Jun 7 2006, 05:59 AM
Lucizoe, who sings that song?
Is anyone in the northeast area? They are having the annual National Organization of Women conference/Young Feminist Summit in late July. I've just started to get into political activism so I'm definitely going but I'd love to meet some Busties there.
Jun 7 2006, 10:00 AM
hey mermaid, i live on long island. the conference is at SUNY albany right? i went to school at Union College so i might visit some friends and go to the conference.
Jun 7 2006, 11:45 AM
mermaid-- the NOW conference is actually in a locale feasible for me, but upon reading the requirements, you have to be NOW member for 90 days prior
(do i have that correct ? my mind is so fuzzy right now, and reading their legalese is not going over so well)
which sucks, because I would have rilly liked to have seen this lady:
Cecelia Fire Thunder, President of the Oglala Sioux tribe, made headlines when she vowed to defend women's reproductive rights now imperiled by the draconian anti-abortion law recently enacted in South Dakota.
"To me, it is now a question of sovereignty," she announced to the press on March 20. "I will personally establish a Planned Parenthood clinic on my own land which is within the boundaries of the Pine Ridge Reservation where the State of South Dakota has absolutely no jurisdiction."
Jun 7 2006, 02:13 PM
hi mermaid - it's from the musical "Working." The high school I used to design for put it on in March (my last show before moving - sigh) and that number in particular is really powerful.
Jun 8 2006, 10:53 AM
Cecelia Fire Thunder is the main reason I'm going. I'm not a member of NOW and I haven't registered for the summit yet. I thought you could register as a non-member too? It seemed that way to me - there were two different "non-member" registration fees, one was cheaper for students.
I am waiting to sign up to see if any of my friends will go with me. Even though, I shouldn't bother waiting because I'm going to go alone if I have to.
Katie, It's at the Crown Royal Hotel I think.
Jun 8 2006, 11:29 AM
upon looking a little further, i think you can still register... i would love to go, and if that pans out, all i have to do is see what my work schedule would be like...
Jun 10 2006, 08:10 PM
Jun 11 2006, 10:16 AM
I think that's very cool and a good step. If you ask me, porn isn't going anywhere. And I don't want to be chastised by the feminist community because I admit that I enjoy porn, and I wish that there were more women-friendy alternatives.
Jun 11 2006, 12:53 PM
Jun 11 2006, 02:16 PM
My mother is a feminazi (sorry if you're offended by the phrase, its just what I've come to call her.) and every time I say "Well yeah, I want to go to college, but when I have kids, I want to be a stay at home mom and a housewife" and she just gives me this look like shes so disapointed in me. and its not that she doesn't want me to have kids, she can't wait for grandkids, but she wants me to do it all, have a full time career, raise perfect children who get straight A's and still have a beautiful homemade dinner on the table by six. Not that she did any of those things, but I should aspire to.
I AM NOT F***ING WONDER WOMAN!
that song just made me think of that, luci. Thank you for listenning to the rant.
Jun 11 2006, 02:39 PM
Honestly, I can't stand the word "feminazi" - at the risk of sounding like one, if you've lost family members in the Holocaust or even if you have just a basic understanding of Nazism (i.e., that they were pretty much against everything feminism stands for), you would be embarrassed to use it. The Nazis came into power during a backlash against one of the most progressive periods in German history; a big part of their platform was a return to "Kinder, Küche, Kirche," translated as “Children, Kitchen, Church” and Hitler believed that a woman's "world is her husband, her family, her children, and her home."
It's bad enough that religious conservatives and reactionary right-wingers use this term - they generally have no clue and the word "Nazi" tends to get tossed around like a football whenever anyone (on the right or the left) disagrees with an opposite point of view; when feminists themselves actually use it, we're giving credibility to a term that isn't just insulting but completely ignorant as well.
Jun 11 2006, 03:05 PM
suggest an alternative. there is a need for a word that is strong enough to encompass that sort of idealogy i think.
Jun 11 2006, 03:20 PM
All I'm saying is that if you look at the Wikipedia
entry or even some of the bullshit hurled around the urban dictionary
(yes, anyone can post any kind of garbage they want there, but it is an unofficial dictionary of slang, and it gives you a pretty good idea of some of the vulgar attitudes associated with that term, let alone the offensiveness of its roots), you wouldn't want to associate yourself with a term that is generally used by your enemies to try and undermine you (there are a couple of entries in there that try to differentiate between feminists and "manhaters" but most of them just tend to conflate the two terms).
I'm not really sure what terms would be better - maybe because I've met dozens of feminists and not one of them has fallen under that category. It's like some kind of mythical anti-unicorn of frothing-at-the-mouth feminism. Not that I'm doubting the veracity of the original poster's experience, but again, it's not something I have ever experienced personally (i.e., meeting a feminist who advocates that a woman "has to do it all"/not have choice as to how she wants to live her life).
ETA: And I'm sorry if pulling out "the Jew card" makes me particularly strident on this issue, but hearing someone on a feminist board use that term so casually makes my stomach lurch. It's bad enough that it's become so commonplace, but you'd think people here would know better.
Jun 11 2006, 03:25 PM
I agree with you, snafooey. I feel the same way about how loosely some use the term "gay" as an adjective with a negative connotation.
How about "extreme feminist" or "extreme feminism"? I think that may get the message across more accurately.
Jun 11 2006, 04:26 PM
I don't like that word and the connotations. I didn't lose any members of my family to the Holocaust, but Hitler and his party are things I don't like associated with a cause I believe in. Also, snafooey made some good points about how the two ideas contradict one another.
Extreme feminism would be good. For some reason, I like militant feminism, which is somewhat accurate as well. A part of me wants to say stereotypical feminism, even though I think that would be problematic (As in, feminism is too broad for stereotypes and it is kinda playing into the conservative's views.).
Jun 11 2006, 04:45 PM
how is it extreme feminism to worry about your high school age daughter who is presumably nowhere near having children simply declaring that she will stay at home with her children when/if she has them? i mean, how could solitary fey even know what she will or won't do?
i think she might have been annoyed because there are a lot of young women out there selling themselves short based on these hypothetical issues. i knew tons of women in college who chose not to be ambitious because 'well, i'm just going to stay home with the kids anyway, why bother applying to grad school?'
i don't think it's so much that she wants you to be wonderwoman, she just knows that you're (presumably) a very young woman with a lot of choices to make between now and the day you actually do have children. and whether you'll stay home or not should ideally be one of those bridges you should cross when you come to it. your mother probably wants you to be who you want to be, for yourself, for as long as you can before it's time to make childrearing decisions. especially since you have no way of knowing what the situation's going to be. what if you end up a single mother? what if the father's income alone won't support your family? what if you have a kid, stay home for 6 months and then realize you're really unhappy? i think your mom just wants you to keep your options open so you don't get trapped in a bad situation or compromise your own happiness.
how is that being an 'extreme feminist'? and even if she did really want you to make that choice, how is even that being an 'extreme feminist'? most women in this country work and raise children at the same time, regardless of what they planned for. since when is reality 'extreme'?
Jun 11 2006, 07:24 PM
I apologize for the word... bad idea... my bad. Militant feminist is good.
Perhaps I did not explain the situation as to make you make assumptions about me. I have lived a thousand miles away from my mother for a year, barely waiting a day after graduation. I am engaged to a wonderful man that I have been with for three years and know, although this might seem strange to many, that I will be together with for the rest of my life until one of us dies. I personally don't plan to have children until I am a lot older, and stable finacially and emotionally. I plan to join the Navy next year. My mother knows this. Last month my mother called me and ask me "are you having kids yet? you should have kids... you and him have been together longer than me and your dad were." When I said I was still in school she said "well there's daycare and so and so did it." I am dead f***ing serious.
I am ambitious. But not for a career, for knowledge. There isn't a career in the world that sounds better to me than staying home with my kids. I apologize if that seems strange.
P.S. Maybe the word works for my mom, because she DOES make all feminists look bad.
Jun 11 2006, 07:26 PM
hey, my mom had a friend when i was growing up who was the most radically extreme feminist imaginable. dang that woman was scary. you don't know unless you've met her yourself whether she's freaky about it or not. sounds like this mom in trying to live vicariously through her daughter and that's never a good thing.
i work, i raise this kid on my own, i go to school, and i'd trade it in for a stay at home mommy job in a second. that doesn't mean that i don't take pride in what i do for a living, no matter what the job i hold may be. it doesn't mean that i don't strive to excel at it, to be amazing in my field, i DO. it just is not my lifestyle of choice. and i think it IS incredible that women are able to pull it off every day. it is unnatural to have that much pressure on you all the time and not totally melt down. it's a lot, too much at times, and i would Never slight any woman who didn't feel up to it and wished from something different. leaving my wee kid in the hands of someone else all day every week day so i can go out and earn enough money to feed, house and clothe us SUCKS!! i Hate it. pressuring a woman to want that kind of lifestyle when she doesn't is shitty. and telling someone that they're too young to properly know their own mind is pretty weak too. sure, your feelings may change over time but that doesn't mean jack right now. now is really all you've got to go on, looking at things from a perspective down the road that may never play out is kinda useless, no? when i was younger i thought for sure that i would never want children but look at me now. still, at that time i lived my life accordingly and that is all that anyone can do. trying to live for the unimaginable future is futile.
snaf, i wasn't disagreeing with you just so you know. i only meant that there Should be a strong enough name for that kind of behavoir and 'nazi' certainly is not it.
Jun 11 2006, 07:43 PM
i guess my assumption (and it was just that, an assumption) was that solitary's mom had expressed annoyance at the fact that she wanted to stay home in general, not the specifics of the situation (which she didn't tell us) or that she really does expect her to be superwoman like that.
there's a huge difference between 'you should totally have a kid right now even when you're probably not in the best situation for it' and 'don't assume you'll be a SAHM', which is what i got from her original post.
and also, it doesn't sound like the issue is your mom being a militant feminist so much as her trying to impose her own choices on you. i can't think of a single (real) feminist i know who'd pressure their daughter to have kids while she's still in school and planning a career as intensive as the military, not to mention still very young.
and i do think staying home is quite admirable -- it's just that you can't really make assumptions about what your situation will be.
your situation sounds a lot like mine, solitary. i live 2000 miles away and am just starting out in my career. my mom is suddenly putting the pressure on for me to settle down and have kids, because that's what she did: raced through college, married my father, and popped out four babies before she was 30. and she's doing this even though she knows i'm totally single, working minimum 50 hours a week, make next to no money, and will continue paying my dues in my field for the next few years at least. but that was her timeframe, and now she's trying to hold me to it.
Jun 11 2006, 08:45 PM
My problem was with the word "feminazi" rather than the expectations solitary's mom has with her. Sorry if I came off as someone who's jumping on solitary for wanting to be a stay at home mom. I think if you can do that and want to, it's fine. When it's being forced on you, then it's problematic.
Jun 15 2006, 03:19 PM
I don't know how many Loungers are still following this, but it appears that the infamous Duke U. Lacrosse Team rape case is collapsing.
Mike Nifong, the DA on the case, is in some trouble for making public statements contradicted by the actual case evidence: News & Observer 1 News & Observer 2 New York Times
Here's a column on the matter from Wendy McElroy:*
Here's an overview of the problems with the case from La Shawn Barber.
Nobody has less sympathy for fratboy jock assholes than I do - well, excepting their girlfriends and other students who have to deal with them - but this whole thing stinks to high heaven.
*Bust's forum software seems to have a problem with commas in "\link" formatting.
Jun 19 2006, 04:40 PM
"I AM NOT F***ING WONDER WOMAN!"
How come this is never an issue for dudes? Get over yourself, and learn that you might want to consider reasons why you, the woman, are the one who is expected to stay at home.
Jun 25 2006, 03:25 PM
Jun 25 2006, 06:10 PM
What?! I'd never heard of that until now!
Jun 25 2006, 06:25 PM
ok, thats a new one!
Jun 25 2006, 06:42 PM
if we are going to post links of disturbing stories... get this one from mens news daily. this is an excerpt, but really you should read the whole damn thing.
"Feminists failed broaching the Muslim faith. Indeed, one of the reasons Muslim countries see western cultures as being threatening is due to the fact that all western cultures are radically feminist. We insist on exporting absolutist feminism via every possible channel, and then wonder why Muslims are ready for war against the evil West. Do not mistake me: I am not saying we deserved to be attacked. I am saying that it could easily have been avoided had we said â€œNoâ€ to radical feminism in the 1960â€™s.
We fear it is a rude insult to the American melting pot when American Muslim women wear a chador. It is not. It is a rejection of feminism. We should take this seriously, and clean our own house of the absolutist feminism that Muslims of both sexes so correctly reject.
When relativists drop the â€œAâ€ bomb, it is always a ruse to crowbar the creation of immoral policy and law. In the absolutist-feminist playbook, â€œcooperationâ€ means absolute submission to absolutist perspectives. Any disagreement with feminist mandates is â€œabusiveâ€. They vociferously declare that conflict is always verboten unless it involves feminists waging war on morals, marriage or fatherhood.
There is no â€œmiddle groundâ€, as Danforth suggests. We are either a moral society or we are not. Feminists win simply by poking one hole in morality, from which Hell spews quickly.
V-Day luna-chicks entirely disregard the fact that women initiate slightly over half of all serious domestic violence. Their circus of emotional rants, demanding guilty-ridden reparations by post-Victorian feminist males, continues to successfully terrorize Congress into funding the Violence Against Women Act (VAWA). As Dr. Steve Baskerville points out, VAWA is the most powerful weapon in the feminist arsenal, most often misused to destroy heterosexual marriage and fatherhood in a complete absence of fact."
heres the whole article
Did you hear that girls? Being against domestic violence RUINS marriages!!!!!
Jun 25 2006, 07:08 PM
I am double posting this in several threads. Ignore it if you've already seen it, but it's been on my mind for a while now.
At the very least we need to start looking more deeply into the things our government deigns to tell us. Loose Change Terror Storm
Jun 28 2006, 01:37 PM
Hmmm I watched Loose Change, and there's lots of food for thought there, but I've seen a more convincing explanation for the collapse of the Twin Towers here: http://www.channel4.com/science/microsites/S/science/engineering/news_towers.htm l
And this is a site that the documentary says it got lots of info from. Scroll down to look at the ads: http://www.americanfreepress.net/
Jun 29 2006, 05:43 AM
Father W. protects us from ourselves.
I swear, even on my day off I can't escape the nightmare.
Jun 30 2006, 10:50 AM
Okay, this is in Russian.... http://mk.ru/numbers/2255/article78320.htm
but here's a bad Babel Fish transation: http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/trurl_pagecontent?lp=ru_en&url=http:% 2F/mk.ru/numbers/2255/article78320.htm
Basically, the article discusses the advantages and disadvantages of sleeping up the corporate ladder, for both men and women.
I think this is one of the most bigoted piece of writing I've come across in a while....
Jul 5 2006, 05:43 AM
ok, I don't mean to bust in w/ this, and I'm sorry if this doesn't belong in this thread (where I admit, I've never been before) but damnit, I gotta vent.
hosted a 4th cookout, my father in law (aka world's biggest mysogninist ass in the first place) & my neighbor, both middly-aged relatively affluent white men, were, for lack of better terms from my sleep depraved mind, picking on me.
I know, unclear. background: my f-i-l & I have a LONG history of bad blood; he's one of those good ole boys from the south (no offense anyone) that lives his life w/ the addage that women should be seen but not heard. really. his wife is totally submissive to him, a point of contention in my marriage over the years to no end, both directly & indirectly. when I married his son I'm sure it was a very dark day in his world bc I am about the antichrist of all things along that line.
and in that vein, we have battled, both openly & covertly well over a decade now. needless to say, family visits are right up there w/ undrugged limb amputation to me
my neighbor. nice enough. professional. love his wife, a strong woman in her own right. but over the years, and esp when my mr was gone, I had noticed that sometimes he'd make mean little comments to me, snide, very similar to what 'the ass' would do,play it off as a joke. unnerved me (bc truthfully I'm not used to Any man being that way & me not tearing his head off ever so sweetly) and made me think I was overly sensative.
well the 2 men got a chance to really Talk yesterday. joy. one started w/ the comments to and about me, and the other seemed to Feed off it.
my f-i-l at this point knows not to mess w/ me,that I will lay him out flat & then some but was really getting his rocks off encouraging my neighbor to act like that. back-slapping, tear wiping hooting & gfwalling, and my neighbor, like he was drunk (no booze) or something, laughing so hard but would cover himself by saying 'I grew up w/ sisters, I'm just picking on her' but you know, there's a point where it's playing, and there's a line where it's Not and everyone knows it.
they were like pack animals, turning on me.
I really believe that they were like 2 old impotent alpha's, threatened by an alpha female, and so they attacked. I kept wanting to shout
'HOW IS THIS O K?!' but didn't want to make a scene bc aside from that, we were having a great time, so by mid afternoon just pointedly avoided both of them. (which is the way I treat the ass anyway regardless all the time).
...I've experienced racism, classism, sexism, all and lot more before, but never Like That.
it turn(s)ed my stomach. I felt Violated by it.
raw. exposed. maybe it was a lesson I needed to learn but right now I'm still hurt and stunned.
I do see that clearly, others percieve me as stronger than I myself do, but what satisfaction or consollation is there in that? knowing that in the future I will likely be so challenged again?
I didn't ask for that. I didn't bait them. hell I didn't even fire back bc I was tying to keep things peaceful.
it's depressing and scares the shit out of me for the world I'm raising my daughter in.
that is all, and thankyou for letting me cut in & get this somewhat out of my mind and out here.
sorry for interrupting.
Jul 5 2006, 10:28 AM
Holy crap, freckleface! Kudos to you for not resorting to violence.
Jul 5 2006, 10:29 AM
Holy crap, freckleface! Kudos to you for not resorting to violence.
Jul 5 2006, 11:05 AM
if that happened to me at a gathering i was hosting, i probably would have politely asked the both of them to leave.
ok, ok, probably not so politely.
i mean, what kind of a world is this when you can attend a party at someone's home, eat their cooking, mingle with their family and friends, etc. and it's somehow ok to viciously insult them and expect to get to continue to enjoy their hospitality? that goes for both your father in law and your neighbor.
Jul 5 2006, 11:15 AM
i'm so sorry
that really is awful. it's hard dealing with other people's families. IF it was your own, you could've yelled at your dad, but when it's someone else's, it's hard.
My boyfriend's family is pretty nice all-around, but the grama is racist and occasionally says things about "colored people" in a negative way. my boy is good at changing the subject, but it makes me so uncomfortable. i try to just avoid any political conversations with them.
i don't even think they know i'm a feminist-ha! maybe i'll wear my feminist shirt next time i go over there
do you feel like their goal was to get a rise out of you? or were they enjoying your not saying anything?
people suck sometimes. no wonder i like hanging out alone
Jul 5 2006, 12:17 PM
freckle, you didn't interrupt, you're welcome here.
so yucky. know what though? they have to live with themselves for the rest of their lives but you get to ignore their existance most of the time. i feel awful for them both, they must hate life and themselves to be so full of spite and venom. sad.
Jul 5 2006, 03:08 PM
bkly, I couldn't ask them to leave bc my f-i-l aka the asssss, was staying w/ us (gone today already!!) and the neighbor & his wife were the only ones here; wasn't really a party-party, and yes, I do think they were trying to get a rise out of me.
I took the high ground bc I was raised better than that & damnit, it was just WRONG.
now I admit, I have in the past kidded w/ the neighbor some, til I realised that he was getting meaner and meaner and didn't feel like he was really joking anymore. my guess is that his sisters probly beat his ass when he was a kid and this is payback?
my mom thinks I should have said something, and is more upset that the mr didn't while it was going on, but if there is one thing I no longer expect ( & hence am not disappointed or hurt & upset by it) it's that he will stand up to his father.
ugly truth but that's how it is and some things you suck up & decide not to let hurt you anymore.
as to the neighbor, I do think I'm going to pointedly talk to him. he knew beforehand that I had issues w/ my f-i-l, and that hurts me that much more.
why these old men would feel threatened by a 35 yr old nothing stay at home Mother I might never know, but you'd think it was comdedy hour at the local bar for all I was the repeated butt of their jokes yesterday.
thankyou all for your words.
maddy- you wear that shirt to the next gathering!!
crap like that makes me Crazi. people sit & judge & condem and never take the time to know what they're really talking about and think they're so smug in their small small worlds.
it is sad, but infuriating too.
makes me want to be ever that much more outspoken about my beliefes and shove it down their ignorant throats but then I'm no better, sitting in judgement of Them, than they are.
dmaned and damned.
Jul 13 2006, 08:59 AM
This really takes the biscuit. "Pants" is British for "panties", by way of explanation:http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30000-13532614,00.html"Nice Pants And A Wax'
Updated: 12:57, Thursday July 13, 2006
Police have warned women setting off for a night on the town to wear "nice pants".
It's in case they fall down drunk in the street and "show off more than you intended".
The advice comes in a Suffolk police safety campaign magazine which shows pictures of young women slumped on the ground.
"If you've got it, don't flaunt it," they are urged.
The magazine adds: "If you fall over or pass out, remember your skirt or dress may ride up.
"For all our sakes, please make sure you're wearing nice pants and that you've recently had a wax."
The article goes on to say it would be better not to get blind drunk in the first place.
Readers are also told to stick with friends, book a taxi home and watch the amount they drink. Officers said the gossipy, tongue-in-cheek style was designed to alert young women to the dangers of getting legless on nights out.
"We need to raise their awareness of potential problems," said Chief Superintendent David McDonnell.
"Women become more vulnerable whilst under the influence of alcohol.""
Jul 13 2006, 09:19 AM
Glioness, I read that in the paper today (I admit it was in The Sun or the Mail - this is what I get for working for the polis) and all I could think was what the bleeding fuck?! It just strikes me as hellishly patronising as well as idiotic.
I mean, yes, the binge drinking problem exists, and no-one wants to see a random drunken girl's pants on thier night out, but the tone... my oh my. There are better ways to solve this, and talking to women like they're bimbos isn't one of them.
Jul 13 2006, 09:20 AM
I just posted something here, saw it, and now it's disappeared. WTF? ETA - now it's there again.
Jul 13 2006, 10:43 AM
I'm not sure if this is the best place to put this, but it's interesting... via feministing
I'll actually say something about it when I've got more time. Honestly. I just wanted to share.
Jul 13 2006, 01:47 PM
Hey girls, just think, you might get taken advantage of so make sure you look you best. That way we can add "she was fully waxed so obviously wanted sex" to his defense.
What patronising crap. Argh. That so has the tone of "if you're going to make an idiot of yourselves, at least let us get our kicks out of it". I hate that kind of shit.
As for that article, its really interesting and just goes to show there is still a need for feminism in todays society. Although sad for me as I'm going to do a science degree (same for you I suppose mornington).
Jul 13 2006, 02:56 PM
The article that mornington posted was very interesting. As a male engineer, it was a running joke that the only way to meet women in class was to take liberal arts courses. In practice, however, I have found this whole imbalance to be somewhat ridiculous. As a percentage of classmates, there were as many women at the top and bottom of my class as men. Granted, fewer women at both ends of the spectrum, but proportional to the men (the women made up about 30% of those in engineering when I was there). I had excellent male and female lab partners, as well as shitty male and female lab partners.
The same thing applies to my career. I have worked with top notch engineers both male and female, as well as men and women that I'm not exactly sure how they graduated.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't understand where people get off thinking that, just because someone is a man or woman, that they'd be better in certain fields based solely on their gender. What's between your ears matters a lot more than what's between your legs. Not everyone would make a good engineer, or scientist, or nurse, or doctor, or teacher, etc, but that has nothing to do with gender so much as it has to do with personality and learning style.
I think as the current generation of college students and recent college grads get into positions of higher influence, a lot of the gender bias in the sciences will fall to the wayside. I've never heard a comment from a classmate or professional colleague that implies women are not as good in science as men. I'm not sure if that is a sign of the times, or a reflection on who I associate with, but I can't help but see it as a positive.
As for the waxing and wearing cute panties, what a load of crap. I guess it's ok for a guy to pass out with his skid marked tightie whities hanging out, showing off some hairy crack? I mean, if they're going to be all stereotypical of 'drunk girls', then they should be equal opportunity offenders and slam the 'drunk guys' as well, right?
Jul 13 2006, 03:38 PM
punker, you put it so well (I keep wanting to call you miss jane) about the pants thing - I really do hate the "she asked for it" attitude that so many rape cases seem to get. I can, to some degree, appreciate the logic behind the magazine, but it just doesn't work. Honestly, I think most young women are aware of the dangers of getting blind drunk, but they do get blind drunk anyway. Getting a wax is not going to make the streets safter.
Part of my interest in that article comes from being on a scientific course myself - but less that 10% of students in my year are male. This is normal - the cambridge '04 intake was all female. I still come across the attitude that because I'm a woman, I'm not the real vet (I can remember my vet telling me his wife - also a vet - explaining to a cliet exactly what he had to do, and then he turned round and said "and when can I see the vet?") and I can't do the job as well as a man. Hello? There must be a reason why 90% of new vets are women. That said, the comments have all come from laypersons - particularly farmers - and the majority of those are fine with a woman once they get used to it.
This is more of a personal rant than anything. Step around it. I've just discovered that the Libyan government will no longer be giving non-libyan women the right to return to Libya to visit thier children once they leave thier husbands. Under Libyan law, until a male child is eighteen (and until a girl is married, although technically it's eighteen) they need thier father's permission to leave the country, even on the british passport they're entitled to throught thier mother. Most of these women ran away - and sometimes have been forced to return thier children to libya - and thier three-day visits once a year are all the physical contact they have with thier children. Sometimes thier children don't even remember how to speak English - they can't even speak to thier mothers. It breaks my heart.
Jul 14 2006, 02:32 AM
Getting a wax is not going to make the streets safter.
Of course it is mornington! Didn't your mother ever warn you about the pube monsters? They stalk the streets attached to animal like women (everyone knows that proper nice women have no body hair at all, no clitoris, and never ever swear), waiting to pounce on their unsuspecting victims, bringing the downfall of them and society itself.
Or something like that.
I hear that female doctors get a lot of that too (being called nurse, being asked for the "real" doctor etc). A few years back I remember a bit of an uproar because a female doctor had said that the profession was losing respect because there was more women than men and women couldn't make it to the top of "difficult" specialities such as cardio or surgery. That viewpoint is stupid because its nothing the doctors (of either sex) are doing wrong, but the publics apparent opinion of them. Not to mention the fact that I think lots of boys are now being told that medicine and vetinary (sp?) surgery are feminine caring professions and they want to be a real man and so should do engineering, or physics. Manly stuff.
Which is even more stupid because in that way I'm sure we are losing lots of brilliant male doctors and vets.
As for that about Libya. I don't really know what to say. The middle east/africa and the treatment of women is a very grey area for me. I don't pretend to understand it because its not my culture but at the same time I hear about the way women are treated and it still makes me angry and I find it hard to make these two ideas sit together.
Surely if the women are citizens of a different country they could seek legal help from that country?
Jul 14 2006, 03:19 AM
The "pube monsters" - I think my mother warned me about them. Woe betide anyone who lets a few hairs straggle! I like to see a police magazine that tackled misogyny, but maybe they don't quite have the brass neck to do that yet...
Jul 14 2006, 08:39 AM
QUOTE(punkerplus @ Jul 14 2006, 04:49 AM)
proper nice women have no body hair at all, no clitoris, and never ever swear
That makes it official, I am neither proper nor nice.
Jul 15 2006, 12:21 AM
Hi, I hope no one minds me cutting in here....
I had just finished writing a blog on my myspace about a dream I had involving a threesome with "Batman" and "Harley Quinn" (Uh...those of you that read comics or watch cartoons will understand this). I sent a pm to my friend to tell him to check it out. I thought it was hilarious, nothing to take seriously, I mean it was just a dream... and he writes back lecturing me about how it's not "lady-like" or "professional" to advertise my sexuallity.
I mean I'm 23 yrs old and he's 40. My perceptions of the 21st century female is much different than his. He thinks when it comes to discussing sex it must be very hush hush and not broadcasted for the world to hear, and me I just don't care. I mean I'm not broadcasting my PERSONAL sex life, but rather this fictional one, and he believes that no one will take me seriously as a professional (PS: I'm a comic book artist/ illustrator/ teacher's assistant). I mean I'm not discussing this stuff at my JOB!!! And discussing sex in illustrative and literary format is how I express myself...hell, it's how I get my kicks in life (and make a little money too).
If a woman can't be sexually expressive in lit and an artistic format, then when can she?????? In the bedroom??? In the back of a car??? Why do we always have to be "lady-like"??? Even in the arts...this frustrates me because I'm in a male dominated profession, and it seems like I'm always expected to either be passive or agreeable. I'm strong and I believe what I believe, but dammit! Don't ever tell me I can't fantisize about BATMAN!!!
if you're curious, here's my post on myspace
Jul 17 2006, 08:50 AM
this is annoying. as if we need yet another thing to give fuel to the fire that we should be staying at home so we dont ruin our delicate constitutions. ugh
Jul 17 2006, 09:16 AM
What's interesting is that in the article the researchers don't mention that in addition to working outside the home women have the added stress of coming home and working a second job. Not male bashing but most men don't do the level of work inside the home that women do - is that going to add more stress to your day? Uh yeah.
There seems to be this really insidious backlash against women that is progressively getting more prevelent - the whole women should consider themselves "prepregnant" crap. Women are addressed with this but not men, I mean what about men's sperm health? That's important too, but often not discussed. Then there's the right wing, women should submit to their husband stuff too that has been working it's way into more mainstream thought. And then there is this article which seems to be trying to prove that women just can't cut it in a man's world. This is the crap that really infuriates me.