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aunt agonist

it will get better. not to be harsh, but i think you know too, that you going over there isn't helping. if he's going to apologize, he'll do it in his own time and he'll need time to think away from you to be able to look at what he's done. don't worry too much about what your friends will think, but maybe use them as motivation to hold you accountable (like in weight watchers- you don't beat yourself up if you eat a whole cake, but maybe if you know that you will be held accountable to it in a meeting, you will only eat, like,half a cake). it's hard and everyone has to find their own way to get through it. you'll flounder before you find the right way, and even when you've found what you know is right, it will still be hard. it will get better though. it will ebb and flow and sometimes knock the wind out of you, but you have to take care of you first- and if you're sobbing when you come home, this isn't helping you.

just leave it. rent LOTS of movies. everytime you want to go over see if you can distract yourself for 10-30 minutes (30 is best in my opinion), usually by the time those 30 are up the desperate urge will pass. it's like quitting smoking. also - don't pull an aunt.agonist (i'm way guilty of this, but when i don't do it it helps). don't spend your distraction time thinking about it. like, what you'll say or why you need said thing. if there are things you really need, maybe you could make a list, and everytime you think of something, add it to the list. after a few days, go over the list when you're not desperate to go over there, and think about whether the things on the list are important and necessary right this minute. if they are- double check to see if there is anything you missed an e-mail the ex to have him get them ready perhaps in a box- keep it short though!. . and leave them just inside the door. if they aren't necessary this minute- give yourself some time to recoup first.

as ever- trust your gut. feel free to disagree with everything i've said. get lots of kitty snuggles and feel better soon!

Jami- how are things?
oh, what a day. I am beat, but I thought I'd check in, Busties.
no lawyers present, so it was a he said/she said fiasco. he of course denied everything I said in my statement. and I got sucked into it and replied to what he had said. should have had writtin on my tablet "restraining order" so tell of my fear rather than his lies. he admitted to taking 5 guns, the deputy took them into evidence storage 'cause he didn't trust what I'd do with them. gee, they Were in a locked gun safe. leave 'em there! and he denied ever hitting me. judge did not bring up the children, so I didn't ether. worst part is, judge is going with his taking of the business checkbook and ordered that he come to the home for one hour twice a week to pay bills and look at statements. nothing is to leave the home. yeah, like I see him obeying that.
creepiest of all... I went home (passed him heading home -that's how he gets to parent's house) to tell son that his dad could now call him and take him on the weekends. then I went back to town. I took my $3,000 checking out or 'our' bank and moved it across the street to another bank. tried for a credit card, too, while I still can. while at the bank, he DROVE by, I SAW him. then, he turned around, 'cause I saw him again! heading towards the truck that I was driving. he was fliping FOLLOWING ME! no proof of it, nobody knows what the truck looks like or what he looks like in the bank. guess I should keep a pocket camera with me. that's against the restraining order, but I can't prove it.
he's not to harrass, belittle or otherwise talk bad to be. know he cannot do it at all!
I am so tired, it's off to bed.
(((jami, aunt a, whitel)))) how are you all feeling today?

jami, do you have a digital camera that you could carry with you, in case he follows you again? make sure the date is correctly set on it. also, how was your talk with eric?

that's a good idea about carrying around the digital camera.

as for my developments, nothing new really. i haven't gone back there today (yay!) and my friends are telling me he's really miserable. i'm sorry he's feeling bad but i'm still angry over everything.

tonight i have a midterm on which i have desperately been trying to focus. the topics are particularly difficult and i'm very nervous and discouraged - it's essay questions i'm worried about. all about how urine is produced in the body, concentration gradients, solutes, ions, metabolism, etc. we're given the essay questions beforehand, so there's really no excuse not to ace these tests, despite their difficulty. but my brain is tapioca at this point.

i wanted to go to tai chi today but i think i should be in the library studying. we'll see. this will all be over (for now) after tonight.

how's everyone else doing?
aunt agonist
((whitelightning)) ((jami))

sorry not to have any original ideas, but the digital camera thing is a great idea. even if you don't catch him at it, hopefully him seeing you take a picture of him will scare him enough to stop. and if you are in public- make a racket if necessary. go to the manager of the establishment and say 'my ex-husband is following me. i have a restraining order. he's out there in the truck *point at husband* please call the police", even if hubby leaves before the police get there, then you have a witness who can describe hubby and the truck and the police can pay him a visit later.

good fo you whitelightning for not going over! don't worry too much about how he's feeling- it's tough b/c it's habit to care about him by now, but you really need to work on you now. you can't do anything to help him at this point, so don't worry about it.

i'm doing ok. i'm still sad. i still miss him. i was telling my friend, it almost feels like , (bad analogy ahoy!) do you remember when you are little and you totally believe in santa clause? and then you get older and you hear rumors, or start having doubts. but you still believe, right? and then one day, you find the presents in the closet. or you catch your parents. or you hear them. and it's crushing. you want to go back to believing in the magic, but there is no way that you can once you know. you can believe in the idea, and think back fondly on it, but that's pretty much it. from that point on, christmas has totally changed for you. that's how this feels to me

just sad sad sad. i still want him back - well kind of. i want to experience the snuggles and the inside jokes again. i want the hopefulness that we had, i want the good parts of the historic us , but the reality of that is that i want something that dosen't exist anymore and i know that. i think that's why it feels safe to want it. it's like 'i want to believe in santa clause AGAIN- but with the same conviction i had as a child' . he's changed. and it looks like mostly for the better, but we are just so unhealthy together. i hate that we have to make it a clean break. i have to believe that we'll see each other again (but i think we both have to learn to grow without the other person now. i told him 'gimme a call in several years'. it breaks my heart every time i think that i won't be able to see him, but that's life.

i have been toying with an idea. it's maybe awful but hear me out. i have to go to nyc several times over the next couple of months to finalize everything. i'd like to go up once when the divorce is done, just to have dinner with friends and 'celebrate' the end of this endless paperwork, and thank the people who helped me. i think (and there's still a few months to go, so i could think differently then) that i would really like to ask him out for a drink just to say goodbye. we've been through so much recently, and i just don't want our last memories of one another being me , banging my suitcases down the stairs and weeping, refusing to look at him, and him looking at me, shamefaced, as i walked away. i think our break up is heartbreakingly, devastatingly sad, but i also think it's necessary. do i hold out hope that one day we'll get back together? yes. but like, in several years once we have both moved on and grown. it's not possible with us being who we are. i think of it almost like a fairytale - and i'm aware that we may not even meet again after this. not anytime soon. it wouldn't work (getting back together in the forseeable future) for me or for him. i just would really like one, amicable, bittersweet lunch or coffee meeting. so we can both say ' i love you, but i'm setting you free. no hard feelings. good luck in life. i'll miss you'. i realize that decision is not mine alone, but do you guys think it is an awful idea? it's not as if we'll have sex (he's dating someone else) or try to get back together (we live several hundred miles apart, have agreed to cut contact after this is over with, and he'll be moving to the UK) or even shout at each other (we've done that already). i think it will hurt a little, but i really think it might be worth it. i'm trying not to focus on that, and instead to focus on the stuff i can do now to get the divorce over amicably, but do you guys think it's an AWFUL idea?? if so, why? if not, why not?

can meeting with the ex ever be good for you? does it give you closure, or open up old wounds?
I did it.

Sunday afternoon. Happened suddenly actually and I wasn't planning on it this soon, but we started talking and well...we ended up seperated. It was strangely adult and it went a lot smoother than I thought.

I have this huge weight lifted off my shoulders, but I feel incredibly sad. Sooo sad.

The good thing about this? He realized that he needs to go to a therapist for his anger issues and started looking for one today. THAT made me happy. Very happy.

There is an upside to the moving on thing I guess.
hello all, ~jami~ here. awful weather, had to drive almost 3 hours to get a camcorder and a security camera. it's one of those tiny things, but the audio does not work... thinking of having the camcorder in my pocket for sound, and the security camera for video. as long as he doesn't see it. hubby gets to come in and pay bills tomorrow. yeah, looking forward to that. and afterwards he's gonna meet with son after school for lunch. either he'll try to brainwash eric, or he'll completely blow things up. hope he leaves eric alone.
oh, and I got disposable cameras, the digital ones sometimes take too long to turn on and take the photo.
oh, and the talk with eric went ok. he was pissed at first, but i calmly said that this was the first step in the divorce, and it had to be done. I know it's a lot calmer around here now, and I know he feels it too.
MJ-glad things worked out
AA- thanks for the idea on pointing him out. wish I had thought of that. how are you today?
whitel- how ya doin? come email us instead of going over.
phew, a lot of brave chicks around here!

jami, i only suggested the digital camera so the time/date would be embedded in the digital file, and so you'd also know instantly that you got the pic. the camcorder will work great, and aunt a's suggestion about pointing him out is genius. but hopefully such a thing won't happen again. glad things have calmed down a bit and good luck today when he comes over.

MJ, good for you for making a positive decision and sticking with it, but certainly expect to feel sad. it's not a happy thing to see a life for once you had hope is not working out as planned. and yes, the upside is that soon your life will be full of hope!

aunt a, i remember feeling quite the same after my breakup, which is nostalgic, and i'm a sucker for it. but i realized that was what made me hold on for longer than i shoulda, with thoughts about how he was my first love, about vacations we spent together and little special traditions, etc etc etc, and how could i ever have those things without him or with another person? i even made myself come to terms with the idea that i may not ever love someone they way i loved him or ever fall so deep again, buuuuut our relationship was not good for me. here's another bad analogy (ahoy!) - you eat nothing but ice cream and cookies for years, and while it may taste really good once in a while, it's leaving you unhealthy. i was willing to give up sweets and settle for broccoli. meanwhile, i found some delicious frozen yogurt; he's sweet and good for me! ugh, that was too corny, even for me. anyway, you get my point? i thought i nevvvvvvver have that again, and i do, and it's so much better without the worries of how he's potentially compromising my life in so many ways.

but i think it's okay for you to see him in a few months. with time inbetween now, and around a few bitter moments, i'm honestly happy he's doing okay. i agree it's nice not to think of your last contact as all fighting and hating, because that wasn't indicitive of your whole relationship.

btw, sorry if i'm coming off as all words-of-wisdom dispenser of advice, just that BUSTies and other friends were what got me thru that super-shitty time after and i hope i can return the favor a little. i remember feeling like i was getting punched in the stomach, over and over again, and i'm living proof that it works out for the best, and it's worth the pain.
aunt agonist
nickclick - i LOVE your advice! and your wonderful analogies! i want a fro-yo person one day!! (i am totally gonna use the fro-yo analogy one day). i'm so glad you think it's ok (the possible meeting thing) everyone i know is all 'oh NO! don't meet up with an EX'. but i think they are thinking that it will be more of a 'hey lets meet and get freaky deaky' or 'hey lets meet.. don't you still LOVE ME?!?!!?' or 'hey lets meet -- i hate your guts' when really what i want is a 'hey lets meet-- i care about you deeply. have a good me if you want in several years. *hug* *walk away*' kind of a thing. good to hear that there is one person in the world who dosen't think i am unhealthy and weird for wanting it! it's great to have people who understand.
AA - i don't think it's unhealthy; i think it's mature. it seems as if you're both on pseudo-speaking terms anyway and i think one last "goodbye for now" can certainly help. i did it, but it was about a year and a half after breaking up with an ex (who i was with for 7 years). we met for dinner and i was very nervous because i knew we had a destructive relationship and i didn't want to get suckered into my old ways. at this point, i was already living with my most recent ex. anyway, i flew back home for a holiday, we went out for dinner and kind of did a catch up thing...i ended up saying things that i needed to get out. how hurt i was over our breakup, how painful certain things were. i just needed closure, which we hadn't had up to that point. it was a messy breakup and then i split town. but i got it out, he said, sorry you were hurt and it finally felt done. but enough about me! my point is...if you feel you need to do it and can do so without rehashing or opening up new cans of worms, then my suggestion would be yes, go ahead and meet him.

i really like that santa claus analogy. it is exactly how i feel right now.

mj - i'm sorry to hear about the breakup - but it's good that he's recognizing his need for therapy. sounds like you're both being good friends to each other.

well, i haven't gone over there but my ex came over last night to give me something. he wrote me a nice letter; he wished me all the happiness i've made him feel over the past few years and if he's been too blind to see it, then to forgive him. he said even if it is over, he remembers all the good things about our relationship. and that he may have crapped out when i needed him the most (not in those words). he also gave me a CD of sad songs, which i won't listen to for a very long time. and a little present too. he looked terrible. i miss him.

i took my exam last night and it was hell. but whatever...i feel so numb anyway right now.

jami...good to hear eric is being understanding.

thanks aa wub.gif

hi whitel, sounds like you had a pretty good visit with your ex. yes, don't listen to that CD! you've cried enough tears and i'm sure there's more to come without that extra help!

are you all done with exams, or more studying right now?
sorry for double posting..... i found out last night (goddamn myspace and the people that post their every move and emotion on it!) that my ex's new girlfriend is moving into the apartment we used to share. my apartment that i chose and cleaned and decorated and lived in for 5 years. please make me stop being bothered by this. i really did like the apt. and the town it's in. is that it? and i are planning a move for this summer and i am wholeheartedly excited about it. whadda fuck?
nickclick... know what you mean. hubby was fixing up 'our' home, as he was preparing it to be 'his'. (theirs if you count the girlfriend) it's just a house to me now. that, and he asked the judge for permanent custody of eric, and that I be booted out to my mom's trailer. (she moved out when I got the restraining order)
yesterday he was to be here to pay bills. never showed. but after his and eric's after school lunch, eric hands me a paper -this is what dad wants. he wants the bills, w-4's, list of insurance companies and contacts and when bills are do. I'm his @&% secretary still????? and eric was different since he found out that he was gonna have lunch with his dad. quiet and withdrawn, back on his computer again. this is not good for him.
man, i really hate myspace for that reason! i really hate being able to find out about everyone's stuff! hate it hate it hate it! my ex is on it, so is his current gf, and that's how i found out they were together. i can easily look them up right now to see what's going on but i can't- no point! it's so hurtful! i wonder if people mean for it to be so hurtful? sorry, nick, i guess i'm not helping you here, only validating that it sucks. sorry. i guess you can write about how much it sucks here, maybe that will feel better?

i feel gross lately (not very attractive). getting my hair lightened this weekend, can only hope it will make me feel better. they say post break up, you need to do things for yourself, so..
nickclick - i too loathe myspace. a few years ago, i had a profile on it and then had a nervous breakdown at work, obsessively checking my ex's profile and reading all the testimonials he and his new gf would post to one another. barf! then a co-worker said - very matter-of-factly - 'why don't you just take yourself off that thing?' it was like, oh...i never thought of that. and so i did. i felt much better after that, even though i constantly reconnoiter myspace for dirt on people. rolleyes.gif and i don't think it's weird to feel strange about your old apartment and who's going to be in it, etc. it was once your home and now it's different...let yourself feel it and i think you'll be past it soon enough.


caroline, i often feel gross. after i got booted out of the house the other day, i got my haircut. it feels so much lighter - highlights should be nice!

i'm not doing so well today; it's amazing i got up to check my email, etc. my ex called at 2am but didn't leave a message. i. don't. want. to. talk. to. him. i've got more important stuff to deal with. i gotta go down to social services office tomorrow to see if i can get food stamps, etc. so maybe it's better to be in the dumps and have a million and one things to think about and plan because that will keep me from talking to him!
ex-to-be went to the bank yesterday. closed my business charge card that I use for: doctor, meds, fuel, dog food (not pers stuff) and this means that he knows that I took the $ that was in savings.
I had statement copies ordered, no charge. today I have a charge on my acct from yesterday, and the bank manager has not yet returned my call to see if the copies are in yet.
cold chill running thru.
(((jami))), (((whitelightning))), (((caroline_no))) thank you, thank you, thank you. yes, i'll be past it soon, with the further time and space i put between myself and that place.

jami, do you have other funds/cards/accounts for those things? also, unless you don't want him to come over to pay bills, which i'm sure you're not looking forward to seeing him, you don't have to gather a damn thing for him. and i don't know anything about these laws, but how does he have any say in where you go if he's the one leaving (and cheating) ? those seem like terms to work out after a divorce, especially the custody thing. seems like he's purposely trying to hurt you, and not thinking what's best for your son.

whitel, yes keep busy; besides keeping your mind occupied it will get things done and you'll feel accomplished and independant.

caroline, great idea, enjoy your new look!
~~~hot sexy hair vibes~~~
Nickclick.. I have a restraining order that the judge modified to let him in the home 1 hr, 2 times a week. he stole the business checkbook, and for the past 25 years, it's been me to do the business accounting. and since he had the checkbook, judge let him keep it. (good 'ol boy times over here)
I had my bank manager make copies of my old statements. when I went to get them, ex was there, talking to the manager. had to turn around and leave. I could tell he was having a long conversation... once he left, I got the statements. know ex got the copies too even tho I was the one who ordered them...
I had to make a left turn to get out of town. he was there, on my left heading straight. I didn't even look at him. he's still pissed 'cause I'm using 'his' truck. my car doesn't start, after he 'fixed' it.
My boys told me to listen to my music. I turned my stereo, and the tunes are so sweet.

well, i just ran into my ex. he said he missed having me around as a friend. i told him i was too angry to talk to him, since the whole getting kicked out thing. he said 'yeah, i wanted to talk to you about the word on the street.' according to him, he told me he would sleep on the couch for the weekend (!!!) and that when he woke up the next morning, i was gone. i heard him say he'd sleep on the couch for the *night* and when i said 'give me some time...' he read it as 'give me an indefinite amount of time.'

i'm so sad and confused right now. i could have stayed a couple more days, maybe been able to study, who knows. i got a 78 on my exam. i was freaking over the past week, basically over miscommunication??

i don't know what to think. we agreed to talk later. i still feel like he's being insensitive.
(whitelightning) sometimes they believe their own lies.... and that is .not. miscommunication

update from Idaho...
seems my husband can pick 'em. his trusted employee (part time) pushed his own mom and he choked then threatened his sister with a gun! sister has a restraining order on her brother and her mom.
husband knew this and told our son. then told him not to tell me.
mrs.employee and her hubby (the full time employee) came to the door and asked if there were another key to my car. ??? I asked why he tried to start the car. he said that my husband asked him to and he wanted the car.
I told him that the ranch was still 50% mine and it was not cool to come here and try to take my car without telling me first. after all, come morning, I would have called the police. Brit smiled sweetly and informed me that they would try to jump start it in the morning. I told her to stay away from my car. It's up to my husband to get it fixed. now he's got people trying to steal my car?????
I do NOT want him here tomorrow. he wants docs that judge says he can't take.
oh, and girlfriend #3 is 'advising' him to put locks on the gas tanks.
this is all insane.
((jami)) jesus f'n christ. is there anywhere you can go that's far away? i live in oregon, so i'm slightly familiar with what goes on in idaho.

my ex just left. he came over to talk and it ended up in disaster. we talked about how much we miss one another and then it got into money issues. we agreed (tentitively) that we helped each other out the 3 years we were together, through bouts of unemployment, etc. he point blank asked me 'what do you want'. because i'm drunk right now, i slurred 'i want a home!'. i want my own place that i can't get kicked out of (he said i didn't get kicked out...). i want my own place where i can't be told what to do; i want my own place that i have control over my life etc. he said 'YOU HAVE TO EARN YOUR OWN PLACE'. i blurted out 'you need to leave. you don't get it.'

so he left and of course, i called after him. my body blurted that out. tell me i did the right thing. while i'm still drunk, that is...

take care, everyone.
Jami- Your situation sounds like a nightmare. I wonder if you can speak to multiple lawyers to hear all your options? At the very least, it sounds like you need a permement restraining order and/ or have absolutely no contact with this guy without having your lawyer present. I can't imagine what you are going through. I'm getting worked up reading your posts!

Whitelightning- After all is said and done, do you want to be with this guy??

I got a text message from my ex bf and I read it (dumb). It was an innocent message but..I can not reply, right? No sense, no need, I do not owe him anything. Hate feeling tempted even though what am I gonna say? There's nothing to even say.
aunt agonist
jesus. it sucks for you right now, but you are kicking ass!! i am so impressed by how strong you're being. damn right! stick up for yourself (sounds like you are already doing that though!)

((whitelightning)) um, you have to EARN it???? fuck that guy. you need him out of your life. that is a creepy controlling thing to say.


caroline- what would be the benefit of replying? is there one? i'm not asking rhetorical questions, i'm just trying to figure out if there is any advice i could give. it sounds like you already know what to do here though

i'm doing better. a little wobbly today. i have to go through divorce stuff and actually write the paperwork this weekend. that is gonna SUCK ASS. it's so much harder now that he's being nicer. i realized after i got off cloud 9 that the hostility ended that just b/c i accept his apology, it dosen't mean i forgive him, and it dosen't mean that changes the situation (or changes the outcome, anyway). which is sad. it was almost easier when he was pushing against the divorce b/c it forced me to react the other way and to be like ' you don't want it? well now i REALLY want it'. still trying to sleep. not working at all. but hopefully soon.
((whitelightning)) you were right.... he needs to leave... you need a safe home. you need a place where you are you. earn? he is nuts. stay away for your own sanity. your instincts were right. leave.
((caroline)) delete the message. listen to music to let your spirit soar.

as for me... just got off the phone with the lawyer. I do have to meet with husband, it's the court order. BUT, I can request a sheriff officer to be at the home for my own protection. he is NOT to remove items from the home, even if he wants them. and I don't have to give him information. he can get that thru the lawyers. I was told to follow the court orders and look good. by him having our son pass demands to me and withhold information like the employee is a pistol waving maniac - does not look good on his side.
and i was told to videotape everything... down to an accounting of what's here on the ranch. did that with a camera, but I'll do it with the camcorder, too.
he'll be here in three hours
oh (((jami)))), take each day as it comes, things sometimes gotta get worse before getting better. and they will get better, we promise!

i agree with caroline about getting a second opinion or a better lawyer to keep psychoman away from you, and also about getting the hell away from there. sounds like he keeps pulling tricks out of his hat in ways to try to make shit difficult for you. oh and i agree with aunt a that you kick ass!

caroline, as innocent as his message may have been, he's probably fishing to see what and how you're doing without coming out and asking, youknow, to see if you sitting around crying your eyes out all day. i wouldn't reply, and let his imagination get the best of him.

whitel, glad you kicked him out for that stupid remark. i'd suggest being sober if there's a next time you see him tho!

aunt a, yes be rational and keep the reasons you want divorce fresh in your mind. you can keep the good memories for a later date, but right now you know you're doing the right thing for yourself.

i often thought that when i wanted to leave my ex, that if he was just a total asshole all day long, it would be much easier to leave. he was mostly nice, lots of times we had fun together, but in general he was making me miserable. just because you get along with someone doesn't mean he should necessarily be your life partner. took me a loooong time to learn that!
Whitelightning-GARR!!! i just wrote you in the depression thread saying that i want to yell at your ex, and now i really do even more! how DARE he say you have to earn it???!!! is HE earning it? I can't believe he is defending his kicking you out by saying that somehow you don't even deserve a decent home!!!!!

god, he really has NO CLUE. sad.gif
Hi Jami, I am sorry you are going through so much right now. I just want to give you a heads up. If you are going through a time like this, use BUST to vent, BUT, this is the internet and you may want to refrain from using your name and your son's. You never know who is on here and some really f*ed up things have happened to BUSTIES in the past in their real life (not internet) going through similar situation because of net candidness.

I just want to keep BUST a safe and happy place for you. Take care ((((jami)))))

yah, good call GGG-so true, especially in these scary situations.

thinking of all of you.....
aunt agonist
you guys. this is really hard. i feel like such a wuss b/c so many people have it so much worse, but i was trying to do the divorce paperwork, and i just don't want to. i don't want to be divorced. i hate this. i hate how easy it is for him to forget me. i never would have believed him capable of that. i know i should forget him, but it is impossible. he is still the one i want to call when something good happens or when i need to vent. i miss him. i miss him so much sometimes i feel like i can't breathe. i'm going. and i'm putting one foot in front of the other, but every time i look up and see how much further i have to go i just want to ...stop. or go back. or something. but i can't and this is ripping me in two. i miss him and it kills me that he dosen't miss me. he's not thinking about calling. he's got someone else and he's happy - which is great. but i always thought i would be able to make him happy if i wanted to badly enough. i just feel so lost. and so alone. like i found myself in the middle of the woods with no idea how i got there or how to get out and no one i could call to help. i mean, i have friends, but... i just don't know how to do this sometimes. it's killing me.
ack. i'm so sorry guys. i don't mean to be a downer and i want so badly to be strong and independant, but this just hurts so fucking bad. and i know all the reasons why it won't work, can't work, isn't worth trying, but i still, visceraly, not logically, want it to go i miss my friend. i keep on feeling like if we could just be friends, back. and if i could just know that i wouldn't lose him forever, even if we never date again, that i would be fine. but he dosen't want that. and that kills me. he said i was the best thing that ever happened to him (recently- he said this recently) and how do you just move on and forget someone if that's the case? i miss my best friend. it feels like he's gone forever and i don't know how to cope. i'm gonna try to schedule some therapy on monday, but it's just so hard to be without.
GGG... thanks for the heads up. scarey stuff going on.
Husband came over today. I was told that I could have the sheriff here, so I did. major scared of him. he just stood there, shaking, really pissed. I videotaped it all, lawyer said to in case he tried to leave with anything. He blamed me for the most irrational things. like calves dying during the night. he said I sabotaged the car and gave him a fake key 'cause it doesn't run. I just said... no, it's the right key, the car does not start. told me he wanted the button thingie that opens the car lock for you... said it was the car starter. ??? the car does not start automatically. you have to put the key in and turn it... it was all so insane.
he's not the guy he was three weeks ago. I'm truly scared when he's here. and now I'm cold and sick to my stomach again. it's what happens when I'm exposed to him. and he had my car towed. not sure if he's supposed to take that kind of property off the place. it's just insane. lawyer said it could take 9 months to a year for this to be over. this was not a good day.

AA... ohmygod. I'm in tears. I'm here for you. and I know how you feel. I can't help, but I can be here for you. you cannot be responsible for his actions or feelings. all you can do is be there for yourself. and we're here too ~jami~
aunt agonist
i'm so sorry that this is all going so badly right now for you. i mean, YOU are being awesome. he is just reinforcing why it's so important not to have him in your life. he is being scary and crazy and you are doing everything right. stay away from him as much as possible. try to have someone supportive (even if it's just the sheriff) there when he comes over. think about therapy (now that i've decided i'm going i feel pretty good about it- but i know it's not for everyone). i wish i could do something to help. we're here for you.
AA - i was really moved by your post. and i don't think he just wants to forget you said, how is that even possible? quite the opposite. i think he can't stop thinking about you and your marriage, what worked, what didn't work, the places you've been together, the future plans you had. it sounds like his way of moving forward with the divorce is "out of sight, out of mind". i know you miss him, but right now - even as friends - you might fall into bad patterns with one another. space is good in that way - you can always get that friendship back after some reflection. you'll have grown and become stronger. i don't know either of you, so i really shouldn't be making any blanket statements here but it sounds like you both have a deep respect and love for one another...and i believe giving each other space is a true testament to that love. i know that is way easier said - and it's a huge adjustment when you can't go to that person for comfort, laughter, or simply to tell them about your day. if you feel like you can't go any further, just keep moving. you're doing a great job...and stay strong!!

jami - oh man. i'm sorry things are so hard for you right now. calves dying in the night? definitely not your fault... i agree that you need at least one person to be with you throughout all this...and you stay strong too!!
hey all. he had my car towed. not sure if he's allowed to do that, but it's done. he's been the only one to fix the car, and tools are here, so it's very strange that he had it towed. that, and the company that towed it SELLS cars, not fixes them.
I had the vehicle that I have been using all gased up for them- he's taking son to his parents house for the weekend - he shows up and gases up his vehicle. then padlocks the gas tanks. again, irrational behavior.
this am son asked for blueberry muffins and choc milk for breakfast - and he got it. I looked at it and said, please don't tell them that I let you eat that. (he is NOT an eggs person) and he asked why. I do not lie to him. I told him that dad wanted full custody. he said ~I know dad already told me~. that is just sad. what he is doing to my son. he is so torn already.
and he knows -as i have told him- whatever he chooses, where ever he chooses to be. it's ok with me. I will be ok. but these mindgames have got to stop.
AA... how are you doing today?
aunt agonist
still wobbly. still haven't slept. but better. i'm making cupcakes and doggie biscuits for a birthday party i don't want to go to, but i'm sure it will feel good once i'm there.

AA... did ya go? hope there was lots of frosting! can you listen to soft music to help you sleep?
~I~ went out to dinner. solo. not too bad. then a couple came in whe knew what was going on. I was surprised. for EX not saying anything, there are sure a lot of people who know. basically, I had ordered something that's not done yet, and EX went in to try to get it first. not gonna happen.
EX called the older boys, wanting to talk to them. they deleted the message.
good morning and hugs all around. i can't add much except these hugs; you guys are saying it all.

aunt a, i agree wholeheartedly with whitelighting about needing that space for yourself and for possibility of friendship with ex in the future.

therapy is a great idea, or at least, an it-can't-hurt idea. in fact, my therapist is who helped me make positive decisions for my life that resulted in me leaving my relationship. in any case, it helps to talk to someone, and someone you hope to give you honest and unbiased advice. we're all giving advice based on our own experiences, which may not necessarily fit each others'. a therapist knows what she's doing. but they're all different of course, so if you meet one that isn't helping, try again.

jami, you call his actions irrational, i call them abusive. please continue to keep the sherriff or any other support at close call. besides for safety reasons, it's another pair of eyes to witness these actions.
Aunt A... how are you doing?
Nickclick... yes, abusive. it's just that we're so used to it. he moved out of his motel to an older couple's home. for wanting to keep friends out of it, he's not. I feel so blasted isolated.
jami, i know you feel alone and that he's building up a gang of 'friends' against you, but they are not really friends if they are helping him treat you and your sons this way. i wish you had somewhere else to stay too.
aunt agonist
2 times. that's how many replies my computer has had an error for - thus deleting my entire reply. so this might be brief.

jami- i know you may be too close to see it, but i am so impresed by how strong and gracious you are managing to be in a situation full of big 'ol horses asses. you sound like an amazing mom with amazing boys, and it may even help for you to look back from your first post to your most recent and see that everytime you think you can't do something- you have been able to do it - with flying colors! in like, a matter of weeks you have had your entire world change and you are still trucking along, kicking ass the whole way! how are things for ya today?

re: the ex Mr.
i decided to do something that might have been dumb. i was talking to a friend and going over all the old stuff in our relationship and i realized that I am always the one who gets over stuff. i mean, i'm sure he probably had to too, but i mean - he cheated. i wanted a gesture- seomthing, anything to tell me that he understood how much it hurt me. he didn't do one but i decided our relationship was worth more than this one issue, so i worked it out by myself, and then came back. i wanted a marraige- he wasn't ready. i decided that i was in it for the long haul and that if this was the marraige i had- so be it. i did this all on my own. taking more than my fair share of the blame so i could rationalize it, and when we talked last i did it again. well enough of that. i have questoins. millions of questions but only about 5 REALLY IMPORTANT ones. i used to try not to 'talk it out' or go over things b/c i knew that wasn't his way of dealing with things even if it is mine, but today i sent an email. i basically said
'you said you wanted to be there for me if you could. well you can. you can answer these quesions that i have been making myself crazy with. i'm not trying to go back and rewrite history to to change anything now, but these are things i need to know to move on. i still feel like what happened was so sudden, but also so final, that i was really thrown for a loop and i need to work it out to get some closure. i need for you to answer these for me" and then i asked all my 'biggies'. i feel really liberated. party b/c me doing this was another way for me to acknowledge 'oh. we're not gonna be pals? then WHY am i holding back on MY needs to make you more comfortable??'. he may not answer, but i hope he will. frankly, i think he owes me some answers. but i actually had a really good day. after my first mopey post i had a fucking breakdown and couldn't stop crying but then i went out with friends and stayed out for like 2 full days (i stayed awake the WHOLE TIME!!) and then came home and slept like dead people. and you know what? when i was doing activities- i barely thought of him! so-- more activities for me!!
hey aa, glad you got thru! i was thinking about you. cool you had a good weekend with your friends! do that more! whoot!

QUOTE(aunt agonist @ Mar 5 2007, 03:21 PM) *

i feel really liberated. party b/c me doing this was another way for me to acknowledge 'oh. we're not gonna be pals? then WHY am i holding back on MY needs to make you more comfortable??'

totally! you're thinking of yourself first. but if he hasn't addressed stuff like this in the past, he might not again. but like you said, your goal was more in the asking.

QUOTE(aunt agonist @ Mar 5 2007, 03:21 PM) *

jami- i know you may be too close to see it, but i am so impresed by how strong and gracious you are managing to be in a situation full of big 'ol horses asses. you sound like an amazing mom with amazing boys, and it may even help for you to look back from your first post to your most recent and see that everytime you think you can't do something- you have been able to do it - with flying colors!

i second that emotion!

Just to add to the therapy bit. After my crazy break up, I went to counselling and it was the ebst thing I ever did. I dealt with what my ex had been and what I had allowed him to do to me, but also improved me and my self image all around. I find that what I talked to this woman about has helped me so much in everyday life, but also in any future romantic relationship.

(((busties))) I can go and smack the exes around if you want, I did it to my ex (and would do it again...that's another story!). I just wanted to make you feel a teensy bit better!

Hope you all are doing okay.

aunt agonist
*le sigh*
i got a response to my questions. it knocked the wind out of me. it hurt a lot more than i thought it would but it gave me closure. basically he said that he had been worrying about it not working for over a year. and that he kept on having these hopes that rather than telling me about, he felt guilty about b/c he wasn't sure if he could achieve what he wanted with me. so he felt resetntful. he didn't like the decision to move to nyc, but he went along with it and then got more resentful. he said that even when things were good he was basically resentful and anxious and guilty. he said that he gave up a lot to have this relationship and felt like he would just have to keep giving up things. he said it didn't make it better that i gave up a lot too b/c then it was just 2 people being resentful. he said the kids thing was some of the issue. he said he went on a date b/c he thought it would get his mind off things and that he didn't expect for it to become anything but he thinks that they have a long term future. apparently SHE's been to therapy and is helping him work through stuff.

hmm. it hurts. but he just dosen't love me anymore. i think that it was unnecessary to tell me that he thought they had a future long term, but that's life. i keep wondering if i had told him what i hadn;t told anyone up until now- that i had decided shortly before he came home from scotland that i DID want kids. i had picked out names. i just didn't want to tell him b/c i didn't want to hurt him if i changed my mind one day. i keep wondering if that would have made a difference, but i think the reality is- he had tools he could have utilized- like communication, therapy, or couples therapy, but he didn't use them. he let his doubts fester and pushed them under until they all popped out resulting in this. i do think it's perverse that the thing pushing him and his new girlfriend closer is discussing the failures of our relationship, but i can't do anything about that. he seems to think that she's healthy in a way i could never be. i think that i am at least healthy enough not to enter a relationship with someone based on working out their feelings on their recent marriage. but whatevs. if he thinks she's healthier and everything i couldn't be than there is nothing i could do about it. it hurts. it hurts really fucking bad, but i think ultimately it will be helpful for me. i'm just still a bit stunned by this whole situation, but the one good thing is - i'm done. i don't care about being his friend anymore. i worked my ass off for the relationship and to try to be friends, and i just CAN'T any more. i don't have any more fight left in me. he isn't in love with me anymore- i'm not sure if he ever was. if you are, you don't resent people for the choices that you make. he's in love with someone else. and i just.. i've taken so many steps. that was my last step. i don't have anymore in me. if he wants to be friends in the future- like he said in the e-mail. he can call me. he can take steps. b/c i'm all out. he also said that he thought i could be happy now without him being a barrier to my happiness. if i could stomach talking to him again i would tell him to ask his therapist about 'transferance' and 'projection'. just because you blame me, dosen't mean i blamed you. just because you feel like i'm a hinderance to your happiness, dosen't mean i felt that way about you.
le sigh. tonight was a really sad night. : (
((AA)) i'm really sorry to hear you're hurting so bad. but it sounds like you got the much needed closure. and i think you're right to leave the ball in his court as far as being friends goes. maybe it's not my place to throw in these 2 cents, but it's totally lame that the new gf is playing proxy therapist to him. not good for them in the long run. but who cares?? time to focus on your personal healing and growth.

do something nice for yourself tonight.
(aunt a) so sorry. I can hear your pain. you take care of yourself. try for a moment of blissful forgetfulness. and then another. I dunno. we are here for you. post again.
aunt agonist
QUOTE(whitelightning @ Mar 5 2007, 11:01 PM) *

((AA)) i'm really sorry to hear you're hurting so bad. but it sounds like you got the much needed closure. and i think you're right to leave the ball in his court as far as being friends goes. maybe it's not my place to throw in these 2 cents, but it's totally lame that the new gf is playing proxy therapist to him. not good for them in the long run. but who cares?? time to focus on your personal healing and growth.

do something nice for yourself tonight.

i think it's actually indicitive of how he operates. i was that for him once. and when i stopped being able to fix things he blamed all of his percieved inadequacies on me and the relationship. he said that he made his decision at christmas (a full month before he told me... nice), and that the deciding factor was seeing that his brother was uncommunicative and he felt, looked unhappy. he said that he knew his brother (not the sick one btw) was not going to do anything about it and that's how his family operates. i think his brother could have been uncommunicative but it very well could have had nothing to do with his relationship. and his relationship with his wife is turbulent, but they clearly love each other very much and i think would benefit from couples counselling. but whatevs. it's just sad that he felt so resentful of me for not being 'supportive'. it's horseshit and if he thinks about it for long enough he'll realize that. but he won't let himself. he'll find another girl to mother him and then decide that it must be HER that's why he's not able to achieve his dreams. fuck 'em. he needs to get his shit together and stop blaming everyone else before i would ever let him be my friend.

i think the thing that is kicking my ass so hard is he mentioned he started having doubts, like, almost immediately after i took him back. it took me like, a month to get to be ok with calling him my boyfriend, so it kills me that he didn't voice his doubts then. i just feel like he was so involved with his doubts and anxiety that he NEVER thought of me. like, i should have been allowed to make decisions knowing all of the details and he took that from me. he kept things from me and i was just going blind. i fucking hate that. i hate that the reason he didn't tell me was that he 'didn't want me to be angry' . fuck that. he didn't want me to leave. so he waited until i was well and truly settled in the relationship to run away. he's the biggest fucking coward i have ever met. and he's hiding behind this girl now, so he dosen't have to face himself. bah! i was sad and now i'm just fucking angry. it was fucking horseshit that he knew he had these doubts and didn't tell me. it was horseshit that he thought i was the source of all his problems. really? so what are you doing now, huh? are you writing or setting the world on fire? no. you found a new mother who you can throw a tantrum with and who will hold you until you settle down. you don't fucking do anything because you're terrified of failing and you look for some reason, anything but you're own shit to see why you haven't accomplished anything. because you never tried. he never offered solutions for what we could do. i tried to offer options for how he could get what he wanted all the fucking time and he never thought of any on his own. he's a fucking pissant, and i always deserved better than him. i just hoped that he could be who i knew he could be. but apparently it was too fucking hard for him to just fucking pony up. well i need someone who can fight for me. who WANTS to be with me and dosen't blame every single little inadequacy on me. you weren't a writer? why? b/c i broke your computer or forbade you to write? no. it was because you just DIDN'T FUCK?ING WRITE ANYTHING. i couldn't make you write or stop you from it. you just didn't do it and then decided that was somehow my fault. ARGH!!!!!! well it's horseshit and i wouldn't accept that kind of pity party from a friend either. so i want him out of my life and i can't wait until it stops hurting for good and i don't have to remember his stupid face. get off the cross M, we need the fucking wood. argh!
QUOTE(jami @ Mar 5 2007, 11:15 PM) *
try for a moment of blissful forgetfulness. and then another.

this is some poetically good friggin' advice! how are you today, jami????

aunt a, i know it feels good to think about how unhealthy his new 'relationship' is and how it's probably going to fail (honestly from your description, how couldn't it?), but don't worry yourself about his problems anymore. that's the biggest perk of all of this, that his problems are now all his and not yours anymore.... think of it as his departing gift!

i have a couple of friends that still know my ex too. they have differing opinions about him and i get stories from both points of view, and really i don't want to hear either. i don't want to know how great he's doing, nor do i want to hear what a muck he's making of his life. it feels good for about 10 seconds that to think he's miserable without me, but then i resume the role of girlfriend, worrying about him again. that sucks too!
Sorry to pop in, but y'all read my post in the depression thread. I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who has these thoughts rolling about in my head. I hate that they exist and I really want to purge myself of them, but alas... it comes in waves.
Nick- that's exactly what he wants me to do.... resume the role of gf here in the south, as he has his "thing" up north. sick, ain't it.

Just wanna do ME for awhile. And pump it up. cool.gif

QUOTE(nickclick @ Mar 6 2007, 09:30 AM) *

this is some poetically good friggin' advice! how are you today, jami????

aunt a, i know it feels good to think about how unhealthy his new 'relationship' is and how it's probably going to fail (honestly from your description, how couldn't it?), but don't worry yourself about his problems anymore. that's the biggest perk of all of this, that his problems are now all his and not yours anymore.... think of it as his departing gift!

i have a couple of friends that still know my ex too. they have differing opinions about him and i get stories from both points of view, and really i don't want to hear either. i don't want to know how great he's doing, nor do i want to hear what a muck he's making of his life. it feels good for about 10 seconds that to think he's miserable without me, but then i resume the role of girlfriend, worrying about him again. that sucks too!

AA-it's sooo great to hear your anger towards him-great to just let it out! this whole new gf thing is fucked right up. that is just so incredibly lame, and like you said:

you found a new mother who you can throw a tantrum with and who will hold you until you settle down.

That's not a husband, that's a fucking baby. I'm sure that relationship will last forever-HA! Talk about a rebound...

Hugs to you all-you are strong awesome women!
aunt agonist
hiya moooving on gals. i'm doing better today. it was nice out and i went and played tennis with a pink tennis ball. that always cheers me up. i had to e-mail him a few times today which was LAME. i actually just used the gmail chat thing to ask about a bill that he left due that was for his portion of the phone and to ask him about divorce stuff. he seemed kind of weird. funny thing is- i still don't have any desire to be pals. i think about it from time to time, but i am really really really turned off of who he has revealed himself to be. and i feel hurt about the injustice of him blaming me for things. and angry. but whatevs. he is a looo-ser and if he is gonna blame me he can do it. i know i didn't do anything wrong. well- that's not true, i did lots of stuff wrong- but i certainly didn't hold him back or resent him. i mean, i resent him NOW b/c he lied to me for 2 years. but such is life. anywho. it was successful (the emailing/chat thing) and i didn't even cry. hooray!!!!
AA.... you sound SO much better! yea.
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