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i'm glad she's speaking out on that, but role model for fat girls kate is NOT. she's skinnier than ricci used to be, and ricci was skinny even when she was healthy.
anna k
Why is it that Kate is always asked weight questions? She's hardly fat, and has a curvy/slim figure that is probably an 8. It's like a neverending question that she must be sick of, no matter how much slimmer she gets.

I just wrote a letter to Cosmopolitian ridiculing them for placing a breast-enhancement ad two pages after celebrating actresses for having small breasts. I don't care about the ad, but the placement of it was ridiculous and stupid.
i've seen her in person, and she's definitely not an 8. she's MAYBE a 6. she is far from the amazonian woman people make her out to be--they say the camera puts on ten pounds, i think this must be true.

the terrifying thing about that is that it means it's putting ten pounds onto bosworth and richie and ricci too. ugh.
i hate how much the media focuses on women's weight.

i was reading this awesome article about beth ditto in the sunday times style magazine last week and i was SO SAD because in the first paragraph they mentioned her weight. straight away they were like BETH IS 15 STONE.

and i was thinking, we can see she's chubby from the fucking HOT pictures you've printed, why can't you write about her and not her weight??
There's a great quote from Lily Allen in the new Bust about how she got pissed at some magazine in the UK because they put some pretty band (Muse, I think) on the hot new things cover rather than the planned photo of her and Beth Ditto, just because they didn't think the latter would sell as well. Which is ridiculous. Beth Ditto is awesome, who cares about her size or sexuality?

I wish Lily had been the cover instead of Gwen. She's not as high profile, but she's at least as famous as Jena Malone (on these shores, I mean; I know she's a big star in the U.K.). I guess when she was on the cover, though, Bust wasn't really in the same league as it is now.
the full lily allen rant

imho, she's a hell of a better representation of current feminists in music than gwen.....i didn't even buy the new bust, i'm not sure if i want. to. gwen really bothers me in this new incarnation (though i will still squeal and get down on the dancefloor whenever "hollaback girl" comes on..)
i have a secret girly crush on lily allen. I saw her play in november, she was brilliant. And yes, she swears and speaks her mind, and has a "common" se london accent, but she's fucking intelligent and sassy.

NME - the magazine - is rather known for being dreadfully sexist. thier "top 100" artists a few years back had something like less than ten women in it... etc etc etc. The female writers have left to go on to better and bigger things.
What's annoying is that it was a pretty decent issue - the best one in awhile, I think - other than. . . Gwen.
anna k
NME - the magazine - is rather known for being dreadfully sexist. thier "top 100" artists a few years back had something like less than ten women in it... etc etc etc. The female writers have left to go on to better and bigger things.

Same as when I get annoyed at metal shows and magazines doing top 20/50/100 lists of something and rarely mentioning women.

I like Lily Allen a lot. I thought she was getting overhyped, but I like her voice and attitude and how mature and grown she is, compared to a bunch of 21-year olds who still act like they're in high school.
Sorry to butt in with this...

Has there been any word about how Anna Nicole Smith died? I'm just curious, and haven't seen mention of it yet.
no mention, although the theories are flying like the news people have nothing better to do. and who is the person who throws out the mama cass died-choking-on-a-ham-sandwich theory, but (ugh) nancy grace-less. really. i thought bill o'reilly was bad, but she seems to delight in coming up with the rudest comments for everyone. you'd think being responsible for a woman's suicide would have taught her something.

and incase you are too you young to know about mama cass, (i am, i'm just musically obsessed), she was in 'the mamas and the papas' (they sang 'california dreaming'). anyways, mama cass was known for her voice-- she was the only member of the band to have a great solo career-- but she was also harassed by the press because of her weight. when she died of a heart attack, the press went nuts, and eventually published a stories falsely claiming she died choking on a ham sandwich. just to show how lame the press is-- mama cass was jewish. the same story circulated (briefly) when john belushi died as well.
QUOTE(snafooey @ Feb 13 2007, 07:24 PM) *

I wish Lily had been the cover instead of Gwen. She's not as high profile, but she's at least as famous as Jena Malone (on these shores, I mean; I know she's a big star in the U.K.). I guess when she was on the cover, though, Bust wasn't really in the same league as it is now.


My thought exactly.
I didn't realize it was NME; that makes sense (I was going to guess that but I couldn't remember so I didn't want to attribute sexism unfairly). I read it at the hair salon (my subscription lapsed and I keep forgetting to renew) and thought it was pretty good. I loved the Kim Gordon/Thurston Moore interview. As for Gwen, I think her music's catchy, but it always bugs me when the BUST cover girl says she's not feminist (well, Gwen's answer boiled down to "I'm into girl power but I don't want to alienate anyone, so I'm not going to say yes!"). I always feel like someone needs to direct said cover girl to Sarah Bunting's awesome yes you are rant.
This was the first BUST in a while that I haven't bought as soon as I saw it. My first thought was that someone lame had bought the magazine a la Sassy, and decided the perfect covergirl for a feminist rag would be some mainstream pop tart who 'designs' clothes and 'borrows' other cultural icons to further her debatable talent parade.

I don't like Gwen, I think she's an opportunistic intellectual lightweight from a shite band who happened to get lucky because she ran around half naked onstage. The interview has done nothing to dispell that for me.

It doesn't help that she disses Margaret Cho, who has more talent in her eyelash than Gwen has in her whole body.
QUOTE(sidecar @ Feb 13 2007, 07:23 PM) *

As for Gwen, I think her music's catchy, but it always bugs me when the BUST cover girl says she's not feminist (well, Gwen's answer boiled down to "I'm into girl power but I don't want to alienate anyone, so I'm not going to say yes!").

that's such bullshit. if she wasn't intrested in alienating anyone, then why does she continue apropreating other's culture? first it was latinas/cholas and now it's asian culture. loving those cultures is cool, but when you strip them of their meaning to make a buck off it.... sorry, someone is going to be alienated. most likely the ones you claim to admire.

that said, if you are into 'girl power' why should you be afraid to say so? isn't it what inspired you as a girl? don't you want others to have that? sorry, but that is super weak. i never cared for no doubt because of her vocals, but she won me over with her remake of that talk talk song (talk talk rocks). and i find her solo stuff very catchy, but a comment like that makes me dispise her. as opposed to the dixie chicks-- or even pink or xtina who atleast stand up for what they beleve.

that's just weak.
I haven't picked up the issue yet but as soon as I saw that there's an article on Lily Allen I decided that I'll get it soon. I used to adore Gwen back in the No Doubt days but her music now is just crazy and annoying. I don't mind the singles that I heard from her first album but the new stuff just sounds too weird for me. And not only that but I hate how she has to mention LAMB in almost every single song! Okay, you make clothes, we get it!
What? BUST picked a covergirl who states that she isn't feminist? And they've done it before?

Why fucking bother, then, to publish BUST at all, since so many other magazines which aren't feminist can publish the same shit, for a lot less money to the magazine purchaser, and with a lot more practice?

Goddamn it, but that's stupid. How does a magazine like BUST get conned into airing even more misogyny than the tons of media crap that's already out there doing just that? What makes their editor believe people want to read that shit when they're going out of their way to buy what they were told was an alternative to the mainstream garbage that's loaded with all that nonsense?

Why not just sell some ad space to some pro-life republicans next? After all, they claim they don't get enough media attention too.

word, chacha.

i get really sick of women who benefit and profit from feminism denying it-grrr!!!! and girl power? come on gwen-you're like, 38!!!!! time to grow up.

i admit, i liked her for a long time. mostly because of the i'm just a girl song. but man i can't stand her now!
...'cause BUST really isn't all that alternative?
Word, Lucizoe. For a long time now Bust has been a fairly mainstream magazine. It's not fluffyfluffy, but it isn't Ms. either.

Plenty of Bust covergirls have chosen not to identify with feminism over the years. I recall being madder than hell at PJHarvey after she did the same thing.

I expected as much from Gwen, though. I've always thought she sucked & so did No Doubt. Her clothes are ugly & I think it's twisted to keep the little Harajuku girls as a human pet entourage.
Gwen's actual quote was something along the lines of "No one's been able to define [feminism] for me, so I'm [not going to say I'm a feminist]."

Because 36 years in the public lexicon apparentally isn't enough for our little Gwennie's head. Quelle idiota.
I guess BUST is no feminist either...but they'd like to play at it cause it justifies the rack space.

I hope it burns PJHarvey AND Gwen and their ilk when women who are feminists and proud of it appropriate their music (hopefully via free download, from now on) as clearly feminist anthems. Don't want to alienate anyone while you're cashing in thanks to feminism? How about we feminists do it for you?

I'm just going to go make some coffee and get back to work now. This kind of thing obviously infuriates me, and I don't wanna dwell on it.
ugh. well there goes pj harvey for me. dry is such a good album to skateboard to, too. *sigh* oh well. i guess i don't understand why it's so hard to stand up for what you believe. i really don't. how hard is it to say? why would you not say hey, this is what i think? what do they think would happen? does anyone have any spine anymore? or are you so desperate to keep your umpteen room villa that you'd sell your soul?

i'm disgusted.
loll loll lol! re: gwen's actual quote-hee hee!!! no one has ever been able to define it for her-who the heck has she been talking to about it? Fergie? Britney? I mean geez, look in the dictionary or something! that's a pretty pathetic answer. hee.
I appreciate the fact that it seems to be Bust policy to ask that question, to make it part of popular discourse . . .but then every interviewer just drops the ball, I guess b/c it's not exactly Charlie Rose and you don't want the discussion to get too "heavy."

I have a lot of issues with Bust (see my comments in the Bust: Discuss thread), but I still can't put them on the same level as any mainstream women's magazine. Even with Gwen on the cover. But yeah, it's a slippery, slippery slope.

ETA: I felt embarrassed for Gwen the way she feels "embarrassed" for Margaret Cho reading that interview. I know fourteen-year-olds who are three times as articulate. There's been a lot of ageist and sexist criticism of Gwen ("She's too old to be acting/dressing like that!"), but woman, you are 38-years-old. Why do you want to look and sound like a cheerleader? Be sexy, be "kooky" - nobody's telling you to put on a pantsuit and release an album of standards - but acting like a teenager at this point is kind of creepy.

Re: PJ Harvey, I think part of her shtick is "I am rock 'n roll - I don't think it terms of politics or labels" but it's horseshit. Everything about her is feminist - why so afraid of being pigeonholed? Apparently her management was very anal about her even doing the whole interview, if I remember correctly. I guess they were worried that because she's a strong woman, she'd be pegged as an "angry feminist" rather than a passionate, visceral performer.
With that quote I can kinda see where she may be coming from ... there are so many definitions of feminism and it's an umbrella term for so many different schools of thought that maybe she doesn't want to align herself with them all? If she was asked "do you think feminism is this, are you a feminist?" then she may have had a more concrete answer, or perhaps not.
but it isn't that hard to define it in an interview, is it? you could say something like, "if you mean women __________________? then, yeah i'm a feminist. i suppose you have a point, but you could also just say what you do believe instead of just taking yourself out of the question. and why not get deep? isn't the reason you buy the mag with her in it is because you want to know why she does what she does? maybe it's me but that's why i read an interview with a painter i admire. *shrug* i want to know who they are and what they think.
Maybe, but I think that's giving her way too much credit. Seriously, she sounded less than half her age at many points during that interview. I'm not sure if she's just playing dumb as part of her image or what, but it really came across as a copout answer.
aaaaawww, man! why did you have to go an' put it like that?! now i'm gonna have to haul off and read the damn thing!!!

*shakes her fist in the air*

gosh-darn you, snafooey!!!!!!
See, the thing is, every cheap newsprint tabloid and every half-witted fashion magazine and every woman hating FHM type rag is out there hoping to find passels of women just like these two who would bend over backwards to say things like, "I don't want to alienate anybody, so I won't say I'm a feminist (cause, you know, alienating feminists is OK)...." And these people have all kinds of means to promote themselves everywhere they can. Why should they now target a market of feminists by bashing feminism, in a feminist magazine, too?

So there is NO SHORTAGE of rag out there which will push the message that women should be quiet and pretty and sexy and young and managed like tokens, already. Why does BUST have to get in that club, too?

There are so many incredible, talented, unusual, influential, brilliant, women out there in every genre of art and every aspect of life. Why, why, why, waste ink and paper on the boring, overexposed nimwits like PJHarvey, and Gwen? Don't even give them acknowledgement by trying to expose them as hypocritical--just put your efforts behind promoting women who aren't afraid to act on their beliefs, who need exposure and visibility far more than the already overexposed idiots like Stefani and Harvey. Otherwise, just advertise cigarettes and pharma drugs and diet programs, and write gossipy articles with punny titles like every other "women's" magazine does. That way none of us have to waste our time and money on BUST.

It's like Ebony Magazine putting a Ku Klux Klansman on their cover, and giving the hooded bastard the feature interview of the issue.
Okay, sorry to be a buttinski since this topic is fascinating (and complex)

but I have to BUTT IN to wish a belated


Born 2-13-1962

All send loves to Hankie-poo.
I haven't yet gotten the latest issue of Bust, and after reading all this, I don't think I will! It sucks that yet another of their cover subjects denies/skirts around being labeled a feminist. I remember very well when PJ Harvey did the same thing when she was on the cover, and that pissed me off, too. And didn't Bjork do that as well? And I clearly remember Drew Barrymore being quoted in one issue (she wasn't the cover subject, though) as saying she's not a feminist. WTF?? Is Bust no longer a feminist magazine? If it still is, they really out to be more selective in whom they're going to feature on their cover.

Out of curiosity, though, for those of you who did read the Gwen Stefani interview, what exactly did she say about Margaret Cho?
Yeah, see the way I read the quote (and the quotes around it) led me to believe that she was trying to have it both ways. For so many women, feminism is still a dirty word, like saying you're a feminist is akin to saying you're angry and you hate men. But at the same time, she didn't want to repudiate it, lest someone think she's saying she's not for equality or for women to be able to do whatever they want.

No one's definition of feminism is the same (mine is probably much more broad than others in this forum) but I think it's a total copout of an answer. If you want to say no because no one's defined it for you, go ahead and define it. Or just say no and live with the consequences. Of course, it's always possible I'm reading to much into this and she's just not bright enough to have an opinion on it.

I've often agreed with Margaret Cho's take on the Harajuku Girls (and I'm not a Cho fan). Gwen's whole line about "she should've done her research!" was kind of embarrassing. Yeah, maybe the culture over there is really interesting and Gwen can think she's trying to expose others to it, but I find it hard to watch the fetishization of a culture, of this white, platinum blonde girl prancing around with underdressed, subserviant Asian girls dancing behind her.

As for the current issue, I hate to think that this conversation is turning people off, because the Lily Allen interview is great, and the Thurston Moore/Kim Gordon interview is one of the best they've ever run.
I agree - other than Gwen on the cover, it was one of the best issues they've put out in awhile. GT, it's worth picking up for the reasons Sidecar noted (and there were a couple of other articles I really enjoyed that escape my mind now but only b/c I'm really tired and not b/c they were forgettable); Gwen's interview was just boring when it wasn't cringeworthy.

I'm not putting Gwen and PJ Harvey on the same level, though, even if the latter also said she wasn't a feminist. Maybe b/c I think she lives a feminist life even if she won't acknowledge it whereas Gwen. . .?

Networks criticized for lack of Anna Nicole Smith Coverage wink.gif
I think that Bust at it's heart is an alternative rag. Their meatier, non-celebrity-based articles are really good, and are infinitely more intelligent than anything you would read in a mainstream women's magazine. They review alternative books and alternative movies. They have several excellent feminist columns. I think they really fail as feminist mag when they try to dabble in mainstream pop culture. I don't think Gwen Stefani needed to be promoted in Bust. I can't think of any reason she's on the cover except to sell magazines.

I wonder if there's a bright side to this. I like to imagine that some mainstream-drenched teeny bopper picked up this issue because Gwen was on the cover, only to discover Lily Allen, or to read Wendy McClure.

Still though. There are many articulate mainstream muscians and actresses they could have chosen from. Why they went with Gwen is a complete mystery to me.
Hahaha!! I love that article, snaf!!

I was surprised that they chose Gwen, too. I don't like her music so I didn't read the article. I have a weakness for Hella Good though.

I see the "feminist identity crisis" as akin to people calling themselves political "moderates" but always voting for republicans (or vice versa). There's the fear of being stereotyped and maybe there are some aspects of the party that don't quite fit your political beliefs. Still, if you're voting for republican candidates everytime, then you might as well just call yourself a republican. Anyway, that's my analogy for the feminist label issue. I can sorta understand. I don't really think "feminist" when I think of my identity, but I am "in theory." By association, I'm a feminist. I don't think of myself as a "democrat" either, even though I vote for democratic candidates everytime! smile.gif

Mainly, it's the stigma surrounding the word "feminism" that makes women reluctant to identify themselves as participants, even if they agree with every principle. They're closet-feminists and they don't know it.

ETA- Did anyone watch the Grammys on Sunday night. Smokey Robinson was great, although I couldn't see the "tracks of his tears" because his face was so damn tight. He looked possessed. Sigh...another perfectly fine face lost to the knife.
I'm with ratgrl...what exactly did she say about Margaret Cho? I guess I better go buy the damned thing. I never especially loved Gwen, but now I'm starting to actively dislike her.
(from the Gwen BUST interview)
"How do you handle the critics?
The thing is, I never do anything for anyone but myself. It's very selfish. I don't do anything unless I'm completely passionate about it, so what can you do? You put stuff out there, and they're always gonna find something negative. There's no way around it. And, sometimes when they get it so wrong, I'm like, "That's so wrong. That was so not the way I intended for you to see it."

What about the stuff that Margaret Cho wrote on her blog about the Harajuku Girls being a racist stereotype? How do you not let that hurt you?
It didn't hurt me. It embarassed me for her, because she did not do the research. She's totally wrong. Basically, if you look at the lyrics of "Harajuku Girls," all it is is me glorifying a culture and saying how great and how stylish and how much a fan I am of these girls and how inspired I am. And if you go to my website,, you can see interviews with all the girls talking about where they came from, who they are. The whole thing was my fantasy come true. It's an art project. She embarassed herself. She needs to go back and do the research before she talks shit."

I really just...hate Gwen right now. I actually am a big No Doubt fan, especially their earlier stuff, and so when her first solo album came out, I went right out and bought it. And promptly resold it on after the first half-listen. What a piece of shit. I can't forgive her for what she did to The Sound of Music with this new song of hers. God I want to strangle her.

I was taken aback when I read the PJ article because she's my fave solo artist, and all my hardcore feminist friends just adore her. But I don't know, looking back (and having gone through my first 1 1/2 years of a women's history grad program since then), I can kind of see where she's coming from. She said she rejected feminism because her music wasn't made to inspire solely women, she wanted to inspire song-writers and music-makers in general, many of whom are men as well. And a lot of my professors and peers reject feminism because when you look at its whole history, they don't think it's radical enough ,or inclusive enough, or whatever (though that is a totally different conversation).

So I don't know. I was bummed about the PJ article when it first came out, but now I'm not sure where I stand on it. I still support her as an artist, though; that's a bullet I'm willing to bite.
Yeah, feminism is so confusing to people nowadays. That's why it has it's own topic in the BUST lounge!! I am a feminist by theory, but I do think that the "femme" part is misleading. I have a hard time identifying with any of the "ists." The term "feminism" made clear sense when it was first introduced, but it has definitely reached some cultural obsolescene. I'm very familiar with feminism because of education, so I know that it is inclusive of minorities and so on. You have to understand that most people haven't taken Women's Studies 101. Most people don't know that feminism advocates equal rights for all genders, sexes, sexual orientations, races, etc. I'm not surprised by Gwen Stefani's answer, because it pretty much reflects the mindset of most modern women. I am surprised that PJ Harvey wouldn't go into it a little more. Maybe BUST should spend a little more time on the "feminist question" with their interviewees instead of leaving it to the very end. I would be very interested to read an article that dealt exclusively with her viewpoints on feminism.


Am I the only person who noticed Smokey Robinson's freakish eyes??
I was taken aback when I read the PJ article ... she's my fave solo artist, and all my hardcore feminist friends just adore her. But I don't know, looking back (and having gone through my first 1 1/2 years of a women's history grad program since then), I can kind of see where she's coming from. She said she rejected feminism because her music wasn't made to inspire solely women, she wanted to inspire song-writers and music-makers in general, many of whom are men as well. And a lot of my professors and peers reject feminism because when you look at its whole history, they don't think it's radical enough ,or inclusive enough, or whatever (though that is a totally different conversation).

i could almost understand that, but who said feminism means only for women? back when i was a boy i thought dry was an awesome album, as did my comic book drawing dudes that got me into her. the question isn't "do you write strictly for women?" the question is "are you a feminist?"

as for rejection of feminism because of it's origin, it not being radical or inclusive enough, i think that's a cop out too. to me to gauge if an idea is potent or if you identify with it's aims you go with it's bare bones essentual idea-- if someone asks you if you are, say, a white supremesist, do you say,"well i think the early 40's british white supremesists had it right, but the american blah blah...." no. you know what the question is. "do you believe whites are a supreme race?" or are you a socialist, or whatever. same with feminism. "do you believe women should be treated with equality?" as simple as that. no need to parse the meaning of what is is. yeah, i'm sure everyone who has read one of my potitical posts re: feminism has heard me blather on about 3rd wave, but it is the IDEA. and ideas evolve.
I don't look at it as a cop out. I see it more as confusion with the "ists" and personal identities. Like I said, I have a hard time saying that I'm any kind of "ist" because, when I think of myself, I'm just "me." You could say that a "humanist" would encompass femisim, but I don't even identify with that, personally, because of the "human" root. If I recall, Drew Barrymore chose the word "humanist." point is that the root is confusing for most. It's not surprising that someone who hasn't spent a lot of time thinking about feminism and so on would feel confused, even if they agree with the principles. I think BUST should go into it a little more. BUST also needs to remain marketable, so of course they're going to shoot for covers of Gwen Stefani and the like.

ETA- A lot of busties have talked about Dolly Parton and whether or not she's a positive role model. On one hand, she's had shitloads of plastic surgery, especially on her breasts. On the other hand, she's very much an individual and isn't afraid to share her opinions. Personally, I would be way more interested in hearing what Dolly Parton has to say, rather than Gwen Stefani. *wink, wink, nudges BUST*
i'm all for dolly. she's a feminist icon for me for numerous reasons. i'd actually buy that ish-- and i haven't bought bust since i went by butta.

ETA- i heard than anna nicole was killed by an alien sandwich disguised as a howard k stern. crazy creepy cretins!
I'm all for Dolly, too--she's the kind of feminist who did the real down and dirty feminist work so that assholes like PJHarvey and Gwen Stefani can blithely say they aren't feminists, while reaping all the benefits provided by women like Dolly's efforts. They're standing on the shoulders of giants just like Dolly, those two, and they seem to mistake that perch for a toilet.

I'd much rather read about Dolly--who is more than well versed on the politics of gender and class and access--and the feminists she continues to inspire (go Sarah Harmer, go!).

um, chacha, i love you....

and how hilarious would it be to have dolly on the cover with the word "bust" above her? biggrin.gif
It'd be like the magazine had no purpose until it finally landed the Dolly Parton Interview.

Hee hee. I didn't even see that!

(...I'm blushing*****can you tell i love you too?!!)
Am I the only one who is totally fucked off at the lack of any Brit awards for Lily Allen? As per usual loads of shit people won again and it made my blood boil.

Especially the bloody Arctic Monkeys. I hate them so much that I have a twitch in my eye right now.
*twitches in sympathy*

fuck the artic monkeys. they're nothing special, imo. good, yes, but nothing amazing. Although i quite liked Amy Winehouse winning female solo artist, Lily should have won something (although at the same time, I do like the Fratellis and was glad they won)

Nelly Furtardo, Orson and The Killers though. No.

And what was Joss Stone wearing? I'm still trying to decide if i like it.
I was saddened too ... Lily Allen is one of the sassiest, beautiful and intelligent of Brit women. Saying that, I do love Amy Winehouse, her album but not so much her lack of eloquence; Nerina Pallot is also fantastic, best female was a tough category this year. I thought Lily should have won best album and possibly single (anything but Take fucking That) but I was, of course, happy that my home city's The Fratellis won best breakthrough. Also think that Lily should have been asked to perform as she's great live. Ah well, she's our best female, and not just for music.

eta: morn, Joss was wearing Mika's album cover! well, that's what it looked like.
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