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thanks all for your support for AA and myself and whitelightning and all of us.
I have cut and pasted your comments, suggestions, and whatever helps and printed it out and i have it on the wall next to my monitor. it really helps.
ex-2-b showed up last night. we have two cattle dogs that he has not had the time to train. just big 'ol puppies. he took one and gave it away last night. at least I hope it went to somebody. no way of knowing for sure. son is so upset and sad.
aunt agonist
aww jami. that sucks so much for you and your son. do you know what the plan is for the other doggy? if he is just going to take it away anyway, maybe you could contact a rescue group that could house him/her.

i agree on the thanks. i owe all of you a hearty hug and a big sloppy cyber smooch with putting up with my lame ass this past little bit.
hey, is anyone in here computer savvy? I think my outgoing type or email may be compromised. is there an online checker? any ideas?
I'm emotionally sick, but in fight mode.
so glad we can help, at least from here. but i don't know about email filters or whatnot. do you think he's getting to your inbox before you do? or seeing what you're sending out? i'm no lawyer but that doesn't seem legal.

stay there in fight mode! because seems you need to fight back, and he's not counting on you doing so. so sorry about the dog. why does your son think he's doing all this? be there for him, as you've been. i agree with aunt a about getting any other pets to a safer place.


aunt a, how are you today? your ass is no where near lame. seriously, you girls are amazing. and these are traumatic experiences. seriously... trauma. and you're handling it, with your sanity and dignity securely in place.
his girlfriend from what I could tell, knows computers. seemed a bit strange that if I emailed it, he was trying to beet me to it. I emailed that he started called her on his cell back in October. (OCTOBER!!!) and the next day he was trying to change to a separate cell plan. he could not think of this on his own.... but then again, there is the girlfriend... he was with her all day yesterday. not working, not with his son. ... that is when PISSED set in.
*popping in*

jami, what sort of email do you use? Is it a free account like Hotmail or Gmail, or is it through your ISP, like a roadrunner or earthlink or aol address? What exactly is going on? Is he accessing your personal account and reading your mail?

I'm only good with what I can see, but I do know a programmer and he might be able to help. This sucks so much - what a sleazebag. How low and pathetic can one person sink, huh?

Hey there. I like netscape email. I have since moved to gmail. Either there was a keylogger (maybe) or son mentioned my email password to husband and girlfriend (probable). I have since changed ALL PASSSWORDS. I emailed my mom that he had started seeing girlfriend since October, as it was on my cell statement. the next day he was in the store asking to go off 'our' acct to his own - then I could not see the charges. just thought it too much a coinsidence. and there were other times too, just had to act on it all.
thanks for the help. LOVE the BUSTIES ...~jami~
Phew. Okay, good. I know there are ways for people to get into one's network account and actually hijack their IP address, but if it's gmail and you've changed your password, that's cool.

I've been lurking. Y'all are amazingly tough and inspiring, especially in the face of dealing with such shitty, manipulative fuckards.
yep, changed everything... my lawyer was here today. and his. and him. his lawyer wanted my harddrive!! can you believe? apparantly they are entitled to it... but not right now. he wants to check my email! like - what's in there for pete's sake? and ex-to-B? ha. he doesn't even know how to turn on the computer. ohmygosh. what a mess this is. all because he wanted to cheat.
aunt agonist
jesus. i dunno why, but today is killing me. i think i had kinda hoped he would come to his senses about the friend thing and contact me to apologize. apparently i called it wrong again. god i miss him. sometimes it hurts so much i can't breathe. i miss him as a friend, i miss knowing that he cared about me. i miss our easy interactions. how did that all fall away? i had this misguided notion before that ours was some sort of epic romance that could stand in the face of any problems but that clearly wasn't the case. i just feel like i was wrong wrong wrong about everything and no matter how i try i don't know how to let it go. i wish he hadn't said everything about this girl. yes, i would have rather known that he was dating someone but knowing that it's long term or whatever is killing me. everytime i think i'm fine i'll be bombarded by memories and then i wonder if they meant anything at all to him. they couldn't have if he is acting like this. and if he's having the same feelings, the same great dates and new experiences with this girl. if i just knew the bare minimum- that he was dating someone new and that was it - i could have coped. but i know just enough to whet my masochistic appetite for more - i want to know if he looks at her like he looked at me, if they have better sex, if he strokes her hair to make her sleep and if he still writes songs for/about me or if i'm totally gone from his mind. honestly- i was never ready to just let him go. i think i thought that it would just be temporary but it is killing me not to contact him. he dosen't want me-period. i have to get over that but it is ripping me in two. fuck. this is hard.
I know AA. shit, it is hard. so what did you tell me? play the music loud, dance naked, make plans for yourself that you could not do before. eat. sleep. take care of yourself.
and post again.
thinking of you..~jami~
thinking of you both and sending (((hugs))) yep, that was some damn good advice!

i think your "masochistic appetite" is making you think he's having every bit of fun, every same emotion, times 100 with this new girl. you don't know that for sure. you are only going on what he tells you and your own imagination. maybe he wasn't strong enough or up for the challenge of maintaining a healthy relationship and opted for these easy solution, one that won't challenge him to be that good forever, one that will accept compromise. you're too smart to accept those compromises.

dance, music, etc. everything you suggested to jami. you won't miss him forever, and not nearly even close to forever. yes, maybe a while. but in the meantime do as you said.

jami, what is their justification for wanting to read your emails???????
My boyfriend of 15 months broke up with me this morning. I feel like a zombie who has crying jags. I feel dead inside. I hurt so bad, and the person I call when I'm hurting isn't the person I call anymore because he broke up with me. He wants me to find someone else who can give me everything I deserve: time, attention, a real chance at the relationship going somewhere beyond where it presently is. It's complicated, but long story short, he has four kids and full custody, a job, and, until this morning, a girlfriend. He couldn't juggle us all. And he knew how frustrated I was getting. So he let me go. But I would rather have been the one to make the decision. I don't think my well being is something he gets to decide. I'm a big girl, I could have decided when I needed to leave.

He asked, as he left, as I was sobbing, "Can I call you tonight to check on how you are?" And I replied, "No! Do you not understand how breakups work?" This is the saddest I've felt in over 10 years. He wants to be friends, and I know every guy says that, but he is very different from other guys. He truly means it. I mean, he's still friends with his exwife who cheated on him. But he doesn't understand that I can't just be his friend. Every ounce of me wants curl up and wither away right now. I can't believe I'll never see him again unless we accidentally run into each other somewhere. I can't believe 15 months together, and now nothing. I can't see the screen anymore because I can't stop crying.
es-2-B states that I have taken 'hundreds of thousands' of dollars. not.
I can account for every penny that I have and havd had.
court is on Wednesday.
he wants me 'vacated from the communal home'. he's sick
OHMYGOD!!!!!!!!!!! Girlfriend and husband just left the ranch. they were out on a jeep ride. can you believe this? my heart hurts. like PAIN hurt. I mean, WTF????? and there is nobody here to talk with. I am going crazy! here. on my property. with my husband. we're not even divorced yet. it's only been a month that I've had the restraining order. and he brought her to MY HOME???????????
aunt agonist
kelkeloo- i'm drunk so i probly spelled your name wrong. sorry. i'm sorry you have to be in this thread. i'm sorry it hurts. they say it gets better and it does. slowly, but it does

jami- i'm sorry that your ex is such an asshole. i know a thing or two about being disillusioned and sometimes that hurts worse then the hurt

i got into an argument with my sister. she said that the married bartender at the bar was flirting with me and i should take it as a sign that i can get a connection anywhere. i said that i knew it was possilbe to connect with people, and even maybe better than i connected with him but that i still WANTED him. that it didn;t make it less sad and that i was trying. she insisted on me giving an explanation for why i loved him. i told her that i love several people and don;t have an explanation for WHY i love any of them. i call list several things i love ABOUT them. same with him, but i love them independant of what they do or do not do for/to me. that i love them because they are my family. she likened me to my 10 year old nephew crying over a cookie. and said that if i really wanted the cookie we could go back and get it, but that it was clear that i didn't really want it b/c everyone else knew it wasn't good for me and that i didn't want to go back to get the cookie. she exlaimed ' i just don't UNDERSTAND it'. i said 'clearly' and she let me into her houes - where i'm staying and then drove off. i know that she's trying to help- but likening me to a child who dosen;t know what they want is insulting and untrue. i hate this. i'm going to sleep.
AA-Thanks for your kind words. I'm sorry you are going through your agony as well. I feel so lost. Last night I went out with friends and my mom. My mom is an alcoholic and got very very drunk and made an ass of herself. I was so worried and upset and Kelman (my ex..I hate those words) is the first person I wanted to call. I'm going to have to hide my phone from myself some days, I think. How do I go from being closer to him than any other human to absolutely nothing? And the thing is, he would welcome the call. He would help me through it. But I just can't call him. I can't do the nebulus, sort of broken up thing. I have to cut off all contact for months before I can even think of being able to move on. This is so painful. I forgot what it was like to hurt like this.

Jami, I'm sorry your ex is such an assclown. Mine at least isn't cheating on me. So I guess that is some consolation. Have you considered using them as target practice? Hmmm...maybe not such a good idea. Maybe with just a paintball gun?
hi kel, sorry you're here but glad you found this thread. you'll get some good inspiration from these strong girls.

are you sure you don't want to try to keep in touch with him, in this recovery period? do you think it won't help you get over him? i can see that, but maybe he can really be your friend thru this. maybe he can give you more explanations about why he did this. sometimes what we imagine is worse than reality.
aunt agonist
ok gals. i need some vibage. i did some thinking and realized that the thing that pissed me off most about this whole situation is that i had to give up my nyc dream for it. i decided 'fuck that!' and am trying to find a place to couch crash until i get my first paycheck to get a sublet in nyc (and ultimately a real apartment). i tend to do things in kind of a whirlwind so it's all kind of up in the air, but i can definately have my old job back and i can definately stay with my family in NJ if i have to until i can find a place (although that is like- the last option. it would be a bit awkward as we aren't super close). so i need luck/money/no drama/ vibage if you guys don't mind.
thanks in advance
aa, i send good luck etc. vibes,
as well as an offer of any help i can give with your move to the area. but just to be sure, is this what you wanted to do now? you can still have this dream but wait until it's the best time to go.
**delurks again**

hi AA - I say go for it!!! If it feels right, do it. Just jump right in. it might be challenging, but I think that in the midst of all this you really commit to taking care of yourself it will be great.

I picked up and moved within the month after I broke up with exboy. (seriously, probably like 3 weeks later) We didn't live together, but the apartment I lived in just held too many memories and it got almost physically uncomfortable to be there for me. I decided one day, "I'm going to move" and looked at Craigslist for places. I ended up finding a place that was in the exact neighborhood I wanted to be in, for just the maximum amount I could possibly afford - it was the first place I found and looked at. I could not believe it so I ended up looking at a few other places before I realized, yes, it was true I found the perfect place and called the landlord to see if it was still available. it was, and I ended up getting it!

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I think that when you really feel something is right for you to do, and you just go for it without giving it a second thought, things fall into place and I think they fall into place FAST. It made my head spin as to how fast that happened - I tend to just jump right in there, like you - but that was really quick. But I think that when we're in transitional times, if we are willing to move forward, it's almost like jet propulsion.

That's not to say it was easy. I went to a LOT of therapy, did way too much retail therapy and had to get out from under that, had to re-learn who I was (and ended up doing that through some crap dating / pseudo-relationship situations) etc etc. But that's what I mean about committing to taking care of yourself. I remember telling myself that if I broke up with exboy, I was going to do whatever it took to completely change my life for the better and to get through it. It was rough. But I'm glad I did.

so yeah, anyway. I say go for it!!

**re-lurks again**
AA - i say go for it. could it be any more painful/risky/scary than what you've been through already? i think it's a great idea...i've made huge changes like that before and have never regretted it.

jami - ugh, that really sucks. you need a safe space of your own, far away from those losers.

kel - i'm sorry to hear about your breakup. i'm dealing with the "friends" thing too and it is really hard. right now you need to focus on living moment to moment.

here's the news with me (warning: very long post ahead)'s been awhile, so i don't remember where i left off. i had been in contact with the ex, after moving out during midterms, and couchsurfing. i went over there and we had a little chat. he looked happy, at peace. he asked me how things were and i admitted that i've been lonely, sad and that it's weird being in a new place without him, etc. he was emotionless and so i flat out asked him, 'don't you think it's a little weird since we've broken up and i'm now living 2 blocks away?'. he said, nope, we're friends, just like how we were in the beginning (??). i got frustrated and reiterated that this is hard and that we're going through an adjustment period...he interjected: "there's no 'we' anymore" and concerning my loneliness said, 'i'm supposed to feel sorry for you?', basically laughing at me. some more lame things were said but he stood there outside on the patio (with 2 friends in the background) and told me that he's over me. done. i asked him if he was seeing anyone and he said that's none of my business.

a couple of days later...i get asked out by a mutual acquaintance and go out that night after work (after that shitty ass week). i went out and had a great night, great sex...i...felt...awesome that next day. i hadn't had a spring in my step like that in *years*. the next morning, ex had left messages on my phone. "get your stuff out of my house". i had finals *the next day* and we had agreed that i would move my stuff out after my exams. turns out, he found out about this date b/c he overheard his roommate talking on the phone to me about it and began calling people, trying to get info. he said, 'yeah, you need to get your stuff out today'. when i got there, he was sitting on the bed, just staring at me and acting weird. he said i was preventing him from hooking up with people by leaving my stuff there. when we had that whole blowout i had said i'd rather him not bring girls back to our former place with my stuff still in it...saying nothing about going to other girls' houses. anyway...i'm digressing. he sat on the bed and watched me dump all my stuff into garbage bags, following me around. i respectfully asked him to leave and he said, this is my house and your stuff and wanted to make sure i wasn't taking anything of his. my friend came over to help and tried to coax ex into leaving but he wouldn't budge. just watched us move everything. so fucking painful. but i have to admit, i was still reeling from the night previous. so i moved in an hour and that was that.

he asked me to bring over some stuff i accidentally took and do an exchange and when i got there he said he wanted to talk to me, as a friend. i was hesitant at first, but he seemed genuinely interested in talking about something...he wanted to know how i - as a friend, even - could fuck one of his friends. of all the people in this town, why his friend. (they're not great friends, but we are all in the same circle here). and why i think what i did was ok, because nobody thought what i did is ok. how i couldn't give him respect, etc. it was too much. i said how dare you judge my character and after a few heated words i walked out. he then handed me a letter a couple of days later telling me he won't judge me but that i always carried myself with the utmost class and sophistication and he can't understand why i'd hurt him like this, etc. and that i'm rubbing it in his face.

i can't take much more of this. what's worse, is that i spent the night at this other guy's place and when he gave me a ride home this morning, we passed the ex walking on the street. he saw us. i really need to move out of this area.

what kills me is that he's hurting...but when he stood there and laughed at me and told me we're done and that it's none of my business anymore...i had to accept a date with someone else and move on. just for my sanity...but maybe that's still compromised.

oh yeah...i got an A in my super-hard class.
yay white l! for the A and the sex! ugh, your ex wasn't behaving like a friend, so why should you treat him like one?!?!?!??? you can't just say 'we'll be friends' and not follow thru with the being friendly part of it. he is acting much more like a jealous boyfriend, of which he gave up the right! you didn't do anything wrong anyway. yes, maybe you need more physical space away from him. don't worry about him hurting. he's not worrying about anyone but himself. enjoy yourself.

Firstly, whitelightning, I have to say, Wow! You must be the first woman in the history of the world to have sex with someone and have it be entirely your responsibility, you minx! Oh, wait...

*sarcasm off*

Your ex is really showing his true colors here, isn't he? He considers you to be some sort of property, not a whole, separate person who can sleep with whomever she wants, whenever she wants. He doesn't think you have any class for being human, huh? How about poking his nose into the sex lives of two people so wholly unrelated to him? That's real classy, there, Mr. Nosy-pants. I'm picturing a giant baby throwing a fit because someone played with HIS special toy. Waa waa waa. His lack of maturity is really showing.

It's so easy for me to say, but just ignore him. No more contact. Any more "stuff" related meetings that need to take place? Send a friend.

Gah. Such a dick. Fuming for you. Asshats like these better be grateful that I don't have powers. Oh, man. I wish I had powers.

eta- You are not obligated to be friends with an ex. I've found it takes a whole lotta time before I can stomach talking to some of them and there's nothing wrong with cutting them off until you're ready. You don't have to be friends to be nice or just 'cause he wants to. It's totally your call.
Tomorrow is court day
the judge will decide where my son and I get to live. husband wants the home. he wants our son. he wants sole and complete power over our ranch. he wants all the money. he wants me to pay him a salary. he wants me out of our home.
and I know his employees (best friends) will be there to lie for him.
I will be alone.
think good thoughts for me please. and pray for me.
aunt agonist
i haven't had a lot of time on these boards since i made my nyc decision but i wanted to pop in to say
whitelightning - good for you. he is acting childish. keep on going with your bad self!!

jami- i'm sending my strongest vibes your way babe. just take this day to try to relax. drink some tea. take a bath. take a nap. listen to chilled out music. read a book. it will go well, but you have to take care of yourself right now.
((jami)) i don't know if this helps, but here's a quote by susan jeffers: "feel the fear and do it anyway". take care of yourself today and power through it tomorrow.

yeah, my ex is acting as if i did all this when we were together, no? he's trying to get all our friends to admit that i was wrong and unjust. they don't think so...i'm sorry he's hurting and i understand the anger and awkwardness, because i'm sure i'd be feeling it myself too if the tables were turned. but after all those things he's said to me...hopefully this will blow over soon.
today I'm going thru documents, getting timelines correct, doing my best
when I think of 'what ifs', I actually tell myself, outloud - STOP IT. works so far.
tomorrow I will prob freak. gotta stay calm.
and yes, i am listening to wonderful music.
oops double post
~~~~~~ass-kicking vibes for jami~~~~~~~~~
listening to music you love is a great way to feel like yourself, feel confident. do your homework, be prepared, and let's hope the judge can see thru the ex's and his friends' lies. you are smart and confident. he is neither.

aunt a, good to hear from ya! how are the plans going?
nickclick.... oh, thank you. I liked the smart and confident part.
let's believe that truth will filter thru.
Oh god, nickclick, don't give me any ammo I might be able to use to call him. I want to call him so bad it hurts. He is hurting, I am hurting. But I just can't see how talking right now will help me get over this. If I hear his voice and I can't have him too, I'll be physically sick. Today is the first day I've gone without sobbing. If I talk to him, I know I will melt down. I've always done the clean break up. Cut the ties, move on. This one is so hard, though. Neither one of us did anything wrong. Both of us still love the other. We just want very different things. I want a partner, someone to grow old with. After his exwife cheated on him and left him with his four daughters, he's just not ready to do the partner thing again. And he's been very honest that he will probably never be ready to do it again. He doesn't want to waste my life waiting for him to come to his senses. I think I should make that decision, but he made it for me. That's the only jerky thing he's done. I can't call him. And I told him not to call me, which he will honor. No, I think silence is best for now. One day he will be my friend, but not now.
kel - don't call him - space and time will only protect you

jami - how did it go??
I didn't call him. It's the little victories.

I hope things went well, Jami.
ohmygosh. now I know what his case is based on: complete lies. having employee say that I called her furious over their affair! HA She told hubby that I was leaving him, and that's what started all of this. He brought GIRLFRIEND to the court! he and his witnesses have already lied and then changed their story - under oath. this is all amazing. hope judge hears the truth. prob have court one more time this week and maybe 2 more next week. under court orders - nobody can spend over $250 without the approval of the other. he's spent $20,000 in a month!
but it's hard on son and me.
thanks for the good vibes!
aunt agonist
jami- i'm so sorry to hear how much crap he's coming up with. stay strong, girl. you can do this!!
jami- did you once say you and husband lived in another state before moving to ranch? are there people there who can testify to his and your characters? what's up w/ the employees- is he paying them to talk shit? seems beyond weird. i am still effected by my jerky ex. i wish i'd stop being angry and just forget about him.
well, the employees are employed, and if the truth came out, they will probably be fired. I've already the court asked that they be let go and new hands be hired. yes, used to live in another state. I do plan on having witnesses come. but this court date is supposed to be only to decide where my son and I live. it's not yet the divorce hearing. that could take a year. we'll be out of $ by then if he keeps this up
jami, you're doing great. what's ex's official justification for wanting you and son outta the house? doesn't he have somewhere else to live? hopefully the judge won't accept "i'm a big baby and don't want her to be happy" as good enough reason.
he doesn't have to have an explanation. he wants what he wants. and he ususally gets it.
aunt agonist
jami - i can't even imagine. you are an amazing strong and beautiful woman. keep fighting the good fight.
Husband did not have plans, let me take son for Saturday. we went to 'big city', had a blast together. like old times. Son was totally relaxed and it was wonderful. I even got some sun. smile.gif
it's strange - ex-2-B was even nice to me Friday. had to disarm him some, he thought i was lying to him, but once he believed me (?!?) he calmed down. not the way he has been lately. I'm kinda waiting for the storm after the calm....
How are you doing AA??????
Hi Ladies,

I find myself in this room, ...again, and how I wish I was somewhere else ...maybe the return of portions thread dry.gif

I have had a read of the recent posts, and I say kudo's to you all for showing strength, my problems seem trivial in comparison but I suppose the general mood is one of desertion, desolation, sadness and decay. I am been made to feel, once again, that the efforts one makes to make a relationship work, ar all to often in VAIN. How many times do I have to get my heart broken before the feeling subsides? ANSWER: it never does.
Oh how I wish for a superpower....not the man of steel, not a web-slinger who climbs walls, not an over sized green man who can crush rocks in his, none of that. I wish for the superhuman ability to, at the flick of a switch, turn off the basic human desire to have a significant other. To not want another human being to hold, care for, have care for you, hold hands, share intimacy, support, adore, trust and LOVE. It is incomprehensible that you do all of those things (and more in many cases) for someone, only to have them betray you, grow bored of you or whatever it is that they do to abandon their erstwhile intentions for you. Yes, I would like to rid myself of the requirement for desire and sharing with another human,.....I want to be able to tolerate, with ease, a lack of affection, no kisses and no hugs....
I have tried, throughout the course of my 'relationship years' to maintain respect and uphold passion; all so that I can enjoy the thrill of desire, the touch of a partners skin and a feeling of fulfilment..but I realise now, that I don't want that as a result of the hurt it causes when thay have gone, or in the process of damaging you whilst they leave.
I wish for the power to accept that I am going to grow old, will not have someone to 'have and to old' through the 'thick and thin' and I wish to be able to do that gracefully and spare myself the anguish of lonliness...

How my wishes have changed from those years gone by.

Here is a (((((HUG)))) for all those in a similar situation, I hope your pain subsides....

Kalevra... you write so wonderfully. I am in awe of you.
you see - it is not us. I am sure of this down to my core. We are still here and we all do want the same as you do. I believe it is them. they just plain get away with it. my x-2-b is 'disposable'. when he is done with something - out it goes and he moves on. didn't think it would be me. but upon examining our life - it has always been by his rules. he is the sole supreme authority. guess some of them can get that way.
I believe that we must have faith in ourselves. Trust in ourselves. Love ourselves. Then we can be open to one who truly deserves us. and despite what has happened to me, AA, whitelightning, and to you Kalevra... I do believe our true other half is there. somewhere.
we just got the wrong one (s) this time around.
not to say that I'm looking. I'm just getting thru day by day and trying to provide stregnth for my son.
(today was their father/son day - he won't leave the house, afraid to miss a phone call. father has not called and is not here. son is so sad)
We will get thru this. we will write in and kvetch and yell and scream and cry wondering where it all went wrong. I have. still expect to in the future. but not today. today I'm good.
take care and know that there are friends here to listen to you
Kalevra, I want one of those switches, if you ever find a way. The hardest part is I didn't know my last kiss from him would be the last. I ddin't know the last time my skin touched his would be the last. I didn't know the last time I'd feel like he was part of my soul would be the last. I could go on, but I won't. I miss him so much it's overwhelming and infuriating. I'm angry at myself for wanting him back. I'm furious that I'm afraid of being alone.
j'ai un vagin
my thought is that everyone does this...abandons, destorys someone, grows bored of them, everyone. to me there is not us and them, we are human and we act human. at most times the person causing damage really doesn't know. I've caused damage, not intentionally, but I've hurt someones heart and mine has been mashed many times too.
while it would be nice to have a switch that made us "feelingless", we can't, so relish in the learning experience because to me, the more times your heart is broken or you break a heart, you take something from it, you learn about yourself.
I thought a while ago that I would end up alone in the end of my days and that my life would be miserable, and it will if I let it.
You do have to care for you, love you and take time for you, like Jami said. Learn about yourself, try to understand why you feel the way you do. SHould things really hurt so bad or are you LETTING them hurt you that bad due to some other condition. I've done it to myself, make a small pain much bigger, so much that I forgot the true cause of hurt in the first place.
it sucks, pain sucks, emotions suck when they are negative. so I move mine to a positive light in every moment I can...things get better when you let them.
j'ai un vagin (my French is bad, but I think that means 'I am a vegetarian wink.gif )

You make some valid points, but I have to defend my actions based on the simple fact that I have learned to respect and cherish the feelings of others, and I don't believe I have ever fallen out of love with someone. I have never walked away from a relationship without trying my damndest to find out where the problems are (yes, I do look to myself to see if I have been the one to be the cause) and hopefully rectify them. On more than one occasion I have tried to rekindle a relationship where infidelity on the part of my GF has been the cause, in both occasions it was involving booze (relationship-killer extrodinaire) and this I cannot tolerate, it is a weak excuse and the first thing I did was turn to myself to find out if I was the cause, and as it turns out, there were latent feelings for someone else that let the booze excaserbate...I ask if there is something going on, and the answer is a stern "No, how dare you insinuate that!"...not knowing of course that I already know......You have hurt me enough, why do you want to hurt me more? This is what makes me say the things I do....I could never cheat on someone and live with it, if I love them enough to share all, then I could not live with myself and 'fess up..simple....

Other cases are where someone gives you the...'I need space' thing.....that is a clear sign to me they want out, has anyone here ever gone off to find their space, and then returned....statistically I would have to say very low percantages...I suppose in the man's domain we don't register emotions as well, but that whole scenario sounds like a cop-out to me.....then I have to sit around wondering if the person will ever come back, will they ever want the same thing or feel the same feelings for me.....the waiting goes on until the "I've met someone else' issue crops up. Was I wasting my time sitting around, should I have moved on? Were you keeping me at an arms length until you were ok or not ok, and wanted to carry on/break off??? I am a cynic, but I do keep a positve, open mind....I suppose I am just tired of the emotional games where I get my head spun, my heart broken and leave with a low expectation of whats to come next...

I try so hard not to hurt the one's I love, ....they say nice guys never win, and I am inclined to believe that....some girls don't want nice, they want EXCITING, MYSTERIOUS & BROODY.....and yet so many have said later, "I wish that nice guy would come back in my life"

I am moving on, I just wish I could turn that switch off at my discression in order to avoid the same mistakes a BS-filter of sorts tongue.gif

The sea of love eh....on towards the sea we go!

I feel better now wink.gif
j'ai un vagin
hehe, vegetarian wink.gif

booze, evil thing...tsk. besides all you said about that, it (booze) makes almost everything irrational. well, the thoughts of the drinker i mean. its a rough thing to handle on the other end and really I have to admire you for trying to rationalise in that instance. i ended a relationship of my own, drinking it away. i was dealing with my own issues i could not express to the other so every time he was around, i got drunk, so i wouldnt be mean. i dont do that anymore because as ive grown and had a few relationships, ive learned the alcohol never helps, well unless you want it to help chase people off. sorry. smile.gif

as far as the subject you brought up with "needing space". im sure that it often indicates a decay in a relationship, sometimes for me it is that the excitement wears down and the "honeymoon" phase is over so now back to reality, but its not an end for me. this can be was with me a few times and is right now too. my relationship is suffering because my man ALWAYS wants to be around me, he hates working because he cant be with me. hes always touching me, always kissing me and for me, that is adding up to too much, im very independent but he still consumes my energy all the time. so i asked for "space", a little breathing space really. i dont want to grow tired of his affections but the blanket is going to smother me. I know what im trying to express is a bit different than what you were pointing out, it can also be as such. after i placed my request for more space i got the feeling he thought i was rejecting him. i appreciate your thoughts on this Kalevra smile.gif this might help to explain his current moodiness with me.

ha ha and i think too, most girls don't want the nice guy...i have heard it time and time again. but i hope if the nice guy does finish last, to that girl he will be the best thing. I dont like the way the nice guys are always treated though, it messes anyone up who tried to have an honest loving relationship and for the other to not be in it for the same reasons, or "just playing along" for whatever benefit they might gain.

anyway, yeah, my best BS filter is to be blunt to a fault almost. i speak my mind, ha ha, so you'll either love me or hate me. it filters out most of my BS..

big hug for ya! =) big hug for kelkello too, i hate that part of the breakup, missing them and being angry about it as well. you will not be alone


I see you too have been a victim to the booze.....I know it's irrelevant, but do you think the relationship coulda been resolved had you not got stuck in the bottle (I am not calling you an alchoholic by the way, I like smidge myself from time to time)? I often wonder how different life would be if there were no vices like booze and drugs,.....people would not meet as frequently (dutch courage, the uninhibitor) and there would be less reasons to fight.....mmm, a point to ponder.

I am guilty of being a smotherer, at least I acknowledge it huh! I have been told in the past.."Stop doing that, nuzzling my neck, kissing me....yadda yadda" and sometimes it is said in a nasty nasty way, but when I step back and look at it, I suppose the other has to be in that sort of mood too, you come home from work happy and smiling, ready to provide some affection, and the other has had a day from hell and just needs some pensive, alone time......I suppose it is all in the ability to read your SO and figure out how they have been......asking them would be a simple start, I have learned that.... dry.gif

I still wish I had that switch though..... wink.gif

...and I AM that nice guy...a lot of my mates a real casanova's and although they think they are studly in the fast love programme, word on the street from some of the victims I know well, is not to flattering...I like being caring and's in my blood, I give to others, even if it hurts me....this is what makes my susceptible to pain.

I am still mooooving on
aunt agonist
hey all --- so here is an update - i'm in nyc. i'm like thisfar away from homeless person broke, but i'll be getting paid in a week and i have some pans in the fire with regards to finding a place. my stomach pretty much eats itself a little bit every time i go within 5 blocks of his work or places we had dates but i'm pushing through. he still hasn't contacted me (big suprise!!! pfft.). he dosen't know i'm in new york (because what i do is no longer his business). i still wish we could be friends. and i am really upset that i feel like i can't trust my gut any more. his decision blew me out of the water. and the way he handled himself afterwards suprised me with each new shitty thing. and now when i get a twisting in my gut that says 'something is gonna happen today' - i don't get excited anymore, if anything i get scared. but more often than not i don't feel anything. i get angry at myself for ever thinking that things were going to be good or trusting my gut on anything. i tell myself that my gut has only proved to have dirt fucking kicked in my face, so it's not a good indicator of anything other than acid reflux. i thought he would want to be friends. i thought he would't leave. i thought things would go well. i thought so many things and i was wrong about all of them. i always trusted my gut- and on the rare occasions when i didn't - i later found that my gut response was the right one. and now i feel like i can't trust anything - b/c he failed me. my gut failed me. apparently i failed. today is kicking my ass but i'm at work and around friends all the time so i have to keep it together even though my tummy is a pit of acid. blech. today sucks ass. i want it to be done.
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