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> Porn And Boys, Distressed about my boyfriend and in need of some advice.
pixiedust
post Jul 24 2006, 12:18 PM
Post #41


Tink's Red headed Step Sis
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Posts: 1,810
From: oklahoma


Good points greenbean! I have a hard time believeing any Bustie would be involved in the hardcore sort of stuff we started out discussing. And I believe stripping to be vastly different from porn. I think it can be equally degrading towards women, but I also know most strippers don't get totally nude and they don't have sex with their patrons and they usually don't allow touching. I also almost think it's healthier to watch to..At least it is an interaction..eye contacts, words, ect.


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~May the Fleas of one thousand camels infest the crotch of any person who messes up your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch!~
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greenbean
post Jul 24 2006, 12:01 PM
Post #42


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 954


I'm interested zahia, in the porn you watched with your husband. I've watched plenty of porn with partners and have been to many strip clubs (I even went by myself to clubs back in my art school days, to sketch the dancers) but again, hardcore male dom is a whole other thing. Did you watch that type of stuff with him? What did you learn? I'm curious because that is the type of porn that both you and missjuliet claim that your SOs were into, and that to me is what would make the difference. I'm just curious about it, because it does seem unexceptable to me. I'm not trying to insult any sex workers here, but if you do participate in the hardcore stuff (and I mean hardcore like rape senarios, girls being hit, girls be defacated with urine and feces), how do you feel about it?


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I thank God I was raised Catholic, so sex will always be dirty.--John Waters
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zahia1996
post Jul 24 2006, 11:19 AM
Post #43


BUSTie
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Posts: 38
From: dirty south


I really don't think anyone here was trying to step on anyone's toes, or make them feel invalidated, no matter which side of the fence they are on. Its just a highly sensitive topic. I went through a long period, where because of my personal experiences with boyfriends, and then my husband's use of porn, I was really hostile and judgemental about the sex industry. So it may seem like a strange step to take, but I decided to learn as much as I could about it. There are a lot of interesting, well-written books out there about the business aspect of the industry, personal memoirs of people who have worked in it, studies about its effects on the brain, and the way it is constanly changing. Personally, i found it all very interesting and eye-opening. The more familiar I became with it, and the more I learned, the more my anger dissapated. Also, (and obvioiusly isn't the case for everyone) I watched some of the porn my husband had for myself. I visited several different strip clubs in the area and actually talked with some of the girls working there. Contrary to what I had imagined it to be, most of these girls were really normal looking. (He's not into skinny girl, fake boobs). Without their hair and makeup done, they seemed like any other girl you could be standing in line behind at Target. Learning about it helped me over come my feeling of being threatened. For me personally, it really opened the door to being able to have rational, productive talks with my husband about it, and went a long way in putting us back on the road to patching things up.
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pixiedust
post Jul 24 2006, 10:39 AM
Post #44


Tink's Red headed Step Sis
***
Posts: 1,810
From: oklahoma


Erin, I'm sorry you feel attacked. That's not the way it was meant...just like I'm sure you girls didn't mean to make us feel like we don't have a right to be hurt by porn or express frustartions with the sex industry at large just because some of you particpate in it.


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~May the Fleas of one thousand camels infest the crotch of any person who messes up your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch!~
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erinjane
post Jul 24 2006, 10:25 AM
Post #45


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 1,301
From: Winnipeg


*hijack*
I had planned to stay out of this, but since it came up again...I don't think any of us are trying to play the devil's advocate or make sure that everyone is totally PC, but I think many of us think of bust as a somewhat safe space to be able to come for support, and I think we just feel that we shouldn't have to watch ourselves/friends/loved ones be insulted and stereotyped, no matter the subject of the thread. I find that extremely insensitive and unsupportive. I know you said that there had been discussion about republican, etc issues, and I'm of the belief that if they bothered you you should have spoken up in the same way and asked people to be a little more conscious of the varying degrees of people. Although I'm Canadian and have not participated in those discussions, so that's as far as my personal opinion on the matter goes.
No one is trying to have a debate, innitially I was just trying to get people to be careful with their language for women who choose all sorts of different situations in their lives. If we wanted to pick up a debate someone probably would have already suggested we move over to the Suicide Girls thread. I've been using this board for over a year now and this is the first thread where I've felt like I'm being attacked. It sure as hell doesn't feel like any kind of supportive 'safe space'.
*/hijack*

Misjuiliet, I hope things work out with your boy. It sounds like he really wants to try and is willing to get help he needs. smile.gif I hope these hijacks didnt turn you off the thread when you need to use it.


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I Could Tell You Stories That Would Make Your Ears Curl
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greenbean
post Jul 24 2006, 10:23 AM
Post #46


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 954


Back to the issue, I think what KIND of porn the boy is watching does make a difference. I had a boyfriend who loved pin-up girls and retro-style strip joints like old fashioned peep shows. He also liked Dita von Teese porn and the like. I had no problem with it, because I felt like my boyfriend loved women, and he thought of sex as fun and happy, and the adult entertainment he enjoyed had an art to it. Thats not to say if I had caught him watching something more hardore I would flip out, I wouldnt have, but if he were the type that constantly watched hardcore male dom and stuff that looked degrading towards women, I personally would be hurt.
And that doesnt just go for porn,..once I found out someone I was dating liked to play that Grand Theft Auto game, and it really disturbed me. I knew he was an adult and it was 'just a game', but, for me, it is a game that sends a negative message about both men and women. I didnt wanna be a mom and tell him he couldnt play, but it did turn me off greatly, and it possibly contributed to our break-up.


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I thank God I was raised Catholic, so sex will always be dirty.--John Waters
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pixiedust
post Jul 24 2006, 09:46 AM
Post #47


Tink's Red headed Step Sis
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Posts: 1,810
From: oklahoma


Girlwithasecret, I know what I, and I think others mean is that people choose to be in that profession and that is thier choice and their right, but to come in here and derail a thread about someone who has been hurt by the sex industry just because it is going to step on some peoples toes is extreamly insensitive and unsupportive! There will always be people on both sides of the issue, and it is just very frutrating that certain people seem to have penchant for going into emotionally sensitive threads and playing devil's advocate just to be politically correct! And this goes back longer than you have been around here. there is a time and place for debate, argument and persuassion...and a time to put your own personal views on the backburner and be supportive of people who have been hurt and are going through difficult decisions. If the ladies of the sex industry are as well adjusted as everyone suggests, then they should not be offended by what has gone on in this thread.


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~May the Fleas of one thousand camels infest the crotch of any person who messes up your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch!~
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girlwithasecret
post Jul 24 2006, 09:30 AM
Post #48


BUSTie
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Posts: 10
From: canada


knorl05 - Just curious, why so much distaste for those women who work in sex industry? Did you work in it or lose someone close because of that profession? I do agree that it changes you; to what degree? I guess it depends on the person and their experience. I'll admit after spending various points over the span of five to six years working as a stripper, escort, web porn girl, model, etc. not alot fazes me. Some things most definitely offend me (and always have) they probably would alot of people; other issues I just accept and deal with different now. I don't cheat or accept it, am far from being drug addled and am not emotionally dead and lots of the girls I have worked with are just as normal as the rest of us.

jsmith - nothing is ignorant to ask, knowledge and understanding is power! Solicitation by definition ("to seek to obtain by peruasion") is illegal. To pay someone for an "act" (be it porn or a guy paying for a "massage") is not illegal, it just sounds dirty!

I'm not trying to change anyones opinion of porn or whatever else. I was merely defending those of us who have worked in it and aren't part of the stereotype. It's horroble to see women forced into it, to see 18 year old girls shaking their asses because they think someone will like them more if they do and have unrealistic hopes of big money and an undeveloped brain. I find it just as sad to see underage girls trotting around all summer half naked with their parents ok.

Miss Juliet - I'm sorry that this thread has veared away from what it was a page or two ago! I sincerly hope you and anyone else in your situation gets the answers and help they deserve and need. Ladies we should perhaps take our debate to a new thread or let it rest with both parties agreeing to disagree.

((busties))
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jsmith
post Jul 23 2006, 10:50 PM
Post #49


It's Calamity Jenn
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Posts: 643
From: Lone Star State


This may sound totally ignorant, and may derail the thread (although discussion here reminded me of this little *problem*), but I've got to put it out there (want to know what y'all think).
Okay: prostitution is illegal, yes? Prostitution is accepting money to have sex. Porn actors/actresses are being paid to have sex. Do y'all see where I'm going? Why is it legal?
Having put that wierd question out there, I'd like to say that I think mainstream pornography is deplorable, and I make no apologies for my views, nor should anyone else. I can't rightly say why I feel this way, I just always have. I remember being an itty bitty little girl, and seeing ads for playboy/900 numbers/etc. on television after 10pm, and getting so piiiiissed because women were being "picked on" (I was a child, and that was the only way I could describe how it looked to me). There is a world of difference between breaking free from sexual repression and empowering oneself, and converting oneself into a distorted image of a person to adhere to some sick standard (and make money off of it).


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Shake off all the fears of servile prejudices, under which weak minds are serviley crouched. Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call on her tribunal for every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God, because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason than that of blind faith. Thomas Jefferson
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knorl05
post Jul 23 2006, 08:35 PM
Post #50


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 819
From: detroit rock city


pixiedust: so glad to hear you're doing better, and that you seem to embrace the lessons being presented to you. that's great. i'm also happy to hear you've found a good man who compliments you and empowers you in the relationship. you're very fortunate. smile.gif best to you and your continued success in every aspect of your life.

*i'd really like to clarify my distaste to porn. my opinion is such that porn is depressing. the industry is ugly and it is a gateway to a lot of really negative choices in life. from what i have seen, it sucks the realness out of people. it turns them into something they are not, or at least it changes them, and more often than not, for the worse. the industry is superficial. it is fake. the competition in this industry is easy, as though all you've got to do to be successful is conform to their idea of beauty. my heart goes out to the women who put themselves in these situations because i have seen that they start in the industry before they even really know who they are as a person. and once they're in, many times they become just another member of that lifestyle. they are an extension of everything that goes along with the industry whether or not they engage in it to any extreme degree. but we all make our choices in life, whatever. it does not make them any less than anyone else because of the choices they have made. i just see that the potential is higher that they will end up with the same tragic story... either emotionally numb or dead (literally or figuratively).


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We adore chaos because we love to produce order.
- M.C. Escher
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girlwithasecret
post Jul 23 2006, 05:25 PM
Post #51


BUSTie
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Posts: 10
From: canada


TONIN and Pixiedust and whoever else who generalizes-
Your assumtions about porn and those who work/worked in the sex industry are unfair! Not to mention stereotyping women in a very broad spectrum billion dollar industry. There are intelligent, educated, safe and sexually healthy women who chose to work in the sex industry for a multitude of reasons. Sometimes they are in the same film as the desperate chick and forced to work chick. A hardcore BDSM guy, your neighborhood stripper and the cute guy in his 30's buying Hustler all like "adult entertainment"... but they aren't that 2-5% who turn it into an obsession or addiction and make those around them miserable.

Do we blame bartenders and staff at liquor stores for people's alcoholism? What about the pharmacists at drugstores, are they responsible for people's painkiller addictions? I know that sounded harsh but really?! Porn, like a driver's license, the ability to purchase booze, have a credit card (etc etc) are intended to be used by adults...That is a person who can use logic and exacute caution and restraint in serious situations... People with an addiction (to whatever it may be, shopaholic? porn monster?) have a problem, one that will absolutely affect a relationship. In some cases couples work through the problem and in other cases it's a deal breaker.

Reading this thread makes my heart go out to any woman who loses her self esteem and feels a loss of control in any way(relationship or physically) no one should feel that way. People are in a relationship because they love one another seeing them in a different light and finding out their SO's "darker secret" can cause damage beyond repair.
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zahia1996
post Jul 23 2006, 12:10 AM
Post #52


BUSTie
**
Posts: 38
From: dirty south


Haha girlbomb--- you bring up a good point. I used to wonder if it was ok for me to tell my husband that I was not ok with his porn habit, because I, like most people out there, would sometimes fantasize about other people. But, I think that both can be normal and healthy...its just a matter of how far you take it. If your fantasies consume you to the point that it affects your relationship with your SO, that is just as damaging as using porn to that degree. It doesn't matter if its in your head, or right in front of you on a screen. If the images you use to maintain a healthy sexual attitude in YOURSELF begin to have a negative effect on the person you care about, it may be time to re-examine things. And really, that goes for any habit, whether its sexual or not. I know plenty of women who have lost their S.O to video games and ESPN. If you think its degrading and saddening to lose your guy to a porn site, well shit, its just as bad to lose him to a fantasy world of elves and magicians. It never feels good to be passed up for a world that doesn't exist. Whether its a world of big boobs, or little guys casting spells. Bottom line, respect your mate, and respect yourself enough to ask the same in return.
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girlbomb
post Jul 22 2006, 10:49 AM
Post #53


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 181


Hey, I hope people know that I am the last person to defend porn, especially the really gross shit that's so upsettingly prevalent, but I do want to stand up for people's right to participate in it and use it, if they choose to do so freely in a way that doesn't hurt others. Same for BSDM. I used to think that all people into sexual power play were emotionally damaged; I also thought that all religious people were stupid. But they don't seem to be any more or less stupid or damaged than the rest of the people I know.

This is coming from someone who had to end a relationship over an addiction to really sadistic porn, by the way. What he liked to watch (instead of have sex) was so yucky to me that I didn't even want to look at him any more, much less fuck him. Whereas I've had other relationships where I thought "oh, this guy's porn is so corny and predictable," but I've been able to live with it, because it didn't offend my values quite so much, and our sex life (and romantic life) were still strong. However, it was a don't-ask-don't-tell policy -- you don't let me see those links in the browser history, and I won't tell you what I was thinking about doing with the guy from the IT department.
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TONIN
post Jul 22 2006, 12:34 AM
Post #54


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QUOTE(pixiedust @ Jul 21 2006, 08:47 PM) *

I'm well adjusted now. It took two really great men to get me to this place though. The first one laid the ground work and taught me to trust the opposit sex again, and being older...taught me a lot of things I didn't know. He was very anti porn and anti masterbation because he was Catholic. But he believed that if your partner is satisfying you, you shouldn't need porn or self love. I don't know that I would go to quite that extream...but his extream views helped balance me back from the other end of the spectrum....and then Mr. Pixie came along and helped take my new found self esteem out of the bedroom and into real life.

I think one of the saddest things about people in the sex industry is that they take something so fun, relaxing, and intimate...and they make it their JOB. You have to do it no matter how you feel, even if you aren't totally in the mood, even if you aren't attracted to the guy. And don't tell me that doesn't spill over and affect thier "normal" sex life!



I agree. my b/f's friend was dateing a girl that did porn (im extreamly against it) and he said that most of the time he reallly couldnt get into sex with her he kept thinking about her and the 100+ guys shes screwed. anyway he got rid of her, thankfully, he was way too good for her.

my b/f and i had a lot of problems, well i did when we first started living together. i found that he was looking at porn eventhough he told me he wasnt, anyway this whole thing went on and off for about 2 years and finally the past 6 months or so hes been very good, i explained that its like hes cheating on me. its one thing if i were ok with it but im not. anyway.. i put my foot down and told him no matter how deeply in love i am with him i dont trust him verymuch and if he does it agian im packing his bags! there isnt any reason for us to NOT be able to express our feelings about porn bad or good to our partner and have them understand. he did it cus it was a bad habbit ever since like 13 so.... its understandable everyone picks thier noses in public when they are a kid but at some point when you are an adult its time to drop those bad habbits. all is well now because we talked, understood, and have ALOT more sex now cus i can trust him more and he saves if for me rather than those who dont deserve his attention wink.gif
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pixiedust
post Jul 21 2006, 07:30 PM
Post #55


Tink's Red headed Step Sis
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Posts: 1,810
From: oklahoma


I'm well adjusted now. It took two really great men to get me to this place though. The first one laid the ground work and taught me to trust the opposit sex again, and being older...taught me a lot of things I didn't know. He was very anti porn and anti masterbation because he was Catholic. But he believed that if your partner is satisfying you, you shouldn't need porn or self love. I don't know that I would go to quite that extream...but his extream views helped balance me back from the other end of the spectrum....and then Mr. Pixie came along and helped take my new found self esteem out of the bedroom and into real life.

I think one of the saddest things about people in the sex industry is that they take something so fun, relaxing, and intimate...and they make it their JOB. You have to do it no matter how you feel, even if you aren't totally in the mood, even if you aren't attracted to the guy. And don't tell me that doesn't spill over and affect thier "normal" sex life!


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~May the Fleas of one thousand camels infest the crotch of any person who messes up your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch!~
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knorl05
post Jul 21 2006, 03:54 PM
Post #56


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 819
From: detroit rock city


pixie, i think those are great points you've made regarding the desensitization to extreme porn, and the subsequent interpretation and imposition of that lifestyle. you're right, i think it is dangerous when it's put into the "wrong" hands.. it can be used as a weapon against [women]. i'm sorry you were on the receiving end of sexual abuse, my heart goes out to you. i dont know how it affected your self esteem .. but i would hope you know that is was just HIM. i hope you were able to isolate the situation and separate yourself from the experience. it's an awful thing for any woman to go through, one that i think most women fear could happen to them. you seem like a very intelligent well adjusted woman, i would imagine the experience only made you stronger and more aware.

you are right that the people who choose the sex industry know what they're getting themselves into. really it saddens me. that's why i think the best approach is to educate women before they get to that point. it's not fun and it's not glamorous. it turns women into puppets and men into slobbering fools.


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We adore chaos because we love to produce order.
- M.C. Escher
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greenbean
post Jul 21 2006, 12:15 PM
Post #57


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 954


"Nobody rents a porno by themselves to experience a deep and profound connection to another human being."
Sorry to de-rail but that just reminded me of that scene in Tromeo and Juliet where Tromeo is mastrbating to 'bride porn', and blurting out "I love you!" when he cums, because hes such a romantic. heh, classic.

On a darker note, I'm fine with male dom porn if it consists of simply tying a girl up and spanking her,...but a friend from work said he came across a German male dom porn where the dude was pissing in a girls mouth and she started crying. He said he wasnt sure if it was real or acting but either way it was profoundly disturbing.
I certainly would have a problem if my SO was into that stuff.


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I thank God I was raised Catholic, so sex will always be dirty.--John Waters
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pixiedust
post Jul 21 2006, 07:52 AM
Post #58


Tink's Red headed Step Sis
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Posts: 1,810
From: oklahoma


I think the big difference is in watching Vs. participating in it. People watching are getting off on the sight of someone being punished sexually. They are not engaging in an intimate, trusting act with someone else. They begin to enjoy the perceived degradation and humiliation. And they become numb to it. They start thinking it's ok. And they bring it home to thier significant others who do not understand and have not consented to be involved in it. In a way it almost becomes a rape of power.

I forced to participate in something one time...and it was the worst thing that ever happened to me and it totally changed the dynamic of sex with my ex forever. And became increasingly controling after that.

If people want to be porn stars, strippers, prostitues, doms or subs, that is their right, and I would never tell them they can't be that. But I do not choose to be one and I do not want to be treated like one! They know when they enter this industry what kind of social obstacles and disapproval they are going to meet with. And they do it anyway, so one would assume that they have accepted it. But someone doesn't choose to have a mate with a sexual addiction. So my sympathies are with the unintentionally hurt, and I don't really care who's toes that steps on.


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~May the Fleas of one thousand camels infest the crotch of any person who messes up your day, and may their arms be too short to scratch!~
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knorl05
post Jul 20 2006, 08:20 PM
Post #59


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 819
From: detroit rock city


clover: exactly. thank you for pointing that out. wink.gif

anonymous: i appreciate your unique perspective. i can see how there is a very deep dynamic in the BDSM scene that centers around trust and vulnerability... not necessarily a struggle of power, but a giving up of power and being open to another human being on a very extreme level. however, dont you think it's entirely possible that many of the people engaging in these activities are in a sense abusing and punishing themselves and others? i mean you can look at it from a standpoint that others "dont get it" because they havent done it... but perhaps many people simply dont need it. i see BDSM as a deep-rooted psychological longing to obtain intimacy and more substantial connections with others that they feel they lack in their "real" lives. i could be wrong, maybe i dont get it. but to me i just find it hard to believe that people choosing to put themselves in these types positions dont have some sort of emotional burden they are carrying around. perhaps i'm looking too deeply into it.

seems we've strayed off topic to some degree. i just hope missjuliet, that you make the best decision for yourself based on what you truly want and what you feel is right for your situation.


--------------------
We adore chaos because we love to produce order.
- M.C. Escher
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cloverbee
post Jul 20 2006, 08:15 PM
Post #60


Hardcore BUSTie
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Posts: 691
From: Northwest


anonymousfeminist, thanks for your input. I agree with you that people engage in those behaviors because they want to. what I am specifically referring to (I cannot speak for the others) are the people who watch these acts and take a different message home. It's one thing to engage in it and therefore I assume those who do understand it as you do. It is altogether another issue to be an ignorant bystander. Messages get mixed and in the end you have someone who was not engaging in the act and may think that the person who is DOM has all of the control and then they make assumptions from there and so forth. I do get your point that it can be a misunderstood art and I respect where you are coming from. I think that my concern is with the general public's ignorance about it. maybe that is what you were saying also. sorry.
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