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wow. that is anal. sorry, laurenann. I think you sound perfectly reasonable- these are all little things that would be obnoxious on a regular basis- maybe your neighbour wants to nip them in the bud, but going about it ALL WRONG. argh.

I'm glad you bumped this thread. I'm having ISSUES with my roommate.
Any time away from him and I start to build up this huge grudge. A ridiculous amount of pent up anger and frustration at everything. when he's around he's easy going and it's easy to put off, but then he's gone and i keep thinking about how cruel he is to me, in things he says to and about me and does to me.
like actively making sure I would miss my flight to visit my parents= a trip that he recommended I do.
bitching to me about cleaning the place but when i get home from the holiday it's a mess. I didn't even get a note for when I got home and he knew I was coming home (this is petty on my part, but notes are often the only way we connect).
he ate two of my cinnamon buns without asking, not that I mind that they are gone, (I made them when craving them, and don't want to eat more of them.) But- I never said he could. And he always thinks I ate his food when I don't and complains about it so it bothers me that he eats mine.
he says things about my that only i'm allowed to say. i don't want him to tell me i'm better off without him. I know that. But I don't want to hear it.
everytime I do something at home I can imagine him saying something- now i always wonder if i'm leaving streaks in the toilet, even if it's just pee. I don't want to think of him every time i'm on the freaking toilet.
how he knows so much about me but only brings it up to make me feel bad (secrets I told him when we were better friends- and still tell him when we're chatting and i'm drunk, cuz i still half-trust him)
glass, i hear ya, my roommate was also my friend first, and it's not until we moved in together that i realized the extent of her annoying-ness. her messiness was somehow charming a couple of years ago. JESUS CHRIST WHY IS THERE 8 GALLONS OF WATER ON THE SINK AFTER YOU BRUSH YOUR TEETH!!!!! ok thank you for letting me rant.

messiness is not even the real issue. we used to shop together, see concerts together, etc. etc. etc. now we live together, shop together, go to concerts together, go to shoprite for milk together, eat dinner together, etc etc etc. I DON'T KNOW IF I'LL BE HOME FOR DINNER TONITE!!!!! thanks again.
uh, i was looking for this thread a couple of weeks ago.

yeah, i found it!

my roommate was also a friend. actually, living together didn't make things bad. our friendship and the other people i used to be friends with was dissolving. unfortunately, we were living together as roommates with the dissolution of our friendship. there was no screaming or yelling. just a clearing of old pictures of our shared group of friends...of him and i together as friends. we used to be civil and cordial to each other. then one day, he just stopped responding to my hellos and goodbyes. oh well.

i'm just pissed that he doesn't let me know if he will be gone for a couple of days or what. he went away for a week and didn't tell me. i figured it out of course. oh, and i think he went home to his folks house last night. but, he didn't tell me. i just came home to an empty place. he is too weird.
oh man...i think the worst thing you can do is move in with a friend.
you go into the situation thinking everything will be awesome, fun, a constant party....

you wake up 5 years later and realise this person is a complete and utter procrastinating cheap selfish lazyass.

i have problems confronting her on stuff, because part of me has just given up at this point! i am moving back in with my mom in a few months anyway (to save money so i can buy something instead of rent).

the best things you can do prior to moving in with someone is to have a defined chore schedule, & a defined financial plan (who pays for what, what you split, do you take turns buying stuff? etc)--and try to get it in writing!

if i had known this years ago, i believe my living situation would have been much more smooth.
I actually lived with one of my best friends. As long as we had a cleaning schedule, a bill schedule, etc we were okay. I'm really amazed it didn't fuck up our friendship. I guess it helped that we had different work schedules at the time. This was a couple of years ago. Honestly, he was one of the best roommates I had ever had.

Now, I live with crazy landlady and bitchy housemate. Ugh. I know they both care about me (as I do for them). Yet, space is a big thing with me. Margaret (landlady) is so damn nosey. I believe that she thinks that I am her daughter. I'm just her tenant. I still can't believe I've been here 10 months. Now, we don't have much heat. Ugh. I'm hoping that I don't get a cold.

I will be so glad to reaching a point in my life where I can live alone! I realized that I haven't lived by myself in like 5 years. It's been five years too long. sad.gif
is it unreasonable to ask a roommate to keep her orgasms to a less-audible level? i'm happy for her that she has such a great sex life lately, but it's also waking me up and disrupting my everyday life.

i had a really really bad night with my own personal problems and i just hear her coming over and over and over again and it's driving me mad.
I kicked my boyfriends friend out today. I feel a little guilty, but it needed to be done. The man LITERALLY sat online all day as supposed to looking to find a way to work legally in this country or even making the smart decision to go home. He claimed he needed money to go home, so I gave him a couple hundred and sent him on his way. It was so nice to have the place to my boyfriend and I once again (insert sigh of relief!).
annelise-omg, that's awful! she needs to keep it down, geez-scream into a pillow or something. i mean, it's one thing in the middle of the day or something, but in the middle of the nigth? grody dude. have you ever said anything to her? is she nice? geez.....
my roommate is awesome, and a good friend--i don't have many issues with her at all otherwise. i'd said something to her about it last week, finally, and she was cool about it. she was really embarrassed that she was being that loud when having sex.

then her gf was over last night and i could hear muffled bed-thumping sounds but nothing too bad, so i thought, great! and then, this morning, earlier than i wanted to be awake, AGAIN with the loud orgasm noises. i'll have to talk to her again or something. arrrrgh.
lol, that's great that she was embarrassed! at least she's not just one of those annoying "i'm having such a loud orgasm so that everyone can hear what great sex i'm having right now" people....

yeah, keep talking about it-i mean good lord! i don't know if you have thin walls or what, but i've rarely heard my roomie-only when i've walked right past her door can i hear (on the way to the bathroom).

i like my roommates a lot, but those little things just drive me nuts sometimes-the other day i couldn't find the remote, spent 10 minutes searching for it-finally found it-of all places- under the couch cushion wrapped up in a quilt that had been folded up and placed under the couch cushion. wtf???

other roomie liikes to conduct work conference calls on her cell in the kitchen, and will "shush" me if i come in talking or whatever. grrr! it's the fucking kitchen! you can't expect to do a phone interview in the kitchen when you have roommates-that's what your room is for!!!!

roomie whose fish sauce container (no lid) spilled all over the fridge about 3 months ago-i cleaned up some of it but it's still in there stinking-i don't think she'll ever notice....

i like them both so much as people, and it's just little dumb things, but some days i'm just like arghhhh!!!!!
i'd asked her a while ago (before the loud-orgasm problem with her) if she ever heard anything when i was in my bedroom with my bf, and she said she'd never heard anything at all. i figured it helped that our bedrooms are on opposite sides of the apartment, but i can still hear her from my bedroom nonetheless!

so yeah, we might have thin walls, but not so thin that you can't have very enjoyable sex (i'm not always quiet myself, though i try not to be loud when i know she's in the next room or something).

i'm glad that she's a good enough friend that i can say something. she really is embarrassed, although i tried to be tactful. (not telling her fullout, for instance, that the noise really creeps my bf out. he'd thought it might be hot to hear lesbians getting it on, but it turned out not to be that way at all for him. otoh, it's a great way to get him to go run errands for me)
errands, ha ha!

i find that hearing other people having sex is not a turn on to me. it's just annoying. and sometimes funny. and then i think of how goofy i probably sound when i'm doing it, and that's just embarrassing smile.gif

maybe you do need to tell her fullout how loud it is, i mean it sucks-ideallyl everyone should be able to yell or whatever, but in reality, put a sock in it!!!!
Would it be a really bitch passive aggressive move to move my tv (currently in the living room along with all my dvds) into my bedroom? My fucking ex roommate moved out and got this woman to replace her, but she didn't make it clear that the bills she'd be responsible for are the cable and electric. So the new person said she wasn't going to pay the cable bill since she doesn't really watch tv.

She's been watching all afternoon.

Meanwhile, my other roommate and I have to split the bill and I'm too fucking poor right now to deal with this added bullshit. I got rid of all the extras, but it still comes out to over $35 each.

I don't mind if people watch my tv or my dvds. That's what it's there for. And I don't really want to put it in my room because I don't like having tv's in my room (I'll never get out of bed). But shit. WTF?!
My boyfriend and I's roommate moved out around a month ago (yaaaaaaaay!) but he's still annoying us all the way from freaking Maryland. He never notified the post office, apparently, because we're getting all his mail, including his W-2s and everything. And I guess he never told his dad and stepmother that he was moving because they came looking for him. Then he and our friend/his new roommate came back into town a few days ago and let themselves in while we weren't home to comb the house for more stuff he wanted but was too lazy to pack last time. When he left, we had a giant pile of garbage to clean up and shitty broken furniture to haul away. And while they were here, who knows what they saw now that we actually have privacy to leave things out.
faerietales - I definitely don't think moving the tv is uncalled for. I would do the exact same thing. Definitely.
As I type this I can hear my two roommate almost screaming at each other about the phone bill they share together. I was trying to sleep but there is no way it's happening until they stop. We live in a tiinnnyy apartment and I can practically hear when they breath heavy.
If it wasn't for the fact that I have to wake up at 4 am for school I wouldn't care, but I do. And they know this. And it really annoys me. AAAaagh!
fairietales: yeah, move the TV. It wouldn't be passive-aggressive. It wouldn't even be bitchy. You can't afford it, you can't afford it.
hopefully this qualifies as post-able in the "roommates" thread...

so, my best friend (we've been so close for over 6 years) called me yesterday from a psychiatric hospital. she's in her first year of college at an ivy league school and has been having trouble handling college-related drama (living away from her friends, her family expects too much of her, she doesn't know what she wants to do in life, etc). on top of all of this, she just got out of a serious relationship (not by her choice, though). i can relate to all of these feelings and how truly awful they feel, as well as i can relate to having severe depression, and would really like to help her out (plus i miss her dearly!)

well, she called asking me if she could live with me at my apartment for a while (she said she would get a job and help out, which i don't doubt at all) because she feels that her parents aren't supportive and living with them after being released from the hospital would be a bad idea. the only thing is, i'm in a serious but semi-new relationship with my boyfriend, and he lives with me in a one-bedroom apartment (it's big, but not huge). i talked to him about it and he sincerely said that it was okay, and i believe him. the only thing is, i don't want to be torn between my love for him and our new, developing relationship and my commitment to my best friend, who has always been there for me. i wouldn't mind if she stayed for a week or two, but there's no way i can live with her and him, it's too much! and there's no way she'll be able to afford her own place to live (and especially not so soon!) here. so, i told her "okay" and i'm going to pick her up when she is discharged. but now i'm sort-of regretting it. i was thinking maybe she could stay for a few weeks, and i could convince her to talk to her parents (which would be beneficial for her anyway, she needs them as a support system, and they're not unreasonable people) and then maybe she could go back to live with them. but i don't know how to do this! any ideas? also i'm worried about her coming here and me not being able to help her (because i have a hectic life as it is, on my own!) and feeling bad about it.

any advice would be greatly appreciated, thanks a lot for listening ladies!
ellievie. hello. When are you supposed to pick her up? If it's a long way away from now, just wait a bit before you say anything, she may find other means and cancel on you. In the meantime, you might think of a cool way to tell her that your boyfriend may not be so chill about the living have told him not to worry, your friend will not be there long, just a few weeks. that would bring up the issue of time if you need to have a discussion about it beforehand?

I feel so terrible for your friend, she must be feeling so bad. I don't blame you for wishing to help her out so bad. But you do seem to have a certain relationship with your S.o. which is already starting to develop and it sounds like you feel strongly it may upset the balance of that relationship? YOu have to be true to yourself, you deserve that. so good luck
thanks jan!
anyway, i don't know when i'm supposed to pick her up, she doesn't have a set discharge date yet. probably within the next week.
i think i'm definitely going with the boyfriend thing, that way i will be able to say "how long will you be here?" without actually saying it/being rude or making her feel like i don't want her there-because i do want to help her! because if she gets there and we haven't already discussed the time issue i can't just all of a sudden say "um...can you leave now?" because i know she feels lost and like she has no where to go, and i could never do that. but you're right, i do also have to do what's best for me.
My roommate is so fucking unclean. Last summer, while sitting on my bed, I could SMELL his room, with his door CLOSED. We've spoken about this..his solution to date is spray air freshener (yay! country peach flavoured stank!)

The thing is, he pays his rent on time and he's never here, and I've always been able to justify living next door to a moat, because of the quiet and privacy I have.

Walking by his room the past few weeks, (it's on the way to mine, unavoidable), I caught a whiff of that familiar stank. I snapped and have been planning my new happy life with my new future roommate, but I'm having trouble just giving him the boot. I have all the rights (it's under my lease), but I hate being the bad guy so much. I'll probably sleeze my way out of this, by sending him an email (we never see each other) about my ailing aunt needing a place to live. so weak, I know!
I am REALLY pissed and need some advice. My boyfriend just went into the bathroom and discovered that one of our roommates wiped their ass with our only towel. We have done nothing wrong to merit this behavior, it anything at all COULD merit this behavior. We are out of toilet paper and have been all day. We have bought the last 7 packages of it, and it is way past their time to buy it, so it is not that. PLUS, they have 2 towels of their own in there and a washcloth plus we have a washing machine if it happened to be an accident. I. AM. LIVID.

My first instinct is to go in their room and wipe the floor with them, BUT they owe us for 2 months worth of bills, half of that we already covered for them, and rent. AND, we cannot afford to pay their way, even for a little bit, we only have enough money for our half of rent, bills and because we paid their half of a couple of bills, we have no food to eat while they spend every night getting take out food. I'm sorry if none of this makes sence, but I am so PISSED and don't know how to rationally deal with this.

They have no legal obligation to pay their bills or rent. We have no lease, all the bills are in our name... I don't even think their parents know they live here. I have never in my life been treated so badly by anyone and I have had a lot of roommates in my day.

I am SOOOO pissed off.

QUOTE(tankgirl @ Nov 5 2008, 11:02 PM) *
I am REALLY pissed and need some advice. My boyfriend just went into the bathroom and discovered that one of our roommates wiped their ass with our only towel. We have done nothing wrong to merit this behavior, it anything at all COULD merit this behavior. We are out of toilet paper and have been all day. We have bought the last 7 packages of it, and it is way past their time to buy it, so it is not that. PLUS, they have 2 towels of their own in there and a washcloth plus we have a washing machine if it happened to be an accident. I. AM. LIVID.

My first instinct is to go in their room and wipe the floor with them, BUT they owe us for 2 months worth of bills, half of that we already covered for them, and rent. AND, we cannot afford to pay their way, even for a little bit, we only have enough money for our half of rent, bills and because we paid their half of a couple of bills, we have no food to eat while they spend every night getting take out food. I'm sorry if none of this makes sence, but I am so PISSED and don't know how to rationally deal with this.

They have no legal obligation to pay their bills or rent. We have no lease, all the bills are in our name... I don't even think their parents know they live here. I have never in my life been treated so badly by anyone and I have had a lot of roommates in my day.

I am SOOOO pissed off.

You're fucked. Since you have no legal leg on which to stand on, (And they KNOW that or they wouldn't be doing it.) there's not much you can do & they already owe you for monies paid. I say get subversive.

Resort to the dirty, unsavory tricks like those that have been foisted upon you. Bespoil their things. Spit in their food. Wipe all your mutual post-coital juices on their towels until they get crispy (Disinfect yo bits after). I say do every dirty, nasty thing you can think of. Fuck in their bed & leave them with the wetspot. Leave pubes in their soap. Leave "dook tags" in the bowl. Use their toothbrushes to do unspeakable things. DO IT! Get as nasty as you wanna get, they'll notice. It's not like they are gonna go to CSI & get DNA. And *they* don't have a leg to stand on as subletters.

If you can't stomach that, buy a box of choco pudding, mix it up & leave them some skiddley diddleys on their towels & whatever.

I let a friend stay with me once & she was GROSS. Once I started bespoiling her things, she started getting her shit together & found her own place. And she was NASTY! She'd leave days old pastries under her bed & was just generally unsanitary. Her draws were all over the place, she was just gross.

AP---hahahhhahhhahhaahhhhahhhaaa! I love your choice of words. brilliant. "dook tags" "skiddley diddleys"....hilarious.
Even though they owe you money, I would give them notice and start looking for a new roommate. I can't imagine doing something like that to someone I lived with.
Thanks for the nasty suggestions AP, haha. To be honest though, I'm not sure I have it in me to be like that to them. I wish I could. The thing is, I don't know which one of them did it (they are a couple) and we are only assuming its the boy because he's generally an ass (sorta at least verbally abusive towards her and try's to pass it off as sarcasticness.) So, if it was him, I wouldn't want to take it out on her, because she seems like a really nice girl. If I knew it was him, I could probably have it in me to do some really mean shit to him. But if it WAS her, I don't think I'd know how to deal with it.

Anyway, yes, they are going to have to look for a new place to live. This sucks. We have been here 6 months and already had 3 sets of roommates. All of which have screwed us over in some way or another. The first one said she was going to move in the second month we were here, and for reasons beyond our control, even though we got the apartment all together, we ended up having to pay for the whole first month, all the utility deposits, and have to live here w/o water or electricity for the first 2 weeks. Then she gave us 2 weeks notice before she moved out because she found an apartment that was more expensive but better because it had land and she could talk to the trees or some shit. To top it all off, she left us with 2 months of unpaid bills, our water got shut off for a day because of it, and then had the balls to ask for her $200 deposit back.

Then we had a roommate that said he would take the place, had the cash on hand, then dropped the bomb that he had found another place and would be moving out a month later. We should have handed him his money back right then, but we decided we could catch up on some bills with that money so we let him stay... BIG mistake. He ended up not getting the apartment after we had found new roommates, but since we had 3 bedrooms, we said he could stay for another 15 days so he wouldn't be out on his ass. That proved to be a mistake as well since he lost his job, ate all our food, and had his low life friend sleep on our couch making the whole house uncomfortable for everyone. We ended up having to forcibly remove his friend, on my birthday because he tackled my boyfriend.

So now we have this couple, who seemed really nice, although a lot younger than us. I thought everything was going fine, except for the bills thing until now. The thing that has been getting me is that they order pizza every night instead of buying real (cheaper) food and paying their bills.

So, sorry for the book. But in conclusion, I just think I am too nice and maybe have become a pushover. I haven't had a roommate in 3-4 years (besides my boyfriend) but I have had PLENTY in the past, in college etc and don't ever remember having any bad luck like this. Maybe it is moving to a new city and not knowing anyone to room with. Dog, I can't wait till we can afford this place on our own.
I just wrote them an email. Here it is:

Listen, we haven't seen a whole lot of you guys recently, and there are some things that we need to discuss. We tried knocking on your door, but you didn't respond. I didn't want to resort to writing an email, but you guys have left us no choice.
#1 we need to get rent and bills from you.
#2 we found shit wiped all over our towel and washcloth. Neither of us did it and we haven't had anyone over the house, so there is only one answer to that. That is both disrespectful and disgusting. Just because we ran out of TP does not mean that it is okay to deface our personal property. You guys could just use napkins and paper towels like we have been until we get more.
#3 Your screen on your bedroom window is ripped out and broken, do you know anything about that?
We thought you guys were mature and were going to be good housemates until all of this has happened, and have no idea why you have decided to do this to us. We would like to think you guys could just talk to us if you had any issues instead of doing something like this. Today is the 7th and we need to pay rent and bills and we have only a couple of days until our bills are delinquent and the utility companies don't mess around with that sort of thing. The amount of the bills are posted on the refrigerator. We would like to talk to you in person, but any sort of response will do.
Good e-mail, TG. It's to the point and no b.s., so I hope they get the message.

May I just say that I'm a big introvert and could never live with roommates. I've seen several friends live through it and don't know how they handled it.

An old boyfriend of mine, before we lived together, lived in a shared household and often found that the other people in the house ate his food, even though he labeled all his food in the fridge. The other housemates sometimes invited other people to stay, too, which the landlord didn't allow, but they got away with it because nobody reported them and the landlord never checked the property. One of them was a single Latina mom who moved in alone and took the biggest bedroom in the house, which had previously been rented by a couple. After she'd been living there for 2 months, her 2 teenage sons came to live with her on a temporary basis (or so she said). Her excuse was that they'd been living with their father in a different part of town where there was gang activity and she was afraid her sons would get involved.

Which was a laugh because it was obvious her sons were already gang affiliated. A few weeks after they moved in, gang tagging appeared on the front walk of the house, and on the pavement in the back yard. Every Friday night, their house became the party house, drawing a whole bunch of Latino gangstas and their girlfriends, all hanging out on the front porch or in the back, smoking pot and blasting raggaeton and Latino hip hop. Mom was out there with them, too, smoking her Mores and drinking a 40.

Unfortunately, my boyfriend at the time was fascinated by the gang activity, so he wasn't ready to move out, even though they were the ones eating his food, and the woman's older son physically menaced him on two separate occasions - once when my boyfriend confronted him about eating his food, and the other time just because he could. It took the boyfriend another few months to really get fed up with them, at which point we decided to move in together, and he got out of that potentially dangerous situation.

I also observed a girl friend who I worked with endure living with 3 other female co-workers for several years. The back stabbing, in-fighting, gossiping and boyfriend stealing that went on while she lived there was just insane, so she finally moved out on her own and was much happier. They did throw some great parties while she lived there, though.
so their out, we are down the 650 they owed us and we are looking for a new roommate. This fucking blows. But, we are very very very happy those assholes are gone. I hate having to depend on other people just to live. But, the truth is, this apartment is cheap enough that me and the boy will eventually be able to live here by ourselves once we get our feet completely on the ground. But, as of now we both still only work part time and that's not going to cut it. le sigh.

I never ended up doing anything even remotely cruel to them, and I may regret it. I think I just wanted to act like the adult, and maybe someday they will feel guilty for the way they acted. Plus, I believe in karma.
That sucks you're out the money but at least they're gone. Did you kick them out or did they decide to fuck off after you sent the email?
we wrote a couple emails back and forth. She denied the towel thing and said her mom found out her and her bf were living together and was pissed so she had to move out and they had no money to give us for rent or bills. I said gtfo now or pay rent for the whole month and they did. But not till after they washed their cat in our bathtub at 9PM? people are so weird and I am sick of them.
Oh my god, what a couple of assholes, tankgirl.

What is wrong with people? Why is it so hard to find good roommates? Gawwwd. Anyway I feel your pain. My BF has suggested creating a wall of shame out of the parade of bums who've lived here (and future bums), just for the record, just for my personal amusement after they finally gtfo of my home.

So far I've learned to get references and, I'm sorry to say, I hesitate to rent to people who are more than 7 years younger than I am, cause it always ends in tears and mommy issues.
Grrrrrrrrrrrr! Useless ex-flatmate is disputing landlord charges as £150 relates to removal of furniture that wasn't his - dammit, what about the £300 for cleaning charges for all the mess he left? You can't make up for 3 years for neglect with one big burst of scrubbing, not with those stains. I really want him to just accept it so we can get the remainder of our deposits back - if I'm happy to split it, he should be.
okay, i posted briefly on this in the letters thread, but i want to get some feedback. i don't remember if i posted it here or another thread, but a few years back when i was a brokeass student and had nowhere else to stay, a friend of mine took me in and let me crash on her couch. it ended up being an unmitigated disaster that ruined our friendship. between the lack of privacy, her two teenagers (one of whom was an occasionally violent little shit), her trying to mommy me, and some financial disagreements, it sucked royally, and she ended up kicking me out.

we started talking again several months ago, and we've kind've fallen back into our old friendship and just don't mention the time we lived together and drove each other crazy. she lost her job of eight years a couple months ago, and she's looking for work where i'm at, among other places. after an evening at the library working on her resume a couple weeks ago, she asked about the possibility of the two of us getting a place together if she gets hired on somewhere in town. she'd already been looking at different apartment complexes in the area and everything. i kind of avoided the issue and left her with a vague comment that i'd think about it.

i really don't want to live with her again. she's got this idea that it would work out great if i, c-monkey, her, and her daughter (the psycho kid, who has grown into an aimless pothead who bounces from friend to friend and occasionally comes home for food wouldn't be coming with them) got a two-bedroom apartment. i think it's just asking for the old drama to start up again. her daughter's sixteen now and has issues with sneaking out of the house or sneaking boys in while mom's at work, and every time i talk to her, which is two or three times a week, they've had some new argument. i don't want to deal with that shit right now, i'll have plenty of crappy teenager stuff of my own when c-monkey gets to be that age. signing up for two or three more years of it, and not even my kid, just seems like a special kind of stupid. and what happens if her son shows up needing a place to stay? i say no, for very good and valid reasons, and i end up looking like the bitch? i don't think so. we've also got very different ideas of cleanliness and child-rearing. i don't mind a little clutter around the house, and she babies her kids to the point that they're incapable of even doing their own dishes. i cannot abide a useless child, and at their ages, her kids should really be capable of more.

i don't care that moving in together would save me a few hundred a month on a rent, which could then be spent on the big cable package and other useless things that i'm doing just fine without right now, thank you very much. i like being able to afford my own place, and i have all the things i actually need. i might feel differently if we were both working minimum wage at wal-mart or something and needed to save money for necessities, but if she gets hired on where i work, she can afford her own damn apartment too. i don't want to get used to having extra money and extra things and then have do without when the inevitable blow-up happens, again. i don't want anyone else dictating my living situation or having a vote because they're on the lease. the whole point of working so hard the past few years and getting the position i've got now was to make enough money to where i wouldn't be forced to live with someone else in order to make ends meet.

so her job search thing has been going on for a couple of months now, and her calls are sounding increasingly less upbeat and chipper as her unemployment is held in limbo and no callbacks for interviews have come through, and i'm terrified that she's going to ask to move in with me until something comes through for her. or call and say she's got something, but it's only minimum wage, so we can that place together now, right? all those things that went wrong for those few months that i stayed with her will just as easily go wrong here. hell, i don't even have a couch. i'm grateful that she took me in for that short time, and a better person would return the favor. but me, i'm resentful already just thinking about her holding that obligation over my head, and she so would. she'd say it's okay and move in with her mom or something, but in her head she'd be thinking "well, guess i know who my real friends are!" i know, cause i've seen her do it to other people when they were unable or unwilling to return her grand gestures. or i'd cave and let her move in out of guilt and obligation and meanwhile be seething with hate and resentment for her the whole while.

so, how do i get her to see moving in together as a Very Bad Idea of Epic Fail without coming off as a selfish bitch or ruining our barely healing friendship with my refusal?
I'd just refuse politely - say that you and c-monkey are happy in your current place and you like living with just the two of you. And that you value her friendship, which you think would be seriously strained by the pressures of living together.

You may not be able to convince her of your point of view, but I'm not sure that you need to. I do think that you should tell her as soon as possible, so that she doesn't build her hopes up.

Is there anything else you could do to help her, like looking at ads for flatmates or asking around to see if anyone you know would be interested in sharing an apartment with her?

FWIW, I think you're making the right choice (for all of you).
Grrl, I absolutely agree with everything perisflager has said. Additionally, you will feel better once you've made your position clear and it will free her up to pursue other options. Your friendship may even improve because you won't feel pressured anymore, but it might be a good idea to help her out in other ways as suggested.

Grrrl, I agree with Persiflager, you should try to bring up the fact that the last time you guys lived together it was not good at all.

As for the whole "now I know who my real friends are" I think that's kind of rude. Yes, sometimes we rely on friends to offer us a place to stay but she should respect the fact that you won't be able to do that without losing your mind. I'm kind of curious as to what these grand gestures are that she has made in the past. Also, if she expects something in return then she isn't even doing them just for the sake of being nice, it shows that she'll only do something to get something else in return.
okay, it's done! thanks guys. she ended up coming over yesterday (completely unannounced i might add, grr), and we hung out at the park with another friend i hadn't seen in a while. it actually turned out to be a pretty nice day. anyway, at one point, other friend brought up "party at [my friend]'s house!" and she said "oh, [me] might be there too." and i just said, "um, no. it's nice that we're hanging out again, but i can't live with you. sorry, but i worked all those long and crazy hours to get promoted to a job with more pay so i could live on my own, and i don't want to go back to a roomie situation." she seemed to take it all right, maybe cause our other friend was there and she couldn't freak out and guilt-trip me, but i feel loads better having it out there.
I was woken up at 4am by the screeching sounds of the hot water pipes in the bathroom, after my room mate forgot to turn the water off... who does that? Then, I was kept awake by her screaming at the top of her lungs on the phone to her ex-girlfriend about her spreading rumours about how her vagina stinks and vengeance threats of counteracting the rumours with telling everyone she wouldn't go down on her. She eventually stopped because her phone died, but 30 mins later it all started again because she charged her phone.

She's moving out in 4 days, and is totally taking advantage of the that fact.

... its almost 6:30am now... sleep please?
Oh, thank god - a roommate thread! My new, virtual, roommate-less home! *kicks back on the sofa*

God, I've got a situation here. I've already posted about my obnoxious roommate in the Fight Club thread and the Bustsecret thread, but I think it's time for some serious Bustie counselling. The truth is, I'm not handling my roommate's obnoxiousness very well. It's bringing out the obsessive compulsive, condescending, controlling, neurotic bitch in me, and that's not good, if only because it kind of robs me of my moral high ground when I'm trying to explain to myself and others why my roommate is so goddamn awful. Plus, moral high ground or no, I'd rather just be relaxed and happy with my room and my roomie and not agitated and uncomfortable all the time.

So here's the deal: I'm living in a 12x15" dorm room with this girl. Shes utterly domestically impaired and has some kind of mental block for neatness; left unchecked for an hour or two, her belongings will spread over every surface like some kind of invasive fungus. She doesnt seem to mind living in her own squalor, but I sure as hell do. Mess makes me depressed. The way I see it, I have three options: 1) accept this as my own problem and deal with it myself (i.e. wordlessly clean up after her all the time), 2) refuse to accept or clean up after her mess and nag her until she cleans it up herself (i.e. be an anal-retentive bitch all the time) and 3) refuse to either nag her or clean up after her (i.e. live in her fucking mess). Obviously, none of these situations is acceptable. I've been trying to take the middle road and relax my expectations a bit, explain to her why her mess needs to be kept in check and take care of some of the more nitpicky things myself, but I feel like it's getting out of hand and snowballing into a whole control/boundary issue that I don't know how to deal with.

My roommate is also a very insecure, socially awkward person who seems to be incapable of hearing or regulating the tone of her voice (seriously - we're here to study Chinese and her spoken Chinese is horrible because of this) and she frequently makes remarks that sound condescending and snotty even when she claims she has no such intent. I'm often tempted to call bullshit, but I'm very uncomfortable claiming to know someone better than they know themselves. Nevertheless, from our first day here, I've often felt like she's trying to make me feel stupid. I have repeatedly confronted her about it and it's improved a little, but it's still a problem, and again, I feel that the situation is getting out of hand. Particularly in the beginning, when we were still basically strangers and I wasn't used to her awkward habits, I was really shocked at how she talked to me. Now, I feel like her rudeness (or what I perceive to be rudeness) gives me permission to be rude, or at least unusually assertive, because otherwise I'm being a doormat. My responses to her are getting stronger and more negative, and I know that this isn't cool. I guess I'm just getting desperate.

We are living in a foreign country with very limited grasp on the language. We really have no choice but to stick together a lot of the time because, in this situation, two heads are better (and safer) than one. But I feel like I'm living with a codependent leech sometimes. She's quite young and not that experienced at living on her own. I feel like I have to do everything all the time and I'm getting resentful. She can't cook; she can't clean; she can't make her own friends; she can't communicate well enough to go out on her own. On the one or two occasions she's ventured to make a pot of rice (a pot of fucking rice! In a fucking electric rice cooker!) she's needed my help - when I'm out having a life, she actually calls me to ask me how to make it. Every time I cook for myself, she asks if she can have some. I don't mind sharing, but I resent that she depends on it - if I don't cook, she just won't eat. I've started feeling really weird about that one and I'm actually refusing to share now, which I hate doing because it seems so spiteful and petty, but I just don't feel right indulging her codependency and then resenting it after. The cleaning situation has improved a bit, but it's taken a lot of nagging, and I still have to point out the messes before she sees them a lot of the time. She always wants to tag along with me when I go to meet friends, which is horrible because not only do I not get a break from her, it just reinforces her dependence on me.

Less toxic but no less annoying is her habit of talking nonstop. Im not kidding. She never shuts up. And she waves her hands around spastically when she talks. She even keeps me up at night talking in her goddamn sleep. Whether Im responding, responding impatiently, or even outright ignoring her, it never fucking stops. In fear for my sanity Ive actually started straight up telling her I dont feel like talking when shes talking too much, but even then she doesnt stop. I swear to god, I dont have any more patience for this.

I already have issues with codependency, and this is a really bad situation for me to be in. Its way too easy for me to slip into that mothering role and I do not want to be the mother of my 19-year-old roommate. I also really dont like the grumpy, oversensitive, controlling person I turn into when Im around her. Im trying to get away from her whenever possible, but its not easy. This past week has been really tough and things kind of came to a head the other night when my patience was particularly thin. I suggested we each write up a set of house rules outlining our expectations for each other, negotiate them together, and then have a rule pot which we donate money to every time one of us breaks a rule, pisses the other person off, and generally disturbs the fragile peace and harmony of our cramped little room. Every month we'll spend the pot on groceries or something fun for the two of us. I feel pretty good about this, but I still dont feel that the situations resolved. Im still living with someone whos essentially toxic to me, and moving out, switching roommates, or just avoiding each other are not options.

Ugh, sorry for the ridiculously long post. Thoughts?
Ugh, poor epi! I can feel your stress vibrating off the page, and it really sucks that you don't have any private space in which you can relax. I think you're being way too hard on yourself - living in such close quarters with someone would bring out the worst in anyone. You're probably also seeing the worst side of her.

Some thoughts:

1) My flatmate also likes to spread his things round the living room. The compromise we have is that I get to pile it all up on a chair that I call 'R's big pile of crap'. It gets it mostly out of my way, and it encourages him to put things away sooner so that he doesn't have to sort through the big pile when he's looking for something (the big pile does get periodically cleared away). The first time that I did this was in a fit of annoyance, but I have checked that he's ok with this and doesn't find it passive-aggressive. Could you agree with your flatmate that you can chuck her stuff onto her bed, for example? Or just do it.

2) Take the initiative with cooking and say "Do you want to share dinner? Ok then, I'll cook and you wash up afterwards. Do you want to watch what I'm doing so that you can do it next time?".

3) Write down instructions for cooking rice.

4) If she cooks ANYTHING, eat it all and say how nice it was.

4) Can you ask any of your friends to ask her out somewhere? Or does she have any interests that you can encourage her to pursue without you?

To be honest, the rule pot sounds like it would start more arguments than it would solve.

Here's a really good metafilter thread on relationship hacks, many of which deal with cohabitation issues.
Haven't got any wisdom to add, but just wanted to say

Thank you guys for the sympathy and wise words. Persi, you're right about the rule pot. I scrapped that idea after sleeping on it a couple days; I decided instead to just write down my own expectations just to clarify them in my mind, so whenever I feel pissed with my roomie about something I'd be better prepared to have a rational talk with her about it. She really has improved a lot, I'm just really sensitive to her flaws because I get so offended by the way she talks to me sometimes. I find it really hard to cut her some slack. We're talking through our problems and working on building an understanding with each other, but it's going to take a lot of work, because our situation is just so intimate in nature. We're getting to know each other in fast forward, backwards, even.
So our cycles have synced up now. We both got our periods this weekend. Let's just say it's been tense. She's been driving me insane with her condescending remarks and constant fishing for affirmation. Every time I admit that I don't know something (which she never does) she immediately jumps in with an emphatic ''what, you didn't know that?'' She constantly tries to find ways to compare herself favourably to me. The other day I even heard her asking our friend, who was helping us with our homework, if hers was better than mine. Ugh. She's just so childish and insecure and gross. All day, every time I heard her voice next to me, I fantasized about elbowing her in the trachea.
Oh man epi, you are in a bad spot! I wish I had some good advice for you, but when I had a reallyy bad roommate situation where my roommate turned into a downright mean bitch who was spreading rumors about me, my solution was literally to just not talk to her for an entire semester. It wasn't that I was being childish or whatever and ignoring her, it was just that I literally was boiling inside for months and it got to the point where she had hurt me so much that I just could not even talk to her. It was a really tense semester and I don't even know how I got through it.

Is there any way you could pull a mediator into this situation or something?? Someone who is a complete neutral outsider and you could explain everything to them and since this person is neutral maybe they could come up with some solutions that she would be more likely to follow? Or could you maybe schedule some time apart from each other in some way- where maybe you get the room from 12-3 and she gets the room from 3- 6 or something so you at least have a little time apart?

Ugh so sorry epi roommate troubles are the worst : (
Ugh. I hate this. I've been trying to get along with my roommate because I have no choice; I can either live with her annoying habits in a state of perpetual grouchy resentment or I can be nice to her and bear with her horrible roommate-ness as gracefully as I can. Although I hate the idea of compromising my living standards on her account and I often think she deserves to feel my wrath, I don't think I'll improve our living situation much by constantly voicing my annoyance with her. But my patience is completely gone and I'm finding it very difficult to be civil with her sometimes, even for my own sake. If I liked her it would be easier, but the truth is I don't particularly care for as a person any more than I care for her as a roommate. She's not a bad person per se, she's just not someone I'd ever be friends with and I find her incredibly irritating even in her good moments. To further exacerbate the awkwardness of this situation, she seems to consider me a close friend. How the fuck did this ever happen? Could this get any more awkward? Oh, yeah, that's right. We both kinda like the same guy right now.

Right now I'm fuming because my phone's nearly dead and she seems to have misplaced my charger when she unplugged it to plug hers in. She's not answering her phone, so I can't get in touch with her to ask her what the fuck she did with it - although I know that, even if I could get in touch with her, she would first deny ever unplugging it and would then have no idea where she put it. She does this all the time. I've got plans tonight and my phone is about to die. God. I fucking hate her, I swear.

ETA: it turns out my phone charger had gotten mixed up in my roommate's pile of crap that accumulates daily on the floor around her bed, and in a fit of annoyance yesterday I shoved the whole thing into a cupboard, thinking the charger must be hers since it was in her pile. So my missing phone charger was partly my fault. And I, as I seem to be doing more and more frequently these days, got completely bent out of shape over it. When I'm around her I hate myself almost as much as I hate her. I have to make some plans this weekend and get away from her for as long as possible or I'm going to lose my fucking mind.
Hmmm...Epi, your posts are giving me the idea that this young girl not only likes you, but maybe even (secretly) looks up to you in some ways, even if she's too insecure/busy trying to appear intellectually superior to admit it. Is there anyway that you could use this for your own benefit?

What would happen if you sat her down and asked if you guys could organize the room in order to have more space for doing _____(x)_____. I mean, instead of saying to her, "hey, can we do something about your mess", ask her how the two of you could organize the room for both your benefit. Ask her if you can keep an uncluttered communal area to be used for when you have friends over, etc. Would she be recepive to this?

And by all means, keep ear plugs for sleeping at night. I have this problem because my BF talks aloud to himself whenever he gets pissed off at the computer or what not. At 3a.m., I am awakened by him screaming, "JESUS FUCK" over and over again. I have no understanding of this; I can be pissed off and quiet at the same time, particularly when others are sleeping. Ear plugs are a goddess send.
Koffeewitch, you're right. She's a complicated, socially stunted girl with a really weird way of showing it, but she definitely does look up to me. I think she kind of thinks of me as an older sister.

I've talked to her many times about keeping the common areas neat and it seems to be gradually sinking in - the place is looking much better than it did a couple months ago. We've also been investing in various shelves and boxes and stuff for storage. She actually is trying, and I know I'm no picnic to live with, either.

I was wearing earplugs every night when I first got here, but they kind of irritated my ears and I kept ripping them out in my sleep so I gave up on them. Maybe I'll try it again and see if my ears can get used to it.

Well, the roommate saga continues. This week has been bad. She's just been jumping on every possible opportunity to prove her intellectual superiority and I've been jumping on every opportunity to put her in her place. In my irritation, I've started to get hung up on the idea of "deserving," which is dangerous and silly, I know. Every time my roommate makes some smart-assed, self-satisfied remark to me, or whenever I think she looks particularly stupid and pathetic, this monster rears up in me and says, "this idiot doesn't deserve to think she's better than you."

Another thing that started to really grate on me is the fact that my roommate, for reasons unfathomable to me, is considered to be an absolutely stunning beauty over here. I'm getting really sick of becoming invisible to the people I'm trying to be friends with because they become enamoured with my obnoxious roommate. They place a really high value on appearance in China. Despite the fact that her Chinese isn't as good as mine, she's not as aware of or respectful toward Chinese cultural differences as I am, she hasn't got a shred of common sense (did I mention that last week she asked me how to make tea?), she's messy and clumsy, her sense of humour is totally childish and flat, she's got incurable verbal diarrhea, and she's always making an embarrassing spectacle of herself with her loud voice, hand-waving and obnoxious donkey laugh, everyone's always fawning over her all the time. Constantly being passed over for this kind of person has not been good for my self-esteem. I know that I'm comparing us now and I know that this is turning into a jealousy issue, which is totally useless and unhealthy...but, like I said, it's been a bad week. In the past three days, I've had one shopkeeper call me fat and ugly thinking I didn't understand her and another compliment my roommate's skin right before telling me mine was bad while trying to sell us skin treatments. Then there was the crazy drunk security guard who approached us last week and started talking to us in his crazy Sichuan-accented toothless slur and told my roommate her Chinese was better than mine when I couldn't understand him - she ate that shit up and kept up a conversation with the guy for 20 minutes just to prove that she could, and kept bringing it up after with this smug satisfaction in her voice. There are days when I feel like no matter how good my Chinese is, no matter how well I integrate into the culture, no matter how capable I am of figuring things out for myself, no matter how much more intelligent my conversation is, no matter how pleasant I am to be around, I'm always going to lose out to her. People here see her luminous white skin, scrawny hips and narrow face, and they see her acting like an idiot and doing shit nobody would put up with in the west, and they think it's cute. It's hard not to be resentful.

The biggest trigger, though, is the situation with B, one of my good friends here. I was friends with him first, but gradually he started hanging out with us together and he clearly prefers her to me, despite the fact that he's more aware than anyone else here of her flaws. It hurts. And I fucking hate her for it.
((((((((((Epi)))))))))) Ugh. I have to admit, you've been REALLY good about things for a LOOOOONG time with this person. You have. I'd have gone crackers within the first two weeks & I'd have given her the business AP-stylee in no uncertain terms & probably made her cry. You are holding up remarkably well all things considered. I wish I had some good advice for you, but the only roomie I ever had was my mom & I spent way too many nights poised over her sleeping form with a pillow contemplating her end to be of any use to you. Know we are here & we are listening. We've got yer back!
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