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konphusion26 - thanks so much for your kind words. They touched my heart as well.

My dad and I don't have a very good relationship. He's miserable with my mom and I don't know how he stays with her. He's unsympathetic and cold to everything she, my sister or I have to say or share with him. He's loud and hurtful when he's angry. His views on the world are just stupid and old fashioned. I actually hate to be around him. That's why I stay away. I too worry that he and my mom will have a knock down drag out fight one of these days and one of them will go to far. I've tried to help and talked to both of them but they are so stubborn. I've given up. What happens happens. He's hit my mom in the past and she never leaves. I remember him putting a fist to my face when I was VERY young and telling me to grow up and start using my brain. He questions every adult decision I make and I'm constantly second guessing myself.

The scary thing is that as bad as he is my mom is a million times worse for me. Sometimes I really do think that she has psychotic issues.

I'm starting to see my sister going through the same things I went through. She has it worse because she has a very bad attitude that sets everything off. At least I only defended myself when I thought I was right. My sister fights because she's 19 and thinks she knows everything.

It's a mess. That's why I stay away. I can't help them. I want to be happy and I can't do that if I'm around them.

Good luck with your dad. Just pray that he doesn't hurt anyone. That's all you can do.

*hug and kiss*
so i've been receiving letters from my cousin regularly since she was incarcerated. she's doing well. they have her back on antidepressents. she got into a six to nine month program called Gateway. she has a court date in july that i was summoned to. i guess i'm some kind of witness for the state. i feel like i'm being called against her. it' kinda sucks. she keeps asking me to help her get financial aid so she can go to college online when she's settled into Gateway. i don't know if this is possible or how to help her with this. i was thinking of just stopping into the financial aid office at school and asking them if this is possible. other then that she seems very good. she thanks me all the time for what my dad and i did (having her arrested). i'm kind of putting off going to see her in prison. the last time i went to see her wasn't that bad. i had to call ahead of time to schedule a visit. it wasn't like this "threw the glass" thing that you see in the movies. we sat across from one another at a table. i was allowed to hug her. we talked and laughed. it was a nice visit. this time i just feel different because of how intense our last meeting was the day i had her arrested at the mall. i guess that is still kinda fresh on my mind. i think for now i'll just stick to writing. we write about once a week. for me that's enough right now. i guess i should go visit her right? i'm not being supportive just letting her sit in jail. especially, since i'm the one who put her there. i don't know what i'm going to do. stick to writing for right now i guess.
Pugs-I read your earlier posts about your cousin.

Just wanted to give you some support. I am glad your cousin is doing better since being incarcerated. You and your family did the right thing. Is the gateway program something that involves drug recovery?

I had a similar experience with my younger sister. She was put in jail for stealing checks from my mom & writing them. My mom had her arrested and pressed charges. It was the best thing that happened to my sister. She was in jail for about 2 months & was put in the drug court program. She was in that for two years. It involved many things-meetings, drug testing, curfew, etc. It was great for her. She has been clean now for 2+ years, something I never thought would happen. I hope something similar happens for your cousin.

I went to see my sister in jail a few times and I know she appreciated it. I don't think you have to go every week or anything, but I think visiting helps them out a lot. If you are writing, that's definitely good too.
**smooches to LMP** - hey sweetheart! I think its awesome you are corresponding with her; thats some great support right there. Not everyone has that. You have to forgive yourself for having her arrested. You did what you had to do to save your cousin's life. Everything will be just fine

I agree with Kari "I don't think you have to go every week or anything, but I think visiting helps them out a lot. If you are writing, that's definitely good too."

P.S. - Just wanted to let you know that You rock!
Aww thanks ladies. The last time she was locked up she was in jail for a long time then went into a program called Crest. At first I think she was considered incarcerated and then was able to work and come back there at night. She went to meetings, therapy, they medicated her, helped her find a job, and she had a curfew and so on and so forth. She did well with that. Then she was released and got an apartment. She was working, going to meetings, drug tests, and parole meetings. Then she relapsed and now I think she’s going to do this all over again. I think this program is just longer. I don’t know all the details.

Her letters are strange sometimes. She is almost overly happy to be back in jail and now all this talk about going to school online while in the Gateway program. I really don’t think she’s fully accepted that this drug has full control over her. She tries to be this tough person and thinks that she can handle anything and everything. She also very hard on herself for doing wrong while she’s under the influence.

All her letters just say thank you and thank god. When I ask about her work in progress she never responds. I can’t explain any more other then to say that her letters are strange. Also, after her behavior at the mall that day I just feel differently about her. She was so out of her mind that when I think of her that is all I see in my head and feel in my heart. I don’t think her and I will ever be what we were before this all happened.

Her family (except her father) has written her off. I’m not going to do that and that’s why I’m continuing to write and I’m planning on visiting when I have free time.
QUOTE(konphusion26 @ Dec 7 2007, 01:43 PM) *
Hey I didnt know this thread existed. But yeah.. my dad is an alcoholic. Its not been an easy road. I've heard that addicts can only recover if they really want to. I guess he doesn't want to because every attempt to get him help, he refuses. Oh well, what can ya do??

konphusion26, have you found a way to deal with this? My dad is an alcoholic (actively planning to die within 2 years). He doesn't think he has a problem ('natch). The reason I ask is that I thought I would try Al-Anon, but since it is heavily reliant on a spiritual belief system I'm finding it extremely off-putting. I've been looking for other options, but haven't found any.
QUOTE(tatiana @ Mar 3 2008, 10:44 PM) *
konphusion26, have you found a way to deal with this? My dad is an alcoholic (actively planning to die within 2 years). He doesn't think he has a problem ('natch). The reason I ask is that I thought I would try Al-Anon, but since it is heavily reliant on a spiritual belief system I'm finding it extremely off-putting. I've been looking for other options, but haven't found any.

Hi Tatiana. No I haven't tried al-anon as of yet; i've heard its spiritually based. I am a spiritual person. I am a Christian, and that helps me alot in dealing with my own issues about my father. It's hard to talk to him still because he's usually drunk. I refuse to talk to him when he's drinking. Point blank. If that's considered not dealing with it, then I dont know what else to do. I'm sorry to hear about your dad sweetie. My fear is that my father will be gone in a few years from his body shutting down or getting in an accident. It makes me sad but I can't keep living my life worried about if he's gonna croak. He's not in control of himself anymore, his addiction is - and its impossible talking to him even when he's sober. Im not sure what your belief system is, but I do wish you the best in finding a way to cope. You can PM me if you'd like to talk further about how you're feeling. Maybe we can help each other.

Sounds like my Dad exactly and I deal with it the same way. Unfortunately since I grew up with his alcoholism, I'm still the typical "child of an alcoholic." I'm an atheist so Al-Anon doesn't seem to be the right fit for me, but I need to do something--I'm just not sure what.
sorry if i disrupt any ongoing convo in this thread.
my piece.
i love not having vices or addictions anymore.
however. i feel as though i've lost any confidence in myself and now all i am is a self conscious neurotic ball of nothingness. sucks i feel it's so hard to extract any sort of belief in myself over even the most fundamental things, like facing the world some days. but then i wonder if that's at all different than how i used to be... and now i'm just the person i used to crave to be: a person who is free of addictions and vices. the irony is sick.
i've never wanted to be someone who locked herself away in her house, and i dont for the most part, but i just find it's so much easier and safer to do the bare minimum. eghad. i hate myself for even thinking that way..
Wow, so my drunko father called me yesterday out of the blue. He nabbed my mom's cell phone while she was at granny's house and looked me up (cuz i wont give him my number). Of course he was drunk. I could tell by the way he was talking. He does this annoying baby talk shyt when he's drunk that drives me nuts. Needless to say the convo was very awkward and very short. I really have nothing to say to him outside of the basic small talk when he's like that. Part of me wanted to hang up when I found out it was him, but I'm working on being nice or whatever. I really wish he would stop drinking. His poor body would probably shut down if he did. I love my dad, but for my sanity's sake, I dont want anything to do with him most of the time.
konphusion26 - that sucks. i mean would it really be so wrong to just end the conversation? my mother would think so but me personally, I would have just said, "Hey I gotta go." I mean why must you be subjected to talking to him when he's like that. Is that so selfish to only want to talk to your father when he's sober?

I found out over the weekend that my cousin was released from prison for two days before taking herself to her new rehab. I don't get it? She's incarcerated. She broke the law. She's a criminal and they just let her go. I mean who's to say she doesn't just hop on a bus and skip town. I'm supposed to go testify against her, for the state in July for the shit that happened the day I had her arrested. Then, they let her out of prison, with nowhere to go. She calls her enabling friends and they put her up for the two nights. Does she call me? NO WAY!! Why not? I'm the one who helped her last time. They probably took her out to a bar to party before going back in. Why is it when she's feeling better and getting help she goes to the enabling friends. BUT!! When shit hits the fan and she's at her lowest she calls me and my family. WTF? I just don't get it. They aren't writing her in prison. They aren't crying nights when she's missing on the streets. WTF!!!
So...not sure if any of you remember but I had my cousin arrested in January after she disappeared for weeks on a heroin binge. Yesterday was her trial. I was subpoenaed to testify against her for the state. I think basically they wanted me there because they weren't sure if she was going to admit to stealing the car or not and she had admitted to me that yes she stole it. If she tried to say she didn't I’d be there to say she admitted that she did. My family was very up in the air about this. My father didn't want me to say that she admitted it to me. He thought that if I told the truth she'd get jail time. I truly believe she needs jail time. My mother didn't want to get involved with the argument between my father and me. I still haven't talked to my aunt, my cousin's mom, since that day at the mall when I had her arrested. I’m still angry that all she talked about was herself instead of asking me if 1) my cousin was okay, 2) my dad was okay, 3) if I was okay. She has always seemed so selfish to me. However, after everything that went down yesterday with the trial I can honestly say that I understand how she got that way.

After we had her arrested she was taken to the women's prison. We wrote back and forth for months. She was feeling better and thanked me over and over for what I did. She said I saved her life. Then I got a summons in the mail to testify against her for the state. I told her this in a letter. Suddenly all communication stopped. Two of my letters were returned unopened. I heard she had been taken to a rehab. I also heard she was hospitalized for a few days because she had some kind of reaction to the meds she was on. She was released for a few days before checking into rehab and she stayed with her alcoholic friends. She didn't contact me at all. This was all in march. So I haven't heard a peep from her. This has irritated and upset me.

Finally, yesterday I arrived at the court with my mom, dad and Mr. Pugs. We got there around 7:45 a.m. as directed on the summons. My cousin arrived at around 9 a.m. She’s put on some weight which is good. She was very thin last I saw her in January. Her nails have grown out again. She bites them down to nothing when she's using. She was very depressed and numb looking. That’s the only way I can describe it. She didn't smile once. She barely hugged my mom and dad. She held me for a few extra moments. I don't think she likes my parents much. Hell, neither do I. I asked her how she was doing. She wouldn't only respond with okay, or fine. I got the feeling she didn't want to talk about rehab or anything so I didn't push. She informed me that she is getting out on Monday. Fucking wonderful, fantastic news. She’s not ready. You can see it written all over her face. She’s going back to the friend’s house who is also a recoving addict. In my opinion this doesn't sound like a good decision but she has no other choice. Her mother, father, brother and other family members won't take her. I can honestly say that I wouldn't take her either. I don't trust her.

She pled guilty so I didn't have to testify. The lady whose car she stole was there. She kept telling me that she wasn't going to press charges or ask for retribution. She just wanted her to pay back the money that she had to spend to get the car fixed that she crashed while in her possession. The people who owned the restaurant she worked at that she stole all the money from a register were there. They weren't very nice people. They kept staring at my family with nasty looks of disapproval. The lady whose car got stolen kept saying what a good kid my cousin is. Well excuse me, but she's not a good kid. She’s a junkie. She steals, hurts people and never apologizes. She’s been given so many chances in life and opportunities to move forward and she just keeps focusing on the past. In my opinion it's time for her to grow up.

So finally, at 10 a.m. the judge shows up. She pleads guilty. Then there is a break because he has to go take care of some other case. All in all we didn't leave until 1:30 p.m. I never had to talk. No one talked to me. She barely spoke to me. She was supposed to pay back all the money in 90 days. Since she's just getting out of rehab she has no job so they let her pay the money back during the length of her probation which is 18 months. So instead of 3 months she gets 18 months. That just doesn't seem fair to the victims. I’m sure they could use their money back. She’s not doing any jail time. There was no mention of the woman she mugged in Philly. I doubt they even know about that. So she's scott free. She’s on level 2 probation whatever that means and paying back moneys and that's about it. She’s to continue her therapy and I think she's on meds.

She got off very easy. I’m very pissed. I feel like everything I did was for nothing. She’s going to relapse again. I can see it in her eyes. I won't help this time. I just won't. I probably will but I’m saying I won't because it makes me feel better. I’m just angry and sad for her. I have an address and phone number of the place she is staying. I’m going to try to write her. It probably won’t be for a few weeks because I want to cool down.

Part of me wants to call her mom and apologize for all the things I said to her that night. I blamed her. I do think that much of this is her fault but I also think it's time for my cousin to step up and be and adult. Stop blaming mommy and daddy for everything.

I’m really angry, sad and frustrated. I don't think this is coming across well. It seems cold, jumbled and hard to follow. I’m going to go now. Thanks for listening.

she's lucky to have you
OMG LMP!! That seems so - oh gosh I don't even know the word I'm trying to say- but that is insane! I really was pulling for her to get better. Hopefully she still will. I can't even imagine what you are feeling right now. Big hugs sweetie. You've done all you can do for her. Just keep your head up and keep praying that she will do the right thing.
LMP, I know how hard it is to watch the system fail your loved ones and watch them fail themselves, my nieces mom (brothers ex-wife) has been in and out of rehab programs for alcohol and always gets a slap on the wrist. I honestly think it's because she's a really beautiful girl who knows how to act to get away with things. Last year she stabbed her boyfriend through the heart during sex games while they were both drunk and high. She got probation. She's had numerous run ins with the police, including a car crash that totalled my car and left her with a broken pelvis. Witnesses say they saw the police check a mug she had with her that was full of wine at 8AM but they didn't charge her with anything. It was disgusting.

I've severed any ties with her. We were never very close to begin with, but when my brother kicked her out of his house and took primary care of his daughter I pretty much haven't talked to her since because it's too hard to watch someone's life spin out of control like that.
Christine Nectarine
QUOTE(tatiana @ Mar 4 2008, 10:22 PM) *
I'm an atheist so Al-Anon doesn't seem to be the right fit for me, but I need to do something--I'm just not sure what.

Tatiana: This is a little out of date, but i see that you are in Canada, so thought this may be helpful (depending on where in Canada you are)
the Centre for Addictions and Mental Health offers supports for families of those with addictions. they are not religious or spiritually based as far as i am aware. if they do not serve your area, they could likely provide you with some alternate resources. hope this helps!
Queen Bull
I have recently come to terms with the fact that i have a propensity not only for addiction but specifically for alcoholism. Not to say that i have reached a point in my life and in my disease that i have ruined relationships and cant hold a job. just the knowledge that i cannot, physically and mentally have one drink. As soon as i take that first taste of liquor it becomes a compulsion, that in all honesty, scares the ever loving hell out of me. and even still, i have been dry for a couple of months now, but it is a constant battle almost, and the only reason, immature though it may be, that i have not is because if i begin to drink i will cheat on my boyfriend. obviously, that being something i do not want to do. i suppose i was just looking for any advice on if that constant nagging will ever go away, or if i will ever be able to go out and have a martini with the girls. I have read about alcoholism and am familiar with the subject, but i suppose that since it is now applying to me i was hoping that there was someone who went through what i am and had been 'fixed'. because truthfully, i feel broken. I mean, i havent even hit twenty-one yet and i have had to quit drinking because of the problems it was creating in my life. A part of me realizes that it isnt the end of the world not to be able to drink and that i dont need it to be happy, but part of me just wants to be that normal person that can go to a bar and celebrate on her twenty first birthday. i dunno. *sigh*

Queen Bull

oh and thanks to AP for bumping me over from general health! smile.gif xo
Hi Queen Bull. I'm afraid I don't have any personal experience to help you out with, but I can let you know that a number of people in my family have successfully battled their alcohol addictions. One no longer drinks, one has maybe two glasses of wine a year, and one drinks probably a beer a week. I'm not so sure about his level of recovery, but he definitely isn't out of control anymore. They are very wonderful, fun, complete people, even though they went though some very difficult times during their addictions. The most important thing that ever got them through was the support of their friends and family.

I also have a friend who ha da very close family member who was an alcoholic. He never mentions it, but he has never touched a drink as long as I've know him, and he never felt he missed out on any fun or frolicking at the bar. He's perfectly comfortable ordering a coke instead of a drink, and we've never bugged him about it or made him feel singled out because of it. Hopefully you have friends who would give you the same consideration.
Queen Bull
thanks for your support angie. and im very glad you dont have any first hand experience. smile.gif im working through it. my friends are great about supporting me. its more of an internal battle with me i think. aaah well.. face forward yah know?!

I am so happy to hear that you have supportive friends to help you out. It makes such a huge difference. best of luck, and I hope things work out.
Queen Bull -- reading your post it was as if I was reading my own thoughts. I have the exact same problem. Once I have one drink I just keep going, and I just CANNOT stop. I drank yesterday, which caused problems for me, and I have to draw the line. I have to stop drinking. I'm going to go for counselling at school. I think the drinking is linked to my depression, also I have a family history of alcoholism, so I'm going to go and talk to someone about my issues. I'm hoping this will help because this is not the first time I've said I would stop drinking, and clearly I failed all those other times.

I have supportive friends too, so I'm hoping that will work out alright.

((QB)) if you want to pm me we can talk about this anytime. Seems like we're going through the same thing.
Hello all. I was kindly referred here when I asked about AlAnon in the Committed thread.

So, anyone have any experience with AlAnon? I am just now crawling out of a relationship with a man who clearly has a drinking problem, and he is not my first addict. Why do I love these men? It is killing me to love the sober, wonderful him, and lose that to the drunk, belligerent asshole who takes over.
Samiam, I haven't but my brothers ex-wife is an alcoholic and he has used al-anon a number of times over the years. I know other folks who have used who said they just go and listen and appreciate that other people out there know how they feel. From what I understand it's very informal and you don't have to say anything.
(((samiam))) Good for you for taking the first step in looking at your own pattern in relationships. I'm sorry you are going through this right now. sad.gif 2 books you might want to look into are: Co Dependent No More and Leaving the Enchanted Forest. I found both books to be extremely helpful in identifying my own patterns.

Feel free to just write and vent as needed.
Co Dependent No More is an awesome book!

I feel like I need to vent about some stuff.

Last summer I went to detox for the second time in my life. The first time was in 2004 for pills, but this time it was for pills as well as alcohol. It was shitty, I had no support and the detox centers are scary places! From detox I felt that I had no choice but to go to 12 step meetings. I went, worked the program and even had a sponsor. I stopped going to meetings after 120 days clean when I really wanted a beer. It was different feeling than I had last summer when I need to drink and take pills to stop myself from feeling. This was like, I want a beer to relax, not hurt myself. I did the whole pro/con list, I called people both in and out of the program to get feedback, but made the decision myself and it was a huge deal in many ways. For me it helped me sort out my black or white thinking which was a huge role in my addiction. It was like "I am feeling bad, so I must use something to help me feel good...NOW!!" and this wasn't black or white, it was what I wanted to do. I told my sponsor who was angry which was understandable because she owes her life to 12 steps, but it scared me because I really thought I belonged in meetings, but was starting to feel isolated and lonely when I started getting better and had no desire (beyond the pink cloud) to use or drink. I was like I want to recover, but I'm not sure if I want to go to meetings where I didn't relate to much.

I think recovery is super personal to each person and how they decide to get better. I think the 12 steps rock and use them in almost everything I do and understand that I could totally go back to where I was and take it one day at time with everything. I feel centered and more spiritual because of it and my desire to stop wasting my life and hurting myself with pills, booze and bad decisions. I totally see myself as being in recovery and totally will identify as an addict, but how I recover is my choice. I am very happy with how I see the world now. I have had three beers since my "relapse" in November. It is a relapse according to the meetings I was going to, but not to me. To me it was an understanding that my old behaviors and relationships with drugs and alcohol was a way to hurt myself and keep myself from growing.

One thing that sucks about getting better is my relationships with people. I was forever the wounded, abused, sick girl who got high, took pills and was fucked up. Once I started getting better and stopped needing people to take care of me I was abandoned in a way by those who kinda needed me to be to be sick. It is like pulling teeth to get my ex girlfriend to call me back or hang out with me (we were friends before)

My decision to leave meetings is something I don't regret at this time, but know that I could always go back.

Anyways, thanks for letting me vent.
Thanks. I ordered Codependent No More from the library, so hopefully it will be here soon. I ordered a couple of other books, too.

Right now I am just so angry at his addiction. I want him back, just without the blackout drinking and the lazy selfishness that it creates. When he is not drinking and instead spends his time creating and playing music, he is an amazing, loving, compassionate guy. But when he is drinking, he is a selfish asshole. Even the other night, the first communication I have gotten from him that wasn't angry demanded that i hate him because it would be easier for him to break up with me like he has. The next day I got apologies for the drunken texts. I wish he would be kind when he was sober. I wish he was sober.
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