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> Bacterial Vaginosis--or--embarrassing bad smell
lori
post May 14 2007, 11:13 PM
Post #3721


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QUOTE(Morphia @ May 14 2007, 10:11 PM) *
Especially since its next to impossible to recolonize ANYTHING with the good, friendly bacteria.

I don't think that's necessarily true. Bacteria is a living organism and it reproduces. Doesn't happen fast enough, unfortunately, but it's not impossible. Once again, I think probiotics is the best solution we've got to help it along.

QUOTE(Morphia @ May 14 2007, 10:11 PM) *
While you SEEM harsh, what you've said is actually more comforting than anything. Thank you.

You're welcome. Consider it a slap across your face, because GIRL. YOU. WERE. FREAKING. OUT.

But seriously, aren't you going to your doctor this week? I'm sorry you're feeling pain, but I already gave you a suggestion for that, and you won't do it. So ... here's what I think you should do. STOP THINKING ABOUT YOUR VAGINA. I know it's hard because it's burning and everything, but just don't think about it before the appointment. The more you think about it, the more you obsess, and the more you go on crazy freak-outs. It's totally useless, because there's nothing you can do until you see your doctor.

Think about shopping. Or watch a good movie. Give yourself a makeover. I don't know what relaxes you, but you know what I mean.

If you absolutely can't stop thinking about it, as bvgirl suggested, type out all your concerns and questions so you can bring it with you when you go to your dr's appointment.


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Morphia
post May 14 2007, 10:54 PM
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Clindesse is a vaginal cream. And if you were in the same kind of pain that I'm in most of the time you'd be afraid too. That Clindesse probably wiped out what little lactobacilli I had left in my vagina after all that Augmentin and Amoxicillin I took. So, yes. I do think this is something to be freaked out about. Especially since its next to impossible to recolonize ANYTHING with the good, friendly bacteria. I'm sure you don't mean to be harsh, but I feel like you're belittling my fear. This is why I hate forums. Its impossible to tell real emotion. Just know that I'm not jumping on you. While you SEEM harsh, what you've said is actually more comforting than anything. Thank you. And I know I'm probably going over board. But if I didn't come here and go over the top and let it all out, I'd empty my bank account on online purchases. lol. I've already scarfed down an ass load of sugar (which only made me feel like shit.) I have no coping skills.
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lori
post May 14 2007, 10:52 PM
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SFgirl -

QUOTE(SFgirl @ May 14 2007, 08:36 PM) *
Those symptoms (IBS and BV) were comorbid. My doctor felt the overgrowth of bacteria triggered IBS.

Well, that's definitely a new one.

In any case, I too believe probiotics are probably the best solution - both for the intestine troubles and the recurrent BV. Where do you buy your Bio-K?

Also, can you point me to the Bio-K site where it says that the live bacteria (68%?) ends up in the vaginal tract? I've been reading it, but just can't find it. (All they talk about are the intestines.)


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lori
post May 14 2007, 10:27 PM
Post #3724


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QUOTE(Morphia @ May 14 2007, 09:25 PM) *
Ok, I know I said I wasn't coming back but I can't leave. I'm terrified right now.

Welcome back, Morphia. You need to calm down!

The vaginosis.com dude (I've read that site before) is just ONE source. And he sells shit on his site, so he comes off to me like a huckster, and I find some of his claims dubious.

And besides, all he's saying is that one-dose treatments like Clindesse is not as effective. As far as the resistant bacteria - it just means you may be resistant to future clindamycin treatment.

Clindamycin is basically a stronger, broad spectrum antibiotic which sort of kills everything in sight, which is why flagyl is the first line of defense for BV. So there are more antibiotic-associated side effects with clindamycin, such as the C. difficile infection (which I talked about already on this page). A bad C. difficile infection makes you poop blood and even kill you, but it is treatable, too. So if you don't have it, you will be fine.

How many times have you used Clindesse? Unless you used it twice in 90 days (according to this guy), you probably have nothing to worry about. Your body isn't screwed up forever, so you need to calm down.

So next time, read the whole site (vaginosis.com) before freaking out. Yes, he said Clindesse shouldn't be prescribed, and he even bolded it. But if you read through the specific reasons, you'll see that it's NO BIG DEAL:

- may not be as effective (yes, this sucks, but it's not the worst thing in the world)
- may cause more side effects (again, if you're not pooping blood, you're probably going to live)
- may cause resistance (yes, this isn't good, but you've only used it once, in one-dosage form, it probably cleared your system long ago; not the end of the world)

Is this anything to hyperventilate about? A reason to be "terrified?" No, it's really not.


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Morphia
post May 14 2007, 10:08 PM
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Ok, I know I said I wasn't coming back but I can't leave. I'm terrified right now. I found this at the vaginosis site: "Clindesse should not be prescibed for this condition". I also read somewhere else on the site that it shouldn't be prescribed for a first time diagnosis. Well my doctor prescribed it to me for my first time diagnosis! I'm just scared and trying to hold back tears as I think about the fact that I could have had this beat with Flagyl the first time around and I'm so angry with my doctor. He's supposed to be one of the best where I live. I may not be here right now if it weren't for that God forsaken Clindesse! I just want to go cry myself to to sleep and not wake up until my doctors appointment Friday. I know that some of you here are already sick of me but I can't leave yet. I need you all. Especially now. I'm just too damn scared that I'm going to burn in the bv fires of hell (literally) forever because of that shit. And I wouldn't be so damn scared if this infection didn't cause me pain. I can always feel it. Sometimes I wish I just had the smell and no pain. But instead I have pain and no smell. And I do tell myself its better that I don't have both. But I still don't want this burning. I just need to shut the fuck up and cry it out. I'm hysterical right now and need to go before I stop making sense.
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SFgirl
post May 14 2007, 09:19 PM
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Hi Lori,
Thanks for the info! The IBS symptoms didn't occur after taking the antibiotics. Thus, the stomach symptoms weren't caused by the antibiotics. Those symptoms (IBS and BV) were comorbid. My doctor felt the overgrowth of bacteria triggered IBS. The antibiotics relieved both the BV symptoms and IBS. When both flared up again after finishing a course of antibiotics, I began taking Bio-K which cleared both.
Sfgirl
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lori
post May 14 2007, 09:18 PM
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QUOTE(SFgirl @ May 14 2007, 07:43 PM) *
The live bacteria in Bio-K, when taken orally, makes its way down to the vaginal area. As I recall (you may want to double check this on Bio-K's web site), 68 percent of the live bacteria makes it way down to the vaginal area.

Hey SFgirl. I've been reading the bio-K site, and I don't see anything there about this. Can you point me in the right direction? Thanks.

http://www.biokplus.com/Contenu.aspx?nav_i...9&lang_id=A

Arj75, is this the Ultimate Flora that you're taking?

http://www.renewlife.com/flowmeter.cfm?meter=438


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lori
post May 14 2007, 08:46 PM
Post #3728


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QUOTE(arj75 @ May 14 2007, 08:47 AM) *
Lori,

If you have time..(List the product that I found recently too...Ultimate Flora (Probiotic). $35.99.. What is the cost of that fem stuff?
I also am going to start eating Dannon Activia Yogurt twice a day. Before this BV, I have only had a few yeast infections in my life, and had cured them by eating yogurt and just using creams to relieve the burning and itching caused from the yeast....

Hey arj75! Thanks, I will add it! (Fem-dophilus costs $24 at Whole Foods [fridge] and about $15 online [vitacost.com, etc, not in fridge] - for 30 caps)


QUOTE(SFgirl @ May 14 2007, 06:08 PM) *
The BV triggered Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) symtoms. After a trip to the doctor, and several tests to rule out other disorders, the doctor concluded the same -- that BV had triggered IBS-like symtoms. I was given Flagyl which helped to relieve symptoms, including the stomach pain and constipation, and recovered two weeks later.

Hello SFgirl, welcome to the board! I don't think the BV triggered your IBS-like symptoms, it was probably the antibiotics. The same thing happened to me after taking clindamycin (oral) - it kills the "good" bacteria in your gut, and disturbs the balance. The concept is similar to how BV occurs, but it is probably not directly caused by BV.

It sounds like you may have had a Clostridium difficile infection - an overgrowth of this bacteria is a known side effect of clindamycin. It makes sense because taking metronidazole relieved your symptoms - metronidazole kills the C. difficile bacteria. (Confusing, huh?)

Just another way BV can screw up your life. *sigh*

But I'm glad you discovered that probiotics helped you! I used Culturelle, and that really helped with my symptoms. I've also heard good things about Activia yogurt. But maybe I'll try Bio-K next time. I like that it's in liquid form. It's very pricey, but most good probiotics seem to be.

Thanks for telling us that inserting Bio-K vaginally is helping you.

Anyway, I highly recommend that if you ever take antibiotics again for any reason, make sure you let your doctor know you've had intestinal troubles. And while taking the antibiotics, make sure you're also taking Bio-K and keep an eye on your symptoms.

QUOTE(babs @ May 14 2007, 06:37 PM) *
I am never sure what probiotic to use, because I have taken them before, and they state they are for digestive health. I am not sure if they work on vaginal flora. They dont seem to ever help when I take them orally. But thanks, and I will try it. I am willing to try ANYTHING.

Hello babs, welcome to the board! Fem-dophilus is a product specifically designed for vaginal health. You take it orally. I've been taking it for over 2 months now, and so far so good.

(Another product is Gy-Natren. This stuff is horrible and caused irritation and a lot of problems. Not recommended.)

QUOTE(kittypassion @ May 14 2007, 12:33 PM) *
Hi everyone, I just found out I have that same problem BV. Im scared cause as soon as I found out I went online and research as it was my thesis in college. I found interesting facts, hiwever i also found out of the negative consequences. I heard that BV can lead to pelvic inflamatory disease which causes a woman to be sterile.

Hello kittypassion, welcome to the board! I have the same fear. I had undiagnosed BV for at least 3 years - went to the gyno a bunch of times, but all they did was test for STD's and didn't treat my BV. I had a bunch of pap tests, too, and the report always read - "inflammation" and "acute cervicitis." (Cervicitis = inflammation of cervix) Not to mention I was in pain! But they did NOTHING!

I have the very same fear - that during that time of retarded doctors, my BV may have advanced into my upper genital tract and fucked with my reproductive organs. I have anxiety attacks and nightmares about it.

*deep breath*

Anyway, I've read up a lot about this online. BV does increase your chance of getting PID in conjunction with other factors - gonorrhea, chlamydia, abortion or other surgery/procedure, etc. Since I haven't dealt with any of these, I've been trying to figure out if BV alone can cause PID - and different sources will tell you different things. Some sources say it is possible (because a small percentage women who have had PID had BV, but did not also have gonorrhea/chlamydia/procedures, etc).

In any case, it is relatively rare. The bad news for me is that I have had cervicitis which went away after my BV was treated. Cervicitis is one of the main symptoms of PID. And this is what makes me wake up in the middle of the night crying. The good news for me is that it is kind of rare. I have had a trans-vaginal ultrasound, which showed that they didn't see anything really messed up - but that's just a preliminary diagnosis for PID, so they can't be sure. But at least my ultrasound went well, so I'm just going to think positive and hope for the best.

So don't worry, kittypassion. You probably didn't have BV as long as I have without treatment, so it's very unlikely that you got PID also. But here's what you need to do. You need to make sure you're under the care of a doctor. (Hopefully none of them are as retarded as mine were.) Take ORAL antibiotics (rather than the vaginal gel/cream, which target the lower genital tract), and talk to him/her about your upper genital tract concerns. Also make sure that you are having safe sex and protecting yourself from STD's - because those WILL fuck with your reproductive organs for sure!

*Just want to remind everyone that I'm working on a blog on this site - just a compendium of suggestions from this thread. I thought it would be a good reference:

http://www.bust.com/lounge/index.php?autom...;blogid=11&

Please help me think of a name for the blog!


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SFgirl
post May 14 2007, 08:26 PM
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Hi Babs,
I've taken probiotics in the past, such as freeze-dried capsules, and have inserted plain yogurt vaginally. While that approach was effective in that it reduced my symptoms, it didn't clear the BV. Due to the way freeze-dried probiotics are processed and transported, I question whether they have the viable number of friendly bacteria needed to clear BV (at least my BV!). Bio-K, which is a "live" liquid probiotic, guarantees a minimum of 50 billion live bacteria per 3.5 ounce container. If we were to compare Bio-K to yogurt, you would need 100 3.5 ounce servings of yogurt to get the same amount of live bacteria.

Moving on to your questions:
"Is it a thin liquid? Is it important to try to keep the liquid in the vaginal canal for a while, or just flush it up there?"
The non-dairy formula is not as thick as yogurt. It has the consistency of kefir. I have one container set aside in the fridge for vaginal use and I use a syringe. I use it at night and I fill the entire syringe. I use my muscles to hold the liquid inside the vaginal canal for a few minutes. If I'm laying down, it stays put pretty well during sleep but I do sleep with a towel under me on the nights that I insert Bio-K. I haven't tried douching with it, but that approach may be worth exploring.

"And you say you use a cheaper probiotic now orally but are you still using the Bio-K liquid vaginally 3x week?"
Well, yes and more. I still take Bio-K orally (one container per day). I split the Bio-K oral dose (one container of liquid probiotic) in half and use part 1 in the morning, and part 2 in the evening. I cut the dose to one Bio-K container per day when my BV symptoms cleared completely. Prior to symptoms clearing, I drank two containers per day. In between the morning and evening Bio-K dose, I take 2 freeze-dried probiotic capsules. The capsules I have are the kind that have to be stored in the fridge. I insert Bio-K vaginally 3 times per week. I use the non-dairy formula for vaginal use because I prefer the non-dairy product. I imagine the dairy product would work just as well.

The live bacteria in Bio-K, when taken orally, makes its way down to the vaginal area. As I recall (you may want to double check this on Bio-K's web site), 68 percent of the live bacteria makes it way down to the vaginal area. I give that number an extra boost by inserting it vaginally. The "friendly" bacteria populate and outnumber the "bad" bacteria in the vaginal area and have thus cleared my symptoms.

I've tried everything over the years and Bio-K is the only thing that kicked my BV (and tummy pain). I would suggest looking at Bio-K's web site for clinical studies.

Hope this helps.

Best,
SFgirl

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arj75
post May 14 2007, 07:29 PM
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Good evening everyone,

I found a site that a doctor had listed on different prescriptions and home remendies to maintain BV. I believe it listed some medicines that maybe you could take as well BABS Also, maybe I'm just seeing things, but it looked as if he was offering to answer any questions or concerns that we may have, and he listed his info at the site. www.vaginosis.com

Good Night everyone.

Glad your feeling better ilovehim!
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babs
post May 14 2007, 07:20 PM
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SFgirl- Thanks for sharing your experiences with BV. I would like to ask you a few things. You use liquid Bio-K orally twice daily, and inserted vaginally everyday for a week. Is it a thin liquid? Is it important to try to keep the liquid in the vaginal canal for a while, or just flush it up there? And you say you use a cheaper probiotic now orally but are you still using the Bio-K liquid vaginally 3x week? I am never sure what probiotic to use, because I have taken them before, and they state they are for digestive health. I am not sure if they work on vaginal flora. They dont seem to ever help when I take them orally. But thanks, and I will try it. I am willing to try ANYTHING.
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SFgirl
post May 14 2007, 06:51 PM
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I recently had an intense and painful reaction to Bacterial Vaginosis and was ill for about three weeks. I've had recurring BV since my early 20's. I'm now in my 40's. While the BV has been ever present over the last 20 years, it has never caused severe stomach pain until recently. In the past I've taken antibiotics which has resolved the symptoms, albeit temporarily. Symptoms usually returned after an antibiotic course within 2 months. My most recent experience with BV caused severe stomach pain, cramping, and constipation. The BV triggered Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS) symtoms. After a trip to the doctor, and several tests to rule out other disorders, the doctor concluded the same -- that BV had triggered IBS-like symtoms. I was given Flagyl which helped to relieve symptoms, including the stomach pain and constipation, and recovered two weeks later. However, much to my dismay, the BV returned during the third week of my recovery and the symptoms, to include stomach pain, began to return. I've held it in check and have overcome the symptoms using probiotics and this approach has been more effective for me than antibiotic treatment. The probiotic I used was liquid Bio-K. I used Bio-K, orally, twice daily for about a month. In addition, I inserted Bio-K vaginally once daily for 1 week. Bio-K reduced BV and my stomach symptoms in 3 days. After 1 week, the symptoms were gone. I now drink Bio-K once daily and insert Bio-K vaginally 3 times per week for maintenance. Since the product is expensive (about $5 per container), I'm supplementing my daily Bio-K intake with less expensive probiotic capsules to keep my healthy bacterial levels up. Bio-K can be purchased at most health food stores. I like the non-dairy formula (it tastes like mango) but have used the dairy formula with success. I hope this helps a fellow BV sufferer. -- SFgirl.
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babs
post May 14 2007, 04:27 PM
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Hi arj75.
Unfortunatly, Tinidazole is in the "zole" family, as in Metranitazole (flagyl) and I am highly allergic. Lactic acid is used in making most yogurts, I would be interested in what you found, is it used in pure form as a vaginal insert? And stainless steel douching?? Wow..do tell...the words sound a bit intimidating, but let me know what you read.
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arj75
post May 14 2007, 03:35 PM
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Hi Babs, I just found this a few moments ago, and well the information is a little old (2005) but the Europeans did or are still using this drug to treat BV. Not sure what chemical properties it has, or how you would go about ordering it (if you even can). Tinidazole.

I found some interesting information regarding latic acid today, and stainless steel douching as well.
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babs
post May 14 2007, 02:34 PM
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Thank you for your reply ajr75. The thought of telling my boyfriend terrifies me, but I know it will make things easier for me if he understands. I need to do it, and I know I will, its just a matter of finding the nerve. He is a very mature understanding man, so I am sure it will be fine.
As for me, I am 41. Caucasion, no smoking, no drug use, personality type...a nurturer! I have one daughter, almost 20. I first noticed my BV when I was around 13. Just about the time I hit puberty. I recall sitting crosslegged in the gym at school, and having the strong odor hit me like a brick, and uncrossing my legs! I did not become sexually aqctive until the age of 16. I had BV 3 years before I had my first sexual encounter. Because I have had it since puberty, I dont think anything I did or didnt do has resulted having BV. My health has been generaly good over the years, I am currently dealing with a back injury, the stress from that has been tough, but it seems in good times or bad, through out the years I hae had BV...no matter what. The one time I had complete relief from BV was when I was given a prescription for vaginal clindemyacin ovules. I used them six nights in a row, by the third nght, I was in so much pain, and my entire vagianal area swelled twice its size. This was the allergic reaction I described in my first post. This was about 4 years ago. However, after the allergic reaction went away, I had no symptoms of the BV for two months!! It was BLISS....but of course, it came back. The allergic reaction was so painful I did not try it again. But any ideas are welcomed. I have alot of timeon my hands and willing to try ANYTHING. I am so greatful to have an outlet for my frustration and sadness in this forum!
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arj75
post May 14 2007, 02:33 PM
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Hey you all,
This is something that you may want to just consider...I'm going to start monitoring my diet. There are a several sites that you can enter your information and it will record and calculate the information. It can't hurt nothing to improve our diets!! Until recently, I have been a fan of anything pickled, love salt, and I have a little french fries with my ketchup. Not only that, but i also love mustard, cole slaw..ok anything with vinegar. I have already read to exclude this from my diet, as it is considered to be a trigger. On the reverse end, some have used it as a douche and it has helped with the stinch.
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arj75
post May 14 2007, 02:08 PM
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Welcome to the board Babs,
I'm so sorry that you suffer from this as well. I really don't know what to tell you..other than not to give up. Recently, I told my boyfriend about this, and he was very understanding. It was not easy, and I'm sure it isn't for anyone. If he flees, then he isn't a man worth having around to start with. Any information that I find that I feel may be of a benefit to you, I most definately will inform you. And I will look! Like you, I have no insurance. I had a planned parenthood appointment today, and well, sure as shit, I started my period. This is the third month that it has been rescheduled (from their poor planning)..and when they resheduled this one, I wasn't worried about my period because I normally started later in the month. O well. Keep your chin up!

I'm interested in your past, and current health history,smoking, drug use, medications, blood type, nationality, personality type, and whatever else you are comfortable in sharing. If you want to bitch..feel free. I have already read several articles of how this may be induced from stress!!!

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babs
post May 14 2007, 01:35 PM
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Hello ladies. I am new to your forum. I found this site searching online for any information about BV and I almost cried when I came across this site. I feel so alone, so frustrated, so completely at my wits end from dealing with my BV for 28 years. All I long for is the ability to be spontanious when I have sex, completely comfortable and not worried about the odor. My love life is completely controled by my BV. I have seen Doctors over the years and was once given flagyl oraly, and turns out I am highly allergic. I have been given metranitozol, and clindamyacin (sorry about spelling) and I am very allergic to all forms of these medications,oral or vaginal. The only treatments offered to me I cant use. I have tried things that I have read about, or heard from others, like taking acidophilus orally, and vaginally, baking soda douche, garlic, vitamin C, internet quick fix herbal type pills, creams that claim to wipe out BV in a few days. I have eaten gallons of yogurt at a time, and even inserted it vaginally for a week, no help. I recently read online that Tetrasil works, so I ordered that, just got it in the mail today, but now an not sure how to use it, for how long, and is it safe to insert vaginally? I am so frustrated, so completley consumed with this BV I am not sure what to do. To find a place like this is a godsend. To know others out there are fighting the same battle is unreal.
So, I know that many of you have answered this same question over an over again, but I am hoping that your not to burned out to answer it again.......WHAT DO I DO? Knowing that I am highly allergic to the traditional medications prescribed for BV, any suggestions? Any thoughts on the tetrasil I just got? There is only one thing that takes the odor of BV away for me for a few hours, just long enough to have sex comfortably without the concern and fear of the odor, and its the suppository called Norforms. I get them at most drug stores. It does not take away my BV, just the odor for a few hours so I can at least have oral sex with my boyfriend without the dread. But I am desperate to find a permanent fix. I dont have insurance, so seeing multiple Doctors is not an option, and besides, all they offer is flagyl, or clindemyacin, and I cant take either.
I have been unable to share this problem with any man in my life. I cant bring myself to talk to my boyfriend now about it. Its a shameful secret I have kept for 28 years. He just thinks I am not spontaneous with sex, and maybe a bit frigid. Far from the truth. I love sex, and would love to have it more with him, but the fear of the offensive odor keeps me from it. PLEASE HELP! Thank you all so much.....
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sciongal
post May 14 2007, 01:33 PM
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Hi Jewels, ( and all)

Yay! I just got the flagyl tabs in the mail today...but would'nt ya know I started my period! Should I wait until the period is over to try the tablets vaginally??? Also, these are 400 mg strength, I know you used 500 mg, think this will be enough or should I make up the difference by cutting one in quarters also??? Sorry to be so nervous nellie, but I really am hoping this works as well for me as it has for you! Thanks.
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kittypassion
post May 14 2007, 01:16 PM
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Hi everyone, I just found out I have that same problem BV. Im scared cause as soon as I found out I went online and research as it was my thesis in college. I found interesting facts, hiwever i also found out of the negative consequences. I heard that BV can lead to pelvic inflamatory disease which causes a woman to be sterile. I want to have babies I am barely 23 years old and I plan on having at least one baby. Ever since I started to have sex (a year ago) everything has been nothing but problems. I have only had 3 partners. This recently one that I am being exclusively sleeping with I'm not comfortable speaking to about things like this... I don't want to jeopardize my 6 month relantionship.. sad.gif im at a point that I wish i never had sex and to do matters worse I have stopped having sex with him and he is becoming frustuated my me. some one please advise me cause I don't know what to do and i can't talk to my mom about this problem.
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