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Suds, I spent six and a half years with my ex, we broke up 8 months ago. He also sent me a letter, and texts, and called me, thing is he had me arrested.

I was horrified that he was in contact with me again, he wanted me to apologize and say all was okay with us, and he was hoping we could be friends.

I just ignored him, that is all the advice I can give you, that's all I could do with my ex. All I feel great now...I promise that eveyone will feel better...

(((suds and cultureh)))

don't be inticed by your curiosity, or his flattery. if you've been doing ok without him, which i'm sure you'all have been, then ...

ignore ignore ignore!

i've weakly listened to the whining and crying of my ex after many a mistake, and i never felt anything except, well, weak for giving him my time, again and again.
awwww thank-you for your advice nickclick & culturehandy!

it's SO GOOD to hear from people who have been through the same kind of stuff i have.

i think you're right - ignoring him seems to be the best way forward. my friend today said i should scribble 'fuck off' on the letter and send it back, but i just don't want any contact with my ex. i don't even want him to know that i'm angry with him. (and i am.... REALLY angry! ha ha)

my ex was a wanker, and i'm over him.

the problem is - i'm not over what he did to me. because no-one ever cheated on me before, i'm finding it really difficult to start dating again because i'm finding it hard to trust new people.

it suckedy sucks! i've got cute boys calling me and i'm ignoring the calls because it's scaring me to even think about a new relationship. the one boy i have a crush on is very alusive and not up for a realtionship, but we make out - which is FUN.

sorry for rambling...
you got it suds! have fun making out, answer calls from cute boys, and throw away the letter. channel your inner beth ditto. i love that photo, and her!
aunt agonist
ugh. so i have been a long time lurker but sporadic poster. somehow i think i will be visiting this thread a lot now. boo! yay for this thread but boo on breaking up.

the story:
me and M have been together 5 years (had been). we had always had issues with passports and such and decided to get married sooner than we would have to get him into the country (he is british and i have dual citizenship-so it wasn't a problem for me when i was living in the Uk with him). anywhoo... that was about 3 years ago. we kinda treated it like v. elaborate paperwork. the intention was to do a real wedding soon. about a year after that there was an incident at a club with a friend of mine. basically i got a funny vibe and asked him if my friend had kissed him and he indicated taht the "friend" had. i was horrified that he hadn't told me and generally handled the situation badly (when i asked if he kissed the friend back M said 'no' and i told him it was hard to believe him b/c there had been an errant kiss early in our relationship to someone else while i was out of town and the circumstances were suspect. he went off in a huff and didn't try to comfort me or explain it would never happen again. just got his feelings hurt b.c i didn't trust him and generally acted like a dick) anywho- i went back to the US and he stayed in the UK . we were apart for a year or so but ultimately got back together after many long, hard talks.i told him i wasn't promising anything, but i was willing to give it a try. well- i did and things were great for a while. we moved to nyc and that was a big stress issue b/c i hadn't anticipated how much in the hole it would put us financially (i have a tendency to be stupidly optimistic). we had a huge HUGE fight in august where we almost broke up b/c he wanted kids by the time he was 32 (we had discussed kids before at length and he had never wanted them- in fact,he toyed with the idea of sterilization for a time) and i told him that i could never promise him kids b/c 1) i was 23. for me, it was far too early to be thinking about that and i had never wanted them before and 2) i have pcos and was severely sexually abused at a very young age- both factors that i have been told could cause fertility problems for me. basically i told him that i couldn't possibly blame him if it was really important to him, if he didn't want to stay with someone who couldn't guarantee kids. eventually we decided that since i wasn't saying no- just a firm 'maybe' and that since he didn't want them before and we weren't in a position to have them anytime soon that we would just let it ride.

recent events- things had been going v. well. housework was not an arguing points for month (he is generally much tidier than i am, so this had been an issue in the past) , but we were going to do the final big marraige interview in june, one of us was not going to have to leave the country anytime soon and we had actually been going out instead of just sitting around on the couch all the time. i was a little sad that b/c of the breakup the wedding thing had been put on hold indefinately (and yet, i had been married to him for about 3 years) , but overall things were better than they had ever been . i had even decided that our relationship was much more important than a big poofy white dress, so had pretty much gotten over the fact that i might never had a wedding.

the breakup: sex has NEVER been an issue for us and i noticed that he seemed a bit down and sex wasn't as regular as it had been. we had been talking that evening about buying stuff for the house (he really liked the idea of a big screen TV). that night,i asked him if everything was ok,or if he just needed some time b/c of the decline in shagging. he said "i know it's not you- but it's definately something'. a worrisome response as i had expected something more along the lines of 'we've both been busy lately and i'm sleepy." over the course of that night and the next day he kept on indicating that there was nothing that was my fault but something was definately WRONG. i asked him if it was about us and he said it was. i asked him if it was something we could work on together and he said he didn't think so.i said 'is it something unfixable? i can't imagine that there is something that we can't resolve- provided you still want to be in this relationship, right?' he didn't have an answer and i said that whether or not he wanted to be in our relationship was something he should be able to answer pretty quickly. he said 'he loves me, he's just not IN love with me anymore.

phew. sucks huh? i have no idea where to go from this.i moved out of our apartment and back in with my mom in north carolina,but my whole world feels shaken.

ack.this is huge. i'm sorry for monopolizing!!!

i wanted to write this seperately so it didn't get lost in my humongo moan fest. you ladies are AMAZING! i hadn't visited this thread before, but i read through the archives with awe- i am so impressed by your stregth and resilliance. this is such an amazing community and while i mostly exist here as an outsider looking in , i am consistantly impressed by y'alls saviness, sassiness, strength, and general rockingness. thank you for existing. y'all embody the traits that i aspire to.
aunt agonist
ack! i killed it!
Sorry no-one posted, aunt a. What I would say is that it sounds like you've been reacting to what he's doing/saying for a while, letting him call the shots emotionally, if that makes sense. It sounds like you've been through a rough time, but if you can, try and take this time alone to figure out what you really want. He sounds as if he's been pretty inconsistent about big issues like having kids, which IMO is unfair.

I know it's complicated but I hope you can get a clear perspective and decide what you want to do next, rather than waiting to hear from him.
hey, it's good to read all of this. I am dealing with a divorce and I feel like my ex is moving on and I am not. I am new to these there a place about divorce on here?
dixneuf, i think ya found it. i broke off a 10-year relationship last year. we never married, but it felt (still feels) a helluva lot like divorce. what can we do you for?
dixneuf - the worst thing to do is think about what your ex is doing, if they are moving on.

that's like the best advice i ever got.

i looked at these pictures from a party that was held at my ex's house (i really wanted to go but i'm not ready to see him yet) - and he looked AWFUL - he has lost weight, he looks miserable.

i worried about him because he's obviously upset and his friends don't care about him. they all make fun of him behind his back and he doesn't even know it. i DO NOT want to feel pity for someone who lied to me and slept with women behind my back. then i had to feel all those feelings of betrayal all over again. UGH.

it's not worth it.

i swear, i have tried to avoid all pictures of him and updates about him and now i know why. good advice, my friend.
myspace is evil for exactly that reason; it's so easy to spy....

i still do KIT with my ex and least week he told me he's thinking of buying a co-op with his new woman. we fought for at least half of our nearly decade-long relationship about buying property together, and usually it was him fighting against it, afraid to spend the money. blah blah blah. after i broke it off he was all about the idea of course, but i saw it as a lame attempt to get back together. either way it pisses me off and i hate that i friggin' care at all. i'm in a great relationship with someone i'd much rather buy a house with as well as spend the rest of my life with. so happy i'm not with the ex anymore, my life is so much better, as it was the minute i left him. so why in the hell does it bother me what he does and with whom he does it?
QUOTE(nickclick @ Feb 7 2007, 07:44 AM) *

myspace is evil for exactly that reason; it's so easy to spy....

i still do KIT with my ex and least week he told me he's thinking of buying a co-op with his new woman. we fought for at least half of our nearly decade-long relationship about buying property together, and usually it was him fighting against it, afraid to spend the money. blah blah blah. after i broke it off he was all about the idea of course, but i saw it as a lame attempt to get back together. either way it pisses me off and i hate that i friggin' care at all. i'm in a great relationship with someone i'd much rather buy a house with as well as spend the rest of my life with. so happy i'm not with the ex anymore, my life is so much better, as it was the minute i left him. so why in the hell does it bother me what he does and with whom he does it?

It sounds like he told you he's buying (or may be buying) the house to poke you. You rejected him and he's lashing out (consciously or subconsciously) to hurt you back. That, in some ways, could feel like rejection to you (e.g. he wouldn't buy a place with me, but he's buying one with her - what's wrong with me?)

Best to laugh (if possible) and let go. You're happy. He wants to be.
hahahahahahahahaha ...ahh, thank you mod, you're so right.
aunt agonist
nick, suds and dix -- i am feeling your pain accutely!!

i need to learn how to stop fixating on what he's doing. you wanna know something sick and tragic? i tried to guess his email password. just once- but still. *hangs head in shame at being the worst feminist EVER and the most pathetic girly on the planet*

(long rant ahoy!!!!)
my ex is moving on. i don't know how i know, but i'm certain that he's had sex with someone else by now. urgh. gross (it's only been a few weeks- we were together for 5 1/2 years). our mutual friend didn't disagree when i theorized that he probably has by now.

he is just turning into someone who i don't know at all. he is hanging out with this friend of his (previously just a work lunch buddy) who i never liked (this guy... well.. he only dates blondes. that tells me pretty much all i need to know). he's hanging out with this schmucko guy a lot and going out and getting stooopid drunk. like so drunk he dosen't remember what he did (i only know this b/c of my own stupid drunk dialing and him calling me and saying 'did we talk? i don't know what happened last night but your number was on my phone'. also mutual friend has told me that he's been doing that a lot lately). he has previously had huge issues with depression and always used to do this sort of drinking when he was in the worst way. anywho- i had been pretty lame and kept on calling him b/c i am PATHETIC!

recently i emailed him pretty much apologising for making such an ass of myself with frequent calls (although his brother is really sick right now. like hospitlization sick- so... that's what started the calls but they quickly lost any sembelence of ligitimacy). basically i told him that i still wanted to be there for him during this thing with his brother (who i was very close to- he's only a year younger than me and we were always really good friends), but that i thought maybe we could just communicate soley via email b/c that way we could keep contact but it would help any spontaneous craziness on my part through the magic of the backspace button. basically i flat out told him that while i was ok with losing a boyfriend, it was really hard for me to think of losing my best friend, and that while it might be a bit awkward i would like to try to maintain some sort of contact so our friendship dosen't just slip away with the divorce and when he moves to the UK in June. basically he replied that i could call if *i* wanted to, but that he didn't think it was a good idea to put too much work into the friendship since there were already several hundred miles between us. basically that if i wanted to call him he wouldn't stop me, but that he wasn't going to do anything for it. it's like a fucking bomb that keeps on exploding! krshhhhhhh! i don't love you anymore. krssssssssssshhh! i've felt like this for the past year. krrrshhhhhhhh! i am not willing to put any work into maintaining a friendship krshhhhhhhh! (direct quote -"Yes, I want to try and
get on with my life and that is something that is about me and not
you.") kablow!!!
*le sigh*
the kicker is that he had the cheek to say how wonderful i was for calling re: sick little bro and that he hoped if i ever needed him in any way he could be there for me - um, hey idiot, i just asked you to be there for me! by reassuring me that we would be able to maintain a friendship! and you said no!

a mutual friend (my best friend and his pal- although she is firmly on "my side" and he knows that too b/c she told him) said that she thinks that he just has really naive ideas about what is going to happen. like he mentioned that he feels guilty when he talks to me b/c he knows i'm sad. (which irked me b/c frankly i've talked a fucking good game when i talk to him). she thinks (probably rightly) that he is just hoping that i will deal with this on my own and eventually when i'm not sad he won't have to feel guilty and voila! insta friends again. she also said (rightly again) that it is not suprising because he has never been willing to do any work himself for our relationship and he's certainly not going to start now by doing any work to reastablish a friendship and determine the parameters of our new relationship. or lack thereof i suppose. i guess it's better that i know, but frankly, i'm disgusted with him. the boy i know never EVER would have just turned his back on a friend like that and he didn't even have the gonads to just say 'i don't think this is a good idea'. he just said 'um. well you CAN call or write. although perhaps you shouldn't.... you know, for YOU'. he had the cheek to act as if he was acting in my best interests. you can be a dick or you can be a martyr, pal. you don't get to be both. also, i really hate that he expects and wants me to be there for him when things are terrible (like with his little bro) (which i will still do b/c for better or for worse, i still care a great deal for his family), but has no desire at all or no intention of doing that for me right now.

arghhhhhhhh!!! sorry for making everyone enter my ranty-land. i hope things are going better for y'all in moooooooooving on-ville.
(((aunt a)))) seems like the breakup is still new. you're surviving the hardest time. getting drunk, pretending not to care, and acting immature is probably his way of dealing. i'm sure you didn't do anything to deserve being treated that way so the best thing is to ignore him for a while. can you get in touch with his brother or family without going thru your ex?

ps you're not pathetic or a bad feminist! my previously mentioned breaku, which was over a year ago, was one of the most emotionally draining events of my life, and as you can see i still hit a speedbump now and then....
aunt agonist
thanks nickclick. i'm trying to ignore stuff. it's hard and it sucks but i keep reminding myself that for every day it sucks, i'm one day closer to it not sucking so hard anymore. schmee schmee schmee.

i probably could contact his family,but i don't want them to have to deal with anymore drama than they are dealing with already. like, i don't want them to have to feel conflicted about speaking to me. they've got enough on their plate right now. he's already told them for me that i do care a great deal for them and would like to help if there is anything i can do. so, you know. the offer is out there.
hey aunt agonist, i'm so sorry you're going through all this. (((HUGS)))

i read this book, 'it's called a break-up because it's broken' and they say the best thing to do is cut him off totally. no e-mails, phone calls - nothing. its SO DIFFICULT because your boyfriend is the one person who knows everything about you, and you're used to spilling your guts to them, but it's really best to just stop.

i spoke to my ex after we broke up because he called me and said he missed me and then he told me he'd made out with other girls after we'd been broken up for like two days. i can't tell you how much it hurt. if i hadn't have spoken to him, i wouldn't have known it. i would have been better. talking to him set me back tenfold.

he has sent me letters and sent me stuff and i am ignoring it. i can't be bothered with him anymore. getting to this stage is pretty amazing, i'm so excited and happy to be here.

i hope this helps, or at least makes some sense. i'm totally hungover today and not thinking straight. xxxxxxx
aunt agonist
thanks suds. i really appreciate the support here. yeah, it;s just the losing him as a friend that really kicked my ass. ah well. it will hopefully be easier this way.
good luck on the hangover btw!!
i know what you mean! but you have other friends, and us here

i actually needed to make a list of reasons why i broke up with him and why i didn't want to be with him anymore, because after i left i forgot why i hated him, instantly becoming nostalgic, of course missing my life and some of the people i'd lose touch with. make that list!
nickclick - YES! on the first night apart from my ex, my best friend literally forced me to write a list of stuff i didn't like about him. i was surprised at how long the list was! every time i wanted to call him, i'd read the list over again. it really really helped.

aunt agonist - dude, no worries. you must use this place to get your ex out of your system!!

PLUS! i totally forgot to tell you guys - i made out with a really hot boy last night at this club, and i think i like him! he made me laugh, like all we did was laugh... and he sent me a text today!! EXCITING! xxxx
aunt agonist
yeah suds!!! go head on with your bad self!!

yeah. i was talking to my mom and she asked me to describe my ideal relationship. i was like ' um,now? really??' but she said not to name names but to describe what it would be like. i realized that it bore very little resemblence to what we had. yeah, we had some good snapshots. you know little memories that really were wonderful, but there was some shit in between.
whoo hoo suds! keep us posted.

aunt_a, that's a great way to explain it. i get so nostalgic about those little "snapshots" that it was easy to forget the big picture.

looks like your mom is a good friend. mine was and still is hard to talk to because she liked my ex and would often sympathize with him, i guess thinking i was the stronger person. for example, after i left, her 2nd comment, after something like 'whatever makes you happy' was like 'what is he going to do with his life now?' or i'll want to be catty and talk trash about his new girlfriend, and she'll be like 'oh i'm glad he's happy.' technically i am too, but for a few minutes i want to hear that his life sucks without me!!!!
Okay, so I totally thought I was over my ex who I was with for 3 years until.... I read in the newest issue of bust that started off with a letter his new gal wrote about how happy they are together and how he snagged her by sending her that issue. YUCK! I am so disappointed, I anxiously await my new issues and that is what I get to see. Not only that but he was sending the packages to her behind my back. What a slap right across the face! mad.gif
Linzo, try and cheer up. He's a prick and totally not worth it. You are better off without him.
aunt agonist
linzo, that totally sucks it.
he sounds like a schmuck. let me show you a picture that made me laugh (i'm too in the thick of things to offer any helpful advice- but i can show you silly pictures! bucket seal
i dunno about you guys, but i identify with the bucket seal.
omg bucket seal is the best thing ever!!

i usually hate v-day but today wasn't as bad as i thought it would be. couples suck most of the time, but seeing so many out and about this evening, i just thought.... i'd rather be single than in a sucky relationship where my ex was cheating on me the whole time. that was a really empowering thought.

how did everyone else get on today? x
Thanks for the support... bucket seal, most definetly made me smile!
hi, sorry in advance for, i don't know, posting again about feeling fucked up about the same goddamned guy. i was away for a few days this week, had a nice time with a friend (i get along pretty ok by myself and with friends and family). the ex of 1 year wanted to say good bye before i left- why??? to sleep w/ me i guess. i wouldn't cause he lives with his girlfriend who, btw, he met while he was still seeing me. he sends me text messages while i'm away and calls when i return. he wants to see me on v-day and i say ok even though it's weird for me. i went to his- their- apartment and start crying because there are pictures of them together and her stuff is all over and their stuff is combined..he always says we'll be together someday but wtf? he's with her now. it makes me feel like total shit. i can not be this guys friend right now and def not his lover and i wish to fucking god he did not live so close to me. i wish i could move away but that is not realistic right now. i'm just..angry and mad and sad all at once and have no one to talk to about this cause it's, like, embarrassing. we haven't been together as a couple for so long (but, yes, have slept together a few times while he lives w/ his new gf and i feel like a jerk for doing that and actually do not want to be his gf b/c he doesn't treat girls respectfully, not me or the new gf, prob no one..) this relationship is sooooooo wrong. why does it take so long to get over??? again, sorry for posting cause i'm obviously a jerk and make dumb mistakes that put me in bad spots so sympathy is not what i need..just, maybe, a kickin the head..
aunt agonist
i feel ya sweetie. no judgements here man. break up's fuck with your head. i actually read an article recently saying that your brain pretty much acts like it's on crack cocaine when your in love. we're like, going through withdrawel here and definately all do some things we're not proud of. it sounds like you know what you have to do. just stop seeing him and speaking to him full stop. hard advice i know. i'm trying to learn to follow it too. don't let him fuck with your head like that (because frankly, inviting you over on v-day to his house and stringing you on is just fucking with your head. he may just be confused but that's no reason to draw you into his fucking web of confusion.) good luck! and keep us posted

in other news- the ex emailed today. he is a fucking dick. firstly he updated me on his little bro (things are getting better) and then he went into practical stuff. to be fair, a lot of this we legitamently had to work out, like- are we filing taxes together or seperate? what are we going to do about our credit card debt? we just got our apartment deposit back- should it go to debt or do i need it?
but there was also some sneaky little barbs in there too. for instance
"Secondly, How long do you want to keep doing the medical insurance for phone time deal? I’m a little concerned because I’ve been using the phone a lot recently and I don’t want to land you with the bill. I can keep you on the medical insurance for as long as you need it but I think I should start paying my own phone bill as soon as I can" (he is keeping me on his insurance, and we have a family plan that i've been paying for. it's about even money wise). i am willing to bet that his stupid ass just realized that i am able to see the phone numbers that he dials. idiot. i don't care what girls he's fucking anyway. i know he's doing it.

also, this little gem -'Do you want me to start divorce paperwork right away?'
who send that the day after v-day??? plus, he already knows that my plan was to do it in april when i was going up to nyc for a wedding shower (we have to get the divorce in ny b/c that's where we lived when we were 'married'

firstly, what. the. fuck. that's a perfectly valid thing to ask about, but the day after v-day? really??????? come on dude. also, he prefaced the email with 'i hope your ok'. of course i'm not fucking ok. don't pretend you care b/c you already made it clear that you have no intention of us being friends b/c you are moving on to an aunt.a free life. a life full of pussy and douche bag friends.

secondly, did he spend his v-day thinking- you know what would make this day better? a divorce. i'll get on that tomorrow!

thirdly- seriously, there is no way in hell he wouldn't know that saying that would hurt me. it's like since we ceased email contact he is doing these little niggly things to get me upset or to encourage me to call him. but ever so subtely. like, the formula used to be 1- i got upset 2- i called him 3- he acted evasive on the phone. it's not as if i don't know the divorce stuff has to be handled, but unless he's planning on getting married in 3 weeks, it's not absolutely necessary to bring it up right away.

i am still just so hurt and disappointed at how cold and thoughtless he's become. i fucking hyperventalated and vomited when i read the e-mail. seriously, who does that? who sends someone that shit after v-day???

arghhhhhh!!! i am thinking about basically saying
1- fine. start the divorce stuff asap. i want to get this over with
2. i would like it if you cover your own cell phone. unfortunately b/c the contract is under my name, i am still required to have a family plan until august- but still-get your own
3. i'm glad your brother is doing ok. now that we've dealt with that and the pragmatic stuff i see no reason for us to contact each other again. i don't need to know what you are doing with regards to debt, i just need a figure of exactly half of it so i know how much i owe. email me the number and i'll send checks directly to the bills account so we don't have to contact each other again
caroline, don't be embarrassed, your friends are there for you no matter what decisions you make (just as you would be for them i'm sure). and i'm sure they'd give you a kick if you ask for it!

just say NO to your ex! if it upsets you to go to his apt, don't go! better to stay away from him, even if you feel lonely or miss him.

my cousin's doing the same thing... her ex calls and asks to come over, and she makes excuses why he can't, rather than just saying 'i broke up with you and don't want to see you anymore!' she doesn't want to cause another fight or hurt his feelings, but he wasn't so concerned with her feelings while he was cheating and mooching all her dough!

make the list. you just listed about 10 reasons why you shouldn't see him. write them down and keep it where you can easily reference.

and then concentrate on your friends, yourself, whatev you're into, and meeting a new guy.

good luck!

aunt_a, yes, say exactly that to him. sounds like he's trying hard to hurt you and at the same time find out if it's working.

my ex still makes up stupid reasons to call me and try to make me jealous or whatev, such as asking me if i need some of the things i left in our apt (1 1/2 years later! i'm okay without the a/c and toaster oven so far) just to coincidentally bring up that he's moving in with his new girl. this week he asks me if it's okay if he takes said girl to a nice restaurant around the block from my house for vday. there are one million restaurants between his house and mine and i don't need to know which one he chooses, and the chances i'd choose the same one are minimal.
aunt agonist
nick click,
thanks for the validation. it helps b/c mutual friend just thinks he was being thoughtless, but it seems to me more like he's poking at a bruise. hoestly, i suspect he still wants me in some bizarre way and wants to hurt me to 'prove' that i'm still there for him or still care. well that is fucked up and mean. i'm glad/sad about knowing that i am not the only one who thinks that - it helps to validate my feelings and my responses
Caroline, NO! NO NO NO! Complete cauterization is needed. No phone calls, no emails, no contact, PERIOD. You're just gonna keep getting sucked back in & keep feeling bad about it. NO MORE! HE HAS A GIRLFRIEND HE LIVES WITH! If he's going to cheat on her with you, what makes you think he's going to remain faithful to you when some other broad comes along? CUT HIM OFF AT THE KNEES. It's HARD, but necessary for your sanity/self-esteem. He's will say anything, but you don't have to believe it. Don't just be his trick. You're worth more than that.
thanks to everyone for responding to my cry for help! i just don't understand head games. is there a book out there that explains them? I have looked up all kinds of things- from co dependency to narcissism. i kinda feel like if i understand the psychology better, i'll react better (instead of getting sucked in). argh. well, thanks again. gonna try hard to resist this asshole! p.s. i poke around this site now and then and think it's great! it seems legit and the ladies here sound like smart cookies (tired old expression but true!)
wub.gif aw shucks

books? i dunno, choose carefully tho. my roommate always buys those pop psychology he's just not that into you/rules books and they seem so heterocentric, middle of the road and place the onus on the female to create good relationships and accept bad behavior. make sure it's not a 'pink' book in a serious cover.
I'm glad you're listening to us, but that doesn't mean you're *hearing*, us, girl. AP is a harsh mistress & I think that whole Mary Poppins, a spoon full of sugar deal is BS. You can hate on me if you wanna, but I'm only telling you the truth as I see it so that maybe you can, too.

On with the boot to the head,

The game he's playing with your mind is simple, fundamental, & textbook, Caroline. Everybody wants to be loved & some people use that to a means to their own ends. You want to be loved & are willing take your relationship with him any way you can get it, so he's exploiting it to the hilt. He's an asshole. Right now, you're a bit fragile & have some obvious self-esteem issues. That makes you easy pickings. Low hanging fruit, if you will. You're already the other woman to the woman he *LIVES* with & you keep coming back for more even though he breaks your heart. He *knows* that whatever horseshit he's gonna shovel at you, you're gonna eat with a spoon even if it's against your better judgement. A few platitudes & a little lovin' & *BAM*, he's got an easy hook-up that he can string along until he finds a new chick to fuck over. In the long run, if you question him, he's gonna pull the hurt little boy act & if that doesn't work, he'll get angry because it's all your fault. This is why you cease & desist all contact. Get a new hobby, start a new exercise program, focus on your friends, family, & yourself & forget about him. Three months from now you're gonna laugh at his ass.

And proximity NO EXCUSE for the shit you're putting up with. I have a feeling if this guy lived two hours away, you'd rearrange your whole schedule to see him while his lady is at a four hour yoga seminar. He's got you wrapped that tightly around his finger. CUT THAT FINGER OFF & SHOVE IT UP HIS ASS!

You're worth being loved by a good man that is going to treat you right. Step back & realize this about yourself. Everybody keeps saying write a list of things that tell you what a shit he is; I say write a list why YOU'RE too fucking *awesome* to get jerked around by this ass weasel. Use them in tandem.
that's a good kick in the head, ap. i just blocked him from my email. i've never done that. has anyone else? do you feel like "what am i missing?" how do you get over that? it's so weird. i know this guy is bad bad bad but i wanted to believe him even though in my heart of hearts i know he is a liar and is not right in the head. geez. why do i give anyone the benefit of the doubt? yeah, i totally know he is likely to fuck me over and over again. i know i am way fucking cooler than he'll ever be (truth) and i have better things going on without him. shit, i'm about to start school in 1 month. i do NOT want to fuck that up! thanks again!!!
Normally I am all about the Mary Poppins treatment, but in this situation I TOTALLY agree with everything AP has said. Everything.

If there were a book on how to deal with manipulative assholes who play mind games, there would be only one page to it. And that page would simply say, "Run away!!!!!" The reason why he plays this game is because he can get away with it. Don't let him. Love yourself first. Take care of yourself first.

Don't talk to him anymore. In your cell phone, change his name to "Flaming Asshole" or something just to remind you of what he has done to you. And when he calls, don't answer. He may ask "Why?", but he doesn't deserve a response; he knows why. The man is poison. He has a hell of a lot of growing up to do. Just be glad that you aren't stuck living with him.

And once you've cut him out, stop and think about why you're drawn to this kind of man. Is it because your self-esteem is suffering? Are you drawn to his charismatic bad boy nature? Do you find the drama to be exhilerating addition to you normal life? Confront the reasons why you keep getting pulled back into this crap so that you won't be a victim to another bad boy.

ETA: Looks like I crossposted with you, Caroline! Just wanted to say good for you for blocking him. Keep it up! If you start to doubt yourself for even one second, come back here. The Busties will definitely be here for you.
Lookee here...

At least none of us are crazy like this...
auralpoison is a genius. total wise words.
Thanx, Suds. Not a genius, though. Just a voice of experience that learned a few painful lessons in my youth. I used to roll snake eyes, but I've got the odds in the craps game of love down pat now. With age comes wisdom if you're lucky.
rosev, i love it. just renamed my ex in my cellphone. it now says 'zero' and is firmly at the end of the list. there are harsher and uglier applicable names, but this one really describes him best.

good job caroline! block it! onward!
ok, guys... don't know really how to do this, but here goes.
Married 26 years. yesterday he comes in when I'm paying bills and says he doesn't feel like he has a partner anymore and he wants a separation. he wants a divorce.
so I"m still in the HURT and stun phase. pissed hasn't set in yet, but I am sure that it will.
so... advice... what do I do?
two years ago I left my family and friends and moved to the middle of nowhere idaho 'cause he wants to be john wayne and he bought a cattle ranch. I cried for days when our home in Ca sold. it's cold here and he's upset 'cause I dont cut firewood with him or go pull babies out of the mama cows. I never signed on for that.
He has reniged on all his promises... and now he wants out.
the nearest laywer is 5-8 hours drive away. when it's not snowing out.
what happens now
when do I feel better?
WOW. I don't know what to say. (((((Jami))))). That's harsh. I hate to say it, but I don't think you're gonna feel better for a long while. (((((Jami))))).

Where the hell does he expect you to go exactly? Is he expecting you to live in the barn? It's not like you can have an in-house separation (Because he feels that way already. It'd just exascerbate the problem.) & it doesn't sound like apartments are easy to come by in your part of Idaho.

I'm curious. He wanted to be John Wayne, you love him, & went with it. Was the move to Idaho his mid-life crisis? Why did you go with it when it clearly makes you miserable? Why? What was your life before? What did you leave behind? How much did you talk about upending your lives? Did he hear you when you expressed your concerns at the change in lifestyle? Did either of you take in consideration what the location/lifestyle change might do to your relationship in the long run? There are about a million questions I could ask here.

I'm assuming marriage counseling is out of the question since you live in BFE. That's all I can think of. A safe, neutral environment with an outside party to help guide you both in your choices.

I can sympathize. One of the great loves of my life is a rural, cowboy fella. He has a degree in animal husbandry & is more than happy living in Pisswah, shoving his hand up cow vaginas as a vocation. He splits wood, drives a truck, & has a four bedroom country house. He got snowed in a few weeks ago & was hapy as a clam. I'd have gone mad if the relationship had continued. I needed international cuisine, art, theatre, music. A place that doesn't roll up the sidewalks at nine pm. I love him, but I love my sanity more.
hi. my son doesn't want to talk (he's 15) then he said that he knew that it was gonna happen. I went cold. that feeling like when you cut yourself with a knife and just realize it? that feeling. was I really that blind? I was waiting for the 'travel and have fun times'. they were almost here. but he's put us off. he's been busy.
ok... three years ago we started looking for a place to move. we lived near to Sacramento, and the little town had grown so that he could not handle the people and the traffic. skoff if you must, but the population went to over 5,000! so we looked. he found this wonderful little town. Idaho. mountains behind, wildlife, no power lines behind the house. sold our ranches and bought the place. the plan was... give it three years. if I don't love it like he does, we try something else. but be open and give it a try. I do not do tractors or play with the cattle- that was understood. The ranch is 600 acres.
so while he was fixing up the house in Idaho, I was to pack up the house in California. I felt like I was betraying our sons. The two oldest would stay in California. they don't do cowboy. (they have a punk band!) My life before... three boys. what else is there to say. we owned three business at one time. we were down to two: manufacturing and orchards. I did the bookkeeping and accts payable and receiveable, the ordering of supplies, photography and advertising, sales. he did the designing and the backwork.
so I know I procrastinated, but it did get done. The Idaho house is smaller than the Ca house. and older. way older. was a log cabin that was fixed up in the 60's. so I make the best of it. still have not found our good dishes.
anyway, yesterday he was hammering up the walls (remodling was NOT done before I got here - none of it) and he's cussing, so I go to the back room to do bookkeeping ( I hate the cussing), and he comes in and says that he's miserable and we have to change. we don't like the same movies or the same music, we have nothing in common anymore. he says I'm a compulsive shopper and we have no room for my things. he is upset that I still have things in boxes from Ca that have not been unpacked. he wants to be apart. says he'll finnish the house, then he doesn't know what. says he wants a divorce.
now get this... he has the master bedroom (minus one wall that's not up yet) and I have the guest bedroom. since the master bedroom and living room have just been switched, all our things are in boxes. he's angry that the boxes are visible. we just pulled up the carpet for pete's sake!
so, now I'm miserable. sick to my stomach. have not eaten for two days. have appt with laywer on thursday. found one within 2.5 hours.
it is beautiful here, don't get me wrong... but I want shopping closer thank 2.5 hours away! I am tired of elk stew. he's upset that the other wives will go with the husbands to cut firewood, build piviots and pull calves. I never signed up for that. I wasn't even supposed to do payroll, but we've got 4 already.
realization: he's rather disposable. when the dogs got quills in them, he punched them to make them still so he could pull the quills. said he'd just as soon shoot them.
so now he's done with me and he'll move on?
sorry for the long post
For chrissakes, eat. Wearing yourself down isn't gonna help matters. You need to be 100% to deal with this.

Jeez. This sounds like it may be for the best. He punched your dogs? That's just fucked up. It's gonna hurt & it ain't gonna be cheap, but it sounds like you're better off without him.

And like it's your fault that you're not Laura Ingalls Wilder. He'd been married to you for several years, what the hell made him think you'd suddenly become Dr Quinn, Medicine Woman after a move to Idaho? You didn't split wood in California, why would you suddenly start post move?

He made promises he hasn't lived up to. You've put in the time & have yet to reap any benefit. You were flexible when he asked you to be, but now he's not willing to do the same. Quid prop quo time came & he totally punked on you. That's not cool. How exactly does he want things (you) to change when he's not willing to do the same? You're just supposed to turn into frontier wifey to accomodate him? What changes is *he* willing to make to make you happy?

And I gotta say, 5000 people freaked him out? I grew up in a town of about 25,000 people & thought it was ridiculously small. Traffic? I now live in a major metro area, so I know from traffic. Unless all 5000 people were on the road at once, he's a crybaby.
loved the post. thanks. all I hear is his side being drilled into me until I begin to loose myself.
if I haven't already.
He tossed me a tidbit today that I hadn't heard of before ... on Valentine's Day, he was helping out at the local resturant with smoking the prime rib. son's basketball coach, came up to him and told him that he had heard that we were splitting up. My son was telling another player that we were moving back to California.
~wtf?~ I had never heard of that one.
he said he confronted our son, and he denied it.
of course I denied it. asked why coach would go and say such a thing. I know there's a politics thing going, but that's just plain cruel.
and of course, he believes coach, who he has known for one year.
still have not eaten. but I am making myself drink water.
I'm skaken and spent, tired and cold. I wake up with that cold to the pit of your stomach feeling and my heart is pounding.
did tell him that if I pass out, I want to go to a real hospital, not the local one that can't even read an x-ray.
EAT! I don't care if it's just fruit & crackers, EAT! Tachycardia is not something to be messing around with. Your body is sending you a message. FEED ME!

Bringing your son into it? That's not cool. Coach was stirring the turd, I don't care what he thought he heard. It was none of his business & his asking was just him adding fuel to the fire like tiny town's drama queen. No fucking manners that one.
auralpoison, I want to say thanks for posting back. really
You hit it with your rural country fella.
until a year ago, the nearest radio station here shut down at 11pm. it's big stuff that they're 24 hours a day now. not that we even get reception here. nothing. You should have seen the big hoopla over 'viper radar' for the local weather on the news! last year! they had never heard of it before.
ps... the town has 65 people. if that's not living john wayne, I don't know what is.
Hubby loves it here. loves it. we have near 300 cows. 5 horses. elk and deer out the back.
I live for music and theatre and plays and outings with my children. that was my passion. now I don't have anything at all.
sorry, guess I'm the feeling sorry stage.
Hey, we all live & learn. Now it sounds like it's time you live for you. Your kids are old enough to get what's going on & if the fifteen year old already picked up on it, then he's already started to prepare himself mentally. It's not gonna be easy, but at least he has the 411.

The small town schtick is for some, but not all. I moved at eighteen & never looked back. If I want Thai food, I get it. If I want to see Hairspray on stage, I can. If I want to see art that doesn't have a cowboy/old west theme, I can.

I have an uncle that's more than happy to live in a town of 734 people. He could live on burgers & fries & Budweiser. He & my auntie came out here & he wasn't even willing to think about trying something new. And for him, Chinese food is new. He constantly gives me shit & thinks I'm putting on airs because I have an interest in the world around me. I bring a bottle of wine or an imported beer on a holiday & he's needling me. "You coulda bought a twelver of Bud for what you paid for that import shit." Yes, but I have developed this sophisticated thing called a palate. Look into it.
ooooh. would love to see Hairspray.
that thing about the budweiser was too funny. thanks for the smile.
my 20 year old told me that he always thought it would be me to leave him. some insight.
so what's wrong with me?
just wanting the happy ending I guess.
I don't drink or smoke, the good little mormon girl. he even made me quit church. he does the budweiser and the chew, which I despise.
we were good together.
now not
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