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thanks whitelightning, perfect analogy for me...i LOVE tetris!! smile.gif

but i see what you mean...we expect everything to fit into this easily-resolvable pattern in our lives...a problem arises, deal with it, move on to the next. it's the tv sitcom sydrome...things don't always wrap up in the half-hour slot before something new is thrown your way.

and honestly, i don't even have any real earth-shattering problems to deal with...which is why i think there's something chemical going on in my brain that makes me feel the way i do.

and yeah, the excuses are pretty abundant when it comes to exercising...maybe something like what you're doing (tai chi or yoga or something) would be good for me. focus and self-discipline in addition to a good workout sounds like a good combination...

i think you're right, candycane...exercise gets the blood and GOOD chemicals flowing!!
also, this time of year is so drab (as was just discussed a few days ago on here). we're not gearing up for any extreme weather like summer or winter...most of us are dealing with the overcast and damp, dreary days. i personally loathe this time of year. it's neither here nor there. kind of like 'taint' (i've been watching a hell of a lot of mr. show lately).

last night was unbearable, and it sort of carried over today. my boyfriend brought up some serious stuff and i totally cracked. we were up til 4am hashing stuff out and he reminded me (without placing pressure) that we decided to continue our relationship on the premise that i would be seeking therapy. which i still have yet to do, because i don't have health insurance. before that, he was bringing up $ issues and telling me "we" need to figure out how "i" am going to bring in more $$ and how he's feeling overwhelmed with me going to school and supporting the both of us (i work in the food industry on-call, so i don't bring in a whole lot but it's perfect for while i'm in school). i understand his perspective,'s too overwhelming. school, financial problems, feeling like my chest is caving in, etc.

switching gears the risk of sounding totally cruel, i was staring at people in class today and thinking, 'what the fuck are you doing? who do you think you're kidding?'. there are these super annoying women who sit in front of me and i just had this major discomfort the entire class. they're so into being students, it's laughable. they've got their laptops and hordes of highlighters (which - i think - have been proven to not help people remember anything at all) and pretty little pens and notebooks. why should i let myself get distracted by people like that? must have been my lack of sleep.

mukky, sometimes doing simple stretching can really work wonders. i do one stretch in particular that energizes me. it's a yoga thing...squat down and let your forehead touch your knees. then sort of hold the back of your heels and try to keep the insides of your elbows touching the backs of your knees. and *slowly* lift your hips up and try to straighten your legs, while keeping the insides of your elbows against the back of your knees. you'll feel the stretch pretty soon - i've never been able to get my legs totally straight. when you feel like you're done, release your arms and very slowly come up one vertebrae at a time, with your head being last. does that make sense? or did i just tell you how to puncture your lung...

lovemypugs - if it's making you miserable, just drop the class. sometimes the instructor just won't work out with how you learn or just isn't very good. in either case, you're not getting your money's worth, nor are you wisely spending your time, intellect and energy. i can understand why you don't want to tell them you're dropping it. but it doesn't make you a loser if you do end up dropping it - it means you're aware of what you're doing and participating in your learning.
"... raised to believe that you should just deal with all your feelings and problems yourself and not burden other people ..." " ...i don't want to depend on someone else to make me feel better, but i'm having a hard time figuring out how to do it myself...i definitely don't judge anybody for taking meds, but i'd rather not go that way ..."

mukky, i totally get both of those sentiments. tis why i shunned therapy/meds for so long. and now that i'm in it for the long haul, well, sometimes i still think it's a crock of shit and there's nothing wrong with me that a little exercise and a funny book can't fix.

but i'm slowly beginning to see that, if you constantly keep pushing stuff down, it'll resurface, some way, some time, in some weirdass alien form. in my case, it's panic attacks. while i'm freaking DRIVING, no less. started completely out of left field, last october. and even tho i haven't had one in a few weeks, it's the "hovering", that one could happen any minute, that's fraying every last nerve.

try not to see it as depending on someone else to make you feel better. a very wise bustie told me "therapy is like taking a class in yourself." that analogy is completely working for me. and so many lightbulbs are going off, and i'm taking stuff home to ponder, and it's all pretty good. but i just wish the meds would kick in and help tone down the anticipatory anxiety.

(((whitelightning))) it's good that you and your man can discuss this, but i do wish he was more supportive, ie: helping you get to a therapist instead of leaving you to flounder around on your own. i don't mean to sound judgmental, i don't know him or your situation ... but i do know you don't dump on someone when they're down at the bottom of the well.

(((pugs))) i admire your fortitude with your promise. but i agree with maybe considering dropping the class. it doesn't sound like it's worth the added stress.

re exercise: my yoga dvd's are helping me more than i can say (i'm a recent convert). i feel my body getting stronger. my knees don't hurt anymore. and i've used the breathing and focus techniques to help stave off panic attacks. i'm feeling really blue today, but i'm going to pop in a dvd and then force myself onto the exercise bike for at least 20 minutes ... and i know i'll feel alot better afterwards.

but, you know, what i REALLY want to do is wallow.
i haven't posted in here for awhile, but i've been lurking.

i can't remember who had the therapist who only took a certain number of sexual abuse clients. i think it is a sign of a good therapist when the therapist is able to recognize their limits and wanting to make him/herself emotionally available to their clients. not wanting to take on more than a certain number of sexual abuse clients is good self care. i know it doesn't feel that way on your end. but, the therapist is showing a good example of not taking on more than he/she can chew.

mukky~welcome to the lounge!! please make sure to stop in the newbie thread to introduce yourself to the other busties. exercise does help move endorphins in your body, which help decrease depression and improve self esteem. but, you should not rely on just exercise. also, i think everyone needs to get the western philosophy of asking for help equating with dependency. it is ok to ask for help. it is ok to get counseling. it is ok to get medication. why torment yourself when some of these tools can help you?? ask any questions you may have here.

puss~i agree with luci and GT. visit the sex threads. i also agree with the sex play without a goal. in fact, i think everyone should use the same approach to getting well from depression. don't be so hard on yourself to be feeling well by a certain time. everyone is different. the easier and more gentle you are with yourself, then i'm sure you will start seeing the results you want.

(((luci & mom))) i'm so sorry she's ill. so frustrating. please let us know how she's doing.

(((GT))) sorry about the blues. you are not a fraud. you are accepted here and have very knowledgable and helpful advice and opinions. what music can you listen to to make you smile?? or, at least, to make me smile! rolleyes.gif

(((whitelightning)) man, that just feels like alot of pressure.

(((candycane & mom))) i hope you are doing well.

(((mando))) well, you always get hugs from me!! tongue.gif you have done so much for yourself. give yourself some props. and i know you want to just wallow. BUT, you haven't (well, with a little time, here and there, but that's ok) gone back. you are moving forward. keep remembering how good you feel now!

re: ...
"the western philosophy of asking for help equating with dependency."
thanks for stressing that, stargazer. we don't live in a culture that promotes community, and it's easy to think that we're a burden on people. even in here i'll catch myself saying "sorry to unload on you all, but..." - but that's what we're all here for, right? it's even ok to vent once in a while. it's frustrating to think of ourselves as having to be these tidy little human packages, with all our emotions compartmentalized into neat stacks.

thanks again for support. in all fairness to my boyfriend, i will say that he has been 100% supportive of me for the time we've been together. i think he just has absolutely no inkling as to how depression truly paralyzes people. we're so different - he's hyperlogical and rational (but sentimental, too...) and deals with his emotions accordingly. i am often irrational and reactive, sometimes giving off no signals until i blow my top. and then i'm a wreck and need therapy. he's just tired of me not dealing with the same 5 huge problems in my life (mostly, family issues) - he thinks i'm not addressing the cause. i don't know what to do...i can't speed up any of this because - wouldn't you know it - i'm having a tetral catastrophe.
(((whitelightning))) maybe he's pushing you in a good way then? and listen, easily-overwhelmed is my middle-name. the one thing they'll stress to you in therapy is babysteps. (cliche, i know, but it's true & it works.) and focusing on easily-attained goals. maybe one goal a week. can you try something like that maybe? you'd be suprised at the sense of accomplishment - even for something seemingly minor to the outside world - it can make you feel like superwoman.

(((stargazer))) you're my inspiration, doll. cool.gif
stargazer-it wasn't really like that-i mean i'd have total respect for a therapist who knew their limits-but first of all-when i was a therapist-almost all of my clients had been sexually abused. that's just life. i can't pick and choose like that, i know it's different in a private practice. Also, i wasn't in the crisis stage, it wasn't like she was going to have to see me through years of work. she was just so clearly scared of working with me, and thought that i'd add like, triple the amount of work to her caseload, etc. AND, she was a horrible therapist-she had NO clue about sexual abuse at all. I saw her twice and realized it was a total waste of time and money. i know what you are saying, but that was totally not the case in this situation.
mandolyn - i think he has been pushing me in a good way, it's just that he's sick and tired of doing so without seeing any results. i know i've changed, but i understand it's not conveyed to those around me. last night we had another heated discussion and he stressed once again that he's "done". it's like, every time i think i'm making progress, every time i take one baby step, it's not good enough. he hates it when i use terms like "good" and "bad", but i don't understand how else to express what i'm feeling. he wants to know why i can't just be light-hearted. i simply don't have an answer.

maddy - although it's good for therapists to set their limits, i don't think she should have told you so explicitly that she can't deal with another sexual abuse case. there must have been a way for her to tell you without being so crass.
((whitelightning)) Mr.Luci is very analytical and logical too. Sometimes I just want him to yell and throw some shit through a window though; make me feel less crazy. I'm sorry it sucks so bad right now. It's so difficult to try to communicate the positive changes to someone who doesn't have this shitty disease, especially as they can't really see inside your brain, see how your thinking has changed. I have a difficult time articulating any of this to Mr.Luci because it takes me a long time to process things and I just literally don't have the words immediately. Like when he tells me to "talk to [him]," trying to be supportive, and I can't say anything.

((mandi)) my mom is okay; she wasn't having a heart attack, which was what the tests were meant to determine. She has these moments periodically and they think it's just her extremely low blood pressure. She needs to drink water, eat salt (which is no problem for her - such a salt hound) and keep moving...which pretty much are three of her main personality points. Silly ADD, uber-health conscious mom

((stargazer)) and (((lmp))) and (((maddy))) and (((mukky))) and (((candycane))) and ((((anyone I missed))))

I've ditched the volunteer gig that I worked so hard to get (eyeroll there). I realized I was only doing it because I thought I wanted to continue down this particular career path, but I don't think I want it. I'm not sure why, but I just can't work up any enthusiasm for theatre anymore. In my classic fashion, I'm doing a 180 and thinking about going back to working with plants. Unfortunately, the internship I researched (at a botanical garden) needed applications submitted over a month ago, so it's going to require ever more digging. I'd be thrilled with a job in a greenhouse, but they're a mite scarce around NYC. Maybe a florist or something.

I was toying with the idea of school - again, despite my lousy track record, but I definitely need more time to think about it. I still have a big old heaping spoonfuls of guilt and remorse for dropping out of my first undergrad. It was one of the elite women's colleges - I was even in the honors program - but I couldn't take living with the daughters of privilege. There was so much classist shit going on that I just wasn't equipped to handle, and having coasted through high school, I had no idea how to be a successful student. I still don't, really. But I also know not having a degree is going to hound me my whole life. Plus, all that feminist guilt for not working full-time and having Mr.Luci paying the rent and most of the groceries. Fuck it.

And I'm going to be volunteering at the local Housing Works thrift store (AIDS/Homelessness). I love the store I'll be working at, plus everyone who works there is around my age. Making myself interact.

And I finally called my friend's sister's recommendation for her feminist therapist. Go me. Sigh.

I've not posted in a while, but I, too, have been lurking.

First off: Yemaya, if you're reading this, I just want to say how sorry I was to read about your medical experience when you were a teenager. That's truly messed up; nobody should have to go through something like that!

Since much has been recently said about exercise, I'll add my opinion and say that I agree that it can help with depression, and it certainly won't hurt. From the time I first went on stress leave 3 weeks ago, one of the things my shrink emphasized was that I should exercise consistently. That wasn't a problem, as I was already doing that anyway: I run 3-4 times a week, and do yoga and/or Tae-Bo at least a couple of times a week. I'm sidelined right now, however, because yesterday I had a breast lump surgically removed and am not supposed to do much of any exercise for 1-2 weeks. Hopefully, I won't get totally out of shape in that time.

Mood-wise, I'm doing much better than when my meltdown first started last month. I began feeling better about two weeks ago; I think it was the Effexor kicking in. I'm scheduled to return to work one week from today, and while I'm still not loving the idea, I can at least visualize it without panicking. Now, as long as my breast biopsy is negative for cancer, I think I'll be OK.

Hugs to all, and I agree with Mando about baby steps. One of the things that make me feel overwhelmed(and, by extension, anxious and depressed) is when I feel I have too much to do in terms of obligations, etc. So I've just been doing what I can, when I can, whenever possible.

((ratgrl)) good luck with your biopsy

well, i did it again. my boyfriend left and i have no idea if he's coming back. i went hysterical and pounded my fist on the table and shrieked at him. i feel totally insulted by something he said and i'm trying to figure out if it's me being my defected self or our relationship...we were discussing our financial problems (which are very scary and severe right now) and he wanted to ask me "without me getting upset or taking it the wrong way" - not in those words, but similar to that effect - why is it that tons of people put themselves through school and work full time and that i can't do that. why is it that his 18-yr old brother can work full-time and do a full course load at school. and that i'll be able to work full time next term, when i have "easier" classes to take, right? (i'm going to be taking intermediate algebra and bio 112 - a nice respite from my hardcore anatomy and physiology classes, but nonetheless, it is still school). mind you, i'm 28, beginning a second career in nursing and worked my ASS off years ago, working full-time, part-time and taking a full courseload for a worthless BA that i pay $227/month in debt.

i asked him to repeat it because i wasn't sure where the fuck he was going with this.

i flipped out. totally lost it. in the middle of my reaction, he said "that's it. done." and left.

i feel so fucking empty and weird. i don't know what i'm going to do. i don't know if i'm cut out for school, relationships, etc. should i be posting this in "moooving on"?
whitelightning -

I can honestly see this same scenario going down in the future with me and Mr. Pugs. School came so naturally to him. He could balance working two jobs (one full and one part) and a full course load. OF COURSE his mommy did everything for him during this time. She cleaned his room, cooked all his meals, did his laundry, wiped his ass blah, blah, blah. Ever since I've been in school I've pretty much lived with Mr. Pug and had to contribute (maybe not equally) to the income and bills. Now we have a house that I take care of cause he's too busy relaxing from working so hard that he has to chill and play playstation for hours. It finally came to the point where I quit my part-time job and school and went to get a full-time job. That didn't work out (I got fired for bogus shit). So after "crying about it" (his words) for four weeks he offered to let me stay unemployed if "I'd finally pick a degree and stick with it and take a full course load and finish school". I agreed to this and said that if I was going to be going to school full time that I'd be gone from the house just as many hours as he and that he'd need to start pulling his weight around the house. Is he you ask? HELL NO!! I'm still doing all the cleaning. He continues to play playstation ALL THE TIME. I've resigned and I'm just doing the best I can. I go to school and I clean when I can. That's it. I wouldn't be surprised if he and I are in you and your bf's position in the future. I'll probably be the one to leave though. I've been very unhappy lately.
whitelighting-that sucks. he just doesn't get it. i was in a horrible period of depression lasting years, just struggling to get through each day, totally exhausted, awful. and my parents were helping me out, thankfully, but my dad says "why can't you just work 6 days a week?" i was like OMG!!!! you just don't get it!!!! i was so angry-i did'nt say anything cause of course i just felt like such a loser and wondering WHY i can't do those things that "normal" people do. i mean, yeah, some people don't have a choice and they HAVE to work even when they feel awful-but if you don't have to do that, you shouldn't. i'm sorry that happened-it's so hard when the people that say they love you so much, don't even have the first clue about what you are going through!!!

maybe you can take some time to just relax, sleep, not having him around making you feel guilty or whatever.

i know my boyfriend feels like that about me sometimes, but mostly he's just supportive and doesn't try to tell me what to do. he may drag me out to get fresh air and sunshine-like drag me to the beach in the middle of winter smile.gif but he believes me when i tell him how awful i feel, how hard it is to do things sometimes.

luci-so awesome about getting that referral!!! good step, that's awesome. it IS a big step-don't belittle it!

i'm having all these major breakthroughs and new understandings, so i'm feeling ok but really overwhelmed and l ike whoa!!!!! i'm seeing things differently and some things are kinda coming together. so yay! i guess tha'ts why i've been feeling sooo bad the last few months..stuff was brewin' in there.
thanks, everyone. he came back and spilled his guts about how done he is with our relationship. i tried to listen as best i could, but when he used the phrase "investment with no return" i couldn't help but retreat to the bathroom and *trigger alert* slice up my legs, which i've for the most part stopped doing until now. he admitted that was a harsh metaphor, and i understand his frustration of him being with someone who doesn't meet his needs. he claims i've never cracked a smile in the three years we've been together (i beg to differ...) and that i'm worse off now than when we first met (which was a shaky, transitional period in my life to begin with). so now that we finally accepted that i'm suffering from depression, he was willing to work it out provided i would seek help, which he says i haven't done. my problem is that i have no money and no health insurance, as i work on-call as a caterer. right now, help for me comes in the form of friends (who i have not been opening up to because i'm ashamed) and this message board. it's the best i can do right now.

so it was begrudgingly agreed upon that i would be the one to move out. he feels like he has more "grounds" to stay here because he gets along with our housemate/landlord, with whom i'm not as close - which is a whole other story. i asked him to give me a while to figure out a place to live and he said no - we've tried that. so i need to find a place to stay this weekend. i have a major exam coming up tuesday. i should be studying, not packing my shit, which i did at 2am last night. our other housemate gave me support last night, and does not want to see me leave.

i feel completely alone. thankfully, i'm numb.

i'll keep everyone posted, but who knows if i'll have regular internet access over the next few weeks, months. ((thank you all))

maddy, that's great about your breakthroughs. those things stay with you, regardless of your feelings.
(((whitelightning))) That's terrible, all that you're going through right now. Without knowing your boyfriend, it sounds to me like he's being pretty callous, and that he's kicking you while you're already very down. Making you move out like that so suddenly...have you been able to find a place yet? Is there anyone you know who can take you in, at least temporarily? Clearly, between your home situation and school (I know hard nursing school and its prerequsites are--I went through it all myself), you're already under a lot of pressure. I really worry about you; please keep us posted as to your living situation and how you are doing.

(((lovemypugs)))Yours sounds like a bad situation, too. It's really tough when the person you're supposed to be closest to you isn't supportive. I hope things get better for you!
pugs, i'm sorry to hear about your situation. that is *ridiculous* that he insists upon you taking a full course load and to "pick a degree". i'm sure he thinks he's helping you, but the road to hell is paved with good intentions. my advice to you would be to take a break from school and figure out what it is that you love to's stressful enough to go to college when you have a clear goal in mind, or know what you want to do with your degree, but if you're not sure or you keep changing it, that is a sign to take a breather. i hope i'm not being out of line here, and i do not want to insult mr. pugs in any way, but...does he honestly believe a college degree is necessary for development?

please excuse any insouciance on my part...i haven't slept very well. unsure.gif
I think it's crazy that anyone would be expected to work full time and take on a full course load. In my program they actually told us "If you work 40 hours a week, you will not make it" because we were always given a ton of work to do. I'm pretty lucky on that end, my parents don't insist that I have a job during the school year. They encourage me to do well in school and to have a part time job but they always say that if it negatively affects my schoolwork then they'll want me to quit and just concentrate on school.

(((all depressed busties)))
whitelighting-man i wanna come kick your boy's ass right now. how DARE he tell you to move out-he's the one that is breaking up with you-he needs to f'in leave. and when did you have this conversation about you getting help? does he realize this takes years to recover from? i'm sorry you hurt yourself, but i can understand why you did. is your name on the lease? or just his? i think he is being a first class asshole. investment with no return my ass!!!!!!!

seriously, this is bad. this guy is an ass. i'm so mad!!!! you should not have to be dealing with this on top of everything else.

do you have any friends who you could stay with for a bit? even if you are sleeping on someone's need support irl too-i think it's time to talk to your friends about what's going on.

we are here for you throughout, please keep posting.

lmp-i'm sorry things aren't good right now sad.gif that playstation thing would infuriate me! taking a full load really isn't necessarily a "good" thing. i think that for me, going to school part-time for my master's degree would have been much smarter. i think i would have learned more, instead of having to cram all this knowledge into 4 month semesters.... i'd really think about dropping that one class-i know it might feel like failure, but you are the ONLY one who can truly take care of yourself, so you gotta be the one making those decisions.

WL-also, do check out the moving on thread-i think that there are people over there right now who can really relate/understand what you are going through right now.
((everyone)) i'm going to be staying with some friends for the next couple of weeks, until i figure out where to go next.

i also quit my volunteer position because i can't deal with it right now.

i'm moving my shit as i type this.

thank you all for i said before, i'll keep you posted.

pugs - i too was a playstation widow. it sucks. i have no idea why anyone would spend 18 waking hours playing a goddamn video game.

maddy - this is going to sound like i'm making excuses, given everything you've learned about him from the posts, but he is truly a wonderful person who has given me tremendous support. he simply does not comprehend depression and the resulting fallout from it and (at least i'm telling myself this) he's trying to be analytical about it. let's face it - right now, i am an investment with no return. it's disgusting to put myself in those terms, but if that's what he's looking for - results - he's probably not going to find it in me right now because i'm trying to figure out a way to get access to therapy and meds. he was totally out of line and being a jerk...but we're both angry and tired. so why fight it...i'd rather us split up than thinking of myself as an "investment". he's struggled with that "is this relationship going to be worth it" bullshit from the getgo (i should note that his is nearly 5 years my junior).
Pugs, mr.pugs is being stupid. Just totally stupid. If you are going to school full-time and he is working full-time then housework goes 50-50. Stop any cleaning up after him that you are currently doing, including laundry. Just take care of your own shit and let him learn that adults manage to clean up after their own damn selves. Especially if they have hours of extra time to play video games.

whitelightning, before you make any motions towards moving out - who is on the lease? If your name is on that document he cannot force you out. I don't care if he's licking the landlord's ass in his free time. What kind of asshole is he? I know it hurts and hurts and hurts, but good fucking riddance. If you're not on the the lease, talk to the other housemates (if they're on the lease) and set up a time-frame for moving out with THEM, not that asshole. A weekend is unreasonable.

I am seeing red for you...and if I lived nearby I would be sorely tempted to enact some swift retribution on his ass. After setting you up in the extra room, of course.


eta-well, he's still a fucking asshole, regardless. I hope that karma bites him hard when he grows up a little and realizes that humans don't operate according to a fucking manual
I am sorry to hear about your troubles whitelightening. As the others have mentioned please continue to post and if you need to vent feel free to contact me privately.

Thank you very much maddy29 and ratgirl.

WL-yeah, i mean i know we are seeing him at his worst right now-of course he has good qualities-or you wouldn't have spent your time on him. I do think though, that kicking you out in the midst of this is just really unfair. and just plain mean, really. i'm sure he's hurting and is tired of dealing with your depression, and that's fine-i mean it's his right to end the relationship if he can't deal. me and luci are still gonna kick his butt though.....

i'm so glad you have friends that you can stay with for awhile while you rest up and get strong and recover from this brutal breakup.
QUOTE(lucizoe @ Feb 23 2007, 12:54 PM) *

well, he's still a fucking asshole, regardless. I hope that karma bites him hard when he grows up a little and realizes that humans don't operate according to a fucking manual


luci is on the button on this one. dude is an ass. lightning, i hesitate to talk about anyone's relationship cos only you and he know the details that make it up, but he knows you're going thru a hard time, so since he thinks he's got his shit in order it should be easy for him to move instead of you. (lord knows i've got curse words i could apply to him, but i will spare the thread from my sailor's mouth.)and he's even more of an ass because he couldn't give you a few days. it doesn't matter if that prick's the landlord's favorite. it's not the landlord's choice. really, you're better off without that @#$@#.

i've always hated questions that begin with an assumption that all people are the same, and that start like, "why can't you....?" and end with "so-and-so can...."

we are all different and the reason i personally can't go to school fulltime and work is cos i fucking can't. why can't we all be doctors and lawyers, artists and scientists? cos we can't. and just cos organized johnny dicklick can go thru school breathing underwater doesn't mean i can or should have to. if mr pugs can do it, bully for him, but then he has no excuse for not being able to help with housework. grrr!

pugs, i think you are keeping up your end of the bargain, but pugs is not. perhaps you should tell him if he doesn't start helping around the house the deal will be off because he hasn't been doing his part. that way it's win-win. if he helps there is less pressure on you, if he doesn't you have license to drop the class.

(((((((pugs))))))) (((((((lightning))))))

i can't thank you enough for your support. what a day...i just finished clearing out my friends' garage and i got the wood stove going and i'm sitting here typing, eating a piece of stale bread. very medieval.

i'll try to summarize as best i can: our friend recently got divorced, has a kid and is letting us rent a room in her house and basically share her house with us. we also have a friend and her baby living in an attached apartment behind the house. so it seemed like a great arrangement - no lease, all friends here. way better than our previous housing situations. over the past year, there has been some tension between me and this friend, that recently came to a head about a month ago, when i exploded at her for being generally condescending and cold to me. that is part of her personality, but she and mr. lightning get along great and have these long talks while she treats me like a stranger. which made me laugh, luci, when you mentioned the whole thing about licking our landlord's ass. at any rate, i talked this over with her and we smoothed it over.

when i blew up at her, mr. lightning was horrified and disgusted by my outburst (i can't imagine why, he's seen worse from me!) and that was when he was like, 'look, i can't go on like this, you're a mess, blah blah blah' and i told him i wanted to seek help, but can't b/c of our financial situation. he said he loves me and will support me, but that for this relationship to work, i need to seek therapy.

it's been a month, and i haven't gone for therapy. i went to a school counselor, which didn't work out and i've been trying to figure out how to get health insurance and a steady job in the meantime. aviatrix, i agree with you that he is in better financial and mental straits to move out, but his reasoning is that because he and our housemate get along great and i can't stand her anyway, so it should be me that moves out.

and you know what? screw 'em. let him live with a "happy, financially stable" person, which is what he's in need of right now. now that i won't be there to clean up after him, there might be more domestic strife in his future. my friends are telling me this is a gooooood sign that we need a break.

maddy and pugs - that's very sweet of you to do all kinds of ass-kickin'. but you're doing an even better job giving me words of encouragement! oh, and the cleaning thing. i am guilty of that's hard to let a mess develop just to teach someone a lesson, but i think that may be in order.

we are all different and the reason i personally can't go to school fulltime and work is cos i fucking can't. why can't we all be doctors and lawyers, artists and scientists? cos we can't. and just cos organized johnny dicklick can go thru school breathing underwater doesn't mean i can or should have to.

EXACTLY. and i know very well that this is his worst and he really has no idea that he essentially kicked me out at a most inopportune time. whatever. i think things will become clearer on both ends as time goes by. i'll be fine, i guess. i really don't even have time to wallow, as i have an exam on tuesday.
omg-he gave you ONE MONTH to find therapy-knowing that you had no money or health insurance? wowzah. i mean a month isn't enough time to even make a small change, much less deal with what you've got going on. geez.

i find it interesting that he laid down the law with you after you yelled at this woman, and now he wants to stay there, wtihout you. am i just paranoid or does this seem weird...especially with their long talks.....

maddy, i've actually accused them in the past of being "in love" (in a fit of rage and confusion) but it's not true at all. on paper, it all sounds very suspicious but i'm absolutely sure there's nothing going on. she's a very strong, positive person and is an excellent listener...and they both smoke, so they do end up having these long talks. she doesn't work either, so (in my opinion) she has more time on her hands to have lengthy conversations about who the hell knows what. truthfully, i've been too tired/depressed/preoccupied to be an interesting conversationalist. she's also very dominating, clear and decisive...doesn't like other women much, though. kind of tunes me out when i'm around (at least in my paranoid, insecure mind...) but is very interactive and animated with men. and i trust my (ex)boyfriend. will be interesting to see how things develop there.

as far as the whole only-a-month-to-find-therapy thing goes, it is ridiculous. talk about pressure! i truly believe our relationship was heading for this break anyway.

here's some good news: i talked to a nurse practitioner friend of mine today and we're going to get together to talk about depression and what my options would be for meds (!!!) it's a small step, but...yeah!

i went by the house today to pick up some oatmeal and stamps sad.gif i went into our room and he was half-asleep with my pillows removed from the bed. i walked back outside in the rain sobbing (very dramatic, i know...). i got back to my friends' house and collapsed in hysterics and simply couldn't remove myself from the floor. then i remembered the dog took a crap in the very same spot the previous night...

so i decided to get up and keep going. if i don't study today, whatever. gotta take care of myself. i went out and got a haircut and my friend drove me around to run some errands, get some food, send out my debt payment. the haircut really helped. and good friends really, really help. i am blessed.

i feel like i've been dominating this thread lately, and i apologize for that. but hopefully, you're all doing well. my tai chi instructor told us something that i've been thinking about lately. to forget about perfection - he noticed a lot of us in the room would beat ourselves up for not remember the moves of the form and he said we live in a world that expects perfection, which is an impossibility. he said, if you forget a move, keep going. keep doing it. your body will lead you and just let it flow. something feels insurmountable, just keep moving.

dang whitelightning, that's some crazy stuff. i'm glad you have the support of your friends, you deserve it! and no worries about "dominating" the thread-that's what it's here for.

that IS very dramatic about the rain and stuff. like you are trapped in some crappy movie and this is the montage with the sad song-the rain, the dog poo, etc. soon you'll be at the part of the movie where the sun shines again smile.gif

SO AWESOME about the nurse and the meds-this is a huge step! huge! i was so against meds for so long and it made such a huge difference for me. i mean it's not a cure or anything but it helps. and someone to talk to is excellent.

agree about the perfection-i fell into this really old perfection thing the last month or so, it was weird. awful feeling, and very unrealistic. i just keep reminding myself to breathe.
(((whitelightning))) ditto on what others have said. and i know i don't know you from adam, but somehow i intuitively feel that mrexasshat just lost out on a great investment. you have a ton of inner strength, and a great sense of humor, and patience .... this is my read, anyway. i'm very relieved to hear you've got a plan in place for therapy/meds.

(((pugs))) i can ask my kid how to erase the memory card in the fucking playstation ... perhaps THAT would get your point across?

unfair division of household chores completely bakes my beans. mad.gif

(((maddy))) so glad you're feeling better, hon.

" ... and just cos organized johnny dicklick can go thru school breathing underwater ..." lol

i wussed out on driving on the ScaryAss Parkway yesterday. but i'm not beating myself up about it. i would've had to drive my mom's car, which i'm not used to (i was going to attempt to drive up to cousin's house, she was going to drive home), plus the kid decided to come with us. it just didn't feel like the right time to experiment with the driving thing. there will be better opportunities.

i came out to my favorite s-i-l about my anxiety. turns out she's been going to a therapist for depression for over a year. we both made each other cry, in a good way. we're planning a girls night in to dish.

i too feel blessed that i have a chosen few wonderful people in my life who care and understand. including you guys. and the ones who don't care and/or don't even try to understand can go fuck themselves. under water.

yeah yeah yeah!! erase the memory card, pugs!

((mandolyn)) thank you.
heh heh, memory card smile.gif like it.

mandolyn-that is so amazing about your "coming out." I find that actually happens a lot, but we never really talk about it so we all feel so alone with it.

i'm having this weird feeling where like, i still really feel that life is stupid and pointless and not really worth living. not that i'm suicidal, but life just overall, seems kinda dumb. but now that i'm not so miserable there are actually parts of life that are fine or even good. my head is all foggy today so this makes no sense.
it does make sense, maddie, and it's very relatable. i feel exactly that way sometimes.

whitelightning, i've been reading your updates and i haven't responded because i just don't know what to're dealing with so very much. but i've been thinking about you, and rooting for you. you are amazingly strong the way you're facing up to it, despite how unimaginably difficult it must be. something feels insurmountable, just keep moving.

that's a great way to look at things. i'm so glad also that you have some support from the friend you're staying's really important in this sort of situation (and in general when you're down) to know that you're not alone, and that you're loved.

hugs to everyone on this thread.

((annelise)) thanks...i'm trying very hard to just maintain being alive and breathing and not choking on tears. but it's hard to not feel like a complete loser and also embarrassed. we both have the same friends and there's a part of me that wants everyone to scream at him and show him the errors of his ways, but i can't ask that of anybody. when i talk to my friends (who do know what a generally awesome person he is) they seem to raise an eyebrow to his behavior.

i keep going back to get random stuff, but really it's to see how he's doing. somebody stop me! every time i go back, i end up sobbing. i went back yesterday and he was there with a friend. (ex) mr. WL was trying to be nice and offered me chili to take back with me. uh, yeah. no thanks. i went back again late last night - he wasn't there. now i'm assuming all kinds of things.

so now i can't help but wonder what the hell he's telling people. according to a friend, he speaks no ill of me whatsoever.

the funny thing is, i don't really feel depressed. i think i seem to be in good spirits, but i think it's mainly because i'm in shock. kind of like when a catastrophe happens. a car barrels through your neighbor's house and everyone stands around in their bathrobes chatting with people they never spoke to before. chuckling in disbelief but exhibiting this eerie sort of calm and authority. know what i mean?

another friend who understands depression offered to help me out financially. wow.
WL you really are amazing. you probably are in shock, and that's just fine! better than sobbing constantly. your body knows how to protect itself.

that's sooo great about your friend who will help out with $$. it makes such a huge difference to have multiple sources of support. are you surprised with your friends responses? i think before you were worried about their reactions?

you are SO not a loser! depression just sucks the life out of us, literally. it's amazing that you have been hanging on so well this far. honestly, any day i don't spend at home in bed is a victory, even though i have a lot of them now...
i wanna give maddy a (((((((((maddy))))))))) just for cos.

(((((lightnin'))))) the thing that makes me stop calling/visiting/etc. is that i think of it lake a scab. if i am going to recover as quickly as possible, then i need to leave it alone. i need to think of it in terms of my own health and sanity. plus there is something in a break up that is irreversable for me. even if you get back together, it's never the same. it's all 'aftertaste,' and no 'taste'. and those flavors are always better in the imagination (if that makes sense to anyone but me). as for your friends-- they seem pretty awesome, and you definately are loved and cared for. the ones who will gravitate towards you, will and the ones that won't, won't. just be you and keep up the relationships that are important to you. i have a great friend who was friends with an ex for 10 years, now she hasn't heard from her in more than 5, and we are close. it's kinda the luck of the draw. *shrugs* you can't worry about it.

mandy~ you're awesome!
thanks, maddy. i've made a deal with myself. go to school over the next 4 days (my stomach is rumbling at the thought of it) and then later on in the week, i can wallow. friday (if i'm off from work) will be my day to stay in bed....i think. we'll see. but i forgot...i might be working sad.gif which is good for me financially, but i really want to curl up into a ball and stay there.

i can't really stay in bed all day anyway, because this garage has a wood stove that needs constant attention. so maybe it's a blessing i'm here. i spend a lot of my time monitoring the fire and maintaining composure - maybe that's better than being in a comfortable place with kleenex right now.

thanks, aviatrix...i like the scab analogy.
i'm not in a very good place right now. i just got fired from my job. i don't even know why. they told me some bullshit about 'the job being to limiting for me" like they are doing me some kind of favor. i keep telling myself i'll be ok in the morning, but i have a feeling it won't be much better. it's not a good time for this. my first wave of depression hit last week. at least then i had a job to blunt things-- to distract me. now i havent got that, and my hormones are out of whack. i haven't been taking my medicine like i should. on the ride home my bones ached. a very bad omen. usually that means it's going to be bad. i just have to remember it's going to get better.
girltrouble - i'm so sorry to hear that. it's difficult enough losing a job for whatever reason, but it must be extra frustrating to get some vague lame-ass excuse like that. do you have friends/family to support you during this time? especially if you're feeling depressed...

i was actually in a similar position about 2 years ago; can you find temp work in the meantime?
ugh GT-that sucks. so sorry to hear about your job sad.gif

i still have my job i just missed two days this week, ugh. i couldn't even summon the energy to even care to leave the house.

back a few posts i was trying to say something about how life just seems pointless and dumb and mostly about survival-i mean most of our time is spent earning money or doing things we need to do-like cooking, cleaning, transport, paying bills, etc. i feel like when i was trying ot get better, that the world would be a pretty good place. now i'm realizing that maybe this really is it.

i mean, maybe there is no big purpose for us each to be alive, maybe we are just here and we have to survive.

did that make sense?
Hey there... first time in this thread, but I wanted to say that You do make sense.... just not entirely in my opinion.... or at least I'd like to believe that there is a big purpose. I think that purpose is just what you said and is big enough.... to just live and survive is a blessing. It is what we can endure that makes us strong. It's all a convoluted mess for everyone.... and that thought brings me comfort, to be honest.

I've been struggling with mild depression for about two years now.... off and on like waves. I'm pretty thick in one now... apathetically missing work, excessive drinking, not getting to the gym (which I know helps my blues), and allowing my ex to screw my rhythm in life are the most recent observations. Feeling like everything is a damn dream. I pop the bc pill for nothing.... etc. My vibe is collecting dust... and I'm eating crap. all observations directly perpetuate my poopiness.

What I do know is that it does get better, but always be prepared for the next wane. That is life.... the wax and the wane like the moon. I find the simple things in life.... like clean pj's, chirpy birds, and string cheese bring me joy. tongue.gif I know that if I do certain things to try to make myself happy, regardless if it actually works, I feel a wee bit better that I gave it my best shot. Survival. sigh.

So here's to enduring.... I pray it gets better for all of us. I'm waiting for it. And thanks for posing that question.

i mean, maybe there is no big purpose for us each to be alive, maybe we are just here and we have to survive.

did that make sense?
yeah that makes sense, maddy. and i like that theory. it's pessimistic in a way, but i think right now it's about all the faith i can muster for this life. and i kind of needed a theory life purpose, so thank you.

i am trying to keep myself distracted. its working so far. i just don't want to think too deeply. i do have one person i can talk to, lightnin' and i talked to her yesterday, and that helped a great deal. i'm not really good at letting people in. i always feel like i am being self centered telling people what is going on in my life, or if i'm depressed. as i said i don't have much faith in things. most of the people in my life vanished when i came out or shortly after. so i just don't think people will be around, so why be vulnerable?

i'm not as mad about the job. there was funky shit going on there, and i wasn't the only one to see it. lots of the employees were talking about it.

i was thinking about going back to my former employment, but i really don't want to do that. i think it's kind of been an emotional crutch.

so i am going to send out resumes, and throw myself into my painting..... and cross my fingers.

((((((((((((((lightnin', maddy, mandy, moonpie,anne + depressed busties)))))))))))
oh, (((gt))). i'm so sorry. just what you didn't need right now. i know you feel like poo, but do try to take care of yourself better, physically. it will help. i promise.

moonpieluv, welcome. and thanks for the "string cheese" comment. it made me smile. smile.gif and you're right, it's definitely the little things that matter.

(((maddy))) come on, punkin. get back on that horse. you were doing so well.

i'm struggling today. so i just wrote a page of thoughts for my therapist. she's gonna wet her pants, she went gleefully apeshit the last time i wrote stuff down. i guess it makes her job that much easier. but i also dig how she digs how deeply i think. and here i am thinking that my overthinking is my downfall. she makes me feel like it's an asset.

ok. i know i just used the word think way too many times.

moonpieluv, i thought your post was damn beautiful. endurance, indeed.

girltrouble - sounds like an excellent idea. seems like this layoff was a blessing.

i'm beginning to shut down. i'm pretty much dealing with bare bones at this point - getting out of bed, showering, studying. i have to find a new place to stay after next week. a friend offered his basement.

i really want a home.

but things do change and i just keep thinking about the waxing and waning...
mandy-- that's what i always say, my biggest problem is overthinking. and i do it constantly, beating myself up about tiny things. my brains is my worst enemy.

i've been there, lightnin'. wanting a home. just concentrate on the next step up. you'll get there. i know you will, and you'll be stronger when you get there.
(((depressed busties)))

I have an appointment in two weeks with my recommended therapist. She called just when I was walking out the door with a new client (a five month old cairn terrier!! puppy!!! whom I get to take care of two hours a day!!) and she was really nice. She's - unfortunately - on the upper west side and my familiar stomping grounds are the east and downtown, but I think it'll be okay.

Let's see...this is number eight. Number 8! I'm 24! Urgh. My favorite one so far has got to be the Australian man who looked like an ultraskinny santa claus who neglected to use sunscreen. He wore mandals and shorts all the time and kept his two dogs in his office. Right up my alley, except I could not for the life of me understand a single word the man said. And he spoke so quickly that my Australian-to-luciEnglish translator just couldn't keep up. Oh, Dr. K, your dogs were cute.

(((girltrouble)) how fucking shitty about your job. How kind of them to bother to hire you in the first place, since you were so clearly overqualified. Nice of them to make that call for you. Asshats.

What is with this not being hired because one is OVERqualified? I'd heard it before and all that, but why? Is it because they're afraid people will leave quickly when a more challenging position comes along? 'Cause frankly, I'm one of those work-to-live folks, and I'd rather be overqualified and slack after gettin' shit done than scrambling...but no one is asking me to manage an office, so what do I know?

((mandy)) good for you! I've started carrying a notebook with me and it is getting filled up quickly, mostly with rage over how - for some reason - the death of a sexbot is more important to the mainstream media (and it's oddly-porny female reporters) than the idiot-in-charge's impending war with Iran, or any number of shit of ACTUAL consequence. Once in a while I hit on something illuminating about myself, but mostly it's just rage. Which is in itself illuminating.

Re - life as fight for survival. It's extra-hard to be a woman in this world, and I think survival takes on aspects that men who have depression never have to worry about. Not trying to say that women's depression is harder or anything...but yeah, okay, I'll say it - Women's depression is harder. It's hard enough to be taken seriously as a person, and then you add depression and it's like one more thing you need to try to get people to see past. Sometimes I feel so weighed down by all the misogyny that I want to never ever leave my apartment again.
Not trying to say that women's depression is harder or anything...but yeah, okay, I'll say it - Women's depression is harder.[i]


A very gentle - and I mean very gentle - "aarrgggh" to you! Depression is a daily wrestling match with demons and those demons do not give a rat's ass about gender!! Having gone through the personal hell that is depression has given me profound respect for other's suffering and I will not compare mine to yours by saying "mine is worse because...". Yours, mine, ours; it's all our personal bag of hammers to carry and much respect and admiration to all of you here who carry it.
mandolyn, I find that my doctor also really likes it if I write down what I'm thinking and then bring it in to her. I think it allows her to see my frame of mind at the time.

I've got an appointment with my doctor this weekend and I kind of can't wait. I've worked through most of my issues and right now my weight is like, number one on my mind. I hate how much I weigh and I'm angry at myself for even getting this big but I feel like food is almost always on my mind and I don't know what to do about it.

Sorry to hear about your job GT. I've never understood the overqualified thing either, would they rather have someone who's underqualified and doesn't know what the hell they're doing? Are we now being punished for trying to have skills and training that was supposed to help us? I don't get it.
chingus, in no way was I attempting to take a cheap shot at the entire gender. What I was saying, if you'll look at the entire paragraph, is it is already incredibly difficult to be a woman in this world, regardless of which culture or country you are from. When you add depression on top of already trying to navigate a world which ACTIVELY hates you for having a vagina (ie - patriarchy) you have a recipe for disaster.

To lurking depressive men - very sorry if I gave offense, but I'm not taking it back.
i think what luci was saying was that it is another weight to that 'bag of hammers.' that your being male mitigates. still hammers, but there is that extra bit of turbulance that you don't have to struggle against. hell i'll use my experience as a guide, do you think things would be the same if you were transgendered? black? queer? it's not that there is some sort of tranny depression that i have to deal with that you don't it's just and extra millstone with extra issues attached. same if you were handycapped. that depression might already be there, but having to cope with people's/cultural expectations/prejudices of you, and/ or your own issues/predjudices of who you are that is an extra layer of grief that you have to dig thru to get to that core depression. capisce?
i feel like a very bad person. here's what i just posted in the 'moooving on' thread (i didn't feel like typing it out again...)

well, i just ran into my ex. he said he missed having me around as a friend. i told him i was too angry to talk to him, since the whole getting kicked out thing. he said 'yeah, i wanted to talk to you about the word on the street.' according to him, he told me he would sleep on the couch for the weekend (!!!) and that when he woke up the next morning, i was gone. i heard him say he'd sleep on the couch for the *night* and when i said 'give me some time...' he read it as 'give me an indefinite amount of time.'

i'm so sad and confused right now. i could have stayed a couple more days, maybe been able to study, who knows. i got a 78 on my exam. i was freaking over the past week, basically over miscommunication??

i don't know what to think. we agreed to talk later. i still feel like he's being insensitive.

((lucizoe)) - don't let it trample you...patriarchy triumphs only if we allow it.

girltrouble - yes!
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