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QUOTE(p_176 @ Apr 30 2008, 07:51 PM) *
without going into detail, i have a sick family member. the situation is stressing the other family members ,including me. i feel like the stress and anger my other family members are going through is being taken out on me, which makes me feel taken for granted and not want to help out as much as i can. how can i best deal with this problem?
thanks for your feedback.

The best way to deal with the problem? Suck it up. This isn't about you, it's about your relative, who doesn't need to be dealing with those kinds of problems right now (or have to sense that something is wrong if they don't have a direct role in the drama). Focus on what's best for him/her.

I'm a caregiver to an elderly woman who lives with her son and has 3 other kids scattered around the country. The son and the other kids were going through some drama recently, but they all decided to let it go for the sake of their mother, who is dying right now. Unfortunately the son is playing the victim and prolonging the conflict, and I feel really bad that his dying mother has to be exposed to such a toxic environment. I'm hoping that when all the kids visit next week that the son will just own up to what he did so my patient can die peacefully around the people she loves.
hellotampon - thanks, yea - i also talked with someone i know who has been through something similar. i'm focusing on the sick relative more than the negative people in the family. not only is it not about me (the situation and the negativity), but the negative people, as much as they love the sick relative, they still regard the relative being sick as a huge imposition and inconvenience. this is not my problem! so i basically ignore them :-)
I've gone through it, too, p_176 & you're doing the right thing. Ignore the asshats & focus on the person that needs the help.

I have now not only been uninvited, I've been officially de-friended on MySpace. I think that the glitch that caused a friend fuck-up a few weeks ago pissed her off. It shifted her from the main page to the second. So now I'm un-friended. Whatever.
AP, consider it a blessing in disguise. what teenage adolescent BS. i had that happen to me too w/a IRL friend who was a "friend" on myspace. de-friending me was the way i learned she did not want to be friends with me anymore. immaturity is the name of the game. chica was crazy though. so it was a good thing our friendship ended.
oh god, the de-friending thing.... I have gotten kinda bummed about that before, but then I think about the reason I have people in my top 20... I refuse to have more than 20 friends on the front page, because Its just too much - and I basically have the people that I interact with the most IRL there. (IRL also referring to emailing, IMing etc on a regular basis) end of story. one of my sisters in law got really bummed at me because I took her off the top 20 and left the other one on. But the one I left on is a regular myspacer and that's how we communicate. The first one is hardly ever on.

I love myspace as a tool, but those kinds of things can get silly. however, if I had a significant other and I wasn't his first friend, I'd be kinda bummed. (ok, we'll I'd be willing to be behind a family member or his band, but still, you get the drift)

ahhh, the information age....
It's just so retarded. We'd even talked about how petty & small it was to de-friend somebody just because you aren't getting along when one of her hillbilly friends did it to her. So now she's doing it to me. Asshat.

She's been my best friend since I was nineteen. My BEST FRIEND. We've only had one real falling out & that was when we got drunk & I told her not to marry her newly ex-husband. I didn't/don't remember doing that, but she was chilly with me for months until she finally told me about it & we got it all out. I have *done* for this woman. And now she's acting like a kid. I didn't intentionally move her, MySpace did. I did decide that I'd start moving the friends around because I got tired of looking at the same photos every time I logged on, but it's nothing *personal*.
One of my girl friends is getting married this weekend. And although her fiance' is cool sometimes, I'm noticing some very controlling behaviors from him lately. Like conversations with her are usually taken over by him. He interrupts and over talks her or anyone else involved. When the bridal party was trying to get information and give suggestions about some of the wedding planning, he totally jumped in the convo and told the bride-to-be to do whatever she wanted to do because it's her day (which we all know) and he made it seem as if we should just shut up and do whatever the bride says. Ridiculous. He's been showing a side of himself the last few weeks that I do not care for. I hope that this is not who he really is. Cuz if so, she's in for a world of misery. I'm hoping its just stress talking through him.

Some of the other ladies have been around the couple a lot more than I have; but they all say the same thing - he is controlling and obnoxious. Not to mention greedy as hell when it comes to food. I pray that after this week he will calm his azz down.
The person I'm about to slam isn't a friend, he's my brother. But I didn't know of any other appropriate thread to put this in, so here goes:
I don't give a rat's ass if something terrible is said "in jest". There are some things you just don't joke about.
My brother is awkward, doesn't know how to act around girls, etc.
Well, today when he was taking our 17 yo cousin to summer school, he said something along these lines: "I'm the last of the bloodline, so if I can't get someone to have a baby with me, I'll rape a girl to try to get her pregnant."
That is not something to joke about. I'd like for him to say that in front of someone who has been raped, maybe he'll get the shit stomped out of him.
I can't be civil to him now. I just can't. Is that petty? I have ALWAYS had a problem with statements like this, whether or not it was said as a joke. You just don't joke about some things. Rape is a very real, very frequent occurrence. Seriously, am I overreacting? I don't think I am.
I don't think you're overreacting, j.

I've been in a similar situation, though, and like you, was just speechless and stunned- LeBoy has a group of friends, one in particular, that I really don't like. LeBoy tends to be the butt of jokes in their group and the friend I don't like made up this little song "Anally-raping [LeBoy's name]"- those are pretty much the lyrics to the song- that he and the other guys sing, sometimes in very public places. I didn't know about it until a couple years ago when they sang it at our housewarming party in front all the other guests, including my mother (a survivor.) I was absolutely livid, but it was over quickly after a couple of lines and I didn't know what to say. The kicker is that this guy's wife is a survivor of a gang rape, and is very open about it, so how he thinks/gets away with thinking rape is amusing, I do not know. She was at the party and I was too shocked to notice her reaction.

I haven't heard of any instances if them singing it since then, but I've vowed to take action if I ever do. mad.gif

I guess I'd sit your brother down and tell him that rape isn't something he should joke about ever, and that you certainly hope he was joking when he said it in the first place.

ETA: LeBoy just laughs uncomfortably when they sing it. I know it's not something he finds funny- he would never joke about something like that himself, but I think he doesn't know how else to react.
Oh God, I'd fucking blow my top, with both of those situations. I really would.
Oh gross. Male privilege in action, up close and personal, "We joke about rape because it's 99.99999 percent likely it will never happen to us!! Ha ha ha!" Fucking Ha. I have no advice, just commiseration, although I would probably smack a younger sibling who thought that shit was funny. Well, no, I wouldn't - I would avoid avoid avoid. I'm so sorry you have to deal with that shit.

How about breaking up with friends? Do I need to make a statement, or can I just let things taper off naturally? It sucks, because it's someone who still makes me laugh, as well as my only non-sibling link to my past, as she is my oldest friend, but damn. The bad is outweighing the good at this point, in that she pisses me off more than makes me happy. She's become an alcoholic and being around her triggers many, many crazy mean drunk grandma mental shit. Every time we get together - time of the day be damned - it's less than an hour before she's asking about going to get a drink. It sucks monkey balls since she just moved to my city, after about six years of living in different states, and I was so excited to have her here, but her drinking stresses me out. I don't want to be the caretaker here - I don't want to worry about her leaving my house at 2 AM, totally wasted and refusing to take a cab. I just don't. I could try being assertive about it, I know, and lay down some rules for my house, but I just don't seem to care enough.

It isn't just the drinking, lest I be that friend who abandons people at the first sign of trouble. I think we've sort of grown away from each other, so it's likely she senses that as well. We just don't mesh anymore. We never really did, I don't think. We became friends when I was seeking self-centered friends who would make no demands for me to share my insides, you know? I've changed, but she hasn't, and I don't sense that she's terribly interested in me as I am now. I don't trust her with intimacy of any kind, if only because every.single.conversation we have must be turned back around to her. I don't think she actually listens to what I say. She also only calls me when she needs something, and never responds to my email.

Actually, reading that, I feel better about this. I don't think I'm being an asshole if I just sort of let things taper off, but I'm open to that interpretation. I guess I'm comfy being an ass in this case.
That's fucked up about that cousin. I'd have to avoid him, too. If I didn't I'd wind up using the patented AP verbal charm on him every time I saw him & it wouldn't be pretty.

Sometimes you gotta let people go, Lucizoe. I know it sucks, but if she isn't an at least kinda positive person in your life, the cargo muct be jettisoned. In the past seven years, I've had to drop M, J, C, S, H, & D because I didn't want the drama. The alcohol, the drugs, the shady characters, the one night stands, the abusive relationships, etc. I only talked to M for the first time in five years because she's really far away & can't touch me.
Thanks y'all, I'm glad I'm not the only one that would get pissed. Everyone around me was treating me like I was overreacting. I haven't spoken to him since the night I heard about it ("so, have you raped anybody today? You're disgusting as hell") and I have no intention to. He needs to realize that some things are not to be joked about, because there's NO HUMOR in them.
i'm not sure if i need feedback or if i just want to vent.

how do you dump a friend?

dude, this chick is in her late 30s, extremely immature, and terribly mean. when her and i were just hanging out it was cool. but, when we add a third party or other people she will be mean to me and try to humiliate me. trying to one up me. definitely power issues. we had 1 situation where we had a disagreement and she used it to say i had issues. not really supportive. and i was gonna put distance to not be friends with her BUT she is dating one of my friends. which makes it complicated cause they are the type of couple that does everything together. argh. and part of me was secretly glad she wasn't coming out with my friend and i today, but she decided to come. which i knew would happen cause her insecurity makes it hard for her to be left out of things. i'm just hoping i don't get into an argument with her. she is not one to hear someone else's side of the argument. when she feels right about a situation, she won't let go. but, i have chosen to let go. for whatever reasons, there is just this strong power dynamic when it comes to our friendship. she tries to tell me what to do, and i in turn ignore her. blah.

i think i just am over people acting so childishly and sometimes i'm a sucka and respond in such a manner with her. lordy, give me the strength to have a teflon mind and let the things she say roll off me.
I think you're venting, venting is good. And as long as she's dating a good friend you're stuck with her. I know you'll come out on top.

I had a friend once where it was a constant competition. Boys, clothes, everything. She would actually call dibs on guys, as in, "I met him first." And she made the most backhanded, mean-spirited comments. She was a couch surfer & her couch at the time was winding down. She asked if she could stay at my place while I was out of town & felt the need to add, "Just think how much cleaner it will be when you get back!" Excuse me? If my place is so filthy then why do you want to stay there? She actually once tried to legitimize the KKK to me by saying it was initially organised to protect women. She would also tell these elaborate lies about her background; she came from a fallen old money family, she went to fancy schools, etc. She was really just trailer trash that didn't even have a GED.

Re dumping, it's not very mature, but I just stop calling/returning phonecalls, emails; no contact, period. I wish I could say, "I loved you, loved your show, but our time has come to an end. Here's your box of Rice-a-Roni, thanks for playing." But I can't. I feel like it would open it to debate if I said, "You're a shallow, competetive, passive-aggressive, lying, alcoholic, bitchy person. I don't want to be friends with you anymore." That would likely start an argument so I follow the path of least resistance.

It can backfire, though. There is one woman that will not stop trying to contact me, I assume because she's too dumb to notice that I haven't called her back in five years & thinks that there is nothing wrong. She was all up my ass after my mom died with the phonecalls & I got the last one about two weeks ago. Go figure.
thanks AP. yeah, i think i just needed to vent. and i'm not the type to complain to my good friend about her gf. that's tacky. we hungout and she only slightly annoyed me. RE: dumping...most of the friendships i've ended have been the gradual stop calling, hanging out....actually, it seems to work fine. they eventually come back into my life...not in the same way it originated...but, there's something about the comeback that i forget the issues. so i agree...the dumping is an immature thing.

i'm such a softy. i cannot hold a grudge for the life of me.
The following rant probably makes absolutely NO sense whatsoever but its the best way to describe what happened today. Unbelievably stupid.

A group of friends and the hubby and I decided we'd go out to lunch today after church. Well, two friends suggested this really nice (But hella expensive) chinese restaurant in the next town over - which is about 25 min away. Fine! We were all excited and decided to carpool since gas is so high. The single folks ended up in one car and the married folks in the other. The married carpoolers were going to follow the single carpoolers because we didn't know how to get there. THEY LEFT US on the highway going about 85mph. My husband was driving and didn't want to get a ticket so he just did the speed limit.

How about, they didnt call us until they got to the restaurant to see where we were. WTF??? If you have someone following you- you don't leave them and hope for the best. We ended up playing phone tag with these people trying to figure out how to get there with the bogus directions they'd given us. By this time we're pissed off after riding around in circles for 20 minutes. They keep calling, "where are you guys at??". UMMM hello, if you had given us proper directions we'd be there by now.

We finally get to the place and the single folks are already eating. They've had an appetizer, and were working on the main course, waiting for another dish to come out. The waiter was crappy, he pretty much ignored the married folks but catered to the other half of our party. He barely spoke to us, barely refilled our drinks and spent more time at the other end of the table. The men were livid and the 4 of us were starving while everyone else is gloating about how good their food is. The waiter had the nerve to add gratuity to our bill because our party was 8 people. Even though we were treated and served long after them.

Mmmkay, this food is alright, but it tasted like your average chinese takeout. It was certainly not worth the money we paid for it. The other half of our party got their bills and they were astronomical. Ours was like $40 for the 2 married couples, and we had alot less food- we shared 3 "family" sized entrees. By the way were just above individual sized portions. We offered to pay for the couple that rode with us. The whole thing was just a mess.

All in all it was a disappointment. The single people were acting really strange towards us when we got there. The girl that was driving asked, well why didnt you all call me and tell me to slow down?? HELLO genius, you knew we were following you - you should have slowed down anyway. That just added insult to injury. After we all ate, we went our separate ways. It was very awkward, and nobody really talked to us after it was over. We all kinda kept to our little groups.

Oh well... maybe I took it wrong. But they were being snobbish towards us this evening. Whatever. Lesson learned. One of the single girls lives about 5 minutes away from me and she invited all the people that rode with her back to her house. She usually invites all of us. I guess she didn't want us there. That's cool, would have rather been home any how.
Wow, Kon, that's shitty. Really shitty.

QUOTE(stargazer @ Jul 6 2008, 03:37 PM) *
they eventually come back into my life...not in the same way it originated...but, there's something about the comeback that i forget the issues. so i agree...the dumping is an immature thing.

i'm such a softy. i cannot hold a grudge for the life of me.

See, it's not so much a matter of holding a grudge. It's just when I'm done, I'm done. Whatever I saw in that person was invariably gone long ago & it's unlikely that they'll ever get it back.

I also have a penchant for other fuck ups with a transient nature; I almost never see them again.

Now's the first time I've ever even talked to a person I've jettisoned & I'm still not sure why other than that she's 2000 miles away, so she can't really even come back. And it's more of a "Hi, hope you're doing well" than a, "Let's be chums again" thing. I certainly don't want her back. After five years, she's still retarded.
QUOTE(auralpoison @ Jul 6 2008, 11:04 AM) *
Re dumping, it's not very mature, but I just stop calling/returning phonecalls, emails; no contact, period. I wish I could say, "I loved you, loved your show, but our time has come to an end. Here's your box of Rice-a-Roni, thanks for playing." But I can't. I feel like it would open it to debate if I said, "You're a shallow, competetive, passive-aggressive, lying, alcoholic, bitchy person. I don't want to be friends with you anymore." That would likely start an argument so I follow the path of least resistance.

I have broken up with a friend and told them *exactly* what I thought of her...granted, and maybe some would say this makes me a total chicken-shit, but it was in a letter. I guess you'd have to know the dynamic of our friendship, but after 5 years of putting up with her crap (that ended in her dumping her boyfriend of 3.5 years after cheating on him and having the nerve to ask me, "so, who are you going to be friends with now, me or him?"....obviously him, since we started dating 6 months later and are still together 7 years later, beyotch!) I had to let it out.

Wow, kon, that's totally crappy. I hate those awkward social situations that just leaving you feel like shit. I'd just leave it up to her/them to call you, and if they ask why you haven't called or why you're apprehensive to go out with them again, I'd tell her that your last outing left you with mixed feelings and you weren't sure where you stood with each other. She's the one who needs to explain herself....I assume the other marrieds feel the same way?
See, I couldn't do it in a letter, I'd feel like a total fuckin' pussy if I did. Letters also leave behind physical fodder for drama. They can be revisited again & again & again until something tips. I saw a friendship breakup once where the recipient confronted the writer in a very public, very not cool way that ended in screaming & a shoving match.

Path of least resistance. And like I said, I never run into them again. I ran into S once, my face said it all & she walked away.
QUOTE(pollystyrene @ Jul 7 2008, 11:14 AM) *
Wow, kon, that's totally crappy. I hate those awkward social situations that just leaving you feel like shit. I'd just leave it up to her/them to call you, and if they ask why you haven't called or why you're apprehensive to go out with them again, I'd tell her that your last outing left you with mixed feelings and you weren't sure where you stood with each other. She's the one who needs to explain herself....I assume the other marrieds feel the same way?

Yeah it was pretty ugly the way they did it. The other married couple was more upset than we were. But one of the girls called me this morning to apologize for how things went down. She wanted to basically know if we felt left out - I told her yes, but we were over it. It's not that serious now. I just took it as a learning experience. Everything's cool I guess. I'm not going to hold a grudge; next time we'll make sure we know exactly where a place is before we venture off there.
Okay. So the redneck stole the dog. I asked my aunt & uncle to take care of him while I was in hospital. I *specifically* asked my aunt to NOT let him take the dog. He'd finally found out that I'd changed the locks on him & I knew he'd view it as an act of aggression instead of a beginning to the setting of boundaries. So last weekend he went over & pulled his kicked puppy, "well, garsh ma'am" act & the stupid bitch gave him the dog. He's done exactly what I knew he was going to do & has dognapped Bubbles. I have all the dog's meds & stuff, I'm hoping he took him to the vet since that's what he told my aunt he was going to do. No phonecall, no nothing. He's MY dog. W could have a fuckin' porkchop in his pocket & that dog would still come to me. I don't know what to do.
AP, I hope you get your doggy back : (

I'm seeking advice. I had a very close friend in high school, who, shortly after we graduated and she went off to college, cut off contact with me. This was obviously intentional, as all of my efforts to reach her were blatantly ignored, and she was still in contact with many mutual friends who lived in our hometown.
Several *years* were spent mulling over this issue; I was deeply confused and hurt that such a close friend would just cut off ties without any explanation or obvious reasons. I'm ashamed to say I might have been a bit obsessive over it for a time. I had countless dreams about her, and most of all, I wondered what I would do or say if I ever saw her again. I've always known that a reunion would be inevitable eventually, as we do have so many mutual friends. Would I be the bigger person and be nice and cordial, or be a total bitch, or just act like I don't even see her and stick my nose up? Part of me definitely would want to do the last two, but who knows how it'll actually happen.

So six years since I've seen or talked to her, and I am now honestly over the situation. I just couldn't bare giving it anymore thought or energy. I'm even pretty damn sure why she stopped talking to me, and I'm actually okay with it. I feel pretty neutral about her, but if anything, somewhat curious. I still wonder what I would do or say if I saw her again, but nothing more than that. The last couple of years have been stress-free over this. No dreams, no attempts to contact, barely any thought or feeling towards it.

But about a month ago, I was at work (I work in a day spa) and we were putting stamps on postcards that go out every month to clients for their birthday. This is a mindless, repetitive activity that goes quickly, and I rarely stopped to look at the addressee. But the one that I did look down at was her name, and the address on it was in the neighborhood that she lives in. Also her b-day is in July, which is the b-day month we were sending them out for. Of course I was a bit jarred by this. I looked up her client file and confirmed *for sure* that it was her (same birth date, occupation, handwriting etc). Suddenly she's coming up after all this time in my work place, so at that moment, I was thinking about the issue again. Not stressing about it, just thinking. I probably thought about it the rest of the day, but I got over it again.

Until...yesterday when I was looking ahead at my schedule for next week and saw that someone had booked an appointment for her with me...yay. Needless to say, I had it moved over to another therapist. It would be nothing but awkward and nerve-wracking for the both of us. Massage is a very intimate event where both parties need to be comfortable to enjoy it. I know that it would not go well, and on top of that, she's paying good money for it, and it just wouldn't be fair. But...I will still most likely see her that day, and I'm glad that I have several days to think about it beforehand. Knowing myself, this will become less and less dramatic over the next few days, and I will come to a reasonable mind set about it.

But not just yet. I'm wondering if anyone has any opinion on what might be the best way to handle seeing her again, especially at my workplace, which is like my own little world away from personal issues like that. I just think it's cruel fate I have to be faced with her again in this setting, and not at a more neutral one, like a party or something, where I always assumed it would be. I almost want someone to tell me that it must just be fate, because it's really not likely that this situation would occur at all. She doesn't even live near the spa, and I'm not sure why she goes to it. And the fact that someone placed her with me for the massage. Just weird....Anyway, should I pretend like I didn't even know that she was coming, or should I just hide out in my room that day and try to avoid her entirely, as not to disrupt her visit at all?..or should I just confront her maturely and say that I thought it would be her, so I had them change therapists because I wanted to avoid an awkward situation? This is just all coming to a head now, because for the first time after all of these years, I'm now faced with the opportunity of seeing her again. Just not sure what to do!

Thanks for reading/considering this! I feel like I just typed a novel : P

Oh, and my bf thinks I'm nuts b/c of all this. He just thinks it's going overboard for someone I was 'just friends' with. I think boys are just different : P
humanist, i'm sorry that your friend randomly dumped you. i've been there and it's not fun. in my case, the friend who dumped me, was apparently angry with me, but did not tell me for like, a year. i have run into her once since then, and i acted like nothing had happened, so she'd get that i was not trying to be her friend again (she's a grudge-holding bitch, and from what i understand, she's lost some other friends along the way since college). in your case, since the friend who dumped you has not told you her reasons, i'd totally ignore her. let her come to you if she wants.
I dunno humanist: I think I'd try and take the higher ground. Now you know she'll be coming in, I wouldn't necessarily go out of your way to see her on the day, as that's a little dramatic in itself. I would be prepared in case you bump into her though, and maybe think of what you want to say if that happens. I think you're absolutely right about moving her to another therapist and I think it's valid if you explain why. You could then end it there, saying you have an appointment, or say anything else you feel needs saying.

I understand how you feel: I've had dreams about ex-friends, and once even threw up through nerves before meeting one. Try to think of it this way: it's 5 minutes out of your life: at worst, you leave her with an impression of your dignity about the situation, at best you could achieve some sort of closure. But do it all on your terms, it's your place of work, you don't need anything more from her at this point. Good luck.
thanks for responding, 176 & sybarite!
You both have good points-ignoring her or confronting it non-dramatically. I think what I was trying to think of before was 'nonchalant'.
It's just frustrating because it took so long to get over all of this, I finally got there, and now it comes screaming back, and I'll have to deal with it on a workday.
I actually have a party to go to Saturday night which I wouldn't be surprised to see her at, which would entirely diffuse the situation. That'll make things way easier~
I'll let ya'll know how it goes~
Humanist, sounds like a tricky situation. I'd ignore her, speak and be cordial but keep it moving. She hasn't been in your life all this time, no need to start now. Unless you really want her friendship back, that is. I'm the type of person, if you crap on me I have no further use for you. Period. Crude maybe, but it's helped me move on from friendships ending. Good luck dear!

I have an issue with some friends too. My issue is, I don't like to feel like people are using me. I don't like to feel like i'm being taken advantage of. More specifically, I don't like when people invite themselves to my home and help themselves to my stuff. For instance, a friend of mine (we'll call her F) came over yesterday and nonchalantly "told" me that she was coming over on Friday to do her laundry. Now, I've let her a few times - but this was not supposed to be an ongoing arrangement. Running appliances costs! Electricity is not cheap! We have one income! Its bad enough that we have to run the washer and dryer for our own clothes every week.

I guess I wouldn't be so pissed off if she at least brought her own laundry detergent and dryer sheets, and not wait till her entire wardrobe is filthy. We have a regular sized washer and dryer set. This is not a laundromat. We don't have the super washers and dryers. We have one set. My husband doesn't care, he's just so nice to everyone and just says thats fine. But its to a point now where she counts on us letting her come here to do her laundry. WTF was she doing with it before she met us?? We've only known her about a year and a half. She's a sweet girl, and we like hanging around her but come on dammit. I'm thinkin about OUR livelyhood here. Is she going to put in on the electric bill? Or even help replace the stuff she uses?? NO

Then there's this other friend (just got married) - he is the greediest mofo I've ever seen in my life. If you have something in your pantry or refrig. that he likes, he will literally keep going in there and eating it till its gone. We had 5 bananas on the table last time he came here... he ate 4 of them within like 10 minutes. I'm like dang were you even going to ask if we wanted some??? His wife ate the other one. My husband didn't say a word. I can't eat them so they were his that he'd bought. WTF is wrong with these people??? They come here to use the computer every week. WTF is this a laundromat /computer lab/restaurant????

I hate to be mean and evil and bitchy, but something's gotta give. I feel like we are being used. My husband doesn't see it that way. I really want to say something to these folks. SERIOUSLY. I'm about to pop trying to keep it in.
konphusion, you are definitely being used. I wish I knew what to say because I get very nervous at the thought of any confrontation but what they are doing is just not right! Hell, even my best friend who is basically like a sister to me still asks to eat stuff when she comes over. She doesn't just raid my fridge.
That would piss me off too, but there's definitely going to be confrontation and misery unless her husband stops being such a dumbass about it!
QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Jul 18 2008, 06:03 PM) *
konphusion, you are definitely being used. I wish I knew what to say because I get very nervous at the thought of any confrontation but what they are doing is just not right! Hell, even my best friend who is basically like a sister to me still asks to eat stuff when she comes over. She doesn't just raid my fridge.

I guess my pissy, "hate being used" vibes actually worked without me having to say anything last week. It will probably come up again, in which case I shall say something. LOL
So..the party was not actually on Saturday night, so I didn't see her there, but I did at work. It went as good as I could've hoped for, I guess. It's not easy to really convey the energy and all the expressions involved in this incident, but I feel pretty good about it. I walked over kind of coyly, smiling, and gave a little wave until she realized who I was...She of course didn't even recognize me for a second, and it was so unexpected, that I think she had trouble processing at first. It was also an early morning appointment, and she apparently hadn't really woken up yet either.

We only had a couple minutes before her first appointment, so it was just surprised, slightly nervous conversation. I told her about originally having an appt with me, but I had it moved, and she told me I didn't need to do that; it would've been just fine. The one thing that I consciously tried not to do was 'corner' her-it was her day off to come and relax at a spa, and i didn't want it to turn into something awkward. I didn't say anything about her cutting me off or anything about high school; it was just 'what are you doing these days' and 'do you like it?' And she came out and said 'yeah, i guess I just sorta cut ya off after high school....sorry" and I said it's okay, it was a long time ago and we're all grown up now, so-to-speak, to which she looked relieved that I felt so.

When she came out, there was about a half hour between her first and second appt, and i wasn't busy yet, so I walked by asked if it's all right to chat, and she sounded sincere when she said yes. So...I'm pretty good at sensing whether someone is uncomfortable talking to me, and also good at directing a conversation to keep it comfortable, and I was paying extra close attention to this conversation, because as I said, i really didn't want to ruin her spa-day. She definitely seemed tired and stressed in general, but I don't think it had anything to do with me being there. But we had a pleasant conversation. I was being very conscious not to say anything that might put her off, like even suggesting that we keep in touch. Mostly letting her do the talking and getting a feel for whether she was interested in hearing me talk. She mentioned something about knitting, and I said I knit a lot too, and she said 'oh! you should come to my knitting group!' And at some point she said something about how it would definitely be nice to hang out some time. I had not directed the conversation to her saying these things at all-I'm sure of that, so I feel pretty confident that she meant it. She went a little more into what happened after high school-without me getting into it-and I assured her that it was okay. i told her that i did stress about it for...awhile..but I realized that it was a different time in our lives, and I've even done the same thing to some close friends, so I could understand the reasons for it.

But..we got all caught up on current stuff, and there was much laughing and smiling-it was definitely slightly awkward, but I don't think she was uncomfortable. Her second appt ended at the same time my first one did, so I waited for her up at the front desk with my cell # already written down on the back of my card-I thought I'd just offer it-better than asking for hers-and when she walked up there, without saying a word, grabbed a card and wrote down her #, saying we'll definitely see each other soon. I said it was really nice to see her, and she opened her arms for a hug and thanked me for 'being so awesome' (probably for not bringing up too much about the past).

So...she made many indications that she was happy to see me and hoping to stay in touch, without any suggestion from me. So...definitely planning at some point to go to the knitting group some time...should I call her? Maybe think of something fun and neutral that we could do in the city? How soon? Lord, I feel like i'm dating or something...just don't want to screw it up : P

whew~thanks ya'll!
It's the summer after my first year of college right now and since I'm back with all my old friends it feels like high school all over again sometimes.

At school I was really lucky and developed an awesome, close group of friends. We were always there for each other and I somehow managed to end up as one of the "cool kids," where people sought me out and wanted to hang out with me all the time.

Back at home I still consider a couple of these girls to be my best friends but it's a whole different story. Maybe we're just used to each other so we don't care as much about treating people with respect, but there's this whole hierarchy and suddenly everyone's passing each other over so they can try and hang out with who they think are the cooler and better people to be hanging out with. Besides ending up routinely bored, it gets lonely, and the rejection isn't the best feeling either.

Also, it's difficult realizing which friendships didn't make it the year. I can now barely stand someone who used to be one of my best friends. And I just never thought that would happen with her and as much as I try to just accept that change happens it still is sad to see.
I'm so mad at my friend right now. I'm friends with twin sisters. I'm much closer with the one who is getting married. We're having the rehearsal on Thursday at 5pm, or so I thought. The one getting married said the rehearsal was actually at 4 and I said that I couldn't get there till a little after 5. We discussed it and I told her I would try to get there and we just dropped it with the understanding I would be there ASAP.

Today I get an email from her sister.

"Hey ****,
So **** mentioned that you were missing the rehearsal on thursday for an appointment. This might seem harsh, but that's really not cool. You knew well in advance that the wedding party needed to be at my parents for 4, and that we were doing a family BBQ at 5pm. You are part of the wedding party and it's in pretty poor taste for you to be missing the rehearsal. **** hasn't asked much of us, and I think it's important that we all be there to support her. I'm sure she said it was okay, but I know ****, and she's probably really hurt that you are prioritizing a meeting over her wedding.

Anyway, it's up to you, but I really hope you'll should change/skip your appointment.


I was so pissed off when I read it I started shaking. She has a history of guilt tripping people and using the "oh, I really know how **** feels, and I know she's not happy" when it's really just all her. Her sister (the one getting married) tells me she's been trying to get control of a few aspects that the bride just doesn't care about (shoes the bridesmaid should wear, sweaters, etc). It's no big deal because the rest of us don't care enough to argue and usually just go along with things. I couldn't let this go though, it made me so angry that she would deem it "in good taste" to send an email like this to a friend.

And contrary to what I was told, the original email that had the start time of the rehearsal DID say 5pm!

I sent a semi-heated email back and told her if her sister had a problem she could let me know herself. And then just to be safe I emailed the bride and let her know I had gone off a bit and just wanted to make sure we were good and that it really wasn't a big deal.

Am I alone in thinking this is totally innapropriate?
That was definitely a dick move on the non-marrying sister's part to send that to you. If the bride had a problem with it, she'd have told you herself, no? Cowardly to boot since she emailed it.
No, it was inappropriate behavior from the sister. She had no reason to send this email to you.
Apparently she sent a similar one to the other bridesmaid in regards to the stagette two weeks ago. The other bridesmaid had something that would have made her an hour or so late (for a party that was lasting from 2pm-2am) and the non-marrying sister wrote her a guilt tripping email too. The bridesmaid was just saying to me how she can't stand her guilt trips.

I honestly don't know how she expects someone to reply to something like that. Gah! I think they're at a wedding today so I'm not expecting a reply for a few days, or until after they get back.

Unfortunately I'm pretty sure she's going to insist I'm the one at fault. Ah well, I feel confident that she's the ONLY one getting bent out of shape over this and the bride and I are just fine.

I feel much better after some ventings. biggrin.gif
ketto, people like that are a bitch to deal with. They get all bent out of shape over something that, in the grand scheme of things, isn't going to have an impact on the situation. Sometimes I think they do it for attention, mainly wanting people to feel sorry for them and all the (self-inflicted) stress they have to deal with. Like everyone else, I think that as long as the bride isn't upset with you then there is no problem.
ketto - I say, fuck it. Just let it roll off you, knowing that 1) you've been more than accommodating - people do have a life they have to work around, though some people would have you believe that everything in the world should stop for their (in this case, their sister's) wedding - you've done a damn good job of scheduling around it. 2) she is being completely out of line, especially since it's not her wedding. Sounds like if her sister had a problem with it, she would have told you. Don't even bring anything up with her - clearly it's drama she wants to stir up, and just letting it roll off without saying a damn thing or letting it get to you will make you the bigger person (besides the fact you have nothing to feel bad about) plus it probably make her fucking crazy that she can't ruffle you. Thus the shit backfires on her. ha!

people like that aren't even worth the time to get stressed it's so obvious they're out of line.
Oh my god, this situation just got stupid. I can't even believe it. Unfortunately they're out of town so this is all via email and I can't even call her up. Let me preface this by saying, these are twin sisters so they have their own special kind of relationship and both have some odd tendencies.

The bride emailed me indicating she was not happy with my response to her sister and let me know she was actually really upset about the rehearsal and lied about disliking her sisters shoe choices. I was floored, really and truly. She's one of my best friends so she's just been lying or keeping her mouth shut around me apparently because she was afraid I'd be angry...? Most of my friends say one of the things they like about me is that I'm not judgmental and I'm always supportive!

She thought I was against her wedding because I always say I never want to get married. She kept saying she didn't want me to be disappointed or upset. The only thing I've been concerned about is what she wants for HER wedding. And she kept pretending to agree with what I was saying.

I wrote her back and let her know I was angry and that I needed her to be honest with me from now on. When she lies like this we both end up getting hurt. If she just told me all these things from the start they never would have turned into issues anyway.

I feel like all the trust in our relationship just got blown away. *sigh* We've been friends for 17 years so no doubt, this will be repaired, but this is going to take some time. On her end. She obviously hasn't felt like she can trust me, but I really don't know if I can trust her now. I was really diplomatic in my reply and let her know I know she's stressed and this isn't another stress she needs, but this needs to change now. I love her and care for her and want her to be happy, but it obviously causes a huge stress on her when she pretends and lies to me.

If there's one thing I can't stand, it's dishonesty. Paperboy and I have gotten into a few "almost-fights" over his passive-aggressive, guilting, or manipulative behaviour. If everyone was just honest from the start the world would be much happier!

I was all non-stressed anymore and felt good about straightening things out but gah, this had me shaking and in tears. I can't believe she was trying to placate me all this time! The stupid thing is she would have been so much happier if she just told me how she really felt.

I wish I could just let this roll off me now. God, these twins have caused me stress over the years.
(((((ketto))))) I don't even know what to say. I mean, really if the bride had had an issue with you all along then she should have said something herself. And no offense to twins but they do tend to have a weirder, more intense connection than other types of siblings.

I'm guessing that maybe she didn't want to be sound negative so maybe that's why she didn't voice her dislike over certain aspects of the wedding and now it's all getting to her so she's saying it at the last minute. I don't know much about brides but it seems like there is so much to deal with and it can be so stressful and what bothers one bride wouldn't bother another. Maybe she was just reaching her breaking point with the stress so that's why she's speaking up now. As for her being worried about you judging her, that doesn't make much sense. Just because you don't want to get married doesn't mean that you wouldn't support her decision. I have no idea where she came up with that.

Anyway, I hope you two can get things sorted out before the wedding.
(((ketto))) It really sounds like you are trying to be as direct, honest, and open as you can with your friend. Kudos for trying to be the mature one in this situation. I think it is a tough line to hold when people (like her twin) try to bait you into a 3 ring circus. That type of triangulation is quite seductive.

QUOTE(ketto @ Jun 20 2009, 03:39 PM) *
She thought I was against her wedding because I always say I never want to get married.

Dude, that's her insecurity and immaturity with handling someone's values and beliefs which are different from hers. I've come to learn that when people voice a different opinion and feel immediately threatened that you are judging them are not really working from a secure place (ego can be a bitch and make you think everything is about you--meaning your friend). I think these people fail to give you credit for being supportive of others' choices even when your choices are different.

I hope things work out with your friend.
My boyfriend doesn't understand how I can't get more angry at them. I guess I've known them so long and I know it's a twin thing. I think I could never quite figure out why we have communication problems before and I think it's because they almost treat each other like the same person sometimes, which is hard when you're closer with one then the other. It's like the bride and I are trying to communicate and her sister is our interpreter, like in the telephone game. By the time the message gets back to me I feel like it's unclear and muddled.

The bride has always had bad self esteem and security issues and I understand she was just trying to make both me and her sister happy. What she's forgetting is that we want HER to be happy. I think she actually just needs to learn to be a little more selfish really, and that's not a bad thing. I was really honest and we talked through everything on Saturday. She apologized and I apologized for some things and she admitted that it was a problem and that she will try and be honest. I told her that I really value her honest opinion and I don't want friends who tell me what I want to hear, I want to know what she thinks.

I also told her all the wonderful and beautiful things that I think about her and her fella getting married, which I admit, I've never said before, and I think that really made her understand that I really don't know she felt that way or thought I had bad feelings about their marriage.

We both said we feel a lot closer after talking everything out so I'm happy, and I think she's happier because it's a week before her wedding and she should be able to be excited and tell us what she wants, especially right now.

Unfortunately her sister was not so receptive. I understand she wrote the original email because she was trying to be protective and trying to use guilt to get me there, but all it did was get me really pissed off with her. I explained that she can't communicate for the bride and she said I don't consider the brides feelings - to which I replied, if she lies to my face and withholds her feelings then I can't consider them. I just re-iterated that she shouldn't send me emails like that in the future, and if she does I won't reply, but I'll go straight to the bride to find out what's going on. In the end she said we obviously have different opinions but we both apologized and agreed that we're friends, not as close as we used to be, but we love each other. Frankly, I was thrilled with that because I knew it was the best I would get from her.

Whew, I'm so glad this thread is here to vent. Thanks for the support everyone!
snow white
my friend is not seriously dating anyone and, after a nasty breakup a few months ago, living with her parents. so she is always trying to keep busy and get out of the house. because i'm married and recently bought a house, lately if she asks me to dinner or whatevs it feels like a test of my friendship. she's pulling out the guilt trips, like - can you PLEASE make a few minutes for me? she's been complaining to our mutual friend also, who has a bf, that when she had a bf she still made plenty of time for her friends and we don't.

i don't want to but she's pushing for argument and for me to say to her - look, i'm sorry you're bored but i have a new house, husband and other friendships that also need my attention! instead i've been lying/making excuses to avoid seeing her the 3 times a week she's been asking me out, not only because i have other stuff i'd rather do, but because she's becoming such a drag.

i need to include that when i had a breakup, she allowed me to crash in her apt. and we became roomates in another apt until i moved in with my now-husband. so i feel like i'm indebted, but i never forced her to babysit me like this.
three times a week? has she not heard of meetup, for volunteer opportunties, or even the public library has announcements for activities. it's fine for her to want to hang out with you and such; maybe sometimes she can come to your house? instead of spending all the money to go out.
Three times a week? That's pretty intense. What kind of activities is she suggesting? If she just wants to get together for lunch (and you usually go out to lunch anyway) then you could probably make that work a couple of times a week. However, if she's wanting to get together that often to see movies or go out to a bar then, yes, that's too often.

Is there a chance that she's still in pain from the break-up? Or maybe she was okay with the break-up at the time it happened, but is hurting from it now? If that's the case, I can see why she would want to spend a lot more time with her girlfriends.

I wonder if she'd be happy to just hang out at your house while you do your ordinary evening stuff. Maybe she'd be willing to help you unpack the last of your boxes from your move or help you cook dinner. I know when I went through a bad break-up, one thing my best friend did that helped me a lot is she gave me menial tasks to do around her store. I helped unpack inventory, vaccuumed the floors, worked the cash register, etc. It helped me take my mind off the pain while spending time with her. And as a bonus, it made life a little bit easier for my best friend.

I must confess that I demanded more of her time than what was really fair. I couldn't see it at the time because I was in so much pain, but I definitely see it now. All I knew was that I needed to be around close friends who knew me, warts and all, yet still cared about me and saw the good parts of me. Also, I found that my friends could speak to me more plainly about the situation than anyone else. I, too, moved back in with my parents after the break-up. Although I love my parents, I didn't feel as free to express myself in their home. But when I was with my girlfriends - especially my best friend - I could freely talk about my thoughts and feelings. She listened & was supportive when appropriate, but sometimes she also called me on my shit - especially when I was wallowing too much. I really needed that kind of honesty from someone who really cared about me. Maybe your friend does, too.
thanks, p and rv. thing is, she's making it hard to be around her, because i'm doing my best to be there for her and when she criticizes that it's not enough in this way, i just wanna say - eff you. i know it sounds harsh because i know how she's feeling, but it just never seems enough. but i will try honesty without the eff word smile.gif
This is long & quite a ramble, read it at your own peril. I'm basically using this as an exercise to sort some relationship issues out in my mind.

I am, by & large, a genuinely nice person.* I have a problem in that I am often too accepting of people's foibles: Nobody's perfect, everybody's got baggage, people are selfish/stupid/thoughtless, blah blah blah. Anyway, I usually know just how one of my friends is going to sin against me, & when the shoe drops? I forgive. How not to forgive when I KNEW they were gonna pull some shit that I am basically powerless to stop? I have in the past tried to preempt fucked up behavior in friends, which really only seemed to make the eventual situation worse than it should have been.

And lord knows, I'm not perfect & expect to be offered forgiveness when I've fucked up. I just didn't/don't seem to fuck up as much or as on a grand of a scale as some people I have known/know.

Anywho, about eight years ago, I reached a final straw with one of these friends (We'd been friends for maybe two years). I cut her off cold, no explanation, no nothing because I was just angry enough to have done something crazyinsane & gotten us both in trouble. I thought I'd get over it after a couple months. I didn't. She didn't help matters by drunkenly calling me once a month or so to either berate my machine or cry into it. By that point I was just done with her foolishness.

Now, I realize that a lot of her/my/our problems extended from the lifestyle we were living at the time. We were in our twenties, attractive, neither of us relationship type girls that liked to party & have a good time. So basically ridiculous sybarites that wasted tonnes of money. BUT. Party girl or no, I still had my shit together because I had responsibilities. I could always pay my bills, I always made it to work on time, I almost always made it to work 100% sober, I never spent money I didn't have, I never fucked anybody so truly regrettable that they'd steal the money for my cellphone payment while I slept. I'd work my eight hours, maybe overtime once or twice a week, take care of my mom, & still manage to squeeze in a goodly amount of recreation time. She could not do this & I picked up a LOT of slack for her (~cough~ enabled ~cough~).

In her defense, in her own way, she had been a good friend on many levels. We talked on the phone constantly, emailed from work, & did all the regular friend things. We hosted dinner parties, clothing swaps, movie nights & such. She was warm, smart, funny, & a pretty good egg. She was especially there for me when my dad died. She watched my pets, she cleaned my apartment, she dealt with my work. And most importantly: she didn't judge me. I did a lot of ranting & raving.

Eventually, however, I realized that she took out a lot more than she put into things, so I curbed things (~cough~ enabling ~cough~) on my end: If she watched my apartment, I removed every drop of liquor from the place except my mom's rotgut. If she didn't have anything to wear out, too fucking bad because she'd borrowed & ruined/kept enough of my things. If she was skint because she's spent all her money on partying, I'd buy her a few basic groceries or cut a small cheque (No more than $25) to her landlord/utilities to keep her running, but no cash & I wouldn't go out with her so she could cadge drinks. I no longer helped her dodge guys she'd cadged drinks from/errantly slept with, etc, etc, etc. I also stopped letting her slide on the little white lies she'd tell me, like when she said she'd stopped smoking when I knew she hadn't. She didn't seem to notice any of these changes or at least she never mentioned them other than accusing me of stick in the mud-ness when I declined an evening out.

Fast forward nine months. Post horrible breakup, I had been slowly, SLOWLY courting a fellow I thought was fantastic. Well-read, witty, charming, cute, delightfully argumentative. Long weekend afternoons of brunch, bloody mary's, & conversation. Talking during the week, really getting to know one another. He gave us a ride home from a Memorial Day party & as soon as the car doors shut? It was glaringly obvious that she was going to do everything in her power to fuck him. I do not know how or why I knew, but I did. When we were a couple miles from my house, I even asked to be let out from the car to find my own way home because I couldn't bear being the first one dropped off because I knew what they were going to do. I didn't hear from her for three days, confirming my suspicions. It took her two weeks of ass-kissing before she finally got drunk enough to admit what she'd done. And I was still just hurt enough to be mean for a change:

M: I slept with A.
AP: I know.
M: You knew?
AP: I knew you would before you did.
M: ~long, confused pause~ You? How?
AP: ~arched brow, tight grin~
M: Oh. He does totally like you, you know.
AP: It doesn't matter.
M: ~relieved that the sex that meant nothing to her also meant nothing to me~ No, it totally doesn't matter, you can still go out with him. He really does like you.
AP: No, M, you misunderstand. HE no longer matters. He's nothing now.
~long, VERY uncomfortable pause for her~
AP: Since it's your dime, I think I'll have the smoked salmon benny.

Things went fine for a couple months, M found a guy that she decided to make her sort of boyfriend, R. He wasn't very smart, he was annoying, he was a homophobe. I didn't like him much & when she asked me, I told her politely that I wasn't crazy about him, but I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt if she really liked him. I wasn't taking any of his homophobe shit, though. She got drunk & of course, told him that I HATED him, which made him feel bad. Things then got awkward because she didn't want to upset him or me, so she'd lie to one or both of us. More often me.

So I called her one Saturday morning after a great date (This is when I stopped discussing my lovelife with my IRL friends. It's none of their business & they can't fuck up or fuck a guy they don't know.) to see if she wanted to have breakfast because I was feeling good. She said she didn't know what she was doing, she was with R, she'd call me right back when they'd decided where to go. As soon as we hung up, I knew she was going to fuck me over for her hump because she couldn't keep her mouth shut & he was now uncomfortable with me. As the minutes ticked by, I grew progressively angrier BECAUSE ALL SHE HAD TO DO WAS FUCKING DECLINE MY INVITATION. After an hour I called her, she didn't answer her cellphone. After two hours, the same. At three hours, I calmed down & called somebody else. He answered the phone thusly:

C: So, you finally got tired of waiting for M, huh?
AP: Excuse me?
C: I just talked to M. She & R are at the spot finishing their breakfast. They've been there two hours. I already ate.
AP: Oh, well, thanks anyways.

My ire re-ignited. The spot was my local, so I called ahead & ordered breakfast to go because if she was still there & I tried to eat I'd have caused a MAJOR scene. I waited ten minutes, grabbed a book & walked over. They were outside, so I sat inside at the bar where M couldn't see me & ordered a quick drink since my food wasn't ready yet. She saw me on her way back from the john & wandered up to me all guilty-like.

M: ~awkward lie~ Hey! I just called you!
AP: ~stony silence, barely a glance~
M: ~changed subject~ So what's this you're reading? ~reached to touch book~
AP: Don't. Just DON'T.
M: ~fear, confusion~ Don't what?
AP: Don't touch my things & don't fucking talk to me. You'll only lie.
M: Wha wha what?
AP: Caller ID doesn't lie, you fucking do. Go fuck yourself. Don't ever contact me again.
M: Wait? What? Why?
AP: ~snatched bag off counter from quickly retreating bartender, slammed drink~ You know why. I'm serious. DON'T EVER SPEAK TO ME AGAIN. ~stalked away~

And that was that for me. Outside of asking her to return a few personal items of mine, I ignored her. I quit all but three of the people we ran with (People that were my friends first & were sensible enough not to get involved) & all of the places; thankfully she ceded me my local or there'd have been hell to pay.

M? She called, she emailed, she wrote me letters, she tried to talk to me in person. Eventually it dwindled to her once a month drunken rants, then it became her drunken rants where she included another mutual drunken friend that I kicked to the curb as well. This went on for about a year until she quit for a bit. I had drinks with an old common friend & his girl, she tried again. I briefly considered reconciling as I was no longer angry, but thought better of it & declined. She & R fell in love, he got her pregnant, they moved to Florida. I had dinner with the same old friend, she came to town, got drunk, & tried again. Again she was rebuffed. I continued on my merry way for years.

And then Facebook was invented. We reconnected, I figured it was harmless. She's in Florida, right? She's common law married, she has a five year old. What harm can she do? A little chitchat, blah blah blah. WRONG.

Somehow, she took my accepting her friendship on a social networking site to mean that we are as tight as we ever were & that no time has passed. All is forgiven & we are besties again. She got my number from a friend & now I can count on a once a month DRUNKEN (Some things never change. She hits the bottle once the kid is in bed) midnight phone call trying to convince me to come visit her. Because I want to spend my money to go to a state I hate to see somebody that I barely know, her irritating husband, & her kid. She can't wait for me to meet her daughter, she tells her about auntie Aural all the time, blah blah blah. I do not respond to her the way she responds to me (I really only take her calls because I'm lonely, I admit. I'm not proud of myself for it). She doesn't know about my work, she doesn't know about my man, she doesn't know dick about me & seems to not notice that she does all the talking when she calls. She doesn't hear me hustling to get off the phone after fifteen minutes of rambling. She does NOT HEAR me say that I am not visiting her.

I do not know how to MAKE her hear me. And even if she did eventually listen? She would be confused & hurt & not get it even if I spelled it out for her in plain English: You are an acquaintance at best. I am not spending all that money to come down there to get drunk with you. The Hard Rock is lame. I am not interested in regressing to ten years ago. I probably still would not like your husband, nor would he like me. The cycle would begin anew.

~sighs, rubs eyes~

I KNOW why she clings to me so. HIGHLY dysfunctional family life: Her mother had two daughters from a previous marriage before she married M's father & had her. M's father proceeded to molest her two step-sisters for several years. Ugly divorce, resentful step-sisters, no relationship with dad outside of the odd cheque when she fucked up too large. That led to her seeking out approval from somebody with an equally fucked up background that understood where she was coming from. Enter J, who is such a hot mess that I'm not even going to elaborate outside of the fact that her whole clan is racist, incestuous, drunken, drugged, promiscuous, dishonest, & just all around fucked up. Most of the fucked up shit M did to me? Were things that J did to her without blinking an eye. M just thought that that was how people that were friends acted, even though after she did them she felt bad, which J never, ever did. That confused M.

Anyway, M clings to me because I was the first REAL friend she ever had. No agenda, no ulterior motives, I cared about her & never tried to actively hurt her. If she had a problem, we fixed it. We didn't just spend our last twenty bucks on a case of Natty & a few joints & hoped it'd all work out on it's own. I shared with her, I didn't take take take take & take some more. I even welcomed her into my family, she had holiday meals with us, my mom even went to the trouble of making sure she got a little Xmas or birthday something personal from her even though she thought M was kinda nutso**.

M hasn't had a "real friend" since me. She has a handful of mommie friends in FLA, but no friends that don't just relate to her on the playdate level. That's why she's pushing the "Visit me" agenda so hard. She called me the other night with a "proposition" of me coming to visit some weekend, me getting a room at the Hard Rock, & us partying & riding roller coasters for a couple days. If there wasn't so much baggage attached, if it wasn't M, if it wasn't Florida . . . but it is. AND I'M NOT FUCKING GOING.

Whew! Writing all that down has made me feel ever so much better about things. Honestly, I think I just need a hug & to see my friends next week. It'll be a tonic & I will come back refreshed, renewed, & reinvigorated.

*I was largely unaware that I am considered "nice". Again, the advent of FB has driven this point home. People remember me as letting my freak flag fly, but also that I was confident, mature, dependable, & genuinely nice. Apparently I was nice to a lot of disenfranchised people back then & they appreciated it. I always thought I was a nasty little bitch with a chip on my shoulder the size of a small boulder.

**Totally OT, but a good memory of my mom: M had brought R over for Thanksgiving dinner. She was nervous, so they drank a couple bottles of wine before they came over. M was so drunk she couldn't get her pies to set up. We all continued to drink, we smoked a lot of my mom's good pot stash. At the time, my mom couldn't go to the bathroom without me to take her pants up/down & handle the wiping. Like catty bitches, as soon as the door shut, my mom started talking shit about R. We were standing there & I was trying to wipe my mom's butt, but we were both shaking too hard from laughing at what a fucking tool R was. Never thought I'd have a good chuckle at the memory of wiping a grown woman's fanny.
I concur with your assessment AP: you are possibly being too nice to this woman. Sars from Tomato Nation used to give the same advice over and over to people having problems with friends they didn't want to be friends with anymore: the more you reinforce the status quo, they more they think that everything's okay between you.

At the risk of sounding cold, I think you should decide exactly what kind of relationship you want to have with her, if any. I mean, from what you've written it sounds like there is no longer anything in this relationship for you except some residual sympathy for her. It sounds like a draining exchange, to be honest.

I don't believe in burning bridges, but I also live conveniently far from people from my past who I'm not interested in ever seeing again, so I appreciate the idea of reducing or breaking contact again is easier said than done. I have a probably irrational fear of clinginess, so my response is also informed by that. I'm sure she needs and values her renewed contact with you... but what are you getting out of this?
AP, reading your posts reminded me of a couple of female friendships I've had in my 20s. I tend to be direct with people. I would probably just let her know where things lie with her, which I think you are ready to do from your post. That it is good to get in contact with her and seeing she is doing ok, but, that you have no intention in taking the friendship any further. Also, let her know how the drunk calls, etc. make you feel. I wouldn't get so caught up in her listening to you 'cause she'll only want to believe what she wants, but, at least, you know, you handled things maturely.

I remember I had 1 woman I tried to be friends with and it seemed like she enjoyed arguing with me and would get drunk before we went out to do something....yeah, not cool with that behavior. So, I ended the friendship and let her know why. She just made me uncomfortable and I didn't enjoy being around her. I would second what Syb said about what are you getting from this woman as a friend?

nickclick, I would probably just let your friend know how her behavior makes you feel too.
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