Jun 21 2006, 02:21 PM
Thank you all SO much for your comments, experiences, and advice. We're doing a bit better, actually. He had a rather long talk with family and friends about the issue, and is now seeking help on his own because of his awareness to the root cause of the problem. He broke down and cried with me for the first time in three years. We talked a great length about our pasts, and understand each other a hell of a lot better now, so I feel. We've rearranged a couple things in our lives (physically and mentally) to better our relationship. We've set up code words to use in certain situations to help us understand each other better when words fail us.
This is not to say that I am not still worried, nor do I expect him to be completely rid of this issue overnight. But I feel strongly that he is doing the right thing for himself, and he told me he'd do whatever it takes to make himself the man he wants to be, which is not the angry man he becomes.
You are all so caring. Thank you, thank you, thank you, so much.
Jun 21 2006, 02:38 PM
I hope things work out for you! At least he wants to change and sees the problem. The sad thing is I don't think my ex meant to be so abusive. I think in his mind he was treating me ok, he just never took the time to double check that in MY mind I was being treated ok.
That is why I love Mr. Pixie so much. He is determined to make sure he always treats me right and he talks to me every night and asks how my day went and asks if there anything he needs to do to make me happier. It sounds cheesy, but it's very important. He believes that if he fulfills my needs the way he is supposed to then he will never have to worry about me cheating. And I really think he is right. I haven't had the urge to even look at other men since he has come into my life.
Jun 22 2006, 11:39 AM
I have a question for everyone. And i always have to ask these types of questions cause I have such a hard time reading guys.
I recently met this boy. He's 19 years old, which isnt bad cause i'm only going to be 22 in less than a month, so I'm not that much older. And he's a virgin. Which is fine, I don't have an issue with that at all. We started hanging out alot and recently we started getting down and it's incredible. We're not having sex yet, although it has been discussed. But, not to sound incredibly lame, but he makes me feel so good. And not in just the sexual sense. The way he touches me inbetween sex stuff makes me feel sooooooo sexy. I love it! And he loves to do stuff to me. He doesn't even want me to do anything to him. He says that he gets his enjoyment out of watching me enjoy myself. So, needless to say, I feel like I could totally see myself in a realtionship with him.
However, here's the problem. He's only in my town for the summer for an internship. And he lives 6 1/2 hours away. And he goes to school even further away. I can't tell if he's into me at all, like if he wants to be in a realtionship after the summer ends. And I've been really nervous to discuss it with him, because I don't want to make things weird while he's here, or completely turn him off to me. I definitely wouldn't have an issue with a long distance thing. I think we could totally give it a shot. In the past week or so, he brought up the fact about him coming to visit me after he leaves. But I don't know if he's saying it because it's what he thinks I expect him to say, or if he really means it. And I know alot of me not being sure of his intentions has to do with my own insecurities cause I've never had a healthy, functional realtionship, but I really don't wanna screw this up. And recently, I told him that we probably shouldn't have sex because I was afraid that I would get way too attached and want something more out of the realtionship. And he didn't say anything. And I asked him if he was weirded out by the question and he said no, and i asked him if i probably should have not said anything and he said no. So, I'm just extremely confused. I'm thinking that he wouldn't be in it just for the booty if he's not really getting anything, right? I always tend to screw shit up with guys that I REALLY like because I get way too honest with them about how I feel. I just don't know what to do. Especially because I'm dealing with someone younger and with less experience. Any suggestions?
I'm soo sorry for the long post..
Jun 22 2006, 01:40 PM
cstars124, why is he still a virgin? Religion? Shy boy?
I say just have fun with him, don't say too much that isn't appropriate for the moment, but if you really feel like you need to express yourself...do so, just don't hold any expectations. Have fun with him, enjoy the sensuality, no sex if your too emotionally attached, or have good sex, protected sex, and let him go.
Jun 22 2006, 01:51 PM
say or do what you want to say or do. don't hold shit in for the sake of saving him awkwardess. you're just as important a part of the situation as he is.
Jun 22 2006, 02:24 PM
He's still a virgin cause he said he really hasn't met anyone that he really wanted to do it with. And he's not a "typical guy" that just wants to screw anyone. He just wasn't into rushing into things.
And I try REALLY hard to just have fun and not stress over it. But the more I hang out with him, the more I realize how much I like him. And I think this is gonna end badly.
Jun 22 2006, 03:21 PM
stillveryangry, you can drive a person away saying and doing whatever the fuck you want to do. I think what's more important is compassion, TACT, and respect.
cstars124, don't start thinking that it's gonna end badly because it will, but only cause' you think that. So, maybe you should back off, compose yourself, and then start having fun with him again. You can't control it, cstars. Let things unfold naturally. If it's too painful, stop.
Jun 22 2006, 03:32 PM
cstars, I used to be afraid that I would "say too much" or something that would drive men away. What I finally realized.....the man who was perfect for me, didn't mind me telling my thoughts and feelings openly. If you can't be yourself, then you can't really build a relationship. Just talk it over with him. I bet it won't drive him away at all.
Jun 22 2006, 03:54 PM
You know the same goes for women, I know a guy that is a 25 year old virgin for the same reason that cstars guy is still a virgin. Well, this guy finally found a girl that was really cool and down to earth, but he didn't use tact and he didn't reveal things---> at the right time. I don't know how else to explain it, but you gotta be cool. That's what I used to tell him. But he didn't listen, and he's still a virgin. She basically got weirded out.
For me, I let time tell, I don't wear my heart on my sleeve, I don't reveal too much too soon. When the time is right, you just know. Otherwise, people get turned off, men that told me too much too soon turned me off.
Jun 22 2006, 04:37 PM
I am new to this site - but have a really important question for all of you. I started dating this guy who is pretty wonderful. A little less than 6 months ago, he broke up with his fiance, they were together for 5 years. This guy is great, we hit it off immediately, he liked me, I liked him, we get along etc. She started calling him, telling him she wants him back. She doesn't know about me I don't think. She left him, moved far away and broke the engagement. Now she is telling him she regrets everything, made the biggest mistake of her life and would move back immediately if he gives her the ok. Her father has even called him, and she is non stop contacting him. He wants to give it another try because he doesnt want to wonder what if for the rest of his life. He wants me in his life still, because he thinks I am great...my question is if I remain friends with him, when my heart wants more, if things work out really well then I am left in the cold, alone and upset. If I remain his friend, things don't work out I am there for him, he could realize that he wants to try things with me. Am I silly to think that there is possibility? The most important question is if i play the friend role, it will eventually hurt even more when she moves back and he doesnt have time for me anymore - if I am always there as his friend - will he look at me as more of a friend if things dont work out? Should I just walk away from the situation letting him know I will let you figure things out, and if things dont you know where to reach me....what would you do?
PLEASE HELP ME - any help would be great as you can tell I am very confused. If someone has gone through something similar - what did you do? Also, what are the chances a broken engagement getting back together will work? That is a huge break of trust....but he is willing to try it again...
Jun 22 2006, 09:02 PM
"Should I just walk away from the situation letting him know I will let you figure things out, and if things dont you know where to reach me....".
Yes. But I wouldn't put the part about where you can reach me. You are not a doormat.
Jun 22 2006, 10:11 PM
em- awkward advice needed.
guy i work with & see all the time, have had drink with occasionally: go out w/ him & 4 others, he gets wasted, walks me to train- awkward moment, but i was drunk, and was like, so, you wanna kiss me? (nothing else to do) Then it turns into this big ordeal about how he has a girlfriend, and is really attracted to me and invited all these people out just so he could hang out with me, how his relationship is on the rocks, he wanted to get with me for over a year etc. etc. Honestly, i'm not into him, it was just a random thing, and it turned into some big stupid lame thing. I can't tell whether to be insulted or what. I was like, whatever, we'll just hang out like friends, and he's all: but i'm so attracted to you, etc, etc!
WTF? He called later that night wanting to talk and i never called him back, not really interested in pursuing the conversation, but would like to get things back to normal so it doesn't fuck up my work and social life. any ideas? argh!
Jun 23 2006, 06:07 PM
Gorgeous21, I dont' want to be mean, but you have posted your problem as REALLY important several times now, and received no response. The problem you are experiencing is that we do not know you, and you are not so much trying to particpate in the Lounge as seemingly just shout for attention. It's hard to really respond to that, in a way. I know it must be frustrating to recieve little in the way of responses, but - like CStars' guy down there, your approach is just a bit offputting here.
Have you read anyone else's posts? Have you thought that there might be help in the history of the threads you have posted in? Because there might be. And if you seemed to have paid the attention to the community that you appear to be seeking from it, you might find the responses you receive entirely different.
Not meant with a mean spirit - I just keep finding myself seeing your posts, reading a line or two, seeing that you are asking for attention without giving it in return, and finding I can't really help. Mainly because I don't know you. I know you are 21, and you describe yourself as gorgeous. Not much to go on, and not necessarily "attractive" to a Lounge full of women not trying to hit on you.
Try to relax a bit, and get to know the Lounge, and it might be easier. You'll find this a very welcoming place, if we have a real person with something to say to us to welcome.
Awkwardg1rl - if you are not into him, there is no reason to be insulted. Don't let this matter to you, and don't behave as if it does. Not answering was probably just the right thing to (not!) do, you don't have any reason to be available to him. Nothing really happened, so don't act like it did. And if he can pretend it didn't happen and remember his girlfriend - basically, y'all are golden. No problem.
Jun 24 2006, 12:27 AM
G21--as follow up to Maimy's comment. I actually tried to respond, earlier, but didn't want to sound like your mom shaking a disapproving finger at you. The situation just seems so clear-cut, I think that's why there was a silence following your plea for advice as much as your approach
I was in a situation with some common characteristics, but I was the woman who walked away and someone new and much younger took the vacancy. They're together, but I'm told she is very skittish about coming in so soon after a break-up, and even casual comments about me can ruin an entire day. Not a life I would want to lead.
If this guy you're dating wants to give his relationship another chance, clinging to him will just get ugly and weird for all three of you. Step back now, go do your own thing to the best of your ability and consider any friendship as something that could only be possible in the distant future, if ever. If they have been together a long time, they have things to sort through, and you are, in a sense, the other woman right now. If you keep your cool and they don't end up together, you haven't burned the bridge.
A broken engagement may seem like a major betrayal to you at this point, but it's minor and survivable drama in a relationship compared to things like emotional abuse and infidelity. We don't have any insight into why she called it off. Her reasons may have been rational.
This is one of those times when keeping your cool and standing back is the only way to come out of it in one piece. You asked for advice.
Jun 24 2006, 04:05 AM
anything new? I think that staying a virgin for someone special is such an adorable idea and that however it turns out, you can't really regret anything. so... i hope things turn out for the better. he sounds like a keeper.
and G21- you've got a tough one there. i think your best bet is to try to stay clear-headed; but emotions cloud things up pretty easily, which may be why you're still confused. take care of yourself first, ok? anyways, i sound like a horoscope, so i'll stop.
Jun 25 2006, 10:10 AM
He does sound like a keeper! I want to keep him!!
We hung out the other night and after fooling around, he said something about going down on me (which he hasn't done either)right before he leaves as a way for me to remember him and I said that I would remember him regardless. And then, I don't know if it was truthful or to kinda protect him or me or what, he was saying how he would probably forget me as soon as he leaves. That kinda ruined the rest of the evening. I don't know what the hell that was all about.
But we discussed the whole "using" factor and established the fact that we're not using each other, however, maybe it's because I've been screwed over with this kind of situation before but i find a hard time distinguishing between using someone and screwing around with someone you have no interest in dating. Is it just me?
Jun 25 2006, 04:11 PM
Jun 25 2006, 11:00 PM
"And then, I don't know if it was truthful or to kinda protect him or me or what, he was saying how he would probably forget me as soon as he leaves."
Ummmmmm......this guy just wants to get into your pants,sister.
Jun 25 2006, 11:44 PM
I had unprotected oral sex the other day where the guy came in my mouth and now I am worried about HIV. I have swollen glands and diarrhea today and I NEVER get sick. Should I be worried and what can I do?
Jun 26 2006, 06:31 AM
"Ummmmmm......this guy just wants to get into your pants,sister"
i would be thinking the same thing, except we're not having sex and he does stuff to me. I don't do anything to him. I honestly don't think it's just for the booty.
Jun 26 2006, 08:01 AM
While it is highly unlikely that if you got infected you would be having symptoms this soon...if you are concerned that it is a possibility..get yourself tested. Planned parenthood or the health department will probably do it for free.
Jun 26 2006, 09:37 AM
cstars, it sounds to me like the boy is just a little immature and hasn't figured out how to talk about expectations with you. it's a reasonable thing to want to keep things casual if you're going to be separating at the end of the summer, but that was an awful way for him to communicate it. don't be afraid to call him out on that kind of thing, like "wow, that's disappointing. i think keeping it casual is fine, but i don't forget people i spend a lot of time having fun with." then you'll feel like you were clear with him instead of being pissed or worried about what he said, and he has the opportunity to grow up and have a real conversation with you about expectations.
just my two cents, sounds like you are having fun other than that incident, so good luck keeping it going!
Jun 26 2006, 10:03 AM
cstars, that sounds like something dumb i'd say in an awkward moment. i probably would have meant it in a joking way but it would come out wrong. later i'd be like doh! why did i say that???
i'd just tell him that my feelings were hurt when he said that, and what did he mean by it?
Jun 26 2006, 11:49 AM
yea...that's what i'm hoping. Cause he said something one time about laughing "about me" when he goes home. And I called him on it and was like, "wtf?!?" and what he actually meant was how he laughs about stuff WE laughed at, when he gets home. And he was like, "I tend to say stuff without thinking", so I'm just hoping that this is one those times
plus, i'm dealing with a 19 year old. Not that I'm much older, but he's still a teenager.
But I appreciate everyone's input on the matter! Thanks!
Jun 26 2006, 12:06 PM
oh good lord, 19? Yeah, that explains it
Jun 26 2006, 01:04 PM
hahah...yea...he's only 19.
although, he will be 20 soon, so it's not THAT bad. Plus, I'm only 21. But I like to think i know how to handle myself in situations like this.
Jun 27 2006, 08:33 AM
yeah sorry, I didn't mean it in a mean way, but yeah, y'all are young! It's really sweet that he's a virgin and doesn't want to rush-enjoy it!
Jun 27 2006, 02:29 PM
I know you didn't mean it to be mean!
I just have to keep reminding myself that I'm dealing with someone so young, so I can't really take everything he says so seriously. Then again, he's only 19 and he's never really had a gf, so he doesn't know how to play the hard to get game, right? ugh...I hate game playing.
Jun 27 2006, 02:39 PM
yeah game playing is dumb. i am just so direct now, even though sometimes it's embarrassing.
like if my boyfriend says something and i think it's mean i'll just say right then "what do you mean?" instead of stewing over it and then yelling at him later
heh heh-that's what i usually do.
and usually-he didn't mean it like i took it. about 99% of the time it's just miscommunication.
Jun 27 2006, 03:55 PM
cstars, 19 explains it. i don't even see how I dated guys back when I was a teenager. I guess we all have to grow up, though.
Jun 28 2006, 05:17 PM
I am LIVID. LA is full of the least chivalrous and biggest assholes alive. I met a cute Jewish guy about my age (32) at a karaoke bar last Tuesday. He asked me for my email address. He emailed me the next day and asked if I wanted to go to lunch with him this week, as we both work close to one another. I said okay, and met him at a restaurant nearby today. First of all he was late, then he went on to talk about himself and his work the entire time, without asking anything about me whatsoever. He also must have mentioned at least four times about how he was underpaid. When the bill came, we both put down our cards and he said "let's split it!!!!!" To add insult to injury, the waiter came back and told me my card was rejected. The guy still didn't offer to pay, so I ended up paying with another card. Had he not asked me to lunch, I would have just brought my own and saved myself $25 which I don't have!!!!!
Jun 28 2006, 07:11 PM
Sorry, celimene, I get the part where him blabbing on and on about himself makes him a jerk, but I don't get the part about how he's supposed to buy you lunch. Are you an asshole because you didn't offer to buy *his* lunch? And how is his being Jewish relevant? I do hope his being Jewish is not relevant.
Jun 29 2006, 02:06 AM
always lurking, but had to come out to say this: I will def be back to see where this goes...interesting points berenguela. i also have a question, were you ordering a $25 dollar meal because you assumed he was going to pay? had you known that he wasnt going to offer to pay would you have opted for something less expensive? (just curious) this is interesting...(ok, back to lurking)
ETA: Obviously you *did* order a $25 dollar meal under the assumption that he was going to cover the tab...just noticed where you mentioned that *you* did not have $25 bucks to be spending on such a meal...oh...
ETA (again) I would never put my card down unless I really had intentions on paying the tab, which obviously you didn't. So to me, you played yourself...(not to sound rude or mean...maybe the way you worded it is not how you meant it. because to me, it sounds like you expected him to pay (maybe because he asked you to go, i can see that a little) but now you seem pissed because he wanted to go dutch, which maybe he should have/ could have clairified that from the jump and maybe you would have ordered within your budget) either way, i think its on you for trying to get that meal under the impression that it was going to be at *his* expense instead of yours...
Jun 29 2006, 12:27 PM
next time meet for coffee first.
Jun 29 2006, 03:33 PM
I am going to have to agree with everyone celimene. while most guys do pay on the first date, and frankly its not particularly attractive when they want to go dutch especially when THEY asked you out, I would never go into something expecting them to pay. however girls, it is well known that whoever asks the other person out is expected to pay.
berenguela-dont start with being all sensitive about the jewish thing. honestly, i really dont think anyone here would say something so ignorant and it just is annoying ANd insulting when people try to find insult where none was intended and frankly its why liberals get a bad name.
Jun 29 2006, 05:12 PM
Believe me, ya'll, with my luck with LA men, I did not EXPECT him to pay, but rather expected him not to, and that there would be no second date, which sadly was the case. Secondly, I don't appreciate the way you girls sound like you are attacking me and not supporting me (even if that is not what was intended), which is why I don't normally come to this particular thread (I have had this experience in the past). I do NOT think a woman should EVER pay on the first date, when the man ASKED her out. Call me traditional, whatever. I ordered a salad and a glass of wine, for god's sakes, not the fish special, and left a good tip, so I hardly think what the cost of my order was is relevant. Next time I'll just have water...sheesh. And I only mentioned he's Jewish because I'm not, nothing more, but then you girls are obviously already ready to jump all over me, so I guess you would assume some prejudice on my part. I was venting, not seeking your advice. I'm 32. If a man can't pay for a first date (especially when it is lunch), then he is immature and disrespectful. I'm not in my 20's, not in college, not in that place anymore. Chivalry and feminism can and must exist in my world.
Jun 29 2006, 05:12 PM
Oh, and fyi, Katiebelle, thanks for supporting me.
Jun 29 2006, 07:31 PM
The inviter pays, whoever that may be. If he asked you out, he pays. That's not sexism, that's ETIQUETTE.
Celimene, I didn't read anything into your mentioning his being Jewish particularly. I mention attributes that are relevant to me; Jewishness is obviously either an asset or something of note to you. It didn't occur to me you'd find it a negative - why go out with him, if so, when clearly you knew about that. It's not relevant to the story, for us readers, but if it's relevant to you it doesn't detract for me in the course of your post.
Hey, and - unrelated note: You might want to edit your profile to remove your real name. Most of us try to avoid publishing any of our IRL info, and full names are usually first on the edits list. It's all about your level of comfort, but we do get our share of numbskulls around this place.
Jun 29 2006, 07:32 PM
wait a minute here, so i shouldn't invite someone out to lunch unless i'm going to pay?
i don't think so. i just want to eat lunch with them, not buy them lunch. who made up these rules anyhow? i need to have a word with them...
Jun 29 2006, 08:16 PM
Not in my universe either, thank goodness, or I'd have no social life since its so often my idea! If it's somewhere fancy you can bet we'll have discussed if we can both even afford it before going there. I might pay for my sister or friend if I'm making more than her, though. Also for my peeps, even if you're invited to someone else's house for a meal you should bring something too. Ah well, when in Rome.
On the dating front, each to her own - personally I find it unattractive if a man does assume he is going to pay for my meal. I think if there's going to be chivalry, I want to be just as chivalrous too. But I guess things like this make it easier for each of us to find someone compatible with our own attitudes - I won't be hogging the men who should be dating Celimene instead, or vice versa.
Jun 29 2006, 08:34 PM
in a date situation yes pepper. not if its a friend. this has nothing to with going out and hanging with friends, which i assume you are talking about ven. if a girl asks a guy out she should pay, and vice versa. maimy is right-its etiquette. it just so happens that the guy usually does the asking, but as we all know thats changing.
Jun 29 2006, 10:03 PM
Nope, Katie, I was talking about dating as well - if I want to spend time with a man that's what I want to do, not pay for his food like he's my son. To me, it's a mutual decision between two responsible adults (and usually involves negotiation) so whoever asks is immaterial.
I know some people don't like to be open about money (or sex, or politics, or religion) but I can't have a friendship much less a relationship without open communication about those kinds of things. Aside from anything else I'm from a poor background and there's no point in pretending to be wealthier than I am.
But like I said, each to their own. What's good ettiquette for me (negotiation, consensus, mutual contribution) isn't for you. I'm probably in a totally different social group from you, not to mention a different country - I seem to remember from the bust ettiquette thread that ettiquette is regional, isn't it? Even here in my city we all seem to have different ideas about who ought to be doing what!
Jun 29 2006, 10:45 PM
ahhh good point, i actually wasnt aware you were from a different country. hey whatever floats anyones boat!
Jun 30 2006, 12:23 AM
i certainly was talking about dating. i don't expect anyone to pay for me, i do think it's nice if they offer, or if i offer, or if i offer and they refuse, etc etc. all that politeness etc. but i sure as heck don't expect anyone to pay for me and i won't pay for them just because i invited them out either. seems to me like one could lose a valuable chance to spend some time getting to know someone else just because one happened to be between paycheques at that moment. i won't be limiting myself like that anytime soon.
Jun 30 2006, 12:56 AM
celimene, I didn't mean to be a smartass w/ that comment. I really think coffee is a great idea for a first date b/c it's quick and cheap. as in, if you don't like the A-hole you can be done w/ the date after your coffee is finished (which can be really fast if you like coffee). plus, it's cheap so if you do get stuck w/ the bill, you're only out a couple of bucks (and no tip required usually).
Jun 30 2006, 12:05 PM
Okay, now I feel better. Thanks for all your posts!
Jun 30 2006, 03:32 PM
I was talking about dating too. I couldn't imagine expectng someone to pay on a first date --- if they offer, that's nice and I may well accept.
celimene, I certainly take you at your word when you say the jewishness was irrelevant. I didn't *think* you meant anything by it but I have heard people whom I had thought were perfectly lovely equate Jewish as cheap as if it were natural and I did want to make sure --- it was a genuine question, not a rhetorical question.
Jun 30 2006, 05:21 PM
Pepper, if you suggest meeting for lunch, that's one thing. But if you INVITE someone to lunch, that's your check. The difference is "Hey, we should get together" versus, "Hey I wanna take you out." This plays with friends, family, dating, whatever. I'm not buying every time I initiate a lunch together either, heh!
The first time we ever went out, kog3100 actually headed this off at the pass by emailing me before the Big Day (we were long distance even then, so there was time to communicate plenty). He said, "I'd be honored if you would allow me to pay for the date, as you are driving so far to meet me" (it was over 100 miles then). On only a few occasions after that did it even come up - once or twice, I'd stipulate I wanted to pay, say for his birthday or whatever, and once or twice he'd do the same. Between us, it's had zero to do with gender, but etiquette *has* had its place in a lot of ways, and simple equity too at times. We're not really financially lopsided, so we always found ways to keep everybody happy.
Jun 30 2006, 06:00 PM
Aaaah, I get it now. Hence the confusing conversation I had with a Parisian guy once that went something like this:
Him: do you want cake or coffee or something?
Me: yes, lets. I think we should go to that place there
(we go to the place, get served, start eating)
Him: (gesturing to the cake and coffee) I invite you.
I've never really thought about it but I suppose here, "I want to take you" to X is a teensy bit red-flaggish to me, unless it's to something which is theirs alone (as in I want to take you to meet my family, I want to take you to see the symphony I'm playing in). I'm not all that likely to spend time with people who want to take charge of me like that when they don't even know me.
Taking people to things, treating them, is something you do with people you know well, for me.
So it's only really come up when I've been in Europe, where I try to follow their ettiquette - it's all I invite you, well this time I invite you, etc. But then again I pretend to be married over there, because the male/female relations are often so different to what I'm used to.
Jun 30 2006, 07:23 PM
Heh, I guess "take" is a bit of an interesting way to put it, yeah. But whatever the phrasing, if you tell someone you want to get together, that's not so much an invitation - it's when an event or whatever is "yours," as you say, and you couch it that way, you're offering something as opposed to just planning a get-together. I like to think most *invitations* are conscious, too! If someone says "come with me to X" and we go, and I can tell from the tone of the conversation etc. that it's just two people out for dinner, I wouldn't be all stickler-ish about "But you INVITED ME!" if the check came and they didn't pounce upon it ...