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> Bacterial Vaginosis--or--embarrassing bad smell
lori
post Apr 14 2008, 12:55 PM
Post #1741


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QUOTE(tabby @ Apr 14 2008, 04:13 AM) *
I just want to share what triggered *my* BV/YEAST hell. It all began after I started using natural progesterone cream to manage peri-menopausal issues. After about 5 months of the cream, my yeast and bv troubles began.

[...]

I'm so tired of suffering and struggling each day in my life with my vagina burning every day all day.

Once again, it looks like what you're describing, tabby, is "atrophic vaginitis," which can happen to women approaching menopause, and one of its known symptoms is burning, which is not typical of BV.

I'm not trying to diagnose what you have. I'm not your doctor, or you. But what you've described looks like atrophic vaginitis. I think you should make a very clear distinction that you're at an age where hormonal fluctuations are an issue, and also that you suffer from yeast as well.

Looking at your very long list of stuff you've tried and didn't work - it looks like a lot of treatment for BV and yeast, but nothing specific for atrophic vaginitis. Do you think it's possible that you might be focusing on BV/yeast when in fact you might have a different problem?

As I pointed out before, boric acid IS a known cure for certain yeast infections that don't respond to monistat, etc. So this may be the answer for you, and it made Maggie feel better. But obviously some women in here aren't clear about all your issues, so they've come to think boric acid is the answer for their BV. This kind of confusion needs to be cleared up.

Women of any age can experience hormonal issues, because of birth control, childbirth, and many other reasons. But the potential hormonal problems have been lumped together as a general possible cause, and that needs to stop. Because it really is an entirely different category, with an entirely different set of treatments.

QUOTE(tabby @ Apr 14 2008, 04:13 AM) *
I'm a grown woman and I can pretty much sniff out the get well quick schemes.

History of this thread will indicate that not every one can.

And it's not even just about get-well-quick schemes for me, but potential injury. Not that Sylk lubricant is in that category, but if you read this entire thread like I have, you'll know that it's been an issue in the past.

QUOTE(tabby @ Apr 14 2008, 04:13 AM) *
If anything has been learned during this time of suffering, it's that what works for one woman may not work for another. That each has their own body chemistry, has reasons for why something may or may not work.

I agree with that. That is why I think before advocating a course of treatment, we should provide good explanations and research for why we've chosen it, so each reader can make an informed decision about whether it's an appropriate option for them.


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tabby
post Apr 14 2008, 04:56 AM
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I just want to share what triggered *my* BV/YEAST hell. It all began after I started using natural progesterone cream to manage peri-menopausal issues. After about 5 months of the cream, my yeast and bv troubles began.

I went to an ND in Berkeley, Ca. and a chinese herbalist who both told me that the hormonal changes happened either by going into peri-menopause OR by using the cream. (I am speaking for myself here, not all women who use natural progesterone cream) Either way, I can say for *me* the cause was hormonal changes.

I stopped using the cream, but that has not solved the problem. This is a comprehensive list of things I have tried since 2006:

Food - elimination diet - all sugar, processed, yeast, dairy, nuts, soy
Acidophils/lacto - by mouth, douche, suppository
Acidophilus Milk
Pau d' arco - by tea, tincture, douche
Goldenseal - tea, tincture, douche
Echinacea - tea, capsule, tincture
Tea Tree Oil - suppository, sitz bath, washes
Enzara
Hydrogen Peroxide - washes, douche
Apple Cider Vinegar
Vinegar douches, sitz bath
Standing in the Ocean
Standing in a pool
Liver flushes
Betadine - douche
Monistat
Nystatin - vaginal tablets, oral tablets, cream, douche
Terconazole
Oil of Oregano - diluted with olive oil
Vitamins and Minerals including Folic Acid, vitamin C - by mouth or as a suppository
Digestive Enzymes
Omega fatty 3 acids - still on
Water cure
Colloidal Silver
Candigen
Yeast Guard
Homeopathies - Pulsatilla, Phos
Boiron - Yeast Away
AZO Yeast
Cranberry supplements
Plain Yogurt - eating, tampon, douche - still eat plain yogurt
Baking Soda - by mouth, douche
Garlic - capsuled, clove, douche with powder
Flagyl - endless rounds
Tindamax
Zithromax
Cipro
Keflex
Erythromycin
Diflucan
Amphotericin
Cleocin
Clindamycin
Doxycycline
Clindesse
Paxil - because at one point one doctor said it was all in my head
Blood tests - CBC, sed rate, thyroid panel, yeast, liver function/enzymes
Numerous pelvic exams/tests


Now I'm pretty sure there are a few things I'm missing. But this is about everything I have tried and everything that has failed for me. That doesn't mean it may not be someone else's magic bullet. I'm not here to argue or pick apart what one person claims or what another is posting about. I'm searching for anything I can utilize that could possibly help me. I'm so tired of suffering and struggling each day in my life with my vagina burning every day all day. I can't play with my child as I used to. Can't be intimate with my husband. Can't stand to sit long, walk too long, go shopping, to a movie, dinner... BV and yeast is stealing the quality of my life and I'm going to fight like hell and try everything to get it back. Even if I did try something that doesn't work. I can say, I tried it, and cross it off the list. I want people like Maggie to be heard as well as Lori. We all have something to share. I'm a grown woman and I can pretty much sniff out the get well quick schemes.

If anything has been learned during this time of suffering, it's that what works for one woman may not work for another. That each has their own body chemistry, has reasons for why something may or may not work. But thank goodness we have a network to communicate the experiences through. Otherwise, I wouldn't be maintaining my sanity. Lord knows, I have cried enough tears.

Now, as far as my first Boric acid capsule goes, it didn't burn after insertion. I was qute afraid though! When I woke, my period had began, but I was not burning, and still am not yet. I have burned during periods when the infection is bad enough before. So a period doesn't always stop my burning.

Maggie, I have a question for you if you don't mind. Did you continue on with the boric acid during periods too? I would like to continue if possible. Thank you!

Peace to everyone.
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lori
post Apr 13 2008, 11:30 PM
Post #1743


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QUOTE(CanCan @ Apr 13 2008, 05:32 PM) *
Hi everyone again,
I think I need to expand on what I was mentioning earlier, that hormonal issues sometimes can lead to BV. I know not all of us have hormonal imbalances, but it is quite common for many women to get bv from some sort of hormonal imbalance.

Lori does bring up a good point, that for women that have hormonal issues, this would have to be treated. And some women have. They have corrected their hormonal imbalance by improving their diet, perhaps eliminating stress, etc. etc. Or using the Nuvaring, or estrogen cream, or a combination or estrogen and progesterone cream or other hormone therapy. Or you can choose not to. Some women do not agree with hormone (replacement) therapy. And this is of course your choice to make.

After listening to everyone here and also reading about BV I notice that: some women get bv when they go on or off the birth control pill. Some get bv due to hormonal fluctuations due to onset or end of pregnancy. Some get bv from hormonal imbalance caused by the onset of menopause. These are hormonal triggers. Many times hormonal drop-offs cause a woman's natural cervical and vaginal secretions to diminish. As well, as you get older many women's skin gets dryer and thinner. That includes all skin.. even the skin in the vaginal canal.


What you've described is called "atrophic vaginitis." It's not BV caused by a hormonal imbalance, it's just another type of vaginitis. CanCan, I'm not saying YOU didn't have BV triggered by your hormones. But what you've described isn't BV at all.

I think this distinction needs to be made. I think there are too many women in here who self-diagnose a hormonal imbalance, and even self-treat, and others who jump on the bandwagon, thinking, "gosh, maybe I have a hormone problem too."

I think if anyone suspects a hormone problem, they should be examined by an endocrinologist.

I think it's useful to discuss hormonal imbalance, just for knowledge's sake, but it's really a different topic altogether. I think we should at least make a distinction.


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lori
post Apr 13 2008, 11:22 PM
Post #1744


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QUOTE(CanCan @ Apr 13 2008, 04:56 PM) *
Who said anything about Boric Acid being a cure.

Maggie said that boric acid put her "on the road to health" regarding her BV "interspersed" with yeast. I don't think she made that clear enough, so that readers would understand that the boric acid didn't cure her BV.

QUOTE(CanCan @ Apr 13 2008, 04:56 PM) *
And who said Sylk lubricant was a cure? I know I didn't, and I'm sure no one else here did either.

I never said anyone claimed Sylk was a cure.


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CanCan
post Apr 13 2008, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE(lori @ Apr 12 2008, 02:14 PM) *
QUOTE(CanCan @ Apr 9 2008, 04:54 PM)
Yes, I'm sure many BV cases are linked to imbalanced hormones.

I think this is another misconception. Vaginitis caused by hormonal imbalance is a completely different issue, and the treatment for it is different as well. We shouldn't conflate these categories.

Hi everyone again,
I think I need to expand on what I was mentioning earlier, that hormonal issues sometimes can lead to BV. I know not all of us have hormonal imbalances, but it is quite common for many women to get bv from some sort of hormonal imbalance.

Lori does bring up a good point, that for women that have hormonal issues, this would have to be treated. And some women have. They have corrected their hormonal imbalance by improving their diet, perhaps eliminating stress, etc. etc. Or using the Nuvaring, or estrogen cream, or a combination or estrogen and progesterone cream or other hormone therapy. Or you can choose not to. Some women do not agree with hormone (replacement) therapy. And this is of course your choice to make.

After listening to everyone here and also reading about BV I notice that: some women get bv when they go on or off the birth control pill. Some get bv due to hormonal fluctuations due to onset or end of pregnancy. Some get bv from hormonal imbalance caused by the onset of menopause. These are hormonal triggers. Many times hormonal drop-offs cause a woman's natural cervical and vaginal secretions to diminish. As well, as you get older many women's skin gets dryer and thinner. That includes all skin.. even the skin in the vaginal canal. With thinning skin and dryer skin come the problem of thinner mucosal membranes which make it harder to support microbial growth of Lactic Acid Bacteria. Also LAB bacteria require certain nutrients from your vaginal skin and vaginal mucosal membrane in order to live. So if the skin gets thinner there, problems arise. As well, if there is too much friction there because of sex (from rough sex, or from unlubricated sex), and the skin is traumatized, there will be problems. Because the 'food source' is eliminated, and the colonization of good bacteria on the skin is compromised or rubbed off. If the epithelial cells are damaged or removed from friction or hormonal changes, the beneficial bacteria won't have anything to feed on. The epithelial cells provide the glycogen food source.

And for most of us it is a combination of things that set the stage for BV.. for me it was hormonal fluctuation from stress and thyroid issues, plus the fact that I used a douche numerous times consecutively, and having sex with my boyfriend (with him not pulling out), therefore extended duration ph changes.

[ ...(bacteria) colonizes the vagina because glycogen is produced which provides the bacteria with a source of sugar that they ferment to lactic acid.

During reproductive life, from puberty to menopause, the vaginal epithelium contains glycogen due to the actions of circulating estrogens. Doderlein's bacillus predominates, being able to metabolize the glycogen to lactic acid. The lactic acid and other products of metabolism inhibit colonization by all except this lactobacillus and a select number of lactic acid bacteria. The resulting low pH of the vaginal epithelium prevents establishment by most other bacteria as well as the potentially-pathogenic yeast, Candida albicans. This is a striking example of the protective effect of the normal bacterial flora for their human host.

http://www.bact.wisc.edu/themicrobialworld/NormalFlora.html ]
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CanCan
post Apr 13 2008, 05:50 PM
Post #1746


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QUOTE(lori @ Apr 12 2008, 02:14 PM) *
QUOTE(CanCan @ Apr 9 2008, 04:54 PM)
Yes, I'm sure many BV cases are linked to imbalanced hormones.

I think this is another misconception. Vaginitis caused by hormonal imbalance is a completely different issue, and the treatment for it is different as well. We shouldn't conflate these categories.


It may be a different issue in your opinion, but the end result is still BV - with the bv smell and discharge. And my doctor still tested me and gave me a bv diagnosis. I am not trying to say that all women with bv have hormonal issues, but there is a link there for some of us.
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CanCan
post Apr 13 2008, 05:39 PM
Post #1747


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QUOTE(lori @ Apr 12 2008, 05:25 PM) *
Some ladies in here have found boric acid to relieve their BV symptoms, but no one so far has found it to be a cure. I've done research on boric acid and BV, and have yet to find anything that supports its use for BV.

Who said anything about Boric Acid being a cure. And who said Sylk lubricant was a cure? I know I didn't, and I'm sure no one else here did either. I am a proponent of Femdophilus, I think it is the best probiotic for women out there yet, and I think it is a cure if taken properly and with the correct combination of other precautions taken at the same time; but it is not a cure for everyone, because if it was, we wouldn't be sitting here talking to each other about BV. Some of us have taken Femdophilus for months and still have bv. I believe that it is part of the equation, probably the most important part, but like many illnesses, a combination of things may have to be done at the same time to bring the body back into equilibrium first - so that the Reuteri and Rhamnosus can thrive and do their job. So in my opinion, a few things that must be done at the same time:

correct the vaginal ph (make it slightly more acidic)
eliminate the pathogenic bacteria in your vagina
eliminate the pathogenic bacteria residing in your intestinal tract
introduce the correct bacteria into your vagina (femdophilus)
maintain normal vaginal moisture levels
use a (slightly acidic) lubricant during sex if you have dryness issues

Millions of women get BV worldwide, and believe that it was one thing or one occurance that gave it to them.. but I believe that that one thing was just the last straw. I will guess that it was a combination of factors that gave them the infection. And if it was a combination of things that set the stage to give you an infection, is it so unreasonable to think that maybe a combination of things may have to be done to get it back to normal health?
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tabby
post Apr 13 2008, 02:26 PM
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QUOTE(kinkaju @ Apr 9 2008, 11:29 PM) *
I was taking a probiotic called Reuteri a few years ago when I was having recurring yeast issues. I found it in the refrigerated section of Mrs. Green's Natural Market, near where I live. In fact, I saw the same exact kind just last week when I went into that store.

This is the one I took: http://www.potentherbs.com/shop/reuteri-naturesway.html


Thank you very much!
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tabby
post Apr 13 2008, 02:20 PM
Post #1749


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QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 10 2008, 12:01 AM) *
This was my story for about a year. What FINALLY helped me was figuring out (in tandem with my late gyn) that the burning was caused by a yeast infection comprised of non-Albicans Candida. The species I was infected with are very resistant to most all yeast-infection medications, even Diflucan. What finally helped was stearing clear of Flagyl (which encourages yeast growth) and using boric acid vaginally, then re-populating the vagina with the correct strains of Lactobacilli. This was before Fem-Dophilus was available in the USA. It was called Ombe in Europe. I had to get friends who lived in Austria to buy it for me & mail it to me. But that one-two punch did the trick. My gyn had a compounding pharmacy make up 300-mg. capsules of boric acid to use once every night for two weeks, vaginally. (Most "recipes" say to use 600-mg. to fill a capsule, but my gyn agreed that the "European method" of just using 300-mg. should work fine.) A pantyliner is necessary when using boric acid, since it drips out over time.
I was afraid of putting something with the name ACID into my already burning-with-fire vagina, but it actually felt soothing as it dissolved/melted in there.


(sorry I'm late responding!)

Thanks Maggie!

After reading this, I'm inspired to give the boric acid a try. You put it exactly how I feel. Putting something named "acid" into something on fire makes me want to run. I ordered FemDophilus, and looking forward to giving this a try. I'm starting to believe that I too must have a yeast that will not respond to anything allopathic or natural I have tried. I'm sort of hoping this might be my magic bullet, yet I'm cautious about being hopeful when all else has failed. When I look in the cabinet, with all of the things I have bought I should open my own pharmacy lol.
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sooo sad
post Apr 12 2008, 09:06 PM
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hi sprinkles...
thanks for your welcome...hopefully we all can help each other overcome this darn thing!!!
sooo sad
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lori
post Apr 12 2008, 05:23 PM
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QUOTE(sciongal @ Apr 12 2008, 04:18 PM) *
wow...actually as a matter of fact , I HAVE been reading this post since last year and I do remember the back and forth...it got quite ugly...so as I do not choose to get into another condescending match with anyone, I will just keep my comments to my self and wish you all the absolute best in overcoming this condition. Peace...

For the record, I just want to say that I NEVER engaged in the ugliness. I never called anyone names or picked fights with anyone. When things got out of hand, I just removed myself from the situation.

I think some people get a little too invested in what works for them, and take offense when others question it. If your method really works, it will stand up to scrutiny. I'm not here to knock anyone's ideas, I just think it should be backed up with research.


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lori
post Apr 12 2008, 05:18 PM
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QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 12 2008, 04:12 PM) *
Yes, my problem was repeated episodes of BV interspersed with non-Albicans yeast infections. It was the latter that caused the BURNING, which was what I was asked about. My gynecologists (two of them in fact) suggested that to stop the cycle, boric acid was the way to go. Since using it, and, granted, several other things like Estrace cream, SYLK, Fem-Dophilus and tea tree oil suppositories, I have never experienced either BV or yeast infections in over 18 months. But boric acid was the initial and main treatment that got me on the road to health.

So basically, you don't know if boric acid contributed to curing your BV at all.

I think you should make that very clear - which is the only point I was ever making. You've conflated BV and yeast, and obviously, it's led to confusion.

QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 12 2008, 04:12 PM) *
If you don't like boric acid or the acidifying-the-vagina methodology, that is entirely your right, as it is mine (and my gynecologists') to advocate it.

If you're going to "advocate" a treatment, I think you should have very good reasons for why you are urging people to use your methods, beyond merely suggesting it. And I, or anyone, can ask about the research behind your methods. You don't have to provide the research, but I can ask you about it.

And I explained my reasons for objecting to your claiming Sylk works as a preventative, for which there is no basis. Obviously some women are thinking of buying it based on your recommendation, and I think you've led them to expect more from it than they will get. Again, I think it's my right to ask you why you said that.

You don't have to answer (and you apparently won't), but I can still ask.


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sciongal
post Apr 12 2008, 05:01 PM
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wow...actually as a matter of fact , I HAVE been reading this post since last year and I do remember the back and forth...it got quite ugly...so as I do not choose to get into another condescending match with anyone, I will just keep my comments to my self and wish you all the absolute best in overcoming this condition. Peace...
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mfc10
post Apr 12 2008, 04:55 PM
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QUOTE(lori @ Apr 12 2008, 04:25 PM) *
But your problem wasn't BV. As you said yourself, it was a persistent yeast infection (which boric acid *is* a known cure for).


Yes, my problem was repeated episodes of BV interspersed with non-Albicans yeast infections. It was the latter that caused the BURNING, which was what I was asked about. My gynecologists (two of them in fact) suggested that to stop the cycle, boric acid was the way to go. Since using it, and, granted, several other things like Estrace cream, SYLK, Fem-Dophilus and tea tree oil suppositories, I have never experienced either BV or yeast infections in over 18 months. But boric acid was the initial and main treatment that got me on the road to health.

If you don't like boric acid or the acidifying-the-vagina methodology, that is entirely your right, as it is mine (and my gynecologists') to advocate it.

Peace out.
Maggie
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lori
post Apr 12 2008, 03:32 PM
Post #1755


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QUOTE(sciongal @ Apr 12 2008, 01:54 PM) *
no offense, but I thought this was a forum for EVERYONE to discuss what does and does not work for them ...individually.... as different as all of our bodies are, there may or may not be methods that work well for each of us.

Yeah, I see what you're saying.

I'm sorry to be such a killjoy, but as I explained recently, this thread, from its inception, is a long, sad chronicle of "bad product pussy explosions." Ladies getting excited about some crackpot product (jamu stick!), everyone shoving it up their bajingos, and everyone suffering from burns a week later. Not to mention the time and money wasted. It's practically tragic.

And not to toot my own horn, but I think more ladies have felt better and improved their health by reading my blog and following my suggestions, than they have in the history of the thread. And did that happen because I have some spectacular secret treatment? No. I just urge people to make informed decisions. I think people tend to kind of "jump on the bandwagon" in here, without fully knowing why or how something supposedly works.

So I don't think clearing up obvious misconceptions amounts to "not being supportive." My latest points are:

- manually acidifying the vagina alone does not accomplish cure/prevention
- hormonal-related vaginitis is not BV
- BV may cause potential pregnancy complications

Is sharing these facts a bad thing? I don't think so. I think everyone needs to know this. It's up to them what they do with the information. Do I have credibility? Does what I say make sense? It's up to every individual to make that judgment themselves. Just make the most informed judgment you can about what treatment to use.

And I'm also not saying people can't share what works for them. I'm just challenging everyone to back it up with some research. If you have a problem with that, then you know ... whatever. But I think I've contributed a lot to keeping people from setting their vaginas on fire. I may have stepped on a few toes along the way, but if you've been reading in this group since 3/2007, then you should know that I don't care about that.

Bottom line: if I think somebody is saying something that is wrong or misleading, and may lead to false hope and bad potentially harmful decisions, then I will speak up. I'm sorry I don't do that with hugs and kisses and tippy toes. People can digest the conflicting information and make their decision, or they can call me a cunt. Whatever. As long as the information is out there, that's all I care about.

--

*So again, to Maggie: I think when you say that SYLK is a BV preventative, and also when you say that it's the only lubricant with the right pH, you are being misleading. (For example, The V Book recommends Replens, and I think RePhresh even claims to lower your pH to a healthy level.) I think it's great that SYLK works for you. But obviously women will be ordering it because of what you said, expecting some great results, and being disappointed, because you are making claims about the product without support.

So I'm going to speak out about that. I'm sorry if that makes you unhappy. I don't have personal animosity towards you, and I think you're a valuable contributor to this thread. But I think you are making unsupported claims about a product, so ... yeah, well, there you go. I don't think you should do that. I just don't think applying SYLK (or any acidic solution) prevents BV. Feel free to prove me wrong anytime. (Come on, girl, you're a chemistry professor!)


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neverending
post Apr 12 2008, 03:27 PM
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QUOTE(SpRiNkLeS @ Apr 11 2008, 06:21 AM) *
Hey ladies!

Hmmm, so I haven’t checked in here in like a week. It’s been interesting reading what worked for some of you BV free gals, thanks for the tips. Anyway so last night I screwed up my life again. I kinda sorta ummmmmm, like you know……..made myself feel better. Ok so we’re all adults here. I masturbated. Well the point here is that now today I’m gettin ammonia whiffs. My body thinks I actually had sex!!! What the frick?!!!!! I didn’t even get to enjoy a live penis, what the hell!!!!!!!!!! I’m practicing celibacy, I have no time whatsoever for a boyfriend right now plus I want this shit gone completely before I get reacquainted with the penis. I’m getting all antsy now, I mean talk about wantin some man. I DREAM of a nice, throbbing penis. Seriously though a couple days ago I had floating penises throughout the dream!! It’s horrible I’m like all undressing guys with my eyes now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So they totally think I want it you know? Uugh. I so need some though, you know? I just don’t want the drama attached.

I guess it’s back to the old TTO again. When I woke up this morning I made an appointment with my new doctor because I want to switch up my BC again after getting some horror stories for the one I’m on. Also I need something better to take away my sex drive….celibacy ain’t easy. This time I’m asking for a metrogel prescription. I know, I know. I really shouldn’t but hey, I lasted as long as I could. It worked so well and long last time, the only reason why I feel my body didn’t get a chance to balance out the hormones is because I stopped taking BC AND also forgot to continue with the Acidophilus due to busy schedules. This time I want to give the Fem D another shot in addition to the Acidophilus, especially after all the success stories I just read. Only problem is the next available appointment is not for another month. WHAT! I want it NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I really liked this new doctor the last time, I got in way sooner too. Oh and he gives me whatever prescriptions I want. He’s hella coooooooooooool!!!!!

So anyway keep up the suggestions, I went a little under budget last month so whoop! Whoop! I think I’ll go on a vitamin spree!!!

Oh yeah. I want to welcome all the newbies that I haven’t personally said Hi to yet: Sooo sad, Tabby, Damselindistress, Ladylyn. Hi girls!!! Welcome and never feel embarrassed to share, you just might be helping someone else. We all need as much info as we can get.


OMG! WTF? U are too funny! LMAO@ FLOATING PENISES------->PRICELESS!
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lori
post Apr 12 2008, 03:08 PM
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QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 12 2008, 12:34 PM) *
<<In women, anything that reduces the acidity (increases the pH) of the vagina increases the likelihood of infection. Acidity may be reduced by hormonal changes shortly before and during menstrual periods or during pregnancy. Frequent douching, use of spermicides, and semen can also reduce acidity.

Many bacteria normally reside in the vagina. One type, called lactobacilli, normally maintains the acidity of the vagina. By doing so, lactobacilli help keep the lining of the vagina healthy and prevent the growth of bacteria or yeasts that cause infections.>>

I don't think that disproves what I've said. I understand that it's the good bacteria that maintains the acidity of the vagina. I just think that the treatment should focus on increasing the good bacteria, rather than trying to manually acidify the vagina. It's definitely not a solution by itself.

QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 12 2008, 12:34 PM) *
Also, from "The V Book" by Dr. Elizabeth Stewart, director of the Stewart-Forbes Vulvovaginal Specialty Service at Harvard Vanguard Medical Associates:

<<"BV represents an imbalance of the bacteria that live in the vagina. The imbalance occurs because the vagina becomes less acidic, and without the acid it's like party time for the resident bacteria -- they have an orgy and overrun the place."

As you know, I cite The V Book a lot myself, and consider it to be a very reputable source. The vagina becomes less acidic - and the bad bacteria takes over - because the good bacteria goes down in number. This is information I got from The V Book itself. Do you disagree with that?

I don't believe that it says in the book anywhere that acid alone will cure/prevent BV. If that was the case, we should all be able to make BV go away by squirting vinegar up there every day.

QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 12 2008, 12:34 PM) *
I am just so glad I found --and am maintaining for over 18 months now--my vaginal health again via boric acid (among other things as mentioned previously) and SYLK.

But your problem wasn't BV. As you said yourself, it was a persistent yeast infection (which boric acid *is* a known cure for).

Some ladies in here have found boric acid to relieve their BV symptoms, but no one so far has found it to be a cure. I've done research on boric acid and BV, and have yet to find anything that supports its use for BV.

I agree that if anyone needs a lubricant, using one with the right pH is probably a better idea than using one that isn't. But I don't agree that SYLK, used like a treatment product as you suggest, can prevent BV. There is just no support for it. Can you provide any beyond anecdotal evidence?


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sciongal
post Apr 12 2008, 02:37 PM
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no offense, but I thought this was a forum for EVERYONE to discuss what does and does not work for them ...individually.... as different as all of our bodies are, there may or may not be methods that work well for each of us. I have read Maggie's postings and she seems excited and happy about what is working for her at this time... this is a tough condition to deal with, why can't we support each other instead of telling people basically, no, what you are doing does not work. Not trying to start a war here, honestly.
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mfc10
post Apr 12 2008, 01:17 PM
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[quote name='lori' date='Apr 12 2008, 01:14 PM' post='194998']
Maggie,

Sorry to put you on the spot, but I want to add a note to what I think is a misconception.

I don't think simply putting acidic solutions in the vagina does anything to "prevent" BV. Since the issue is a bacterial imbalance, I think the high-pH of the discharge is just a symptom. [quote]

Hi, Lori: I just go by what I read, by what my gynecologist told me, and by my education as a chemistry prof. For example, from the Merck Manual Web site, I submit the following:

<<In women, anything that reduces the acidity (increases the pH) of the vagina increases the likelihood of infection. Acidity may be reduced by hormonal changes shortly before and during menstrual periods or during pregnancy. Frequent douching, use of spermicides, and semen can also reduce acidity.

Many bacteria normally reside in the vagina. One type, called lactobacilli, normally maintains the acidity of the vagina. By doing so, lactobacilli help keep the lining of the vagina healthy and prevent the growth of bacteria or yeasts that cause infections.>>

Also, from "The V Book" by Dr. Elizabeth Stewart, director of the Stewart-Forbes Vulvovaginal Specialty Service at Harvard Vanguard Medical Associates:

<<"BV represents an imbalance of the bacteria that live in the vagina. The imbalance occurs because the vagina becomes less acidic, and without the acid it's like party time for the resident bacteria -- they have an orgy and overrun the place."

I am just so glad I found --and am maintaining for over 18 months now--my vaginal health again via boric acid (among other things as mentioned previously) and SYLK.

Respectfully submitted.
Maggie
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lori
post Apr 12 2008, 11:57 AM
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QUOTE(mfc10 @ Apr 11 2008, 09:04 PM) *
That seems most soothing and, at the same time, the pH is acidic enough to help prevent BV or most yeast infections.

Maggie,

Sorry to put you on the spot, but I want to add a note to what I think is a misconception.

I don't think simply putting acidic solutions in the vagina does anything to "prevent" BV. Since the issue is a bacterial imbalance, I think the high-pH of the discharge is just a symptom. I also don't believe that normal high-pH events (such as unprotected sex or getting your period) triggers BV, they simply trigger symptoms.

So I think simply working on acidifying the vagina is not the correct approach. I think this is why a product like RepHresh or boric acid doesn't work - for either treatment or prevention. At best, using Sylk probably doesn't hurt. But I think it's misleading to say that it prevents BV.

QUOTE(CanCan @ Apr 9 2008, 04:54 PM) *
Yes, I'm sure many BV cases are linked to imbalanced hormones.

I think this is another misconception. Vaginitis caused by hormonal imbalance is a completely different issue, and the treatment for it is different as well. We shouldn't conflate these categories.

And lastly, to the pregnant lady who thought pregnancy would clear up the BV because it cleared up her HPV in the past? Sorry to be be all gloom-and-doom, but there's all sorts of things in the news about how BV may cause pregnancy complications, including pre-term birth. On the bright side, not everyone is so sure about that, but either way, it's good to be cautious. I don't think this is a cause for alarm, but just make sure that your doctor is on board, and knows exactly what's going on.


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