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> "porn: Is It Cock-blocking Feminism?", All About Feminism and Sex Work
anarch
post Dec 13 2010, 01:28 PM
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Yeah, I wondered if I was correct in thinking that you'd mentioned a phone sex job at some point, long ago. Couldn't quite remember.

Well, I'd find it interesting in a "Ooooh so that's how it works!" kind of way. Shaving off fractions of my vast ignorance about how the world works.
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auralpoison
post Dec 9 2010, 10:59 PM
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QUOTE(anarch @ Dec 9 2010, 02:57 PM) *
(I'd be interested in more details about that job if you felt like writing about it sometime. Fascinating stuff to read, like this phone sex thread.)


QUOTE(girltrouble @ Oct 20 2008, 09:19 PM) *
oh yeah, i can vouch for aural's voice. i thought mine was good (she hasn't heard my moneymaking purr either), i would say it's like a very sexy vertigo inducing roll in hot buttered velvet. it's good. verrrrrry good. i've heard one that's better (only one, mind you), but as she said, i haven't heard her money maker. but i had to bust out one of my church fans to cool myself shortly after i heard it.


Oh, I did phone work, too, as well as cyberchat rooms. Money is money, yo. It's really not very interesting, honestly. I used to be amused by the power angle, now I just want to get it done & get on to the next thing.


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anarch
post Dec 9 2010, 01:57 PM
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QUOTE(auralpoison @ Dec 5 2010, 11:59 AM) *

I know all about this because it's one of AP's many little sidelines of making money


I'm so impressed. You're a fractal. Each layer of awesome turning out to contain ever deeper patterns of awesome, into infinity.

(I'd be interested in more details about that job if you felt like writing about it sometime. Fascinating stuff to read, like this phone sex thread.)

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genghis cunt
post Dec 8 2010, 08:15 AM
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AP, you should open up a kiosk in the mall where people can insert their loved one's name in dirty stories and print a book of that story for them as a thoughtful gift. happy.gif
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auralpoison
post Dec 5 2010, 01:59 PM
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QUOTE(anarch @ Dec 3 2010, 01:55 AM) *
A friend and I talk occasionally about writing our own porn. We haven't gotten around to it, unfortunately. There was an NPR interview in the last few weeks with...some film writer celebrity who I can't remember the name of now...anyway, his advice was that if you don't see what you want in the media you consume, you have to write your own stuff and produce it by any means necessary too. "Nobody was doing what Judd Apatow thought should be on the big screen, so he wrote his own screenplays and got people together to do them..."

Barring that, you can always have somebody else write it for you! Pony up the cash, detail your desires & you can have whatever you want written up for you in short, sticky order.

I know all about this because it's one of AP's many little sidelines of making money (Writing is writing, dig? Better than being an underpaid & overqualified receptionist! Plus, I can do it from home sitting around in my yoga pants). Sex? Is recession-proof. I do work for a company based out of Georgia that provides personal erotica/dirty stories custom tailored to the consumer. Weirdly, as a straight woman? I deal almost exclusively with gay males & their fetishes. Dunno why, but I make the fellas cream their proverbial jeans!


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genghis cunt
post Dec 5 2010, 12:25 PM
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So I should make a movie about me having a threesome with Salma Hayek and Nigella Lawson?
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anarch
post Dec 3 2010, 12:55 AM
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Persi, thanks for that link and for mentioning the metafilter thread (which I skipped originally so I wouldn't have known about that guy's observation, which I do indeed find very interesting).

genghis, I whack mine down too. Can't be bothered with shaving.

datagirl, "I'm not a tap," ha! Damn straight.

A friend and I talk occasionally about writing our own porn. We haven't gotten around to it, unfortunately. There was an NPR interview in the last few weeks with...some film writer celebrity who I can't remember the name of now...anyway, his advice was that if you don't see what you want in the media you consume, you have to write your own stuff and produce it by any means necessary too. "Nobody was doing what Judd Apatow thought should be on the big screen, so he wrote his own screenplays and got people together to do them..."
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Persiflager
post Dec 2 2010, 01:45 AM
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I don't know if this is 'women-friendly', but we watched 'Pirates II: Stagnetti's revenge' and really enjoyed it. It still has unrealistic body images, but the high budget means that they got people who could actually act.

I can't find the link, but there was a metafilter thread recently where a man had recently got out of prison after two years and was answering questions about his experience. Someone asked him about porn, and he said that the most popular masturbation material was actually the TV guide, because that was where you could see pretty faces. Having been into hardcore porn before prison, he rapidly changed to fantasising about having romantic evenings with a girlfriend - kissing, touching, loving sex etc. I thought that was interesting.


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genghis cunt
post Dec 1 2010, 07:18 PM
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Two comments from lil ol me:

As posted on another thread, I am hairy and I've decided to be comfy with it. I wax my face and neck to avoid looking like Zack Galifinakis, I shave my legs (Florida=lots of shorts) and my pits. I can grow bush that would look like a Bob Ross afro if I wanted, but I trim to avoid too much funk. I'm lucky to have a boyfriend who doesn't really care what I do, but I know that even I can't find my own vagina if I don't whack it down once in awhile. Full-on shaving is too irritating.

For porn, I have been clean since Septembe 2007. That's when my boyfriend told me about his porn addiction. We both purged it from our lives, not because it's inherently bad, but because we realized we couldn't get off unless we were doing something crazy. I've also come to the personal conclusion that mainstream porn promotes unrelistic body images for both women and men, and truly has altered the sexual psyche of many peope. While I no longer view porn, I wouldn't begrudge anyone for watching it if it's not so freaking graphic.

Has anyone gotten the supposedly women-friendly porn produced by women and featuring real people?
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datagirl
post Nov 24 2010, 06:50 PM
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I used to like porn. But as for the rape/violent stuff is concerned ( and it's getting waaaay too prevalent IMO) I could not be more turned off and quite frankly I feel really sorry for those women who make the decision to do that for a living. I've seem a few ads for the f/f violent rape stuff that infiltrates the margins of my screen when I'm trying to watch some retro porn or porn where the women have bushes cause that's what mine looks like.

I've had a few one night stands with some young guys (early 20's to my early 30's) and some of them seem to think that after the night is over that I'll give it up anytime. They text me and ring me to hassle me for free sex so much so that I no longer drink or go out and I certainly don't want to have meaningless sex anymore.

I do believe that porn has seriously fucked up many men's views of what's to be sexually expected, as it's certainly not respected. If I have a one night stand with someone that's all you get. I'm not a tap and I blame porn for that in many ways. Porn is fantasy. I mean I'd hardly go down on my mechanic at the drop of a had or a belt for that matter.

I watch porn, so I'm a hypocrite but I certainly don't take it literally. I like that it's there and that there are so many different genres but I hate that it's so easy to access especially for kids.

It makes my skin crawl that a seven year old would be watching adult content rather than being an innocent kid.
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anarch
post Nov 23 2010, 11:58 AM
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From metafilter, a good collection of links on the guy pretending to be "Alexa DiCarlo," a (female persona) sex worker and blogger who referred teenage girls to himself as an excellent "first client."
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just_a_guy
post Sep 17 2010, 11:44 AM
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QUOTE(pepper @ Sep 15 2010, 08:31 AM) *
I haven't had a ridiculous lover in years, I'm nearly 40 and have been blessed with stunningly fabulous playmates and partners for most of my sexually active life <3. But it's not just the younger set who are gobsmacked by bush. I have had one older lover who requested that I grow it in and one partner my age who "didn't mind" but preferred it trim at least. That man was a funky dude though, he didn't want me to shave under my arms or my legs or bathe with soap. I liked him a LOT that freaky naturalist, he was the most fun. Anyhow, the rest, and there have been a few, don't want to see any body hair, want VERY little natural odour (what's with the guys who jump straight into the shower afterwards? That's weird) and still try the occasional filmstar act or position. I don't have any aversion to spunk but shooting it onto my face and open mouth from a distance? Uh, ok fella. I'm game but is that REALLY what you find sexy? And how is a landing strip attractive exactly? It's like a little bandage of hair, it looks completely comical to me. Ugh, different strokes and all but the further it gets from what's natural, the less appealing I find it. What is wrong with the way we look that it has to be so drastically altered to be acceptable? I don't get it.

I remember an acquantaince years ago, a stripper I was sewing costumes for actually, telling me about her boyfriend rubbing the fine blonde hairs on her face in disgust one time, like she was supposed to be COMPLETELY hairless. Like she was supposed to be made of plastic. He wasn't a particular weirdo either, I knew him.

Oh whatever, people are all weirdos. Shoe licking doesn't make any sense to me either but there's enough kink out there that I have to believe that anything goes.


Totally agree on anything foot related. I just don't get it.

Also, the whole shooting from a distance thing. I mean, to me it's the same thing as getting on the greatest roller coaster you've ever been on going through all the twists and turns the bumps and dips, and then you get tho the final drop. the mother of all drops, and you say to yourself: "I think I'd like to stop the ride right before the peak, and run down so that I can watch the roller coaster as it drops."

As far as the hair thing goes I'm not very particular about whether a girl is rocking the brazilian, is fully covered, or anything in between. The only thing I've ever requested was a trim, and that was for utilitarian reasons. The full-on 70s bush can start to feel cold and wet against your face after 20 minutes or so. Also, I think keeping yourself well groomed shows that you take pride in your appearance, and I have never asked a woman to do anything grooming wise, that I don't do/haven't done myself.

And I've never understood the whole odor stigma. I can honestly say that the only time I've been disappointed with oral sex was when the woman was so clean as to have no flavor or odor whatsoever. It's a multi-sensory experience for me.


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sukouyant
post Sep 17 2010, 07:54 AM
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QUOTE(auralpoison @ Sep 14 2010, 11:36 PM) *


Not to mention the way tech has started this creeping norm of isolation. Texting, social networking, we are pulling back more & more from honest human interaction. Internet porn is part of that. It's there when you want it, it never says no, it never criticizes, & you don't have to worry about it's feelings. Why get with a messy real person when you have a twenty-four-seven pipeline into airbrushed, silicone-enhanced "perfection"?


What I'm kind of curious about is the cultural/psychosexual/?? that brings about things like this Love Plus virtual girlfriend vacation - which I assumed was a web hoax when I first heard about it, but who knows. I think they have an IPhone app that allows you to pose in a picture with your 'girlfriend' http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/love_p...ance_reboot.php I guess it is just an expensive game, but it makes me want to dissect these guys' minds.

I saw a doc a few years ago called A Perfect Fake that talked about male sexuality, Real Dolls, electronic sex, control and emotional connection to what most people see as a simulacrum of something more real. (Kind of the way some people see this place, maybe.)

oh hey some of it is on youtube http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url...v%3DAWlf7oDXyCM

ETA I think this is the full length documentary if anyone is interested, but you have to download their product to watch the whole thing http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category...7066687mARhBscH
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pepper
post Sep 15 2010, 10:31 AM
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I haven't had a ridiculous lover in years, I'm nearly 40 and have been blessed with stunningly fabulous playmates and partners for most of my sexually active life <3. But it's not just the younger set who are gobsmacked by bush. I have had one older lover who requested that I grow it in and one partner my age who "didn't mind" but preferred it trim at least. That man was a funky dude though, he didn't want me to shave under my arms or my legs or bathe with soap. I liked him a LOT that freaky naturalist, he was the most fun. Anyhow, the rest, and there have been a few, don't want to see any body hair, want VERY little natural odour (what's with the guys who jump straight into the shower afterwards? That's weird) and still try the occasional filmstar act or position. I don't have any aversion to spunk but shooting it onto my face and open mouth from a distance? Uh, ok fella. I'm game but is that REALLY what you find sexy? And how is a landing strip attractive exactly? It's like a little bandage of hair, it looks completely comical to me. Ugh, different strokes and all but the further it gets from what's natural, the less appealing I find it. What is wrong with the way we look that it has to be so drastically altered to be acceptable? I don't get it.

I remember an acquantaince years ago, a stripper I was sewing costumes for actually, telling me about her boyfriend rubbing the fine blonde hairs on her face in disgust one time, like she was supposed to be COMPLETELY hairless. Like she was supposed to be made of plastic. He wasn't a particular weirdo either, I knew him.

Oh whatever, people are all weirdos. Shoe licking doesn't make any sense to me either but there's enough kink out there that I have to believe that anything goes.
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auralpoison
post Sep 14 2010, 09:36 PM
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QUOTE(koffeewitch @ Sep 14 2010, 01:11 PM) *
...and why is so much porn so terribly violent?


This has been on my mind recently as I received a link to a genre that was new to me . . . "Hot & Mean". It's f/f that is basically retribution rape porn. The gist is that one actress has done the other wrong: slept with her boyfriend, was late with the rent, borrowed her rollerblades without permission (seriously), etc. Some rough language, some cunnilingus/analingus, & it's all followed up with vaginal, then anal strapon rape with lots of verbal abuse & the victim begging/pleading for it to stop until she apologizes & gets into it & has a stupendous orgasm. It disturbed me to no fucking end. It seems like it's for guys that want to see women victimized, but are uncomfortable with seeing men do it, but somehow it's okay if it's two women & one has done the other wrong. Like, rape by proxy is somehow okay.

I know I'm probably overthinking it, but it really disturbed me.

QUOTE(pepper @ Sep 14 2010, 05:32 PM) *
No, sorry, I don't think a lot of people can tell the difference between porn fucking and the real thing. Quite a few of them seems to think that doing the way they saw it on tv is the way to go and you know what? That Never lives up to expectations. It doesn't feel good to anyone but the audience. Porn is useless as an instructional video but it's all there really is available out there so that's what it gets used for a lot of the time.


I can't say I agree with this 100%, but I think it's a *newer* problem that has it's roots in the web & ease of access.

When I was growing up my father was an avid consumer of pornography. And being that he wasn't the sharpest tool in the shed sometimes, it's not like he tried too hard to hide it. VHS tapes jammed under the sofa, erotic books/magazines on top of the bathroom cabinets, etc.

But nowadays? Any kid can hop online & find the filthiest, nastiest, most depraved things in mere seconds. Netnanny & all that be damned, kids are smart & having been born into technology they can get around almost anything with a little time & patience. So they are starting earlier & earlier & seeing more & more twisted things that they don't need to be seeing, plus it's planting unrealistic ideas into their minds that they carry on into puberty, then adulthood. This is why some younger men are gobsmacked if a woman has a bush because it is not the porn standard.

Not to mention the way tech has started this creeping norm of isolation. Texting, social networking, we are pulling back more & more from honest human interaction. Internet porn is part of that. It's there when you want it, it never says no, it never criticizes, & you don't have to worry about it's feelings. Why get with a messy real person when you have a twenty-four-seven pipeline into airbrushed, silicone-enhanced "perfection"?


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just_a_guy
post Sep 14 2010, 05:31 PM
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IMO people's sexual appetites and experiences are so widely varied that what is or isn't objective fact is really a moot point.

Sometimes you can be hot and bothered enough that foreplay is unnecessary. Some women do not enjoy oral sex, and some can't achieve orgasm without it. I've seen girls swear up and down that they can't have an orgasm at all only to find out that when the pressure is off, and they can just enjoy themselves that is far from the truth. I've had a girl "cream herself" within minutes without any other stimulation that penile penetration, and I'm not packing pornographic equipment. I've had a girl swear to me that she was grossed out by semen in her mouth until one day out of the blue she refused to back off even after I warned her multiple times because, in that moment the thought of completing that act with me turned her on emotionally and sexually.

What is true for one woman may not be true for another, and may even vary within the same woman depending on her given mood. I agree with koffeewitch that it has absolutely nothing to do with whether a woman is objectively "sexy" or not, but everything to do with how she is feeling in a given moment both emotionally and physically.

Pepper, I don't know if you're right that most people cannot tell the difference between porn sex and real sex. Everyone (male and female) with whom I've ever had the discussion seem to be pretty clear on the matter. Even the porn actresses I've known feel very differently about sex as a performance versus sex in their private lives.

That said, I tend not to surround myself with idiots and ignoramuses. I can remember too many conversations with female friends who were terrified that there was something wrong with them because sex was painful or at least uncomfortable, only to discover that the boys who took their virginity couldn't understand why it's called foreplay and not aftplay. So I guess you could be right when it comes to the masses.

At the end of the day I still think it all boils down do communicating your needs to your partner, and finding a partner capable and willing to satisfy those needs. If we can teach people the interpersonal skills to communicate on that level, I don't believe any level of porn pre-programming will be able to overcome it. I mean, even the men I know prefer real sex to porn sex tongue.gif


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pepper
post Sep 14 2010, 04:32 PM
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How about those wet dreams I used to have though? The ones that woke me straight out of sleep with ginormo orgasms and involved ZERO touching whatsoever...

I've had too many boyfriends and lovers who seemed obssessed with the porn physical ideal to chalk it up to nothing. Trying to stick ankles behind heads and other ridiculous shit that only works on screen, pft. Idiots. Of all ages too. No, sorry, I don't think a lot of people can tell the difference between porn fucking and the real thing. Quite a few of them seems to think that doing the way they saw it on tv is the way to go and you know what? That Never lives up to expectations. It doesn't feel good to anyone but the audience. Porn is useless as an instructional video but it's all there really is available out there so that's what it gets used for a lot of the time.
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koffeewitch
post Sep 14 2010, 12:11 PM
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I guess this IS actually a bit of a semantical issue, but by "vaginal" orgasm, I meant an orgasm in which even indirect clitoral stimulation is not part of the orgasm. Certainly many women have orgasms from vaginal penetration, but I still believe the orgasm is due to indirect clitoral pressure (often brought on by plenty of fore-play or a very horny lady who is very much in the mood). I think porn just implies that a guy can shove his dick in and a "sexy" woman will cream herself within minutes... Anyway, since all arousal results in blood flow to the genitalia, the clit is stimulated. I'm sure everybody here is aware that many of us get so pissy about the discussion of vaginal/clitoral orgasms because psychiatrists and doctors held barbaric opinions about clitoral orgasms until Masters and Johnston.

On young people being influenced by porn: What exactly are the results of this? Can we attribute the unsafe sex in porn to the rising STD rates? What about young women and breast implants, etc. (This is not just to scapegoat porn as opposed to say, Mabelline ads, BTW).

The Military studies were based on showing male soldiers porn films before sending them out in bombers and snipers. I'd love to more about this study. What type of porn was it/how violent...and why is so much porn so terribly violent? I , for one, am sick to death of these sick animal porn films of men fucking chickens and women fucking fish and then cutting them up and eating them. (My boyfriends' co-workers find these "hilarious" for some reason.)

I love reading everybody's comments on this subject. Porn can be a tricky subject (IMO) for feminist discussion...
I'm not anti-porn in any kind of Andrea Dworkin sense...I just don't think it's very sexy. Now, I loved some of Betty Pages films because she genuinely looked like she was enjoying herself, no silly vamp-vixen pouts, she often had a big beatific grin on her face. A very beautiful, sexy woman...


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Persiflager
post Sep 14 2010, 11:30 AM
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Slight derail to confirm that vaginal orgasms are definitely not mythical!

I think this came up in a debate here before, and their existence was confirmed by a few of us. Just_a_guy is completely right; it was concluded (after some arguments that they were physically impossible) that all orgasms are really clitoral, in the sense that the clitoris extends a long way beneath the surface (like a happy, happy, iceberg). So it's only a myth if you get picky about the semantics. But yes, orgasms without external clitoral stimulation are possible.

/end derail


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just_a_guy
post Sep 14 2010, 11:06 AM
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I couldn't agree more with your main point, as well as the idea that porn has a much stronger influence in shaping a younger person's concepts of sexuality. I particularly agree with the latter since, in my experience, initial exposure to porn in adolescent and pre-adolescent boys is often a peer-group interaction, and it takes place at a time when your primary developmental influence is shifting further from family of origin toward peer group.

I am always wary of the cause-effect studies done on various media and violence. Whether it is video games, pornography, or rap music. I think that as a culture we have shifted to more mainstream exposure to all types of media, and drawing a corollary effect between any rising trend and another is suspect at best. In fact, I've even heard it suggested that as we become more "civilized" in our day-to-day interactions with each other, violent film, television, and video games may act as an outlet for primal aggression.

I do strongly believe that most pornography fuels objectification of women in particular and all human beings in general. It would certainly be refreshing to see pornography that was a more accurate reflection of real-life sex.

Forgive me if this is a question that's already been asked and answered earlier in the thread, but why does it seem to be accepted here that the female internal orgasm is a myth?

My knowledge of human anatomy (my Bachelor's was in Biomedical Engineering) tells me that the internal structure of the clitoris is much larger that the external bundle of nerve endings and that there is overwhelming evidence that many women have a discernible G spot, and in my personal experience it has become pretty apparent that, while most women cannot reach orgasm without external clitoral stimulation, there are a subset of women who do experience internal orgasm, and even female ejaculation.


QUOTE(sukouyant @ Sep 12 2010, 12:05 PM) *
My take - the only time porn worries me is when working conditions for the actors are sub-par and when it involves suffering. There's a lot in mainstream commercial media that I find much more offensive, probably only because it's more in my face than porn and is actually directed at me and is invested in playing on my sexual and other personal insecurities, unlike porn.

does porn affect young (sexually inexperienced) viewers more dramatically? Yes -*everything* under the sun affects the young and inexperienced more dramatically pretty much by definition.

Does porn perpetuate the myth of the vaginal (non-clitoral) orgasm? IMO yes, but not in an important or enduring way, no more than the myth of the everlasting hard-on. Reading non-fiction books, talking with others, having sex with women, not to mention the realization that porn is a type of fiction goes a long way in disabusing people of that idea. I am curious about the origin of that myth though. I wouldn't be surprised if was one of those medically established ideas of the 18thC or something like that.


Is it true that porn increases violent behavior in men (as military studies and other studies seem to suggest)?

Really? I'm curious about what findings like that would mean. What was it about watching porn that increased the men's violent behaviour (arousal? frustration?) Does violent mean more aggressive than before, or more bloodthirsty than before? And if they simply mean more aggressive, how is that surprising, when it comes to arousal of any kind? How was it measured? How long did the effect last? What is the meaning of life? tongue.gif

edit: i just wanted to add that i don't think my acceptance of porn somehow makes me a better or more enlightened feminist than anyone, which is sometimes where these discussions go. it's probably mostly indicative of the fact that i'm not involved with a man whose porn-use bothers me.



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