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Full Version: Fun with Floggers II -- BDSM revisited.
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There was a note about this being done vaginally as well. Have you ever done figging vaginally?
Miss Deena
Never insertion yet. But against the clit yes and let me tell you, WOW! The sensation is like I have never felt before. And on the other hand i have gotten the most splendid of reactions for my subs!!
XXXpost with Deena!

Y'know, I think I read that figging can trace it's history to equestrians. The military & grifters used it because it made a horse keep it's head/tail up & look frisky. I suppose it does the same thing to people.
Miss Deena
Trust me it would would make almost anyone look frisky! Plus there are no lingering sensations all you get is a great memory!
I'm totally going to try it. And pumping!
I knew I loved ginger.
Mr. Pugs has been talking about buying some rope lately. Tonight, after dinner, he said, “Let’s go to Lowes and get some rope.”

I was like, “What? Now?”

Yep and off we went. We got 5/16th diameter nylon rope. It’s very soft. Mr. pugs tied my hands to the bed and tied my thighs wide apart so I couldn't close them. Then he used the Hitachi on me. He must have teased me with it for 20 minutes. It felt like forever. He'd turn it on and off, on and off, on, right when I was about to come, off. He said he wanted to leave me there all night and that he'd sleep in the other room and come in and fuck me off and on throughout the night. Once I came twice he fucked me then untied me, flipped me over and fucked me in the ass until he came.

The rope was soooo much fun. Mr. Pugs said it's the best $7.00 he's ever spent. Being tied up with rope has been one of my biggest fantasies recently. I’m so glad he made it come true. It was great.

Next time I want to do it again but I want him to be rougher with me. This time he just warmed me up. It was really fucking great. I was worried about knots and all that but we found a very simple easy knot online. Mr. pug mastered it in a matter of minutes. I’ll write more tomorrow. Right now I’m exhausted and need my sleep. I’ve been sick this week so I don't have the stamina I usually have.


lucky duck!

i <3 being tied up. it's so freaking H-O-T!

my favorite was being tied up at night (like i was gonna run off or something....) and i swear, i rarely slept better.

make sure that you are aware of your circulation-- if your limbs fall asleep or get numb, get out of those ropes asap. god am i ever safety sue! you can try saran wrap bondage too. i loved it. who know plastic wrap was so strong....*starts to feel hot and bothered*

see what you did pugs? wink.gif

if you guys feel artsy, you can always explore kinbaku-- japanese rope bondage. one of my idols, (mistress) madori put out out a great book, The Seductive Art of Japanese Bondage, that is fantastic. she also does workshops, but they are steep--300-600 dollars, but she's one of the best, and she's sooooo worth it. i've seen her play and she is badass. any dom/me worth their salt will tell you she's the dom/me's domme.


i hope i am not jinxing things, but my friend and i are starting a new bdsm equipment/furniture fab business, strict machine.
...hopefully everything will be up and running in a year. the game plan is to make stuff that is aesthetically beautiful, super functional, and very discrete-- as far as you can get from the cliche big leather box stuff. it's pretty exciting. trying to put this together-- my friend is a freaking phenomenal welder too, and experienced in upholstery. and where i've got creativity coming out of my cute lil' booty, she'll be the brainsis of the bunch, she's the technician. it's so funny, she and i have been talking about this since we met each other in welding school. i told her about the idea and she was immediately down.... last week i talked to a domme friend of mine, and she was telling me about the problem's she was having with some bdsm furniture she ordered, and then things just started to fall into place... got equipment, and a place to do the work, and we can get most of the materials we need at cost from her employer... so now i am sourcing some items, and hopefully by may we will be working on our first prototype... i'll keep y'all up on developments!
Oh, my. HB & I went through a little Shibari phase. It was fun. It sounds weird, but it made me feel really pretty. Like a present or something. To look down at my own body & see it so carefully wrapped. The way he couldn't keep his hands/eyes off of me whilst I was trussed up in sexy purple bonds.

Long distance sucks.
have you tried just talking to beep about being tied up rudder?

it really doesn't need to be at all menacing. my daddy would tie me up with an air of complete sweetness....

i come from the same place-- being tied up is only slightly erotic for me, it is primarily about being cared for, valued. that's why i say i am the worst bondage sub ever-- if someone i trust ties me up, my body loses all tension, and within 10 minutes i am usually fast asleep. for me it is utterly calming in a way that i just can't get unless i am bound.

in all honesty it is one of the things i miss most now that i'm not with my daddy/gf anymore. :/
Rudderless, I know in my experience, I've encountered some men who have major difficulties with things like this, and also because I am really into degredation, they have a hard time because they see it as being disrespectful, and see it being abusive. Which it is not.

Why not try light play first and see how he feels about it? Maybe even something mild like biting or spanking? There is a misconception that all SM has to be really hard core, leather, ballgags, electroplay, etc.

If I am reading correctly, I believe what you are asking is who has the control is this sort of situation. In my opinion, in a healthy Sm relationship, each party, whether top of bottom, there is an equal amount of control. If the bottom is uncomfortable, the top should notice and ask if everything is okay. Similarly the reason there is a code word, and the other party should respect their partners desire to slow things down or stop. This is also control.

The anticipation of what could happen next is amazing. Sensory reactions add to the scene.
yeah! what she said! lol....

i think i kind of straddle the degredation thing, i like that but i must have the trust of the top i play with-- and this is where after care is make or break, you can say and do terrible things durring a scene, but it is of the utmost importance to "leave the place as you found it" self esteem wise. if i see a top give no aftercare, i will not play with them, period. but this is for later.

when i was dating kitty, she loved being choked. for me, and my core understanding of myself as a feminist could not reconcile itself with the idea of choking the girl that i loved-- i didn't want to even consider going down that path for fear of falling into some abyss.

the thing that changed it was my want to please her. she told me, she didn't know why it turned her on, but it did, and she wanted to share that side of herself with me. we already had a safe word, so we went over that, and she asked me if i would just put my hand on her throat. use no pressure, just place it there, and to let her feel that. and the next time we were playing she put my hand on her throat... and i saw how profoundly it turned her on.

we talked about it after (hello aftercare!) and we eventually progressed to choking, then i wanted to try it, and i also found it extremely erotic, but not when anyone does it, but when that trust is there....

getting tied up, for me is an act of extreme submission-- and really, i prefer it as an isolated event. i don't care for being spanked, or flogged or anything other than, probably heavy petting and vanilla sex. it's the idea that i belong to you, i am vulnerable-- i am open. i'm usually super self-aware, super self concious (my friends will tell you, they can't tell when i'm drunk i hold on to those reins so tightly) but when i am tied up, i am hers, she is everything to me, she is my focus, all of that focus on myself falls away and i focus on pleasing her. and i am free! those things that my daddy has said to me when i've been tied up, have been some of the most profound things we've had in our relationship. even now, certain cue words she used durring those times, have the greatest physical, emotional effect on me.

i don't know if i've discussed my eating fetish, but when she would tie me up and feed me was a means of reaching a short hand. a pavlovian response to her. even now, i'll be eating at the table with her, and she'll say "open." in a certain way. and i literally get chills, i breathe more deeply, and i go into a light trance. she doesn't need to tie me up to get me into that head space, that subspace, but tying me up, allowed me to be open to her. when otherwise i would have a very hard time letting her in.

lol... i got serious trust issues.... wink.gif

but no, that belonging is one of the most beautiful experiences i've had.
GT, I can take mild degredation from anyone, just in terms of being called a slut or a whore. But, with my top, I take things to a much deeper level. He's the only person I can trust to do that.

as for the aftercare, you have hit the nail on the head. My top leaves things which occurred in the scene in the scene. We do discuss things, however, this is usually in the context of why we like the things we do. If we are trying something new, it is discussed outside the scene.

with trust issues, how can one not have trust issues when it comes to Sm play? You have to have trust with your top or bottom. I couldn't do what I do with just anyone. When you get to the point that you can do that which you truly desire, and be open with yourself and your partner, and have this person accept you, without question and without judgement. How could you not open up to that person? There are only a few people who know what I really like, and only one man who knows what I like. He is the only person I trust to take me to the level of degredation without judging me for it. There are times when I am having sex that I enjoy being made to feel like less than nothing. I enjoy being verbally abused so horribly and having really nasty things said to me, it's difficult for me to say to a man, "so, hey, can you verbally abuse me and make me feel like nothing but a hole with a heart beat?" I don't think that would go over so well. It took me probably six and a half years to tell my top what I was into (in all fairness, things also didn't start out sexually, but for me to trust him enough in our friendship).

as for the choking element, I also enjoy choking, I recall the last time I was with my top, i was riding him, and I remember saying "hurt me please" and he knows how I feel about choking, he didn't do it hard, but enough to give me pain. I don't know why I like choking either, it's just something I like.

To me, if you are in a healthy Sm relationship, there is mutual love and respect and when you can share an intimate moment, I agree with GT, it is a beautiful thing. allowing yourself to let go and absolutely enjoy what you enjoy without someone pointing fingers at you and saying you are some sort of freak. As much as people say Sm is in the mainstream, people still judge you for it. Especially when an accidental death occurs and it's all over the media, people judge.
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Apr 6 2008, 07:02 PM) *
getting tied up, for me is an act of extreme submission-- and really, i prefer it as an isolated event. i don't care for being spanked, or flogged or anything other than, probably heavy petting and vanilla sex. it's the idea that i belong to you, i am vulnerable-- i am open. i'm usually super self-aware, super self concious

Mr. Pugs really wants to get to bed but I just got permission to stay up a little longer and spend some time writing you all this post because I have some deep feelings I really want to share.

So today Mr. Pugs tied me up again. I was on my stomach, wrists bound out to the corners of the bed and thighs bound spread apart on my knees and ass up in the air. He propped the hitachi up on a pillow so it was firmly against my clit.

First let me say that I'm very self concious like you said GT. I know that if I was in this position UNBOUND with Mr. Pug behind me jerking off on my ass I would feel so ackward and unattractive. For some reason today I felt totally comfortable in my own skin and I have to say that I think it was being tied up that allowed me to unplug from the negative self image I have. He was also whacking me with a paddle. I felt just out of my mind with pleasure and pain. The intensitiy of me pulling on the ropes, the wand on my clit and the paddle on my ass was just overwhelming. I felt beautiful and I get a little choked up thinking about how UNself concious I felt.

Afterwards he untied me. I laid there for a moment then got up to go start cleaning the kitchen. I mean we didn't have sex it was just pretty much him jerking off on me and forcing me to come with the hitachi. When I got downstairs I figured I'd make us both a sandwich. While I was moving about the kitchen I noticed how weak my legs were and I felt dizzy. I don't think I gave myself enough time to "come down". This is the first time I've ever experienced this before. For me the position I was in, being spread open to him, offered to him was very intense and I really liked it. I have to say that I think the introduction of rope to our routine really added an new and exciting level of awareness, eroticisim, I just don't know the words. (GT you are so good with words girl can you help me out here?).

Today was just very different for me and I loved every single second of it. True, it's not pumping or breath play or some of the other intense things we've talked about in here but this was a new level for me.

Oh, oh...something else. At the beginning Mr. Pug was hitting me with the paddle and damn did it hurt. However, after a while of having the hitachi, feeling him jerk off on me, feeling the ropes pulling on my wrists and thighs I didn't even feel the paddle. I know he was still hitting with the same force but it's was like I was numb to it. All I could think about was him coming on me and me coming as well. Afterwards, my ass was pink and I didn't really feel it until again later on down in the kitchen making us lunch.

Today was just great and so many different sensations and reactions on my part. I just wanted to share them.

Anyone have any suggestions on "down time" after play. I'm going to have to lay in bed a while afterwards to just come down. Here I thought I was recovered and ready to go about my business and 10 mintues later I'm shaking in the kitchen, dizzy and feeling the heat in my ass from the paddle. I mean I'm lucky I didn't get dizzy and fall down the steps or something. I guess I'm just trying to get my head around it all.

I'd just love to hear what all of you have to say.

Pugs, my top and talk about whatever during our downtime. We've talked about love, relationships, politics, the death penalty (that came up out of politics) we generally don't talk about the scene or sex. It's recovery time in order for us to get another round going.

after care is essentually time (in my view) for the top to check that the sub is ok, feedback, and that any damage, psychological, physical, emotional, what have you, is repaired. sometimes it is non verbal, petting, cuddling, etc, sometimes it is reassurance, sometimes it is physical, checking that there was no serious damage, sometimes it's verbal, re-enforcing that the things that occured in the scenes were just play, that those things were just play, or rebuilding their self esteem. sometimes when partners play for a while, that's not an issue, and it's closer to post-coital whatever, like culturehandy talking politics, othertimes it might be just giving the person's body time to recover and make sure they aren't gonna go grab powertools while pumped up on the endorphines and the high they got durring play. it's situational.

but when i top i use it for reassurance, and to get feedback, if you understand what the sub is going thru when you do certain things, then you can 'play' their instrument more effectively. and you can watch better for danger signs. the reassurance deepens the trust.

that said, for me aftercare of some sort is crucial. as i've said my first domme was abusive, and would beat me and then toss me out of her place half dressed. that aint kinky, it's obnoxious.

and how can you play with someone you don't trust? it's easy. you don't know any better. that was the thing with my first domme. i thought being a sub meant you were supposed to do anything the top wanted, and anything she did was ok. you can see how that would be a recipe for disaster. but still i get emails from guys or they start telling me they would do anything for their top. i usually come up with some really fucked up scenario i would never do, that scares the crap out of them but makes the point. a little trick i learned from my second domme who tied me up and did something similar. if someone is experienced sooner or later they come across things that you would never dream of; my second domme loved abrasion-- essentually using sandpaper to scratch and gouge skin. not fun. not the first thing you think of when you think of when you say bdsm. i love putting alcohol soaked q-tips in boys eurethras and stress holds. i know someone who loves using brass knuckles and surgical staples. there is a whole world of things you can use. so you have to call your limits. you have to learn to communicate, trust -- and consent must be gained first.

ps, do you really want me to help you say anything pugs? lol... i'm such a windbag....besides, you do just fine. wink.gif
The only time that I had aftercare it was completely silent. I was just held and petted and stroked because that was what I needed. Please make sure that you're okay next time pugs.
Oh dear, anyone who kicks you out after a sessions, half dressed, is a douchebag.

QUOTE(girltrouble @ Apr 7 2008, 02:37 AM) *
when partners play for a while, that's not an issue, and it's closer to post-coital whatever, like culturehandy talking politics, othertimes it might be just giving the person's body time to recover and make sure they aren't gonna go grab powertools while pumped up on the endorphines and the high they got durring play. it's situational.

See I think that's what Mr. Pugs and I do. We don't have that okay start, okay we are done, okay what did you think? Shit sometimes we have simple vanilla sex. He'll roll me over and get on top and it's very simple early morning, lazy afternoon, late night sex. Other times there's rope, toys, spanking and much more intensity. We don't really "discuss" it before hand. We don't plan out what we are going to do. I have a safeword if something goes wrong or I want things to stop. It's just not as structured as some sites make a "scene" to be. We've been together for almost 12 years so we both know what the other likes and if one of us wants to try something new then we talk about it first. Does this make sense?

You all know I'm a complete spanko but I don't think it's clear that I get two completely different kinds of spankings.

One is purely sexual in nature. Mr. Pugs comes at me from all angles. He likes to catch me off guard when I'm anticipating a whack and he'll pause then when I unclench he'll get me. He'll spank me to prolong orgasm. It's for fun. Yeah it hurts but usually I'm giggling or trying to dodge him. It's playful if that makes sense. This is when we use an implement like the paddle, a spatula, his belt or something like that. I never cry and sometimes he'll hold me and other times not. He kind of leaves this up to me. If I want to cuddle fine if not he's all like, "Thank you, love you, I'm going to pass out now."

The other times I get spanked are when I'm emotionally overwhelmed. Life is getting too much for me and I'm about to break. Last time this happened it was the end of last semester and I was struggling to complete my Algebra/Trig II class. I was just freaking out. I didn't want to be intimate with him because I was focused on trying to pass the class. I couldn't get anything done around the house. I was totally in my own mind. I was just going to school and coming home miserable. One day I just sort of broke down and a few tears trickled. He knows when I get like this I need some sort of release. Usually he'll physically restrain me with his arms. He'll practically lie on top of me at times. He'll usually hit me with his hand only and he hits hard. He's working to make me cry and it doesn't take much. He's just pushing me over the edge. GT maybe this is equivalent to when your Dom used to push you to using your safeword. Does this make sense? Anyways, Mr. Pugs doesn't like these sessions because he's "hurting" me but he knows this helps me a lot. Afterwards he MUST hold me, tell me everything is okay and that he loves me. I need him to be there in the moment and he always is. Afterwards I am in a state of euphoria and once I've gotten myself together I'm like a new person. I can focus again, prioritize and accomplish whatever I'm trying to accomplish.

So yesterday when we had this amazing session with the rope, Hitachi and paddle it was purely sexual. Sometimes after sex I get this surge of energy and I feel motivated. This is when I get my best cleaning done. Other times I just want to pass the fuck out with him. He always gives me 10-15 minutes of cuddle, discussion time after any kind of play. Sometimes I take him up on it and other times I get showered, dressed and move about the house doing whatever while he sleeps for a bit. So for him it's probably confusing as to whether or not I want to sleep for a bit, cuddle, talk or go grocery shopping.

This is what made yesterday so different. For him it was probably just sex with some kink like many other times. If I wanted to cuddle I would have stayed in bed with him and he would have held me. For me I felt that surge of energy and jumped out of bed, went downstairs to make lunch and it was almost 10 minutes later that I felt these new sensations of being dizzy, weak legs and sore from the paddle. The delay is what through me off. So, this taught us both that after this sort of intense play, I need to stay with him, just relax and "come down".

I must say that the introduction of the rope was a whole new level for me. I love and I'm always watching the trailers. My favorite part of their scenes is the rope work that is done, the Hitachi’s, the forced orgasms, the dildos, the flogging, spanking. I think liking this so much, watching it, fantasizing about it is what made this session with Mr. Pugs so intense. I finally got to do what they do on that site in the safety and comfort of my own bedroom, at my own pace and with the love of my life. I have never felt that endorphin high like everyone talks about. I mean it's great sex, many wonderful physical sensations, great orgasms but this was in my head.

I'm not good at sharing my fantasies with Mr. Pug. I mean he practically has to drag it out of me if he thinks I like something. I guess I'm still dealing with the whole liking BDSM doesn't make me a sick person issue. He knows I like the hogtied website but I don't think he knows specifics about what they do that turns me on. Over the last few weeks I've shared with him that I like the rope work, the Hitachi’s, the spankings...all the same time..with him. I'm always afraid that one day I'm going to tell him I like something and want to try it and he'll get freaked out and leave me. He'd tell you this is so not true and that he's willing to try anything once. It's just all in my head.

We'll I feel like I'm just blabbering on.

That is all. smile.gif

QUOTE(candycane_girl @ Apr 7 2008, 03:09 AM) *
The only time that I had aftercare it was completely silent. I was just held and petted and stroked because that was what I needed. Please make sure that you're okay next time pugs.

candycane_girl - you haven't been around here lately. somehow I just knew this post would bring you around. I remember reading about your first flogging on your blog and deeply connecting with you through your writings.


The other times I get spanked are when I'm emotionally overwhelmed. Life is getting too much for me and I'm about to break. Last time this happened it was the end of last semester and I was struggling to complete my Algebra/Trig II class. I was just freaking out. I didn't want to be intimate with him because I was focused on trying to pass the class. I couldn't get anything done around the house. I was totally in my own mind. I was just going to school and coming home miserable. One day I just sort of broke down and a few tears trickled. He knows when I get like this I need some sort of release.

LMP, this kind of reminds me of the bitch magazine article from their last issue (granted not exactly the same, but still in that 'need for release' kind of vein). It's called "Slap Happy—In a spanking-new form of relationship therapy, self-described feminists are asking for it" but unfortch i can't find it online, so i guess my post here is a little anticlimactic.

I thought of this thread when I saw this on PostSecret today:

Flip This Switch
Speaking of aftercare and douchebag dommes, I have some questions. I just registered here because I need advice from experienced BDSM players/afficionados/whatever.

I had a situation come up recently that frightened me quite a bit and I want to know if I should just dump the play partner/friend with benefits I've had for the last year.

I had, for the most part, dominated him for the past year with plenty of vanilla thrown in during that time. He is normally the dominant one and among other things has been afraid of "people" finding out that I top him. I decided very recently that I wanted to submit to him and we would do what he had been more used to doing in the past.

My housemate was going to be away for awhile so it seemed like the perfect opportunity for us to do this. I spent (too much) money on new sex toys and wine, cleaned and fixed up what would be our playroom for minimum distractions.

I was very leery of drinking and playing but our first scene was.....ok. There were some issues that would take too long to type out right now and since they aren't the real problem, I'll get back to them if needed. He came back the next night and we had a good time although he decided to change the focus of our play, without telling me. It worked out great though.

Fast forward to a few days later when his housemate was out of town. We were playing and having great fun. At one point, he told me he could feel that he was going to have to stop and go to sleep in about 45 minutes to an hour. That was fine and we continued to play. After a little while, he started having problems keeping his erection (which was really, really rare,) and I realized he was too tired to keep going and it really seemed like his interest in continuing was flagging as well. (We had had a few drinks as well.)

I told him "Let's stop, you're not even into it." I suggested going to sleep and said "C'mon, you're not even into it" a couple more times.

He told me later, after we had to discuss it that he felt I was "taunting" him. He walloped me pretty hard on the left side of my face, but didn't really hurt me and certainly didn't injure me. BUT he then put both his hands around my neck and proceeded to choke me until I was crying and literally begging him to stop.

He had told me quite some time ago that he enjoyed choking and I told him not to, that I felt it was too dangerous. (I was no where near THAT level of trust with him at that point.)

After he stopped choking me, he basically accused me of provoking him, rolled over and went to sleep instantly.

He's apologized for doing it several times and said he never meant to hurt me. I went to his apartment to break up with him and "we" decided to take a month long break from the relationship.

I have discussed this with two people so far and both advise me to dump him. One knows about the kinkier aspects of what happened and one doesn't.

I should probably mention that we do not have a monogamous relationsip. He sleeps with other women and I could sleep with other men although I don't. He also pressured and tried to coerce me into unprotected sex when we first became lovers.

Give me ALL you opinions and ask any questions you want!!!
i took the liberty of posting the pic:

thanks polly.... i love this....

but of course i have to ask:
do bustie floggers think their feminism is in conflict with the things they do with bdsm?
flip, my advise is to drop him. if you told him not to choke you-- no matter how long ago, and he violated that-- drop him. before you do something that a sub told you explicitly NOT TO, you talk to them, you renegotiate-- you check to see if it's ok, but you NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, DO SOMETHING THE SUB TOLD YOU NOT TO. you don't know if they have been abused, if there is a physical reason, you respect the wishes of the person subbing to you. that is what this all relies on. if you don't then the rest is just bullshit.

if you're asking the question, you know the answer, you just don't like the answer.

and i think you know what we'll say. you've called him a douchebag domme, talked about him coeresing, pressuring you, and you have talked to friends, who, i am guessing, have met him, and probably have a better feel for him than we would. he doesn't sound like a dom, he sounds like an abuser who uses bdsm as a pretext.

and there are people out there who use bdsm as a way to abuse their partners.

the fact of the matter is, he violated your trust. he did things that you explicitly told him NOT TO.
if there is one thing that is crucial in the thing that we do, it is trust, the second is consent. he respected neither. the whole point is finding a SAFE PLACE to explore our innerselves, our inner desires. without that trust, you don't have play, you don't have bdsm, you have ABUSE. PERIOD.

it is important that you have safe words, and feel free to use them. his being tired is a good reason to use it, but i doubt he would have stopped. if you begged him and he heard it as taunting, then neither he nor you can trust his judgement. HE can't even tell what is going on... so how can you think you can possibly be safe?

further, he blamed you. each time he blamed you. he took no responsiblity for his actions, it sounds like, till you decided not to play with him.

i say leave him, don't look back.
Flip This Switch
Thanks Girltrouble. You're right, I don't like the answer. He has been a really fun FWB for the most part. He had never done anything like this before.

I used "douchebag domme" because each of those terms were used in recent posts and I didn't want to seem like I was changing the subjects you had been posting about.

He felt I was taunting him by saying "you're not even into it, you're not even into it". The next evening, when we discussed what had happened, he told me he remembered thinking "NOT INTO IT? I'll show her." I was doing the begging while he was choking me. I actually couldn't even remember my safe words while he was choking me. We have one for slowing down and one for stopping what is going on.

So you think he's apologizing (repeatedly) and finally taking responsibility just to get me back into a situation in which he could potentially abuse me (again)?

I think I'm in shock, really. I honestly can barely even think straight right now. I had a conversations with a good friend and one with my housemate and I can't even remember half of what they said.

I apreciate any and all advice.
So you think he's apologizing (repeatedly) and finally taking responsibility just to get me back into a situation in which he could potentially abuse me (again)?

i don't think it matters.


if he can't read you enough to know when to stop, if he hasn't got the judgement to stop, and if he thinks he is somehow JUSTIFIED, in choking you-- something you told him specifically NOT to do, then you shouldn't play with him.

if he is thinking, "i'll show her" then you shouldn't be playing with him. you shouldn't have needed a safeword, with the choking, after all, you told him not to choke you in the first place. he is absolutely in the wrong.

and while you might have used the douchebag domme as a segue, the coercing, him putting pressure on you, still stands, him choking you when that was a hard limit, stands.
Flip This Switch

Thanks Girlt. You're right.

I may have to go cry or something for a while, but I'll be back.

My next question for ALL OF YOU is how did you find that special BDSM partner and relationship. I know there will be many different stories.

I have to, no, I want to find a new BDSM relationship. Do most of you start out vanilla with a partner and then start gradually "playing" or did you find him or her at BDSM events, parties, clubs etc.?

And Girltrouble, I will probably continue to be astonished, all my life, at the kindness of strangers. Thanks.
And Girltrouble, I will probably continue to be astonished, all my life, at the kindness of strangers. Thanks.
ich, chica, i had to learn the hard way. if i can keep you from having another bad experience, then i am the one who is blessed. smile.gif
Flip, I agree, this guy is really bad news. SM play is not about doing anything to your partner against their will. SM is about mutal respect for your partner.

GT has hit the nail on the head with this, again as she said, because GT speaks from experience.

How are you doing with all of this? I'd pretty concerned that he hit you and there are issues of coersion. You need to end this relationship, it's not healthy. Play is about stopping when you want to stop, if you aren't comfortable with something, then your top or bottom should NOT make you do it.

The fact that he ignored the safe word is scary. It's like he was getting into some sort of sick revenge and was so blinded by rage he didn't hear anything. Because of these anger issues, get rid of him. What were to happen if things went to far? Play should not make you fear for your life, ever. You showed your concern for him and recognized that he may be tired, you made the decision to stop and he's mad at you for this??? Not a good bottom at all. Not a good partner at all.

I know that my top and I discussed things at length prior to getting into play. We texted and e-mail and talked for hours. We still do discuss our prefereable kinks and what we like. He's open to anything, it's up to me to say what I want or what I don't want. This is what you should be doing with anyone you engage in any sort of sm play with. ever. I found the best way to feel someone out was to instigate dity talk with someone while fucking, if they were receptive to that, outside the bedroom, I'll bring up spanking or whatnot. In terms of my intense sm play, I have only even engaged in this with one person. My current top. Even then that took a long time to get into.

In terms of how I engaged with my top, him and I have known each other for 8 years. We met when I was 17 and he 26. We became friends, as I was dating one of his friends (then thigns progressed that him and I started to have an emotional affair, which turned physical, then I went through the break up from hell and the top and I remained friends). As I got older, we got more into things we liked, and discovered that we liked the same things. We always had intense sexual chemistry. we already had the trust and the chemistry so we jsut went from there. It was our strong frienship that things progressed to where they did.

Polly, I don't feel at conflict with my SM play and feminism. I feel that being in control of your sexuality is a part of being feminist. Sexual empowerment. You may appear to be giving up control as a bottom, but when you are in a healthy SM relationship, your top knows that if something makes you uncomfortable, to stop the scene.l
flip, i'm going to agree with GT and culture - and I hope you're feeling better smile.gif

I don't spend much time in here, but...

sometimes my feminism and my taste for being spanked/restrained is in conflict, sometimes it isn't. I think it depends on the relationship - if I'm there because I want to be there and I get the feeling that he respects me and my opinions, then I'm quite happy to be tied up, called a cumslut and spanked 'til I bruise, because I know that when we're done playing, I'm still his equal and he thinks that. It's also a matter, like culture said, of being in control of your sexuality, and as long as I feel I have a measure of control (albeit with the illusion of having it taken away occasionally)... well, I'm not giving anything up, am I?

and as to how I met partners... the first "proper" bdsm-boy, we met through another mutual interest, got chatting and things progressed (and although the relationship didn't work, we're still friends and I'm his girly advice queen). The current boy I met through the personals section here, a good while ago, and again, while I was looking for a bf, it wasn't explicitly a bdsm one - it's only in the last few weeks we've really discussed it. But bdsm-boy uses, and a few other places and seems to be having some luck; I think it depends on what you're looking for - something strictly play or a full-blown relationship.
Miss Deena
Safe Sane Consensual !!! This point can not be stressed enough! When/if a Dom feels like they might be pushed over into anger then the play has to be stopped. Because you should never play if you are having a hard time with your emotions. And if ground rules are broken that is just the same as trust being thrown away. Things are never a strait road even in a vanilla relationship but abuse is abuse in either. And what you describe is not play its revenge, and should be treated as such.

I don't feel that your sexual entertainment has a negative effect on your feminism. Sexual Power!! Good choice of words CH

jumping in to the discussion...

flip, i agree with the rest of the group here, abuse is abuse and putting a pretty bdsm mask on it (if you'll pardon the pun) doesn't make it anything other than abuse.

i was with a dom a couple of years ago, and he pushed waaay past my comfort levels without even knowing it and i could not use my safe words or gestures or anything. i was so far in i don't think i could have told him my own name at that point! it took a few minutes but when he realized what was going on, everything was stopped instantly. i was untied and he pulled me on his lap and just held me.

i was also with another person who said he was into bdsm but what he wanted was rape fantasy-type stuff and i so do not play that game... but he ignored what i wanted and well, let's just say it wasn't much of a game. so i have been with good doms and assholes both, and there is definitely a difference between abuse and play.

my husband and i play sometimes. he's a switch and i am definitely sub, but i do my best to top him at times, though we more frequently wind up with him topping me! there was that time tho, when he was tied to the bed and blindfolded...

as far as finding partners, i have met 1 dom (the good one) over the internet on and others, including the asshole, were friends or aquaintances before the topic ever got around to playtime.

i rarely consider whether it's "appropriate" or not for me, as a feminist, to get tied up, blindfolded and spanked. i just figure that it's what i enjoy, so why not enjoy it? i (mostly) stopped beating myself up for sexual quirks a long time ago.
Flip This Switch
Hey everybody, thanks for all the advice and input.

I know now that what he did was just completely unacceptable and I am just sad and angry. I wasn't in love with him but I did genuinely care about him a lot. I think I've been in shock. (I'm having a hard time remembering things and focusing and, um, getting out of bed these past few days.)

Any contact I have with him now is going to let him off the hook and let him think that what he did was OK on some level. (There were other issues as well, as you could tell. ESPECIALLY bugging me for unprotected sex.)

BTW I DO sometimes have a problem being a feminist and subbing. I think I'm naturally a switch anyway but it's like "Ohhhhh the man HAS to be in charge ". There's nothing WRONG with it but it just feels so "blah, blah, blah" cliche sometimes.

And as far as meeting guys goes, I'm in New York City and I've tried Craigslist a few times and DO NOT recommend it. I've now discovered that Mr. Abusive Dom is a regular on there. As far as goes, I registered and found Mr. Abusive Dom is on there too. He's done in the past as well.

I think I'm going to go to a newbie munch with TES soon. I need to just see more of what my choices are as far as meeting BDSM partners goes.

I'll definitely be around here though! Reading all your posts helps a lot.
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Apr 13 2008, 10:50 PM) *

but of course i have to ask:
do bustie floggers think their feminism is in conflict with the things they do with bdsm?

I don't in the heat of the moment but before or afterwards I sometimes do. Also, when I want to "play" and Mr. Pug's isn't in the mood I feel rejected and sometimes conflicted about what I like. This doesn't happen nearly as often as it used to. It's getting much better as time goes by and we are introducing new kinds of play (ex: rope). Most of the time I'm just happy to get through the school week. I find that the anticipation of what might go down over the weekend thrills me come Thursday and Friday. Monday - Thursday there is just no time for "us".

QUOTE(Flip This Switch @ Apr 14 2008, 12:28 AM) *
Do most of you start out vanilla with a partner and then start gradually "playing"?

Mr. Pugs and I started out vanilla. We've been together almost 12 years and we just started to spice it up. I think our journey has been pretty well documented here on bust in this thread. Sometimes I go back and reread my posts to see how far we've come. GT and the other FWF busties have been so great at helping with problems and concerns.
Miss Deena
Pugs this is a great site with instructional videos on beginning rope play.
Well, I must admit I'm pretty much just a masochist who subs as a way of getting an endorphin release. boyfriend and I are both kinky, but he's into humiliation where as I'm more of a pain junky. We've worked out a fairly decent balance of both, considering I don't get upset or offended by humiliation(which makes him crazy, but he thinks it's a bit hot).

Here's my problem...sometimes I get the giggles when he starts calling me names. Especially names that are hysterically not true. Last night he called me a "dumb slut" and slapped me.

I may be a slut, but I'm not a dummy. When we were done he was quick to say he didn't actually think I was dumb, he just got off on calling me that.

So, do you ladies have any suggestions for helping me with my naughty laughing habit?

As an addendum, I NEVER laugh if we're playing rough and I'm getting a beating.

Mr. Pugs and I do quite a bit of kink and I always get the giggles as well. I try to just be in the moment. Focus on the physical sensations and try not to think about how off the names are. I try not to think a lot during sessions. I just try to feel if that makes sense. Sometimes I just can't help it and I laugh.

Good luck...
i think pugs has it, but if i can add anything, i say incorporate the laughter. when i'd top my x humor was always a part. sometimes it's just nervous energy. but i would play and sooner or later, i'd say something even i knew was silly, and she'd giggle, and i'd say, oh, you think that's funny? and then i'd make it hurt more, then i'd crack jokes, and she'd giggle and.... on and on. at some point she'd stop giggling and the scene was stronger for it. it's a good opportunity to really learn your subs body, because you get to see what gets their attention, the strongest reaction and gets them into the scene.

but who says the bdsm has to be all "serious bidness?" i did a scene with my daddy and i domming a super heavy duty sub, who we knew can take a LOT of pain. between the two of us, we got plenty of sadism (believe me, we've got it to spare), but what made the scene was us being silly, creative, and trying to make each other laugh. during a spanking/paddling/nipple torture scene, we put a cherry tomato between his butt cheeks and told him if he clenched his ass, and broke it, we'd beat him even more. all the while we were tormenting him, we were making cherry jokes, grocery jokes, tossing salad jokes, and laughing to the point of tears. we pretty much forbid the sub to laugh and he would get punished if he did, which was another reason to cause pain. whoo hooo!

it's never a bad thing to be able to think on your feet as a dom/me.

that said, i am kind of looking at a similar problem but inverted. my daddy and i have a pretty standard daddy/girl relationship. i look to her for approval, comfort, guidance, etc. but i am feeling the need to be verbally humiliated, and my daddy is having a hard time really getting into that, since her role has been as a protector. she has a hard time putting me down, tho i want it. for me i like hearing i am a "dumb slut" not because i think it's true, (i'm not a slut or dumb) but because it seems to dissipate my inadequacies outside of play. plus, like pugs, i tend to think way, way, way to much, and hearing that is a way of turning my brainsis off. for her right then, i don't need to think, just be her fuckdoll. subbing is about pleasing my daddy, so i try to think about her. what you might try to do is suggest words that are humiliating that do work, like slut. tell him the dumb takes you out of the scene. maybe silly would be less dissonant.

what about using the giggles as part of the kink? The more you giggle, the more punishment you get?

Word GT and pugs.
Replacing violence with waterfalls? really...

anyhows, I knew that I was into kink many moons ago, didn't get really into D/s until two years ago.

Really, what is "normal" anyway. if you don't like it vanilla? If you like it any other way than missionary? Normal is what's normal behaviour for you.
I think "normal" means majority, or just powerful assumptions that the world around you is built on. When I was growing up I didn't have much choice in who surrounded me, now I can pick my friends and lovers from a huge pool of options and I can call myself normal within that setting. But if I step outside of my hand picked group of associates, I know I'm not.

I happened to be raised within a feminist community, with its own contradictions to be sure, but the pressure to fit into a particular sexual standard was immense. Among most feminists, I don't feel normal. Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Violence with waterfalls, for reals.
I know some people have questioned how being in a D/s relationship is feminist? But, to me, being involved in this, is taking control of your sexuality. How is that unfeminist? it's like some people have fallen into the same trap that feminists are fighting against. Not everyone fits into the same mold, and that includes sexuality. I like what I like, I'm not a freak, or weird, or some sort of pervert. I'm in a D/s relationship where I feel incredibly respected. There is mutual love and respect, how is this outside the norm of any other healthy relationship?

Just because I get verbally abused in the confines of this particular sexual relationship doesn't mean I'm "unhealthy". I don't accept this is my every day life or anything, I don't go up to random people and say, hey want to smack me around a little bit? people who make judgements just don't understand.

Vixen, in this thread we are all feminists and we all understand what you are going through.
"Vixen, in this thread we are all feminists and we all understand what you are going through."

Thanks CultureHandy.
word, culture.

personally i knew i was outside of the norm forever, i think i made me a bit withdrawn, shy. but having to fit into other people's ideas of who i was was suffocating to say the least.
Jumping in here....I've been thinking about purchasing a flogger. What should I look for? What do I need to know? (I'm a top, if that makes any difference)
Please be kind. I'm new to this particular world.
Miss Deena
The first question to ask is what kind of punishment are you looking to deliver? Because that will determine what type to get. The number and width of tongues determine the effect you get.
zora - i've always wanted to get one of those for mr. pugs to use on me but whenever i look them up online i get very confused and frustrated. from what i hear they are more thud like then sting. www.sub-shop has a helpful guide. you might want to check that out. good luck and let us know what you get. it might be a deciding factor in what we get as well.

yay! welcome to the world of floggers, zora! one thing you should be aware of, before you do anything-- is that you should be careful to hit only areas that have bone underneath. if looking at your sub's back, there is an "X" area that you should hit from the shoulders, and shoulder blades and diagonal lines down to the buttocks. do not EVER strike the exposed areas where the kidneys would be-- like a whip those areas when hit, can result in internal damage. also be aware that whips and floggers can wrap around the body. take that into account when using them. start slowly using that "X" strike zone. does that make sense?

personally, i LURVE being flogged! i prefer thuddy to a whip's stingy. think of it this way: a flogger is to a whip as a paddle is to a cane. floggers n paddles hit a wider area, and so the sensation is more spread out-- more thuddy. where as a whip or a cane are more directed, more sharp and the sensation is stingy. of course there are ways to make floggers or paddles stingy (think of snapping a towel), but for the most part thuddy, deep sensation that is really nice for those who aren't masochists, and a nice change of pace for those who are.

they come in a variety of materials, and i was looking for a friend of mine (a wicked, wicked sadist) who actually makes whips and floggers out of exotic materials, but she sells them only at bdsm vendor fairs. the name of her company is hilarous: "motivational tools." i might be going down to portland to play next weekend *fingers crossed* with her and her hubby with my daddy/mr.t...

pugs, if there is something about bdsm that confuses you, you might try contacting your local sex toy shop. women owned stores in particular often hold classes, or can give you info on where you can take classes.
but back to the subject!

Floggers look like a whip with a number of thick flexible tails that can count till several hundred. Floggers are usually made of leather, nylon, rubber and rope. The sensations from floggers can range just as much as the type of the flogger you have. Generally, the harder is the material and the narrower the tails are - the more "sting" sensations you are going to have.
For warm-ups and sensual plays you can choose fur floggers which are mainly more like a visual appeal than an impact toy.
Rope floggers are easy to DIY, and are good for beginners - they are quite sensuous and soft.
Elk skin floggers give mild feelings and are also quite safe for softer games. The harder sensations are obtained with rubber and latigo leather floggers - they can leave bruises, welts and reddening.

they usually come in 3 types:light, medium, heavy. make sure to have a long warm up before using heavy floggers. more info here: floggers n whips and more tips

or this by a local domme who also has a great blog:
Let's Buy a Flogger
by Mistress Matisse

I was in Toys in Babeland recently and overheard a wide-eyed het couple talking as they hovered near the display of whips and cuffs.
The woman ducked her head and laughed nervously. "Let's buy a flogger!" she said. "Um, okay, that would be cool," her partner replied. They stared at the display. "Which one should we get?" I thought about offering them my opinion, but decided to leave them in the capable hands of the TIB staff. However, if you shop in places where the help isn't so helpful, here's a quick guide to selecting and using your first flogger.

First, the length: Choose a flogger with tails no longer than 18 inches, because shorter floggers are easier to aim accurately. My arm is 17 inches from fingertip to elbow, and that's how I check lengths when I'm toy shopping.

Next, look for a flogger that has supple, velvety leather tails that are at least a half-inch wide. Suede tails are good, or a soft tanned leather like deerskin. The width and the weight of soft leather tails mean that when you swing the flogger, they move through the air more slowly than thinner, lighter tails, such as ones made from hard, skinny cords or rubber. Using this kind of flogger on someone's flesh produces a deep, warm, spread-out sensation. BDSM people call this sensation "thumpy" or "thuddy," and it's the kind of stimulation that many people find almost massagelike and easy to eroticize.

Flogging Tips: Never hit someone on the back of the neck or across the kidneys, and avoid the spine. It's generally safe to flog someone on the asscheeks, the area over the shoulder blades, and the middle back, and on the front or the back of the thighs. You can lightly flog someone's chest/ breasts (unless they have implants) and genitals.

Always begin slowly and gradually increase intensity. Establish "slow down" and "stop now" safe words with your partner. Nervous about your aim? Start out by holding the whip handle in one hand and "choking up" on the tails with the other, leaving only the last six inches of tails free to flog with. As you gain skill, decrease the choke bit by bit.

Flogging may leave red marks or bruises, depending on how hard you hit and how delicate the recipient's skin is. This can be a charming next-day reminder of a kinky evening--but inconvenient if you've scheduled a massage appointment.

Good book to read: Flogging, by Joseph W. Bean.

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