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> Bacterial Vaginosis--or--embarrassing bad smell
neverending
post Oct 30 2006, 10:38 AM
Post #4681


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Called Doctor office today and I am requesting estriol estrogen.I hope they just give it to me without having to come in.I heard estroil is supposed to be the safe estrogen.Does anyone know about this form of estrogen?
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chachaheels
post Oct 29 2006, 03:16 AM
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Eralc Alegna, the body's ability to heal itself is limitless. No one can say for certain what it can or can't do in each and every case. Everyone is very different, and no illness is simply "biological" or strictly physical in origin. We're just not constructed that way. So, some times what works for others with the same ailment may not work for you--you must factor in and address other factors into your health, factors many people like to think of as "holistic". What makes you susceptible to illness will be very different from what makes others susceptible, even when we're talking about the same illness! So we can never ignore the other factors in our entire lives and the roles they may play in our health.

Because this is true it is possible to restore health even if so much has been made to take place in the body via suppressive drugs and therapies. Every single case is different--but the key is trying to understand and know yourself and what it is in your life which makes these illnesses possible. It's the only way we can make the changes we need to make in our lives to bring health back.

I'm not sure where you are, but if you're in the US or Canada you can seek out a regulatory body or society which connects herbalists as practitioners but also sets standards for education and practice in your state or province. Organisations like this will accept only qualified practitioners as members and they will be able to provide you with some referrals for people who practice in your area. You want to find someone who has a basic foundation in the medical sciences; but more importantly you want someone who has studied botanical medicine theory, chemistry, and pharmacology (or what is often called pharmacognosy) and has completed some supervised clinic work. Any medical therapy requires a basic minimum of 5 years of study combining all of these disciplines as they apply to the specific treatment method. After you check for those qualifications, make sure you spend a few minutes talking to the practitioner to get a sense about what the consultation will involve, how they interact with you, how they decide which medicine to your in your case, and what they charge (if money is an issue, always ask about a sliding scale because you want to find someone who will try to accomodate you).

If you wish to find a naturopath, the same idea applies--seek out a regulatory body in your state or province and ask what their standards for membership include, then ask for qualified referrals in your area. Naturopaths are like the GPs of alternative medicine in that they study a little bit of various treatment modalities--but often they are required to choose a specialty and dedicate the majority of their studies to that treatment method. If you want to stick with herbal or botanical medicine, seek out an ND who specializes in using herbs. You can ask them to make suggestions in other modalities--such as with nutrition; in general I find good NDs will stick to the modality you request or the one they know best to get good results with each client. Many NDs, however, will try to use a bit of everything on you--this is not a recommended approach because many modalities are simply not meant to be used together (for example: homeopathy and herbs should not be used together--there's no need and one treatment can actually be hindered by the other one; herbs and nutritional therapies, on the other hand, often work very well together). Again, I highly recommend the quick, 10 minute or so phone interview with the NDs who've been referred to you so you get a "feel" for who they are, and what to expect with their treatment in terms of how they practice. Being able to feel like you can work easily with the practitioner makes the biggest difference in your success.

As for the boric acid, I'd stop for a little while and just let myself recover a bit. It's difficult for people to understand this, but with any medicine they will experience changes which may improve their situation; but continued use will create symptoms in the body which you don't want. All the drug effects can be experienced--from healing ones to ones which we mistakenly call "side" effects, which are really just more effects of the substance. Boric acid can be very healing if used properly, however long term use or use of too much of the substance will create effects as bad as or worse than the ailment you originally treated...that's why it's important to have someone who is trained in using the substance monitor your case. Boric acid is wonderful as a disinfectant in the body--it can kill off some of the organisms linked to the illness you experience--but overuse seems to weaken the body's own defenses against these organisms all together. After all, BV is much, much more than just the microorganisms involved.

As for the raw food diet, I treat my patients with nutritional therapies too and I always encourage more raw food in the diet in general--but I do believe we have inherited a great deal of knowledge about intensifying nutrient availability in foods through cooking methods and techniques, so I don't believe raw everything is healthy at all. Certainly, the raw food diets people like to push nowadays are strictly vegetarian or vegan, which I don't think suits everyone just fine (I think raw meat foods are also required in many diets, and they should also be eaten on occasion). Many people NEED to eat meat and if they choose a vegetarian or vegan diet they must supplement (which is really not ideal) or their health will not improve but rather decline.


--------------------
May suitable doses of guaranteed sensual pleasure and slow, long-lasting enjoyment preserve us from the contagion of the multitude who mistake frenzy for efficiency.
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jewelscando
post Oct 28 2006, 07:31 PM
Post #4683


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I smoke. And I'm sure it's slowing down the healing of this crap. I'm going to the Doctor on Wednesday for this skin eating disease rash I have that WON'T GO AWAY!!! sad.gif I'm going to ask her about the Estrogen since I am 37 and have had a Hysterectomy.

By the way, had sex Last night and no smell. What are the odds of that. Because trust me, the smell is there. Just didn't show itself.

I will let you all know how the doctor goes.
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pianogirl
post Oct 28 2006, 12:58 PM
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I've heard other people say that this doesn't work and everyone is different. But, I feel like this might be more natural and apparently has shown to help balance some women's flora in clinical trails. And hydrogen peroxide has no side effects and this rests a little more easily on my mind - if it's working, which it is. But seriously, I'm kinda coming to terms with dealing with some sort of bv maintenance right after my period.
[/quote]


Klee let us know how long have you been using hygrogen peroxide.


Thanks
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pianogirl
post Oct 28 2006, 12:35 PM
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QUOTE(neverending @ Oct 28 2006, 11:31 AM) *

autumnbreeze:I'm not sure how they did this.I guess they did one at a time.Sorry I can't be more help to you.

Ladies:
HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE TAKEN BIRTH CONTROL?



I was on seasonale for 7 months I started gettig bv 3 months into taking bc pills never again. sad.gif
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i_hate_sports
post Oct 28 2006, 09:54 AM
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neverending:

I've been on several different birth control pills, then nuvaring continuously for the past 10 years (age 16-25)

I went off last week and do not plan on going back on after reading about low levels of estrogen being a possible cause.
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neverending
post Oct 28 2006, 09:14 AM
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autumnbreeze:I'm not sure how they did this.I guess they did one at a time.Sorry I can't be more help to you.

Ladies:
HOW MANY OF YOU HAVE TAKEN BIRTH CONTROL?
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autumnbreeze
post Oct 28 2006, 08:29 AM
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QUOTE(neverending @ Oct 27 2006, 11:19 PM) *

THANKS PIANOGIRL! I will check it out.

LADIES MAYBE THIS MIGHT WORK FOR SOME OF YOU.

Bacterial vaginosis (BV) is a polymicrobial infection of the vagina and should not be considered an exclusively sexually transmitted disease. We describe the case of a 17-year-old female virgin adolescent with recurrent malodorous vaginal discharge for 6 months. Before referral to us she had been treated unsuccessfully with conservative treatment options. Our investigation revealed Gardnerella vaginalis as the responsible factor for the vaginal infection. Because metronidazole treatment had failed as monotherapy, a new method was applied. Repeated vaginal washings with 3% H2O2, 15% NaCl and 10% providone iodine were initiated. At the end of each washing, vaginal walls were thoroughly cleaned up with a small gauze. After 10 days of treatment the odor and the vaginal discharge had ceased and 12 months later no relapse had occurred. It seems to be reasonnable to use this kind of treatment in recurrent BV.



neverending: Thanks. This is my first time hearing about the NaCl. Do you know if the H2O2, NaCl, and providone iodine were all mixed together and applied or given separately?



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latinrican
post Oct 28 2006, 08:10 AM
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Here's some more info about the hydrogen peroxide that you all may want to read.

http://www.gentlebirth.org/archives/vagInfections.html
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neverending
post Oct 27 2006, 10:13 PM
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JUST POSTING FOR MY OWN RECORDS BECAUSE I'M GOING TO PRINT ALL OF THIS AND TAKE IT WITH ME TO MY NEXT DOCTORS APPOINTMENT.

Estrogen supports the growth of Lactobacillus, which helps maintain an acidic vaginal flora. This in turn creates an unsuitable environment for bacterial growth. Other examples of host defense mechanisms can be found in TABLE 3.4

The vaginal epithelium, which is highly estrogen dependent, becomes flattened and loses glycogen which leads to a decrease in lactobacillus, lactic acid, and a rise in vaginal pH. These alterations affect the vaginal microbial population and put aging women at a greater risk for developing bacterial infections.

With the loss of estrogen, the vaginal pH changes from a normally acidic low to a higher, more alkaline pH. This less acidic environment discourages the growth of important protective organisms, lactobacillus which acts as a bacterial guard against abnormal bacteria and yeasts. In the absence of lactobacillus, these "bad guys" overgrow and can cause discharge, irritation, and give rise to increased urinary tract infections.

The loss of estrogen also produces a change in the vaginal pH from a normally acidic low to a higher, more alkaline pH. This less acidic environment discourages the growth of important protective organisms such as lactobacillus, which act as a bacterial guard against abnormal bacteria and yeasts. In the absence of lactobacillus, bacterial vaginal infections may occur more frequently, causing discharge and irritation, and contributing to increased urinary tract infections.(THIS IS PROBABLY WHY WE CAN TAKE ALL THE acidophilus WE WANT BUT ARE STILL UNABLE TO BALANCE THE VAGINAL PH BECAUSE THEY(lactobacillus) DON'T EVEN GET A CHANCE TO GROW.LOOK AT THE 2ND SENTENCE AND NOTICE HOW IT SAYS "DISCOURAGES THE GROWTH OF IMPORTANT PROTECTIVE ORGANISMS SUCH AS LACTOBACILLUS".THIS EXPLAINS WHY THE INFECTION KEEPS COMING BACK NO MATTER WHAT WE DO.)

Since estrogen has a major role in maintaining the health and function of not just the vagina, but all tissues including the uterus, urinary bladder, and urethra, low levels of the hormone may cause these organs to weaken and shrink. When the bladder is affected, urinary incontinence, infection or painful urination may occur.

Women who are on contraceptive medications have a very low level of estrogen for the intent of contraceptives is to suppress normal ovarian function and prevent ovulation, therefore preventing a possible pregnancy.

A decrease in estrogen results in several vaginal changes. The vaginal lining becomes thinner and more fragile resulting in an increased risk of bacterial infection.

Small amounts of topical estrogen applied over a few weeks to the vaginal and vulvar tissues typically result in a dramatic response, with thickening, lubrication, and return of elasticity to the tissues

Because topical estrogen products contain unopposed estrogen, there is the possibility that they could cause endometrial proliferation, hyperplasia, or carcinoma

Decreased estrogen levels cause the vaginal pH to become more alkaline, typically with levels greater than 5.0. Microscopic examination of the vaginal secretions often reveals decreased lactobacilli, and can also be used to rule out other causes of vaginitis (e.g., bacterial vaginosis, candidiasis, and trichomoniasis).[1] If the diagnosis is still uncertain after the history, physical examination, and testing described, a smear from the upper third of the vaginal wall can be sent for cytologic examination. Typically, there will be decreased superficial cells and increased basal and parabasal cells with atrophic vaginitis.[3]

With normal use of vaginal estriol cream at the dose you been prescribed — which is standard — side effects are very rare. A few individuals are allergic to the cream base with which the pharmacist mixes the estriol. If that occurs, the base can be changed.

The vaginally-applied dosages of estriol effective for relief of vaginal dryness result in negligible systemic absorption. That means you don’t have to worry about breast or uterine cancer being stimulated by vaginal estriol. Estriol is a weak bioidentical estrogen that is produced in particularly high amounts during pregnancy. It has a very robust local effect on the estrogen receptors in vaginal tissue, thus reducing vaginal dryness and thickening vaginal mucosa in a matter of a few days or weeks.

At this time, estriol is available only through formulary pharmacies in this country, although it has a long history of routine use in Europe. The pharmacist prepares it as a cream for application with a syringe. You draw a half-gram of cream into the syringe and place it deep within the vagina. It’s a good idea to take your finger and spread a little around the opening of the vagina and the outer third of the urethra, as well, which is just under the vaginal surface at about 12 o’clock. Start with 0.5 grams, twice per day for one week. This will build up the vaginal tissue effectively. Then decrease to 0.5 grams, once per day. By the third week you will probably be able to decrease to a maintenance dose of 0.5 grams, twice per week. It’s best to apply the cream several hours before intercourse to allow the tissue adequate time for absorption. A small amount won’t hurt your partner, however.

No woman should have to suffer from urinary or vaginal symptoms that are the result of changing estrogen levels, whether this occurs due to excessive stress, following childbirth, during perimenopause or at any other life transition. Estriol is a great solution when the over-the-counter remedies aren’t enough. And there is essentially no risk. (See Supporting Reference 2.)
Estriol Helps Maintain Healthy Vaginal Tissue

Vaginal dryness and atrophy, urinary frequency, and repeat urinary tract infections are problems that many women experience during perimenopause, menopause, and other periods of estrogen decline. These symptoms occur because falling estrogen levels can lead to thinning of the vaginal and urethral tissue.

Estriol has a very robust local effect on the many estrogen receptors in these tissues and can be useful in reducing vaginal dryness and thickening skin and mucosa in a matter of a few days or weeks. Studies show estriol also lowers vaginal pH, promoting a healthy environment for the growth of protective flora, which may then help prevent urinary tract infections. Most often, a small amount of estriol in an individually compounded cream or suppository is prescribed for use two or three times a week

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neverending
post Oct 27 2006, 09:02 PM
Post #4691


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THANKS PIANOGIRL! I will check it out.

LADIES MAYBE THIS MIGHT WORK FOR SOME OF YOU.

Bacterial vaginosis (BV) is a polymicrobial infection of the vagina and should not be considered an exclusively sexually transmitted disease. We describe the case of a 17-year-old female virgin adolescent with recurrent malodorous vaginal discharge for 6 months. Before referral to us she had been treated unsuccessfully with conservative treatment options. Our investigation revealed Gardnerella vaginalis as the responsible factor for the vaginal infection. Because metronidazole treatment had failed as monotherapy, a new method was applied. Repeated vaginal washings with 3% H2O2, 15% NaCl and 10% providone iodine were initiated. At the end of each washing, vaginal walls were thoroughly cleaned up with a small gauze. After 10 days of treatment the odor and the vaginal discharge had ceased and 12 months later no relapse had occurred. It seems to be reasonnable to use this kind of treatment in recurrent BV.
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pianogirl
post Oct 27 2006, 08:56 PM
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Hi Neverending

I went to the health food store to buy kefir and I saw estrogen pills. If you have a nearby healthfood store you should check it out.

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neverending
post Oct 27 2006, 08:39 PM
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Here is something else I've found:

Researchers suggest that estrogen may resist infection by increasing the number of lactobacilli, the micro-organisms that fight infection by lowering the vaginal pH levels and preventing E. coli from adhering to vaginal cells. Taking oral estrogen does not seem to provide the same benefit as the topical forms, and in any case is proving to have some health risks.
WHY DON'T DOCTORS JUST GIVE ESTROGEN INSTEAD OF BIRTH CONTROL?I WOULD MUCH RATHER DO THIS INSTEAD BECAUSE I'VE BEEN MARRIED FOR SO LONG AND I WOULD LOVE CHILDREN.DOES ANYBODY KNOW IF ESTROGEN IS SAFE TO USE AND CAN I BUY IT ON THE INTERNET?
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klee
post Oct 27 2006, 10:44 AM
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I smoke but probably go through about a pack and a half a week...so not a ton. But, this is a good reason to quit.

I think the trick w/the hydrogen peroxide is to actually keep the stuff in there for a few minutes. The type of bacteria that likes to create havoc in our cooch does not like oxygen...which is what hydrogen peroxide provides and I used it straight from the bottle since that's 3%. So when I used the funnel, I used my feet on the sides of my tub to really prop up my hips almost straight up. Keeping the funnel in place will help the liquid stay inside. The first study had the women using h-p for a week.

I've heard other people say that this doesn't work and everyone is different. But, I feel like this might be more natural and apparently has shown to help balance some women's flora in clinical trails. And hydrogen peroxide has no side effects and this rests a little more easily on my mind - if it's working, which it is. But seriously, I'm kinda coming to terms with dealing with some sort of bv maintenance right after my period.
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Eralc Alegna
post Oct 27 2006, 10:15 AM
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Chachaheels - what would we do without you? I'm so glad you're here! How can I find a good herbalist though? I have no idea where to look and how to guage credibility. I'm definitely refusing the pill now though, I knew that s@#% wasn't right.
Oh yea, used to be a smoker. I've quit like 5 different times but for good at lent last year. besides the occasional drunkin indulgence. Once I read that smoking could be a factor in BV they were gone!
And I tried the hydrogen peroxide undilluted everyday for like a month and nothing... but I guess everyone is different. I could only find a 10ml syringe though and just let it run out, i didn't hold it in.
oh and chacha, i've been using the boric for about 3 weeks 2x a day and my symptoms have improved a bit but it is by no means gone. I should quit using it then? for how long?

* sorry, naturopath. Maybe i really should push myself to this raw food diet. Would it give me a chance of restoring ballance in my hormones and whatever else modern medicine has destroyed for me?
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autumnbreeze
post Oct 27 2006, 08:09 AM
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I've never been a smoker.

klee: Good article. I recently tried the hydrogen peroxide douche..it worked temporarily. I read some other articles about probiotics and BV. It seems that L. acidophilus alone may not be enough. Also, the good bacteria may be killed by stomach acid when taken orally and if it does make it through, it has a hard time colonizing and reproducing. So I'm thinking maybe I should increase intake of the probiotics. I wish there was a high-potency lactobacilli injection (or something of the sort) we could get from the doctor.

Contemporary Issues in Women's Health: The Rationale for Probiotics in Female Urogenital Healthcare

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlere...i?artid=1140735



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latinrican
post Oct 27 2006, 08:02 AM
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Pianogirl.... I used the Boric Acid once a day every other day for 2 weeks. I was a little scared to use it every day. My period came on and then the smell came back. I got back on it but used one capsule about every 3 to 4 days. My goal was just to try to use the least amount of BA capsules as possible. Im now using it once a week and hopefully can just get off of it indefinitely. Im on my period now so Im curious to see if the smell will come back.

Neverending....same area , huh? Well we need to build a coffee shop and name it "BV" and name all of our coffees after each medication everyone has tried ....lol. ***sigh*** (trying to add a lil humor) but thanks for the website...I will definitely chk it out.

Pympmama1.... I do not smoke and never have.





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pianogirl
post Oct 27 2006, 06:15 AM
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I do not smoke so I do not think somoking is the culprit for me. sad.gif

\\


Klee do you add water to the hydrogen peroxide?

Also are you still using boric acid?

I started drinking kefir and taking a pill form of probiotics and am still on boric acid.

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pympmama1
post Oct 27 2006, 03:27 AM
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How many of you smoke... I keep seeing report about idividuals that smoke are more susceptiable to bv
I smoke... but even when I stopped smoking for a year ... it did not go away... I am curious ... how many on the board... have the same behavior.....which could be a contributing factor to our recurrences
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klee
post Oct 27 2006, 12:58 AM
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Okay- long post but check out this article here: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...p;dopt=Abstract

I've read a few articles from this site and it's been really interesting! Apparently this is basically what is wrong with all of us: "Our results showed that women with BV lack lactobacilli, especially hydrogen peroxide producing ones." Essentially healthy women have higher amounts of lactic acid and hydrogen peroxide producing lactobacilli. And smokers do an even worse job at generating this stuff. Apparently a really good strain of lactobacilli/lactic acid is found in molasses!

So I tried this out since I get the amine smell after my period - OFTEN. And I see that some doctors actually recommend some sort of wash after menses. Anyway, all is well right now. And hydrogen peroxide is cheap. I'm guessing a "vaginal irrigation" is a douche. I actually got in the shower and laid on my back propping my hips way up using my legs and used a little funnel and just held still for about 3 minutes. I chose 3 minutes after reading this here:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.f...st_uids=8876361

It's really not that big of a pain in the ass considering other treatments and it's possible that some of us may need to do this monthly after our periods. What I'm hoping is that doing this and figuring out my probiotics will help me get my cooch in order and after a while won't have a monthly bv episode.
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