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Moving to T.O.? Gimme a shout when you get here. biggrin.gif

I read this article awhile ago - I'm trying to find it - re: the increase in U.K. obesity rates among children and teens and one of the main points was that while of course what we eat is important, the trend toward shitty eating has existed for a quite awhile now. The sharp upturn in the last twenty years or so, the article claimed, is mostly the result of an increasingly video gamed, pedestrian-indifferent culture in which teenagers simply aren't moving as much as they did before (and not getting enough sleep either, which is just as important).

The sleep aspect is so important! I find it kind of funny that it's just coming out as news now. I mean, it makes sense. Our bodies need energy, if we don't get energy from sleep then our bodies will look for it elsewhere, like food. I try to get decent amounts of sleep but I still find it a bit difficult at times.
QUOTE(Beauty & her Bass @ Jan 25 2007, 07:54 PM) *

Anyone know of some good greens? Everything at the market looks scary and science-lab grown. Nothing tastes good. My taste buds need help.

Hey Beauty, I can't tell you where exactly but I can suggest a couple places to look. I'd suggest calling local farms and seeing where they sell their fresh products. Most should have carrots, apples, other root type vegetables stored (which taste just as good as in summer and better than what you'll find in the stores, and they won't have travelled hundreds of miles) as well, you should be able to find a farm or two with greenhouses that are growing fresh greens. So to find out which farms are doing this and where has the better food (ie. organic) this link should take you to a searchable database of farms, or contact your local health food store and they can probably hook you up. And if you're looking for good cheap organics, see if there's a local Good Food Box program in your community. They offer a food bin of organic produce for a set price that is generally affordable.

Good luck!!! Winter can be hard. I'm pretty fortunate here that we have an amazing farm nearby that is still producing greens and such in their greenhouses, and considering it was minus 30 last week (celsius) I'm incredibly amazed!
If you have access to a good food box or organic food box program in your city, I highly recommend them. They support local farmers as much as possible (in winter it's hard to do that just because not much grows in many colder areas) and you often can't beat the prices on the fresh produce. Some will even deliver organic dairy products to you too.

Other than that, the not in season/not on the menu strategy works too--winter greens include things like leeks, beets/turnips/rutabegas/carrots/parsnips, cabbages and brussels sprouts and in milder cold climates various broccoli type plants such as the heartier varieties of broccoli and their rabe. You can augment with things like sweet potatoes and other kinds of potatoes in moderation, if you like; they're always available.

Fresh leafy greens that are grown in greenhouses can be a nice boost--baby lettuces (like mesclun), frisee, baby spinach, and even stuff that's hydroponically grown like boston lettuce is usually available (though I do know that not all hydroponic growers are "organic" necessarily). Better still, you can usually set yourself up to grow these greens easily yourself. Mesclun takes about 2 weeks to begin to show and then it grows pretty quickly after that; and you can grow it indoors or in a cold box, if you're into that kind of thing. Each time you cut some for salads or for cooked greens or soup greens, just re-seed your planter and you'll have a steady supply.

CC Girl--researchers who study Sleep Apnea have been saying for years that Apnea is not the result of being overweight; apnea and other forms of repeatedly interrupted sleep cause weight gain.
All good points in here! Wow!!

MMMM root vegetables, simmered with canned peeled tomatoes -- really hearty and no side-taste, here in the US -- and or any kind of protein. And spices. A soup or a stew. So good!!

We always make sure we buy green vegetables and try to go for the cruciferous, which are so important.

We *STEAM* broccoli with fresh water in a steam basket. The key is very short cooking times, don't make them fllaccid and lose all their flavor and vitamins.

Also REALLY important to get the timing right on Brussels Sprouts -- cook them right and they are delicious and moist, cook them just a hair too little or too much and they are disgusting.

Sometimes we change it up with kale or asparagus.

Lettuce -- I just deal. I got sick of arugula -- I call that the "small woodland creature salad" Green Leaf lettuce stays fresh the longest and is less fibrous that Romaine. I also sometime buy endive or the lovely little "Boston lettuce" although they ARE a bit dry this time of year.
wow, i go away for a few days and this thread is hopping! Really great tips, everyone! Chacha, I just went to the supermarket armed with your snack list. I valiantly resisted the crackers and chips. They were calling to me, though.

For xmas, I got the book How to Cook Everything by Mark Bittman, which is full of really good, mostly simple, healthy foods. I definitely recommend it. Tonight, for dinner, I decided to make his recipe for greens sauteed with currants (I used raisins) and pine nuts. Omigod, it was so. good. I think I'l actually have seconds. Seconds of kale. This is definitely a first for me. I also grilled up a bunch of chicken breasts, which will be good for lunches. The new semester starts back up this week, so I wanted to be ready with some good foods.
Luna - that's also my favorite cookbook ever! Its an all around great reference book...and I'll have to look up the kale recipe, as I'm always looking for new recipes. My favorite is to briefly steam the kale, then saute it briefly with a little olive oil, shallot, then add lemon zest soy sauce and the merest drizzle of honey...dee-licious!

I think I'm going to go with wombat's idea and do my morroccan veg stew tomorrow - basically toss any and all veggies you have in a pot, add some tomato sauce, cinnamon, allspice and add steamed sweet potato cubes at the end. So good and filling. Thanks for the idea, wombat - I was getting stumped for my sunday soup!
Oh, so yummy!! Pan wilted greens with garlic, dried fruit, and pine nuts, with a little bit of balsamic vinegar or lemon juice....this is like the comforty food my mom used to make us when I was little. I used to love dandelion greens made this way--kale, spinach, all kinds of greens. My husband used to think I was insane because I would say, "I love dandelion!!" and bring it home whenever I could find it for sale. Of course, now he loves it. And dandelions should be coming along soon in the markets... I love that bitter/sweet/sour combination (and if you want to make a little bit more substantial meal out of it, just add some orecchietti pasta).

Speaking of my hubby, he made an amazing tagine for dinner last night. I love coming home to delicious aromas of dinner that's already being made!!
Yeah! I'm really happy to have found something to do with greens - I know I should eat them more, but so far, I had only managed to sneak them into pasta sauces (which, by the way, is a really good way to make a sauce more substantial) or spinach in salad. I think I'll bring the leftovers to school tomorrow to have as a salad, maybe with a bit of this awesome goat cheese I have.

Today I've got a beef stew in the crockpot. My roommate is cracking up at me: she's probably wondering what happened to the drinking-till-2:00-AM, TV-watching-in-PJs-all-day, hangover-nursing, pizza-ordering Weekend Lunasol she knows. Well, she'll probably make a reappearance sometime this semester, but for now I'm enjoying feeling a bit virtuous. wink.gif
chacha, i love dandelion so much! where i grew up, it's totally common as a salat. you can buy it in stores, and people search for dandelion in the meadow. in spring, my parents eat it every week. but I can't get it here in hamburg, and nobody seems to know that you can actually eat it sad.gif i am wondering if i could just go to a park and pick it...?! i never had it with pasta, but dandelion is just great with fried potatoes. i also love to sprinkle some parmesan over it. parmesan is good with arugula, too. the taste of arugula reminds me a bit of dandelion.

talking about kale and root veggies: i made a kohlrabi salat today. just grate a kohlrabi and add some nice dressing. i mixed some mustard, olive oil, yogurt, soy milk, salt, pepper and basil. yummi. for dinner, i had root celery "cutlets" (or "schnitzel"- here is a picture). you can either just fry some slices of root celery (cover the pan), or coat it with breadcrumps before frying.

today, i worked out on my bike for 40 minuts. i already feel so much better now and i've lost 9 pounds this month (*wow*) - just by eating better, and less snacking, sweets, etc., and working out. while writing, i just got an email anouncing new courses at my universities sports program. and i am going to check them out for yoga classes right now!
whoa! smile.gif

so i was pretty good about going to the gym every day earlier this week (well thursday i didn't go to the gym but i took a long, 45-minute walk around my neighborhood, up and down hills) but i slacked off and didn't do anything friday or yesterday, and last night it was my friends' birthday at a bar and i ended up consuming two vodka grapefruits AND two potato tacos, so when i went to the gym today i got on the scale with trepidation totally expecting to have gained since wednesday--when in fact i had lost about a pound and a half, making that nearly four pounds in a week. go me!

i think it actually was good to take a day or two off and let my muscles rest, because wednesday i was having a really tough time even doing just a half an hour on the elliptical, but today i did 45 minutes and didn't even feel winded. plus i was able to move two of the weight machines up (down?) a notch. woo!

if i keep going like this, i could be back to where i want to be in a couple of months! my goal is 10-20 lbs, and just to be in better shape.
Once apon a time not too long ago, my friend Steve told me about something his fitness guru then-girlfriend had been working on: which was using weight training in such a way that your muscles would still be effectively building themselves and consuming stored energy even though you didn't work out every day. In fact, working out every day actually didn't speed the process.

Why don't I write these things down when I'm learning about them!!!!!????!!!!! I must pester him to remember what it was she was researching. Because I think there is definitely something to the idea of rest furthering muscle mass conversion and weight loss.

Want to pick dandelions? You can--it's just best to make sure you're picking the greens from grassy areas which haven't been sprayed with herbicides and pesticides. Also, the plants have to be picked before they flower, or they'll be too bitter to be consumed. Hamburg I also love arugula and parmiggiano--just like that, with maybe some olive oil, salt, and some lemon juice. Perhaps some sliced fresh mushrooms and some fresh ground pepper. I could eat pounds of that salad it's so good. Raw dandelion greens are also just unbelievably good in salad.

I hope you find lots of it out there soon, as the season's coming, I know (and I remember my mom and my aunts running out to "harvest" dandelions from lawns they knew hadn't been sprayed--they'd tell each other and they'd all go together to get some, with plastic bags and knives in hand. It looked completely bizarre!)

Congratulations to everyone for doing so well!
I've read that it's good to take days off to let your muscles recover a bit. Alternating which muscle groups you work out each day can be good for that, but sometimes you just plain need a day off.

erinjane, if you've not yet attended your Bikram's yoga class, my advice is to make sure that you are very well hydrated before and after. I try to drink a minimum of 3 or 4 liters of water each day and also do some stuff like drink Emergen-C to replace electrolytes because I sweat like a damned pig at Bikram classes. And don't be discouraged if it seems really challenging. Everyone is encouraged to go at their own pace, and if you keep going, you will probably be amazed at how quickly you progress.

I dabbled at Bikram yoga several years ago, and I just started going again in Dec. I've managed to fit in about 4 classes a week since Dec 6, and I am kind of blown away at how much my body's changed and toned up. I've got visible muscle definition in my arms and abs now! The asana called "awkward pose" has given me thighs of steel! Ok, maybe not thighs of steel, but you can see the quadriceps and a lot of that cottage-cheesey thigh stuff is gone.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy it, ej!
I've never really heard of eating dandelions before.

I actually read something similar about the exercise thing, chacha. I was just reading that it's better to exercise every other day and give your muscles a rest in between rather than to work out every single day.

I've been a bit discourage lately. I made some really bad food choices yesterday and today and sometimes I just feel like I'm never going to get in shape. Also the weather here just makes me not want to go outside. It's supposed to be like, -18 tomorrow. blah.
I think it helps to think of the whole process on a continuum--not on a daily basis of succeeding and "failing", because that's just such a defeating term and it really can't apply to what we're doing.

There isn't always 100% control over every detail in life, and that applies to food. Sure there are great decisions you can make, and there are ways to make the process of "deciding" among foods easier, or at least more likely to bring about your goal. But there will always be reasons why all that control simply isn't going to apply in every situation. So, you might have to eat something you wanted to avoid, because you know it will be a challenge to you and to your goal. You may be in a state where your body's craving specific foods and you really should have some to contend with that need--and then go back to your plans and strategies again once that's done. There's also the fact that food is inseparable from our social interaction--sooner or later you have to eat a meal with others, and it might be important to you that you have the same foods. There's no way around this--so we should just anticipate it, make room for it as a temporary change, and then go back to what we were doing before.

It has to be acknowledged that living on a completely restricted diet is going to create some problems with control, and that shouldn't result in us beating ourselves up about it. That ends up being so counterproductive because we then spend a lot of time feeling worthless, when in reality our worth as human beings has nothing to do with a food choice.

Cultivating the mindset which allows you to deal with the occasional lapse as something expected and actually built-in to the process allows you to mentally stay focused. Don't doubt that you'll ever reach your goal--know that your goal is always in sight and it's just a matter of time before you've reached it and you're satisfied with your efforts. I think this is a huge part of the struggle to change our habits--we're somehow conned into thinking that once we deviate from the "diet plan" our weakness has overtaken us and we can't possibly reach the goal; when really we should be trying to figure out how to actually live in the real world, where on occasion we'll be treated to foods that are indulgent, or festive, or just plain full of all the things you're trying to avoid in order to lose weight. The real trick is to let yourself have some of this stuff, and then go back to eating the less fabulous, but still really good, food that you're choosing in order to restore your health and/or slim down to your desired weight.
i agree with not working out every day, but last week i barely exercised at all because i had the stomach flu, and now that i am feeling better i have zero motivation to go to the gym. i was doing so good going on a regular basis, you'd think my body would miss it or something.
Beauty & her Bass
I worked with a physical trainer about a year and a half ago to try and get me on track. She told me that cardio every day is a must, but when taking classes or weight training, to make sure that you only work one muscle group at a time and give a day or two rest (depending on the length and difficulty of the workout) between groups.

My basic work-out plan is:
Monday - 30 min elliptical and legs
Tuesday - 1 hour cardio class and arms
Wednesday - 40 min elliptical and back
Thursday - 1 hour Pilates (core section/abs) and maybe 15 min elliptical (if I'm not too tired)
Friday - 45 min elliptical and full body...I usually max out my weight on Friday so my weight training doesn't last quite as long as usual.
Saturday & Sunday - rest

I used to enjoy going for a nice slow walk with my boyfriend on Saturdays...but it's way too cold to last more than 20 min outside right now. This whole below 0 bull sucks. I'm going to start making Mr. B&HB do yoga with me on Sunday's though. I'm usually a little less sore from my Friday workout by then and the stretch will feel so good.

As for eating...I fell off the wagon again this weekend. Ugh. Beer, fried chicken, pizza, fries and chili with ground beef. Not one of my shinning moments. Oh well, I just have to work that much harder this week I guess!
I was always told that you shouldn't do arms/legs one day after another but that stomach (and accompanying back exercises - i.e., complementary to the stomach ones, and not, say, building upper back muscles) were fine.

I try (not always succesfully) to get in a bit of cardio every day (even if I don't do a proper workout, I try to walk and/or dance to some music) and I do stomach/legs one day, stomach/arms the other - it usually only works out to 3 - 4 days a week of muscle work. If I only have the time (or the inclination) to do one thing, I make it cardio. But as I've been saying for eons, I don't switch it up enough, and I've been stagnating. I just can't afford a gym membership and it's too cold to start running (I have a stationary bike at home; if I try to incorporate more walking into my routine, I just get off a subway stop earlier when it's not too freezing). I could buy some books/videos or take them out of the library, but I'm paranoid about learning bad form.
Thanks for the advice, edna.
I actually went on Friday and it was great. I seemed to have a much easier time than my friend who is a dancer which surprised me (highland dancing though, not ballet). She had a really difficult time balancing. Someone suggested it's because I have a lower centre of gravity but I couldn't tell if they were joking. I'm 4'11, she's 5'8. I wasn't too sore the next day either. Mostly my shoulders and neck, but I have neck problems so it's always sore.

We're going again this friday.
yeah, i do the weight machines every other day. but i was doing half an hour on the treadmill or elliptical every day. i think also once your body gets the message that you're using more energy, your metabolism kicks into high gear, which is probably why i ended up losing weight over those two days that i didn't go to the gym.

I'm happy to see this thread turning to the topic of weight training. ('Cause now I have something to contribute! Forgive me if I go overboard enthusiastic about this.)

I've been lifting for maybe eight months now and what I've learned from reading/my trainer/experience is this: You can easily and safely lift weights every day. The key, as beauty and others have mentioned, is to not train the same muscles every day-- give a group 72 hours before you work it again. The trick is, you have to know which muscles are being worked in a given exercise, because there is almost always a primary group as well as a secondary (assist) group. So, say, if you're benchpressing, the primary group is the pecs (chest) but the secondary is the triceps. They get a good workout too, and you wouldn't want to slam them hard the day after.

Also, there's a distinction to be made here between weight lifting for strength/endurance, and lifting for muscle mass. If you're just trying to get some muscle tone, and thus doing a lot of reps per set with pretty light weights, it's actually fine to give your muscles less than that 72 hour recovery time. If, however, you're really pushing it, lifting heavy weights for a low number of reps, that's when it's really important to have that rest time. The reason is that you're actually breaking down the muscle tissue and it needs a chance to re-grow, stronger. A good general rule is that if your muscles are still sore from the last workout session, don't hit them hard again yet.

I bet the reaon that snafooey heard it's okay to work abs and back/core muscles every day is because people usually don't try to bulk up their midsections, and thus are usually doing those high reps, low weight routines with those muscle groups. (They're not pushing it w/ heavy weight, breaking down tissue, and needing rest to rebuild it.

If anyone else wants to keep chatting in here about weight training, I'd be happy to join the conversation!

On another note, I loved what chacha said about seeing getting off the fitness/health wagon as something actually built into the process, and not a sign of Failure.


Oooh, weight training. Although I read not to go to the gym everyday there were times when I would go two days in a row. I would always do cardio and then work my upper body one day and my lower body the next day.

I'm just curious about mixing it up though. I keep reading that it's bad to stick to the same routine for more than two months because the body gets used to it and then there is less of a benefit. But does that apply to weight training or just cardio workouts?
Candycane, that's a good point: the thing about mixing it up definitely applies to weight training. (Weightlifters call it a "plateau".) Also, it's better to do stuff with free weights (dumbbells, barbells, etc) instead of machines, because your body has to work harder and engage more muscle groups to stabilize itself when you're using free weights. A machine takes care of all that for you and makes it easier.
Wow, turbo, great food ideas as always! You guys have got me wanting to try dandelions now.

When I lived in the country, we would go and pick fiddleheads!! The ones in the supermarket are kind of brown and stringy --- eee.

I like the idea of maybe doing different muscle groups. I was doing the whole circuit of weightlifting two or three times a week, and going up to heavier weights.

And just doing the elliptical two or three times a week -- but I felt burnt out at the end of each sesson, plus it would take 2 or 3 hours all told.

I got sick of weightlifting and was just doing elliptical 5 or 6 days a week and yoga.

but, oh, that idea about the working on just some parts of the body -- change it up -- that is great.

Thanks to mouse and _octinoxate
Fiddleheads are wonderful--but the season is exactly 25 minutes long. There's another wild green that I love from the area you're from, Wombat, and I only know the french name for it--which translates to "the nun's nipple". They look like tiny sorrel-like greens, and they grow in places similar to where you'd find fiddleheads--but you have to know what you're looking for (and that's where I get nervous if I'm not so familiar with a place). With any kind of wild green, you really do only have a very short time to find them and bring them in--a day or two too late, and they've flowered or become too woody, so they're no longer good. The greens from from the fireweed plant is another example--yummy when fresh and young, bleh when ready to flower, and ever afterwards.

Well, fiddleheads will be here soon.

It's so great to read Octinoxate's expertise on workouts, specifically weight training. I can tell you're getting better, my dear! So happy to see it.
Mmmm.....fiddleheads...wombat and chacha, you make me drool! I LOVE those, and growing up in the middle of a state park, I have fond memories of going fiddlehead picking, as well as wild strawberries, raspberries, blueberries, and in the fall...buckets of morels. Sometimes, I scratch my head wondering how I ended up so happy as an urbanite! I've not even seen a single fiddlehead since I moved to chicago. sad.gif

I need to get back on the weight training too...I hate weights, so I tend to avoid them...I'm good about cardio, at least. As soon as turbomann is employed, I think I'll go back to my trainer, and get a routine started. I know I'm much more likely to keep up with a weight regimen if I'm accountable to someone too.
My dad and his dad and his dad before him grew up in New England and were farmers and hunters. So knew all the plants. A friend of my dad's knew about mushrooms -- cause you sure sure sure better know a lot about them to eat them. We were driving down the street and he saw a fungus that looked like a piece of pizza, on the branch of a tree.

"Stop the car!!! I can't BELIEVE nobody has taken this!!"

It was huge, some kind of fancy rare mushroom that fed us all. And tasted like lobster.


Gym. I know what to do -- and maybe the switching up muscle groups will allow me to weightlift and do the aerobic stuff without it taking forever and wiping me out.


I need to mount a whole bunch of stuff to my web site, redoing some of it, and fast, and how. Money/time continuum is getting to the cut off point. I was trying to do both -- not give up anything "normal" in life to get this project done -- but -- for now, for a week. Maybe two. Maybe three.


I'll be back soon enough, though.
mmm....fiddleheads. Mouthwatering. yesterday my parents picked up tons and tons of fruits and veggies so I'm stocking up on soups.
Chacha, thanks for that positive energy. I think in general I'm on the up, but there are still backslides and discouragement and such. For a while now a couple of my docs (and others in my life) have been suggesting that I go on antidepressants to help me deal with this and other stuff better and thus aide in my recovery, and I finally took the plunge and did it, last night (in spite of my long-standing reluctance to take any sort of meds/drugs)... the idea being that healthy body and healthy mind are so connected that maybe by working on the mind part it will help the body. We'll see if that's the case...
I'm convinced that everytime I come in here someone is talking about a fruit or vegetable that I've never heard of before. What exactly are fiddleheads?

I haven't been to the gym in 3 weeks. I am honestly trying to get myself out there but it's damn cold. On the plus side, at least I've actually been feeling like I want to get moving rather than just sitting around like a lump on a log.
Octi, I completely understand your reticence about the meds...and I understand your making a decision to just go ahead and try them. There is absolutely a connection between body and mind--and soul is in there too, that's a big part of health but we don't acknowledge it for some reason. It's a step that may really help you, and you can always change things if you don't like the outcome so much. I just think it's so wonderful to know that you're focused and moving in a much more healthy direction. You're young, you're energetic and full of all kinds of potential, it's really inspiring to read that you're actively doing all you can to restore your health. I believe you'll be better than ever before you know it.


IPB Image

You usually have to cook these in a couple of changes of water to get all the tannins out (which makes them bitter); but after that they're tender and taste a bit like asparagus. You can make a soup out of them, cover them with hollandaise sauce, or use them to make all kinds of greens dishes. They're good tossed with olive oil and a little bit of really good balsamic vinegar, and used to dress pasta.
Beauty & her Bass
argh. I have been working such crapy hours this week. by the time I get home, it's usually fairly late (9:30 last night) and the Y is either closed or by the time I get there, I won't even be able to get in a full 30 min cardio. I know I should be doing other stuff but I just want to sleep when I get home. Any hints/tips? Working out in the mornings works sometimes but when I work so late i find it really hard to get out of bed in the morning. I just want some quiet time.

what the hell happened?! I didn't realize my workout schedule could be thrown so far off so easily!
Yep, Beauty - the workout schedule is usually the first thing to go in my life when things get hectic, I'm sad to say. I usually try to balance it out with a walk at lunchtime, and taking the dog for a longer walk in the evenings when I get home...I can pretty much get to the gym twice a week for specific classes I'm pretty committed to, but getting to the gym that extra time each week for weights - much more difficult for me.
apparently i have not actually lost as much as i thought i had--or rather, i've gained it back (which doesn't make sense cos i've been eating really well and exercising almost every day). i think it was because when i weighed myself on sunday i hadn't eaten much yet that day. anyway, i'm back up about three pounds, apparently. fahk. this always happens--i just forgot. it's virtually impossible for me to lose weight.
mouse....what about if you stop weighing yourself, and just go by how your clothes are fitting?! I know I used to get really obsessed with the weekly weigh in at the gym, so I'd just monitor how my clothes fit...I think focusing on the numbers can inhibit weight loss...its like you're daring the weight to sit there on your hips...or maybe that's just me. tongue.gif

I'm weighing myself right now just because I'm doing the south beach experiment, and just seeing how big a difference it makes...I don't care much if I lose any more weight at this point...I'm happy where I am, but also curious about what'll happen next in the more lenient phases of the diet. I'm such a nutrition nerd.
Word on the "clothes fitting" measurement.

I'll get back to the gym soon **sigh!**

It's just that I have to redo my old stuff from a couple years ago to make it mesh with this endlessly adaptable print-o-sphere we now have in the last couple years. Some stuff won't port onto my dual-core, and the other stuff needs serveral versions to make it okay with web and mobile and PDF formats. Soooooooooooooooo it is looooooong. Tons of good opportunities and connections are motivating me, so that's the upside.

Me and the guy are eating well, though, it really helps to have both halves of the couple committed to it.

Shouldn't gain TOO much.

I notice the difference, though, even though I wasn't getting results as big or as fast as i wanted them to be -- in many subtle ways it really does do good things.

One small point: I can stand up from a chair without using my hands or arms. Just curl and stand up!

I agree about not weighing yourself. I'm pretty sure this has been said before in this thread, but weight fluctuates throughout the day and month naturally. If you are going to weigh yourself i'd do it once every two weeks or once a month. For myself, I can sometimes weigh 118 first thing in the morning and 125 by the end of the day.

I also noticed that my clothes were a lot looser this past summer when I biked everywhere but my weight didn't budge at all.
It's not uncommon to see a weight gain if you're eating well and you're working out. Muscle mass weighs more than fat mass, and often takes up less space--which is why your weight can stay stock still, but your clothes feel looser and you feel much more limber.

It might be more encouraging to take measurements with a tape measure instead of using the scale as your primary measurement for weight loss, as it can be misleading to go by pounds alone. Have someone help you to take measurements of your head (measure at the point above your brows around to the occiput), your neck, your shoulders, your bust, your waist, your hips, around your thighs, your knees, your calves, your ankles, and around your upper arms and wrists, and record the measurements so you can compare them with measurements you will take 2 weeks in the future or a month in the future. You can get a better idea of what your changing shape is actually like when you look at measurements instead of pounds.
Measure your HEAD?

geez, that gives new meaning to the phrase "fathead" smile.gif

But actually, chacha, I believe both you and turbojenn have mentioned cranio-sacral therapy.

Fascinating stuff.
Believe me when I say that when you lose weight, you lose it everywhere. You might not think so, but you do. It's not uncommon for the size of your feet to shrink, for example. You definitely lose fat off your face, that's for sure!

Yes on the cranial sacral--such an amazing effect. It does so many people so much good--but, once again, they have to be prepared for what they'll encounter during their treatment (all the emotional stuff that's tied up and stored in their bodies. Cranial sacral therapy hits those issues directly, no "sugar coating" it, or pretending it isn't there).
Yep, I'm definitely losing weight *everywhere* - I can wear my most favoritest red leather Keen shoes again finally - but with 10lbs extra on me, they're way too snug to wear comfortably. And my red keens do indeed make me happy...they're so very warm in cold weather. Yipee!

And I ADORE cranial-sacral therapy -- best way to move forward emotionally that I know of. We're flying in our CS therapist in a couple weeks to work out of our home again for a few days...we all split her airfare, and it is more than worth it to have her do some intense work. That, and going from CS to the bath tub, and then directly to bed.....SO wonderful.

I get to use lower body weight machines!!!!!!

For the first time in nine months I've got the okay to start doing leg presses and such! I still have limitations on what machines and exercises I can do, and I still have to take it super slow and easy, but- I get to use lower body weight machines!

At first, at this very big sign of recovery, one of things I got excited about was the possibility of actually working out more and losing some of the weight I've put on during this injury. But today I was thinking about it/ checking myself out in the mirror and realized I actually dig having this cleavage, and I *really* dig my upper body muscles. So I think maybe I won't try to lose weight after all--which feels great! I mean, what a relief! Instead, I'm gonna be into building me some nice strong leg/butt muscles. But I'll leave this extra butt/belly/bosom just the way it is!

Good vibes to all the healthy busties.

ETA: Y'all might be seeing a lot more of me around here now!
Octi, your post made my whole month. Even though it's just the second, and my birthday's coming, which means the entire month turns into the festival of me. That's how happy it made me. smile.gif
good for you octi! I'm sure you'll remember to take it slow but it must feel great to be able to do those exercises again.
Congratulations on your recovery Octi!

QUOTE(_octinoxate @ Feb 2 2007, 06:31 PM) *

But today I was thinking about it/ checking myself out in the mirror and realized I actually dig having this cleavage, and I *really* dig my upper body muscles. So I think maybe I won't try to lose weight after all--which feels great! I mean, what a relief! Instead, I'm gonna be into building me some nice strong leg/butt muscles. But I'll leave this extra butt/belly/bosom just the way it is!

There's so much freedom in focussing on gaining strength and not losing weight isn't there! I just started to get to that point this fall as I started training again, and I tell you, I may be 15 - 20 pounds heavier than my lowest weight, but I have curves, and wicked muscles, and freedom not to watch everything I eat or obsess about my weight so much. Mind you, this works the majority of the time, and when it doesn't I just have to remind myself that my jeans aren't fitting because my quads have muscle wub.gif
Thanks for the good vibes, everyone!! And chacha, thanks for your encouragement through all of this.

Starshine, "freedom" is a good way to describe the feeling of thinking about strength and not weight/looks. I think for me, a big part of the reason why I was not real happy about gaining the weight before was because it felt like it was totally out of my control, and that loss of freedom to shape my body was what I was reacting against. But now that it feels like I have choices again, that feeling of constriction is gone.

Feeling inspired, I'm gonna go hit the gym right now! See ya later, healthy busties...
Wow, I am most impressed and delighted, _octinoxate.

psst -- I've looked around unsuccessfully for the "what's in a name?" thread -- but gotta ask about your name I think it's one of the coolest I've seen!

Is it a chemisty term or something?
Thanks wombat smile.gif On both items, the recovery and the name. The name is actually a funny thing: when I first encountered BUST about five years ago, I wanted to post something and realized I needed to create a user name first. Assuming that it would be a one-off post and I would never use the name again, I just grabbed the first object sitting around on my desk that had text on it: a bottle of sunblock. Whose first ingredient was "octinoxate". After one of the big wolf-attacks on bust where many user names were lost, I re-registered with the _ before the old name. So yes, a unique name perhaps, but one with absolutely no thought or meaning behind it smile.gif

Hm... I should add something OT: The gym was great. I didn't do any leg machines 'cause my hams were way tight and sore from phys therapy yesterday, but I biked and lifted upper body stuff. Oh, and last night I was showing off my muscles to the dude I was hanging out with and he was way impressed smile.gif

Do any of you other weight-liting chicks know any good back exercises, preferably with free weights? (eg, for rhomboids, and traps.) Our weight machine for that muscle group is built for huge guys and doesn't feel right to me.
Oh my goodness, Octi, I can just imagine the flocks of admirers you'll have around you, now that you are bodacious, brainy, and strong.

I hope you have an opportunity soon to wrap yourself in a fantastic gown to show it all off (Oscar parties don't really count, cause there is hardly any "going out" involved, just a lot of eating, TV, and snark. Okay, sure, that can be glamourous, but not in the ideal way).

I can imagine how freeing it is to not worry about one's weight.

Unfortunately, I do have to keep my weight in mind because I am truly overweight and I need to get in shape. I try not to make it my main focus or anything but it still comes to mind when I think about what I eat and what kind of exercises I should be doing.

Speaking of freeing, I've given up chocolate. It might sound a bit crazy but when it comes to chocolate I kind of felt like an alcoholic. Everytime chocolate is around I end up eating huge amounts, even to the point where I feel sick and as soon as I digested it a bit, I would go back for more. So the other night I just decided that enough is enough. I can't do it to myself anymore and interestingly enough, I've actually felt like it has been freeing not to have it occupying my mind.
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