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I've been having weird issues with my best friend from high school. High school was almost a decade ago, but we've kept in touch ever since - definitely in close contact all through college and have been on a few long weekends together during college. But over the last six months, I've called her several times a month but she never calls back. She answered twice. Both times we chatted for a few minutes before she said she had go but would call me back (but never did). I haven't brought it up with her, even though I really want to.

What's weird is that even though she hasn't returned calls, I saw her on New Year's Eve and she seemed really thrilled to be hanging out with me/the old group. And when I got her on the phone a few weeks ago to tell her I was going to be back in town for Memorial Day, she seemed really thrilled again and said I should keep her posted so we can hang out. But she hasn't answered or returned my calls since.

I'm confused. I'd be okay with letting the friendship fade into history if she wasn't sending me mixed messages. I don't want to just drop her if she doesn't actually want to be dropped, but who can tell?

Also, a sidenote, the two times I got her on the phone, after she expressed enthused interested in hanging out, all she talked about was how much money her live-in boyfriend is now making. Annoying.
I am developing issues with the mother of one of the children I babysit.... I am beginning to view her as extremely ungrateful and hauty!
I ONLY charge $50.00 per WEEK for my FULLTIME babysitting services (Mon-Fri 5:45AM -3:00 PM or later) and this is for babies under 6 monthes of age! No where will they find anyone cheaper than I am and I charge this amount because the mothers are single and young and don't make so much money (like $10.00 to $13.50 per hour)
ANYWAY.... this one mother seems to think that it is my job, as her babysitter, to cater to her every whim and take care of baby related things that she doesn't "enjoy", for her! For example... she doesn't "like" to trim her babies nails because it makes him cry so she expects ME to do it and will actually let the babies nails get soooo long and then have the nerve to comment on it when she picks him up from my house and say something like..." oh, you didn't do his nails today? they're getting awfully long and I supposed you would have them trimmed by today " WTF???? basic baby care is HER responsibility I would think! I mean sure I can trim nails occasionally, but to EXPECT that I will do it every time it needs be done? HELLO!
And then just this morning, she informs me that she needs me to change the baby's feeding schedule that I have had him on for the past several monthes because it "interferes with HER afternoon GYM SCHEDULE"!!!!!! OMG.... this is the stupidest shit I have ever heard! The baby has to be fed differently because it is inconvenient to her for him to eat at 2PM at my house? It mucks up HER gym schedule?
Also, when she gets here to pick him up after work, she is constantly smelling his hands and commenting if they don't smell as good as she wants them too.... the baby chews on his hands (as all babies do) and drools quite a bit as I think he is teething a bit... I wash him several times during the day and wash him right before she arrives but she seems to think that I should have some control over his chewing habits and that I have nothing better to do than sit around with a fresh cloth and make sure his hands smell "baby fresh"!!!!! She also doesn't like me changing his clothes because it creates "too much laundry for her".....
Sorry for going on like a madwoman but I just think that if I were the one getting $50.00 per week childcare in a nice home with a person taking good care of my baby, that I would be bending over backward to show my gratitude!!!!!
Some people just burn my ass!!!!!!
Voodoo, I would tell her where to go!! $50 for the week, and she's gonna be like that? I don't think so. Sounds to me like you're already doing her a favor with your services.
Thank you ((raskel))... I'm glad to see I'm not the only person who thinks this situation to be WONKY!!!!!
So I have this friend that always talks badly about me behind my back. She does it to everyone she is friends w/ including her own boyfriend and family members. (Actually she is family sort of so I can't just get rid of her.)

But she won't quit. If you confront her about is she starts spewing excuses for her nasty behavoir and/or crying. What can I do?
I am in the process of having a break-up with a friend, and it's bumming me out almost like a broken romance would. If she were a closer friend, it would be worse than a romance. I've been in this cycle with her for years where we get closer when she's single, we're okay when we're both with someone, then when I'm the single one, I can't seem do anything right and she is annoyed whenever I draw attention. I'm not particularly enjoying being single this time around and if I manage to eek out some flirtation once in a while, it sucks to be told later that I made a fool of myself. She is a very attractive person and though I have my own beauty, hers is the kind that is universally agreed on. So this seems really backwards to me.

She is even arguing with me about how I run my business--something completely out of her realm. I just don't feel like going through this cycle with her yet again and compromising yet again. I think this is the last round. But it won't be without some sadness.

Has anyone had a friendship reach this stage and then been repaired, or any insight at all?
mel, it doesn't sound like she's very sensitive to your feelings...

i had to let go of a friend that is really a strong woman, i admire her a lot, and she's beautiful without effort and/or vanity, but it became a chore to be around her...i just let go...i just went my own way...stopped calling...there wasn't a need to discuss anything...she had her own, we can talk on the phone every once in awhile and have this amazing connection...if she ever needed anything i'd be there for her in a minute and vice versa...but we're too different to be trying to hang wit each other every weekend...hope this helps a little...
Mermaidgirl: Sounds exactly like myself and a girl I went to high school with in my senior year.

She's an idiot. I don't want anything to do with her, but I'm not confrontational enough to tell her how I feel when she calls. I'm just nice to her on the phone or whatever, then I'm glad she's decided to finally hang up.

If she's not calling you, take it as a sign. Friendship is a two way street. If she's staying on her side, well...
Okay. I'm probably overreacting wildly, but:
My best friend (here anyway), who is 31, has been on a dating site recently getting messages here and there, and...well
I talked to him today and he told me that he'd been messaged (and responded, though "he didn't come on to her") to an 18-year old girl. Now, I know that everyone is at different stages at different ages, and I can't judge by myself (I was an absolute CHILD at 18), but this really bothers me. I know I can't go around judging people because I don't agree with their actions, but she's 18, and according to her profile is "working on high school". All of this makes me feel like he's verging into creepy mode, and I don't know what (since I doubt there's anything) that I can do.
I'm just coming in here to rant. sorry.

This is the third time in a month one of my oldest friends has decided he's coming down to visit, and then told me he's not coming only a few hours before I was due to meet his train. Every time he comes up with an excuse, and they're rather old - someone else has done something which means he can't do what he wants - and I'm frankly sick of it. I go through the rigmarole of tidying my house, rushing to get my work done early so I've got the day free, and telling my local friends and flatmates an out-of-towner is coming in. Only to discover that he "can't make it". Am I overreacting?

zillah, have you told him this makes you seriously uncomfortable? No, there's probably not a lot you can do, but your friend might not realise quite what you think of this. Has he met the girl? (and I don't think you're overreacting. I'm not yet twenty, and I think she sounds odd. She's eighteen, she's a kid, why is she on an online dating site?)
See, that's one of the problems: he's incredibly defensive when he thinks he's being judged. I got the feeling from some of the things that he said to me yesterday when he told me about her that he was baiting me in response to my initial "She's HOW old??". For example, we went dancing last night, and he pointed out a girl he found attractive, I wasn't seeing it, so I shrugged or something, and he got really pissed off. He considers that to be judging HIM, so he gets very very prickly. Sigh. I mean, I get the feeling from this chick's profile that he'd not be able to handle an hour with her in real life, but the fact that he's okay with the age thing is just off to me.

As for your rant, I don't think you're overreacting at ALL. That's really inconsiderate (at the very least) of this guy. Have you told him how it makes you feel?
zillah, I've told him repeatedly. It's slightly added too by him acknowledging he finds me attractive &, well, doesn't want to sleep on the sofa. So I'm getting pulled in all directions besides just the irritation of getting ready for him to arrive. Grr. Bloody boy. Flaming argument ensued.

I can understand your friend feeling defensive; my ex used to get very defensive over the age gap between us (eight years). It may be that he's a little uncomfortable himself with it too. I can't really offer much of a solution; if he's not thinking of dating this girl I'd leave him too it though. He knows you're not comfortable, and there's no more to be said.

eta: ooh, it's you who added me! cod I'm dim sometimes :-)
Yeah, I've decided that there's no point in saying anything until he actually DOES something. I mean, there's no point in starting a fight where he thinks he's being judged over a couple of emails. I may (if he tells me too much at some point) tell him that I don't want to hear about it. If he actually starts seeing the girl, then I may have to make some tough decisions. It really just feels wrong to me.
As for your sitch: Boys. Are. Dumb. It's not original, but it's what I have.
So here's an update (mostly for mornington, who is awesome for listening). Today I went over to Friend's house and he mentioned that he and girlie have exchanged IM nicknames (but I don't know if there's been any convo). Anyhow, he showed me the profiles of a couple other women who have messaged him, then he showed me her's (he'd forgotten he already had sent it to me). So I asked him if he'd seen the high school bit, and he hadn't actually, but said "Oh, maybe it's outdated". So I told him "Maybe, but that means that she either JUST graduated or is still in." I told him that, yes, she's cute, but that the age thing bothered me and he told me that he knew that, but that I'd have to get over it. And that it annoys him when I mention these things. So I asked him flat out, "Look, you know that I love you, but honestly, this girl aside, in general, doesn't the 18-year old thing bother you?" and he said that maybe it did, but that it was none of my business. Which yeah, is true. I really think that the high school thing threw him more than he'd admit to me. Who knows? I mean, knowing his ways, it's doubtful that I'd ever really meet any girl he dated (he "likes to keep his worlds separate"), but at least I made myself known and that helped me a little. Also, seeing the girl's profile again, I think, cute or no, he'd kill her within minutes. Sigh. I do hate whatever part of my personality that makes it impossible for me to not dwell on things that I cannot control and that don't really affect me. GAH!
I can't think of anything much to add, but I'm not awesome at all

At least - if he could stand her long enough to date her - then you wouldn't have to deal with her. At least he's aware that you're uncomfortable, even if it isn't precisely your business - and you can't help wanting to dwell on it.

Irritating friend is now not talking to me *sigh*. My own fault for having such a temper.
Grrr...I just have to rant. This weekend I'm going to the Winnipeg Folk Fest, a big event here, and my two best friends just arranged a ride with a bunch of my other friends and left me to find my own way. I'm extremely pissed off, so angry I just went in my room to try and cool off but got angrier and then had one of those angry cries. It's so maddenning because I'm the one who got everyone to go, picked up the ticket for the person who's driving, and asked him (although quite a few weeks ago now) if I could get a ride if he was driving.

It's especially hurtful to me because I just recently told them how I've left out lately, like an after thought. This doesn't really do much for my self esteem and stress issues.

zillahgirl, one thing you might want to mention him -- not out of judgement but for his legal safety -- is if at any point she says anything like "well actually I am only 15" he needs to say adieu.

Not just because that makes it very illegal... but also because that cute 18 year old could turn out to be a big, manly police officer.
**sweary rant warning**

fucking arsehole of a boy who appears to be my friend cannot comprehend how I could possibly be offended by something I have repeatedly told him not only offends me but fucks me right off. It does not matter who it comes from, and the reasons behind it. It fucking offends me. Telling me to ignore it or that I'm being silly about it does not make it any less fucking offensive. I do not give a flying fuck if he thinks I'm being silly. He would not be fucking bored if he just pretended to listen for ten fucking seconds before disagreeing with what offends me, because I wouldn't have to explain it to him for the fiftieth fucking time, or explain to him over and over and over a fucking gain that I am offended no matter who it comes from and why.

With apologies to mornington & erinjane for jumping in before you got feedback;

I have to get this out. I'm SO pissed off & hurt.
I joined a Meetup group to hopefully find gals to hang with, cuz meeting friends after college (way after, in my case!) ain't easy. Things seemed cool, then along comes Nancy. She starts sending me emails. I'm OK with that, but NOT ready to hang out, cuz I don't like her whole "center of attention" vibe.Couple of weeks later, some of us went out. I'm being my normal silly self (as was she) & everyone's laughing & having fun. The topic got on sex & I said it had been ages. Now, the group knows I just recently broke up with my boy after 17 years, so I'm sure everyone put 2 & 2 together, but she just blares out some shit, along the lines of why wasn't I getting any & why did I stay if I wasn't.(She calls that being direct. I call that lack of tact.) I joked it off with a no comment type response. The next day, some of us went out & were laughing our selves silly, but Nancy keeps up with the snarky little comments, little jabs at me. I can talk smack with the best of them, so I did. Afterwards, the emails, even an e-card, keep coming, like she's my buddy. She even straight up asked me why I had left feedback for others & not her.(Uh, cuz you get on my nerves, dumbass.) I met her for coffee Fri. & she was talking about people in the group, which I told her wasn't cool when she hardly even knows them. Saturday, some of us went out & the snarky little comments begin again. (Ignoring doesn't work with this bitch. She escalates.)She starts telling the group things I said to her conversationally (about myself) the day before, which were not HERS to present. I wanted to crawl under the table! After talking to a couple of friends OUTSIDE the group to check myself,I sent her an email later, politely askng her to lay off & stop telling my shit to everyone. If it's about ME, I'LL share it. To make an already long story short, she went the fuck OFF! NO fault or blame of her own AND she had asked someone IN the group if they perceived her as rude to me. (They didn't-probably didn't want to feel her wrath!)I don't want to quit the group, but how am I going to get out of hanging out with her?(She goes to everything.) I'd rather spit on her than talk to her & as far as "time heals all?" Fuck her, too late. I don't need this childish shit. Any ideas?
thats a tight spot, sillygrrl...i would keep going to the group but just not talking to her...unless you all sit at one table or some such some point, it will either escalate in public or just disintegrate. just my 2 cents.


here's a random thought of confusion...i'm married. i wear a wedding band. yet people still act shocked when i tell them i am I breaking proper decorum by being myself and not changing one bit now that i am married?!?! i don't know if this is the right place for this..but my friends...who i have known for 6 months...are just realizing this...maybe they aren't friends afterall. thoughts?

I think it's cool that you didn't change when you got married.
yup, same here. It's who you are, and your personality shouldn't be defined by your marital status. They'll get used to it.

Apparently, I bore my friends. This from one of my oldest, and to some degree, closest friends since I was fifteen or so.

(((sillygrrl))) what ms gb said. She sounds a little out-of-line, is there someone in the group who you trust and could explain it to, so that other people know what she's doing - not in a telling-tales sense, but in a "this is making it difficult for me" way.
thanks wombat and mornington...

i mean, why should i change simply because a piece of paper says so....? so much crap has to be changed in the first and my personality should not be one of those things. y'know? crap. i just remembered that there's a thread for this...sorry!
Ahh the only (and last) problem I had with any of my friends was, unfortunately, my (now ex) best friend. We were like sisters for 4 years. She had this bf that one day hit her, so of course i was by her side when she went to court, talked wiht lawyers, etc, etc. Hell, I even stopped talking with the guy's friends just because of her!(even though they were my friends too, they were talking bad about her, not me, just her, so she asked me to stop talking with them and I said ok.) Then, like 5 months ago, she started hooking up with that boy again! I was like wtf are you KIDDING ME? AND she starting going out with those friends she asked me to stop talking to! Then she started telling people sh$t about me that wasn't true, and telling them that I go out too much(while telling other friends that I don't go out a lot), in short, trying to screw my image. Of course right there and then I cut any relationship with her, and I found out that she told 2 of my friends that they should stop talking with me. Did I also said that 99% of the friends she has is because of me? She wouldn't have all the friends she has now, she wouldn't know aaall these people if she wasn't because of me! It's funny because what she and I are going through(and went through) is EXACTLY what happened between Paris and Nicole. I know it's a dumb comparison(especially since I think they both are dumb and what not) but it's 99% exactly like them. The only difference is that I wouldn't spend my time writing a song about her cool.gif
MWAH to & mornington. Thanks for your sage advice & hugs. I have indeed spoken to others in the group & they've got my back. Kinda giving Troublegirl the shoulder as well;too funny, as she's totally sweating it to get back in my good graces.

BTW, doesn't have to change anything. Could your friends be jealous? I know most of my friends are married & sometimes, I don't think they realize that I don't feel the love I used to from them. I'd never begrudge THEM any love, but I don't want the nature of OUR friendship to change drastically either. As long as you know you haven't "changed one bit," then it's something about them.

mornington, have you asked this "friend" why she thinks you're boring? Sometimes priorities change (& you aren't who you were at 15!) & the friendship has to change a bit, too.

dani, the first thing that came to my mind was that your friend is totally embarassed that you know so much about her troubles & she knows she has NO reason to be with that boy, but rather than dealing with what she has to to straighten out her life, it's easier to pick at you! Being in an abusive relationship totally skewers your perspective. I would hope that all the "Friends" she's trying to turn against you can see beyond her words & value your friendship, regardless of what she says.

(((Ms. gb)))
QUOTE(sillygrrl13 @ Aug 16 2006, 10:13 PM) *

dani, the first thing that came to my mind was that your friend is totally embarassed that you know so much about her troubles & she knows she has NO reason to be with that boy, but rather than dealing with what she has to to straighten out her life, it's easier to pick at you! Being in an abusive relationship totally skewers your perspective. I would hope that all the "Friends" she's trying to turn against you can see beyond her words & value your friendship, regardless of what she says.

Thanks for the advice:)
Yeah, they (the friends) all like me more than her(some of the ons I talked to about this told me that, they wre saying" we never liked her, we were talking with her only cause of you!").
But yeah her perspective is f---d up. She's muslim, and of course I'm not saying that that is bad, but she says that in her religion they have taught her that its ok for a man to cheat on a woman, and if she ever finds her man cheating on her, then she has to be ok with it. ohmy.gif I'm sorry but I have many other muslims friends and they don't think that's ok. So I don't know what her parents/friends told her haha!
sillygrrl, good to know things are looking a little brighter.

O (the friend I argued with) and I have always been quite different people; we weren't that close at school but got close over the past couple of years - once I left school, really. We don't see each other all that often - sheer distance and whatnot - but talk quite a bit. I get the feeling that he's taking his problems out on me (he's just failed his first year at uni, has retakes and what have you) and that our differences are getting more noticeable. I mentioned my new rabbit, and he went off on one, telling me that all I ever talk about is animals (hello, I'm a vet student, guess what I spend my days with) or shoes.

It just hurt because another friend told me a few months ago that I "shouldn't talk about sheep, no-one finds them interesting" and that I was "boring people". She also basically told me I was failing because I was lazy and stupid (and that I'd embarrassed her by being a slut and sleeping with a guy she introduced me too). I don't really bother telling her much any more, as I figure it does more damage to my confidence than I really need.

OOMG she said that! Screw her then! When people are mean to other people(they shouldn't be mean to) its generally because they are JEALOUS. And a jealous friend is NEVER a good friend.

(((mornington and sillygrrl)))
This is about a problem with a neighbor.

There's this woman who lives 3 or 4 houses down who seems to have nothing better to do than walk up and down the road with a stroller, over and over, with noisy kids on bikes in tow. It got annoying pretty fast because she'd walk the same 50 feet and back all damn day so I'd have to hear those stupid kids and the squeaky stroller constantly. Plus sometimes if we're outside she'll hide behind the bushes and stare at us. Lately she's figured out that there are other roads to walk on. But still, whenever they go past my house they call my cat. My sister and I are pretty sure they're trying to "adopt" him and we're wondering if that's what happened to another cat that went missing a while ago.

What am I supposed to do? Just go out there and say "stop calling my cat?" That sounds a little paranoid and psycho. But my sister said she saw them beckoning the cat again, and when she called him, he wouldn't come home until the next day.
you could say that your cat tends to bite children, so nosylady shouldn't encourage it to come near... or say that he has some kind of medical condition that requires frequent medication so you don't like him to leave your property/go out of your sight. or, yeah, just say "hey, stop calling my cat."

here's my dilemma. a girl I know from college is getting married in a few months. back in the day we were really close and had a lot in common; as the years passed we grew apart, stayed in touch but only infrequently, etc. so she invited me to the wedding, and I'm not super-thrilled about going. it's only a 2 hour bus ride, but it's the weekend before christmas. what's more, the whole thing is kind of last-minute, not in her hometown, etc., because her fiance is in the army and has some kind of whirlwind training schedule lined up.

there are lots of things that are weirding me out (I haven't seen her in years, she's planning to drop her career and travel from base to base with Dear Hubby, we don't seem to have much in common any more), but lately, the more I think about it, the more I'm very freaked out about the fact that he's in the military. she loves him, fine - I've never met him - but I was raised by a few generations of conscientious objectors, and I've spent more hours than I can count at anti-war protests, and while I understand the difference between individual human soldiers and the war machine itself, it still makes me queasy. I feel like I SHOULD go. but I really don't WANT to, and I have no idea what the hell I'd say to this guy whose mission in life is, well, to kill people (a mission to which I'm fundamentally opposed).

oy. maybe I'm just a selfish brat.

also, jeez, I don't mean to offend any busties who are in the military or whose friends and family are. I hope I don't sound like an asshole. I'm just feeling stupid and conflicted.
I know that I'm new to the board, but I really have a badger to throw off my chest. My best friend of four years has stopped speaking to me in the last two weeks. After side-stepping my calls and myspace pleas, she finally told me that my relationship with my boyfriend has been getting to her. My boyfriend and I have been together as long as my best friend and I have been friends, but she told me that recently she can't take it anymore. She said she hates how I put him first, yet I refer to her as "First Wife" and my boyfriend as "Second Wife". My boyfriend has no qualms about the time I spend out with the girls. However, I'm increasingly more inclined to spend my time with him because of the drama involved with my female friends. Why is it that females feel the need to cultivate drama and rise against one another? I have yet to find a female friend that hasn't. Do we all stand alone in a sea of our own?
QUOTE(thelittlewhitebird @ Aug 28 2006, 09:35 PM) *

However, I'm increasingly more inclined to spend my time with him because of the drama involved with my female friends. Why is it that females feel the need to cultivate drama and rise against one another? I have yet to find a female friend that hasn't. Do we all stand alone in a sea of our own?

little white, i can really relate. for my first few years in NYC, i was not in a stable relationship, and therefore cultivated a close group of single female friends (or women dating unavailable men who spent most of the time with the girls). when i finally got into a good relationship, instead of being happy for me, i got a lot of passive-aggressive catty remarks, and one girl just stopped calling, and magically pretended that she wasn't my best friend, just someone she knew from the neighborhood, when i saw her out with her new friends.

it's a hard transition---i always thought of myself as a girl's girl, a woman-loving feminist, but women can be damn bitchy. I've also dealt with women flirting with my boyfriend, competative wieght/diet issues, and one-girl-upmanship around money and careers. even with my best friends, there's often some underlying competitiveness and schaudenfreude (spelling?).
There's an attitude that a skinniest women with the most money should get the most ... the best .... all ... men.

And it's not true, life doesn't work that way, men don't care as much if a woman is wearing expensive clothes or she spends the whole day eating nothing but sushi and green tea.

They want a woman who is reasonably healthy and happy and good looking and fun, cute little t and a, lots of long hair to play with, who seems to like men, and sex, and people, is not all about the benjamins but has enough to support herself so she's not just a big needy leech, someone who's presentable to their friends and fairly honest and kind and won't be too bitchy at every single restaurant and knows something about music and current events and sports. And she doesn't necessarily have to clean for them, but she shouldn't be a total hog.

And .... that's it. That's the kind of woman who has good relationships and "gets" the man.

Women are encouraged to think and say that only wealthy women deserve wealthy men, because poorer women are just ho's after his money -- although, women with millions to their name can be and often are just after a guys' money too. Women are encouraged to think that weight and clothing and beauty treatments and fuss fuss fuss fuss will get them love and status, because that's how mainstrream New York fashion magazines make their living -- providing customers for all the hairdressers, spas, clothing designers, jewelry makers, and formerly lowly cobblers in town, so they will buy advertising.

Meanwhile, on the train in today, I saw a woman with an organza skirt with little shirrings of beads hanging off it -- this was at 8:30 in the mofo morning, not at a charity ball -- and large, what seemed to be plastic pearls, and her hair was all chopped off and spiked up, and she gave me the most god-awful steely, bitchy rigid look, like, don't stare at my chothes, they're EXPENSIVE.

And that's the kind of woman who will say, Men are such wimps, they're just INTIMIDATED by me, and you went and kissed his ass and you're weak that's why YOU got one, and is that a roll of fat I see?

And they are right, most men don't want to go out with drill sargents. Unless they're gay and have a fetish and have found themselves a REAL bona fide drill sargent wink.gif
huh. it is true that what we see as being most atractive to men does not really reflect patterns of partner happiness. i know a lot of women that aren't thin or well dressed (myself included) that have loving relationships. we're just nice, and have a decent sense of humor. i wish i had known that when i was 12 years old and though 'TEEN and YM were the bible.

just hung out last night with one of my old friends. we went out to eat, and she didn't say anything about what i was eating, and i tried not to obsess about when the shoe was going to drop. maybe she go the message from me not calling for so long? or is that passive agressive?

Hey, I have short hair and Mr.Luci loves it! wink.gif
Cool. I wondered if that post was too obnoxious in some way, but it's true. Congratulations on your friend not commenting on what you were eating.

I knew so many otherwise fairly nice women that freaked out whenever food was at a social event. I even stopped seeing a group of avowed "feminists" because of that. We were supposed to all have a potluck dinner on the Friday on or before the full moon every month. Well, it was a disaster.

The issues included: vegetarian versus non-vegetarian versus vegan. Alcohol or no alcohol. Splurge on fattening foods or accomodate those who don't want the goshdarn tempation ("You can't bring cookies anymore, because I'll eat too many of them"). It was godawfully unpleasant. My opinion is that if 10 to 30 people are bringing food and drink, that there will be enough food for anybody's taste, and we could have a variety without imposing control, conformity, and criticism on each other. Simple politeness demands that one would simply say "thank you" to each guest for what they brought. But NO!

I've also stopped seeing "restaurant prima donnas" who make the wait staff and fellow table patrons suffer through endless quizzing of ingredients and fussy demands about sides and sauces and substitutions, and continual whining. Sure, I'll send the dish back if they give me pork when I ordered chicken, or if they out and out BURNED it, but I'm not going to sit there calculating and fuming and scamming to get the finest food for the tiniest penny. It's not "just the way everybody is in restaurants" or "just being ASSERTIVE."

I'm assertive when appropriate. As a former waitress, bakery worker, retail worker, etc,., I know that actually only two percent of customers are that much of a pain in the rear. And I don't have to volunteer to be the one sitting with them. Life is too short.

wombat-i relate-almost everyone i know has some food or beverage they won't put in their mouths (myself included), which can make dinner parties/birthdays shitty if people can't suck it up if there is meat/alcohol/sugar/coffee present.
i wish women (because it usually is) could make ther self-care/lifestyle choices in an affirming way without feeling that they have to tear other people's down.

and lucizoe-yeah, i know a lot of guys who dig short hair. i always wonder where that whole long hair only deal came from.

Seriously, I think our culture coddles people too much and that is why some think they are perfectly okay to demand that certain things not be around them, for they may be tempted to eat and drink them. If you cannot control your own whims and temptations, that's YOUR problem.

I also think some women think it is cute to be high maintenance.

I have a friend who is overweight, I never really thought it mattered because she is CRAZY HOT, I mean, really stunning. But, she grew up with a mom who had weight issues and was not nice, consequently, she now has a weird and unhealthy relationship with food. We will go out to eat at places that just do not have
"healthy" options. ONe time while at a place liek this, she was trying to decide what to order, and went for a Cobb (not healthy) salad, because she did not want to splurge on a burger. I said, it really did not matter and to go for the burger if that is what she really, really wanted, because there is not much difference between the two on teh caloric/fat gram scale.

A week later I found out she was seriously pissed at me over that? Was it insensitive?
well a cobb salad can be much healthier then a burger if you take out the bacon and get low far dressing. even the cheese doesnt add that much. but no i would think shes being oversensitive GGG.
I don't think you were out of line, ggg, because some salads truly are as fattening as burgers. Especially when you see people gooping on the dressings and fruit and pasta and croutons. Just have a burger or a sundae and be done with it.

Same as people who have giant smoothie drinks -- they have a ton of calories -- it's healthy food but just too much of it.

I'm not condemning people who eat that stuff, I'm just saying, it's not a weight loss solution.

I did feel bad when I had an eclair one time - I mean, this was when I was young and athletic and a total sugar freak and I didn't think twice about getting an eclair with lunch, and I was with a woman who was a little overweight, but I didn't think she minded. She definitely didn't look bad or anything and I never would have assumed that she was dieting or felt she should. but she just kept staring and staring at my eclair -- I didn't really want to split it in half either. Finally she got one, but she went throught this whole Hamlet like conflict speeech -- I felt bad, honest to god. I mean, I now am the one who is overweight and won't eat sweets, but I'm okay with it cause I don't want them any more.

QUOTE(girlygirlgag @ Sep 13 2006, 01:03 PM) *

I also think some women think it is cute to be high maintenance.

yeah, i know a lot of women who are "rules girls" and who feel that being high maintenance makes people think that they are hot properties to be adored and catered to. or something like that. so fucking obnoxious.

maybe i'm just jealous because i'm cringingly low-maintenance.
GGG, she's totally being oversensitive. You were only thinking of her and making a suggestion for the love of mike.

I can't believe people expect others to manage their temptations for them.
Word on people controlling their own cravings!

Also, I believe a lot of women do the high maintenance, pain in the butt to service people thing as a statement of their importance, status and power -- as a type of cutesy, catty aggression.

My friend Daniel and I were in a coffee shop behind a woman who had one of those god-awful coffee orders:
I'll have an iced lattecino with half-caf and half-decaf and just a tiny amount of steamed 1 percent milk and two and a HALF sweet and lows and only five ice-cubes.

I found that very annoying, and when he wondered why, I noted her gloating, malicious smirk of glee at holding everyone up and how proud she was that she was going to get something exactly *her* way, because she wasn't feminine, working-class (read: submissive, timid, WEAK of course) to settle for less or to have any consideration, and she was proudly demonstrating that everywhre she went.

He then recalled how annoyed he was with a former girlfriend who used her aggression that way: she would say, "I want coffee" and then stop and stare at them supercilously -- she could NOT SAY how she wanted it or whether it was for here or to go until they asked her, because it was their job to ask her, it was their role as servers, and she wasn't going to let them get away with not asking.


That is the kind of woman who stops and waits at a door, and mows you down when you open it from the other side, even if she is carrying nothing in her hands, with a frigid, nasty look down her nose.

QUOTE(thereshegoes @ Sep 13 2006, 10:32 PM) *

yeah, i know a lot of women who are "rules girls" and who feel that being high maintenance makes people think that they are hot properties to be adored and catered to. or something like that. so fucking obnoxious.

maybe i'm just jealous because i'm cringingly low-maintenance.

No kidding.

My rules:
NEVER touch my armpits
I am a no Phil Collins Zone

Pretty simple really.
Haha! That's great, ggg.

I can deal with Phil Collins, it's "Sting" I can't stand.
Yeah, I love the Police, but I want to smack Sting...........

i now have this wonderful image of sting getting shit kicked out of him by ggg's avatar. laugh.gif

I'm not low-maintenance as far as relationships go because i'm a bundle of insecurities, but you know, if you wanna eat cake, eat cake. it shouldn't be an issue between friends. I'm pretty low-maintenance in every other direction though.

And i'm usually nice to servers because i've done that and been shouted at and it's not fun. It doesn't do any harm to be polite to someone who's earning the minimum wage and is on thier feet all day. If anything they'll be more helpful.
I'm afraid that sounded as pissy as I feel today -- I'm putting a big portfolio and resume together which is never fun, so I'm feeling defensive much.

I don't mean to sound anti-upper-middle-class-female however -- I have been one, off and on.

Some of my ex-aquaintances seem maniacal about trying to prove themselves mistresses of the universe, though. Meanwhile, many of the most genuinely accomplished, affluent and fortunate women are lovely to be around.

It has something to do with *striving* and *image* which, we all care about, I guess, but...
i've worked many service positions and have noticed it among all classes and creeds.

my new bone---folks who just talk about themselves for an hour +, and then bail. i know i'm a good listener, but jeez. . .
I need a little advice.

Long story short- old friend from HS. We were both excellent runners, but not in the same events. We never competed directly. It was a good thing. Now, in other aspects of our lives, we were always competing. We had a sort love-hate friendship. Do you know the type? We were estranged for several years after graduation due to many things, one being the fact that a boyfriend of mine had cheated on me with her. I always had the sense that she was just always out to get what I had, at whatever cost. I cant put my finger on it. But a couple years ago, we reconciled our friendship to a degree. I cant say that I fully trusted her again, but I saw that she had matured quite a bit and was really being a good friend to me through some rough times. In the meantime, she had started running again- distance this time. She was in excellent shape. I, on the other hand, was in the worst shape of my life... 20 lbs overweight, not runnning.

So in August of this year, I started running agian. A few weeks later, she volunteered to run with me in my first 5k in 9 years! Nice of her. But the problem was that I beat her. After 2 years of her running and literally 2 weeks of mine, this did not sit well with her. I didnt pick up on it. But after our second race together, I started to get susupicious. She started flaking out on our running dates, for me to find out that she was going running with other people and not inviting me.

Yesterday, another friend of mine was talking to the friend's husband and ended up talking about the race that we had all done. He spilled the beans to her that She was totally pissed that I was beating her after she had been running for so long, I had not, yadda yadda.... and that she was training really hard to be able to beat me the next time. His words indicated that it wasnt so much a friendly competition, but more a bitter rivalry that was really getting her fired up.

There are a few reasons this insults me. As my friend, shouldnt she be supportive of me, and happy for me, that I'm FINALLY getting back into shape. And I'm not even at my ideal body weight. Ive shed about 10 of my extra 20. If she were my friend, she should support my efforts and not add the negative to it. And I will admit that I joke about how devastated that I would be if she beats me. I mean, she was the sprinter, I was the distance runner. So it stands to reason that I just have more natural talent in that department. But still... if she beat me, I would say she earned it from the years of running she has done recently. Yes, it might motivate me to train harder. But I certainly wouldnt complain about it in a negative manner.

Alright! I could ramble on. But the point is that my feelings are hurt. Should I address it with her in a non-confrontational way, letting her know that it bothers me, or should I just let a sleeping dog lie? I mean, I know we're all adults here. I can just ignore it and be ok. But I dont feel like I can trust her at all now. Why does it feel like I'm still in this "high school" relationship with her? I certainly dont want to be!
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