Apr 23 2006, 07:11 PM
when people (e.g. Roethke) bring up the fact that X statement wouldn't be tolerated if applied to a fat woman, but is tolerated when applied to thin women: I just really feel they must be feigning ignorance. I'm sorry to be harsh but it really rolls my eyes.
It is NOT the same, not even on the same scale, to say "so and so is a stick" as it is to say "so and so is a whale." The stick has the massive support of the relentless bombard of mainstream media and most of america. There aren't ads every 3 minutes, in every possible medium, telling consumers how to avoid being thin. No one asks their friends "do I look too thin in these jeans?" No one's mother warns them to stand up straight or they'll look too thin. No one is secretly snarfing cookies after gym class in an effort to avoid being thin. There are no "how not to be thin" websites and myspace groups. People do not try everything from surgery to extreme diets to exercise to accupuncture to carefully tailored clothes to colonics to faith healing to tape worms to avoid being thin. To cause real harm, anti-thin comments must first penetrate the densely woven cocoon of obsession and desirability enveloping the state of thinness. If you want to say comments about thin women offend you personally, that's totally valid, and I think people will respect that. But don't equate thin bashing and fat bashing.
I think most people who say comments about the overabundance of thinness on sites like SG are not saying there is something "wrong" with being thin (though some people don't look healthy) but there is something wrong with having a skewed representation of women, especially when you claim you are a diverse place. I've always been long and storklike, more so since becoming a distance runner. I say you're right, if you're healthy there is nothing wrong with being thin. It IS wrong to have all your media models be too thin, because all women are not thin -- not even close.
Apr 23 2006, 07:29 PM
and i forgot to add...roethke my girl, i don't mean to pick on you in particular. you're just receiving the culmination of a lot of thought on the matter. :D
Apr 25 2006, 06:24 PM
I recently read Female Chauvinist Pigs and thought I would throw my two cents in.
Personally, I found her conversations with young women to be most compelling. She shows how high school girls put a lot of effort in to being sexual, ie. looking "hot" as it is defined by the sex industry, sleeping with guys, but know very little about what actually pleases them. I thought the crux of her argument was that she sees the glorification of the raunch culture as women becoming embodiments of a particularly marketable male fantasy at the expense of exploring their sexuality on their own terms and at their own pace. I don't get the feeling that she sees anything wrong with porn per se, but more with the conditions under which it is created and propogated becasue they allow women to feel sexually empowered without actually knowing themselves and their bodies.
I agree with the book, but find suicide girls to be a bit problematic in this framework. On the one hand, it is totally just playing into the culture of women being on display, but for the models that I know, it was a way in which they were exploring their sexuality. Granted, I only know a few but they are smart, strong women who like or were curious about being naked in front of people. However, I don't know them well enough to say if it comes down to wanting sexual validation and there not being a better way for them to get it. I think that we can only answer that question by knowing the personal history and sexual/mental health of the girls involved.
Apr 25 2006, 09:54 PM
I just wrote an interesting paper on Feminism and Sex Work, and objectification, etc...I wanted to post and get feedback but I'm wary, 1, because it's a controversial topic, and 2, i think I stole some discussion points from here. :P
May 18 2006, 07:11 AM
Quote:"Yeah, as anti-porn as i am, i find the 'all porn hurts women', therefore women in the sex industry are selling out all women by participating idea a bit silly. not to mention that women in the sex industry have enough problems without feminists getting all up in their grille, too.i don't have a hell of a lot of respect for suicide girls as an institution, but i don't think the site is hurting women. i just don't think it's doing us any favors, either. As far as the women who pose, whatever. if you're getting what you're looking for, go for it"
I second that.
May 26 2006, 05:16 AM
You know, I have been reading about Courtesans during the renaissance, and the most interesting thing about these women were that being a "prostitute" actually gave them more independence and education than married women and noble women. These women were allowed to male only events, libraries, salons, etc.
May 26 2006, 01:09 PM
I have read this thread in it's entirety and no Busties that have worked in the sex industry have said their 2 cents. There's always 2 sides to every coin...
I'm not a troll but a regular to this board who would rather keep her past and privacy safe (as I write this I'm shaking and almost in tears). I've only told may secret to 4 people and that for the most part backfired on me. I'm writing all of this for the first time ever; both to unload and shed light on a very weird, twisted and sometimes empowering world.
For 6 years I worked at various points as a web girl, stripper, escort and pornstar. I went into that world out my own volition for many reasons but mainly to pay some very huge school bills and to gain knowledge and understanding of myself and my own sexuality....I could have read a book and sleep with a few people but the the bills would have remained unpaid.
Everyone who works in the sex industry goes into it for a number of reasons. Tho' everyone here has voiced their opinions very objectively it's hard to make judgements,assumptions or evn understand unless you have strapped on our big ass heels and walked or posed in them for a few hours. Girls do this for so many reasons (and yes some are forced) and under so many conditions it's hard to make an acurate assessment of this huge multifaceted billion dollar industry.
Working on the web as a chat girl (like Suicidegirls) and pornstar is a job like any other to me. Though of all things I did it was by far the worst...You are paid the least ($100-250 for web pics and "straight sex")and are expected to do the most. It's easy to get caught up in the chatting and worship from fans. But really there is a limit to how much you can take and what you are willing to do, people are alwyas trying to push you to do more go further. You can create a whole new identity for yourself, tailor made to show what you want and become the object of men and women's fantasies...At a certain point it will get to you like it did with me and other girls whom I worked with. When you do a shoot it is so unsexy! You are surrounded by lights and people telling you to turn this way and that, lift this suck this in etc, etc. Photo shoots take at the very least 1 hour and a half (make-up etc not inc) and those silly strained sex scenes we have all seen all over the web that last 10-15 min are really 2 hours+ to shoot... In some cases you have some "control" but in most you are spoken of as an object that isn't really there. I really have to say it can be surreal and yes it was sometimes fun but really at the end of the day,the hassle and time spent isn't worth it. As a web girl, I had this different identity, I felt sexy but also like I was being pulled in many directions and didn't want to tell people what I was doing because of the stigma associated to the job. The second guessing myself (physically and mentally) and reality of being on the internet made me stop.
At a certain point you have to make the decision; "go with the flow" and get caught up in the lifestyle (not good)and possibly make alot of money, seperate yourself from it (compartmentalize) and keep going...or leave and cut off all ties.
I should stop here, as I have probably said too much and stepped on alot of toes...I didn't even write about the other "jobs" I went on to do! I can say that I stopped working in the sex industry completely well over a year ago and no matter how broke or desperate I ever could become I would never go back to it. I'm lucky I got out relatively unscathed. I have my degree and paid 2 years out of my pocket, ie: no loans. I do have a different view of men, I didn't really like them too much to begin with (no I wasn't abused b4) but now I have a better understanding of how they work sexually. I would say I'm more accepting of how we as humans function on many levels. I accept my body and really have few issues (aside from the usual 10 lbs I wish I could loose) with it. The weight/burden of not telling people what I did is the hardest...I would never want to hurt my family or those who are closest to me. The people I have told (they know I stripped, 1 knew I did work on the net) were either supportive to my face and then told others or said thanks for sharing, your secret is safe please don't do it again. In the end it's my karma / conscious and secret to take to the grave. I have the occassional nightmare that scares the hell out of me, but otherwise I try and move forward.
I really think the sex industry should be regulated. It would put a stop to underage people working, give workers more rights and a voice;it would also most importantly regulate the spread of STD's. This is being done in Europe, Australia and to some extent in the States.
Sorry to have gone on for so long, I really hope I didn't ramble or offend!
May 29 2006, 02:53 PM
Girlwithasecret: I don't think you have offended anybody with your story. How could you? It's *your* story and yours to tell.
I think it gives an honest appraisal of working in the sex industry. I'm sorry to hear you had bad experiences. I'm glad to hear you seem to have come out of it relatively unscathed and that you feel some good came out of it.
Anyway, thank you for telling your story.
May 30 2006, 08:52 AM
Props to you for telling part of your story. I think this is exactly what we need- someone with actual experience in that world. We NEED to hear your voice! Thanks so much for sharing with us.
I hope you will consider sharing more, too. I know it's easy for me to judge or whatever, when it's something I don't know about.
May 30 2006, 12:26 PM
((Maddy29 and Smurfin)) Huggs and many thanks to you both for your support!
(Maddy29) I will share whatever I can, ask what you want and I will answer.
(Smurfin) My experiences were "interesting" some good, some bad...My "bad" ones are nothing in comparison to those of other girls. I learned from others around me and stayed away from many sketchy situations!
Writing that post was so hard...What do I say and where should I start? It took me a week to get up the courage to write that!
The sex industry is full of hypocrisy; for every good aspect there is double that in bad (sorry if that made no sense). People are always trying to take advantage of you someway or another and not everything is as simple as it seems! Working on the internet as a chatgirl/pornstar was the epitome of that for me- I only did webwork nothing to paper/video- You would go to a "shoot" and magically there is now another girl or 2 guys, when initally you were told it would be just you. This happens alot and I would see it as well with the other girls...You wonder if you misheard or if they just conveniently stuck that in? It happened to me twice, then I started to say something back or refuse to work until they paid me for more than just a "photo shoot". After 6mths I had enough and moved onto something else. It's funny to me in some respects that the suicidegirls are celebrated for their tattoos and piercings ("uniqueness") when 4 years ago we had to go to great lengths to cover ours and put on makeup to be a fantasy of the "norm"! Go figure...I also did the first of the "Naked News" (I didn't know what it would later become!)and won an award for some shoot I did for an online mag as a goddess...Picture being in class and getting a message on your phone about some web award and can you go looking sexy to sign autographs..."No I cannot, I have a paper to write and you people suck! Stop calling me!"
I was lucky in respect that I chose to do what I wanted. When I didn't like something or felt I was losing control of my situation I left or stopped it (...may sound simple but it wasn't always). There were so many girls I knew who felt they had to do whatever was put infront of them... You have to be in command of your body AND your mind. Because someone says its sexy or hot just means they will be making more money off you!
May 30 2006, 12:41 PM
THanks so much girlwithasecret
I think you are really brave! How do you feel now that you've posted some stuff? Does it feel good to "tell" someone about it? I imagine it'd be really hard having that secret to keep.
I'm working up my courage for a post
Not the same as yours, but a difficult admission for me.
May 30 2006, 02:49 PM
girlwithasecret, thanks for sharing. I love hearing about other people's experiences. Thankfully you got out safely and can share your story. Too bad that others in your life that you have shared with have freaked out on you.
May 30 2006, 04:02 PM
Busties you're fabulous! I shared my story here because it's a forum for women (and men) to share their experiences and seek advice about everything and anything without being judged (at least not harshly). I've come here for ages and feel comfort in knowing that Busties learn from other's experiences and take something from it!
(maddy29) I feel like I've shed some of that huge weight I had on my shoulders for a long time! I tend to keep things to myself when it's not necessary just to avoid confrontation...Once you get it off your chest you do feel better
(sorry I meant a smiley face but can't edit on here properly!)
(ginger-kitty) having people know has always been my biggest fear!
My nightmares revolve around that! I have 3 girls that have been dear friends for many years and wish I could tell them! It would explain me and a few blanks for them better! That's not how it will go! Here's what's so far happened when people I'm close to have found out:
I told my best friend since highschool that I was stripping (not even the other jobs!)and that I had to tell someone because it was too hard to keep to myself...She said cool, asked if I was ok and how the $ was; a very surreal but short conversation. After that it was never brought up again except when I told her I had stopped... I thought it was ok but a year later 2 people whom I'm associated to (but are really her friends not mine) said to my ex and another friend on seperate occassions that I was a sripper... Let your imagination run free because that what almost happened! I don't trust said friend anymore and confronted her about it but not much came of it, she knows I think she's sad and untrustworthy for that tho' we do remain friends. The people that "heard" said rumor either believe it or not, I can't do damage control everywhere. I didn't attend school/work in the same city as I grew up in, so it's all hearsay really! The ex was an ass to begin with and wanted to blackmail me!!! He said $ or I'll call your family! I knew someone would eventually say that, so I put on my bravest face (not a very good one)and said that unless he wanted me "to arrange for him to wear his ballls for earring's" he'd shut the @%&$ up! I went out with him for several years and his habits had financially affected me (in some ways contributed to me doing this). When I reminded him of this and many other undeniable facts he puked from the anxiety and has since left me alone except once to ask for money because he was broke! I told another guy I was going out with too, he didn't care as he was working for a film company that was filming pornstars in B movies! He said never to worry and keep safe and talk to him if I wanted.-I should point out here that I was a "lated bloomer" and haven't gone out many people!- Last year I told another friend that I stripped (this is really all I have the guts to admit face to face) she said "Wow you have balls!" and promised to tell no one as she understands how it is to be judged.
Lastly, my boyfriend whom I dearly love and have been with for several years knows the stripper part and that was hard enough. I wish I could have told him the whole truth. When I started going out with him I didn't know what to expect of it and where we would go...The hard thing about a truth of this magnitude is that once you admit it, you've opened a Pandora's box! I've spent years and hours thinking about this and asked other girls in the industry what they do or did. The results were mixed, some wish they never opened their mouth...Other girls who were going to school as well said they didn't want the trouble and having it thrown back in their faces everytime something happened. I wish my boyfriend knew everything, but what would that do? Sometimes too much truth can hurt you especially if it's in the past and not going to affect your future. I don't have any STD's, children, I'm not scarred, etc. Having your past judged is sometimes an unnecessary hurt and also a good way to end something good! I asked him what he would do if someone ever said anything and he said he'd tell em their full of shit! Very sweet and left at that. I think in someways it does affect the way he sees me but hey, take it or leave it.
Discretion seems to be the key for me, if I walked past you on the street you wouldn't notice me. I look pretty and normal like any other girl in her 20's! Guys that have "seen me" seeing me in public is another world altogether, some people are real weirdo's.
May 31 2006, 07:43 AM
your secret is not only safe with us, bc no one will look down on you here, but also i wanted to say (and you (probably dont hear this much bc of the nature of the work and generally people are unenlightened assholes) but....i think you are very brave. i am glad things have calmed down for you, and that hopefully things are going well. please, dont feel bad about your past. i dont think you do from the sound of your posts, but i feel horrible about the fact that you have to keep all this a secret from those that are closest to you. either way, i admire you alot.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here