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Congrats ccg!
CCG, glad to hear you got some good news! Sounds like you're working to find a happy middle ground.
Congrats ccg! That's great news!
I would like to share in the congrats to you ccg! Good luck!
Thanks, ladies. I remember thinking a week or so ago that maybe if we saw each other less then the time that we did spend together would feel more special. And yesterday he said the exact same thing, without me even bringing it up. That's just one of the ways that we're on the same page. I can't remember every little thing we said but there were a lot of moments like that.

I feel so happy. It might be a bit hard at first not seeing him as often but I'm happy just knowing that he and I are back together. Spending last night with him was so amazing and it will give me something to reflect on until the next time we hang out.
Hi Busties,

I'm not doing so well. To update: well, there's no easy way to say this, but the last time I saw the ex we had sex (I know, I know . . .) He stayed overnight and we snuggled and overall it was very sweet. I took him to a therapy appointment which seemed to go well and he asked me about getting back together, and I told him I needed more time. For a couple weeks we stayed in daily contact, having nice long conversations, writing long emails, etc. Then, though, I could sense his mental health going down the tubes. The sweetness kind of came to a halt. We talked tonight and he said, among other things, that there are times he needs to be alone . . . not just physically alone but like not in a relationship at all. He also said that he thought we had gotten back together. Since then I've been crying and feeling monumentally stupid. I mean, I know this guy will not stick with me. I know I should have figured that out years and years ago. I just cannot figure out how to get past him. I am so in love with him; no one has ever gotten me like him. But I have no one to blame for this but myself. I know until I get up the strength to just walk away from him once and for all, he will always be there, switching like Jekyll and Hyde, loving me and being the kindest boyfriend ever, then just ripping my heart out again. I'm in so much pain right now I don't even know what to do.
Oh, fuck, Odysseylily. That's so awful. It's so hard to want someone who doesn't know what they want. Those people have no idea the pain they cause. I wish I had some kind of magic spell that would stop the pain. Distraction is the only thing besides just getting over it, which takes time and means actually feeling the pain. One great technique I've heard that helps with anything involving confidence and self-esteem is to make a point of saying yes to something you normally wouldn't allow yourself to, and saying no to something you'd normally do out of a sense of obligation. It sounds totally cliche, but it really does give you a boost. You can chant self-affirmation slogans to yourself till you're blue in the face, but there's a point where you have to do something concrete to really get the message through. You deserve better. Really. You do. And you know you do. So live like you do. Prove it. Cancel that coffee date with that really annoying friend who you feel like a crutch for, and take yourself bungee jumping or whalewatching or something.

The most effective distraction I've come up with so far is to move a thousand miles away. Is there someplace you could go? Stay with family or friends for a while? Or just move to some city where you don't know anyone and leave your old life, still all tangled up with him, behind? Or just move across town? Are you still living in the place you used to share? Are you still neighbours? Believe me, I know how hard that is. I was living right next door to my ex's place. Sometimes I'd catch myself gazing absently out my bedroom window, feeling sad, and then I'd realize I was staring at her apartment building. I can see it out of my fucking bedroom window. Couldn't see her apartment, though, thank god. But when I walk by her side of the building I can see in her windows. I can't help but look. I'm determined to be able to handle that when I move back to my hometown in the fall. I don't want to have to move again (it would be the 8th time in 3 years!!!!), but I was just so miserable being in that place right next door to her. And I think I just hate my apartment, too. Maybe I should just find another place. But the one I've got is just so convenient. Fuck.

The pain I've been dealing with for the past 2 months is starting to go away now. But it's being replaced by a combination of numbness and bitterness, which is far from ideal, though I guess it's an improvement. I never wanted to hate her - and I don't, but I definitely feel a strong dislike for her right now - but it's better than missing her. I'd wanted so badly to stay friends with J after the breakup, and she kept telling me she wanted the same, but I'm at a point now where I just don't want anything to do with her. I have no desire to talk to her at all. I never thought I'd say this, but right now I just want to forget her. I want her out of my life. I feel like she has no respect for me. The way she treats me, I really think she thinks I'm just not good enough. She was always a popular girl, and I was always a social outcast. She had a tightly-knit clique back home, but I met her when she was new to town and didn't know anybody, and was only just starting to really figure out who she was. She met me, and I became her clique. We were a clique of 2, I guess. She's also a person who really lives at work - her work life is her life. And when she got this new job and met these new people, they became her clique. And suddenly I just wasn't "right" for her anymore. One of the things she kept saying last time we spoke was that I wouldn't get along with her friends and they wouldn't get along with me, and somehow this proved to her that we were too different to be together. Her friends who I know I have plenty in common with and who she never introduced me to. Who she actually took pains to exclude me from. Of course, she conveniently forgot to consider A, her new girlfriend, who is part of that clique, who I was friends with first and who I introduced her to. I couldn't believe she'd even try to pull such a blatant cop-out like that. If it didn't feel so much like wishful thinking I'd say she was scrambling to justify herself. Oops, I said it anyway.

Hey, can the people who broke things off post in here as well?

Right now it is taking all my willpower to not call AZ Guy and tell him I made a mistake, I will be his girlfriend and move to his city.

He told me he wanted a girlfriend and a future wife, I told him I want a best friend and couldn't be in a relationship right now, maybe in six months. He said he couldn't ignore his feelings for me and go back to being on the back burner, so we said good bye forever tonight.

He said I chose being alone, but I have so much stuff up in the air right now that I feel being someone's girlfriend would ultimately blow up in their face. I am now worried that I made that choice and I'll never find anyone again.

I'm afraid I said goodbye to my soulmate. I don't think I did but the fear is there.

This hurts a lot and I was the one who said no, I was the one who thought things were over, so why am I the one in so much pain? Why do I feel so guilty for causing him pain? And why can't I get over the fear that I'll never meet anyone else? I lost my best friend, my traveling companion and my former lover tonight and I want him back, but I can't have him back.
((lilacwine13)) Post away! I've found it harder to cope with being the dumper than the dumpee, as you have all the grief of separation together with the guilt. You trusted your instincts and made the right choice for you, but knowing that doesn't take the pain away.

((epinephrine)) Moving again would be annoying, but if you're not happy in your current apartment then it might be the best choice. And why handle painful reminders if you can avoid them?

((odysseylily)) You deserve more than 2 weeks of sweet behaviour. I'm sorry if I'm out of line, but this sounds like an emotionally abusive relationship - go back a few months in the archive and read the advice posted to ghosting and others in a similar situation. Don't beat yourself up over the ex-sex, but maybe try to figure how you can avoid it happening again (don't meet at each other's houses, don't meet at night etc). It's not worth the pain.
QUOTE(lilacwine13 @ Jun 28 2009, 08:57 PM) *
Hey, can the people who broke things off post in here as well?

Right now it is taking all my willpower to not call AZ Guy and tell him I made a mistake, I will be his girlfriend and move to his city.

He told me he wanted a girlfriend and a future wife, I told him I want a best friend and couldn't be in a relationship right now, maybe in six months. He said he couldn't ignore his feelings for me and go back to being on the back burner, so we said good bye forever tonight.

He said I chose being alone, but I have so much stuff up in the air right now that I feel being someone's girlfriend would ultimately blow up in their face. I am now worried that I made that choice and I'll never find anyone again.

I'm afraid I said goodbye to my soulmate. I don't think I did but the fear is there.

This hurts a lot and I was the one who said no, I was the one who thought things were over, so why am I the one in so much pain? Why do I feel so guilty for causing him pain? And why can't I get over the fear that I'll never meet anyone else? I lost my best friend, my traveling companion and my former lover tonight and I want him back, but I can't have him back.

I've been in your position, lilac. It's a really hard thing to do, to say goodbye to someone you love because you know it's probably better for you. It took me a lot longer to get over my first long term boyfriend when I broke up with him than it did anyone else. I didn't date for a year and I didn't get back into a serious relationship for more than 3 years. I wanted to go back to him so many times in the first 6-12 months and it was really hard to let go. I needed those 3 years between serious relationships (and 10 months not dating, kissing, etc with ANYONE) to really explore and understand myself before I could give myself wholly to someone new.

Something that really helped me was the fact that I kept a journal throughout our relationship. Whenever I doubted my decision to break up, I read the things I had written when we were together. It's obvious to me now that we had many problems from the beginning that were bigger than both of us. I spent a lot of the time in my journal writing about my doubts and how I wished things COULD be for us, but they never were the way I wanted them to be. Something always felt like it was going unsaid between the two of us. All these things were written while we were still together - hindsight is 20/20.

Those months after I broke things off were really difficult for me because I had to live with the knowledge I was causing someone so much pain just because they loved me. Time did heal many of the wounds, and I'm in a much happier, open, and healthier relationship and as far as I know, so is he.
Hi, I've not been on here before, but I've just been on and you all seem so amazing and supportive. I've been crying so much today and I feel so pathetic, and I can't even talk to any of my friends about it, as they'll just tell me to stop being so stupid about it.

Me and my ex broke up 3 years ago, due to him having feelings for someone else, and I found out afterwards that he cheated on me. This completely broke me, and I completely retreated back into myself for about 5 months, whilst he dated a succession of other girls and drank a lot etc. I'd see him at parties and ignore him, and he'd usually be off his face and try and speak to me.

About 6 months after we broke up I got together with a new guy, the complete opposite to him. As soon as we started dating my ex started trying to speak to me, and I spoke back, trying to be civil and not acting childish by ignoring him anymore. We were in touch for about a month, and then he stopped getting in touch with me. This happened a couple more times.

Me and the nice ex rolleyes.gif broke up after 15 months and my ex had been with a new girl for a long time anyway. I started seeing someone else, but this didn't work out, and then I started getting friendly facebook messages from him. I replied and we stayed in touch that way, until one day he said he really needed some advice and asked if he could phone me.

He said that him and his girlfriend weren't in a good place, and that he couldn't trust her, and had feelings for an ex. He asked me whether he should try to make things work with the ex. I was really angry with him, feeling that he was going to cheat on his girlfriend like he cheated on me, and told him that it was unfair to stay in contact with the ex he had feelings for if he was going to try make things work with his girlfriend.

He asked who he should be with, and I said that if he didn't even think that this ex had any feelings for him, then he may as well try make things work with his girlfriend. We then weren't in touch for the nect few weeks, until we saw each other at a party, and he told me that the week before his girlfriend broke up with him as she didn't love him anymore and had been cheating on him.

We were both a bit drunk, and I went round to his house after the party to watch a film - as I'm writing this I'm thinking how stupid I am! He told me that when he was talking about the ex he still had feelings for he was talking about me - I can't believe I didn't get this now! We kissed and stuff but he said that he didn't want to as he didn't want to hurt me, but I did instigate it. I saw him a few days afterwards and the same thing happened again, and the next day he went on holiday, but he kept sending me facebook messages whilst there. He phoned me the night we got back, and we arranged to meet up a few days later.

When I saw him, he was acting differently, and then when he walked me back, he was telling me how much he missed his ex, and how he was going on a few dates the next week. I told him that I ddn't think we should see each other anymore, and he wasn't happy about this. Tbh I can't be friends with him without getting too emotionally involved and it hurts when he lets me down. He started to kiss me etc, and I let him, I don't why I'm always so stupid around him. He went home, and the next day went on a date with amother girl.

I was on facebook this morning and he started to speak to me. I don't know whether to just delete him from my phone and facebook and have no contact with him, so I can't be hurt more, or if that makes me look childish. I think it's just that we used to be so close, my mum was in hospital when I was with him so I've always been able to talk to him about family stuff and I can't really do that with other people.

I realise how childish this all sounds, I'm really sorry, it's just that I feel so awful, I think I needed to vent.
begin, obviously we don't have all the background of this situation, but this guy sounds like a manipulative asshole. He knows that because you keep letting him back into your life that he's got power over you. Obviously he hasn't changed and is playing the same old games he was when the two of you were together.

My instinct would be to cut him out completely. Every time you give him another chance you're just setting yourself up for more pain. While this guy might have been a great support back when you were originally together, he doesn't seem to have much respect for you or anyone he's with for that matter. I would delete him, tell him you can't be connected to him right now, and take some serious space from him in every way.
I'm with ketto, begin. It sounds like he doesn't know what he wants and if your instinct is to cut things off completely, then by all means do so.

Right now it seems like I can't go five minutes without being reminded of AZ Guy and it sucks. There are so many little things that I want to write to him about, or else a song will play that he liked and I feel horrible. I know he's feeling the same way and it is tough not to call him or write to him. Last night I got stoned off my ass and it was nice. I could even deal with the fact that he was probably coping with the breakup the same way. laugh.gif Tonight I'm just going to stay in, watch Firefly and eat something nutritious, getting high or drunk won't help matters in the long run.
I don't know why, but for the past 2 days I can't stop thinking about J. I haven't seen her in nearly 3 weeks, haven't spoken to her in two, haven't corresponded with her since Thursday (and that was just a Michael Jackson thing). I think it's just PMS, making me all emotional, but it's awful. I feel this sense of despair, and when I try to dissect it with logic it makes no sense, but it won't go away. I'm just so sad and angry right now, and I'd been doing so well before. I really wish I could find a way to think differently about this situation. I wish I just didn't care so much. But I really, really do. I would have been fine if we'd just broken up and stayed single a while. But the fact that she was with someone else two days later changes everything. It changes our breakup, and it changes our relationship. And I cannot get over it. I don't know why. It was 2 months ago. This has been the only thing on my mind for two fucking months. I could tell myself it's just a rebound and it happens all the time and it's not a big deal. But I just feel like it fucked everything up. It's not even like things were so great before. Things had been terrible for 6 months. I'd thought about leaving her every single day. I tried to break up with her weeks before it actually happened.

The worst part is that I know that she's comparing me to A. I can fucking see it. She all but tells me that I'm not as good as A. Things got really bad between us. But before that, they were good. They were really good. And I can't stand that she's devaluing it, that she shares the same memories I do and is saying "oh well, I've got something better now." It makes me feel so fucking empty I could die. I feel like she's erasing it. I'm not trying to live in the past, and I was ready to move on, but this is just so...wrong. It's awful. I don't even know how it could feel this bad.

Could someone explain rebounds to me, please? And maybe how to deal with someone rebounding on you? I'm not the sort of person to jump from one relationship into another and I really don't get it. Maybe if I understood it wouldn't hurt so much. I feel like I'm falling apart right now.
Article on rebounds.

I know it doesn't feel this way, but her new relationship really has nothing to do with what happened between you two. It's tacky and hurtful, but it doesn't change what you had. J doesn't sound like the introspective type, so she deals with this in a very different way to you.

It's natural to compare your shiny new partner favourably to the ex, especially if the break-up wasn't great. Bear in mind that comparisons go both ways - there are going to be times when A doesn't come out best (and I bet that's something A worries about, given how long you two were together).

You know that the break-up was for the best. I think you're reading too much into the speed of her moving on - it has nothing to do with her feelings for you, and everything to do with the sort of person she is.

You should be prepared for the fact that this might not be a rebound - it's possible this could be serious, and it was just chance that it happened so quickly. That still won't mean anything about your relationship.

Can you make a list of all the annoying things about her that you're glad A has to deal with instead of you? I think you need to distract yourself from thinking about it all, or you'll drive yourself crazy. Get out of the house, make plans with other people, go do fun stuff that she wouldn't have wanted to do.

I think you're doing really well!
Thanks, Persiflager. Where'd you find Breakup Girl? It's a cool idea. I'll have to spend some more time on that site.

J seems to think that this relationship is serious. Maybe it's tacky of me to say this, but she's got some really huge issues that she hasn't resolved and I really can't see this lasting. I hope she doesn't break A's heart, too. A's a sweet girl who deserves better than to be the rebound of a crazy narcissist. I actually did make a list of her faults. It's posted a few pages back. I'm the only person who she treats the way she does, though. Maybe nobody sees those faults but me. She's a really popular girl. Everyone loves her. It's gone to her head.

I know I'll eventually be able to distance myself enough from this relationship that it won't hurt anymore. But right now it still does. And I'm all emotional and PMSy right now, which makes it 20 times worse. I feel like a walking nerve. I've been spending a lot of time alone lately because I'm in a new city and I don't know anyone, and that's good because I can be one of those people who's never alone, but I need people, too. I have to start going out and socializing. I finally got a job (yay!), so I'll meet some people there, but I think I'll start volunteering, too. That's a great way to meet people.
Thanks ketto and lilac, I just keep telling myself that I'm worth better and that cutting him out is the best option - when everything's ok with him it's amazing, but when it's not I'm a wreck.

I got myself out of the house, and I'm going out later, just trying to surround myself with friends that are good for me. It's his birthday, and he kept mentioning when we spoke last on the weekend that he was going out for a date that night, urgh can't stop thinking about it!

Lilac I know what you mean about the wanting to talk to them! Me and the ex have so much in common that I don't have with my friends, we have the same wierd sense of humour and can talk for hours about nothing in particular, I think that's what makes this so hard, the fact that sometimes I feel that he's the only one who gets me.

Well done on getting a job epinephrine! I'm going to go down to the volunteering centre tomorrow too, I can't find a paying job, and all this spare time that I have at the moment is making me mopey sad.gif
epi, from what you're saying I'm thinking that maybe J puts on a facade for the people around her. You two lived together so you were able to see her when she wasn't "on". You saw the good and the bad.

Also, from what you've said I don't think that she'll have a successful relationship until she gets all of her own issues worked out. I doubt that her new relationship will last but I know that you can't really go around saying that without sounding like the bitter ex. I think it's important to remember that no one can fix her issues except herself.
Thanks, guys. Wow. That sucked. A huge depression just dropped on me out of nowhere. Like the mud puddle in the Robert Munsch book. But I'm crawling out of it. J made me feel really horrible about myself and I'm learning how to feel good about myself again. Interestingly, the more depressed I was, the more I wanted to talk to her. When I'm feeling ok, I could care less. Cutting her out of my life was the hardest decision I ever made. I still don't know if it was the right decision. I shouldn't even be thinking of it that way, though. The important thing is that I made a decision one way or another rather than torturing myself by trying to go both ways and have everything - the space and the closeness. I believe that, in a bad situation, there are no good solutions. I was in a situation where both of my choices sucked. Stick around and try to be friends with the girl who broke my heart while she carries on with someone else, or cut her out completely and lose my closest friend, along with all my hopes for resolving this with dignity. I thought I could make a happy medium of the two - maintain a friendly relationship with her at a comfortable distance - and that really sounded the most sensible to me, but it just wasn't working. I don't know how not to be hurt by what happened, and as long as I'm still feeling hurt we will never have peace as friends. I thought I'd be able to get over the hurt better by being friends with her, working through it with her, and for a while that seemed to be working, but then things got bad again and now I really don't feel like she's on my side. So I have to do it alone. And it's such a shock to my system to feel like this. I'd gotten so used to the idea of having a companion, someone who'd always be there for me. I'd gotten used to the idea of her being there for me. She says she's there for me, but I really don't feel like she is.

I really wish I didn't have to choose between counselling and moving. I could really have used a session with my wonderful new counsellor this week. I felt like I was fucking losing it. I still kind of do. I feel like my thoughts are frantically bouncing around and I have no control over them and how they make me feel. I'm trying so hard to assess my situation calmly and logically so I can kind of detatch myself a little from it, but I'm having a really hard time doing that. I feel like that's what I'm lacking most - that sense of objective detatchment that makes all the emotions less important and less painful.

(((((lilac, odysseylily and begin-to-hope))))) Hope you guys are doing ok.
Epinephrine, I'm so glad that you're starting to feel good about yourself again, and I hope that you're doing ok.

I'm just trying to keep myself busy, it's difficult when I keep running into mutual friends though! I went out the night before last with some friends for a few drinks and his friend came and talked to me about how annoyed he was that he'd gone out with some girl on his birthday, and how he'd had a bbq and not invited him. I stood there thinking, leave me alone, I've gone out to not think about him!

I just feel so stupid constantly for letting him back into my life just for him to hurt me again. I hate how he always gets the best of me. The fact that he's out with other girls makes me feel awful, I keep comparing myself to them, even though I know it's irrational and pathetic.

I'm trying to get some volunteering sorted, and have been exercising a lot. I think it helps that it's kickboxing! My sleeps not great which I don't think helps, nor the fact that I'm already being treated for depression, and I'm inbetween therapists at the moment. I hate waiting lists!
BTH, I kickbox, too! Isn't it great? Sucks that I had to leave my gym behind when I left. I really, really miss it. Working out alone is boring. And I forgot to bring my kickboxing gear. I'm such an idiot.

I talked to my ex last night. My ex-boyfriend, not J. We got together when I was 16 and stayed together 2 1/2 years. He was my first love, and he was really good to me, but I'm struck by how over him I am. And he's still not over me. We've been broken up for 4 years now. Longer than we were together. He still misses me and dates girls who remind him of me, but, according to him, everyone else pales in comparison. It's really sad. I hope to god I don't end up like that.
I'm poor at the moment with having no job, and having to substitute a gym for a workout dvd - it's so not the same! The instructor on it always says 'imagine someone you really don't like right now', and I'm always a bit like, 'so not thinking about M right now!'

I had a night in with friends last night, drank and watched dvds, but then started to feel really awful about him, and burst into tears. I think it was partly the alcohol, but I just felt so alone, it was awful. I think it's partly that although I haven't been in contact with him, and have ignored him, he's barely tried to get in contact with me. It sounds uber-pathetic, but it's like I'm not being in contact with him as he always messes me about and hurts me, but he isn't in contact with me, as he just can't be bothered, and probably has better offers.

I'm off out for a friends birthday tonight, and I'm so not looking forward to it, all my friends seem to be in couples at the moment, it really doesn't help.

Wierdly his friend sent me a really random text today, I haven't replied as I don't even know what to say, it's not like me and his friend get along particularly well, so I don't know why he sent it unsure.gif

Don't worry Epinephrine I'm sure you won't end up like that!
I was going to send J an email telling her I was doing fine and I'd let her know when I was ready to talk, because I knew she'd be trying to contact me soon, but I really didn't want to contact her at all and I kept putting it off, and she beat me to it. I just got an email from her asking me how I was doing. So I wrote back that I'm doing fine, having space is doing me a lot of good, and I'll talk to her when I'm ready. I wish I'd just taken control of the situation from the start and sent the damn email. I hate that I let her make another decision for me. I'm not ready to talk, but I'm not about to play games and give her the silent treatment, either. That's just one more icky thing to add to the list of icky things that have happened to our relationship. One of the reasons this whole shitshow got so out of control is because, after she scared the shit out of me by breaking up with me out of nowhere last year, I was really passive about everything. I let J do whatever she wanted with me. She got to decide when we were off and when we were on. All I wanted was to be able to get along with her, know where we stood with each other, and have some kind of peace, even if it was all on her terms. And it just made everything so much worse. She lost all respect for me, and I lost all my respect for myself. I felt so powerless. I can't let this happen anymore. I'm not letting her decide when we're talking again.

Fuck. This is all so unnatural to me. I'm not equipped with the social intelligence to navigate all this interpersonal shit. I hate doing this. It's making me so anxious. All I can see is more trouble. I can't talk to her because it's too risky, but I can't just cut her out because it's awkward and it's not what either of us wants. I have to keep reminding myself that this is a means to an end, and not just the end.

So that was kinda sucky, but at least it's over and dealt with. I made it pretty clear that we'll talk again when I feel up to it. Now I won't have that sense of dread every time I see a new message in my inbox, and I can just relax and focus on what I need to do. I needed a boost, so I bought a big bottle of St. John's Wort today, thinking that even if it doesn't work, a placebo effect would be better than nothing. Actually, I'd prefer a placebo, because at least I'd be feeling better naturally and not because I'd been medicated. My new job sucks, but at least it's a distraction and I'm making money (to spend on important things like wine and lattes and makeup). I'm trying to make up my mind about where to put my new tattoo and I'm hoping to get it this month.

How's everyone else doing?
I'm not doing good. You weren't out of line at all, Persiflager, I quite agree. I did read advice to Ghosting before I ever started posting here, but maybe I should check it out again. Epinephrine, that whole letting your ex decide the terms of your relationship, that's what happened to me too. I realized recently that I've ALWAYS been there for him when he decided he needed me, but he hasn't always been there for me. He's not there for me now, in fact.

So here's what's been going on with me. Actually very shortly after I posted that last message I had a heart-to-heart with the ex. He seemed very responsive even though he was in his depressive phase and insisted that we could in fact be together. Several days ago he asked me to get back together with him, telling me that he is staying in therapy and I'm so important to him, blah blah blah. I decided to accept, stupidly believing him, mainly thinking we had a chance because he was still in therapy. Well, a couple days later he texted me in the afternoon saying he was glad we were back together. That night he dumped me.

He said that we shouldn't talk for a while, if ever. Those were his exact words. Of course I got 2 emails, a facebook message, and 2 texts from him over the next couple days. For the first time I completely ignored him, not responding to anything at all. It was a good plan. This morning though he left me a voicemail, and after listening to it I guess I couldn't hold out any longer and I called him back. He told me his is moving to Wyoming (we live in Wisconsin now) in 3 or 4 months. His family is, I assume, paying for it because they want him to move there really badly. Given how poor we each are, we will definitely never see each other again. I can't go to Wyoming and I certainly can't see him ever coming back to Wisconsin. I wish I had never called him back because knowing I will definitely never see him again has completely broken me. I have literally been sobbing all day. I don't know what to do with myself. He's an emotionally abusive shit, I'm trying to accept that that's the reality of it, even though I don't believe he does it deliberately. But still, the four amazing years we had together before this one shitty year mean that I'm still completely in love with him. We talked a bit today but I sent him a weepy email tonight telling him that I can't speak to him anymore. I will see him again before he moves, but that's all I can do, and I'm not even sure I can do that. If I hadn't called him back this morning I wouldn't know that he was moving.

I guess what hurts the most is that I know, I KNOW we could still be together and happy if he would get his ass into couples counseling with me. I think his main problem (other than insanity) is that he needs lots and lots of space to himself. But I am exactly the same way. He could take off and travel for months on his own and I'd be happy as a clam because I'd have my own time too. He doesn't seem to get this. I don't understand what changed over the last, what, less than two weeks. he was saying that I'm so important to him, more important than anything else, and we can be together. Sure he was depressed but it's not like anything happened that warranted him dumping me again.

I have a few close male friends who aren't close to my ex, and they all say he's a shit and it's good that he's moving and I should never talk to him again. My one close female friend, who used to live with my ex (platonically) and introduced us, just gave this big sigh and said that she knows that he loves me.

Oh, and unrelated, but making my life a little more shitty, one of the above close male friends, the only person who lives close enough to me to hang out, has decided that he wants to do me. It's not even like this could blossom into a relationship when I'm ready for one, because he's just a massive player.

I know this is ungodly long, I just had a lot to say I guess. I cannot remember ever feeling worse in my life.

I just read through old posts and it kind of helped to realize how intense so many relationships have been. I guess my biggest fear right now is that I will never get over him. I realized that I have thought of him as basically my husband even though we haven't gotten married. I remember just after we got engaged he told me how excited he was that he could call me his fiancee, and that he couldn't wait to call me his wife, to introduce me as his wife. I could hear the grin in his voice.

Fuuuuuuuuck. I suppose I'll go cry myself to sleep now.

He's such a piece of shit. I'm an amazing cook, good in the sack, gave him more freedom than almost any girl I can think of would have, good looking, supportive, faithful, and I treat him like gold. Why the fuck doesn't he want me?

(just edited it cause I had more thoughts)
(((odysseylily))) This guy has made you feel like utter crap and destroyed your self-esteem, and you will feel better once he's out of your life. You don't need to make sense of this to be able to start moving on. I'm curious, what were you like before you guys got together? Do you think he's changed the way you behave and/or view yourself?

((epinephrine)) Yay for making money! Are your co-workers nice? And well done on making the decision to email J. It doesn't matter that she beat you to the punch, the important thing is that it's done. If she emails again and you don't want to reply, I think it would be perfectly acceptable to put it aside until you deel ready to contact her. It wouldn't be playing games, you'd be doing exactly what you told her you would do.
Odysseylily, I know exactly how you feel. But you know there's nothing wrong with you. This guy has a problem that has apparently made it impossible for him to be in a relationship. It sounds like he has no clue what he wants, which means his emotions about the situation are intense and scary, too. He's not experiencing the same things you are, because he was never hurt like you were, but take it from me, a person doesn't just up and move like that unless they really care about what's happening. There's no reason to think you'll never see each other again - life is chaotic and people end up in all kinds of places they didn't expect to. Unless you're 80 and housebound, anything is possible. But what was happening between you guys was really toxic and the less opportunity you have to keep going down that road the better. It looks like he recognizes that something's fucked up and he wasnts to go work his issues out in a less complicated environment. This is good. It means he cares, he knows he fucked up, he wants to get better, and you'll have the space to get over him. Your self-esteem is completely shattered right now, and there's no way to make that not hurt. So just focus on that for now. Once you have your self-esteem back, everything else will start to sort itelf out.

So J emailed me back an hour or two after I replied to her. I would have just ignored it, but she told me her friend's mom died, so I felt compelled to say something. I don't plan on corresponding with her again until I'm more settled and comfortable with where my life is right now. The balance in my life is so fragile and tenuous right now and she just completely disrupts it. I'll start talking to her again when I'm stronger.
That's good, Epinephrine! Honestly, I remember reading this board ages ago and noticing how often no contact was recommended, and I always thought I couldn't possibly do that, but I realize now that it's definitely the best thing.
Persiflager, I agree with what you said. Before we met, actually, I was kind of lost. For a long time he was a great influence on me and really taught me about my own control over situations, my own kind of internal power and stuff. I think that's why he still has such a huge influence on me, even though it's now in a negative way. I think at first my changes in behavior and how I view myself were all really good, I became a lot stronger and comfortable in my skin. Over the years though, things changed so subtly into disapproval (on his part) that I'm finding myself having to turn back into that strong person again. This time without his help. It's ok, I think I will be better off, truly finding my own way this time. Thank you, guys, for the advice. I really need to hear that kind of kick-in-the-ass (in a good way!) stuff.

I am feeling quite a bit better today. Still really sad, but better. There's this little voice inside me telling me that I will be healthier and better off with him farther away, you know, outside of his circle of influence. It's still the minority of my feelings about the situation but at least it's there. I am trying to come to terms with what an asshole he is. He does make me feel like shit, and no matter what the reason the result is the same. I cannot excuse him for that.

Today I biked like 10-15 miles. It was truly the best help for this situation. I thought about him a lot but everytime there were nagging sad little thoughts I just pedaled faster and it was like the wind was pushing my sadness away and I was leaving him behind.
Just came in to say; this is awesome: 'I thought about him a lot but everytime there were nagging sad little thoughts I just pedaled faster and it was like the wind was pushing my sadness away and I was leaving him behind.'

Good for you. Odysseylily and epinephrine, your posts already sound so much stronger; you guys are getting through this, and it shows.
Thanks Sybarite! I had a really good day yesterday, too. Today I'm not feeling as strong, unfortunately. Got an email from the ex saying that if he had any interest in having a girlfriend in the next 2-3 years we would still be together. That hurt. I curled up and cried for a while today. He sent that email in response to a really long one I had sent him, and that was really all he had to say. I'm not going to respond and I'm not going to have any contact with him for a while. I think it will be much healthier for me that way.

Yesterday I went on a trip with my friend who has a crush on me. He's a lot of fun to spend time with. I wish he wasn't such a player. Still, it's been a good distraction. Kind of a bad situation though; I'm not sure what to do about it.

How is everybody doing?
Thanks, Sybarite.

I'm doing a little better than I was last week. I started taking St. John's Wort to take the edge off all the bad feelings and help me to break this cycle of depression I'm in right now. Unfortunately, while it does provide me with distraction and income, my new job is absolutely loathesome. It sucks. I hate it. But it's damn convenient, and it gets me riding my bike every day, which is really important and seems to be really helping to keep me balanced. I second what Sybarite said, Odysseylily - I love what you said about biking away from your ex. I think of it every time I ride my bike!

I'm having such confusing thoughts about J. I know I have to learn to forgive her if I'm going to move on. But I just don't feel like I can forigve her yet. I don't even know how. The more time I have to think about it, the more I build up the betrayal and shittiness that I experienced with her. Part of me wants to resolve it by being friends and just being strong and rebuilding on top of the shittiness, and feels as if this is possible, but another part of me feels so utterly betrayed that I can't imagine what I'd want to be her friend for. I have these two totally different inclinations about the whole issue and it's tearing me in half. It's been like that ever since things started going downhill last fall. I spend so much time just going over every little detail, thinking about how badly she treated me while I tried to patch things up all the time, and I just get more and more bitter towards her. The more time I spend thinking about it, the more things I rememer that I'd originally just glossed over or rationalized away. It's like she's hurting me all over again. But on the other hand there's a persistent little voice in my head that keeps telling me to call her, that it's not as bad as I think, that I'm prolonging the pain by isolating myself from her so nothing gets resolved, that it'll all get better if I call her and we have a nice little conversation as friends. Right now the angry voice is winning. I don't think she has anything to offer me. I've completely lost my compass with her. I just don't know where to draw the line anymore. I don't know what to talk about with her and how I should feel about the things she says.
Well, she emailed me again. I don't know what to do. I don't want to just cave in and try to please her, but she may have something important she wants to talk about and I told her that, even though I need space, I'd be there for her if she really needed me. She's emailed me 5 or 6 times in the past month. I've emailed her twice, both times just a quick response, and I think I made it pretty clear I don't feel up to talking. I don't feel like I'm over her yet. I'm too angry to be over her. The best thing that can happen if I talk to her is I'll be reassured that she does love me and she misses me and doesn't want to hurt me and it'll take some of my anger away, make me feel more comfortable with where I'm at right now. At worst, she'll say a bunch of insensitive things that make me feel even more like I never meant anything to her and our whole relationship was a lie and I'll feel worse. I don't know what to do.
QUOTE(epinephrine @ Jul 19 2009, 10:30 AM) *
I don't want to just cave in and try to please her, but she may have something important she wants to talk about and I told her that, even though I need space, I'd be there for her if she really needed me.

Epi, I would be worried that the pattern of you being there for her and her selfishness is continuing post breakup. I think she needs to respect your space and give you breathing room. What are the nature of the emails? Just seeing what's up or why haven't you called me type stuff? From what you've shared, it doesn't sound like the talks you've had are going anywhere, but, pick apart your former relationship with her. That's just my thoughts. My ex would do the same thing with me, calling constantly, picking fights over anything, txting...whatever to keep me engaged. I just stopped responding to her. So, you know, you don't have to respond to those emails. You don't have to respond every time she sends an email or calls freaking out because she is starting to realize the nature of your relationship with her has changed. Her emails are really more a clear sign of her attempts to try to control the situation. I guess I'm just getting annoyed for you.

I hope you are doing better. It sounds like you are doing what you need to, as confusing as it is, to take care of yourself. (((epi)))
epi, what you've written reminds me so much of the song You Keep Me Hanging On by The Supremes. I know it might sound cheesy but seriously, look at the lyrics.

Set me free, why don't cha babe
Get out my life, why don't cha babe
'Cause you don't really love me
You just keep me hangin' on
You don't really need me
But you keep me hangin' on

Why do you keep a coming around
Playing with my heart?
Why don't you get out of my life
And let me make a new start?
Let me get over you
The way you've gotten over me

Set me free, why don't cha babe
Let me be, why don't cha babe
'Cause you don't really love me
You just keep me hangin' on
Now you don't really want me
You just keep me hangin' on

You say although we broke up
You still wanna be just friends
But how can we still be friends
When seeing you only breaks my heart again
And there ain't nothing I can do about it

Woo, set me free, why don't cha babe
Woo, get out my life, why don't cha babe
Set me free, why don't cha babe
Get out my life, why don't cha babe

You claim you still care for me
But your heart and soul needs to be free
Now that you've got your freedom
You wanna still hold on to me
You don't want me for yourself
So let me find somebody else Hey!

Why don't you be a man about it
And set me free
Now you don't care a thing about me
You're just using me
Go on, get out, get out of my life
And let me sleep at night
'Cause you don't really love me
You just keep me hangin' on...

I know you said that you wanted to be there for her if she really needs you but seriously, if she's in a bad way then she has other people who can take care of her, namely her new gf. I think that unless you end all communication with her that you're just going to keep getting sucked back into this bad situation. She was the one who broke up with you so she now has to deal with the consequences, which are not having you in her life.

Also, the part of those lyrics that really stick out to me are "Let me get over you the way you've gotten over me". From all that you've told us, this girl sounds totally manipulative. She says that she doesn't want you and yet it's obvious that she still wants to have control over you. If I were you I would send her an email that says you will not contact her under any circumstances until you are ready and all future emails from her will be ignored accordingly. Don't let her control you anymore!
Aw, (((((Epi))))).

I agree with those that came before: there is def a pattern here. You've said that you should have broken up long before you did but that you both hung on, obviously for diff reasons. She was too lazy/insecure/whatever to walk away & you really wanted things to work out & didn't want to give up even though you knew it was over. Or at least that's how it sounds to me.

Here is what you do: Nothing. Do not respond no matter how short or cursory the response may be. Contact is contact & that is what she wants from you. The knowledge that she still has the power to get you to do what she wants you to do with minimum effort on her part? Is le crack. Ignore her for your own sanity & for the sake of your slowly mending heart. She doesn't have anything "important" to talk to you about. For whatever reason, she is feelling insecure in her new 'ship right now & she's using you as a security blanket. If you keep letting her suck you back into thinking about her all the time, she's just going to keep doing it simply because she can. It boosts her ego & it keeps you from getting over her because there will always be that "she still needs ME" lingering in the back of your mind. She doesn't need you, she's got a new gf & should be concentrating on making that work/sharing with her instead of fucking with your head. Because that is exactly what she's been doing. You are waaaaaay too fantastic for that petty manipulative bullshit. Cut off all contact & give yourself time to grieve & to heal. If she doesn't understand that? Then fuck her, she wasn't good enough for you in the first place.

I know this sucks & is painful, but you'll be in a much better place much faster if you let her worry about her own damned self & you take care of who is important here: YOU. You're a strong, smart, lovable, good cookie with a lot of love to give . . . to the right person. And this gal? Isn't her.

That's my .02 anyways. Good luck & stay strong!
Epi, when it comes to forgiving her, I think you need time. My second semi-serious relationship was with a guy who eventually just dropped me out of the blue and started saying really shitty things about me. For a long time, I was really furious with him. Now, though, I have no hard feelings for him whatsoever - but that's because it's been years and so much has happened between then and now, I've had other relationships (better ones and worse ones). Eventually you'll be able to forgive her, but very possibly not until it stops hurting so much. I think that anger, that not being able to forgive, is kind of a good thing at first. If it was a really long time and you couldn't let go, then I'd worry. But now I think it's your mind's way of stepping away from the situation. I hope that makes sense. Also, I second what AP said, especially this: "For whatever reason, she is feelling insecure in her new 'ship right now & she's using you as a security blanket."

Busties, I need a kick in the pants or something. I'm sad again. The last contact with the ex was about 2 weeks ago, we agreed to be on friendly terms and not discuss our relationship. I just had my birthday and he didn't say happy birthday, which was weird because 2 years ago we were broken up on my birthday and he wished me a happy one then. Although I guess he was trying to get me back then, but still. We agreed to be friends this time, and ignoring my birthday wasn't a friendly thing to do.

So yesterday I got a terse email from him where he said he was mailing my keys to me, he would never contact me again, and for me to never contact him. What the fuck. We hadn't even spoken in 2 weeks, and he goes out of his way to say he never wants to talk to me again. So I kind of lost my shit and left him a couple messages asking what I had done. Cause I know I hadn't done anything. He sent me another email this morning saying that I didn't do anything, but please just never contact him again.

I am really kind of lost here. The only explanations I can think of are that he has a new girlfriend, or that he's being bipolar again (or both). Help, advice, please? I know he's being a jerk, so why do I feel SO bad over him?
((epinephrine)) I can't see any good coming of responding to her emails. There'll be plenty of time later to get in touch if you want to be friends - right now, it's just going to hurt you. If you keep responding, she won't take your wish for no contact seriously, as she'll see that you don't really mean it.

((odysseylily)) It sucks that this has come out of the blue, but I'm not sure that he is being a jerk. To be honest, he's doing what we're advising epinephrine to do! He's obviously not over you and he's realised that he needs time and space to move on. It's horrible for you because he's rejecting you as a friend as well as a lover, but I honestly think this could be a good thing for both of you.
Thanks, guys. I wanted to take a few days to think about things before responding. I think you're right - there's not much chance that I stand to gain anything from talking to her that I couldn't gain later. If there's anything we've got for each other, it's time.

God, I still have such doubts, though. That's what's throwing me off. When this first happened, I always felt better after talking to J. She helped me to deal with it, to realize that it wasn't the end of the world. And then that just stopped working, and I started to feel like she was a mean horrible troll and I was a hapless victim. Now nothing I do feels right. I can't talk to her, and I can't cut her out. Talking to her is really risky, because she can really be an asshole and I still haven't gotten over her, but I'm scared that I'm missing out on something that could possibly be really healing. I don't like having all these angry feelings toward J. I don't like hiding from her, avoiding her memory, ignoring her emails. I want to feel the way I did when we first broke up - I felt so relieved that it was finally dealt with, and we were getting along better than we had in months. I was so happy and optimistic. I hate that the fact that she started seeing someone else was enough to send me into a complete tailspin. But it was only when I found out she was already with someone else that it truly sunk in just how bad things had gotten, how little respect she had left for me. That was when I realized, like you so astutely pointed out, Aural, that we'd been in the relationship for completely different reasons. All my happy memories from before, all the parts of my identity that had her all wraped up in them, were suddenly tainted, and this huge void opened where they used to be. I wish I could just accept it and move on, but I'm too much of a thinker for that. It's not in my nature to just leave things alone. I have to dissect them and label all their parts and put them away all nice and neat. And the mental housecleaning I have to do right now is horrifying. I wish things could be simpler. People rebound all the time. A lot of people expect it, take it for granted. It's like the first thing people ask after a breakup: "so, are you dating again?" Why does it have to be so hard for me?

I feel like I need to start working on my priorities. Up till now, my top priority has been to repair my friendship with J so I can keep her in my life and stop feeling rejected. Now I'm starting to question that, and it's a massive internal paradigm shift. It's painful and confusing and exhausting, and I hate it. But the harder choice is always the better one, and this is certainly harder. So I guess I just have to trust that I'm doing the right thing by ignoring her. It's hard, though, when I imagine her reaction. I don't think this is something she'd take well. There's a chance that when I feel ready to talk to her and start trying to be friends again she'll just be spiteful about it.

But you're right. If this doesn't work out, it clearly means she's just not good enough for me, that she doesn't understand or respect me.

Um, Ghosting? We're not total jerkfaces. We are not going to judge you. This here is all about support. So don't be a stranger, dig?

And the emoticon showed up because that's what happens when you try to make point b.
I'm glad you're back, ghosting! I give you permission to make out with as many people as you want smile.gif And it's great to hear about the good relationship you have with your ex-husband.
Talking about this is probably the hardest thing for me. On one side, I want to, but then part of me always thinks that I'm leaving out important details that would change people's perceptions on my story.

Almost 2 years ago, I met a guy at my friend's going away party. I'm still not sure what it was about him, but I really dug him. Because he was friends with my friends boyfriend, we saw eachother more often and started talking. He was hung up on his ex girlfriend, and though he warned me, I pursued. Bad idea. Four months later, his ex wanted to get back together, and I was left in the dirt.

Fast foward to September of last year. I'm finishing up college, trying to better myself and move on, when I get a random message from him. Trouble in paradise. Can we talk. I agree, because I never wanted to be the resentful bitch. I'm always nice. Too nice. He tells me they're having problems. I say I told you so. Evenutally, she dumps him, and a few weeks after that we start hanging out again. It wasn't until November that we started sleeping together again. For the last 8 months I have been doing everything in my power to be supportive and understanding. I understand that you're hurt. I'm understand that you're afraid to commit to someone again. He lost his job in February, and just recently got another one in June. I have been financially helping him out that entire time. The last few weeks I've been feeling rather neglected. He's been really busy with said new job, plus he was a performer in a play for the last week and a half. I barely saw him, so, because of that and many other reasons, I went to his house early, before work, and slipped a note under the door. I really wanted to handle it in person because I'm trying to be mature about it, but there was no time.

Now it's coming out in the wash that he's been seeing other people, and even slept with some broad last month. Of course this hasn't come from his mouth, just other people. Other people that may not like him so much. My friends never did approve of the relationship. Because of what he did to me before, and the way they witnessed him speaking to me; like I was stupid. He also had an aweful habit of making fun of my body. Big ass, no tits, hairy, skeleton-like...etc. You're probably wondering why I stayed with this guy. I was actually hoping that if I was nice enough, if I did enough, if I could just make him see...he wouldn't be afraid anymore. Then we could insert a happily ever after.

Anyways, I'm pissed and sick to my stomach, as one could imagine. No, we never talked about being exclusive, but the expectation was always there, for the both of us. At least that's what I thought. He doesn't know what I've heard yet because I haven't been able to get a hold of him. Work, then he's teaching a theatre workshop. Self righteous guy who doesn't believe in the use of cell phones either. Oh, and I forgot to mention he leaves tomorrow for 2 months for a gig working with some girl who wants in his pants. Before shit hit the fan, I voiced my jealousy and concern about it. He never did say anything to reassure me. Probably because he's porking her too.

I don't know how to move on from this. I don't know how not to look in the mirror and blame myself for it not working. I hate when people do that because it takes two, but when it happens to you, all logic goes out the window. I gave him everything I had. How do you get over that?
Wow, stereotypical, what an assface!

First things first - how much money does he owe you? Can you afford to walk away?

And, sorry to have to bring this up, but if he's been sleeping with other people then you need to get yourself tested sad.gif

Because it bears repeating, I've quoted roseviolet's post from a few months ago:

I'm guessing you've been to the zoo before. So you've probably walked into that one building where they keep the monkeys. And the first thing that hits you when you walk in is the STENCH. It's terrible! It smells soooooo bad! You feel tempted to leave, but you stay. The longer you stay in the monkey house, the less you notice the smell until eventually you don't notice it at all anymore.

And I think that's part of the problem. You've been in the monkey house too long. You don't usually remember that a better world is just waiting out there for you - a place where you can breathe easier than you imagined possible. It's all waiting for you. You just have to take those steps. You need to walk out & fill your lungs with the sweet fresh air of freedom. And then you must make sure you DON'T turn around & go back into that monkey house!!!

I know that deep down there is a voice inside of you that is crying out, begging you to leave. This is a good voice. A voice that is speaking out of pure love for you. This is the voice that doesn't want you to walk on eggshells anymore. This is the voice that misses your laughter. This is the voice that wants to feel you walking tall. Listen to that voice. It's always with you.

And stay out of the monkey house! Tell yourself that every time you're tempted to communicate with him. STAY OUT OF THE MONKEY HOUSE!!!!
As much as I want to say "Hey asshole! You owe me X amount of dollars for all the shit I paid for." But in all honesty, I did those things out of love, never with the intention that I would be paid back. Financially speaking anyways. It wouldn't ease my pain in any case, I would just feel like I'm being vindictive.

I was supposed to see him tonight, to talk about the break-up, but that was before all this other stuff came up. I'm not sure how he'll react to being accused of sleeping with other chicks. Probably defensive. It makes me sick to think I even have to get an STD test. I'm still in denial.

The monkey analogy is pretty awesome and very true. I spent these past 8 months ignoring things that normally would make me not give someone the time of day. His drinking, general lack of respect, selfishness, etc. I knew better, but I'm loyal. I told him I was never going to let him fall, and I meant it, within reason.

So I did end up seeing him that night. He called when he was done having dinner with friends. I swear, I have never shook so much in my life.

I got to his place around 10:30 pm. His roommate was home with a guest, so he asked if I wanted to go for a walk. I agreed. We walked in silence for a while, not looking at eachother. Finally I said that I wasn't good at these sorts of things and didn't know where to start. He didn't know either. It's hard to remember what was said, maybe I just don't want to because now it seems so insincere. In light of the rumours, his tears seemed real and I wasn't so sure I was making the right decision. I still don't. Sounds stupid. I mean, why on earth would I want to stay with someone who can't hold my hand, tell me I'm beautiful, or return my love? Another reason I ended it is because he was going on this tour with a theatre group, and the lead actor has a huge thing for him. I couldn't trust that nothing would happen between the two of them.

Then there are the rumours. I asked him about them later, after things had cooled down. Mostly I waited so long because I was scared. Scared how he'd react to being accused. Scared to hear what he had to say. His response was what I was expecting "No." Followed by, "T, that's messed up." Nothing more was said. I wasn't sure it really mattered. I don't believe him. I'm still seeking the "truth" but trying to find out through reliable sources, rather than hearing it from a mutal friend of ours who is notorious for twisting people's words just to create drama. He never liked us being together, but was more on my side than on his. I sent a message to one of the people that was there the night the apparent sex had happened. I'm hoping I appealed to his sensitive side and he'll be honest with me. I'm not sure what I'm going to do if he won't tell me anything.

The worst part is, all the reasons I decided to break up with him are now over shadowed by these accusations. Instead of just being hurt and dissapointed, now I'm those things and so very much more.
Congratulations, stereotypical! It sounds like it went as well as it could, Well done on being mature, and speaking to him face to face.

Are you sure you really want 'truth'? You'll probably never get it - your friend might lie to you, or have misunderstood what they'd seen, or he might in fact be innocent of that one but have slept with someone else that you never suspected. How will it help you to know? Will it even matter? You'd decided to break up with him anyway, because he wasn't giving you what you want/need/deserve. \Would it change anything if you knew that he was innocent?

By the bye, the fact that he 'called when he was done having dinner with friends' and you didn't see him til 10.30pm really says to me that he wasn't heartbroken, and doesn't treat you as particularly important. Sorry, I think I'm being quite harsh here, but if I'd been dumped by a note I'd be pretty keen to meet my ex as soon as possible to talk about it.

And you don't have to be with someone who scares you.
I don't think you were being harsh at all, Persi. You were being real, which is something that I think is frequently lacking in interpersonal relationships. I expect, nay demand, the truth from my people. The truth sometimes hurts, but it is what it is. It may smart like the dickens, but in the long run, I think it's the best option for all involved.

Stereo, I understand your desire for the "truth" in this situation with the swirling miasma of innuendo/rumours/bullshit, but, um, it isn't gonna change things or make things any better. You want to quantify why shit went south, which is perfectly normal. BUT you're better off to let it stand as it is, unanswered questions & all. If you have the "answers" it isn't gonna make you more satisfied with the outcome. It's still gonna be over whether there are expressed credible reasons why. And I think it's over much more because he wasn't meeting *your* perfectly reasonable needs than all the bullshit & drama. Bullshit & drama are often just excuses we use for the real reason "why".

That being said, BIG UPS for getting the fuck out of something that was no longer working for you! Take it in stride, every experience we have we hopefully learn from. Take something away from this & learn from it, yo.
Persi - You're right, harsh or not. It upset me that he was too busy to talk ASAP, but he was leaving the next day and the friends he was dining with will be moved to another Province by the time he gets back. Bad timing.

aural - The reason I am so deperate for the truth is because, after we talked, things were left open-ended. We both agreed that the time apart would help us both decide what we really wanted, but if he did indeed cheat, then I'll know for sure there is no point in trying anymore. Maybe I should know that now. I don't know why it's so hard for me to let go, or why I keep making excuses for him. I did end it because of other reasons, but now all that is overshadowed by these accusations, and instead of it feeling like my decision, I feel like he took control of it all. I want to be able to say it's your fault, you're wrong, and there is no excuse.

However, I do realize I may never get that and I'm not sure how I'll cope or move forward if I don't. There will always be this doubt nagging at me, making me sick, sitting on my chest, like it is right now.

I phoned a counselling centre yesterday and am now going through their intake proceedure. After the paper work, I'll be placed on a waiting list. I've been feeling like I've needed someone professional to talk to for a long time, and this was the catalyst.

I want to thank you both for responding and giving me honest input. However hard it is to hear, it helps. I don't have anyone I can talk to about this, so being able to come here and vent my feelings is a huge release. I'm so used to holding everything in...I guess that may explain my emotional state. I was never allowed to cry when I was a kid.
Y'know, I used to work in a cafe that had a really shitty, ancient, broken down old fridge. It leaked, it made horrible lawnmower noises, the bottom puddled with water and went moldy, the shelves were falling off, at least once a month it would break down in the middle in the night and ruin all the food inside, and even when it was working it was rarely at a foodsafe temperature. In the 6 months I worked there, the owner got it fixed at least four times. Every time he got it fixed, it broke down again within weeks. It was cheaper to pay someone to fix it than it was to replace it, so he just kept paying people to fix it over and over and over. In the end, he had spent more on repairs than the cost of a new fridge, he was still stuck with a shitty old fridge, and he still wouldn't buy a new one because he'd already spent so much money on the old one. He convinced himself that getting the old one repaired was the better investment, even though the old one sucked beyond repair.

I think the reason why it's so hard to get out of a bad relationship sometimes is because of that investment trap. You don't want to bail at the first sign of trouble, so you hang on, gradually sacrificing more and more of yourself into the widening void, investing more and more of your energy into holding on and filling in the gaps, hoping that things will get better. Repairing the relationship you have seems like a better investment than walking away. Ideally, it should be. And often, things do eventually work out. But it's hard to know when to draw the line. By the time it becomes apparent that the relationship is beyond repair, you've already invested so much of yourself into it that the thought of just leaving feels like a huge loss. Because it's not only the relationship and the other person you're losing, it's all the time and energy and faith you invested. All gone. And you know instinctively how empty you'll feel and how much you'll hate yourself for a thing like that, so you just suppress it and keep holding on, investing more and more. Getting into emotional debt, if you will.
She emailed me again. What part of "having space has been doing me a lot of good and I'll contact you when I'm ready" doesn't she understand?

I'd actually been thinking of contacting her soon, because we haven't spoken in a month and a half now, and I think it might be good to just check in. But I don't want to give the impression that I'm contacting her because she asked me to.
Don't do it, epi. It doesn't matter what your intentions are, if you contact her she'll interpret it to suit her needs. You have to act like you need space if you tell her that you need space.
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