Sep 18 2007, 12:00 PM
Sep 18 2007, 12:13 PM
Sep 18 2007, 12:21 PM
My facebook profile has me listed as a humanist. I thought devil worshipper was a little extreme, at first. Now I must spread the lord of the bark master! *evil laugh here*
Diva, the bar owner is a bit of a slut, but I hear he's, *ahem* well endowed. He's actually a really nice guy though...whatever.
How is everyone's afternoon going?
Sep 18 2007, 12:24 PM
I am havign mind-blowing chili and ooozie baked taters for dinner tonight. Minxy...wanna come? Heh...I said come.
Honestly, one of the things I appreciate most about regarding the world through "humanist" eyes is being able to accept that miracles happen, and we just don't know why, and that's OK. Also, I can take lessons from a variety of religions and see where they can be applied through reason, respect, admiration and love. I suppose if it didn't require a believe in a supernatural deity thingy, we'd be universalist unitarians. That's more or less how I was raised. Gandhi, when asked once why he embraced the Muslim separatists, said "We all believe in God. Does it matter how my ancestors chose to view God or how their ancestors chose to view God? So long as we all die with God in our hearts, we are brothers." This was a large basis for his love of the English, despite his obvious work for independence. They could never really argue with the whole "Jesus was anti-slavery" stuff.
My uncle taught sunday school for years. When I asked him how he explained Janism's "all religions are one" to kids (this, being a very heady thing to get around...Us vs. THEM not being applicable), he told me the story of the blind men and the elephant. One day, a group of blind men were taken to an elephant. Each stood at different parts...one at the tail, one a hoof, one an ear, etc. They were each asked to describe what they felt. When they all began to argue that they were NOT at the same place, an on-looked pressed that they WERE all at an elephant, but simply had different perspectives on what the elephant was.
Leave it to a 5,000 year old culture to nail that one, eh?
Sep 18 2007, 12:28 PM
...welllllll, except that your story presumes there's an elephant in the room. My version would start like this:
"Three blind men imagined they were touching something..."
Sep 18 2007, 12:31 PM
fair enough. the story does presume god to be a reality. I presume god to be a nice character in many different stories. Eight year olds in Sunday School, though...get the presumption #1.
Sep 18 2007, 12:45 PM
I suppose they would.
I definitely don't mean to come off as snarky (I swear... please believe me) but don't you think that by telling stories to eight year-olds that fallaciously state as given the existence of God (his demeanor notwithstanding) that you're undermining their freethinkingness (I invented that word)? I realize I'll get some "they're only kids!" responses but kids with early assumptions become adults with stubborn attachments.
Sep 18 2007, 12:53 PM
Yes, absolutly, which is why we don't subscribe to religion of any sort. I want my kid(s) to know the power of their own intellectual ability to see the world through a prism, not a telescope. If I did, though, I do tend towards the universalism structure. If one presumes that a Sunday School teacher believes the religion he or she is teaching, though, then arguing against the very belief structure is a mute point.
All secular humanists, moxieman and i included, come off as snarky. its our rite.
We did read the "God Delusion" afterall.
Sep 18 2007, 01:03 PM
It always amazes me how you can get people to believe just about anything, especially when they're kids. I betcha that if I had kids and taught them the principles of The Church of Rock, they'd actually believe me. It's not just kids. As adults, we've bought into all sorts of absolutely ridiculous stuff. A religion is just one step above a cult, in that it becomes more widespread. Scientology and The Church of Latter Day Saints are based on some of the stupidest shit I've ever heard. The people who came up with that stuff were smoking crack at the time. I realize that this sounds very intolerant of me but, shit...an alien ruler named Xenu? COME ON PEOPLE. I really don't think that most religions are far off. The Church of Rock is more believable that 90% of the B.S. out there.
ETA- You know what really pisses me off? When people give me this reaction of pity if I say that I don't believe in god. It's almost as though they're saying, "Oh poor, sad, empty girl. If only you could be as spiritually enlighted as I am." Plllbbbfff!! *makes fart noise with mouth* (how do you type that online anyway?)
Sep 18 2007, 01:23 PM
I LOVE "The God Delusion". I am actually including it in my senior's philosophy unit...along with some St. Thomas Aquinas. And Thich Nhat Hanh. And Descartes. And Nietzsche. And Satre. And Foucault. And Fanon.
I don't mind a little atheistic snobbery here and there. It's kind of refreshing for myself, having lived under the auspices of seriously strict christianity for most of my life (and as far as I'm concerned, the USA is run under christianity and that pisses me off). I know really good christians. But I like NOT looking through a lens of "FAITH". It puts the onus of a great many things on the people responsible, and not a bunch of weird superstition.
My seniors are taking some of the rules of courtly love and chivalric behavior and turning them into posters. This is great fun! The will be starting a selection from Dante's Inferno tomorrow. I love running the class like a college course. T hey are responsible for two projects and one major paper per quarter.
Sep 18 2007, 01:47 PM
I'm lovin' your reading selections and projects, minx!! It's good to know that there are kids out there being exposed to that sort of thing.
Fuck McFuckity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's only 3:03 and I want to be home NOW!! And I want potatoes!!!!! And my ipod!!!!!!!! *throws arms in a fit and stomps around room*
If there is a big man in the sky, he should throw me a fucking bone and give me back my damn ipod. Asshat.
Sep 18 2007, 02:41 PM
Mmmm, I have potatoes at home- I could make some tonight. I know this is almost as stupid as "how do I boil water?" but does anyone have any good tips on baking potatoes? I've never done it, and I rarely get them in restaurants because half the time, they're all dried out. So how do I keep them moist and not overbake them? I think what I have at home are pretty big baking potatoes.
Sep 18 2007, 02:49 PM
I usually just put them in the microwave for a minute and then bake them the rest of the way until the skin is crispy and the fork holes are a little bubbly (20 minutes?). I don't really know.
Sep 18 2007, 02:57 PM
Polly, if you're doing it in the oven, then 75-90 minutes at 375 should do it. If you're nuking them, go for 10-12 minutes. Seriously, I'm an expert at this one thing.
I'm such a whore for a good potato.
Sep 18 2007, 03:13 PM
I don't like potatoes when they've been cooked exclusively in the microwave. There has to be some oven use for a truly tasty baked potato.
Sep 18 2007, 03:31 PM
aargh, no new scooter for me! i should have known better than to get some cheap piece of chinese crap!
so i bring my new scooter home yesterday, spend two hours at the dmv getting the thing registered, and happily buzz about town all afternoon before work. so lunchtime comes and i decide to run down to the store for a rockstar. lo and behold, my damn headlights don't work, unless i hold the horn button, which is making a hideous whining/honking noise. i immediately call pepboys, tell them they're taking this piece of shit back, and they give me all kinds of shit about not being able to take it back once the title's been registered. until i tell them that's just fine, i'll just give my local paper a call and see if they'd be interested in a story about a national autoparts chain selling dangerously defective motor vehicles the locals. well, that changed their tune real quick, and they told me to bring the defect back and they'd replace it. i did a test run around the parking lot before loading it up this time, and everything seemed to be in working order. it was a slightly different model, and seemed a little slower on the pick-up, but i figured it was because it was low on gas. so i took it home, filled it up, got a little more speed out of it, and took it back down to my local dmv to get the title changed to the new vin. but i can't, cause this other scooter, it doesn't have the little sticker saying it meets california emission standards. so now i'm waiting to hear back from the manager at pepboys who was supposedly in a meeting when i called and might not be back in today, and i am so pissed off i could scream. they don't have any other working models in stock, so unless it turns out this one has the appropriate documentation and they just forgot to put the sticker on, and i can get it registered after all, motherfuckers are taking the damned thing back and giving me back my money. regardless of the outcome, i will never by a cheap scooter from a chain store again. i've already called around to local honda and schwinn scooter dealerships that i dismissed earlier in my scooter search as too expensive to start pricing the models i'm interested in. i'll have to wait for the added financial weight from my next paycheck in a couple of weeks, but it'll be worth it knowing i'm getting a well-made machine from a licensed dealer who specializes in nothing but the scooters they sell.
oh well, enough mememe.
polly, i usually nuke my taters in the microwave. start with five minutes and increase from there as needed. if you're worried about drying out, put some water in there with them. not them in
water, just in the microwave. or you can wrap them in damp paper towels before hitting the start button
i have nothing to add to the religion discussion, though i'm finding it fascinating, as my beliefs are a mishmash of religions and superstition. like mirrors and reflected surfaces don't show your actual physical self, but your spiritual self, your soul if you will. which is why i never look into one unless there's light shining directly on it. i don't have the detailed consequence of doing so quite worked out yet, but if that's your soul in there, then surely looking at it in the dark would show you, like, your evil twin dark soul or something. which completely conflicts with my whole yin/yang light/dark, nothing all good or bad about any one thing, we require balance, and need to accept the full spectrum, but there you go. i can't articulate my spiritual beliefs and/or lack thereof very well, but it all makes sense in my head, and i feel right with whatever outside forces may or not be acting in/on my life, so that's all that matters.
well, dear, that turned right back around into a mememe post, didn't it? well i must be off to get ready for work, since i'll be back on the bike for tonight or maybe longer.
and i'm taking crappy scooter numero dos to the store for one last run to the grocery store for cup (cups?) o' noodles, since that's what i'll be eating for the next two weeks. mmm, roasted chicken flavor....
p.s. totally off topic and random, but i saw a black and white fj cruiser this morning on my way to return crappy scooter numero uno, and i totally pictured jackaroo strapped in the back with fj driving and mr.fj hanging his bare ass out the passenger window, cause that seems like something he'd do.
Sep 18 2007, 03:31 PM
I am so hungry right now I can hardly stand it. I ate lunch today but my tummy is behaving like I ate nothing. I can't wait until I can get out of work and go make dinner.
I like all the religion talk in the thread too. I feel most close to God (in my interpretation) mainly when I am outside in nature or when I am with my pets. To me they are little miracles and remind me of how big and complicated and mysterious the world is that created these little beings.
Poodle, I think services at the Church of Rock would really...rock! You could start it for real. The guy I went to junior prom with started his own church. He got really religious after we graduated high school and last I heard a few years ago he still had it going and had had a pack of kids, maybe to populate his church!
CH, our music selection process for the dj has gone pretty well with no fights between me and Jfrito. There are so many good songs it's hard to stop adding. We have old stuff and some 70s stuff which I just love right now along with some songs from our youth. Jfrito seemed to back down on the chicken dance so we might not have it after all which would thrill me because I hate the chicken dance. I just hope the dj sticks to our playlist for the most part since we've put a fair amount of time with our guests' tastes in mind into it, but we're allowing requests, too. We are having our little grand march entrance song be "La La Love You" by the Pixies for the bridal party and for us it will be "Let's Do It" by Paul Westerberg and Joan Jett. Bridal party dance will be "Moondance" by Van Morrison because it isn't too slow and they all will know it. And I'm going to dance with my dad to "Unforgettable" by Nat King Cole. Not super-original but at least I found something, because I really want a dance with my dad. Some of the father/daughter dance songs were just creepy - "Butterfly Kisses" gives me the willies so none of that.
Sep 18 2007, 04:42 PM
Poodle, I LOVE that you belong to the Church of ROCK! That really made me smile. That, and the delicious looking potato.
I bought a chicken to roast, to properly christen the kitchen....yeah, its 87 degrees out today - that fucker is going in the freezer.
Grrrl - Boooooooo for Pepboys - I'm sorry to hear that they're yanking you around. I was so excited for you and your new wheels and fancy helmet! (((((scooter sitch resolution))))
I can't say I'm Christian anymore, which is saying something, as I worked for a lutheran church for 4 years, lived in a retreat community, and considered seminary. In alot of ways, going to seminary was really the safest route I could have taken, career-wise, but in the end, it was living in the retreat community that made me realize that I had evolved beyond the parameters of what the church had to offer. So I've wandered to a Unity church, and then moved on from that, and mostly read a bunch of new thought spiritual kind of stuff on my own, and go to a shamanic meditation group from time to time, when I need to spiritually re-group with a community setting. And for now, that's good. But it feels healthy to just keep traveling on the belief continuum.
MRG is giving me a helluva time here today - cramps, migraine, and my back is killing me - probably from all the unpacking I've been doing in the kitchen.
Minxy, that is quite the line-up of serious studies for your seniors - I am totally impressed! I'm not sure many teachers could pull off teaching those authors in one class. And Boooooooo! for the asshole taking the newspaper away from you - I hope you can do something about that.
I think its omelets for dinner tonight - no energy for anything else.
Sep 18 2007, 05:36 PM
Hello all! Hi turbo, poodle, diva, polly, CH, moxie, minx, FJs, grrrl, marileen, and everyone else!
Happy Birfday, lore! *breaks out the spankie paddle* How many is it?
I love these discussions of religion and spirituality. I love hearing what everyone else thinks about, and it's really interesting to try and articulate my own thoughts, because I let them stew for so long without trying to intellectualize them!
I think I've probably always believed I'm a humanist, but in my head, I'm not sure that precludes spirituality, either. I tried to be a christian when I was younger, but in the end, it just didn't fit - and for the longest time, I was mad at the christian history of oppression, but I'm mostly over the worst of my rage now. I called myself a goddess-worshipper for years, so that I could believe in a higher power in a way that was comfortable for me. Now I'm pretty neutral about what god is or isn't. But I got involved with some similar stuff like turbo a few years ago, in a group that met at the women's centre to explore meditation and spirituality in a more universal way. I could never shut off my inner cynic when I was involved, and I just don't do group spirituality comfortably - but I also got so much out of it, like a real feeling of peace, and also I kept having these strong visions during meditations, especially when there were bowls and bells and drums involved. But then, I've always had the craziest, most vivid dreams - my friends are usually astounded when I recount them - so I often wondered if the meditation state was just tapping into the same part of the brain that creates dreams. Maybe it's just the artist/musician in me. But THEN I wonder where the art and the music comes from, too, because I never feel more spiritual than when I'm creating something or making music. I dunno. I'm rambling!
But I will say, guitarboy made me play his electric guitar last night, and the amplified sound of my riffs definitely enhanced my religious experience!
Perhaps being in a band is getting me over my "group experience" issues. I am so totally joining the Church of ROCK!
I cannot join the church of the potato, I'm afraid. The scientific process that governs my medication (and my bowels!) prevents me from believing in the potato gods, even though I really WANT to believe.
I must dash back out to the store....be back later!
Sep 18 2007, 07:43 PM
[ducks head in]
Happy birthday, Lore!!! Hope it's a good'n!
Mr FJ's new profile pic made me laugh out loud. Soooooooo cuuuuute!
Marileen, I must admit that I envy you a bit. Since Sheff and I had such a small wedding, there was no dancing. Our "dirst dance" took place the following month at the annual '80s Prom at a local club. I think we danced to Erasure, but I'm not totally sure. When is the big day?
I bake my potatoes the same way that Alton Brown does.
I love that crispy skin. Full of nutrients, too!
I also wanted to say that I love the religion discussion going on in here.
My father was a preacher. My maternal grandfather was a preacher. So as you can imaigine, I had a Christian upbringing. I was baptised, but only because I chose to be (I was 8 or so at the time). I still consider myself a Christian, but sometimes it feels more like I'm identifying myself as part of a culture more than part of a faith ... like people who say they're Jewish even though they haven't been inside a synogogue for 20 years. I definitely believe that there are "higher" powers, though. This is an amazing universe that we live in & we've only just begun to understand a little bit of it.
My husband was raised in the Quaker faith and a lot of their beliefs resonate with me. The only thing that feels weird is their meetings - just sitting in a room in silence unless someone feels moved to speak. I'm used to something far more structured. Plus, I still feel like I should be singing hymns when I go to church!
Sep 18 2007, 08:19 PM
Oooow! My bum!!!!
Wow! How did you know it was my Birfday?!?! (I'll have to read a little to find out) I was just signing in to sheepishly tell you guys it was my BD
You're supersweet! Thanks!
Sep 19 2007, 04:54 AM
TJ- the spirtuality continuum, eh? (and here is where my total dork-ness appears). Is that like the Q Continuum or the space-time continuum? Yes, I can be toilet tank dunked now.
We had a lovely dinner of chili and baked potato (poke holes in top, wrap in foil bake for apx 1 hr ish at 400, let rest, enjoy) after miss moxette hit the hay last night. The only disappointment was the sour cream that had gone bad. Poop.
Anyway, i'm taking the morning off today, since i have an eye doc appt at 11AM. I'm just trying to figure out what to do with my alone time. Eh, I'll probably end up working from home. We're swampped, but its not so time efficient to go downtown, come back here, and head back downtown. At least I don't have to get dressed. There is that.
Sep 19 2007, 06:23 AM
Happy belated birfday, lore!!
Marileen, those sound like nice musical selections. I love Moondance. And I totally know what you're saying about nature and pets invoking spirituality. I marvel at how the universe (or whatever) came together to form my kitties, each with their own personalities. The same goes for humans. I often joke that god musta been drunk or lazy when he came up with Oscar because it looks like someone dripped black paint on his foot and the coloring on his face isn't quite symmetrical. Cuteness. Life is truly amazing, no matter how you look at it.
"my medication (and my bowels!) prevents me from believing in the potato gods, even though I really WANT to believe." Hahaha!!
Hi rose!! Nice to see you 'round here!! Interesting comment on Christianity as culture--like Jewish culture. I still feel like I'm part of the Catholic church even though I sooo don't believe any part of it. My extended family is super Catholic and it seems that there's no escaping it. I've come to accept it and actually appreciate it.
Mornin' mox!! Any chili and taters left for us?! Mmmmm...I need to get out the crockpot one of these days...
Hi turbo!! ~*~*~*~anti MRG pain vibes~*~*~*~
I have Homer Simpson's version of The Stones' "She's So Cold" in my head (from the Rock 'n' Roll Fantasy Camp episode). I'm so hot for me, I'm so hot for me, I'm so hot for me...
Sep 19 2007, 06:40 AM
Mox and Mr. FJ, I'm so enjoying reading the conversation! I have a copy of The God Delusion at home, but I've not had a chance to read it yet. I've also got God is not Great and Everything you know about God is Wrong, the Disinformation Guide to Religion. I'm also looking at picking up something by the Dalai Lama. That dinner sounds excellent!
Poodle, have you heard about the Scientology version of creationism? It's interesting. And according to scientologist, psychiatry and psychology are tools of oppression used by evil alien civilizations. Have you got your iPod yet?
Minx, that is the coolest reading list ever!
Polly, did your potatoes come out yummy?
Grrrl, that is the shits about your scooter.
Marileen, those sound like good songs so far!!!
Turbo, how are you feeling today???
Doodle, I totally understand what you are saying about your beliefs.
Lore, I saw it was your birthday at the bottom of the lunge where it says who is celebrating their birthday! How was your day?
Well, I did the usual last night, took hound out, worked out then chilled. How exciting! That's pretty much it this morning.
Sep 19 2007, 06:55 AM
Oooh, lots of discussion in here lately!
Happy belated birthday Lore! Woo woo!
Marileen, I agree with poods, your music is going to be really great.
Grrrl, booooo on your scooter sitch! Man, that stinks.
Great, guys, now I want a baked potato. I haven't had one in a while. Perhaps I will have to pick up some taters.
Mr K is doing South Beach. Phase 1. We made one of the recipes for dinner on Monday night. I didn't like it. I'm going to leave him to it.
I am not sure where I stand on the religion discussion. I want to consider myself an atheist, but in a way I am scared to do so. Does that make sense? So perhaps I am more agnostic. Mr K and his family are Methodist. Heavily so. His dad is a pastor. Methodists are pretty open, I agree with lots of their beliefs, except, you know, the JC part. Which is a pretty big part. I just have a hard time with it b/c it doesn't seem to make sense. I mean, I guess it could have happened, but I don't know.
In other news, I went shopping Monday night. I bought a hot dress and a shirt. And some really nice black tall boots. They have a wooden heel. They are sweet & I can't wait to wear them.
Sep 19 2007, 07:27 AM
no chili and tater left. Well, that's not really true. I made a huge batch of chili a couple weeks ago, and froze individual servings. So, there are plenty of containers of chili left, just not from last night specifically.
Sigh...i have to go get dressed adn run a couple errands before my eye doc appt.
Sep 19 2007, 07:39 AM
I want to consider myself an atheist, but in a way I am scared to do so. Does that make sense?
Makes total sense. I used to pray long after my apostasy as insurance, just in case I was wrong. How fucked up is that?
"Our Father who art in Heaven, I don't really believe you exist anymore but just in case I'm wrong about this I hope this prayer makes up for all the shit I'm doing. Amen."
I figured, what if the lunatics were right? But then I thought, nah... how cruel a heavenly joke would that be to make the wingnuts and douchebags of the world custodians of the one, true faith with a Scripture plagued with dubious inconsistencies as its infallible holy doctrine? This place needn't a God to have created it. And if I'm wrong, well... it was obviously His will that I disbelieve in Him because, after all, He apparently thought it wise to create a skeptic of me then offer this skeptic absolutely zero evidence to reason out His existence. So either God doesn't exist or He's an absentee parent and fortunately for me absenteeism suggests He'll continue to ignore me even after I'm dead so the chances I'll spend an eternity in Hell for my apostasy would mean He'd have to wake up from His divine nap. Unlikely.
Sep 19 2007, 08:00 AM
I find it infuriating that many relgions discount and demonize women. Every polytheistic relgion stressed the importance of men and women as creators. Then all of a sudden some mysogynists get into power and women are nothing but baby factories and men are the sole creators.
Mmm chilli, I think I'm going to make some stew tonight.
Sep 19 2007, 08:58 AM
Well, no potatoes- I had the same problem turbo did- I got out of work and went, "uh, when did it get hot?" We've had several 60 degree days and then all of a sudden, it's back up to 85.
I was planning on grilling salmon, but I ended up having to turn on the oven anyway because the salmon fillets fell apart, so I baked them in their marinade of Greek yogurt, paprika, garlic, mixed herbs and lemon juice. Shredded some white cheddar on top and some bread crumbs. It was surprisingly good!
Mmm, chili. I think I have some in my freezer too.
Sep 19 2007, 08:59 AM
I think that men (as a whole, throughout human history) have an innate inferiority complex because women are able to carry and give birth to new life. Women have the ultimate human power--sexuality--on their side. Men, threatened by that power, have used alternative techniques (religion) to place themselves in a dominant position and make themselves relevant. It basically comes down to uterus envy.
I'm sorry 'bout the South Beach meal, kari. I read the South Beach book a while back and I felt hungry just looking at the recipes.
No ipod yet. What really pisses me off is that it's sitting at the postal station in my neighborhood because the package won't fit in my slot (heh). They're only open until 5:00 PM though, and I'm stuck here until then. Grrrr....maybe I'll leave early today.
Sep 19 2007, 09:47 AM
I just get pissed when magical thinking overrules plain logic. I'm sorry, but no damned faeries are going to pop out of the woods and dictate the fortunes of your life. I get pissed when magical thinking becomes the justification for power over another human being. I have a kid right now who is reading "The God Delusion" and his reaction was very interesting. He said, "I hate this book already!!" I told him that if it pissed him off that much and elicited that much of a core reaction, then he should probably investigate WHY!!
Sep 19 2007, 11:03 AM
What? No faeries?! Waaaaaahhhh!! *does best Ralph Wiggum impersonation*
Culture, I am about a page away from finishing mental_floss. I can't help but reading everything right away. I'm just glad that they have a decent website to keep me occupied in the meantime.
Sep 19 2007, 11:35 AM
I think that men (as a whole, throughout human history) have an innate inferiority complex because women are able to carry and give birth to new life.
As a person with a penis that motive has never in my life occurred to me. I think the greater likelihood is that if males have an innate inferiority complex toward women it's because so many men fear being evaluated as unworthy of reciprocated sexual attraction from the female no matter how arrogantly they may act otherwise; that a woman's assent (or not) to a sexual relationship, even if only a hypothetical sexual relationship, places the woman in a position of power over the male.
By the way, as one who uses masculine pronouns when referring to God... If there is a God I'm sure It doesn't have any need for a penis or balls and therefore cannot actually be male
but I simply acquiesce to convention when I write "Him" and "His" and also because "It" and "Its" tend to trip up my syntax.
Sep 19 2007, 12:05 PM
I agree, mr. FJ. Power can basically be boiled down to sexuality. I mean, really, we're here to reproduce and women are in the position of selection in the whole process. As for the uterus thing, I'm not saying that men consciously sit down and think about how they wish they could give birth. I do think it's part of the complex though.
I think the sexual revolution and feminism have created a very confusing power struggle between men and women. Clearly, it was there before, otherwise a movement would have never occurred in the first place. Women gave up a lot of their sexual power in favor of other values and forms of power normally held by men (independence, notoriety, money, influence, etc.). In the end, I think it's a good thing because now women have a voice (at least here). Sometimes I wish women would reclaim a little more sexual power, if only to pressure men to get their acts together. It seems like the men my age (20's) are a bunch of non-committal underachieving slobs. If it was harder for them to get laid, then I'm sure they'd be compelled to finish school and get grown-up jobs. It's like today's young men are suffering from an identity crisis.
Sep 19 2007, 01:09 PM
Now THAT'S an interesting thought.
Competition for resources. Work to get laid. I feel a new campaign coming on, ladies and gentlemen.
Seriously, though...it SHOULD be harder to pass on our genetic code, but us human mammals have really fucked up the whole process with other things like FULFILLMENT and whatnot...not that I intrinsically have a problem with being fulfilled, but I don't know that Mother Nature or whatever the hell really prepared the brain of humans to deal with Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs on the high end, ya know. Okay, he's a good provider, but he's got some OCD issues and needs to stay home and you would rather go see a French film. A lot of the kids that I see getting knocked up, and I am sure that Diva and CH could attest to this one in that THEY HAVE NO BUSINESS BREEDING. Their genetic material is NOT superior.
Maybe that's how I should attack the safe sex issue in schools...via a strictly Darwinian argument.
Sep 19 2007, 01:27 PM
Minx, I see where you are coming from, however, coming from a Darwinian approach, if you can have children, then you are at an advantage, and your genes were meant to be passed on. It's when one is suffering from infertility that it is, perhaps, nature's way of saying your genetic material was not meant to be passed on to future generations.
If you look at every other animal in the animal kingdom, once females start menstrating they start breeding, human's, being another animal, are working in the same way. We know, however, that just because you get your period at 11 doesn't mean that you are ready to hace chidlren. Evolution doesn't take into account societal stanindg, socio economic status nor maturity levels. From a purely scientific standpoint once one reaches sexual maturity, it's time to pass on genes and ensure that there is species survival. There are cultural issues behind this, too. And one must also beg to ask the question, is Science tinkering with the natural order of things? I ask this only from a scientific viewpoint only.
Poodle, in terms os sexual power, I agree. I also must add that I think that some people have confused sexual power with taking risks sexually. How is waking up in a strangers bed, hungover and unsure of what happened powerful. On the other hand, if one is fully aware of what they are doing and are taking the appropriate, safe measures is that a woman taking control of her sexuality? Since she is aware of what she wants and knows the consequences then I say yes. This gets into a whole different can of worms in terms of people really having a "choice" or is choice merely an illusion. Sure, we can all make choices, but if you go against the societal or cultural norm then you are branded a deviant or some sort of societal reject and weirdo. You will face consequences for your "choice" if you go against that which is ingrained in societal and/or cultural beliefs.
Mr. FJ, my problem with the use of referring to God as a man is that it assumes that only men create, when in other religions, prior to monotheism emerging was that the earth was never created without a woman and man diety. Things were much more egalitarian.
Sep 19 2007, 01:43 PM
The best procreation story I ever heard here is about the man who has many, many child support cases open. He says that god told him to spread his seed throughout the land to as many women as he could. And did he plan on supporting any of those children? Oh, hell no! He believes that he's done his worldly duty of knocking up many, many women and giving them his precious seed. Most of those kids are now on welfare.
I want to find that guy and ask him exactly why he thinks that his jobless dogmatic seed is so goddamn special and why it absolutely must be passed on and not taken responsibility for. It's like he thinks he's a human fertilizer dispenser. Now that I'm going to be doing some paternity cases, I'm sure I'll find more like him, and you bet your ass I'm going to ask that question.
And then there's the guy who thinks that years and years of back child support (well over $5,000 since that's what we needed to take his passport away) should just be wiped clean away because he decided to become a born-again and do missionary work somewhere in South America. Like his children didn't exist before he became a bible banger. Hah! That soooo didn't happen.
I think men set up religion because they finally figured out that women can run the world pretty much without men, we just need their goo to make more people. I wonder how hard it must've been for those first men who set up the structure to make all the women go along who'd had more power before that. What did they have to do to trick them into it?
Sep 19 2007, 04:04 PM
*jumps into the interesting discussion waaaay too late*
I read an article a couple weeks ago....somewhere in my mass of RSS feeds, about how we all have twice as many female ancestors as males. Historically, women have been statistically far more likely to reproduce, may have children with more than one partner, etc...which generations and generations hence, means we are descended of more women than men...there was some kind of complex logic in there somewhere too, but I thought it was interesting.
Other than that, my brain is too fried today to add anything else of merit to that conversation.
Mox, I think the spiritual continuum is far more like the space-time than Q.
Its quite warm here again tonight, and I still haven't really properly gone grocery shopping...not sure what we're going to do for dinner. I'm kind of worn out this week, and don't feel like cooking much.
Sep 19 2007, 05:26 PM
I heard about that ancestry thing somewhere, too, turbo!! I can't remember where I came across it though. One man could probably impregnate the entire female population (via artificial insemination) assuming that he was blowing loads as often as possible throughout his lifetime. That's billions and billions of sperm. I say we recruit Johnny Depp.
If humans have more female ancestry, then it would make way more sense for families to pass on the maternal surnames. I can trace back the paternal roots of my family to the 1600's, but I can barely figure out the maternal component other than the names of the wives involved. I like the idea of people getting both their maternal and paternal surnames vs. the current system of a middle name + a paternal surname. If I have kids, I'm gonna give them all my surname in place of a middle name. That way, people of the future could look at my children's names and easily conclude that they have roots in the Poodle family. That's a good argument for hyphenation. Does anybody in here hyphenate? There's such a stigma with hyphenation, but it makes a lot of sense, genealogically speaking.
The republican and I have had many arguments over surnames. He thinks women should be ecstatic over taking their husbands names. Whatever. His wife actually changed her surname to her middle name, which isn't so bad, I guess, if your middle name doesn't have much meaning. My middle name is actually a surname of my extended family, so I'm unwilling to change it. I really don't want to change my surname because I feel like it explains where I came from. Heh...we have some family friends with a very phallic last name that rhymes with "sick." One of their sons married a woman whose first name is "Ricka." Yep, now her name is Ricka @ick. That's insane. Any husband who expects his wife to take that last name is, well, a DICK. Screw that.
ETA- Yay!! I picked up my new "used" iPood at the post office today!!! I don't even think it was used more than once, if at all. Right now she's busy copying all of my songs--all 2,926 of them. Yayayayay!!
Sep 19 2007, 05:48 PM
Me three on the ancestry thing. I too 2nd the Johnny Depp recruitment.
I always want to say to the fucks who think that getting religion or moving equals don't support your offspring, "Think of sex like lunch, to save money, BROWN BAG IT."
Really. God or Buddha, Kermit the Frog, who-ever-the-fuck your religious icon of choice insert here, did not mean sire a bunch of kids you have no plans of raising, supporting or even knowing, when he/she/they/puppet said, "Go forth and procreate"
The ubiquitous "they" came up with that when 3 out of every 5 babes died within the first month of life, and when we were all dying off whilst running around clubbing shit to death to eat and foraging for berries in the goddamn wilderness.
And it's true. Why is it always the dumb ass pricks with no life, job, aspirations, personal hygiene, that feel it is their civic DUTY to impregnate every half witted dumb ass BITCH who will lay down or get hoisted up against the nearest wall?
Why NOT the rocket scientists, bio-chemical engineers, or Johnny Depp?
***walkingbitch licks her Tootsie Roll pop and ponders, "the world may never know...."***
Sep 19 2007, 06:18 PM
Yeah, I wish the fundies (whether Christian, Muslim, whatever) would use their effin' brain cells and realize that these scripts were written thousands of years ago and have barely any relevance today. A lot of those rules have to do with disease. What reeeeally pisses me off is that people will refer to the old testament when it comes to procreation, yet they'll still come home after church and eat ham. WAIT!!! The old testament says that pork is unclean!!!!!!! So are menstrual periods and pregnancy!!! Oh, well, that's different!!!! I'm sure that 99% of the fundies eat bacon and fuck their wives while they're pregnant or on the rag. Fuckers.
ETA- The other day, I watched the most depressing documentary about women living in Iran and Afghanistan. I just wish I could run over there and hug them. Those women have been pushed into procreation at the onset of their menstrual periods, and there is a huge problem with women trying to burn themselves to death. Hmmmm...you'd think that it would be a sign that things are fucked up if all of your women are attempting/committing suicide, but NOOOOO. They're just plain evil!!! Women are so fucked up and they need men to guide them!!! Sinners!!!
Sep 19 2007, 06:22 PM
I'm sure that 99% of the fundies eat bacon and fuck their wives while they're pregnant. Fuckers.
Sep 19 2007, 06:27 PM
At the same time, mr. FJ?! Damn, I'm a veghead and the thought of bacon and sex turns me on. It reminds me of the Seinfeld episode where George eats during sex. Yeah...the two best parts of life...combined....
ETA- I dare someone in the lounge and their partner to have bacon sex. Seriously. Cook up some bacon and lay it all over the sheets and each others' bodies and then report back to us. I counting on the FJ's here. Really, I'm not joking. If I ate meat, I would totally reel XRB into having bacon sex. Fake bacon just isn't the same.
Sep 19 2007, 06:29 PM
Nice to see you in here WB!!! Come play with us more often! We haven't had nearly enough visitors lately.
Yeah, I get pretty militant about the name thing, and its probably a good thing that I'm not looking to have kids, as I would INSIST that they have my last name...even though my surname is from my father, still, I think the maternal naming system is due for a revival. I'm all for name flexibility - call yourself whatever you like, just have a conscious thought about it. When turbomann and I were planning our wedding, I campaigned for picking a totally new name for ourselves, but it didn't wash, and we just decided that we were happy keeping our own names and calling it a day. Now if our families would catch on that nothing about our names have changed, I would be happy. It kind of chaps my ass when I get things addressed to Mrs (grrrr on anything Mrs) turbomann, or mrs turbojenn-turbomann. Its been 5 years, people, figure it out!
Mmmmm....poodle said bacon. *drools*
I am loving the hearty discussion in here - its been awhile since we had a good theoretical discourse!
Sep 19 2007, 06:30 PM
At the same time, mr. FJ?!
Can't... answer... Must chewfuck.
Sep 19 2007, 06:45 PM
hehe...bear's going to wonder why next time he "comes" over I'm gonna be cooking bacon....
Well, I haven't weighed in on the religion convo. I'm pretty New Agey. I think we all keep coming back until we get it right. To condense it into a nutshell.
Sep 19 2007, 06:45 PM
I haven't heard or used "Mrs." in so long. It's weird. I'm so used to legalese now that "Mrs." barely exists in my vocabulary. I could never see myself as a "Mrs." I guess that makes me a bitch.
Seriously, I want someone in here to have bacon sex. I'm counting on all of you omnivores out there.
Damn, I rarely crave meat, but the other day diva and I were seriously ravenous and I was ogling a little girl's cheeseburger. I usually allow myself a cheeseburger once or twice a year, and I've been feelin' the need for it lately. It's always really hard for me, #1) because I'm obsessive, and #2) because I always feel icky the day after. Still, I won't eat pork, because the bible tells me so.
Nah, I just really like pigs. That's all. I can't eat 'em, even though their back fat tastes super good. I'll admit that bacon is one of the tastiest foods out there. Seriously, though, pigs are smarter than dogs, which I just can't get over. I want to have a pet pig(s) someday when I live in a place where there's enough space and zoning allows it.
ETA--Avast ye comely wenches!!!!! It's International Talk-Like-A-Pirate Day!!!!! ARRRRRRRR!!!!
Sep 19 2007, 07:16 PM
Poodle, I'm with you, I would love to have a pet pig - I've always wanted to raise some. The neighbors had a couple pigs every year, and we definitely raised them like pets, taught them all sorts of tricks...and then they became food, which was sad - but those pigs had it good while they were with us, and growing up in farm country, you sort of get used to it. We also used to chase the headless chickens around the yard on butchering day...and then, there was the plucking. yuck.
On a lighter note, here's some finished pics of the kitchen.
It will be painted next week - yipee!
Sep 19 2007, 07:32 PM
I can totally understand why people would raise animals to eat them. My veghead thing has more to do with the treatment of animals. Hell, I don't even care if people eat dogs and cats, as long as those animals have great lives. Unfortunately, pigs taste really good. I'm not sure about dogs and cats. My question: would you eat a greyhound if it tasted really good and was raised in a healthy, caring environment?
Dude, there was this headless chicken that died within the past year. I think it's name was Gary. It kept on living after it's head was chopped off, so the weird owner fed the thing with an eyedropper and it lived for a long-ass time. Hilarous!!
Awesome pics, turbo. So are you gonna go with an olive color for the walls?
ETA- Okay, I guess the chicken's name was Mike, and he didn't die recently, but he lived without a head for a very long time. Here's Mike doin' his thang:
ETAA- Alex the Grey Parrot just died, though. Fucking genius. He was 31. Parrots rock. Turtles, man, they can live up to 150 years. No, I'm not stoned. I've had a couple too man beers though. SOOOO...here's my next QUESTION: IF YOU COULD CHOOSE TO BE AN ANIMAL OTHER THAN A HUMAN, WHAT ANIMAL WOULD YOU BE? Also, are you willing to have BACON SEX and tell us about it?
Sep 19 2007, 07:56 PM
Yeah, I heard about Alex the parrot - NPR did a sweet obit last week. ((((RIP Alex))))
I dunno about eating greyhound - not because I love them all to bits, I just don't think they would be very good eating - all bone, muscle and sinew....they really don't have any body fat...I think they'd be very tough and dry. But yeah, I agree that respecting our food sources is important, and not something our giant agrifarms can do. My fairy godmother helps run her family cattle ranch in SD, and they have 250,000 head of cattle on a 10 square mile farm, and they've remained true to the old ways, for the most part - their cows roam free to graze (when its not snowing), and in cold weather, they call them into the barns by playing mozart music from speakers in the fields....a little modern, a little old school.
Yeah, I think we're going to go with the olive green for the walls....I've got about 20 swatches, and we'll get some test samples this weekend to try them out, and see what we like. I still need to finish battling the wallpaper mural of doom before the painter comes.