, is homophobic (like calling someone "gay" with a disgusted look on her face, mentioning someone being gay even if has nothing to do with the conversation, like "My boss, who is gay, . . ."). Blech, this is what I have to put up with.

Now I'm just pissed at her for being a bitch but can't snap at her or else she'll get defensive and bitchy and I don't feel like dealing with that, since it comes out of her immaturity and insecurities.

Souldancer, you are awesome for saying that. I hate those nasty pieces of shit who aren't any better than the rest of humanity yet piss on other people, like women or poor people or fat people or people of different races. And I hate having to accept my dad's assiness because he will never change. Or that no matter much therapy my sister has been through, she can still be a self-involved, narrow-minded, immature bitch at age 28.

I'm pretty cheesed off & cannot decide what to do. All of my legal stuff wound down last week. When I asked the banker about my safety deposit box, I found out my stupid fucking aunt had pretty much cleaned me out (My mother put her on the acct, but not me) without mentioning a word to me. Now I know that things were split into thirds with each daughter getting a piece. Apparently, my aunt felt she deserved my mother's slice of the pie as well & I do NOT know why. I AM THE SOLE HEIR & SHE HAD NO FUCKING RIGHT. She didn't have a key, because I have both, so I am assuming they made her one. My gut wants to call her & rip her a new fucking asshole over this, but my brain says to just let her have it & never talk to her again. BUT there were papers & such in the bottom of the box that I didn't go through the one time I looked into it. For all I know I'm getting fucked out of something that is rightfully mine. My auntie is mentally disabled & her husband is very smart, wily, & quite frankly comes from criminal stock. Like, his nephew & BIL fully intended to burgle their home while they were away at a wedding type criminal stock. I know I should just let them keep it, but it just pisses me off because they have been trying to horn in on my business ever since my mom died & this time they finally succeeded.
QUOTE(anna k @ Jul 25 2009, 09:50 PM) *
Souldancer, you are awesome for saying that. I hate those nasty pieces of shit who aren't any better than the rest of humanity yet piss on other people, like women or poor people or fat people or people of different races. And I hate having to accept my dad's assiness because he will never change. Or that no matter much therapy my sister has been through, she can still be a self-involved, narrow-minded, immature bitch at age 28.

ugh. My boyfriend doesn't like visiting my family becuase my brother is very similar. It's really frustrating, because we visit his family all the time and I love them to death, but when it comes to my family, we we see them less than half as often because its just too much work being around my brother. It's so weird, he dominates the conversation and does the same thing, trumpeting his opinions about the world despite the fact that he still lives at home and doesn't have the maturity to look for a real job or find a girlfriend his own age. And my parents just shut up and let him talk, so that there's basically no conversation except him talking. When I interrupt, he just talks louder, and if I point out his rudeness or try to contradict his craziness, I get lectured by my parents for being intolerant of his "problems."

AP, that really sucks. It's also really irresponsible (and also illegal?) for the bank to have given someone else your key, maybe you can at least get some compensation from them? Or maybe you can consult a lawyer to see if they can do anything for you without having to deal with your family yourself. I mean, if they stole from you and the bank can confirm that, you have a pretty good case. Hmph, the worst thing about family like that is how much you're willing to give up just to not have to deal with them.
(((AP))) Ugh. I'm so sorry dude. sad.gif
oh my god AP that is horrible. I agree with Angie..
Well, like I said she was on the account. I wasn't living here when the acct was set up & my mom wasn't all that tight with her bf yet, so my auntie it was. Technically she didn't steal in the legal sense, I couldn't access the box without her until everything got wrapped up. But in the, "Hey, that's not really yours to take because it's technically mine" sense she did. Just because she had access to it, didn't make it hers. Her family has already tried to steal from me once before, the only reason they didn't succeed is that I make more money than they do & could actually afford a decent lawyer.
Hmph, the worst thing about family like that is how much you're willing to give up just to not have to deal with them.

Goodness does that statement just wrap up almost everything this thread is about. blink.gif

AP - that sucks. Did the aunt have any legal right to get into the box or did the bank totally screw up?
Anna - One nice thing about my family is that none of them can criticise me for not being clean enough. However, one time my best friend's father visited and the first thing the dad did was bleach the entire kitchen. He then threw the bleach towels into the laundry with Jason's regular towels thus destroying the whole load.
Souldancer - that is awsome. wink.gif

{{{designermedusa, ccg}}}
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Aug 1 2009, 02:18 PM) *
Well, like I said she was on the account. I wasn't living here when the acct was set up & my mom wasn't all that tight with her bf yet, so my auntie it was. Technically she didn't steal in the legal sense, I couldn't access the box without her until everything got wrapped up.

Ooh I see now. damn. Lawyers will give free legal advice if you call their office (at least they are required by to law do it in Canada, anyways) maybe you can find out if there is a way for it to legally be considered theft, or to at least force them to give you access to the documents since the account was in your name. I know you probably don't want to have to deal with it at all, but it might be an option.
AP, forgive me if I didn't read your previous posts thoroughly enough but did your mom's will say anything about the contents of the deposit box? And why is it that you couldn't access the box without her but she could do it without you? Either way, the whole situation sucks. *hugs*

I just came back to the big city after being home for about 5 days. I was thisclose to writing a huge ranting letter in the letters thread about my brother. He is almost 29, still lives at home, pays absolutely no room and board, comes in at all hours (sometimes as late as 7am!!), barely helps out with housework and spends all his free time either hanging out with friends or playing Halo 3.

Both of my parents at this point just say "we give up on him". If my parents said that about me I would be so depressed I would do everything in my power to show them my worth. Big brother on the other hand, just keeps rolling along doing whatever he wants.

Last Saturday my dad said, "Can one of you please vacuum the living room and foyer?" I asked my brother to do it since I was already taking care of other chores. He was like, yeah yeah, and went back downstairs to play Halo. I asked him a few more times and got the same response. Finally about 7 hours later he vacuumed. It drives me crazy! He'll do it but he takes his sweet fucking time getting around to it.

And there's just so much stupidity in what he does. Like, he'll sit around all day in his pajamas and not shower until half an hour before he has to leave for work. And then he is inevitably late and speeds off to work and complains about people driving too slow (only going 10km over the limit).

The last time I was down I asked him to take me to see Terminator 4. When we left I figured "okay, we'll get there right on time." Wrong. He suddenly turns to go over to the bank first and then also stops at Canadian Tire to pay his credit card bill. Then it started raining and he was driving like a madman and speeding down the highway. By the time I made it into the movie, despite the 15 minutes of previews, the opening credits were already rolling. Where is the common sense?!

There's more but I fear that if I keep typing I will explode.
There was no will. This all should have been cleared up a year ago, but without the appropriate paperwork, blahblahblah, probate, blahblahblah, etc it just finally wrapped up. I haven't been able to access *anything*, the only reason my aunt could access the box is that my mother put her on it so she could access it if anything happened. We went through it in a pretty cursory manner months ago when we were still in shock. The bank had to have made her a key as I have them both, which is her right, I suppose. She just didn't have any right to take *every* other thing else.

Like I said, I'm inclined just to let them keep it so I don't have to fuck with them, but I have this niggling suspicion that they have something that I should have because they'll try to use it against me in the future.

CC_G, my but what a lazy, ungrateful pill your brother sounds like!
Whatever you decide to do AP, good luck. You have every right to want what was left to you, and it is horrible for your aunt to have stolen things from you at such a difficult time. I would call to ask for legal advice to help make a decision.

Candy, my brother is the same way, only he's just 21. He isn't quite as bad (he at least pays my parents rent, even if he otherwise completely takes advantage of them and demands the sun and the moon from them on a daily basis) I hope he will grow out of it, but it sure is frustrating. I know a lot of girls who have brothers like this, I'm starting to think there must be something that causes it. I know one common factor is video games. God, he'll talk about video games as if they're real life, and think that everyone else wants to hear about it!
my parents have split up and gotten back together (the actual number of times is debated but i'm gonna say about) six times in the twenty years i've been alive. i used to hate my dad although i don't anymore, i'm just annoyed with him. my mother is a big Christian and my dad recently got "saved" although i really think this is for my mother's benefit. they don't have a specific problem in my estimation; it's mostly that my dad is clingy and won't let her go anywhere without going with her. he's not like a dangerous person; he's just a sad old fart who has really not accomplished much in life and the only thing he has is my mother, and he annoys her. she's probably going to kick him out or leave him again. i don't know.

this isn't really about them though. i really want them to get divorced. a lot. like so divorced they take their marriage certificate and burn it, and then take the ashes and burn the ashes. i have three younger siblings and this really isn't doing them any favors, this stay together for the kids nonsense. i think some people have problems you can work out, but not my mom and dad. i don't care what they do so long as they do it soon, and are fucking HAPPY.

i want to hate them sometimes but i can't. it would take up too much of my time. i spent the last two years of my life in a miserable state wondering what the hell i am going to do with my life and things are finally starting to look up for me in that direction that if i spent my time bitter and hating them that it would ruin my life. i am going to chose to be happy and functional.

i think the only real damage done to me throughout this is that i now maybe have an unrealistic expectation for my own romantic life. i just want someone who will be my best friend, and who i can love and won't be sick of the sight of in twenty years. i don't want perfect, i just want a person who's right for me and i think even that seems to be asking too much. oh god, i just want to be happy.
I really don't understand my white people. They fuck me & fuck me & fuck me 'round in circles & then they decide to confuse me to boot.

Okay. So my cousins/their wives, haven't spoken to me in more than a year because their parents are shitty & the family that is shitty together stays together (If you read down below you'll see what scumsuckers these people are). They present a unified shitty front. So a while back, one of the DIL tries to friend me on FB because I changed my settings & they could no longer keep track of me. I denied because I thought it was fucking shady & I barely know the woman. I know the middle one had a kid about a month ago because I read it in the paper, I knew when she got pregnant because I saw it online. Big whoop. So last weekend, taking a page from my mother once again, my one aunt got the other aunt to call & tell me about the new baby (After twenty minutes of her blahblahblah about how my uncle named their new cat after some pornstar I've never heard of.) because, y'know, I CARE. If they had wanted me to know, I'd have been invited to the shower? These people know I have money, they might as well try to milk as much out of me as they can, right? But no. So today I get a birth announcement. It's not signed, there is no note, I wonder why they bothered at all.

I can only speak from what you've posted... but yes, from what you describe it makes utter sense that you don't want further contact with your mother. She let you down and her behaviour hurt you. It makes sense you wouldn't want to expose yourself or your children to that.

Easier said than done, but is there anything you can do to process that (totally understandable) anger, so it doesn't stay with you?

I am glad that you seem to have forged a relationship with your father--hopefully he provides some emotional support still.

Sorry if the above is stating the obvious... For what it's worth, no one who writes as articulately and eloquently as you do can be that messed up in the head. You are awesome and you will get through this, too.
annahannahbanana - My parents split up years ago and they still are not divorced. They will never get back together, my mom is with a woman now for goodness sakes! Nice to know I am not the only person who considers buying her parents a divorce for Christmas.


rudderlesschild - It sounds too me like you are doing the right thing keeping yourself away from her. It may change in the future but at this point (and always) you have the right to decide who you welcome in your life.
QUOTE(annabananahannahmontana @ Aug 14 2009, 11:57 PM) *
i want to hate them sometimes but i can't. it would take up too much of my time. i spent the last two years of my life in a miserable state wondering what the hell i am going to do with my life and things are finally starting to look up for me in that direction that if i spent my time bitter and hating them that it would ruin my life. i am going to chose to be happy and functional.

(((annabananahannah))) It seems like your parents have made their decision how they want to live their life as confusing as it may be for you. It appears that you've realized that the only thing you can do is to choose to live the life you want for yourself. I think the fact that you've made this choice for yourself is a start in a healthy direction for you.

QUOTE(rudderlesschild @ Aug 22 2009, 01:17 AM) *
Am I a heartless, evil, ungrateful bitch to want nothing more to do with her? Am I wrong to keep my kids as far as I can from her?

Am I nuts, for real? Am I totally heartless?

(((rudder))) It is totally understandable that you are hurt by your mother's behavior over the course of your life. She has left you to put the remnants of your life which dealt on lies and abandonment. You've had to mother yourself in a sense. Unfortunately, your mother is not willing to be the mother you need to help you work through this stuff. At the same time, it must be tough to know whether you can trust her or if she will bail when the going gets tough. It makes sense for you to want some distance from her.

Not sure if this stuff will help you, but, I've gone a couple of times of not speaking with my father. At the age of 15, I was tired of my father's behavior when he was drinking (I have an alcoholic father). But, guilt set in when I was graduating from HS and so I invited him to my ceremony. I remember being 19 and spending time with him. There were so many unresolved feelings I had towards him that I remember literally seeing red, like this murderous rage, when I would be with him. Unsure where this hostility came from I got into therapy for myself. I think therapy during my 20s focused on my relationship with him. Fast forward to the age of 23, again, tired of his behavior (he wasn't drinking at this time), I just stopped talking to him. I went back and forth about contacting him, what type of relationship did I want with my father, did I need him in my life, feeling powerless in my relationship with him, wanting him to be the parent I didn't grow up with, and wanting him to take the initiative in our relationship. For some ungodly reason, I called him (I was 32 at the time) before I left for a conference. I think I felt some power in the relationship that I knew my father would not reject me or not talk with me. My father will never be the father or man I want him to be. *sigh* I think that last sentence...that was the hardest for me to accept. I really had to go through a grieving process with that one. I really had to let go with that one. I think that is why it was so easy for me to call him. My father still tries to push for a fantasy father-daughter type relationship where I spend alot of time with him. I will admit that I feel quite comfortable keeping things where they are...holidays and birthdays. I don't feel the need to try to force some type of relationship with him. As far as I am concerned, he needs to be grateful that I am even talking with him. I think this shift helped me to be grateful of the people I have in my life and my relationship with my stepdad. I was too focused on my father 'cause, well, narcissistic, demanding people will do that to you.

So, I guess I share my story with you to let you know that you are not heartless or crazy for the relationship you have with your mother. You do have the power to set boundaries and limits to whatever, if any, interaction you have with your mother. You are going through your own journey and process of your relationship with your mother. I hope this helps. (((rudder)))



Today I found out my sis has a nicotine habit that she's been keeping from me. She told me she'd never speak to me again if I told her boy friend and threw a tantrum when she realized I might tell our parents. I told our parents and I'm waiting to see what happens. I'm half tempted to tell her boyfriend so she won't speak to me for the rest of her early adulthood. The next time she will talk to me is when she has lost the know-it-all stupidity that comes with adolescence.

My mom does the same.
She did not hide me from my father... but I wish she had. (always want what we don't have, eh?) She let me and my sis grow up with an abusive alcoholic bipolar dad who would hit me (at the table, with food in my mouth! - no wonder I've had eating disorders to fill a textbook with) for the slightest breach of etiquette, like breaking the bread with one hand, etc...
My mom is a manipulative selective-memory drama queen.
My sister is a hardcore alcoholic.
Mom can't stand it when in the middle of a lecture on how we don't love her like other kids love their moms, my sis or I finally boil over and tell her, MOM, you did this and this, and it wasn't like the greatest thing to do if you want your child to LOVE you. But she is the greatest victim, always giving her own patriarchal three-generations-under-the-same-roof childhood as an example of how families should live... while I am left with a cold desolate childhood, my shoulders fossilized in a perma-duck, always expecting to be hit for nothing, like, really for nothing, just cuz. With her looking and then pouting at my dad for doing it. Pouting.
(And a bunch more stuff with my dad I don't want to get into.)

I am currently back in the Motherland for a visit, staying in mom's apartment, so this whole thing is in my face. In my throat. I have to remind myself fifty times a day: she will not be here forever, she did not know any better, she actually did me a favor because look how strong I am now; all that. But it's hard. I end up yelling at her a few times a day. She takes it better from me than from my more obviously dysfunctional sister, so it's kind of good, I feel like I'm doing my sister a favor when I "break" my mom like this. But still, I'd like to be calmer and let it go. Let my mom off the hook onthe grounds of her really not knowing better. I am going to find it hard to forgive myself if the last time I saw her I yelled at her, when I live 10 000 miles away and anything can happen, you know...
So I'm breathing deep and I am trying hard, and it's almost working.

But I feel the same, Rudderless, I get such fits of fury. I know the bitterness. Know what it's like to be (for 5 minutes only) questioning your sanity and memories because she remembers everything differently. But you know, I have come to believe that people live in parallel worlds that touch and cross but are still separate: we do experience different realities. Call it eye of the beholder, the observer effect, it's real. I don't know how it is possible, but it is. My sister's version of our childhood (we are Irish twins, I am the older one) is also a bit different from mine, different enough, and the events she places huge importance on are, to me, like, why this? This was NOT important, how about that? Or she'll claim she invented a phrase or a game that I am certain, absolutely positive that I invented myself... So, I don't know. It's all crazy, we are all more or less bearably crazy.
And it's fine to not have forgiven. I haven't completely yet. I just want to.
Good luck, everyone, with bearing and healing that crazy and beautiful scar, being human.

Look how you made me google T'Pring smile.gif
(still haven't caught up on american culture, working on it)

Yes, Rudderless, I have wondered the same about you.
And I would be feeling just like you (I often do, my sister always does) but in the last few years, my mom has sort of "done penance" by dealing with so much ugly ugly shite surrounding my sister's addiction and irresponsible and unresponsive behavior that it has kind of softened my heart for her. And I did realize she grew up so sheltered, so unprepared for a reality in which the prince who rode in on a white horse can stop liking the princess and start hurting her and the kids - that she lived in waking denial of it all, and still does... I don't know. She never made a conscious choice to be a bad mother, she was always the sheltered little girl who suddenly fell off the tower and the real world never made sense. Never. Telling myself that is my strategy for trying to forgive her.

But had she not been through hell and back with my sister's blind drunk exploits... i would be as cold as T'Pring myself, Rudderless. I promise you that.

And you know what, I'm not a fan of trying to force forgiveness on oneself... Fuck it, a little anger never hurt anyone ; ) It will come, if it will. But I wish you all the peace you can use, with all my heart:)

Okay, I just have to rant for a minute. I am so fucking annoyed with my dad!

I'm trying to figure out where to start off. Basically, my mom and I suffer from horrible allergy and sinus problems. The strange thing is, they only seem to be a big problem when we are living in our hometown. As in, literally the further I get away from my hometown, the better I feel. I no longer get the constant sniffles, the almost daily headaches or the numerous sinus infections (about 1 infection every one or two months).

It's kind of funny because people go on and on about how Toronto is so crowded and polluted and how could I possibly like it there, blah, blah, blah. But now that I live in Toronto all of my sinus and allergy problems are virtually gone. I think that in two years of living there I've had maybe one sinus infection and I hardly get any headaches at all.

This is where my dad comes in. For the past 30 years he has refused to move from our crappy hometown despite the fact that my mother suffers constantly. And any time I talk to my dad he's all "Toronto is so horrible, are you sure you want to live there?" He does it constantly and acts like it's a joke.

On Monday my mom and I arrived in my hometown. The next morning I woke up with a sinus infection! Seriously, not even 24 hours and I got sick. I'm now taking an antibiotic, nasal spray, and Advil cold and sinus daily in the hopes that the infection will die down by this weekend when my friend gets married. So today I pointed at all the meds and told my dad, "This is why I am staying in Toronto. In Toronto I don't need all this stuff. This city literally makes me sick."

And his response, "You don't need that stuff anyway." Yes, because since he doesn't suffer from sinus and allergy problems, he thinks that no one else does and no one should ever take medication. I can't believe that he is so fucking selfish that he would make my mom live here when it's obvious how sick this place makes her. And I can't believe how fucking stupid he is that he seems to think that me and my mom just love popping pills all the time.

Also, I've tried in the past to ignore sinus infections but they don't go away. All that happens is that they get worse and worse until it's unbearable.

I guess what I'm venting about is the fact that my dad has had our family live in a place that actually causes us to be sick and instead of accepting the truth, he tells us to just suck it up. And when I tell him over and over again how much better I feel (physically) in Toronto, he doesn't believe me.

(((((seven and rudderless)))))
Aw, CCG, that sucks about your Dad. I have really bad allergies too so I completely understand. Fortunately for me as well, I get them FROM my Dad and my other family members that don't have allergies (one of my sisters, both of my brothers, my stepmom, and my mother!) are all quite understanding. If you don't mind me asking, where is your hometown? I can't believe that there would be something so bad in the air that would give you a sinus infection within 24 hours of arriving there, that's awful. Is there any environmental issues surrounding the town (kind of like the Sydney Tar Ponds in Cape Breton, NS, if you've heard of them). I can definitely understand your reasoning behind wanting to stay in Toronto - I wouldn't want to stay in a place where I feel horrible either! Your Dad just might not understand the appeal of a city such as Toronto - I know a lot of people on the east coast (where I am) don't either. I just hope things all work out for you! Being pissed off at one of my family members is never my cup of tea, event though I'm in a very rant-worthy situation right now myself. But I'll save that for another time. =)
I know it sounds crazy that a place could make me so sick so easily but it's true. I understand that not everyone wants to live in a big city but it always drove me crazy that my dad didn't seem to care about the physical effect that my hometown has on me and my mom.

Anyway, I felt the need to come in here to rant about another part of my family. As I've mentioned a million times before, I'm half Indian. This weekend a very close friend of mine got married and her family is Indian. We had some wedding guests staying at our house so I offered to stay with my grandparents so that there would be extra room at the house.

Anyway, as my grandmother and I were getting ready for the reception I said that I still couldn't believe that my friend was now married and that it didn't seem real. My grandmother's response was, "Well maybe that's because it was an Indian wedding." I could not fucking believe my ears. I hate how she and my grandpa both think that they're not racist just because they let my mom marry an Indian man. They have made so many stupid thoughtless comments over the years and I'm becoming convinced that they don't think I'm Indian at all. They constantly act like anything done in the Indian tradition doesn't count or is invalid.

It only got worse at the reception (they didn't go to the wedding cause there was no way they could sit cross legged on the floor for an hour). Now I'll be the first to admit that music at Indian wedding receptions can get pretty loud. But they both sat there literally plugging their ears and grimacing. It was so embarrassing. And then they complained about how late dinner was served (it was just before 10pm). They have been to Indian weddings before. They know that dinner is always served late. That's why there was a huge array of snacks served at 7pm! And they both had snacks but apparently didn't have enough.

I just don't want to deal with them anymore. They always make stupid and rude comments and no one says anything because they are so old. But I swear if I hear one more disparaging comment about anything to do with mine and my father's culture I am going to give them an earful!
ccg, your description also makes me wonder what there is around your hometown that could contribute to bad air quality. Industrial pig farms? Toxic runoff from a mine? etc.

And I've been meaning to post for a while now about something you wrote a while back re your dad and how he treats you and your family. It just reminded me very strongly of one time when I'd got my dad to go to therapy, and he referred to his family, ie me, my sibs, and my mom, as "minutiae" in explaining that this was just the way it is, in the culture he was brought up in. I caught the therapist's eye and he said, "Did you just hear what you just said? "Minutiae"? Your family is "minutiae"?" To his credit, my dad didn't have to have it explained to him and he apologized. But that particular mindset, where your family means nothing except as an adjunct of yourself, and your priorities take precedence over theirs, hell, even the concept that they might have priorities of their own was novel and not to be taken seriously...well I just wanted you to know that you're not alone.
Thanks anarch. There's definitely a lot of pollution in my hometown as it's full of factories and it's the kind of place where you need a car to get around. There is also pollution that gets blown towards the town from the states and the atmosphere is kind of weird in that everything just hangs in the air.

Hmm, I just googled it and apparently my hometown is known as the smog capital of Canada. So I guess that explains things.

It's kind of funny how even though my dad gets on my nerves I feel like now all of my frustration is focused on my grandparents, particularly my grandmother. Do old people just get a free pass to say what they want? Honestly, has anyone else ever stood up to their grandparents?
QUOTE(anarch @ Sep 8 2009, 03:54 PM) *
But that particular mindset, where your family means nothing except as an adjunct of yourself, and your priorities take precedence over theirs, hell, even the concept that they might have priorities of their own was novel and not to be taken seriously...well I just wanted you to know that you're not alone.

Anarch, your post really helped me with thinking about my dad. My birthday is coming up and I'm not really looking to having dinner with him. Even though, it is my birthday we are celebrating, my dad is making it about himself....he has to eat by a certain time, he doesn't like to drive to far, I could drive us....shit, I told my mom that I wouldn't be surprised if my father had me pay my portion for dinner. So, these little gestures, of course, bring up issues of how my father has never taken care of me, the anger comes up, and, well, I don't really want to be around him. BUT, I know I will get over it. I think I was getting caught up in my feelings which lead me to not really planning anything for my birthday but to wallow in my own pity. Thank maude, polly asked me what I was doing for my birthday 'cause I think it helped me to get out of my head.

You know, I will drive when we go out 'cause at least I know I have an out.

Ahhhhh, that's why you want to go out drinking when I see you on Saturday! wink.gif

Y'know, CCG, I stood up to my grandad over the summer & he's barely spoken to me since (Not because he's mad, I think more he's surprised/confused). Seriously. Nary a peep. I love the old fart, but he's a goddamned bully: It's his way or no way. It fucked up his relationship with my da & in turn, fucked up my da's relationship with me. And now I am an insane control freak at times. (No?! REALLY?! Do tell!) Anyways, I stood up to him over something TINY. TINY. But I felt like if I didn't take a stand at least once about something, anything, he'd be rolling over me like a steam engine for the rest of my life. I love him, I respect him. BUT I AM NOT AFRAID OF HIM. And he knows that now.
I'm sorry you're having such a hard go with family these days, CCG! In regards to your question about old people having a free pass to say whatever they want and if anyone has ever stood up to their grandparents, I think you are kind of right about the free pass. I think it comes with being a "respect your elders" society. And since most of our elders come from a different time than we do, I think they are all very set in their ways and have very strong opinions on some subjects. For instance, I know one of my grandmother's has no ill will or prejudices against African Americans (or Canadians as it my be), but if I were to be in a relationship with a black man (I hate using that term but I'll use it for conversation), she would not agree with it because it just wasn't done in her day. I would never hold it against her but I don't agree with it myself.

Also, as for standing up to grandparents, I don't know if I've ever "stood up" to my Nana, but she's an old bird who's really hard to deal with at times, even though I totally love her. She and my mother (her daughter) do not get along at all so they regularly clash and I usually find myself dealing with the situation or the fallout afterward. I have to usually talk to my grandmother about what she's done to upset my mother and that her feelings are completely unjustified (it's a very long story to get into right now so I won't), but I find that if I do so with a very light voice that it usually works and she begins to see my side - or other sides - of things. I definitely don't talk down to her because she is still in her sound mind, but I find that that sometimes works. Just a suggestion, I guess.

I definitely understand your frustration, though, and I hope that things get better. =)
I know that when my great grandmother was alive she also was in the habit of saying offensive things. I think what bothers me the most is that my parents have been married for 31 years and my grandmother still makes rude remarks but thinks that she isn't racist or prejudiced. My dad will never say anything because in Indian culture you never ever talk back to your elders, especially in-laws, and my mom feels like it's pointless because it will just upset my grandmother and she's stuck in her ways so nothing will change anyway.

But those stupid little remarks really get to me. Like comments about how my grandparents needed to move out of their apartment building because too many Asians were moving in and "they bring in all sorts of bugs". Or about how one of my grandma's friends moved out of Mississauga because there were "too many turbans in that place". And yes, my dad's people wear turbans. I think it's really hypocritical to act one way in front of some Indians but then make totally disparaging blanket statements about them later on.
Ugh, CCG, that sounds like such a shitty situation. My grandmother is really hard to deal with too (as I mentioned before) so I can kind of relate to your "pain". Why are old people so hard to deal with sometimes? My other grandmother is the sweetest lady anyone will ever meet so it's awesome but when you have someone as ornery and crazy as my crazy grandmother it's really hard to deal with, especially when my mother takes all of the crap she deals with with the woman out on me. *sighs*

I'm having some pretty annoying family issues this week as well. My sister is getting married two weeks from tomorrow and I am one of her bridesmaids and she's turned into a total bridezilla. I work in a really good office in my city that is usually really awesome for time off. I was planning on taking the Thursday and Friday off before the wedding to get there early for it but it turns out I can't because of a staff development day we are having on Friday of that week. My boss said I can't miss it and denied my vacation request and I don't want to miss it because we are doing some follow up to a meeting we had before a few months ago. But anyway, when I explained this to her she freaked out and all but told me to quit my job to make sure I can get there early. I think this is pretty ridiculous. And not only that, she roped my father into it as well and had him call me to lecture me on the importance of being there early for "events" that are taking place. Keep in mind that my sister and I are 25 and 24 years old and I think it's pretty dumb that she is going through our father to figure this out.

I just don't know what to do about all of this. I want to send her an email and be like, seriously, you need to back off, but I don't want to stress her out anymore. She just keeps bothering me about it and it's getting worse. The big thing I am afraid of is that our aunt is really good friends with my boss' boss (he and my uncle were roommates in university and are pretty much best friends), and I'm afraid she will try and have her call him to convince him to let me have the time off, which would be so embarrassing. Bah. Families are so much more trouble then they are worth sometimes. I want her to have an awesome wedding but not at the expense of my job!
rogue, are you in a different city than the wedding? The way I look at it is as long as your day ends at 5 then it really shouldn't be a problem. And the wedding isn't even until the next day so what's the big deal? There's not much you can actually do the day before. I mean, on the wedding day all you need is hair and makeup and your outfit and you can't do that in advance anyway.

In this economy jobs are hard to come by and I think it's ridiculous that she would expect you to sacrifice a regular work day for a day before the wedding.
OMG, Rogue, what CCG said.
QUOTE(stargazer @ Sep 8 2009, 09:23 PM) *
Anarch, your post really helped me with thinking about my dad.

You know, I will drive when we go out 'cause at least I know I have an out.

Glad to hear that. Can't control how the people in our lives behave but there are some things we can do to protect ourselves as much as possible, eh? That's a good reminder for me too. Good luck tonight.

ccg, I've posted this link about voicing and enforcing boundaries with family before in another thread, but I figured it might come in handy for this thread too: "When you say things like this, you hurt me." Give them a specific example.They will yesbut you in return. Let them finish.Then you say, "Now that you know this hurts me, if it happens again, we will both know you are doing it on purpose."

rogue, wow. Hopefully once the wedding's over your sister will get some perspective on the ridiculousness of what she's asking of you.
Wow, it is so nice to see that I'm not being ridiculous about all this. I think she is asking way too much of me as well. I'm a bridesmaid in the wedding and I do live in a different city - I am a whole province away; a three-and-a-half hour drive. And I don't drive, so I have to take a bus to visit, which is very expensive ($120 round trip) and the trip itself is usually between 4-7 hours because the bus stops at other stops along the way. Because of all this I told her when she asked me to be in the wedding that it was a very, very bad idea. It's not like I don't want to be in the wedding, I just can't afford the travel, I thought I would have a hard time getting the time off, and I can't even afford the dress that she is having made for me. Like, she didn't go to a store to buy them, they are being handmade by a tailor in her province.

I don't think I'm being unreasonable about all this. My Dad called to tell me that I have to be there for my nail appointment on Friday morning (which I think is ridiculous; I'm a bridesmaid, they aren't going to be photographing my hands, and even so I could get a kit for French nails and do them myself the night before). I would be leaving at 5:00 that evening to drive over with my bestie, who is going to be my "date" for the wedding, on Friday night. I would be there for my hair and makeup on Saturday morning and all the other wedding day festivities.

I guess I'm just really annoyed. I hate how she always drags our father into things when she doesn't get her way. She's 24 and about to married; I think it's high time she grew up. I really kind of want to write her an e-mail or something to tell her what I think but then she'll just get mad and my stepmother (her mother) will get mad and it will be a big huge mess and I don't need to deal with that on top of all the other stress in my life, so I think I'm just going to leave it be. I might talk to my father about it though and ask him to please mind his own business (in a nice way) when she and I get into a disagreement. I don't need her pitting him against me. I am old enough to make my own decisions now and I don't need to be lectured or made to feel bad because of them.

Ugh. Sorry for the rant. She's just very, very frustrating. My boss (who is also a friend of mine who I met in uni) said that if I put in another fake vacation request she will write DENIED on it in huge red marker and give it back to me so I can scan it and e-mail it to my sister so she could maybe get the point. It's very, very tempting....
anarch, thanks. I've never thought of wording things that way. The only thing is that at this point, my grandparents are forgetting entire conversations that we have. The other thing is that if I did speak up, my grandmother would probably get very upset. For most people that's not a big deal but when my grandmother gets upset her eye pressure goes up which causes her pain and can make her vision even worse than it already is (she is legally blind and can usually only see outlines of people). It's just a shitty situation. Sometimes I want to stand up to her but then I think about the consequences that I just mentioned.

rogue, from what I've heard it often seems like younger brides can be more bridezilla-y. You definitely don't need a nail appointment and it's ridiculous that she wants you there early just for a pedicure. When it comes to nails, they are such a small detail and really if anyone is looking at nails they are going to be looking at the bride's.

If it gets really bad then maybe you should go with the fake denied vacation request. Some people just don't get it. As long as you don't miss the actual wedding then there shouldn't be a problem.
You requested the time off; you didn't get it. There's not much else you can do. She's just acting selfishly because she's stressed and feels out of control.

You're probably tempted to go off on her (I definitely would be), but I think the best thing to do is act blissfully naive. Oh, you're so disappointed you can't go early, it's such an inconvenience for you too, you wish there was a way out of it, but it's out of your hands, and doesn't that suck? Oh well, thank god you can make it to the wedding. You'll do your own nails and if there's anything else, just let me know... blah blah blah. Just play it off.

Then you won't look like a bad guy, your boss will. Especially if s/he already knows that your sister might have your aunt call. And your sister can't successfully pick a fight with you if you're "on her side."
QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Sep 12 2009, 02:00 PM) *
The only thing is that at this point, my grandparents are forgetting entire conversations that we have. The other thing is that if I did speak up, my grandmother would probably get very upset. For most people that's not a big deal but when my grandmother gets upset her eye pressure goes up which causes her pain and can make her vision even worse than it already is (she is legally blind and can usually only see outlines of people).

Ah. You're kind of in a bind then. I was going to suggest a bare-bones "Could you not say that around me?" request but if she forgets anyway, and it could still upset her and contribute to bad health issues... Sigh. Whattaya gonna do.
Ugh, I need to rant. More sister-wedding crap.

Tonight is the bachelorette party. Since I just moved into my first place all by myself this month, money is pretty tight. The wedding is next weekend. So I called my father and was like, "If you can't pay to get me over there (they live a province away and a round trip on the bus is $140 that I don't have) I won't be able to come because I need to be able to pay to come to the wedding next weekend." So my dad huffed and puffed about it, saying that they don't really have the money because of all the things they are paying for for the wedding, etc. My sister also confirmed this through texts last night and we both decided that it was just not feasible for me to come over. But she didn't tell anyone this (in true sister fashion) so all day I had people over there calling/texting me asking why I wasn't coming over, etc. And I just got off the phone with my dad and stepmother who were like, "We would have paid, we told you that", to which I responded, "Yes, but not after making me feel guilty and horrible for being poor because I am trying to straighten my life out."

I just feel like shit. My sister reamed me out for an hour online last week as soon as I got into work one morning, called me all kinds of names and basically said that I am being selfish and not giving a shit about "her day". I shut her down pretty fast; I just told her that I would block her and not speak to her again if she kept it up. I just can't take the stress anymore. I just got out of an awful relationship where I was put down and abused and everything for the past two years but she's not taking that into account. I don't like having pity-parties but after that it's going to be really hard to be in a wedding for me and I don't even know if I want to get married, but I think my feelings are justified. I just can't handle it anymore and part of me wants to tell her to step off and that I'm not coming to the wedding at all. I just don't know what to do anymore.

Bah, sorry. I just needed to spew that out somewhere. This seemed like an appropriate place. Thanks. (((Family Busties.)))
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