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Stargazer –

Oh, yes I’ve masturbated in front of him before and we have lots of toys. After he flipped out about his arm being tired he went to get the vibrator out of the end table to use on me but I was too pissed at that point. I think since we’ve defined our positions as sub and dom I can honestly say that I feel he is a little more selfish in bed. Sometimes I think he is trying to get back at me for the years that I used sex as a weapon against him. I’m a firm believer of two wrongs don’t make a right so I don’t think he should be taking his past aggressions out on me. I have noticed recently that when I’m upset with him if I just let it go for a while and not flip out immediately like I used to that it always turns out great. He’ll apologize and admit that he made a mistake a lot faster then if I yell at him that he hurt me.

Gotta go I’ve got class!

hi maddy if you are lurking. this post is for you. i really do think the world of you.-- after we made nice, (i hope she doesn't mind me posting this bit) she said she was going to do some studies on bdsm and gender studies, which i think i pretty admirable. a lot of people gave her grief (myself most of all), i think-- i know-- she wants to understand. these things. i was skating home thinking of a couple of bdsm & tranny books to recommend, when a paragraph from one of my favorite transwriters came into my head. this is from "sex changes" by pat califia. one of the best books on the history of transgenderism. it's the book that changed me from a lamb to a lion. but this passage explains how i feel about bdsm:

"What if we all helped each other to manifest our most beautiful, sexy, intellegent, creative, and adventurous inner selves, instead of cooperating to suppress them?"

that's bdsm at it's best-- two people learning to trust each other with their deepest secrets and desires and showing each other those desires are ok. it's encouraging each other at our roots-- where we have our deepest defenses. where we are at our most defenseless. as hard as it was for me to come out to the first girlfriend i confided in, about my (then) crossdressing, it was just as hard for a girlfriend later to confess she loved being choked, or spanked. or another girlfriend who loved having her feet worshiped. these things-- being kinky-- carry a tremendous amount of shame. you'd think that the person you were closest to would be the easiest to tell, but the opposite is true. they are the hardest person to tell about something so deep. telling someone and have them accept, and even better not judge you harshly for those desires is liberating. have you ever felt unloveable? i did. i thought my transexuality made me a freak, and repellant to anyone and everyone. but what if someone told you they loved who you were, not inspite of whatever it is you think makes you unloveable, but they loved you because of your strength to get thru things they couldn't imagine. what if they told you, that made them admire you? made them proud of you? when my girlfriend told me those things, it literally rocked and shocked my world. it's that kind of nourishing of the soul but that builds a deep trust. and that, is what i love about bdsm. it was accepting and loving each other, warts, kinks and all. even for a short brief scene it is unconditional love. something i think all human beings need. i hope this makes sense.

but everybody brings their own thing to it, to find their own reasons to use it for what they need. for me it is trust. for my ex, an ex addict, it is endorphine release, and helping others find that release. her ex does it for spiritual ephoria and communion.

another reason, for me, and a friend of mine is to be in touch with our bodies. my friend was sexually abused as a teen, and, like me, a bit removed or disassociated from her body. for me, it is a symptom of being transgendered. one that has become a bit lessened by transitioning. but a good domina can put me so firmly in my body with a spanking, a flogging, a caress, ropes tied around wrists or-- even a few words. i can't speak for my friend when it comes to being her feeling "in her body" but for me to be in my body is something terribly precious. it's a wonderful, beautiful gift.

now the price for that gift is that i trust. something i don't do lightly. something i am quick to revoke. but i have learned that if i find that person that follows my rules, and respects my pace, and understands being safe, sane and consentual, then that gift is so very worth it.

so that's my little novel about why bdsm is important to me. i think we can discuss it here, if you want, or you can pm me, if that is easier or safer for you. i make this offer out of my deep and growing respect for you.

i also invite other people in the thread to write about why bdsm is important to them.

I agree GT, it takes a lot of love and trust to open up about your sexuality to someone. I mean, besides you guys and a small handful of past partners, no one knows this side of me!

I think D/s is important to me because I want to be the best person I can be, and I feel like I need a partner's help in that. I'm happiest when I'm kind and sweet and loving. When I love a partner I want to worship him. Non-dominant men tend to not want to be worshiped, it makes them uncomfortable. When I'm with these guys I feel stiffled, I can't make love the way I want to.

Along with that, I hate when when I'm bad. I despise myself. And when I say "bad" I mean grumpy, mouthy, mean, passive aggressive.... I want a man to STOP these traits in me. My mother was/is a very bratty partner to my dad. Down right mean and domineering, borderline verbally abusive. I hated that my dad allowed this. When I was young I would want to scream at him to tell her to shut the hell up. He never did. He always hung his head and took it. I don't want a relationship like that. Naturally, by witness of my parents I've fallen into habits of acting like my mom sometimes. Relationships I've had where my partner just sulks and stonewalls me when I'm bad, were the worst ones. I want to be stood up to, put in place by someone who is stronger than I.

If I could live out any romance movie it would be "It Happened One Night". Theres no bondage or spanking in it, but its an example of a true D/s relationship if I'm concerned. Shes a spoiled brat who thinks shes tough, hes a cocky scondrel who thinks hes only out for himself. I love the scene where they are sleeping in the hay, and she tells him to buzz off and then when he does, she freaks out. He breaks her of her rude and naive headstrongness and she brings out in him the desire to be protective and responsibly in charge. *Sigh* Thats just lovely and what its all about as far as I'm concerned.

As far as being spanked, wrists tied up, no touch torture and being called a slut? It just feels soooo good! Gah, thats all I can say about that!
Greenbean said:

“Along with that, I hate when I'm bad. I despise myself. And when I say "bad" I mean grumpy, mouthy, mean, passive aggressive.... I want a man to STOP these traits in me. My mother was/is a very bratty partner to my dad. Down right mean and domineering, borderline verbally abusive. I hated that my dad allowed this. When I was young I would want to scream at him to tell her to shut the hell up. He never did. He always hung his head and took it. I don't want a relationship like that. Naturally, by witness of my parents I've fallen into habits of acting like my mom sometimes. Relationships I've had where my partner just sulks and stonewalls me when I'm bad, were the worst ones. I want to be stood up to, put in place by someone who is stronger than I.”

Greenbean, I too hate these traits about myself. In Gone with the Wind. After Scarlet’s second husband is killed she is crying and drinking in his bedroom avoiding his picture. Rhett comes upstairs to visit her (and propose). She starts to sob again and Rhett asks her what is the matter. She says she’s afraid of going to hell. She says she always wanted to be like her mother, calm and kind. She said she’s glad her mother was dead so she couldn’t see how she turned out. This is how I feel about myself. I’m a fireball. I’m always ready to explode. My friends say they admire this about me but I think they hate it just as much as I do. They think I’m always the one to start some shit. Mr. Pug knows this about me and said he understood why I wanted him to spank these traits out of me. We were at a friend’s house one night and someone said something I would normally full out loudly disagree with. When I held back my friends were shocked. They really noticed right away. My one guy friend said, “Where is the Sheena we all like so much?” Mr. Pug said she was gone and the new and improved Sheena is here now. This sparked a major conversation about our new lifestyle. My one girlfriend was very open to the idea. She said it made her feel good inside to know that Mr. Pug would assert his authority in order to make me feel better about the kind of person I am. I think it made her horny too. My guy friend grilled me about how I’m not being myself and that he admired the spitfire that I use to be. Mr. Pug put his hand on mine and smiled at me, reassuring me that our lifestyle is our choice and I don’t have to worry about what my other friend thought. When we got in the car to go home he told me how proud he was that I was cool and polite about the situation. He gave me the best orgasm that night and the next day he stayed home from his job to stay in bed with me and cuddle.

My parents were similar to yours Greenbean. Except, that when my mother would fire at my dad my dad would fire back. They had the most verbally abusive relationship that I’ve ever seen in my lifetime. I can’t say I would always want my mom to shut up. I just wanted them not to fight like they were. My mom did seem very high strung a lot of the time. It seemed that no matter what my Dad did he just couldn’t make her happy. He had a short temper as well. So very small things blew up all the time. Things got physically abusive a few times as well. I knew I didn’t want this kind of relationship. At one point in time, Mr. Pug and I were headed down that road. I can honestly admit that had we ended up like my parents I think it would have been the majority my fault. My attitude is astounding at times. I’m downright mean and nasty. If I’m hurt I usually know the nastiest thing to say to really get Mr. Pug deep. I haven’t felt like I’ve wanted to do that since the switch. I love being calm and kind now. It makes me feel warm inside and more feminine.

As far as spanking and pain. For me it’s just refreshing. It brings about tears that normally just wouldn’t come out on their own cause they’re too stubborn. Who better to relinquish this to then the man I love above all others. When Mr. Pug spanks me it’s a time for connection. For him to ask me what I want from myself and for me to accept his determination and authority to bring it out of me. It’s also very sexual and primal in nature. I’m exposed physically, emotionally and mentally. I can’t hide anything about myself behind my former loud obnoxious attitude. I put it all out there for him. We love it. As GT said it is all about trust. I trust that by submitting to him, baring my heart and soul, he will take it and cherish it to the end of time.
A story for all of you! Not much sex but tons of submission. favorite.

Sophie Collared
From the novel Sophie & Maureen
By Lizbeth Dusseau
Copyrighted © 1999

It was nearly a week before Sophie returned to the studio. She wasn’t sure she actually agreed to do another photo shoot, but when her photographer, Martin, called her on Thursday to confirm a session for the following day, he assumed she’d come. She knew she’d be there.

Friday it was another matter.

“How would you feel in a collar, Sophie?" the question whipped through her mind like the tendrils of a chilly wind through a desert canyon. She felt empty and deserted with this man—as though she were as vacant as a cloudless sky.

His name was Jon Rush—the man in the charcoal one-of-a-kind suit—blue eyes, jet-black hair and rich, determined voice.

"I’ve never worn a collar," she replied.

Starting the first session with this unexpected question, he followed with a tangible demonstration. A black, silver-studded leather strip lay across his palm as though it were a precious find. Martin was already clicking pictures while she stood shivering on the empty hardwood floor waiting for directions. Though a foggy San Francisco afternoon, the window in the studio was left wide open to deliberately chill the air. Her bare arms shuddered inside the silver slip dress they’d given her to wear, raising a thousand goosebumps on the surface of her skin. She would hug herself if she were free to; instead, she tried remaining poised, tried breathing deeply, letting her anxiety fall away. ‘I’ve had tougher assignments," she kept telling herself, but she couldn’t remember when.

As the collar closed around her neck, the cold dropped down her body, through her crotch and to her toes. Her knees knocked together so much she thought they’d clatter.

"Easy Sophie, these are just pictures. Nothing more. You’re a professional. Remember?" He was almost smiling.

She almost smiled back, just a half smile.

"No need to be nervous."

Easy for him to say, she thought.

"I’ve never worn a collar," she repeated herself.

"But perhaps you’ve wanted to."

"I’ve never thought about it."

"Somewhere you have, I’m sure," he smiled knowingly and backed away.

The leather clutched her throat. If she should panic she would choke. But it wasn’t that tight and this was a senseless fear. Martin was there, broad daylight, the window open. Her new friend, Jon Rush, was no madman. In fact, he was much more relaxed than he’d been the week before. No suit today, but a pair of casual gray slacks and a draping lavender shirt. His hands were warm and should have been comforting.

"Let’s put you on your knees," he said.

This was so much like her weird audition the week before except that the camera was on, and Martin was capturing all her frail and frightened expressions. She was unconscious of how she looked, but it didn’t matter to Jon Rush or Martin Scoffield that her poise had fled minutes ago and any resolve she had to maintain a professional aplomb had vanished the minute her eyes rested on the Jon’s placid face.

When she arrived at the studio, Martin had directed her to the dressing room behind the Japanese screen; to the silver slip dress and matching high-heeled silver sandals that were hanging there. The fabric felt as soft as silk sliding over her naked flesh. It clung because her body had already begun to dampen with perspiration. She wiggled her hips so the short skirt would drop over her thighs. Looking down, she could see her nipples poking through the fabric, tight perky bullets of silver.

"Very nice, Sophie." Jon was sitting in the director’s chair as she knelt before him, bowing her head. Without being told, her hands were clasped behind her as she rested on the tight paunch of her ass cheeks. "Now come closer," he said, making her wiggle her way inside the narrow place between his parted thighs.

Reaching out to her, he stroked the side of the collar, fingering the metal and leather with his thumb.

"Raise your head," he directed her and she stared into his eyes. She gazed at him with parted lips and wide wet eyes, unaware that she was trembling, her entire body a sensuous mass of trepidation. He inspected her carefully, making decisions as he went along.

This shoot seemed more like a movie, but Martin was snapping stills somewhere outside her line of vision. A conscious part of her brain registered the sound, while the rest focused totally on the astounding clarity of Jon’s blue eyes.

"You need this tighter," he said. Fiddling with the buckle, he pulled the leather strap, constricting her throat.

"Relax, Sophie," he ordered kindly. "The pressure will ease in a second."

Once pulling his hands from her neck, he pinched the collar with two fingers and wiggled it, Sophie gulping back her fear, finally feeling more at ease with the leather loosening slightly—enough for her to breathe more easily. The collar felt twice as tight as it had been, and more alarming.

"Tell me how that feels?"

"Confining," she said.

"Good, very good." He smiled, obviously pleased by her response. "Now, lower your eyes and stay as you are."

Jon was swiftly off his chair, moving purposefully to the other side of the room while Sophie waited. Her knees ached and her back seemed unduly tense. She tried to relax but could do nothing but tremble shakily. When from the corner of her eye she saw him pluck a bamboo cane from Martin’s desk, she quickly looked away, afraid of what that cane implied.

"That won’t do," Jon Rush observed, "sit back on your ankles." Settling her ass on her heels took the pressure off her body and allowed her back to stretch. Yet, the position left her pussy almost exposed, and when she tried to pull her knees together, Jon objected. "No, leave them wide. In fact, I’d like them wider still."

Her crotch was naked as she assumed he’d want it. With her legs spread the short dress pulled up tighter and the tuft of blonde hair between her thighs appeared as a tiny cloud of cotton in the empty hollow.

Pulling away his chair, Jon circled her diminutive body, stalking it from high above. She saw the picture of herself, as though she were floating out-of-body above the scene: she a small form of silver kneeling on the hardwood floor, while an imperious virtuoso with a thin sleek cane poised in his fist paced unhurriedly around her, occasionally poking her back, her ass, her naked thigh. When he was in front of her the cane came to rest flat against her cheek.

"Look at me," he said.

She peered up yearningly, her eyes blanched and frail.

She watched as Jon’s face broke into a dazzling grin—if only she could duplicate that mirth with her own expression, but she held her pose like a frozen statue. Even her mind was going numb.

"Ah! She’s brilliant, Martin!" the man exclaimed before he backed away. "You have enough to get started?" Jon continued with the photographer, ignoring his subject. Sophie’s mind swept back inside her body, feeling the whole of it suddenly ached.

"I should have some proofs for you tomorrow morning," he said.

"They’ll be outstanding. Let’s book her for the afternoons next week. Does this time of day suit you?" he asked—not Sophie but Martin; she seemed extraneous.

"Perfectly," the photographer answered.

"Good." He strode to the window, looking happily down on the city then returned to the center of the hardwood floor where his model waited. The cane remained in his hand, now almost lovingly stroking her back. "I think the natural fear in her face will translate, don’t you?"

"All of Sophie’s emotions seem to spill into my images," Martin said, almost proudly. "Which sometimes makes her difficult to photograph. Have to keep her mute."

"Ms. Russo," Jon patted her with the cane as if telling her to stand, which she did an instant later; though she found it awkward getting gracefully to her feet in clumsy high-heels, her legs now almost paralyzed.

"I’m sorry I’m a little shaky."

"You’ll be fine," he was quite sure of himself. "We’ll see you here Monday afternoon about four-thirty."

She nodded, her voice too halting to be trusted now.

"Yes, yes, that would be fine. Now, go get dressed." He waved toward the Japanese screen, and she tottered that way barely getting there before she collapsed. Dropping to the frayed couch in the dressing area, she took a deep breath while listening to the mumbled conversation between Martin and Jon Rush.

Only after she heard the sound of the front latch closing did Sophie venture from the dressing room. She hadn’t bothered to put on her clothes, and she left the silver dress in a wad on the tattered couch. Reaching Martin’s back, her hand massaged his ass, until he stood up straight and turned around to see her naked and luring him away from his cameras.

"They can wait, can’t they?"

He put his palm to the side of her face, cupping her neck in his hand, drawing her, leather and all, deeper inside his embrace.

"You want me to take this off?" he asked while admiring the look of the collar on her neck.

"No, fuck me now with it on," she said. She pulled him with her to the dressing room behind the screen, where she tore at his clothes. When his shirt came free, she discarded it on the floor. His pants, unzipped and stripped from his hips, turned into a tangle at his ankles, though Sophie hardly cared.

"Hey, my darling, slow it down," he gently admonished her.

"I can’t. I’m too hot. Besides you’re as hot as I am." She tugged his penis, which appeared erect as a British soldier standing at attention; the wide shaft glistened with precum. She lathered the surface as she jacked it in her palm. "In my mouth," she purred, as her languid body fell back against the couch. Sophie opened like the petals of a flower in full bloom, while Martin straddled her leather-clad neck planting a knee on either side and pressed his cock inside her mouth. Her throat opened, her head coming off the flat of the couch drawing him downward inside her greedily. She worked him hard her with lips and tongue while her lower body gathered steam and her pussy moistened.

When she pushed him out of her mouth, he slid to her hips and straddling those, thrust his cock head into her cunt, and then drove it to the end of her vagina as if he were knocking down the door to her womb.

"Fuck me hard," she screamed while beating her fists into his back. Her ass danced off the prickly burgundy—a scratchy old fabric that would leave her skin with a rug-burn when they were done. "Damn it more!" It wasn’t enough. Nothing was—not if they fucked for hours or days, or even a week. Nothing could possibly take away the gritty hard side of this passion.

Enough was enough, when Martin shot his thick cream at the base of her pussy and he triggering her orgasm. She thrashed beneath him clutching the spasming prick, drawing it down deeper, as though she were drawing him into a hiding place, sharing her darkest secret. Still, it wasn’t enough.
Grumble, gumble, bot.
BDSM is important to me because it's sexy. And because it is a vital component in my sex fantasy life. I have zero interest in BDSM IRL. That might make me a freak, but who doesn't like a freak, right?

I thought you all should know about Lies ("Gojitmal"), a very hot film with a BDSM theme. Korean, breaks a lot of taboos (it's illegal here in Korea), filmed in 1999. It'll shock you, but you'll love every trangressive minute of it.
tommy, if you're a freak, i am too. i like bdsm "in the bedroom" - in terms of sex. it gives me permission to do anything and to have anything done to me. because it is crossing so many other boundries, it gives me the freedom to agree to having my sexual fantasies played out.

i'm not like that so much in real life. i don't like to be submissive, and i'm not. i wouldn't want to be, and i would never be where i am in terms of my career or where i live if i were.

it has not been easy for me to find someone who can dominate me. that is part of the turn on, as well. and to find someone who can dominate me, and who will let me dominate them as well, as part of the sex play, is an amazing and wonderful thing. very powerful.

i don't like boxes very much. it is too easy to categorize and judge people by doing that. breaking stereotypes is part of what excites me about bdsm sex play.

frankly, i'm baffled by tommy's post. bdsm is sexy, but he has no intrest irl? huh?

i think a lot of people feel like that, they've tried the costumes, and the trappings and tropes of bdsm and find them silly, or they couldn't get into it.

i understand that. the first time i tried bdsm, i thought much the same. what changed all of that was a girlfriend who loved rough sex....and to be spanked....and choked... things that conflicted with my ideas of feminism, but here she was, as feminist as they came. she's the type who, when working as a director or producer's assistant on a film-- which is more a logistics/phone job, would join in with the grips, toting huge cables, setting up the dollys and dolly tracks. she wanted to be the girl who could do anything a boy could physically, behind a desk, or any other way....outside the bedroom, not at all sub. but....she liked to be choked. and i loved making her happy.

so... we explored, and we figured out, we may not wear leather outfits, or slick vinyl boots or masks, corsets etc, but what we were doing-- the roll playing, the top/bottom dynamics, the playing with sensation-- all those things were elements of bdsm. we also discovered that BDSM had a lot to teach us, about our desires, about our bodies-- there were all these types of play that we had never even dreamed of that people had explored and amassed knowledge about. shock of shocks! bdsm was about deeper forms of knowledge! it could be about more than sexuality, but spirituality, or psychology, or self-knowledge. we discovered all the things we thought were bdsm were just a visual short hand that in the wider culture meant simply "danger" or "evil" it's the same reason the good guy wears white in westerns. it's visual symbolism that has nothing to do with the underlying idea-- like the cowboy himself. do you need to have a cowboy hat, spurs and chaps to be a cowboy? no, they are some things that give us a visual cue of who a person is. like wise, bdsm needn't require whips and chains. it can be a whisper in someone's ear. and honestly, that is my favorite kind of bdsm. the kind that is less about the showy business, and more about the quickening of a pulse, or the gasp from a light touch, or a word with deeper meaning.

and tes, i agree with everything you said, and i'm the same way. i've had a few dominas, but the problem for me is they are too stuck on being dom and only that. that doesn't work for me. if i explore say japanese rope bondage, i might not like it if i'm submissive, but i might love it if i'm the domme. or vise versa, or i might like or hate it on both ends. you never know. so i prefer someone who is what i call an "organic switch". often when you play rules need to be established before hand, which is fine, but an organic switch is someone who has the improvisational range to feel and energy switch when we're playing and domme or sub accordingly. i like that suprize. i can't color inside the lines, either, so there you go.
I think it is probably hard to find a sub or dom that compliments one specific person but to then want a sub or dom that will switch is probably even harder.
Ok, I'm not into girls, but chicks in wet blindfolds are hot.

BTW, this is the photographer who is being sued by suicide girls for using Apnea (apparenlty breaches a bullshit clause in SG's contract)
That picture is fucking hot.
lol, no it's fucking serious...(sorry i couldn't resist)
QUOTE(girltrouble @ Feb 24 2007, 10:02 AM) *

like wise, bdsm needn't require whips and chains. it can be a whisper in someone's ear. and honestly, that is my favorite kind of bdsm. the kind that is less about the showy business, and more about the quickening of a pulse, or the gasp from a light touch, or a word with deeper meaning.

i couldn't agree with you more GT. the more reading and introspection i do about BDSM, the less it becomes about the visuals of stereotypical sex. you know the hangups of dressing the part. it becomes more organic and simpler. i just started reading the chronicles of sleeping beauty written by anne rice. i'm reading the first book, "the claiming of sleeping beauty." in fact, i only have a few pages left to read. but, the parts that have really gotten to me are the words exchanged between the master/mistress to the slaves. the teasing and withholding of pleasure.

i wonder if tommynomad is stuck on the visuals of BDSM. i hope he comes back to further explain. we seem to get men who peak their heads in here and then check out. dry.gif

tes, i agree with you. flexibility to think outside the box is important!

GT, are gonna use that name when you post in here or use your other name on occasion. talk about organic switch!! laugh.gif
i am so excited. so i got this commision for a painting from this kinky couple (she makes custom whips-- or as she calls them, 'motivational tools'-- for a living). it's actually cool, cos the boy, s, has this crush on me, and the woman, p, wants me to paint a very dominant t-girl to give to him as a present-- he's in love with two of my paintings: one that is nfs, the other was a present to my ex, and is nfs. since i know he has this thing for me, i suggested that as part of the painting that we do some playing first, he gets blind folded, she and i have our fun, then take off the blindfold and present the painting to him.

today i was having lunch with my ex talking about this, and i said that p said that s isn't a masochist. without missing a beat, she retorted, "yeah. that's why p turned s' dick into a pincushion." and rolled her eyes. which i thought was hilarious.

the fact of the matter is that they've both done tons of blood, needle-- "edge play" the most extreme stuff. like g, my super sub masochist friend (who i think told s about the times i've topped him). i think it's kind of the same thing with s and g. they don't really think of themselves that way, because their motivation isn't pain, but rather to please the person they are serving. which, i think is so hot-- if they are serving an honorable domme. and p is pretty awesome. she lives in a different state, but she's one of those heavy hitters that i really admire. they just know their shit, and these two want to play with me! (yay!) i am so flattered. and they're lifestyle too. they live it 24/7, which is really difficult. but i am so looking forward to playing with him. i haven't the foggiest what i'll do, but i love playing with people who have so much experience. it's such an opportunity to learn. i just had to share.

You know each his own and I'm not going to post my issue with someone else's choice in lifestyle. If that guy does to his wife what he wrote in his article and it works for them then more power to them.

I do what I want and don't want to be criticized so I can't do it to others when I don't agree with their choices.

Sorry please just ignore all this. I’m going through some personal issues and posting when I shouldn’t.

Goodnight everyone.
What is your issue to the article?
isn't the whole point to discus these things? i wish you would repost the link.
pugs, if it is related to the tih stuff you and mr. pugs have been inorporating into your relationship, then i hope you would discuss it. i read it. i just want to know what in the article stirred such a strong reaction.

if i remember correctly, it dealt with the issue of fairness in tih/DD relationships. you can visit the website to read about it. it is on the tih website.

I felt like it was saying that:

1. A couple is having an argument to which they are both 50% responsible for
2. If the man feels like the women is getting out of hand (regardless of her reasons) he is allowed to tell the woman she doesn't really want to talk to him that way
3. They are supposed to hug
4. Then they restart the discussion with "love and respect".
5. If she doesn't heed his warning he is allowed to spank her.

My whole point is what if the man is the hot head and is stubborn like my man and doesn't want to admit he's just as much to blame then according to this jackass he can just spank her until she agrees with him. This to me is bullshit. But you can take from it what you want. I posted a response to the dude but the website owner edited my post so it doesn't really say what I said.

Is the Idea of Fairness Causing Trouble in Your Relationship

Scroll to the top the read the original article.
LMP - i read the article, and even though i'mnot in a tih relationship, i have been in relationships where the guy was really controlling and the article rubbed me the wrong way, because it does seem to give the guy leeway to be a jerk then force the woman to agree with him, or at least acquiese, which ultimately causes resentment because the guy is not accepting or acknowledging the woman's issue/concerns/feelings.
Hi Pugs,
Sorry I don't/didn't have time to read the article cuz I have a whole slew of deadlines right now...
but I would just like to say that there are various degrees of D/s and tih, and don't ever feel like you should go in a direction with it that compromises your beliefs and voice.

I don't believe this stuff warrants men to be jerks,..quite the contrary. I think a good, dominant man is one who is in control of his emotions/picks his battles. The main reason I want a dominant man is because *I* am not very good at this myself, so I need him to be more level-headed for the both of us. I certainly don't want a man who thinks "I'm the man so I'm always right blah blah blah"

Have you read this?

Not exactly related to tih, I know, but I read it after a major break-up and it really opened my eyes to everything that was wrong in my relationship. It has great advice on how to argue.
my problem is that there isn't an opt out clause. perhaps the woman doesn't want one, but i am a big believer in safe words if the relationship isn't one where communication isn't the strong suit of the people involved, or if they aren't experienced.

pugs, i think you are right, there is, i think an assumption that the man isn't a jerk, and i don't know that you can assume that. 'bean is right that a good dom/me is in control of his emotions, (and her 1st paragraph is perfectly put.) but they also need to be aware of what they are doing. any serious play can do serious injury-- even simple flogger play. so an incontrol dom with a flogger can strike you just below your ribs and really fuck you up, so it is very important that he honestly has your best interest at heart and is not careless about these things. i just don't believe you can ever assume these things. *shrugs* but i am pro'ly over cautious. but it was not being that way that got me in trouble.

as i said, i am rather hair trigger with these things. i don't care for know-it-all dom/mes, ones that can't admit that they are wrong, or think they are always right. if i get a whiff of that, i'm out. 1 bad domme, and a good domme proving a point have ingrained it in me.
from a technical standpoint, it was a poorly written article. very confusing to follow. poor structure. it didn't have a point. or, maybe i just didn't agree with it. that's probably it. then again, it seems like an amateur was writing it. as GT said, very dangerous to not have some amount of safety for both partners.
The TiH website is made up of one psychologist named Sarah and a bunch of women and men in TiH relationships. ANYONE can post an article. Sarah reads them, edits them and then posts what she wants to post. This is irritating to me because she censors what others say. You really aren’t able to post your true feelings (sarcasm, irritation, frustration) about an article because she’ll edit it. I can understand editing out vulgarity but she’s just ridiculous. Plus, these others who post are just regular old people in everyday life. I personally think that those starting a TiH relationship need more structure; proven techniques not just a bunch of stuff that “works for some people”. They always talk about the first year of TiH is hell on the couple. That’s because they have no idea what the fuck they are doing. They are just trying to settle into something that works for them; unlike BDSM where you can go online and find methods of structuring a scene or even a 24/7 relationship (starting, safewords, coming down afterwards, etc). Again, Mr. Pug and I are finding that it’s very unstructured. We do like the spanking component. I do like his dominance in the bedroom and sometimes in other aspects as well. However, I am very conflicted with I guess the same thing GT is upset about. I feel like they are saying that Mr. Pug is allowed to punish me whether I think I deserve it or not. I’m fair. If I came home and bit your head off for no reason and I need to be centered and a spanking will help with that then fine spank away. I don’t think this is any different from sex really in my eyes. Sometimes I’m miserable and a good pounding will make me feel better. We just added spanking into the mix, which in my opinion is just like adding a little pain into your sex life. However, if he does something fucked up I’m not going to let him touch me with a ten-foot pole. He needs to apologize to me and mean it. He doesn’t get to say, “Let’s go upstairs cause you need a spanking” or “I’m horny so bend over.” WTF.

Sarah the psychologist from the TiH website recommended this book to me and I’m reading it right now. I have to say that it’s a great book and I would know cause I’ve read A LOT of relationship self help guides. This one takes an entirely different approach. As much as I feel guilty saying this, it takes sort of a “How to Train Your Dog / How to Train Your Guy” type of approach. It’s much more action based then “Let’s talk about our feelings”. Mr. Pug has sat down and read some of my other relationship books but I don’t want him to read this one and I expressed that to him. I think it would make him angry to see me reading something that is telling me to basically train him like I would train my dog. Rewarding good behavior with praise and things he likes, not freaking out when he has an accident, only disciplining him when he’s caught in the act, etc. I’ve started to introduce some of the techniques she suggests in her book and I’ve noticed a huge difference. He’s noticed them as well and actually pointed out about five things last night when we sat down to eat dinner.

I think I’m going to stop reading the TiH website. It seems to make me mad a lot. I’m going to take from it what I have and say goodbye. I think it helped with our sex life which was a task all it’s own but that’s all I’m going to really get out of it.

Well, I have class so I have to be going.

Greenbean – I’m going to check out that book as well. Thanks for recommending it.
finding what works for you is what is best, i agree.

and as i perpetually say on here research, communication, and respect (and ssc) is paramount in this sort of play. if your just incorperating elements, scene-ing or 24/7 lifestyle.
yeah, I got frustrated with the editing (and poor editing) of the tih site as well. Pugs, I'm glad you were able to take what you did from it without trying to force yourself into a role that isnt for you. *I* certainly don't think I'd ever be a "surrendered wife" type. I was initially attracted to the site for finding I'm not alone in wanting a dominant man (actually, i think I found it on a drunken night of googling "spanking"). I too have not read the site for awhile,..but I'm not in a relationship right now so I guess I don't have anything to work on. Next time I'm in a relationship I'll go back and pick up some tips, but I'm sure I'll reject a lot of it. I also have to reread that 7 Principles book cuz its brilliant (I tore off the cover tho cuz I'm embarrassed to be seen reading it rolleyes.gif )
/delurks I'm finding this TiH stuff fascinating, since it is a more psychological style. Have to catch up now!
Yipe. Agreeing that the editing detracts from the site, as well as some of the extremist ideas. I think girltrouble is right; one's own vision of one's personal bdsm needs are constantly shifting. I think just doing what feels nice is best, honestly.
Greenbean, I have to say I was attracted to the site too because it depicted dominance as a positive thing. I forgot what I googled, but I'm sure it was late and when I was not around my boyfriend. Which is fairly frequently, unfortunately.
However, the more I ruminated on this the more I found I didn't quite agree with it on numerous levels. I tend to "top from the bottom" unless put completely submission. The whole kittenish, sub-y kind of domina who can easily become a switch. You know what I mean, right?? I feel like I wouldn't be able to enjoy the kaleidoscope of emotions and sensations if I shut myself up into a little box like that, you know? And that's also very limiting to one's partner. It's so rewarding, giving your partner the freedom to express themselves too. Pfft. I don't think I agree with it.
Hello from a long-time lurker (and someone with a rather long-time curiosity about/interest in being submissive in bed). I wasn't sure if I wanted to post this in "portions" or here. I decided y'all would have more of an appreciation for it :

The guy I've been involved with for the last 6 months or so has this dominant side that's been surfacing more and more--and I love it! The first time we ever made out, I remember him running his fingers over my throat with just the slightest bit of pressure, just a suggestion of something perhaps to come. A few weeks later on, when we were kissing he'd lightly cover my mouth or my eyes with his hand, or pull my hair. And when I told him I liked that, he'd just put his mouth nice and close to my ear and whisper: "I know." Once we started getting more sexually active, I found that he liked coming on my face, and watching me take his cock so deep in my throat I was almost choking on it, and fucking my ass. Things like that. Then of course came spankings-- never too hard, and never really as "punishment" for anything...

Mmm, but last night... I told him that I was in the mood to be told what to do and he rolled with that. At first I did what I was told, but when he ordered me to get on my hands and knees to get fucked from behind, I balked and stayed laying on the bed on my belly, asking him what he'd do if I didn't obey (though of course I wanted to!). "I'm going to slap your ass, but seriously this time. Not the way we've been playing until now." I just stared him down, a bit scared, a lot excited, calling what I knew couldn't possibly be a bluff. He looked dead serious. Still, I layed there and waited. And he hauled off and gave me a hard whack on the butt. It hurt! But not enough that I obeyed just yet... I wanted to see what he'd do if I kept being rebellious. And of course what he did was smack my ass again, HARD. And you can bet I scrambled onto those hands and knees!

Damn, I'm excited about where all this goes! In the past I've either had boyfriends who were such good boys through and through that they weren't into this sort of play... or, I was too shy and unsure about it to ask for it/initiate it. I'm thrilled to be exploring something that has been of interest to me for a while now. I still really dig other modes of sex too (eg, sweet, gentle, loving, playful, being the aggressive one, etc.), and I still want an egalitarian relationship outside the bedroom (no TiH for me, with all due respect to the ladies who dig it)... but I think I am in for a wild, fun, new ride!

Thanks for this forum.

not sure if you are looking for advise or wanted to share...or maybe both.

i'm happy that you are finding what you are looking for, but it sounds like you need to talk to him about safe words. other than that have at it!
Hey gt, thanks for the reply. I'm mostly just looking to share smile.gif As far as safe words go: yeah, I've been wondering at what point we need to establish one. So far he always checks in with me/warns me, asks me if I'm okay with everything, and I know that a simple "okay, stop now" would suffice. But thanks for the reminder that if we're going to progress this that a safe word needs to be on the to-do list.

(BTW- I really dig the red picture under your name... is that from your own art?)
no, actually it's not my art (for once), but thanks.

i kinda figured you wanted to share. i'm kinda a mother hen when it comes to the safe,sane, consentual and safeword thing. so do forgive me. when i did graffitti i'd tell everybody to wear the filter masks too.

my advise is have the safe word conversation before you need it. it's kind of a temp guage. if he thinks safewords are silly, he's not safe. it he doesn't stop when you use them, he's not safe. and you really don't want to find that out when you are cuffed to his bed.

oh, and do be careful with choking. not to over state things, but there is quite a bit of damage that can be done.
Octinoxate –

I’m glad that you are exploring these desires you’ve had. Your Mr. Sounds very domineering, confident and exciting. Keep sharing your experiences with us.

I don’t really have anything to share. I’ve been on my period and Mr. Pug and I just haven’t really had time. My knee has been bothering me and Mr. Pug just went to the dentist and had some work done so he’s been sore.

However, he did wake me up in the middle of the night the other night. I rolled over and was like, “What’s the matter baby?” all sleepy like and he was like, “Nothing.” and shoved my head down to suck his cock as I was trying to wake up. I tried to stop and catch my breath (move my bed head hair out of my mouth’s way) and he just forced his cock in my mouth even harder, getting a little whimper out of me. Then he rolled me over, lubed me up and we attempted anal sex. It hasn’t been working so well the last few times. I don’t think I’ve really been into it recently. My mind isn’t in it because I’m overloaded with school. When we were done I was laying on my stomach still trying to wake up and he whacked me hard on the ass when I really wasn’t prepared. Man did it sting. It still stung the next morning.

I think we are going to have to make some time for the two of us sometime in the next couple days. I miss his touch and I can tell he misses me too. Before he goes to work he rubs my pussy a lot and pinches my nipples. But by the time we get home one of us is too tired or it’s late and we both just want to go to sleep. I hate when life gets so busy you can’t find time to make love. It’s very depressing.

This weekend is so busy as well. I think we are helping our friends move into their new house.

OH OH!! I think I’m going to get my nipples pierced very soon. I’m SOOOOO excited about that too. Only thing is that Mr. Pug won’t be able to touch them for a while, which kind of sucks. But in the long run I’m going to have sexy pierced nipples.

((((((((((Less stressful, busy days and more good loving to all who need it))))))))))

*goes into a daze*
it's too bad you're getting your nipples pierced so soon, pugs... your talking about nipple pinching reminded me of my ex/daddy... she put me on nipple training for the first couple of months we were dating. she (and i really) wanted me to have bigger nipples, so she had access to my nipples at all times. this meant she could lift up my shirt any time she liked--- and pinch, twist, bite or flick them whenever she liked. neither of us is much for public play, but if it was someone who was into bdsm, she was sure to flex her power over me. i'd be watching a movie or something and her hand would slideup my shirt and pinch me to the point of squealing. she also got some pretty mean nipple clamps that i had to wear for a set amount of time each night. i hated them, but they were better than the alternative: plastic clothes pins.

clothes pins (or c47's if you're on a film set) can be very very mean. i had a domme who would go to a craft supply store and get a bag full of doll sized clothespins. she tied me up and held a handful of regular sized c47s and a handful of the tiny ones and asked which ones i wanted used on me.

i chose wrong. i thought the tiny ones wouldn't hurt me, but they were worse than anything. she insisted that i not make a peep. she was, after all, about to watch a little tv. i thought i'd bite thru my lip trying not to scream.. she was very, very wicked. smile.gif
/runs and hides

My nipples are more sensitive than anything on me, including my clitoris. I might pass out if someone did that...
yeah. well i'm not much for pain either, but i did like subbing to her, and she liked tormenting me like that. i think i mentioned that she pierced my nipples. i was really hoping someone would have mercy on me by kicking me in my stones with some steel toed boots. turns out i'm a bleeder. which made her all to happy
opheliathemuse!!!!! oMG. i'm the same way. i've never talked to someone who has really sensitive nipples....i almost get embarrassed when i am with someone, and the guy plays with them to the point of [my] orgasm, because i thought i was the only one......

I'd like to nominate Orion as best new dom. \
Thank you.
I didn't mean to kill the thread! =(
I've honestly been too busy IRL to even set aside some time for a good romp in bed with Mr. Pug. I miss it so much too. Hopefully when my mom is better we can get back to having "us" time again. Right now I'm too busy with school and worrying about my sick momma. You didn't kill the thread I just haven't had anything to add. Anyone else???
You didn't kill the thread ophelia! Its those of us that are lacking in the sexytime that killed the thread! I'm very happy for (read: jealous of) you and Orion!
I can vicariously add something:

All of my friends are kinky. I swear.

My roommate can orgasm any time she wants because she gets into that headspace so easily. I'm so jealous. She goes to kink events all the time; she just did water bondage this weekend!
does anyone have any experience with urethral jewellry for men? there are some really beautiful pieces on one of the websites i peruse, and the thought of putting it on a penis, into the hole in the head, with something gorgeous decorating an already deliciously delectable cock makes me dripping wet. he isn't so sure about it, though. agrees that it is hot, but thinks it would HURT.

anyone tried them? may have to come back to post a link or two so that people know what i am talking about......
So, I have a question. It seems to me that I crave bdsm more when I'm emotional... when I'm hurting or unsure, or just... feel unstable emotionally. I love to be told what to do, what to want when I'm like that. It takes my choices away, but not in a bad way. As long as I'm okay with everything suggested, why shouldnt I do it or enjoy it, you know? It brings about a certain type of peace, that exhausted, zinging, numb, sex glow calm...

Do you find yourselves in similar *ahem* positions?

tes -

I have a friend with a penis piercing. Not sure which one it is but he said getting his nipples hurt more then his penis. I just got my nipples pierced and I can tell you it fucking hurt so I would tell him that yes it might hurt but probably not as bad as he thinks. I think it also depends on which piercing you get. I think they are sexy as hell too but Mr. Pug would never, never, never get a piercing. He's chicken.

pink -

I'm not sure if you read but my mom's been sick and I've been very emotional running around helping my dad and her in and out of the hospital. I've noticed that Mr. Pug has been spanking me a lot more and exercising his authority over me more since all this has been going on. I too like it and it helps center me and takes away some of options in a good way. For example, we had to go grocery shopping yesterday and I was standing in front of the tea section frustrated because I ddin't have time to go get good tea so I was buying at the grocery store and I couldn't choose between peach ginger or white lavander. He saw me fretting and grabbed the peach ginger box and said, "There decision made." He smacked me on the ass and said, "Let's go." He walked on and I was kinda stunned. However, I was glad he did it. I get like that when I have other things on my mind and I will spend long periods of time just fussing over stupid shit. This morning he wanted sex and I was like, "Baby, I'm not in the mood. Please can we do it later." I've been saying this for a week. He said, "Nope. Once we start you'll be happy we did and if you're not then you can lay there like a dead fish and I won't be upset." I looked at him alittle dazed and said, "Fine. Whatever." He went very slow and told me how sexy I am and how much he loves me and has missed me the last two weeks that I've been so overwhelmed. It was that very sensual, close, whispering, lots of kissing sex. It was so wonderful. I hate admitting when he's right ya know...
The Apadravya piercing feels great and looks hot though it can be irritating during anal. It takes a long time to heal but is fun and beautiful. It's really functional. According to my lover, the pain of piercing is not that huge, but the healing takes some time and a lot of soaking in sea salt. But it sounds like you are talking about something you might attach to a Prince Albert?
lapis -

I just checked out a few pictures of the apadravya piercing. That shit looks serious. That would take a very brave man. My nipples hurt for the actual needle through flesh but afterwards they were just very sensitive. At first the cleaning and warm salt water soaks felt time consuming and annoying but now it's just something I do everyday. It's very easy actually once you get into a routine.

tes -

does he already have a piercing and you are looking for jewlery to attach?
pink, yeah, i understand what you mean. of course, i don't currently have a partner right now, but i know in my fantasy life that's what i want. oh, and it's nice to be with my male friends who will take control of a situation too. like yesterday. they ordered dinner for me. i liked it. it is a way of being helped in a very protective way that turns me on. i can't explain it, but i know what you mean. spanking, talking, caressing are great forms of affection and letting me know my partner is present.
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