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Intake went well. I'm seeing a psychologist. I'm definitely moving forward. In the past I wouldn't have even considered having a male therapist but now l do (never mind that he's gay). I decided to go to the shrink so can talk about myself and my various hangups/issues (PCOS, over competitive, etc...) in a controlled setting without sounding like a self absorbed a-hole (because we all know that what I really am).

I realized I needed to talk about the rape more often. I don't talk about it b/c I'm afraid that I will be reduced to a blubbering pile of nonfunctional goo and have a psychotic break. I have to find balance between functioning and healing, which I have not been doing. For the past six years I have essentially given myself only one day a year to deal with/grieve/cry about it. If I'm going to get anywhere it's time to talk about it. It's time to stop waiting to let go and actually do it.
wow-good for you! this is such hard stuff. so great to acknowledge that yeah, you gotta talk about it and experience all those awful feelings, and cry it out, and be supported and all that crap. one day a year is definitely not enough! i'm so glad you are getting outside support for this-we all deserve to have that.
Hi all. I know that I haven't been here much in the past few months and I feel weird about that. So, sorry, if anyone noticed me not here. I promise I am still working hard in the world of sexual assault. I even got a chance to go to our state capital to talk to legislators about laws that effect sexual assault survivors. Trust me, it sounds more impressive than it was, but I'll do better next time.

I have been reading a book about survivors of incest. Trying to get more "book learnin'" as opposed to just doing this work straight from the heart, only. Anyway, it was a ground breaking book in the early 80's and it really drove home how far we have actually come. But one part jumped out at me and kind of made me laugh. It was commenting on how rape survivors sometimes will start volunteering to work with other survivors. And some even start find a whole new career doing that. I was like "Hey! That's me!" happy.gif
hey kittenb smile.gif good to see you around the boards.

that's so awesome about your talking to legislators! yay!

it's funny, cause i totally wanted to work with survivors. i loved my therapist and i just saw myself being that healthy, healed person who helps other women through. sadly, i tried to do that wayyyyy too early in my own healing, and it sucked. i got my social work degree and started counseling-not specific to rape but pretty much all my clients had been abused in some way. sad.gif Anyways, it was all too much for me.

I think about it sometimes-like will I ever be in a place where I could actually do some of this work? As a therapist or just on a crisis line or whatever. I feel like it'd make me insane though (insaner) to hear the stories, etc. i dunno.

how is everyone doing? deschat-what's up? erin? tankgirl? datagirl? treehugger? rainy city girl? what's goin' on?
on the 27th i'm getting my IUD inserted, I need to know if I'll need to take some recovery time off.

*goes to bump the child free thread*
Hi Maddy...I'm still around. My internet's been really wonky lately so I've basically just stuck to the Okayers thread.

But it seems to be better, for the past couple days.

I spent some time working as a volunteer at the women's resource center in the town where I went to college. I also used to speak at "take back the night" marches.

Then I got a job, out of a criminal defense law office...and many of our clients were rapists and abusers. That was a really, really low point in my recovery....there's nothing like listening to a rapist try to justify what he did...and your job is to try to find loopholes to get em off? Uh.....really bad time in my life.

I can't look back on those times with any kind of self respect.

It's why I'm a steamfitter now. None of that political crap...nothing where I have to feel like I'm selling my soul, at least.

I'd like to get some sort of job helping other survivors....but I don't feel that good at that kind of thing. I'm better with machines than I am with people, I guess.

Deschats, congrats on the IUD! I'd plan to take a couple days off....just to reward yourself for a big step toward your self autonomy....treat yourself kindly after a procedure such as this. smile.gif

I'd like to throw a "thought" out there....or find out if anybody has any experience with this:

I'm a caucasian woman and I was raped by a black man. There's a part of me that censors that race fact out of the whole event when I'm talking to other people...because I fear that it will give people an "excuse" to call it a racial thing, like a "justification" for racisim. I don't want to be responsible for some asshole's misguided sense of justice, and to go around and think that "all" black people are rapists. So, how do you balance that out?

I ask this, because at lunch one day we were talking about interracial relationships...and I was asked if I had ever slept with a black man. So the rape came up, and it was the first time I had ever told anybody what the race of the rapist was (other than the police 20 years ago when it happened)...

I dunno. And I hope I'm not starting a flamewar with this post. Race is such a touchy issue, to begin with.
Hey treehugger,
Yeah, I found that working with survivors is just so horribly upsetting. Knowing how hard it is for them, how long it'll take to feel better, that they'll probalby never get justice, etc. It's just too hard for me.

about the race thing- I think it's really unfair that you feel silenced because of the racist conclusions that other people might make. When you talk about your rape, you aren't going to be saying that it happened because of his race. You are NOT responsible for other people's racism-they are going to think what they're going to think. And really-are the people you talk to about it going to make those kind of judgments? I can't really see you hanging out with people like that....

That being said-does it matter to you in any way that he was black? I mean, does it make a difference to you? Is there an impact on you because he was black?

I don't know if that made any sense at all smile.gif

So great that you talked about the rape!!!! So so great.

I'm in a weird holding pattern. I can kind of accept that my grampa was a perv, a gross man. Sexually inappropriate and stuff. I can even accept that he touched me or whatever. But the more violent stuff (rape, guns, porn) I'm just like "naw, no way!!" ANd then the REALLY wild stuff (group of men, ritual stuff) is just SO CRAZY to me. And I can't remember anything again. It's just like before I remembered. Part of me thinks I just have to live in this place forever, because I'll never get validation, and I don't seem to be able to actually handle the truth. Gah. sigh.
QUOTE(maddy29 @ Mar 20 2007, 10:03 AM) *

Hey treehugger,
Yeah, I found that working with survivors is just so horribly upsetting. Knowing how hard it is for them, how long it'll take to feel better, that they'll probalby never get justice, etc. It's just too hard for me.

about the race thing- I think it's really unfair that you feel silenced because of the racist conclusions that other people might make. When you talk about your rape, you aren't going to be saying that it happened because of his race. You are NOT responsible for other people's racism-they are going to think what they're going to think. And really-are the people you talk to about it going to make those kind of judgments? I can't really see you hanging out with people like that....

That being said-does it matter to you in any way that he was black? I mean, does it make a difference to you? Is there an impact on you because he was black?

I don't know if that made any sense at all smile.gif

So great that you talked about the rape!!!! So so great.

I'm in a weird holding pattern. I can kind of accept that my grampa was a perv, a gross man. Sexually inappropriate and stuff. I can even accept that he touched me or whatever. But the more violent stuff (rape, guns, porn) I'm just like "naw, no way!!" ANd then the REALLY wild stuff (group of men, ritual stuff) is just SO CRAZY to me. And I can't remember anything again. It's just like before I remembered. Part of me thinks I just have to live in this place forever, because I'll never get validation, and I don't seem to be able to actually handle the truth. Gah. sigh.

(((maddy)))...I have noticed that it's become easier in the twenty years it's been for me. But, yeah, there are still ups and downs.

Speaking at the "take back the night" march helped TONS.

No, it doesn't matter to me that the guy was black. Actually the situation that affected me the worst was the insidious, every-day abuse that was doled out to me by my (caucasian) high school "boyfriend". Not to be minimizing people who've been raped by strangers....but that particular situation is easy for me to compartmentalize and sort of "tuck away", compared to the every-day crap. I suppose because it was an isolated incident and it almost feels like a dream or something.

Most of the people I hang with are my co-workers, and their wives and girlfriends....and many wouldn't take it as an excuse for racism...although I know that there are some who are somewhat..."distrustful" of people of color. And I feel as if I'm bragging...but I'm the most liberal/open minded/feminist one of the group. So to them, I'm sort of "out there" anyway.

hey-you're cool-you should brag! smile.gif

I think that as long as you aren't like, harping on the race issue when you talk about your experiences, it's fine. I mean if you're all "I hate my black rapist" than yeah, you are sending a message out that you don't want to. But to silence yourself in any way isn't required, ya know?

I totally know what you mean about feelingl like it was a dream-and I'm actually SO glad you said that. I was just thinking about my denial system and stuff, and I think that part of it for me is that this only happened maybe, under 10 times? Spread over maybe, 8 years? I don't even really know. And the rest of my life really was pretty peachy keen. I mean people teased me (nicely) about having the Beaver Cleaver family. Obviously that wasn't right! But, I had it reallllly good at home. I mean, good to the point that I feel guilty ever complaining about anything including the abuse. So these random times that I was abused were so weird and just like, a dream-just totally unreal. Just so far outside the rest of my existence and my realm of understanding.

I feel like I keep saying this, but- did that make sense? smile.gif

Ah. I'm also having issues with trying to deal with my porn issues with my boyfriend-he doesn't watch much but I just want him to watch/look at stuff that's woman friendly and to understand why I don't want him looking at crap like Playboy. Not that he even really does, maybe online or something, but I just want him to get it. And doing this work with porn and my relationship is bringing up all this random crap. Bleeeehhhhh.

Must smoke some more ganjaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.
QUOTE(maddy29 @ Mar 20 2007, 11:33 PM) *

I think that as long as you aren't like, harping on the race issue when you talk about your experiences, it's fine. I mean if you're all "I hate my black rapist" than yeah, you are sending a message out that you don't want to. But to silence yourself in any way isn't required, ya know?

I'm going with Maddy on this issue, It's okay to hate your rapist no matter what color he is, it's not to use him as a benchmark for everyone else. My rapist was white and bipolar. I hate him, not other white bipolar people.

I just had a holy crap moment. I realized (this is going to sound dumb) that when I get my IUD inserted some one I have never met before will be all up in my bizness. I scheduled a therapy session for the following Thursday knowing full well this will be hard for me, I might have flashbacks and panic attacks. *crosses fingers* I hope I can go through it and not chicken out for the sake of treating my pcos. I'm so uncomfortable with the whole ob-gyn thing that I have never had a pap smear or the like. I get panicky just thinking about it. I don't know what I'm going to do. This freaks me out so much that I don't participate in oral sex even.

I will have Mrs. Rouge come with me and hold my hand.
I hear ya about the exams. I went about 4 years without one because I just couldn't stand the thought of it. It used to make me sick-I'd have to go home afterwards and just curl up and cry and feel sick. I'm better with that now, I can breathe through it, but it still hurts and I hate it.

It doesn't seem dumb to me at all. I had a few moments like that before getting my IUD, like "holy crap, am I really doing this???"

Do you have some good drugs to take before you go in? That will help with the pain and also the anxiety, too. And YES bring your mrs. That will help so much to have her there to keep you grounded, and to hold your hand.

Will they be doing a pap and pelvic before insertion? My dr. did one-might want to check on that just so you won't be surprised.
My understanding is that to insert an IUD, the doctor has to screen out any STD so they do a full pelvic and the like. At least, that's how it is in Illinois.

I am a serious survivor of gyne doctor fear. And after the past year, I feel like I have had more people involved in my reproductive organs than ever before in my life. The best advice I can give and the only way I made it through was to be totally honest with all of my doctors. I just laid my history out for them. The pelvic exam was annoying, the pap smear was painful. Especially so because I was recovering from a yeast infection. The pain was so bad and surprising that I burst into tears and was upset the whole damn day. When a doctor is doing her bizness, focus on deep breathing. If you need it, tell her to slow down whatever she is doing. If she does not slow down, she is in the wrong, not you! But at least with all of my doctors knowing what my history was, the tears were respected.

If you can focus on deep breaths and really relaxing your stomach and thigh muscles (practice ahead of time if you want) you will find the process easier. Your legs open wider and there is less resistance. You might want to tense up but try to focus on your breath. If your Mrs. is there, and the doctor doesn't mind, have her rest her hand on your stomach. Really feel the warmth of her hand loosening your muscles.

I know that gyne visits can be so fucking scary that we put them off too long. But I just cannot advocate strongly enough that we go, every year to get checked out. Enough people have treated our bodies with disrespect. We have to love ourselves enough to find doctors who respect our histories and keep us healthy. My last Pap smear was in September. I am dedicating myself to go every year, the week of my birthday in September for my annual.

Hi all !!!
It's been ages since I've posted here.I have been inspired to create music again.
I think I previously posted here a little about it.
Kittenb you are such a wonderful writer.Your last post resonated so strongly with me.I remember reading your quote
'In times of destruction,create something' a while back. Well I have. Songs.I'm playing the piano again and have a gig tonight and next
I stick my finger up at my fucked up siblings and am living the life I want to live!!
I have put alot of memory behind me for a while (I have to) because I just want to write music again.The way I see it is if I
don't do music,I let the past engulf me and dominate me.I just want a rest from it.
I also agree with you Kittenb and the gyno thing.I only just had a pap smear after four years last month.I too am very
anxious with anyone doing anything down there.I went to a wonderful woman Dr though and it really wasn't as bad as I remember it was the last time.
It's been forever since I posted here too, but I was just stopping in to see how everyone was doing.

I don't have time to read all the past discussions, unfortunately, but hope everyone is ok!
Warning, may trigger.

I got my IUD put in on Tuesday. It was the worst thing ever. I felt so dirty and uncomfortable having the doctor all up in my business. I hated having some one I have never met before putting their fingers inside me. I wanted to scream. I knew it would trigger me so I made sure to have the next two days off. that doesn't change the fact that now I'm barely holding on. It's going to be a really long time before I want to have sex again. I went to the therapist but I didn't bawl my eyes out like I really wanted. I don't know what to do. Getting the IUD put in was like being raped all over again. It hurt so bad and it made me feel so bad about myself. Every time I think about it I want to cry. I know the doctor didn't rape me but it sure felt like it.
{{{{deschatrouge}}}} I am so sorry that the experience was so awful for you. Have you been taking care of yourself since then? Lots of hot tea and blankets and stuff? I hope you doctor was at least nice to you in your crisis.

Take care of yourself, hon. I'm thinking about you. I hope you feel better soon.
thanks you all for your support. I'm so lucky to have all you great survivors to vent at.

after I had the IUD put in I stayed home for a couple days and just rested. Mrs. Rouge took good care of me and pampered me. I let myself indulge, I had a Triple Hamburger with extra bacon and fries I must remember to give her props for taking such good care of me. Today I'm feeling better. I realized that the main problem was not that I felt raped (that does suck and I feel icky) it was that I was not allowing myself to feel. Just as soon as I let myself have my feelings and stopped fighting them I felt much better. Going to the shrink helped me come to that conclusion and helped to remind me that I need to take care of myself. I still think I need to cry, but since the Mrs' sister is visiting for the weekend I have to postpone it.
Hi, I've been around the boards awhile reading lots of posts - mostly much more lighthearted ones - but it's a rather serious situation that prompted me to write. I'm hoping you guys can help me figure out how to define what happened here and share your thoughts on a couple of questions that are troubling me now.

Two nights ago, I was traveling for work and met a couple of fellow travelers in the hotel bar while I was having dinner. We ended up playing darts and hanging out for quite awhile and I had a few drinks with them. Everything was very friendly and fun, and I honestly don't remember being that drunk. But there is a huge part of the evening that I don't remember. At some point I kind of vaguely remember walking to another place to have drinks. Everything is pretty fuzzy after that - what I thought was dreaming about fooling around with one of the guys but I suspect now was real. Cut to 6 a.m. the next morning when I wake up naked in the hotel room of one of the guys I met (the one I "dreamt" I was fooling around with). I throw my clothes on, completely freak out because on top of everything else my flight home is supposed to be leaving at that moment and while my purse is there I can't find my wallet. I ask the guy what happened and he is pretty freaked out too, as both of us are married and not to each other, and it looks like his stuff has been rifled through as well. He also says that there was someone else in the room with both of us earlier (someone we met at one of the bars, whom I don't remember at all) and that he suspects that this guy messed with our stuff. At this point I've basically thought, "oh my god, I just cheated on my husband, missed my flight, completely screwed up." I am still feeling drunk at this point as well.

I get back to my room, change clothes, pack up everything, call the airline (who tells me I can go standby) and start trying to figure out how to find my wallet and what to do. So I wait for the two guys to come downstairs, which they do, and the guy I was with has found my wallet in his room and brought it down for me. When he discovers that my ID and three credit cards are missing from it, he seems genuinely surprised, so I don't think he took it. My house and car keys are also missing, so he offers to run me up to his room and retrace some of our walking steps from the night before to see if we can find them. We comb the room but nothing's there. I ask what we did last night and can barely bear to ask whether we had sex. He says we did not but that we "had some fun," whatever that means. We also comb the walking path from the hotel to the two bars to find out whether we can find the keys, which we do not. He tells me that I fell down at some point and that the other guy who was in the room (not the same guy I had met earlier in the evening, but the guy who had messed with our stuff) was trying to come on to me. I have no recollection of any of this.

No luck finding anything, so he goes to the airport, I finish packing up after leaving messages about the missing stuff with the hotel and the two places we had gone, and spend the rest of the day in the airport, flying standby to get home, calling to report my credit cards stolen, buying stuff on my debit card (which was still in my wallet when it was returned) and going through extra security since I don't have a valid driver's license with me. I am wracked with guilt for what I regard as having cheated on my husband (and possibly having damaged our financial future) and also starting to notice a number of bruises pop up (I assume mostly where I fell, although a few look suspiciously like rug burn). My throat is also bothering me, which has me worried as well.

My husband meets me at the airport to get me my spare car key so I can get home. He is super-supportive but the story I have told him is that someone got into my purse while we were at the bar and that I slipped and fell as well, thus the bruises.

I used the fact that my throat was really bothering me as an excuse to drive myself to the urgent care facility (not emergency) this morning. I told the doctor there the whole story of what happened and they could not have been nicer or more helpful. It's possible that my throat infection is from what happened Friday night, though we don't know as strep is also going around. They also gave me a pelvic exam and tested for STDs. They did warn me (before proceeding with the exam) that because they are urgent care and not emergency room, the exam they could give would not include any kind of evidence collection, and I was OK with that. I have emergency contraception, a passel of antibiotics, STD tests in the works (and a private number to call to speak with a doctor or nurse about results or questions), and instructions to take care of myself and to follow up with my regular doctor. The doctor also offered me a hug (which I accepted) and was very pointed at saying that this was a thing that had happened to me, not something I did.

So here is my question: Would you consider what happened to me to be sexual assault? I have been working on the assumption that this was me being incredibly, incredibly stupid, drinking too much and fooling around with a man not my husband. But the doctor's comments and my own thinking (especially after the bruises started appearing and given how little I remember about the evening) are making me think that perhaps this really was an assault. The thing is that I think this guy thought it was consensual, that I wanted whatever it was we did (and who knows what I said or did that I don't remember), which makes things very fuzzy from my perspective. What is the difference between a big drunken mistake and an assault?

Part 2: Should I tell my husband? When should I tell my husband? What should I tell him? I do feel like he needs to know but I am afraid of how he will react. Our marriage has been a little rocky lately, particularly since his depression recently came back and he just went back on Prozac this week while I was gone. I think he would be really caring and supportive if he sees this situation clearly as a rape and not as his wife cheating on him with some guy. (He would probably also want to kill the guy from the hotel...he gets pretty angry about a lot of stuff, and this would be hundreds of times that.) But I honestly don't know what he'll do or how he'll see it. Also, if it ends up that I have an STD that adds another dimension to it. Part of me thinks I should tell him now so that if I get a positive test result on something later it's not "oh yeah, this is what really happened, and by the way we can't kiss for awhile until I get over my gonorrhea of the throat."

Thoughts or opinions? I feel horrible not telling the whole truth and in many ways I still feel like I cheated on him. I also feel like a complete tool for having lost the keys and letting someone else steal my credit cards and ID (not to mention missing my flight, which led to my spending a whole day flying home yesterday and plenty of time to mull over my no good very bad Friday). I thought I would ask here because I can't quite bring myself to tell anyone else I know in person yet. I need your advice, Busties!

First of all, it sounds to me (especially if you are familiar with your body, your personal tolerance level, etc), that you have been slipped something in the drink...I'm sure that's gone through your head. Can they check for residue of that stuff? I s'pose it's too late, or was, by the time you went to the doc.

You were legally incapacitated, meaning you didn't have the mental capacity at that moment in time to consent to sexual activity. So, in a nutshell, yes, personally I'd call it sexual assault. It doesn't matter if you were fooling around, etc....if you were drunk, you were incapacitated.

Now, the harder question...what to do about hubby? I hate to go all Ann Landers...but can I suggest maybe, first of all, going to a hypnotherapist? I don't know if they can cut through the fog of intoxication or date rape drugs, but they may be able to. If something DID happen to you...I'd suggest go, personally, and work out a plan for how to tell hubby.

Wish I could be more help.
sidda - Everything you wrote here makes me think that you were drugged. It is possible that you were drugged w/o the knowledge of the man you refer to in your story, the one you "fooled around with." It is also possible that he was drugged as well. It could have been by the third person that you don't remember but he does. This has been known to happen.

Date rape drugs affect different people in different ways. Most of them are pretty tasteless or the taste can be hidden w/in the taste of the drink they are slipped into. They can wipe out memories from before they are even ingested. It is, most likely, too late to test for them. Normally, the drugs leave a persons body w/i 18-24 hours of consumtion (sp). Please keep in mind that alcohol is considered the #1 date rape drug, especially when it is used delibretly (god, I really can't spell today!) to get someone drunk past the point of control.

As for how to get your memories back, well, that will be difficult. Many of the cases I have dealt with never get full memory back. The drugs have just wiped them out. I don't know that hypnotherapy will help because if it is a chemical blanking out the memory that might stay in the way. Does the chemical prevent the memory from imprinting, or whatever it is called? I am going to ask around at work and see if anyone knows and then I will post the answer here.

I don't think that you cheated on your husband. You clearly say that you do not remember having that much to drink and yet my guess is you had never had that strong a reaction before. As for telling him, that always comes down to you. However, you don't know what your health status is. STD tests done in the Emergency Room or Urgent Care will tell you your current status but you need to follow up test in about 6 weeks to determine if you contracted anything from this experience. When it comes to HIV, you should do follow up in six months. I am really happy to hear that you recieved such quality care at the Urgent Care center. I have worked as a medical advocate in emergency rooms with people who have been raped and the care can vary wildly from great to horrible.

If you need to speak to someone and are in the US, call 800-656-HOPE for the closest rape crisis center to you. If you are not in the States, you can check for a center in your country and area. Please let us know if we can be any more help.
Thanks, treehugger and kittenb - this helps a lot. I do suspect that something may have been slipped into my drink at some point. I have had slight memory lapses before when very drunk (which isn't typically something I would allow myself to get when with a bunch of people I don't know) but nothing like this. Particularly the fact that I obviously fell down or hurt myself somewhere (even if it didn't happen the way it was described to me by the man I was with) and don't remember that at all suggests to me that I was drugged.

I am staying home from work today because my throat infection is still bad. My husband thinks I have strep and I haven't told him anything else. He has been very sweet and caring, worried about me being sick. Of course, my mind is still obsessing about the whole incident on Friday as well as on what to tell him, and when. Just hearing from the two of you has really helped. I had been trying to name what has happened and it doesn't necessarily fit the dictionary definition of "rape" (and don't think I didn't google that and look it up in my copy of Our Bodies, Ourselves) so I felt weird calling a rape crisis counselor when I wasn't sure that's what it was. I've gone from thinking I have been incredibly irresponsible and stupid to feeling that I've been violated in some way but that it was kind of my fault for drinking in the first place, to feeling that maybe, what happened really wasn't my fault.

At this point I'm not sure whether I would want to do hynotherapy and actually find out the details of specifically what happened. Do you think that is important to do? My mind may change, but right now I feel like what I know is bad enough, that even if I never know what happened in that part when I was blacked out, it's enough to know that I was not competent to decide to do whatever led me to being naked in that bed, that I was violated.

Part of the reason I think I should tell my husband is for his own safety, with the STD issue that has already been mentioned. I am so afraid that I have contracted something from this incident - even if it's just the throat infection, which is bad enough. I think the whole issue of telling him is rooted in my effort to define what this was - because I feel better able to tell him if I can say, "I was raped" than if I was just...I don't know, stupid and drunk.
sidda - I work as a rape crisis counselor. I can tell you that there is a legal definition of rape that varies state by state and country by country. And there is a personal definition of rape. You are the only one who has the right to define your experience. The definition in books and on websites are not always accurate or current or reflective of many peoples experiences. I know that in Illinois, a person who is under the influence of alcohol cannot consent to sex. Your definintion of what happened to you may change and evolve over time. However, if you think you might feel better calling the RAINN line (the number I posted) give it a try. It is not uncommon to get a call from someone who does not know how to define their experiences. Help is out there and you deserve it.
I don't belive that what happened was your fault.
thanks, kittenb. After reading your earlier post I did put in a call this morning to the local rape crisis center here, and spoke with an advocate there. I'll repeat what I told her - that just hearing somebody else say to me that what happened wasn't my fault, that I was violated, means a lot to me. There is something about this experience that makes me not trust my own perceptions, so as much as I hate to rely on others to define for me what happened, I feel somewhat validated when I get that reassurance from someone who has been there. When I mentioned what I said earlier about this not fitting the "dictionary definition" of rape, the advocate really was my advocate - she said that this was a crime done to me, that this was not my fault, and that it was unfortunately rather common these days. She also thought it probable that I had been drugged.

She also suggested that maybe I consider talking with a therapist first (for me) before I decide when and how to tell my husband, and that one possibility might be for me to tell my husband in the context of therapy - like a joint session where I tell him about it. She also recommended a workshop that the local center holds once per month for loved ones of sexual assault survivors. Her main worry for me in telling my husband was that if I wasn't sure how he would react, that it might make things harder for me if he reacted poorly.

At this point I am going back to bed or to veg in front of the TV. I hardly ever take sick days, and my throat is still bugging me, and if there ever were a day to take care of myself, I've decided this is it. I think I will go ahead and try to see a therapist (I had honestly been thinking of calling someone before this happened, because I was struggling with how to communicate well with my husband and deal with his depression) and go from there. And I'm going to continue to come back here - thank you guys, so much, for your support. I'll check back in later today, but know that I'm so grateful you were here for me.
Yes, please. Veg in front of the TV, sleep under your softest blanket, whatever you need. I am glad that you called that number.
I like the idea of telling your husband with a third party. Especially if there are other things going on that make all of this harder.
You are not stupid. What happened was NOT your fault.
Just wanted to check in and say thanks for all the good thoughts and the virtual hugs. I'm sure there will be plenty to deal with ahead of me, but I've started seeing a therapist who I really feel comfortable with and am feeling much better emotionally these days. Right now I'm just seeing the therapist by myself, but on her recommendation I'm planning to ask the hubby to join me for some couples counseling. I'm not sure how soon we'll get into the assault stuff with hubby - we have plenty of other things that I've honestly been putting off dealing with for awhile about our relationship - but it's just great to have someone helping me think through/work through some of my life stuff, including the assault. Interesting how sometimes it is something awful that makes one deal with the stuff of life...
Hey all-I havent been around much lately, but I just wanted to say hey to all my lovely survivor ladies smile.gif

Sidda, I'm so glad you found this thread, it's incredibly supportive and an amazing place to just let it all out. I'm so glad you are seeing a therapist. And I just want to say again: IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT. YOU DID NOTHING WRONG. YOU DESERVE KINDNESS, COMPASSION, SUPPORT, AND LOVE. IT'S NOT YOUR FAULT.

deschat-how are you? i totally understand about the IUD. I did'nt want to scare you too much beforehand, but I did want you to be ready, cause for me it was really bad too. Mostly for me it was physical, but i was a total emotional wreck when I got home. How is it going now? It sounds like you are starting to see the benefits of expressing emotions. Are you having cramping and spotting? How do you feel about it now?

Datagirl-that's SOOO awesome about your music! I didn't have anything like that, and still don't, so I'm jealous smile.gif So great that you are able to enjoy this and put stuff on hold for as long as you need to. I loved your line about giving your sibs the finger, sometimes I work so hard on this stuff, and then sometimes I just say fuck it! I have to live a bit! I can't spend all my time dealing with this.

I've been doing ok generally, just have been noticing, I don't know how to describe it, but when I'm sexual with my boyfriend, I just feel or sense my grandfather's presence. Or I'll just flash really quick onto his face. I hate it. I fucking hate it. How long do I have to do this? What do I do to change it? Grrrrrr. I've been handling it ok, just reminding myself and grounding myself, and looking at boyfriend's face, etc. But it just makes me so fucking pissed that my grandfather's sick ass is so tied up in my desire and sexuality. I just want to scrape him out of me.
ahhh fault. stupid fault.

hi everyone. i'm sort of new around here, and haven't ever posted in this thread before.... i actually used to post at the lounge a long time ago, and left, and was assaulted (i think) about a month ago, and that prompted me to come back here. i needed some sort of community of strong, feminist girls (ladies, women, people) and, well, the lounge is the best place for that, i think.

anyway, what i've been struggling the most with is the idea of blame, personal responsibility, fault.... all that crap. i really don't know if i was drugged or just drank too much, and i don't really want to talk about it right now, but i have noticed that since it happened i blame myself for stuff all the time. my best friend said she's noticed i've become less sure of myself, and i do see that i second guess my judgment all the time now. and i make apologies for, like, existing or having opinions, or talking too much. where's my feminist fire??

i'm going to counseling, but it's different than talking with many people who might know what i'm going through...

Kali-yeah, I had that, and still have that, from two of my college experiences. They were rape, but I was so drunk, too. I've always had a really hard time with knowing where my responsibility lies. Especially because in the 2nd situation, I don't know if I blacked out, or dissociated, but the middle part I have no idea about. One minute we're fooling around on the couch, next thing I know, I "wake up" on the floor with his dick going in and out of me. I remember thinking, "well, too late now." I didn't freak out or even react until he asked me if he could come in me. No condom, of course-nice. Then I freaked out and realized what was happening. Or, what HAD happened. He asked me if I was a virgin before, and when I said yes, he said something weird about "oh, I hope nobody was videotaping that." Which made me paranoid for YEARS because I thought he meant that in fact, someone HAD been videotaping it.

Anyways, I never know what to call these situations. I feel like calling it rape minimizes other's experiences of rape. But, I didn't want sex, didn't consent, and they did it anyways, so that's rape, right?

I know you don't want to talk about it-it's painful and scary and stuff. I hope that eventually you can share it with us, because my guess is you'll feel a lot better once you get it out. Is part of you afraid that it really WAS your fault?

Where's your feminist fire? Well, sounds like some fuckwad assaulted it out of you for now. It also sounds like you are a bit in shock still. Your rage will come, but first you'll have to admit what happened. You taking responsibility for it is really a coping mechanism-a way to try to control the uncontrollable, a way to make you feel like you aren't really THAT vulnerable.

I don't know if that made any sense smile.gif I don't know what happened, but I know that it wasn't your fault. I know that no matter how drunk you were, it still wasn't your fault. I know that if you think you were assaulted, then you were. And I'm so sorry sad.gif Have you talked to your best friend about it?

Hey everyone!

Kali, I'm sorry that you feel partially responsible for what happened. I was raped by one of my bfs and I blamed myself for it, and still sometimes do. But I just had to analyze the situation, step back and keep telling myself that I didn't do anything wrong. I asked him to stop and he didn't. You didn't consent to anything, regardless if you were drinking or not. I also think it's awesome that you're going to counseling, which I haven't done (so let me know if it helps).

I'm sure the counseling will help with getting some of your confidence back. Have you told your friend what happened?

maddy-- that thing you said, "well, too late now" really rings true for me... also how calling this thing rape minimizes others' experience (of so-called "real" rape?)

cstars-- the thing that worries me is, maybe i did consent. maybe i initiated it. i honestly have no idea, although it seems like something i would do. the thing is...

i imagine it happened like i was like, "fuck me!" and then we got into bed and i was unable to move even, and he forced me...

and there there's the question of being drugged. i have a strong suspicion i was, i've NEVER felt the way i felt the next day-- realy fuzzy and disoriented, and still drunk into the afternoon.

i went to the emergency room to get tested for roofies, but they tested me for fun drugs like heroin and aspirin instead, then told me they couldn't test for date rape drugs, and now i have a huge emergency room bill and still no proof. sigh.

the counseling is helping. she pointed out a really interesting trend towards situations i have been in, how they've become increasingly more fucked up. so i guess this is some sort of wake up call?

thanks for being here, everyone.
Kali, even if you DID consent to it at first, it doesn't mean you wanted it the entire time. I told my bf that I wanted to have sex, I got into it and then when he started to do things I DIDNT want, I asked him to stop and he didn't. It was rape.

But I know how you feel about minimizing everyone else's experience of rape. I had a hard time admitting to myself that I was raped. Especially because it wasn't like the rape scenes you hear about in books or see in movies. I wasn't hit, or thrown down. And it was someone I knew, loved and trusted. But you have to look at it this way; if your best friend told you the same thing had happened to her, what would you call it? I'm glad you are having success w/ the counseling though. Hopefully, you'll start to feel a lot better.

Hope everyone else is ok!
Hey-is sidda out there anywhere?

cstars-I was thinking that exact thing-if a friend of mine told me this-I would be all outraged and stuff. But because it's me, there's this doubt there. It wasn't that bad, I mean, it didn't physically hurt at all. And, I was so drunk I didn't really know what was happening. I was fooling around with them, I never told them I didn't want to have sex, they were strangers, I didn't know them. Maybe I consented to the one guy before I blacked out? Although I know I would never have said yes to sex. But yeah, it's like-well, my other friend had the living crap beat out of her and landed in a hospital in a coma-now THAT'S rape.

Partly I think that our denial/doubts serve to protect us from the truth. But ya know? I think mostly it's just that we are constantly seeing our rape experiences invalidated, minimized, and even called false. And nothing would have ever happened to those guys-I couldn't have proved anything, and everyone of the one guys' frat brothers saw us dancing, kissing, etc. They would have said I just regretted it the next day.

Kali ma-Ok-I have NO DOUBT that I was NOT drugged. But I think you were. I mean-have you ever felt drunk into the afternoon,even when you drank a TON the night before? Oh, well you said, no, you never have. So I mean, yeah-you were drugged. sad.gif I'm so sorry. Who was this asswipe? Was there an opportunity for him to drug you? And why the HELL didn't the ER test you for, oh, I dunno, date rape drugs????!!!! Why couldn't they test you? Did they say it was too late?

The whole "well, too late now" thing scares me. That was such a long time ago, but at that point in time, I really was soooo passive. My grandfather trained me well, ya know? I just didn't have any self-esteem, or any outrage about it. I mean, I don't know why it didn't freak me out when I woke up like that. I guess I was just so out of it or something. I remember thinking, literally, "Well, might as well make the best out of it." GAH! That is fucking scary-I can't believe I ever thought like that. But I did, and it took a LOT of work for me to change that.

i havent read thru... survivors of what?
hey, guys, I'm here. I was out of the country for work and got back last weekend...haven't had much of a chance to get on the boards this week yet.

What you've expressed sounds a lot like where I've been, and still am, a lot. (Especially the "I think" after your "I was assaulted.") I got into this a bit with my therapist this week. It dawned on me that there was a reason why I was really needing other people to tell me that it wasn't my fault - that I was trying to get them to convince *me*. As my therapist pointed out, this is obviously going to be a hard sell to myself deep down, as I was there and the people I'm asking to reassure me were not.

I don't know whether I was drugged that night, or was just really, really drunk. I probably won't ever know. Assuming I was really, really drunk, one of the things that has been somewhat helpful to me is this idea that two things can be true simultaneously: 1) I made a bad choice to drink to excess that night and 2) I did not have the capacity to say yes to whatever happened in that hotel room, no matter what I may have done or said in those hours I have blacked out, and thus I was violated. And: the fact that both things are true doesn't mean that #1 makes #2 my fault, or that #2 is punishment of some sort for #1.

Now, I know this mentally, it's just a question of getting myself to really, really believe this in my heart (as evidenced by my whole thought process described in that earlier paragraph). kali, I have thought some of the same things you expressed in your earlier post - what if I initiated it? What if I came on to him? Even kissing someone besides my husband isn't something I would have done while I was sober, but considering that I've been feeling kind of neglected by the husband lately, is it something I would have done when very very drunk? Maybe, and there's where the doubt and the guilt come in.

maddy, I totally know what you are saying with comparing experiences to those of others - and not wanting to diminish the experiences of people who have survived more overtly violent experiences of rape. I think that's part of why I am still reluctant to use the word "rape" for my experience.

kali, I'm angry at those people in the ER who couldn't? test you for date rape drugs. What the hell? I'm not sure that knowing whether you were drugged or not would have let you avoid blaming yourself (I'm finding that even when I think about possibly having been drugged, I find other things to blame myself for in that scenario - that I shouldn't have been so careless to *let* myself be drugged, how ludicrous does that sound?), but I feel like you missed out on your right to know at least a little more about your situation, and that makes me angry.

I am still getting back to feeling normal in my body after a month. I started out with a terrible throat infection and feeling sick (as well as numb and horribly guilty and scared). Then after a round of antibiotics, I had no more throat infection, all the STD tests so far came back negative (but that doesn't mean I'm out of the woods on that one), but then was feeling a little off intestinally speaking and was treated to a yeast infection (which I think was due to the antibiotics). Pretty much cleared that up before I left for my trip, but started to get a rash that I have no idea what it was from. The nurse practitioner and internist who diagnosed my yeast infection took a look and thought it might be a drug rash, but it didn't go away after discontinuing the antibiotics, so they figured it was viral and would go away on its own. Ironically it seemed to go away and I actually felt pretty great while I was out of the country. Now that I'm back the rash has come back and seems to have spread, which is kind of freaking me out. I think I'm going back to the doctor on Monday to get it checked out. I do think it might be stress-related, however (hmm, y'think?). Plus, even though I did emergency contraception and I'm actually not sure I even had intercourse, I'm totally in wait for my period to come so that I can convince myself that I don't have to add pregnancy to my list of worries.

The sessions with my therapist have been helpful. It's going to take some time - hell, I tend to intellectualize and overthink everything, so just cutting through that crud and getting to my real feelings is going to take some time. kali, I hope you are finding the counseling to be helpful. I agree, it has made a huge difference to talk with folks who have been there.

whoops, sorry for dumping so much here! Hope everyone is hanging in there. Thanks for making this such a safe space...

wow. i, too, am so glad this is here. it's funny how i always end up coming back here, lurking or not, after all these years.

cstars, that is such a good point- if yr best friend told you the same thing, wwyd? i honestly have no idea. i know i wouldn't label her experience-- i've had too much of that from other people. i had a relationship with a guy a few months ago, and he named some of my past experiences as rape, and i got so mad! i felt like i had, in those instances, tried my damndest to understand the situation of the perpetrator, and celebrate my spunky, sassy self that got me out of those situations.

maddy, the way you woke up was how i woke up, too, i think.. the first day i just thought, "oops. i think i had sex. ha. ha?" then the second day i remembered him shoving his dick in my mouth and telling me "take it" and that, combined with how laid out i was the next day, just didn't feel right. at first i was willing to chalk it up to just being too drunk, but i started to think about these other details, and i got more and more uneasy.

apparently, they test you for date rape drugs if you make a police report, but there's no option to get tested and then make a police report, which makes a billion times more sense to me!! because if i had drugs in my system, i absolutely would have pressed charges immediately. but if there weren't any, i like to tell myself i would have just chalked it up to being too drunk and moved the fuck on.

sidda, it's interesting you are wanting to hear "it's not yr fault".... i cringe everytime i hear it! i was at an event where a woman was reading a poem that ended with "it's not yr fault" repeated, oh a hundred times too many, and i just burst into tears and freaked out completely. i could NOT hear it. i'm not sure why.... maybe because it makes me feel like a victim, powerless, out of control?

i also agree that knowing whether or not i was drugged perhaps might have alleviated some aspects of self-blame, but i would have found some other thing to be hard on myself about. if i knew for sure i was drugged, i bet i would start to question myself-- but WHO drugged me? maybe it wasn't him! and on and on and on it goes..... there's no certainty in this world...

i tell you what, i haven't left my beer alone in a bar since. that shit goes with me everywhere. and the one time i left it alone, i didn't drink another drop.

because this dude was a friend, someone i've known almost 10 years. someone i had partied with a billion times before, who'd seen me naked on more than one occasion, who i trusted and cared about. although you'd think i would have had an inkling when he told me this gem of a joke that night:

dude: "hey, wanna hear a joke?"
me: "of course."
dude: "womens' rights."
me: .................... [insert roofies here.]
kali, great point about "It's not your fault" making you feel powerless and out of control. I *was* fairly desperate to hear that from other people (even in some of my other posts here), but I guess I'm realizing that nobody can possibly tell me "it's not your fault" and me be satisfied with that.

I think the therapist is trying to help me move beyond the question of fault. Not to overquote her too much here, but I think she was trying to help me take back some of the control when we talked about the two things being true simultaneously: that I could have made some bad choices AND have something terrible happen to me. If I'm a passive actor in the whole evening, it negates that I did make some choices that put me at risk, which both rings false to myself (because I know what I did better than anybody) and makes me something of a bystander in my own life (lack of control). What I've been struggling with is that I think I've been trying to blame *something* because it feels neater if it's more clearly defined, but blame is not particularly helpful to my dealing with this (in part because the most likely place I would go to blame is to *me*).

/therapy schmerapy musings

kali, it is interesting (uncanny? frightening?) how much your gradual realization of what had happened resonates with me. I went from being horrified with myself for what I thought was drunkenly cheating on my husband to getting a growing suspicion that, as you said "something was not right."
sidda-- i'm just nodding, nodding, nodding away at what you said in yr post!

i'm feeling a lot better about everything... i think about it every day, but not in a sad way. it's just something that i'm always aware of, at every minute. that sounds a lot worse than it really is, i'm not sure how to explain it... i wonder if this ever goes away? i imagine at some point it'll vanish from my mind for days or weeks at a time. but when?

i've been dating this girl, we've been going to bars, and i am so paranoid about my beer. i have one eyeball trained on it at all times, and sometimes i wonder if i'm over reacting.
Hi guys

I had this horrible dream a night ago where my ex (the rapist) broke into my house, held me at gunpoint and shot me. It sounds really silly, but in the dream, I felt exactly how I felt after he raped me. I was humilated, and I was sobbing. My dreams are really vivid, so it was very disturbing to me. I'm thinking that the dream could be my mind's way of trying to get me to deal with the rape? Cause besides for talking about it here, I kinda just keep it to myself and pretend like it didn't happen.

The dream has gotten me to think more about the rape and it bothers me so much. I hate him so much for what he did to me and for thinking it was ok. And I hate myself even more for accepting it at the time. It's horrible to think that someone I loved and put all my trust into, could do something so hurtful. What kills me even more is that I've moved on, I have a wonderful, adoring bf who would never hurt me, and I shouldn't have to think about him anymore. I DONT want to think about him anymore, but I'm going to. Even twenty years from now, he'll always be my ex, the one who raped me. I don't want to give him that much head space.

I'm sorry to rant, I really think I need to see a therapist about this, honestly.
QUOTE(cstars124 @ May 16 2007, 08:24 AM) *
I'm sorry to rant, I really think I need to see a therapist about this, honestly.

None of this sounds silly to me. It is not uncommon for suppressed feelings to rise after you start talking about trauma. It is all the emotions that you were not able to explore before rising up. MAybe now you are in a safe enough place to deal with it all.
If you want to find a therapist, go for it. If you can't find one that you can afford, I might be able to help if you want.

I just phoned my mum (who knows about the abuse my siblings did to me) and asked her to let them know I want to confront them about the abuse.I'm starting to self harm again and to have thoughts on suicide.I can't handle this alone anymore.
I don't know if I should speak to a rape counsler or if I can just talk to a regular therapist.

It's funny but as I was typing, "therapist" i realized it was "the rapist" Pretty scary.
hey cstars-- i swear i read somewhere that andrea dworkin wrote something about the rapist / therapist connection. kind of creepy, no?

anyway, i've been seeing a sexual assualt crisis counselor and it is SO much different than "regular" therapy. she gave me a lot of worksheets to do, exercises to complete, and so on. it's made me feel so much more proactive than typical therapy, where it's more about talking, or... something? sorry, my brain's a little fried right now.

ok, so, i found this agency through the emergency room social worker, but i bet if you called the rainn hotline they can refer you to an agency closer to you. or you can call the agency i'm going to (it's in long beach, california, but they have a really good hotline and lots of resources). here's the number: SACA (sexual assault crisis center) 562-989-5900. that's the number for the hotline, so they have counselors answering the phones.

datagirl, same for you-- you shouldn't have to do this alone!! i was in a session with my counselor on wednesday, and i really, really realized how much seeing someone had helped me. honestly, if i hadn't done that (and posted on here, for sure), i really think i'd still be chalking it up to a drunk accident on my part, blaming myself, feeling super-ashamed, y mas y mas.

I feel like it would really help for me, and I don't want to sound super hypocritical, but I just feel like I wouldn't belong there, ya know? Like because I dated my rapist for two years and knew him (or thought I did) pretty well, and we had done what HE did to me numerous times before...ya know?
((cstars)) ((datagirl))
Just to chime in, I highly recommend talking to someone - whether that person is a sexual assault counselor or a "traditional" therapist. I think the main thing is finding someone who you feel compatible with and whose style works for you. My therapist (as she told me upfront) tends to focus on giving me more concrete tools for dealing with stuff rather than a lot of talking, which works for me.

cstars, even though I had a very supportive experience talking with the advocate from my local sexual assault crisis center, I had some similar issues with not necessarily feeling comfortable or like I wouldn't belong in sessions at that center for long-term stuff. I had actually been thinking about therapy before the assault, for relationship issues and such, so for me it made more sense to go that route. But again, everybody's different. You might try out one or the other and see how you feel, if you can swing it.
At least with regards to the sexual assault crisis centers in Illinois, like the one that I work at, we take a victim-centered feminist philosophy to counseling. Translation: just b/c a person has been sexually assaulted it does not equal a menal illness. Rape Trauma Syndrome is a normal reaction to an abnormal situation. I like that approach to counseling, at least for RTS, as opposed to the medical model where there has to be a diagnosis. This is not to discount the fact the sometimes there are existing pathologies that need diagnosing and treatment. Especially concerning PTSD and the like.

Anyway, cstars, if a rape crisis counselor would not be aware that the situation you described is not at all uncommon, then that person should not be doing that job. You deserve all the care, treatment and respect that you want.
I was not raped. I was, however, in an abusive relationship for two years. It was the most awful two years of my life. We started out alright, but by about 6 months, he started getting REALLY mad over tiny stuff. He'd scream at me relentlessly. Then he started belittling me, awhile after that. He would scream at me and shake me, in public, no less, and no one would do anything about it. I had one friend who he did that in front of, and she yelled at him, and he stopped doing it in front of her... for a while. Then he started doing it in public again. I'd yell back, but he'd convince me that I had no right to be yelling at him. After the shaking, came the slapping, and then after slapping came hitting. He'd tell me that I deserved it, and that I couldn't get any better than him, so it wasn't any use to leave him. And I believed it. He'd always say "I'm breaking up with you" just to hear me beg him not to, some sick power trip thing he had. The end finally came for me, one day when he was screaming at me about something tiny, I had spoken to one of my guy friends or something, and he didn't like that, so he shoved me on the ground, knelt behind me and put me in the 'Im going to snap your neck' position (you know, one hand under your chin, one over your head, and if you pull the right way, it will snap.) I knew then that I HAD to get out of that 'relationship', whether I could get anyone better or not. So I waited for the next time he pulled his "I'm breaking up with you" routine and I simply said "okay". I was the one who was in power. HE begged ME not to leave him. I did. I held firm and kept saying "No". He said he was coming over to my house, so I called my best friend, AliBy and my very large, very protective guyfriend DarShell and told them what he was doing, and they both came to my rescue, the asshat didn't stand a chance. He tried to contact me a few times after that, but I always ignored him. It's been a few years since that. He was my first boyfriend, and I was 15 and 16 during the time, so it was especially traumatizing to me. From what I last heard, he can't hear the name LustfullyPink without cringing, and he hasn't had a date since we broke up. (He wasn't attractive, at all.) I have problems trusting men that I don't know, so it's hard for me to date outside my circle, but I know that with time, and talking about it that will heal, and I will be able to talk to all different types of men. I have no problems with women friend wise or sexuality wise, but as I am an un-outed bisexual living in the heart of the bible belt I can't really 'get with' a woman right now anyway. It feels really good to get all of this off of my chest.

What does everyone thing about the anti-rape condom? Do you think it's a life saver, or it could make it harder to survive a rape. I think that it could go either way. If the man trying to force himself on you is a pussy, the second those teeth sink into his penis, he'll be running the other directon faster than god knows what, but if he is drunk, or something else is preventing him from slightly feeling the pain, would it not just piss him off and make him want to attack? If this is too painful a topic, feel completely free not to discuss, or if there is some other board for this that you would like to redirect me to, then feel free to do that, also. I would really like an opinion, or perhaps an actual expierance with it.
Lustfullypink, welcome to the thread. I am glad to hear that you got out of such a terrible situation.Healing takes time but it sounds like you are on your way.
As for the anti-rape condom, do you mean Rapex? My intitial response to it was that calling it an anti-rape device is a misnomer. For the device to work, a rape has to occur. Meaning that the penis has to be in a vagina for it to bite down. And I have to say that while I hate using the word "pussy" to describe someone being weak (my pussy is quite strong and lovely thank you biggrin.gif ) I think any man who has plastic teeth biting onto him will stop what he is doing.
The real drawback to Rapex is that it doesn't prevent rape, it punishes. It does not encourage the end of a rape culture, not does it even prevent or punish for all forms of rape (oral, anal, etc.) I think that Rapex was created by a desperate person with the best of intentions but I would never use it.

When it comes to fighting back leading to more violence in rape, there are so many conflicting stories and theories, no one knows for sure. It comes down to person by person. I could never tell someone that they should always fight back b/c I know that if someone pulls a gun on me, I will be much less likely to fight back than if someone grabs my hair. Some people who fought back are subjected to severe inguries but are not raped and are satisfied with that. Other people who are unable to fight back survive a rape. It just comes down to what is a person prepared to do and capable of doing. I took a self-defense class a few weeks ago and I now know that in an attack situation, my best defense will be running and screaming. If it comes down to it being b/w him and I, I would rather it be him that got hurt not me but I would rather just get the hell out of there all together.
I'm glad to finally hear someone elses opinion. I've never been able to ask anyone about what they actually thought about that before. smile.gif Perhaps I should change my phrasing for a weak male. I never actually thought of 'pussy' as a name for weak as derogatory, not that I don't think it is, but that I just didn't put much thought into it. Thanks for enlightening me to that smile.gif
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