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> small breast support group - (I need it even if they don't)
lightchested
post Mar 10 2009, 10:39 PM
Post #2441


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From: Detroit, Michigan


I'm stunned. I was so afraid everyone was going to reject me if I posted that.

Thank you so much. I never tell anyone. Thank you.

I will answer everyone's questions thoroughly, but can't do it tonight. I have to wake up in about four hours so I can go train a bunch of people on a software application I don't myself understand. How do I get myself in to these things? (I did it to bail out my boss's boss, who forgot this meeting was tomorrow, and has no agenda, and was panicked, so I offered to train on this product. I warned him my training won't be "polished". That's an understatement. But I ramble.)

I am so blown away by the responses. Thank you so much.

A phrase that anarch used summed up the majority of my customers: "jaw-dropping self-esteem problems".

I also want to respond quickly to the married man thing. I was shocked that that was shocking! But I guess I shouldn't be, because it shocked me when I started doing it. I thought they'd "forgotten", and left their wedding ring on. But then they'd brag about their wife to me! (some of them) Like, if you think you're wife's so great, what the HELL are you doing HERE??? I agree COMPLETELY with what Aithinne wrote about it being cheating. I'm sorry, but I just do. The betrayal to me, when a guy does that to me (and they have) is so deep that I almost go into a denial when it happens. In fact, that's what pushed me into that whole mess. But more on that later.

What I wanted to say now is there are two kinds of men there: groups and loners. The ones in groups tend to be boisterous and misogynistic. But you can usually find one guy in each group- every time just one- who is uncomfortable being there, and feels bad about his significant other, as though he's cheating on her. He doesn't look around, and he doesn't get dances. What bugged the living crap out of me is when this type of guy's friends would force a lapdance on him, with him seriously protesting. I REFUSED to do it. I tried to defend these guys to their friends, and would tell other girls not to do it because he really didn't want one. I did as much as I could to protect them from their disgusting friends. It was like they were being tortured and it wasn't fair. They would look away the whole time. I don't want to think about that right now.

Okay, and then besides the groups are the loners. These are the ones I liked. They were looking for something on a psychological level...someone to listen to them...someone they could feel close to...and I know this is going to sound crazy, but someone who cared. So often I felt like a psychologist in that job. I know that sounds so warped. I gave marital advice, job advice (why the hell would someone take such advice from a stripper??? rolleyes.gif But I guess what I said made sense to them) I'm highly empathetic, and I like to believe I helped a lot of guys through some black feelings. The main one being loneliness.

Which brings me back to the married guys. They were lonely. They were married and they were lonely. Whether it was because they felt the wife used up all her attention on the kids (and they knew it was selfish of them, but still they felt neglected) or because she'd "changed" after they got married, it was like a wall went up, at least in their minds, between the guy and his spouse, and he felt like he couldn't open up to her anymore. But the guy would want the empathy of a woman, so ... voila... a stripper. Often guys said no to a lap dance, yet offered me a drink if I'd sit with him. I did. (I don't drink much, and I didn't then either, but I did enjoy the conversations) The guys were looking for empathy, and weren't getting it at home. That is the main thing. A caring, non-rushed ear that was entirely focused on them. For whatever reason, these married guys felt they could no longer get that from their wife.

So there you go.

I'll answer everything else tomorrow.

Oh, and karategrrl...I have so much to say on the men fearing us that I didn't want to try to jam it into this post. I'm tired, and there is a lot to say. We have a lot more power than we think. It was hard for me to bend my mind around, but I still get reminders of it, though I've not done this job for about nine years now. I don't know why, but men fear us. Mainly, above all else, they fear our rejection. And the rejection can take about a zillion forms..things we would not consider rejection at all. More on this tomorrow.

Thank you all so much. You are so great. Thank you for accepting me.


--------------------
May visible pyramids one day lurk beneath my sweaters.
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neurotic.nelly
post Mar 10 2009, 06:47 PM
Post #2442


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Posts: 460
From: the galatic center


Chiming in again here, tagging on anarch's coattails, there's this autobiographical account, Confessions of a video Vixen. This book provided a glimpse into a different yet similar world, giving a voice to a particular group of overtly objectified wymyns.


--------------------
Earth: A Satanically ran planet where 98% of it's inhabitants are unquestioning, conformist idiots who are totally controlled and manipulated by the Satanic governments of the world and have been made complacent by said governments, through rigorous brainwashing.
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anarch
post Mar 10 2009, 05:02 PM
Post #2443


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Posts: 873


Yeah, lightchested, a book that would do for stripping what Jeannette Angell did for being a call girl. (Mind you, even though that book made it as obvious as possible that she was critiquing popular stereotypes of call girl work from the inside, and that most of the johns were complete pathetic fuckups with jaw-dropping self-esteem problems, there was still a stoopid-I-think-with-my-dick Amazon review that said something like "Read this book if you want to know how to really turn a man on"! Yowza, way to miss all of the author's points. Every one of them. None of it reads like erotica.)
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neurotic.nelly
post Mar 10 2009, 12:45 PM
Post #2444


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Posts: 460
From: the galatic center


deleted... just because i don't feel comfortable having it here.


--------------------
Earth: A Satanically ran planet where 98% of it's inhabitants are unquestioning, conformist idiots who are totally controlled and manipulated by the Satanic governments of the world and have been made complacent by said governments, through rigorous brainwashing.
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KeraBear
post Mar 10 2009, 08:21 AM
Post #2445


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Posts: 265
From: USA


Hey, has anybody ever heard the Boob Fairy song by Deirdre Flint. It's great. :-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ctz5T7AHpc...feature=related
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KeraBear
post Mar 10 2009, 08:18 AM
Post #2446


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From: USA


Lightchested, that was fantastic. Forget putting together a blog, you should write a book about your experiences!
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loonydaray
post Mar 9 2009, 09:58 PM
Post #2447


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Posts: 45


lightchested. dude.
thankyou so much for sharing that! i love the thought of a rebel woman trying to break down the strip club system from the inside...
but seriously, have you thought of writing a book? maybe that seems a little far-fetched, but i'm totally serious. your story is not only real and insightful, but it's something that would get people to really listen you know? it just doesn't get any more real than that. i can really see that story going places, changing minds... i mean... i'm just completely blown away right now by how damn real that is. i have so much respect for you for posting that and going through that, that's all i'm saying.
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Aithinne
post Mar 9 2009, 07:28 PM
Post #2448


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Posts: 211
From: USA


I honestly don't know what my opinion of strip clubs are. Some days I think I'd be ok with my boyfriend (you know, the one I don't have... lol) going to a strip club, and other days, not so much. I'm not sure I'd be ok with my SO going to check out other naked women, it just seems like betrayal to me. Plus, they're spending their money on these women. I know this doesn't sound true, but I'm not one to care much about a man's money. As long as he can take care of himself, whether he's a millionaire or just getting by, doesn't matter to me. It just seems like even more of a betrayal that he feels he has to go out and spend money to watch some other girl get naked when I'm at home for free. Idk, I just feel like if he went to a strip club, that he'd be looking at the perfectly proportioned naked chicks that were not me and wish he had one or more of THEM and not want me anymore.

I thought most strip-goers were single men. Really depressing that there are so many married men. Makes me not want to get married... wow. I sincerely struggle with trying to come up with reasons that men should be trusted anymore. There are probably some good ones out there, but damn, how could you not be insecure with the way some of them behave? How CAN they be trusted? I sincerely would like to know, because I don't want to totally ruin my hope.

On a side note, I turned on the tv today because I wasn't feeling good and was flipping through the channels. Rock of Love was on, and I have never noticed how plastic those women are. Their boobs looked totally fake and humungous. They wore way too much makeup and way too little clothing. Yet another media program where nothing less than huge breasts = hot sexy woman. Very sad and depressing.
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honeybunch
post Mar 9 2009, 06:29 PM
Post #2449


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Posts: 73


I would also like to thank lightchested!

In a weird way I liked that you were making money. I saw a very small bustie on TV make $600 a night. I was like dang she doesn't have a boob job, but she's making that money! If I could make that much a night with small boobs I wouldn't bother with a boob job.



I'll be back later to respond again to lightchested's post.

QUOTE
Oh, please say more about how men are afraid of US....??? Curious.


I'd like to hear more,too.
Maybe I'll ask my partner-he was once an avid strip club visitor for his insight.

And as someone who deals with sex addicts, some guys prefer sex with anonymous people. They dont' feel as vulnerable as they do with their wives or significant others-and it's nothing to do with the wives really. If a sex worker rejects them, it's ok b/c in their minds the stripper is below them. Some are addicted to that I-just-met-you feeling, and a strip club is an easy way to get those endorphins flowing. So no, I'm not surprised at all many of those guys are married.
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anarch
post Mar 9 2009, 03:31 PM
Post #2450


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lightchested, that was awesome. Have you published or blogged about this anywhere? There could be some real honest conversations between men & women springing from stories like this. (Lots of knee-jerk turd-dropping asshat reactions, natch, too, but that comes with the territory.) People are able to avoid them in daily life because it's all hush-hush and so many people, just like the guys you talked to, are in denial, but the more exposure stories like this get, the more people will have to come face to face with at least some of their assumptions, and bring them out into the open sunshine.
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karategrrl
post Mar 9 2009, 01:40 PM
Post #2451


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Okay, a few more thoughts;

They'd always say, "My wife could never do this." and then typically made some reference to her body being out of shape, etc.

Many, MANY wives are "out of shape" from having these men's kids. Many more of them are at home taking care of said kids while hubby is at strip club.

They seemed to make a distinction, as though by working there, I should be some particular type of person, but by their frequenting the establishment, this was somehow not any indication of what kind of person they were.

Of course, it's different for men. Don't you know that??

Funny, I always thought "Gentlemen's" clubs were mis-named.

but they wanted the anonymous girl to never be their wife or their daughter.

This makes about as much sense as finding the girl you want to settle down with and be monogamous with and then going to a strip club for your bachelor party--you know, as an outward public statement of your desire to settle down.


I think what just about all of stupid male behavior comes down to is, they do what they do because THEY CAN.
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karategrrl
post Mar 9 2009, 01:09 PM
Post #2452


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Holy freaking crap, lightchested!!! What an incredible insight you offered. THANKS!!!

It's going to take me awhile to read, re-read and process your post, but off the bat what sticks with me is men's double standards, i.e., they can go to strip clubs but the women who do it are wrong to do it; they can go to strip clubs but they'd never let their daughter do it. Yep, the male mind--don't even try to figure it out.

Reminds me of my husband. Some of our worst fights ever were over his flirting with other women. He's tried to justify it up one side and down the other but meanwhile I know for a fact he'd be flipping out if I were to do do anything that even came close to things he's said/done.

...and lightchested, very interesting that you made money with your small breasts!!! Stripping and boob jobs seem to go-in-hand nowadays. Interesting to note it's not necessarily so.

...and GOOD FOR YOU asking all those questions of the patrons.


Oh, please say more about how men are afraid of US....??? Curious.
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honeybunch
post Mar 9 2009, 01:01 PM
Post #2453


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Posts: 73


QUOTE(lightchested @ Mar 9 2009, 10:00 AM) *

Karategrrl,


I had to respond to this. I can tell you from first hand experience how strippers do what they do. Or at least how one of them did.

My original plan was to "blow up the world from the inside". I had taken women's studies courses in which we learned that one way to obliterate a power structure was to take power inside that structure, and then blow it up. Join it, then destroy it.

So for every single guy I did dances, I asked them if they were married. I was shocked at how many not only told me "Yes", easily and without hesitation, but also pulled out their wallet to show me not only the picture of the their wife, but also their kids!!! What blew me away the worst was when they had daughters roughly my age or a bit younger. I would then ask, "How would you feel about your daughter stripping?" They always looked shocked, and often a bit insulted, and ALWAYS replied, "My daughter would NEVER do this." ("this" being what I was doing at the time) I always followed that up with, "That's exactly what my dad would say." I ended those conversations there, and let them think on that.

When men did not have daughters roughly my age, but had wives, I asked how they'd feel if their wives were strippers. They'd always say, "My wife could never do this." and then typically made some reference to her body being out of shape, etc. I would then tell them, "Have you ever wondered why all of these places are dark and smoky from black ice? You should see all of us in the dressing room, under the flourescent lights. If guys saw us there, we'd all be broke." They usually didn't believe me at first, but I was insistent. (It was true) I told them how cellulite and skin imperfections disappear in the dark, with a bunch of black ice smoke everywhere. Also, how the lighting gave me contours that made my chest look much much better than under flourescent lighting. I told them everything they saw there was an illusion, and the customers were paying women who were other men's wives, when they each had a perfectly good wife at home who was no different than anybody here. (at the bar)



I'm not surprised at all. I used to think that it was single, lonely guys who went to strip clubs-then I watched G-string divas and realized that wasn't the case at all.

Even though I've only been on the planet a short time, I long ago realized that men into strippers or what have you wouldnt want their daughters to do. I don't think they get that deep at all, they just want to bust a nut. mad.gif
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lightchested
post Mar 9 2009, 10:00 AM
Post #2454


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Posts: 42
From: Detroit, Michigan


QUOTE(karategrrl @ Mar 7 2009, 08:12 PM) *
As I wrote this, I just had a revelation. I think I can understand how, on one level, strippers can do what they do, in the sense of, "shit, they're always going to stare/leer/grope and that will never change...as long as they are going to, why not at least make money off of it?"
...then just as quickly, the idealist in me says, "NO! Fight the power!! mad.gif


Karategrrl,


I had to respond to this. I can tell you from first hand experience how strippers do what they do. Or at least how one of them did.

My original plan was to "blow up the world from the inside". I had taken women's studies courses in which we learned that one way to obliterate a power structure was to take power inside that structure, and then blow it up. Join it, then destroy it.

So for every single guy I did dances, I asked them if they were married. I was shocked at how many not only told me "Yes", easily and without hesitation, but also pulled out their wallet to show me not only the picture of the their wife, but also their kids!!! What blew me away the worst was when they had daughters roughly my age or a bit younger. I would then ask, "How would you feel about your daughter stripping?" They always looked shocked, and often a bit insulted, and ALWAYS replied, "My daughter would NEVER do this." ("this" being what I was doing at the time) I always followed that up with, "That's exactly what my dad would say." I ended those conversations there, and let them think on that.

When men did not have daughters roughly my age, but had wives, I asked how they'd feel if their wives were strippers. They'd always say, "My wife could never do this." and then typically made some reference to her body being out of shape, etc. I would then tell them, "Have you ever wondered why all of these places are dark and smoky from black ice? You should see all of us in the dressing room, under the flourescent lights. If guys saw us there, we'd all be broke." They usually didn't believe me at first, but I was insistent. (It was true) I told them how cellulite and skin imperfections disappear in the dark, with a bunch of black ice smoke everywhere. Also, how the lighting gave me contours that made my chest look much much better than under flourescent lighting. I told them everything they saw there was an illusion, and the customers were paying women who were other men's wives, when they each had a perfectly good wife at home who was no different than anybody here. (at the bar)

Sometimes guys would say, "You want me to leave???" And I'd say I just wanted them to do what they thought was right. They often pointed out, "You would make money on me if I stay, but you want me to leave?" and I'd just say they had to live with their conscience, and they should do what they think is right. They were shocked by this, but I had the advantage of having a decent paying "day job", so I was not completely dependent on my income from this peripheral job.

Also, men a lot of times asked me what I was doing there, telling me I was "too good/smart/etc. to be doing this." I would then turn it around on them. Were they not too good/smart/etc. to be doing this? They always replied, "I'm not working here." I would reply, "But you're here. What's the difference?" They seemed to make a distinction, as though by working there, I should be some particular type of person, but by their frequenting the establishment, this was somehow not any indication of what kind of person they were. They thought they should escape any stigma for going there, but that I was stigmatized by working there. I tried like hell to point out to them that it's all the same...we were all there...and that if they don't like the idea of me being stigmatized by working there, or poisoned by it, or if they feared in any way that their daughter would ever do the same, then their job was to STOP GOING THERE. To stop supporting those types of establishments so that they could cease to exist. I never met a one who was willing to make this commitment. They wanted to be able to go to those places, with some anonymous girl being "poisoned" by him and her other customers, and stigmatized by having that job, but they wanted the anonymous girl to never be their wife or their daughter.

Lastly, one of the things I learned about in my women's studies was that it can be powerful to use a force that holds you down AGAINST the force that is holding you down, for your own gain. This will sound selfish and self-serving, but here it is: I figured if men are stupid enough to be such slaves to their hormones, then women may as well use those hormones against the men as a way to extract money from them. This is horrible I know. But I figured it was a way of evening out the money/power structure. Men thought they had the power, with all of their money. But the longer they sat there, having dance after dance, the less control they were in, and the more of their money they handed over. They lost track of where the control was, and they certainly lost track of their money. I know this is awful.

Finally, why did I do this job, particularly considering I had a decent-paying day job? It's a little off topic, but here's why. First, I was deathly afraid of not making enough money in my day job (sales) and needing to move back home with my parents. Secondly, I had had bad experiences with men and I needed to find a way to be comfortable with them again, in a setting where I was in control, and the situation would stay controlled. (in public, bouncers, etc.) This job allowed me to learn how to not be afraid of men anymore (they are actually all pretty afraid of us!!!). Thirdly, sadly, I was looking for reassurance about my breast size. It made me feel validated or something that nobody questioned my breast size there. I learned that if you take your clothes off and act like it's anything worth seeing, then men assume it is something worth seeing (without question).

And I did feel guilty sometimes, knowing that even with all of the dark lighting and black ice smoke, I probably had some kind of "looks advantage", perhaps my hair for example, which made this job viable to me, whereas it might not be to all women, due to the prevalence of looks-ism in society. And although I don't buy into looks-ism, I realized that the fact that others do, and that I somewhat fit some stereotypical looks-ist "standards", gave me an advantage in being able to extract money back from those who hold the money in our power structure. I did feel guilty about that- that perhaps not all women would realistically be able to extract the money back as I was if they so chose. But I didn't know how to make it right, other than to point out to patrons that their wives would look just like we did if they were dressed up, made up, and on a stage in the dark with well-placed lighting and lots of black ice smoke. I wanted the customers to realize that we were NOTHING SPECIAL (they had us built up in their minds as being something I never quite understood) and that women are women are women...all the same.

I was never able to fully make that part of things "right" in my mind, though- because on some level I did realize that truly not every woman in the world would be met with acceptance if she were half naked on a stage, no matter what the lighting or smoke level, and that bothered me a lot. I hate inequity, and it's hard to feel "good" about extracting money back from the power structure if deep down you realize that not every woman would have the ability to do so in such a manner, if she so chose.

Anyway, there it is. How a stripper does it. (at least how this one did) I'd sum it up by saying, "With good intentions and mixed emotions."

And one last thing...there really is something intoxicating and addictive about people handing you greenbacks. sad.gif



--------------------
May visible pyramids one day lurk beneath my sweaters.
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karategrrl
post Mar 9 2009, 09:49 AM
Post #2455


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QUOTE(Aithinne @ Mar 8 2009, 05:55 AM) *
Oooooooh sexual harassment is another topic that just makes me want to start slicing dicks off.


laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif laugh.gif Act now, and get a free set of Ginsu knives! (Remember those late-night infomercials??)

QUOTE(Aithinne @ Mar 8 2009, 05:55 AM) *
...A lot of the time, people give excuses for men, saying "boys will be boys" or other such drivel. Bullshit. That is NO EXCUSE. Men are perfectly capable of interacting with women in a non-threatening and non-dehumanizing manner.


Aithinne, I couldn't have said anything you said better myself. And I remember being well aware of sexual harassment as early on as childhood. I also cannot stand that "boys will be boys" shit. I have shut up a couple of men who excused behavior with "I'm a guy" by responding, "Yes, you are a guy--an intelligent guy who's capable of behaving better than that." The bewildered looks I got in response were priceless. I see the female version of "I'm a guy" as women who use PMS as an excuse for anything and everything. PMS is real but some women DO use it as an excuse. ...Also, pretending to be ditzy or dumb.

And Aithinne, I totally get ya on the "nice look" vs. "sexist pig look." I like when a man looks me in the EYE and says "hello" respectfully. That's nice. However, that's happened maybe 3 times in my life whereas I've lost count of the other shit. And remember, some women DO respond to men who leer out of car windows and such. Sometimes it is, in many cultures, the accepted version of saying, "I like the way you look."

Attack or ignore? One must evaluate each situation differently, but I have to say overall I don't take that kind of shit if I don't feel I'm in physical danger. I think for many men, if I speak up it's shocking--it's like the first time any woman ever stood up and said something. I haven't actually attacked anyone but I know at some point I may have to punch the shit out of some asshat who desperately needs it.

You know, I was wondering, what makes us "feminist" for just wanting to be treated decently? Don't get me wrong--I have no problem with the term. But...you know what I mean? If a man stands up for himself, he gets respect. A woman does the same thing and she's a bitch, cunt, femi-nazi or "desperately needs to get laid."
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Jane Lane
post Mar 8 2009, 11:37 PM
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QUOTE(angie_21 @ Mar 8 2009, 11:17 PM) *
Yeah, and a line from one of their songs is, I swear, "when I grow up, I wanna have boobies." Someone correct me if I have been hearing it wrong, because I do hope that I have been...
Ask me about the 3 summers I have lived in rig pig oil camps. I dare you! Never been so happy to have small boobies in my life.


You'll be glad to know you have been hearing it wrong... it's "I wanna have groupies." But when I first heard the song, I also heard boobies.

That ridiculous song is one gigantic contradiction, if you take the time to read through the lyrics. It starts off with the girl saying that she told herself when she was little that she would do absolutely anything to get the attention of boys. Horrifying, right? But then she seems to redeem herself by saying "Be careful what you wish for, 'cause you just might get it." Okay, hopeful. A bit further on, however, she goes on to talk about how much she loves her life now that she's in the public eye, with guys lusting after her 24/7. The Pussycat Dolls make me want to pull my hair out in feminist frustration.

(lyrics)
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angie_21
post Mar 8 2009, 11:17 PM
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QUOTE(honeybunch @ Mar 8 2009, 12:18 PM) *
Funny you should bring up the doll thing. I was reading on Pornography and Silence by S. Griffin. She discusses how women are viewed as dolls that men control. Heck, we even have performers called Pussycat DOLLS, and I don't think that's a coincidence. Apparently, the whole doll thing goes really deep.


Yeah, and a line from one of their songs is, I swear, "when I grow up, I wanna have boobies." Someone correct me if I have been hearing it wrong, because I do hope that I have been...


Ask me about the 3 summers I have lived in rig pig oil camps. I dare you! Never been so happy to have small boobies in my life.
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honeybunch
post Mar 8 2009, 02:18 PM
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QUOTE(Aithinne @ Mar 8 2009, 12:55 AM) *
Oooooooh sexual harassment is another topic that just makes me want to start slicing dicks off. I think a lot of men don't consider why so many women feel uncomfortable with this treatment. Some think it is honestly a compliment. Ugh. I cannot stand catcallers and leering disgusting men. They make me feel so violated. I don't know how to describe it, but there is a difference in how men look at you and how it makes you feel, depending on their approach. A lot of men can look at you in a leering fashion and you just feel disgusting. Ha!! AS IF I would EVER allow those men to touch me in any way. But, there have been maybe one or two times that a guy has looked at me in appreciation, as if he sees not only the body, but the person underneath. The first look is revolting, the second gets me hot. I have tried to explain to my male friends who ask how the two looks are different, as far as what happens to the facial features, but it's more an eye thing. It's hard to explain a look, you know? I can only describe how it makes me feel. I wish more men did not look at women in such a demeaning way, as if they were walking blow-up dolls.

Men don't understand that catcalling and sexual harassment is not a compliment. You don't know how to react to men that do that, and it is scary to try to judge some men's behavior. Is he harmless, or will he attack me? How do you possibly know? You don't. So you have two options, either ignore the guy and keep walking, or confront him. The first possibility can be dangerous because then the guy might feel insulted, or maybe it's the power thing going on, and you not acknowledging his demeaning comments/looks makes him feel less macho. He might attack you or bother you more if you ignore. And the women who ignore them? Apparently those women are bitches or sluts. However, you have to consider confronting him, which can be dangerous too. So, what do you do? It's a catch-22, and you do not know how some strange man will react. Men don't realize that when they harass women, it's not making us feel good. Sexual harassment is threatening and scary. In the words of Carole Sheffield, it is sexual terrorism. Men think we're going to sit there and try to determine if they are harmless or if they are possibly violent? NO WAY. Women should not 'learn to tell the difference' or 'learn to take a compliment'. NO. Men need to learn how to interact with women in a non-threatening way.

I have the right to walk in public spaces and not feel threatened. I have the right to not respond to harassers. I have the right to be taken seriously. A lot of the time, people give excuses for men, saying "boys will be boys" or other such drivel. Bullshit. That is NO EXCUSE. Men are perfectly capable of interacting with women in a non-threatening and non-dehumanizing manner.


*feels blood pressure going up*

Yes, and the bold is about what boys were saying on that show I was talking about. Who in the hell is teaching them this?

Plz don't get me started on "boys will be boys." That shit really burns me up. *makes angry contorted faces*

Funny you should bring up the doll thing. I was reading on Pornography and Silence by S. Griffin. She discusses how women are viewed as dolls that men control. Heck, we even have performers called Pussycat DOLLS, and I don't think that's a coincidence. Apparently, the whole doll thing goes really deep.
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Aithinne
post Mar 8 2009, 12:55 AM
Post #2459


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 211
From: USA


Oooooooh sexual harassment is another topic that just makes me want to start slicing dicks off. I think a lot of men don't consider why so many women feel uncomfortable with this treatment. Some think it is honestly a compliment. Ugh. I cannot stand catcallers and leering disgusting men. They make me feel so violated. I don't know how to describe it, but there is a difference in how men look at you and how it makes you feel, depending on their approach. A lot of men can look at you in a leering fashion and you just feel disgusting. Ha!! AS IF I would EVER allow those men to touch me in any way. But, there have been maybe one or two times that a guy has looked at me in appreciation, as if he sees not only the body, but the person underneath. The first look is revolting, the second gets me hot. I have tried to explain to my male friends who ask how the two looks are different, as far as what happens to the facial features, but it's more an eye thing. It's hard to explain a look, you know? I can only describe how it makes me feel. I wish more men did not look at women in such a demeaning way, as if they were walking blow-up dolls.

Men don't understand that catcalling and sexual harassment is not a compliment. You don't know how to react to men that do that, and it is scary to try to judge some men's behavior. Is he harmless, or will he attack me? How do you possibly know? You don't. So you have two options, either ignore the guy and keep walking, or confront him. The first possibility can be dangerous because then the guy might feel insulted, or maybe it's the power thing going on, and you not acknowledging his demeaning comments/looks makes him feel less macho. He might attack you or bother you more if you ignore. And the women who ignore them? Apparently those women are bitches or sluts. However, you have to consider confronting him, which can be dangerous too. So, what do you do? It's a catch-22, and you do not know how some strange man will react. Men don't realize that when they harass women, it's not making us feel good. Sexual harassment is threatening and scary. In the words of Carole Sheffield, it is sexual terrorism. Men think we're going to sit there and try to determine if they are harmless or if they are possibly violent? NO WAY. Women should not 'learn to tell the difference' or 'learn to take a compliment'. NO. Men need to learn how to interact with women in a non-threatening way.

I have the right to walk in public spaces and not feel threatened. I have the right to not respond to harassers. I have the right to be taken seriously. A lot of the time, people give excuses for men, saying "boys will be boys" or other such drivel. Bullshit. That is NO EXCUSE. Men are perfectly capable of interacting with women in a non-threatening and non-dehumanizing manner.
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karategrrl
post Mar 7 2009, 08:12 PM
Post #2460


Hardcore BUSTie
***
Posts: 714


QUOTE(honeybunch @ Mar 6 2009, 09:40 PM) *
I read somewhere that objectifying women can be a male bonding experience.

Yes, it is.
QUOTE(honeybunch @ Mar 6 2009, 09:40 PM) *
I don't think guys get it at all. I don't even think most of them give it a second thought.

No, they don't. They're used to it. I, however, can never get used to it.

As I wrote this, I just had a revelation. I think I can understand how, on one level, strippers can do what they do, in the sense of, "shit, they're always going to stare/leer/grope and that will never change...as long as they are going to, why not at least make money off of it?"


...then just as quickly, the idealist in me says, "NO! Fight the power!! mad.gif
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